too mean I'm not going to do that again he doesn't want to get back in the ring with vice president kamla Harris that's the truth so as you said Donald Trump officially now is backing out of a second debate with the vice president despite previously claiming he would participate in one more debate with Harris the former president said yesterday during that rally in Arizona that because he quote one on Tuesday night he doesn't need another one but when a prize fighter loses a fight you've seen a lot of fights right the first words out of that Fighter's mouth is I want to rematch I want a rematch and that's what she said I want a rematch poll slly show that I won the debate against comrade Camala Harris she went over to ABC which in my opinion has taken a big hit because these two people were bad news they kept screaming at me I said why are you screaming I'm saying to myself I'm looking I always liked him I'm not going to watch him anymore I'm not going to watch him because he's not legit what he did I'm not going to watch [Applause] him and his hair is not as good as it used to be you know so because we've done two debates and because they were successful there will be no third debate [Music] it's too late anyway the voting's already begun you got to go out and vote we got to vote so North Carolina two nights ago Donald Trump and I had our debate you watched it did you watch it and look I believe we owe it to have another debate right we owe it to the voters because here's the thing in this election what's at stake could not be more [Music] important that that's come Harris Willie on the road in front of yet another massive crowd despite what Donald Trump says and here's the problem with everything Donald Donal Trump said in those sound bites um how many people want watch the debate I think it was a prettyy big number like 70 million or something across multiple networks and so we don't have to actually say oh he's lying let's fact check that everyone saw it everyone saw it everyone knows that he's lying yeah and he like that boxing metaphor about a rematch somehow framing that as as how he won he doesn't need another one I think the more apt boxing metaphor is that he just got his butt kicked in the third or fourth round and he's deciding not to come back out for the next round where KLA Harris is standing in the middle of the Ring said let's do it again he wants none of it let's continue the conversation with the co-host of msnbc's the weekend former chairman of the Republican National Committee Michael steel Pulitzer priz winning colonist and Associate editor of the Washington Post Eugene Robinson and managing editor at the bullwark Sam Stein guys good morning great to have you all with us Michael I'll start with you uh your take as someone who has worked in politics for all of his adult life about what it means when someone suddenly declares they don't want another debate yeah yeah when when you when you come out and try to frame this the way Donald Trump is framing it after we saw what we saw right it's not like this was one of those things that you you only heard on radio or you just didn't tune in and missed it and no a lot of people saw this um we know he's lying we know he got he not just got stung he got knocked down and he got knocked down in such a way that he could not get up so basically what you have is the to keep this boxing metaphor going the guy on the mat looking up with one hand up in the air trying to get up off the floor saying I don't want anymore no Moss um and and and it's it's very clear why because he recognized from the very beginning of that debate and for me Willie it was the moment she walked over and shook his hand she threw him off his game in that moment because he had no intentions of shaking her hand he was not going to be the gentleman to go to the center of the ring if you will and shake your opponent's hand and to begin the conversation but she she did in one better went over to him and introduced herself kamla Harris and from that moment he was not the same she started off a little rocky but she found her footing very quickly on issue after issue and the only thing he was reduced to was talking about ducks and cats and whining about the fact that you know uh she was lying about his crowd size if that's the that is the basically the essence of that debate for Donald Trump and so yeah he's on the mat looking up from the floor saying I don't want no more God bless you Donald cuz when you get up she going to hit you again and she's ready and I think the country's ready for him for her to continue to do that because I think I heard M say at some point earlier this week we're just exhausted and I think we're done with all of this and she has become as Donald Trump was the avatar for grievance and regression and looking backwards she's now the avatar for looking forward and hope and people see that there is something ahead that they can move towards as opposed to staying stuck where we are kudos to you Michael steel for taking our extended boxing metaphor to the Roberto Duran Sugar Ray Leonard fight with no moss in 1980 very nicely done there um Eugene Robinson it is we saw there just again the stark contrast we saw Donald