Certified Senior Advisor William Cohen

asteroid of fear welcome to another episode of the men of the house podcast and on today's episode I have William or Bill Cohen and we are gonna talk about health caregiving and I've talked about this in a couple other episodes but we're also definitely going to talk about how males stepping into a caregiving role um you know the world's evolving and what we do and how we do it is evolving and as kind of a caregiver myself to my dad and to my grandparents in the past you know this one this topic is uh it's very near and dear to me um because we're all going to experience it at some point where we probably have to care give for a grandparent a parent possibly a sibling and so yeah I want to talk about that get the ins and outs and what we can do to make it better but also just to prepare ourselves because um we're all subject to the same end nobody's getting out alive and we're all gonna face it at some point so how are you doing today Bill doing great honored to be here thanks for uh inviting me well thank you for coming and um yeah I'm definitely interested in getting this perspective um especially like we had talked about before getting kind of a male perspective because we are seeing more fluidity in I would say traditional gender and household roles you know I think you know I've interviewed a couple of men with about men's groups and and even women but you know one thing is definitely for sure and that is what is expected of men has changed and evolved over the years and it's not just that we go to work earn the paycheck and come home and do the normal kind of masculine father things but really there's this kind of forward push into men being a little more involved emotionally and kind of in that motherly sense and being a part of and talking about feelings and whatnot and um just how we contribute to our family the well-being and starting to talk about feelings as opposed to stuffing these things down and I think kind of um men stepping into more caregiving roles with family especially if it's a mother um maybe as such in your case um it's definitely a different Dynamic and I can speak to that as an only child I'm an only son so you know at some point I will have to help care for my mother I'm sure um but I also I'm fortunate enough to have my wife with me but uh yeah so it's an interesting spin and thought process on how we're going to go about that so um you may you may have already figured this out do you know the one advantage to being an only child when you're in a caregiving role you don't have to drown out the noise of everyone else's opinions exactly Bingo you make the decisions and who's going to question you right yeah you don't have to fight uh with with siblings about that and I I've kind of seen that happen as you know and I've mentioned another podcast before but you know my wife careg gives and I often help her because she also does kind of her own business and you know she's taken care of some elderly people in which I've helped and some of the reason we do that is because there might be a local sibling and there might be a sibling two hours away but we've you know the sibling two hours away has hired us to step in and help out because the sibling who's actually local doesn't make the time to care for their parent and then when the sibling two hours away passed away and the one sibling took over all of a sudden it was like they put him in a assisted living home we were kind of cut off and we never knew where she went and could never get that information to even visit and then she passed away and we were never able to see her and so yeah it those things definitely happen in that family drama but you know if I could say anything is you know don't don't let that get in the way of what the purpose is this is your family member you're that of care and remember what the goal is at the end of the day is to care for your loved one and ensure that they um get it what it is they need not just physically but also emotionally as they're transitioning through a different stage of life right and that's why I became a trained Elder mediator because as well as doing caregiving support is because s some families can't decide on ordering pizza for dinner let alone who where how to take care of or loved one so I am increasingly finding myself in that role sometimes in conjunction with the caregiving support where I'm playing that neutral third party to help them focus on the person who needs the care it's not about you not about you you have to focus on your loved one with Dementia or whatever the condition is well how did you get into this let's start off let's start off at Ground Zero give us a little bit about your background and just an idea because you kind of gave us a hint as to what you're doing now but what were you doing before kind of what did you dream that you'd be doing before and then I'm sure there was something that happened that propelled you into this world and this is what you now do and yeah give us a little bit about that well first all overview is that if you had asked me 192 years ago what was going to transpire and happen with my mom and I'd be doing what I'm doing today and talking to you I'd say you're crazy you could make up this scenario so working back I was first in the hospitality industry then I was in financial services I worked uh for the state of Oregon completely unrelated job um I'm originally from New England I'm from Hartford went to school in Boston mostly vacation Vermont so I'm a New England but I've been in Oregon for almost 40 years oh wow my mom moved down to uh buuy Mississippi back in the mid-70s and going forward and we had a very close relationship my visit her often I even moved to New Orleans for a while I was in Sarasota for a while so it wasn't too far away but I move away and then in the early to mid 2000s she starts showing some disturbing signs agitation paranoia yes short-term memory loss not taking care of the finances not taking care of the house it became obvious because not only was she a master print maker she was an artist and teacher but uh she was a early adopter of a Mac in the 80s in her 60s most women weren't adopting him a Mac Mac at that time and she was handling all the finances so the drop off and her abilities was becoming Stark however she was taking care of my late stepfather who was on and off hospice and we were wondering oh well maybe you know maybe she just tired stressed getting older whatever right and we were thinking if he moved into a Care Community or passed away would she bounce back we never got that opportunity because what happened this month 19 years ago on the Gulf Coast in New Orleans what was it oh yeah so the house that they they they they had evacuated safely but the house they had lived in for decades was completely Swept Away down to the foundation she fully expected to come back to that house and the trauma seeing it gone exacerbated accelerated whatever was going on with her we later realized it was Alzheimer's but we knew there was some form of mild cognitive how was that being relayed back to you um since you were in a different location she was caring who who were the first people to kind of take notice and alert you that something was a was a little a Miss well it was a little bit of everything my brother was in the area an aunt who lived in Florida would go visit uh step family so my own visits was a little bit of everything uh one example was that we like I said she was do to the finances she'd even do the taxes but for some reason they were just sitting on the dining room table they were not moving no longer could handle them so these were some disturbing signs I even took her to a a geriatric physician got her on one of the medications that really doesn't do much it's not a cure just help slow the progression nenda uh that type of thing we were treating more her agitation her anxiety depression that type of thing so yeah those that's what we did and we were starting to take steps and wondering what are we going to do in fact my mom even said oh we maybe move closer to the to the shore they were about five miles in land right and that never happened because never got a chance to see what would how that would affect things or improve things so what happened with um house gets wiped out and that trauma what happens from there how is the family displaced and what what is the progression of disease and factors start looking like at that point right and I can tell and I'll tell you a quick story right afterwards so they evacuate to wilington North Carolina with step family okay okay and so like I said they were safe bring my stepfather and my mom back together my brother went his own way to Texas with his lady friend and within a couple days after the storm mom is trying to exit seek Escape she's out in the driveway she did not have a good relationship ship with my step brother I'm not going to get into that it's just a fact and fortunately another family member got her on the phone and said Sheila my mom's name if you don't get back in that house you may end up somewhere you do not want to be like institutionalized