Intro the co- line pieace on ESPN and espn.com certainly caught my eye about uh the University of Michigan and the man who wrote it along with Pete famill here on the rich Isen show Dan Murphy staff writer of ESPN good to see you Dan how are you good Rich how are you I am well sir so I have lots of questions I'll give you the floor what is the document you and Pete faml um got and wrote about so what what we got over the weekend here was a draft of the notice of allegation which to make the legal analogy it's kind of like seeing the indictment that they're about to turn over to to say what the charges are so this could change before they actually finalize what they're going to attempt to sanction Michigan with and they still need to sort of have a bit of a probably likely a negotiation to figure out what the punishments are going to be but we did get a several new details about what the NCAA has found and what they're aiming to uh to ding Michigan with here moving forward okay so what what what did you glean from this document Dan so a couple things one is that Conor you know they had a lot of details on what Conor stallions was doing for the from 2021 to 2023 in order to steal you know grab signals of of other people's Sidelines and what his operation looked like they did not find any Michigan coaches who knew about this or that they could prove that knew about this and there were a handful of seven people total from the 2023 program who are uh subject to potential violations here and most of the coaching staff that lands on that list is due to interfering or trying to get in the way of the ncaa's investigation a failure to cooperate is the main charge and to me the one that stands out the most and I think the only guy that's still left on Michigan staff moving forward is is head coach shiron Moore who could be potentially facing some sanctions for his involvement in deleting some text messages that he got from Connor stallions on the same day when all this news was first breaking last October but those uh those text messages based on the reporting I saw were retrieved and and eventually handed Connor stallions text messages over by Chiron Moore that's right yeah so that NCA has seen 50 some text messages after they did some searching of his phone they were able to get him back and you know you can look into that in a couple different ways the fact that the NCAA has seen these text messages and isn't charging him or isn't attempting to accuse him of any violation other than having deleted the text messages might lead you to believe that there probably wasn't anything too spicy or too damning in the actual messages once the NCAA got a chance to look at them so okay so what what is in this document that actually puts out there what Connor stallions did and how it did get to Michigan's sideline Dan is there any because that to be honest with you I'm trying to find actual concrete videos um emails um an actual through line from what Connor stallion's gleaned What Connor stallions got what he got I'm is there any information on what he got in this document Dan they do say that they reviewed films photographs they had sort of a a Google drive folder full of information that stallions was gathering that showed sort of his how he coordinated with all these other folks that he was sending out to different stadiums and having them tape in other Team Sidelines they found video of that they found sheets of the signals that he was using uh there's some notes in there about having evidence that when this was all kind of hitting the fan last October that he sent a couple of these sheets to another intern's house to try to get them out of the building that he took a hard drive that was in Michigan football's offices and removed that from the building and and then has not turned that over to the NCAA or Michigan since then so they they were able to figure out using tracking some of the tickets he purchased through different aliases and some of the stuff he had in that Google Drive that he had scouted I think it was uh 58 different off-campus Offcampus scouting trips scouting trips which are against NCAA rules over the course of three years and you several different teams dozens of teams or so uh some of them as many as five six seven times a year he would go and send somebody to another team's game you one one particular opponent's game in order to try to crack their signals that's that's the meat of what they've found with stallions a lot of it was sort of what he's taken away and they were able to pin it down with ticket purchases and different photos and then film so where where are the photos in the films were are those uh still still under NCAA protection so this is a a draft of what would essentially be like a charging document right so this was pretty high level in terms of what they found the actual evidence is not something that anyone has seen you know outside of the NCAA investigators themselves at this point Dan Murphy here on the Rich Eisen show um all right let me let me ask you this because I'm not trying to out your sources Dan I really am not how's that for walking in the front door here but uh in Indian right now in the NCAA are NCAA investigation people trying to find out how you and Pete got this thing do you think uh I'm sure some people are I'm yeah you know I I think uh it's just one of those things I don't want to get too far into how we Source it but um yeah I think uh they they're they're building their case slowly and I think we'll have more uh concrete versions of this not notice of allegations that are coming pretty soon I would imagine before the season gets started do you think there are some people that are using you and Pete to build a case in front of people you know who are getting ready for a college football season right now and have potentially turned the page on 2023 Dan I don't think so I don't know that what we're going to publish is going to change what they're doing very much uh I don't really want to get too far into sourcing on that side I understand that and that's why I'm I think you're you're kind of you know maybe picking up my my drift here uh of this conversation is that uh once this was ripped out root and Whats in the document branch is there anything in in this document about what was going on um or anything going on after Connor stallion's left and had everything ripped out root and branch and and Harbaugh was serving a suspension uh anything from the point of uh you know the the Michigan State destruction on Dan from last year so there yeah no the the accusations against coaches and everyone other than Stallions in this is mostly about whether or not they cooperated with the NCAA efforts to learn more about this so it's not more about whether or not they were taking other signals and stealing them uh and yeah once stallions left mid October there's no accusations that there was any other type of uh rule violations in terms of sportsmanship