Trump at his rally in Arizona talking about dogs and cats and geese and David M's hair and cut to two rockus crowded events contrary to what Donald Trump keeps saying for KLA Harris in the state of North Carolina again just trust your eyes is there a big crowd there are they they enthusiastic are they excited yes the answer is and how gleeful the vice president was when talking about the debate the smile on her face because she too knows how it went in that room in Philadelphia on Tuesday night yeah she had two rallies in North Carolina yesterday yesterday one was like 7,500 people the other was 17,500 people or something like that it was they were huge uh and they were rockus they were enthusiastic they they were full of joy they were uh exactly what Trump and his Camp most fear uh but this this debate was um we'll see if it was uh a real turning point in this election but it was certainly a moment uh a moment that can only be good for Don Harris and a moment that can only be bad for Donald Trump and I imagine that his staff when he he said okay maybe we don't do another debate I imagine they encouraged him okay okay send that out say that today because and put it you know let's eliminate the possibility of another debate because um how could they stand another one of those another Beatdown like that I just don't uh I I don't see it you know not overtly trying to be mocking because these are really serious times um nobody made that more clear than kamla Harris did on the debate stage but one final note about the debate and I it really was no joke here it was The Wizard of Oz uh finally at the end um when the curtain is pulled back his act was dismantled by her face alone and also everything that she said in front of so many people it's going to be very hard for the former president to convince anybody except for diard Maga who don't at the types of people who will follow him to anywhere uh it's could be very hard for him to convince most Americans that he had a modum of sense and had any hits during that debate he was the loser um and for the first time everyone everyone at the same time saw it um The Wizard of Oz so let's talk more uh about the vice president rallies uh in North Carolina yesterday as we mentioned she received a rockus reception huge crowd last night inside the Greensboro Coliseum Complex that was the Roar from 177,000 people when she took the age the vice president recapped the debate and pushed one of her core messages of her campaign on Tuesday night I talked about issues that I know matter to the families Across America like bringing down the cost of living investing in America's small businesses protecting reproductive freedom and keeping our nation safe and secure but that's not what we heard from Donald Trump instead you know and I called it at the beginning of the debate it was the same old show same old tired Playbook we've heard for years with no plan for how he would address the needs of the American people well folks look it's time to turn the page prior to Greensboro the vice president spoke to 7,500 voters at an event in Charlotte where people began gathering in line several hours before the star time once the rally kicked off Harris highlighted the flood of Republican endorsements that she has recently received over 200 people who worked for President George HW Bush President George W bush John McCain and Mitt Romney have endorsed me for president former Vice President Dick Cheney and congresswoman Liz Cheney are supporting me as well because as they said we have a duty as Citizens to put country above partisanship and defend our constitution I'd say on that point I mean it's overwhelming uh samstein her crowds which is something Trump talked about he got so I mean he fell for it so it was painful to watch how quickly he fell for kamla Harris kind of making fun of his rallies in a very real and realistic way that he talks about Hannibal Lecter and makes up crap and just throws it out there and really speaks about nothing but most importantly does not talk about you the American people and what he could do for the the American people but even more so he was very rattled about crowdai saying that nobody comes to her rallies and so again if anyone wants to check I mean there 17 thou people at one rally alone yesterday and they were going wild but to a point she was making about the 200 Republic an who are endorsing her I do think there's a decision to be made uh by former President George W bush and others that are very high level Republicans and if they truly believe that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy but if they also truly believe that there is a Republican party to be saved that there is a Republican party to be rebuilt that there is a Republican party that should be a part of this democracy that we live in in isn't the only way to go at this point is to endorse kamla Harris and let the Republican party rebuil I mean very very good questions uh first on the rally size you know Trump will probably respond uh by alleging that this is all AI generated right and that this can't possibly be real uh secondarily uh on on the issue of Republicans supporting Harris first it was a little bit disorienting I got to be