she got that message she still had enough cognitive ability I'm on I was planning on going very shortly anyway get on the next possible plane she's glad to see me and I have a term as opposed to white lie therapeutic lie call it compassionate deception oh to use I was not doing any harm I wasn't telling her the whole truth I was doing it was in her best interest so I said Mom tomorrow we're going to go see a new doctor oh okay that's a good idea I'm in a new place right what I didn't tell her is we are going to the ER we were going to emergency I that night about 10 hours between being in the are in an adjoining conference room hardest emotional night of my life because my mom I hardly recognized she was very agitated stressed out almost like a caged animal uh the the the her face was almost unrecognizable they get her admitted they get her on medication I get off the elevator the next morning she sees me and says oh there you are there's my savior she wasn't mad at me it was the disease she was scared right know what's happening to her so going forward we got her in uh after she we got out of that house she was in Assisted Living which was with memory care right and that type of thing then she ended up with my aunt down in Delray Beach Florida for a while I'm doing the cross country trips I'm doing handling the caregiving long distance starting to handle the finances the taxes real estate her care everything with support of my family right was collaborative and sequential tag team uh I started attending a support group I started getting counseling I was looking at a Care Community out here in Portland this is all while I'm handling what made you what what gave you the wherewithal to even seek out the support group and resources because I feel like the other caregivers I've interviewed it seems like that almost has to be told to them by whether it's a therap or somebody else because they get so overwhelmed how did you find it what seems to be more proactively and I I I'll mention one thing by the way and I'm also while I'm doing all this I have a full-time job about 35 miles south of where I live and I had a which I did not like it was not fulfilling uh for the compensation of the benefits and I had a micromanager narcissist boss from hell so imagine where my stress level was you're lucky you didn't end up in the Care Facility uh yeah so it was I think I'm pretty sure it was my wife's suggestion hey maybe you should consider looking at a support group and and I contacted the Alzheimer Association and found one there were very few back then not like there's tons available all over virtually and in person but I found one that was during the week in the evening so I could go after work and the interesting thing is I kept I kept going and I I lead that group now 19 years later awesome I've been leading it for 11 years because I saw the benefit people who were either all other caregivers or people who were uh had lost their loved one kept going to help others through the Journey and I the the advice was invaluable the support the guidance people who have been there and uh fortunately I also found a good counselor who was from my background so helped me deal with my family uh I did have some I I could get into some of the legal stuff but I had ants for instance who had a lot of opinions always in Mom's best interest but they also knew my name was on the paper I had the power of attorney so uh the alarm Association also has lots of information resources for the support groups education they have a a 247 helpl line that will always be answered if somebody needs help or just has a question it's a great way to go so I sought out that support and it was I don't know how it could have gotten through it otherwise yeah those were both those were very very important also and we can talk about this more of length is self-care I mean those things were part of the self-care but also getting away from my desk and taking a walk going for a massage massage to me became not a luxury but a necessity yeah how did you well and this is and this is kind of that key part of you know showing how you were a little bit more proactive as to what I'd mentioned before but you know part of these conversations especially for the audience is to put your mind in a space that this self-care is proactive that you're not having to be told to do this or you're not having to think like oh maybe I should do this because you're having to do that chances are you're already behind the curveball yep and self-care is not just it's not selfish it's vital yes because caregivers will burn out they'll get sick or get worse and I don't know if you've ever heard this statistic when it comes to Dementia in particular I don't know if you've ever heard of T of snow your wife probably has but she's a well-known dementia trainer in the Carolinas uh te PA snow great videos on YouTube and and her own website and she cited that uh among two things actually uh one was that when I was starting 20 years ago one out of every five caregivers was a male now it's more like like more like two out of five 40% approximately more and more men step into that role the other thing that I heard was for caregivers dementia dementia care is 70 years or older about 2third pred deceased the person they are caring for I believe not that is not only tragic but it's preventable because if you don't take care of your own health go to see your doctor go get get a break get support that type of thing you are a candidate for Burnout or works yeah it kind of bleeds off into this you know I think of our situation and we're kind of a multigenerational household and um being Latino and the the names and players kind of circulate through the house but you know let's say you had my grandparents who were both in their either late 70s early 80s both with um predisposition or genetic components as it relates to Dementia or Alzheimer's and you see signs in one it stresses out the other one and then this one and this one can slowly and then my wife and I or my mother other people into the household and start kind of caring for both or taking the stress off of one um and then one kind of exits and it it becomes this circle of swapping things but yeah I could I could definitely see you know not just the Dementia or Alzheimer's kind of component the agitation and all that you know people in their 70s and 80s depending you know aren't it's still a physical job and there's still a lot to caring for somebody like that minus adding that and if you're at an age where you're older as well and you have physical problems and stuff or what if one of the spouses usually the woman is smaller lighter and he is bigger and heavier and if he falls can't take care of him can't pick him up can't help him in the shower that's type of thing that's happened mult re right yeah yeah that's scary um what well so you quite finish the story yeah about leading to where I am today is that yeah then in 2008 I brought her out here quick little story too uh my my other Aunt who eventually moved out here to help take care of her from Manhattan in stayed uh she flies out my mother out here she wanted to come out to be with me and she looks at the Care community that I wanted her to be in uh the Assisted Living side looks like a hotel beautiful modern uh still does she walks in said this is nice bill I could live here can I afford it another compassionate deception yes Mom uh I was I knew she was running out of money right probably within the year but for now I was saying yes Mom yeah you can you can live here and you can afford it uh if they let her stay which they did they thought that she would be there less than a year the way she was declining and what they saw and that's exactly what happened uh 10 months later she moves across the street to their uh memory care unit you know secure lockdown because during a Norovirus quarantine she starts wandering she starts doing dangerous behaviors because even though it was in a lot people would demen her this way they may not take that initiative to get out of the room or know where to go but once she got out usually she was fine she was social but when she's confined to her room kind of like what we saw the pandemic she started acting out and doing dangerous things and they said Bill she needs 247 care this was right when she was running out of money and that was another tough period where my family really helped especially my wife and we moved her into the memory care this isn't a building that has since been renovated but it looked like the old nursing homes uh but the care was wonderful and I love to mention that like the head nurse was there over 30 years wow right it gives you that's a good key that if the staff is there a long time says a lot gonna be good care they're treating them well and they they will treat your loved one well so well they enjoy it you don't you don't do something for 30 years there's not something about it nobody's gonna get nobody's gonna get wealthy maybe except the stockholders yeah GNA get wealthy in doing senior care it's a labor of love it's gratifying although it's very challenging so she was in memory care