violations at that point uh there are some other items in there that aren't related to Stallions in terms of some more nitpicky recruiting type of things that some of the coaches got involved in uh you know buying guys meals uh bringing guys on campus for workouts when they shouldn't have sort of contacting guys when they were too young I think the most sort of Chris Partridge serious allegation was against coach named Chris Partridge who's no longer with the program who was accused of sort of pressuring players to lie to or mislead NCAA investigators about the the stallions case to make sure that they protected the coaching staff interesting um and so uh in terms of um stallions on the sideline and a get up like that's in that's also in this document yeah the UN did did confirm that they they were able to uh determined that it was Conor stallions who was on Central Michigan's sideline Central Michigan played Michigan State in the first weekend of the season last year stallions was there wearing Central Michigan gear and had a had a bench pass from the central Michigan athletic department they didn't say how he got that pass or if they know how he got that pass but they did confirm that it was him on that sideline um who would you know he was there along with someone else who was in the stands videotaping Michigan State Seline during that game that's just so absurd positively abs Where do things stand so where do things stand right now Dan so yeah we're still waiting for the final version of the notice of allegations so which could be different than what you got a copy of correct yeah there could be I wouldn't expect it would change materially but it could be tweaked how let me ask you this question what in your experience potentially could cause this to be made different by the time it's official Dan I don't know that there will be any really significant changes I you know there might be tweaking language or people going back and forth about exactly what's what they want to to say in there but okay yeah you know after that I think there will be some sort of negotiation between Michigan and the NCAA to try to arrive at a set of penalties that everybody can agree on okay and where is Conor stallion now Dan where is he uh I I think he's waiting for his Netflix debut other than that's happened in November I think I think even sooner than that I think late August is when the show is supposed to be what are you hear what are you hearing about that NCAA investigators show I mean like is is are the NCAA investigators going to be you know uh ZIP zipping past Ripley to to get to get to this documentary and just with their their pens out and their papers like Dan is that I don't know you know it's it's uh you know in a series of documentaries that the uh the main subjects have have had a bit of control over what's going to be said in them so we'll see what stallion says I'm sure people watch I don't believe that stallion has cooperated with the NCAA at all at this point from what we know uh so I remains to be seen what he may say or or how he might frame things but it looks like he'll be a part of that I think in late August and I if I'm not mistaken in the beginning of this conversation you said that this document Dan is going to be the basis of a negotiation with Michigan in terms of penalties I mean I um what what did you mean by that that that this will just be pled out as opposed to be fought against by Michigan Dan I I don't know for sure I just know typically uh after the unstable provides a notice of allegations and in a lot of these cases they will go back and forth with the school to try to say here's what we found um you know here's what we think is appropriate let's let's talk it through uh and if Michigan wants to push back against any of that they can in the NCAA well then you know it the analogy is kind of like a pre-trial conference where you might reach a settlement in a in a criminal casee um instead of going to a jury trial and the NCAA typically goes through that process with schools uh when they're doing something along these lines so I don't know for sure that that will happen but that's that's the next step in the process okay do you want to offer an opinion as to what happened now I mean you're you're you're there facts on the ground you're seeing this document you you you know you might have one I don't know if you care to offer one cuz that Strays from the Lane What you think happened uh potentially but I'll give you that opportunity to offer what you think happened Dan uh no I mean yeah as you said I'm not really in the in the business of having an opinion on this stuff but you know I think it it seems that they've gathered enough evidence to show that Conor stallions was was videotaping these teams against the NCAA rules and so far they haven't shown that any of Michigan coaches Beyond stallions and a couple interns and one full-time staff member who was unnamed uh no no one else has been accused of knowing how stallions was acquiring all these signals what about your opinion of the effectiveness of it Dan do you have anything on that front based on what you're seeing or gleaning I'm not a football coach I never played D1 football I wouldn't venture to say how much that may or may not have help them when does this become official do you think this document it's a good question I would imagine before the football season um that we'll they'll have official notice of allegations I don't know whether or not uh the full process will be concluded before the football season starts and there's like level one Level 2 violations right level two type of I guess violations if you wouldn't mind explaining to my audience what that means and uh I read in your document it's level two for Coach Moore right now and what would what would that mean Dan yeah so that's right so there's NCAA has different tiers of what they consider the most serious violations level one is the most serious and typically lands on people that have shown a sort of blatant disregard for the rules or a repeat offender of rules right now Shir more from what we have been able to gather is accused of a level two violation Which is less serious and less likely to result in major penalties uh but on his list I think is potential for a a show Clause uh show uh show clause or a suspension is what the document tells us so you're saying his first season as head coach of Michigan might include a similar sitdown of what harball had is that what you're saying or yeah that's it's it's on the table I don't know that it will actually get there but that's that's what's on the table Dan Murphy I appreciate the time greatly appreciate you laying out some facts and uh what's going on for my audience appreciate it that's Dan Murphy ESPN investigative reporter right here on the Rich Eisen show catch the Rich Eisen show every single day on the Roku Channel 12 to 3 Eastern 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