for about four years she passed away at age 83 and this was 11 years ago this past February now I start going forward um I kept going to that support group for a little bit like I said I be became the facilitator a few months later not what I was expecting and I started doing the walkand Alzheimer's and I was doing advocacy at the capital to G get more funds for research what gave you that desire what what what made you say like now I need to keep this going forward I think it's because everything I was doing was well you can regardless of Faith one of the things that binds us all together is The Ten Commandments honor thy mother and thy father I had a close relationship with both my biological father and my stepfather and my mother and when I stepped into that role there was no question and then afterwards I did this all for my m mom I'm I'm going to go forward and do these other things in her honor and memory and I didn't dwell on the loss I had already grieved when she was alive because she was no longer the person she used to be right you know that she's going to pass away you're losing her there's a besides anticipatory grief there's also ambiguous they are still alive but they're not the person they used to be yeah inside yes there's still a person there right yeah so going forward I didn't I I had already grieved fortunately I took a trip to Costa Rica right after she passed away that really helped me a lot that's a beautiful place to be so a few months later or a couple years later I'm approaching retirement with the state thinking I'm just going to do more volunteer work and I came across this concept we can talk about this more detail of a caregiving support consultant so my really really short version of all that is I turned my loss my pain into my passion in my Encore career yeah you know and the reason IID asked that question is because the thing is is with that long you know you had mentioned you had already kind of grieved in process cuz was a long process but I I could imagine that so many people at the end of like what would be considered like a marathon that they're like oh it's over I'm done and I'm gonna move on and walk away recoup all the years I invested elsewhere you know and have that freedom and so to me I I find it I find it fascinating that when most people would say okay I had enough of it and go a different direction and kind of pour into themselves um that you actually reversed that and said no I'm going to continue to pour into others and everybody Grieves in a different way anyway yeah some some never can get over the pain obviously it depends upon the circumstances depends upon the relationship uh but like I said I had a close relationship with my mother it was it was hard it was gut-wrenching to watch all that it was emotional but it I felt it was very gratifying to take care of her how did the pecking order work in terms of you know me being an only child not having siblings how did how was it decided you were kind of the person she would go to or she would go to Portland versus with some other siblings or you know how did how does that work in the hierarchy of siblingship well this is one of those situations and I see this more and more with a lot of my clients and support groups more and more men stepping into the rule it doesn't always fall upon a female family member and it shouldn't always and I think because of my she brought on my strong nurturing side I I would responsibility was important to me that there's no question that I would take care of my mom I'm not going to get into the details it's better that my brother I have one brother uh did not end up getting power of attorney and taking care of her she probably would have ended up in Medicaid lot sooner you can read between the lines on that so my but again other family members my wife was very supportive she wasn't directly involved with the care in the instances but she helped supported me so I could take care of Mom uh other family members helped in different ways like one cousin after she lost her computer in the storm he set her up with a new little mini MAAC at her care facility and would occasionally service it as needed other people donated money and gift cards and food and clothing and all kinds of things but like I mentioned earlier I had two aunts they were her two sisters were the most involved and they had again a lot of opinions but they always had mom's best interest in her and they knew I I was the final say on the power of attorney knowing that I would also do what what was best for Mom right I didn't have alterior motives unfortunately that does happen sometimes with family members they may be saying oh we shouldn't put her into a care facility spend too much money when they're thinking I want some of the inheritance right we don't want to spend it all because I want some you know they may not say it but that's what their actions tell you right uh or they just uh really don't care they'll be saying things like I'm too far away I'm too busy I can't deal with it it's all all your problem yeah unfortunately that does happen man I did not have to deal with that fortunately I I could see where that would be tough you know especially as an only child I get to make my own decisions for me um and nothing really ever has to be discussed but you know as I'd mentioned before and probably a lot of the listeners know is that my wife is a caretaker for people and you know from the outside we we step in because sometimes there are s there's one local one hours away and for whatever reason the local one can't seem to yeah you know visit or take them to appointments or whatever which is fine I mean that's what we do and that's what we're here for and everybody's situation is different but but but family is can be as you to find it it can help and support can come from Friends neighbors co-workers or ex-coworkers charitable organization your church whatever organization I you mentioned earlier about extended multi-generational family that's how we all used to be yeah we'd either age at home with our families or Last Resort end up in the so-called nursing homes right but there's so many more options nowaday plus now some cultures yes are still multigenerational a lot of Latinos a lot of Asians you see that quite a bit more than other cultures uh but the tendency is to you know they age in place as long as they can at home maybe bring in care or they end up in a Care community and and each situation is a little bit different but at least there are more options than there used to be we know there's the adult care homes which are like living at home in a smaller uh setting little more intimate probably better food too yeah what was the most difficult thing to get a handle on because when when all these things come about you you know and um I've been mostly a guest this week but you know I was on vacation my dad ended up in the ICU with a tube in his throat recently and there was all this um you know we didn't know because it was kind of like it happened unexpectedly and then there's all this stuff of kind of like what you're saying Advanced directives who's responsible of making all these choices and he sens to improve but it definitely because you know this was something that was supposed to be routine and it became un routine very quick and so it spawned up all these feelings um emotions this overwhelm of H Advanced directives um this that the other insurance policies all kinds of stuff like bills banking information if something were to happen um what do I do with his lease his car blah blah blah blah blah what was the most challenging thing when you stepped into this situation because you mentioned a couple of times of she was running out of money there's Insurance you know I come from a medical background so it's um there's Insurance things there's all kinds of mess that has to be dealt with what did you find most challenging how did you deal with it and how do you recommend people get ahead of this don't try to do it all at once don't try to do it all by yourself okay and basically and since you you alluded to certain Fields uh is you basically have to go into triage mode I wish I had learned that sooner that like the battlefield or in the ER this is the most important thing and to take care of that this will be next everything else will have to wait because I was handling just about everything I probably should have gotten more help or asked for more help but didn't quite know how to do that I was thinking like and this goes back to the male thing that we look at it like a project a job a series of tasks I can handle this I can do this I don't need any help which is why most men don't go to support groups in the past anyway or go for counseling looking for support because they see that as a sign of weakness whereas it is a sign of strength to say I need some help here how can you help me even if it's a little bit and it might be and I say this to caregivers a lot think about all the different jobs that you have to do as a caregiver you're the cook and bottle washer and nurse and uh the launderer and you name it everything bookkeeper that if you make that list of all those things and somebody people want to help right yeah and if they say how can I help oh would you mind picking up the dry cleaning for me oh do you have a you have a son right do you think they could mow the lawn just little things like that oh U do you have a couple of hours just spend time with John you know yeah I heard I got to go get my haircut I gotta go or I gotta go for a massage or I want to go have I heard one lady mention that she goes like you said people want to help but they often don't know how and if you can give them exact Direction it's usually always a yes because you know if you leave it up to them it's like well yeah people always say I'm willing to help just let me know what you need but the key is is you on the other side need to kind of go with that Clarity and specificity and say exactly what you need because um otherwise you you know they would say you're not going to get what you don't ask for right exactly or on the other hand most people okay they might say I'm going to come by or they want to but they don't know what to do or what to say or even whatever you need do you come empty-handed no bring a dish bring a casserole right yeah man so did you find did you find because you know everybody everybody's literacy in so many areas is different and um you know for instance just the whole money and medical portion how was that for you how did you navigate you know a lot of people barely understand their own insurance how did you begin to understand hers and all that kind of stuff and what were kind of some of the resources you use there I'll tell you a quick quick story before that I'm almost s like some of the politicians debates they want to answer more about what they or before they answer the real question but about a asking for help or Care community at the memory care what i' like to say is the care was exceptional the coffee was institutional during the last two weeks before she passed away she's on hospice another norovirus quarantine happened unfortunately my aunt and I are the only ones allowed in the building besides staff and the residents and I get on social media on Facebook and said can somebody please bring me a mocha two different friends from two different coffee places show up at the front desk with a mocha for me and I still remember who they are and I still thank them occasionally you were a lifesaver that day but yeah they just needed to know what what to what to do and they were very happy to do so because otherwise uh poor bills sitting there in the Care Facility right yeah waiting waiting waiting so so going back to your question uh it helps that I have two business degrees uh know enough to be dangerous about finances and taxes and things like that uh insurance I still even though I haven't been in the financial services industry I can read a long-term care policy for somebody because it's hard for a lay person to understand those the a little fine print that wasn't the situation with my mom uh but it was more handling things we set up what was called a uh Med uh Medicare special needs income cap trust as she ran out of money that's what helped us through that knowing that she was not going to be able to pay for her full care fortunately they she was able to go on Medicaid easily it was not an ordeal we had a the Care Facility a good relationship with the casew worker oh I can see your situation we can do we fill in the blanks check all the boxes later admit her put her in the nursing in the memory care and what we did is an income cap trust for those who don't know is it allows you to become eligible and stay eligible for Medicaid all your money goes into the trust whatever income she had some retirement fun Social Security coming in later she got my late stepfather's uh federal pension so everything goes into the trust and whatever it goes in goes out to pay the Care Community whatever is left on her expenses is paid by the state theoretically at the end of when she passed away if there was anything there it was Zero but if there had been it would have reverted to the state so that's how that worked and I was able to follow along and every time we did our review each year I'm not worried about you Bill you're keeping all your records just perfectly but you go back to the insurance and everything else it helped that I had been in the industry and I knew the terms and knew how to communicate with people I mean part of the communication was with the Care staff some people are real shall we say jerks about it yeah you do this you and that's just going to antagonize people uh but by communicating with them and and holding them accountable this is what's in the care plan but working with them to take care of Mom because they're trying their best usually things are a little challenged challenged these days right more than they had been uh you can get good care right it's interesting it just made me think also that one of my friends she was a fellow alumnus uh from my University her mom was in that memory care at the same exact time oh wow so and she felt the same way the care was good she was retired that point but she spent a little more time there uh I was working and my aunt helped me on that we just each visit as we kid but after my mom passed away as like I said I didn't have any problem about going back there for any reason I was still friends with the staff and like I said I went into the field that friend of mine never went back it was just too painful too bad a memory so people again react in a different way so okay all this happens um we'll go back a little bit you your mother passes away you decide that you're going to continue to give now is this where you start Coen care giving or how did this kind of concept come to fruition what was the goal and intention of it and what was it like starting it because um obviously this was something you're very passionate about but what I try to get to is hey there's probably going to be difficulties regardless of how much passion you got and hopefully the passion is what gets you through the obstacles and hurdles great question there there was a couple years gap between when mom died and when I started looking at this like I said I thought I was going to just do more volunteer work but I came across this concept of a care of caregiving support and let's take a go back a bit the this is what I ran into the emphasis rightly so whatever condition is on the person with the disease or condition right because they can't take care of themselves may not be able to make their own decisions right but who is saying to the care caregiver a family member how are you doing what support and resources do you need the problem is that especially when it comes to dementia as opposed to some other conditions like cancer or cardiovascular there's a plan there's treatment right and with dementia if you get a diagnosis which you don't always hear because they're not really sure right it's hard to diagnose without uh further testing or possibly after they pass away on an autopsy don't really know the problem is that uh people feel let down I said where's the plan where's the treat where's the pamphlet to take care of my loved one it's more like well good luck keep them safe and out of you know out of pain yeah so I felt that very lacking and it hasn't improved much I hear that from my clients I hear that from my support group attendees so I'm trying to fill in that Gap what I ended up doing was after hearing about it is I I got very active on LinkedIn of all places instead of a job search tool which is still of course I got rid of a lot of people who were never helpful I was never going to have any connection they they were useless fir as future network I started looking for everybody not just nationally or in the Pacific Northwest internationally in Elder Care dementia care senior care and setting up a conversation says what do you do how do you get paid how do you Market yourself what do you think about what I'm going to do to fill in that Gap and be an advocate and an an advisor to caregivers and people said besides tell me about theirs and some of them are still helping today right right if I say somebody I'm thinking about somebody in South Florida that I connected with back then I said I've got a client there and we need some resources who's an elder law attorney who's going to be in home care who's what's a good assisted living that type of thing answers because they have the same mindset thinking uh together that's where and we'll get back to the certified senior advisor aspect so I uh I went forward from there uh late 20 got to remember the year 2016 um I started moving forward and making plans the beginning of 2017 I registered with the state used up all my uh vacation time because I was going to I didn't mention this one thing I was retiring in April of 2017 I didn't just give the state my employer two weeks notice I didn't give them two months notice I gave them two years oh wow because I said when I hit 25 years and age 65 I'm done you can't afford me you can't pay me enough not one day more and I actually had an app you've probably seen like a countdown yeah I did a retirement countdown awesome so uh so I had always started doing the business before I even retired I I didn't uh I couldn't use my sick leave I probably should have years ago but I didn't use it very much but I started Network and going to Senior Care meetings and meeting everybody I could to build it now I'm going to kind of uh guess where you might go with with another question challenges so I'm doing something that very few people do there's only a handful around the country the closest to where we are a lot of people think I'm like one of the adult placement or senior housing advisers right I work with them but I don't do that because I can't keep track of all the care communities and Care Homes Etc that's what I Rely Upon them uh and most of them are certified senior advisors like myself especially one company you've heard of Oasis Senior advisers hey after you're done listening to this amazing podcast be sure to give it a festar rating then go check out the other podcast in the podcast connection network including my own everything's connected check us all out the link will be in the episode's description maybe yeah some of the others are that way too care Patrol syst of living locators that one right but I tell people do not use a place for moms you will regret I'm not going to go any further there not going to waste my time so uh the other thing I'm close to but I'm not a medical or social worker is the geriatric or aging Life Care managers right I do try to put together the care team collaborate with him put together the care plan to uh work in a holistic approach to the care and putting together the team to take care of the person with dementia so it also uh takes care of the caregiver because my client is not the person with dementia my care my client is the family member or the family that is taking care of them and help them not just take care of their loved one manage the care but also practice self-care and prevention right so again with that and and it what it does is it it reduces their stress their sense of overwhelm isolation right so help them sleep better at night that's what I try to do now were people retive I needed somebody like that 20 years ago were people receptive when you asked for the help in getting the business plan up and going with like how do you get paid because you know there's with some people there's a mentality of you know feast or famine and that nope this person might be taken out of my pocket so they're unwilling to help but how was it um I know it's small so there should be less concern about competition but uh I'm just kind of curious yeah and I like to say I may be in a niche but it's a huge one because there's millions of caregivers right sure but yes that's but that's a very good question because I am private pay I don't uh go through insurance I either work on an hourly basis uh especially people have just immediate quick needs and need a little bit of advice and some support and resources but dementia is a long-term complicated and sometimes longdistance situation right so I also have a monthly plan which gives them a few hours a month of my time however they want to use it they can break it up they can do it in bigger chunks or smaller chunks however they want to I'm very flexible about that so I actually was almost half the fee when I started seven and a half years ago and then about three and a half years ago at the advice of a uh a networking business group they said you're you're undercharging and you should simplify your structure it was too complicated before and uh nobody has balked and if because if somebody and I'll tell you what the fee is now it's $75 an hour which is about half of the geriatric care managers and or $300 a month and it could be discounted if it's multiple months right but nobody's bulking at it because if they can't afford that I don't have a client anyway right yeah if somebody has very very limited funds uh they're not going to be able to afford even that but very often I just say let's have an initial consultation and if they say I really can't spend much money or it well I said don't worry about it today is free here's a little bit of advice if you find you need more and you you can pay that fee let me know that's not as you can probably tell it's not what drives me right I don't I don't live off of what I make for my business I work for my whole life I have an income which pays my bills right so a nice thing that I do it to be fairly compensated but uh it's not what I live off of it's not what motivates me so so it's co and Consultants yes tell me exactly like the title the role and if I were coming in for the consultation a couple questions you might ask would get started first I'll explain the Consultants yeah so when I registered it one I didn't know I didn't want to have to change it at some point to consult or Consultants two I've been in management I've been a supervisor I didn't want to manage people I know right I trouble managing myself sometimes there you go so what what really happens is and this goes along with how I work is when I had the initial consultation and I'm asking a lot of questions about their health finances housing support F family that's involved or not involved that type of thing and we move forward then I am uh determining who else to bring in to to the team to work with us and again I wanted to mention about certified senior advisor is a a designation which is held by a lot of people in finance and real estate insurance and mortgage because it's not just making a suitable recommendation it's about protecting our most vulnerable population from fraud uh abuse and and predators right and what we're doing is taking a that holistic approach you're not just okay I mean I took care of Mrs Smith now I'll take care of Mr Jones instead of thinking who else does my client need to take care of I'm always thinking that way who else can they should they be working with that'll help them feel less stressed and overwhelmed so that's what I try to do is bring in those pieces uh and take the the closest analogy if I don't if you've ever heard of it or your listeners is wraparound from social work which is when a kid is in trouble and they bring all the different elements in the teacher the minister the cop the uh other advisers the family and get the kid back on track that's what I'm trying to do with senior care not just work as in a silo by myself but work with everybody else to give the proper care to the loved one so that's how that's how I work going forward so when I am after I've referred people to say a housing adviser or other people then they're helping them and then we're checking back in occasionally that that becomes the Consultants they become the consultants and then I can go be starting or working with somebody else while they're being helped by them because some people for instance they're not quite ready to bring in home care right or not ready to look at housing although I tell them I mean this is the first piece of advice don't the sooner you talk to me and some of people I collaborate with with the better if you keep if you're in denial keep kicking the can down the road or shoving it under the rug so to speak not having a conversation with your family it's only going to get worse and it's going to be harder to make those changes and the sooner that you have some plans in place like plan A B C right and bring in various advisors like go find a Care Community put on a deposit that you feel would be appropriate that you would like and you feel your loved one would like then you've made that decision you can sleep better night knowing you've done it and you just go on the waiting list until they're ready that made me think of one of the questions I had which was at which point in this journey you know when do they contact you what's the ideal time for people to contact you like okay for me let's say my dad's 70 and he just had this event um let's say I know he's predisposed um do I wait till I start seeing signs or is this something I could do now and say hey Bill you know this recently happened with my father I know there's a propensity probability of this um what are some things I should start looking at are there some things I should start setting up and you know just just even having this conversation has opened up so much like with the trust thing and going hey should I consider something like this for my father so when is that time that somebody reaches out and starts this kind of progress I guess I could it sounds a little cheesy but rer the better yeah you're thinking that there is a problem there probably is or there might be and even in your case for instance you could say you could gain some information okay what should I be thinking about what should I be looking for what should I already have in place uh it's like the the old line of heard when I was in Financial Service you can't buy insurance fire Insurance on a burning building right right and there's a lot of health and life insurance and long-term care and things like that that once you get to a certain point it's either very expensive or you you'll get denied yeah so the sooner that if you know that there's a situation or a possibility uh it's better to plan in advance but if you also if you have a aging family member having those conversations again the first things besides like what what I do what I did about with the alzheim association go to the support group that typee of thing is make sure the legal documents are in place I mean that's probably that that besides safety and there are a lot of concerns with safety uh it's not just tripping hazards and fire and firearms and things like that is have make sure that the wills in place the the the advanced directive which uh points the uh personal representative the power of attorney the pulst you know it's called a little bit different in different states of Physicians order life sustaining treatment but that's what for the EMTs or the Care Facility what measures are we going to take if their their health declines or they need uh emergency you invasive care I'll tell you a quick story about that right soon after the hurricane we're doing the advance director with my mom and she still had enough cognitive ability to answer the question questions she hadn't slipt that far yet and this was a case that was in the news big time in the mid 2000s I don't know if you'll have heard of it maybe so I'm going through the questions I say to Mom do you want to end up like Terry shyo this was a woman in Florida who was a persistent vegetative state for like couple of years the families were battling the politicians kind of it was horrible my mom was very clear answer absolutely not and I put that on the on the on the advanced directive I told my aunts this is what I heard this is Mom's wish and she said okay that's what we'll go by and I consider that still to this day a gift she told and this this is an individual it's a personal thing not everybody makes these choices my stepfather wanted all possible measures taken everything intervenous you know you name it you know tubes all artificial nutrition you name it antibiotics mom wouldn't want anything but as she progressed I didn't have to make that tough decision I knew what her wishes were let her go keep her out of pain keep her comfortable keep her as hydrated and nutritious as we could and towards the end as I said to the hospice nurse increase her her uh morphine so that she's not hurting and I'll have what she's having yep yeah right because I needed something yeah yeah I yeah I know this the past week with you know like I said my dad going in and ending up intubated for my knee surgery Sor just you know it all those things all this stuff you're kind of talking about was something that hit me and it's because you know and it was supposed to be routine and you know and I should know having spent 12 years in the medical industry and worked the level one trauma is that you sign the paper because yes even though it is routine things can go wrong and um it's really not routine to be intubated with medicine and have your body cut open no matter how how many times a day they do it it may be routine for them but you know my advice is kind of like you said is um especially with Advanced directives and whatnot have that all set ahead of time because you know you end up in a situation like you said when you guys started off yall were located in different places yeah we're all over the country my father I was on vacation and when things start happening and then there's only other family members to go off of and maybe you're the decision maker and you're not even around M um it it can be very challenging and difficult so not to mention trustful yeah and that was kind of the that was kind of the the part that really got me was the stress and knowing you're not sleeping well you're not eating well knowing you should but then of course once it's all done and you know they took him off the vent and he's starting to improve and I'm like I can finally sleep and I finally start eating I'm like GL to hear that you should have been doing that the whole time like what were you thinking but you know there's something in the way you feel versus the way your mind doesn't logically think when you're under that form of stress that even though you know you should you know that eating is the best way to increase your energy and to keep you healthy and keep you from getting sick maybe you still don't do it and so you know it it's never more important I think than to understand the concept that the situation you were in and what's come out of it and the situation I just went through like it's going to happen to all of us at some point some way and so being prepared for that is kind of the key so you do not go off the rails because when it happens it's going to be unexpectedly and it's going to happen very slow and fast all at once you know um but it kind of surpasses continuums if you will until things settle down and you know maybe you end up in kind of a long-term situation maybe they get better or there's instances where people pass away and um people never get that resolve and the journey is short but regardless you know figure that way to take care of yourself and start understanding some of these things and getting a handle on it but um do you work Solo or do you employ other people do you have other people that help people through whether it's you know you said you're versed with a business background so you could help people with insurance questions or hey should I do this or that but do you have any other people with Specialties or people that you bring on that help so again I don't I am a solo preneur some people would say uh I don't have any employees but I like to also say is because there's very few people do what I do I don't compete with anyone I collaborate or partner with everyone okay some point I may need every possible Financial economic medical social work type collaborator to help on on the team so yeah that's a I wanted to go back to something you were saying that uh everybody at some point feels guilt they feel am I doing enough did I do something too soon or too late um did I make the right decision like housing and people always ask me that's one of the top FAQs when is the right time to move them into a care facility or Care community and I said very very rarely does anybody hit the Goldilocks just right range yeah very usually it's a little too late too little soon usually more too late you know uh the people I work with uh say I wish they had called me sooner but I'll do the best I can right yeah yeah because it's usually not till you know my great-grandmother um had it and you know growing up multigenerational like it was the whole family like the sons lived on the side the mom lived in the middle but you know this is rural Texas and gas stoves and at some point maybe she left the stove on I think it was but there was stuff like that where it's like hey you know there's usually some sort of incident of we're not going to let them die of a gas leak or you know use knives anymore um because she used to cook all the time of the and that was kind of the Catalyst to go okay we need to start looking for a care facility or something I remember somebody of my support group a while back he actually passed away before her she had dementia he had other issues but he realized it was two signs were game changers one driving with her and she suddenly took a right turn across cutting off traffic that was one the other was she put her cell phone in the microwave oh oh yeah man yeah okay things are very different now um let me reassure your listeners and what and viewers that uh I can't remember if I heard this from the uh it might have been from the author Still Alice the movie would Julianne Moore uh Lisa Jova it's not a matter of you know we all lose things we misplace our phones or glasses Keys whatever it's not a matter of if whether you lost keys or not do you remember what the keys are for oh there's a big difference there because because we're all busy we're all moving things you put the keys in a place you usually don't put them yeah oh why did I put them there okay you're busy right but if you forget what are these you know yeah yeah that would be way more alarming yeah so I got another question we and we had kind of talked about this um I had it as a question of the difference between Alzheimer's in dementia but then I wanted to discuss that you and I had talked before we started recording on um I mentioned that it runs in my family on both sides of my mom's family and so it's always a concern for um my mom myself um as it was for my grandparents when they were alive and you said that whether it was maybe your mother had a particular version of it but you weren't necessarily at the same risk and so I want to hear a little bit about that because I too would like to know how you know what my prognosis may look like down the road no it's it's a great question and i' love to inform I love to raise awareness and educate speaking got one in a couple days at a Care Community this week is um first about Al in demena think in terms of cancer the umbrella term is just cancer then you have different kinds right right brain prostate breast whatever it is lung cancer dementia is the umbrella term for all the others underneath Alzheimer's happens to be the most prevalent about 2third of the cases unfortunately yes it's terminal Progressive debilitating it's the on the top 10 uh list of debts in the United States one it's the most expensive and two it's the only one without a cure oh I didn't know which is quite unfortunate but there are over a hundred different types of dementia most of which we've never heard we never never hear about but some of the more common ones are vascular dementia dementia with Lou Lou bodies frontal temporal dementia FTD and then various others also can be alcohol induced it could be brain trauma it could be a lot of other reasons people do get them I I had a client who was a former college and NFL star back in the 50s and 60s and all that repeated uh hitting you may have seen the movie concussion was it with Denzel Washington I think and they talk about that and actually my university did has been doing the research or is it CTE I believe it's called the the a right and you know that's scary so there's a lot of different things now some forms of dementia are not uh genetic related at all and some of the ones I mentioned like alcohol or brain induced although it could be that by doing those behaviors it turns on the genes you may have heard the term dirty dirty jeans I've never heard that yeah dirty yeah you may want to look that up I I'm not it's not my fiist but you can be do everything right perfectly fine and just one thing triggers those genes and they take off in fact actually the other thing Lisa goova talks about in a wonderful Ted Talk is that you can do everything right and still get it and then vice versa do everything wrong live a long life and never get dementia right you know nobody really know you just have your probabilities but if you do certain things and this is going to get into my mom I'm going to tell you the story of certain behaviors and environments stuff you're going to help your chances of not getting it lowering your risk now two areas in particular two types of dementia tend to be more genetic early onset Alzheimer's okay or uh FTD tend to be either younger or Andor genetic plus you may have heard about the apoe4 uh genetic marker and that was also talked about in Still Alice because she had she was a a college professor the woman in the book and the movie which the book is actually better um and the question was would she she didn't want to tell her family but when she finally did said you may or may not want to know and there were two siblings I don't want to give away too much didn't want to know one who was planning to have kids want to know because she may end up passing along that genetic marker now when it comes to my mom she's a little bit different she became symptomatic in her early 70s nobody else in the family has Alzheimer's there may be a little mild cognitive impairment because my my aunts and uncles are in their late 80s and early 90s right right so but other than that they're doing pretty well the other was so she wasn't that old not genetic with her however she was living on the Gulf Coast toxins in the uh pollution and chemicals in the air soil and water mold and mildew she used to smoke didn't exercise she barely walked the dog to the corner and said go farther go farther she didn't want to get in a pool because there's kids in there okay he was socially isolated a few miles off the coast and in Mississippi she was in the caregiver role for my late stepfather and and this may have been the the biggest she was a print maker it's called intaglio she was etching into metal plates and then putting it into an acid bath for something like 30 years wow so some combination or maybe even one of them is what probably why she got Alzheimer's and again she's like the poster child for genetics I mean or should I say environment and for Behavioral lifestyle choices so I tell people stop eating crap do something like the Medicare Mediterranean diet get your sleep keep active socially and physically and mentally and those are the things that will help you maintain your health you don't have those under underlying conditions we heard so much about in the pandemic which may cause you to get dementia of some kind uh I mean think about it and I'm not the first person to say this where would we have been during the pandemic if it as a society we have been healthier yeah got through it a lot better yeah yeah I man that's a I was actually thinking about that on uh when I was driving yesterday because I went to at my father in rehab and I'm driving out I'm thinking of this interview and I'm thinking of all these things I'm thinking of being a podcaster and you know similarly to you that if you'd ask me would I become a podcaster years ago probably not but then there's um this component of of like you said you needed purpose and when I was laid off and I didn't have purpose and didn't want to go back into Healthcare this is what gave me the purpose because I was declining my health was declining due to lifestyle choices which was you know drinking a lot smoking I was depressed I was on medications and all these different things and you know but it gave me this thought I was like man you know like yes covid was bad both of my grandparents did pass away during that time their component was a factor um although it wasn't the total Factor there were other comorbidity comorbidities and stuff within there however um you know it's I think of it you know I can't be mad at it because it's already happened and whatever happened as a result of it whether we were duped somewhat um I was laid off as a result of my career totally changed um depression came from it it's happened so we can't undo it so we have to make peace with what's come out of it however I look back and I think is it g to be you know I remember growing up and learning about you know the Spanish flu and all these things and what you know at what point what is history going to say when they put this into a history book how are they going to spin it what are they going to say that came out of it and what are we going to get from it is it this thing of Health like you stated but is there this component too I'm from Texas I'm from the south I was stationed in Meridian Mississippi before I went to Japan so I've been through buxy Gulfport and all those on the way when I was stationed in Florida for a long time and lived in Florida Yeah but whether it's environmental factors or personal you know like as you were talking about that I'm like man we really got to take better care of the Earth in terms of pollution the soil littering food all of it but yeah I'm curious like how that's going to be spun um but as a society as a world we we have a lot of work to do and I think about what the the term the caregiving thing and in terms of what we're talking about now it's why the conversation the thought process is important to get ahead of this because nothing's going to change for positive if people don't put themselves in the state of mind frame to see these things to understand that these are all contributing factors and um what do we have we have that the opportunity and the ability to get a hold of it or to come together and collaborate like you said as opposed to um you know the podcast is kind of based on collaboration we're all more alike than we are different so let's come together and figure things out so we can all have better lives we can all Thrive a little um Pine together two things here the pandemic and caregiving especially for dementia one of the tragic things about the that period where people were in were locked into care facilities people weren't able to see their loved ones and vice versa and that was increasing the isolation and probably progressed people's condition their their Dementia or whatever they had and you know I remember talking to a couple of clients loved ones through the window uh and and I'm just thinking well why is the physical therapist able to come in here with their whatever you want to call Bunny suits or what have you you know with masks and covered and gloves and everything else why can't we do that and go visit our loved ones there's not enough stuff there's not enough materials yeah well we hopefully we will learn from that that we can do better because too many people by the time that they saw their loved one they had progressed and they didn't know who they were or they passed away and didn't have closure that that's cruel what was it what was it like for say mandates or lockdowns are good or bad I'm just saying we need to do it better what was it like for you kind of because you started on this path a little before so you had probably just gotten kind of rolling and maybe what you felt like I got a grasp on this and what I'm doing and then the pandemic hits and how did what was your take on it how did it impact you if any or did it increase your purpose and zel for continuing to do this or what that's a really good question I I help people not just the Pacific Northwest but nationally even little to Canada I have a a client in the UK who's flying in tonight to see her mom I've been working with there for almost two years not quite so I can help people from anywhere which leads into I always thought that I could help Beyond Oregon Washington Etc but the pandemic people started looking for support elsewhere because I couldn't do it in person so various things I joined an International Group business group I started doing podcasts I like to say from New England to New Zealand uh Facebook group has members uh you know diena caregivers from all the states and provinces and pro and all six continents which is really cool I can't I haven't found a penguin in Antarctica yet uh and just various things like that so what I like to say is the pandemic I handed lemons and make leonello yeah which is better than lemonade yes sir man so yeah it it enabled me to start working with people everywhere more than I had been it started very slow uh so in my case it was a bit of a gift even though it was challenging yeah it just changed how I work how I help people uh for instance uh one case and actually ended up being mediation but it was also about the care plan for siblings uh around the Northwest four different cities and three different states and we did it all virtually except for the the guy who hired me here in the Portland area we had we met personally and I met with the mom personally so yeah it just it helped a lot most of the time though I don't meet I definitely don't meet the person with dementia except very rare cases like that client is flying in today I go visit her mom all the time but most of the time I don't visit with them and the vast majority of my clients are virtual so what what do you uh pandemic didn't hurt it helped what do you enjoy the most about what you're doing what what uh really fulfills you so I what I didn't mention with my state job I was working for Motor Vehicles the DMV yes DMV I I mean the last 15 years was in headquarters when actually one part of the job was good because I got to travel around our state yeah okay uh but sitting in a cubicle dealing with bureaucracy and red tape and a horrible boss definitely was not fulfilling and satisfying it provided an income it provided uh benefits and it gave me security when I retired right the with this is this is fulfilling this is gratifying this is satisfying to help people because all those jobs I did in the past they're all different right but it's help people and customer service yeah mine's the same way it's always been something of service you know and um like I've always said that the pandemic crushed me the layoff because it was a little piece of my identity but once I realized that well my identity to the coure is really I'm a kind caring compassionate person who loves to help others so it doesn't have to be limited to that so I just turn to podcasting and you know with a bigger reach and so you know and it's and I think about this in a parallel I mean I'm not at retirement age yet I'm a little bit younger than you but in terms of going like um maybe you feel like you found what your real purpose was later so in terms of that what I always like to ask people before we end is what is one thing unexpected that has come from this journey and taking this leap into uh Co and caregiving Consultants um something you never would have thought in a million years that's happened that's just money couldn't buy that's a tough one I mean I could talk about where I thought I was going to get my referrals or my business from I thought it was going to come more from the senior care industry and it hasn't because too many people do have that Silo mentality I'm G to do my job that's it but so it has come from so many other resources so many other places uh and industries so I usually tell people if you're you may be doing working with somebody and they yeah I want to work with you Bo I'm really worried about my mom she's showing signs of dementia and I have some tough decisions to make and they can be thinking oh they should talk to Bill Cohen I'd say that's that's still the biggest thing it was very frustrating earlier on uh I think it's that another thing was going back to financial services when I was in that I couldn't I couldn't sell worth a damn I mean I was good with service and advice but if you think about it back then how was sales done Dialing for Dollars knocking on doors Direct Mail the old old school stuff and I wasn't very good at it today it's about networking building relationships social media I have sell yourself I feel like my job is to sell myself yeah because if people know who I am what I stand for and what I'm about regardless of what you're asking me to do in exchange for whatever we're exchanging um you know the principles I will bring to the task M absolutely yeah so th those are probably my biggest surprises that that I could do it that I could do a business uh being self-employed and the thing is that all those other jobs help me to do what I do today and my of course my experience with my mom yeah because it is personal that's what you know with me I I felt like until I put together till I said Till I treated the company that laid me off like an ex-girlfriend and said I forgive you now let's see what I learned man I couldn't tell you whether it's my getting my masters in healthc care administration the process of it um running clinics working with Physicians having to manage Physicians and talk with other admin administrators and big bean counters Coos and VPS and CFOs of $7 million Hospital situ organizations you know it taught me a lot all the interviews I conducted for a lead nurse taught me how to interview as a podcaster and so um yeah kind of like you I didn't quite get to the retirement and the stability part of having that but in terms of like hey I've I've done this for a year now and I'm working on putting some stuff accountability stuff to go with the podcast but kind of like you said I can do this and um as long as I'm out there and people get value from what I'm doing which is telling stories like yours I'm putting resources out there letting people know they're not alone and hey you have somewhere to turn to um it's just a conversation a listen in a conversation way and I think that is the key finding a purpose something to get up for in the morning something to go out and do because like from my job too many people retired and they have nothing to go to and they're gone in a few months or a couple of years they've lost their work family uh they've lost their job their reason to get up in the morning and this is kind of cold but it's true there's a gerontologist here who talks about if somebody retires they go sit in the Lazy Boy and they're watching reruns in the news all day that is a recipe for cognitive quicksand oh I like that word it's a little harsh but it's true that unless you get up in the morning and have a reason to get do something have either a job or a hobby or volunteering or an activity I've been for the past eight 14 months or so I've started playing pickle ball I'm loving it you know awesome B growing sport right I didn't know because is horrible at tennis yeah so you never know so it's very important that each morning and that includes weekends we're doing this on Sunday right right uh every day I'm doing something but I can do as much or as little as I want to because it's something that's very gratifying yeah we all need and it is very true you know my grandfather after he retired from his second job at 82 it was within a few years of the recliner life you know and and then it was like he started showing a few symptoms and then we had to take the keys away and you slowly and yeah so it's tough but it definitely a reminder to be out there and that's what I always say is regardless of what day of the week it is I just I try to wake up and go I'm gonna make today as most fulfilled as I can whether it be with my surrounding family or talking to someone like yourself and you know I'm just thankful I get the opportunity to do this and you know exchange energy and stuff with another person and uh learn what people are all about and I'm thankful to know that there's caring people out there such as yourself that help people get through this because we're all going to face it and um that's been the greatest thing about podcasting is just meeting people learning what they do and learning that there is so much out there well we wanted to have a little bit better reason or purpose or reason to get up each day but it makes me think about the classic melbrooks line wake up in the morning look at the obituaries if your name's not in it make breakfast all right before we go I offer um everyone you can ask me a question if you have any questions if not that's okay but no we're good all right man well I will let you know when this is going to come out I'll drop you the link and email and whatnot and uh it was great talking to you likewise appreciate it you have a great rest of your day take care all right bye bye well that's a wrap I hope you enjoyed the conversation please remember to rate review And subscribe wherever you get your podcast from remember go out and be the person that you want to meet asteroid of fear [Music]