Bleeding Green Interviews: Glenn Lazarus

[Applause] all rers fans it's Jared kroer Raider 284 here you're listening to episode number one of bleeding grade podcast series well Glenn Lazarus um a club Legend Rider Club Legend uh the uh the the awarde of so many citations I don't even need to go over them uh but enough to say that you have uh a history in this club uh which needs real attention um the aim of these bleeding green interviews um is to tease out some of that earlier history but to take people through I guess the not just the informal elements of of of the past and their you know the the key people and their involvement in the in the club but also something to do with you know important games memories uh we'll have plenty of time we've got plenty of time I want to take you a long way back and knowing full well that this club the Raider Club has a historic strong connection to the town of quinan and it just so happens I guess I have a history background with the the history of the region that quinan itself has a an extraordinary history it's interesting that the name Lazarus does appear and we might get to that in a moment but the name Lazarus appears in quean history as early as the 1840s um so we're taking taking it through generations and it is the case even as we speak today in 2023 that the Su dial out the front of the visitors center uh was a gift from your great great grandfather uh to the town of queenan in 1860 which is incredibly early now we might touch on that but just to give people a bit of an idea before we pick up you know the family in the last couple of generations if we're talking you know the great great grandfather and we're talking a bunch of sons you and I have talked about this and I wouldn't have known it perhaps you wouldn't have known it except for a an extraordinary genealogist um who has gone into these kinds of things when we do start to do a little bit of work we know that your great great grandfather came here in the 18 came to Queen Bean in the 1840s we know that he married a woman I think she'd been previously married with a surname Tien uh she was a Grogan uh she was a Roman Catholic uh and your great great-grandfather was the son of Dutch Jews uh who went to England uh all the way back pretty much at the beginning of the 19th century so it's quite a background but we do know this that your great great-grandfather uh converted to Catholicism courtesy of of of Harriet Grogan that she had her first child in her early 30s she had her last child in her early 50s there were 10 kids and eight of them were bles eight of them were boys that is to say every single one of them played footy played rugby union uh and once we get to post 1908 let's say really about 1920 they were playing league so there's a background there in the Lazarus family arguably I think actually factually more than any other player who's played for the Raiders you've got a long background that Tails all the way back to there but let's go to your memories now uh and start there so everyone knows I think all Raider fans know that you grew up in queenan can you take us back to your early footy which I assume was in primary school yeah um well I started playing rugby league when I was 5 years old um uh who four uh well I'll get to that I'll get to that um The Story Goes mom was waiting out the front of queenan South public school waiting for me to uh to finish school and and and she was going to take me home and she was with a group of mothers and the mothers were all talking about how their sons have joined up to play rugby league for the queenan Kangaroos and um when uh mom heard this she asked me when I arrived that uh did I want to or am I interested in playing rugby league you know with all all your schoolmates and I said yes so Mom took me off to training I assume it was at free body up freebody over there somewhere around that area maybe I don't know um and she dropped me off I went and she came back and picked me up and I was apparently balling my eyes out um hating what had happened happened um a training I didn't want to play rugby league I didn't want anything to do with it um and so that was my uh initiation of rugby league I went home and but um thankfully uh I grew up in Christopher cresant queenan and uh two houses down were the ly family uh who we became very close friends with um and they had a son Peter ly who was a year or two older than me and uh he was playing for the queen be and blues the traditional Rivals of course ex and um so um I asked Mom could I go to the you know go and uh experience that and and the rest is history I played every year up until I was around 16 uh for the queenan blues and um uh enjoyed immensely got to uh obviously uh come in contact with great people like John McIntyre and Les McIntyre the family um you know the uh any just at that early age any football influences directly did you have any sort of older players who were involved with the blues that that that that had not really I mean I we used to watch them all the time the first grade side now as kids I can remember very vividly uh being at Seaford oval sitting well Mom would be mom and dad would be sitting in the car um watching but um you know I was there watching them play and Grand finals I've got wonderful memories of them winning Grand finals and and getting up on Sunday morning and Mom and Dad would take one car over and come back with the other and then yeah so it was we um it was um wonderful times uh you know playing for the for the blues it was a wonderful Club wonderful people um very successful of course almost a George of the Bush I mean looking given will be I'll be talking to Marian uh and Don ferer in this the second interview um that that what you're talking about with Don senior as as you would know everyone knows uh 10 10 premierships in 13 years not too not too yeah I mean Don ferus Senor was a very um uh you know he was a big personality in queenan obviously when I was growing up and um he certainly uh was a big part of the reason why the blues were successful they were able to I think through I mean I don't remember a lot about it because I was too young but you know the quean Leagues Club was was um a very successful Club because of the P machines and uh they were able to influence you know quality players to the club and and they got a bit of reputation as being Cil tales and all this sort of thing but um they had some wonderful I remember John basty playing for the blues um uh John Osborne these sorts of guys you know uh just uh wonderful players and uh yeah it was I don't know it was just a wonderful place we used to play at Taylor Park and then we moved to ro Park when the when they were built and um it was just a wonderful Community you know um I had wonderful times there well and we there talking about the engagement with the with the blues and on the weekend what about high school I think you were carabar high uh uh student and and was League played uh in schools through that period and and how was it played who did you play yeah it wasn't um wasn't uh you know in the Forefront it was it was I don't know I don't have a lot of memories I do remember going to bonala to play a game we played a couple of games at lamit park across the road from um South uh from the school and things like that but there wasn't uh a lot of uh I don't know the school football just wasn't a big thing for and it wasn't organized you didn't play each week in the footy no no I don't think we did I remember we played queenan high once and things like that but I don't yeah um I don't have a lot of memories mate to be honest with let me ask this so in that period I suppose when you're getting up to say age around about 16 17 uh what was happening in terms of the positions you were playing take me through that were you uh you were a lively back in the early days before you went into the the forwards or what was what was going on there well yeah um yeah I was uh you know Center or 5'8 or you know as a young kid um and as a young kid I played a lot of um Aussie rules as well and um uh but as I got older I grew bigger and I slowly progressed my way um you know to 20 well I played first grade for the blues as a front rower um is that your like so when you first played for the blues it was this it it you came to the front row as it were or were you the blues for early on that was your position and stayed um no well I was I played back row I played front row for the Quan blues and then when I played under 203s at the Raiders I was a lock you know back row um it just really depended I um my I think the turning point for me uh was um it was in the early uh my early period at the Raiders um Don ferer grabbed me around the spare tire and uh said I want you to start uh thinking about playing front row cuz we're a bit lighted on with front rows and we think You' you'd be all right there so that was sort of the turning point and then from then on it was just front row uh right throughout the career well I it's interesting I I came to to cber uh with the family in 1985 so basically seeing you from the earliest days and there are numerous aspects of your game that one could talk about but two in particular uh uh I recall vividly one is that your ball skills that that and and and interestingly I'm old enough to remember the pomies the first English play not the first but certainly those great English forwards who came across in the 1960s like dick haard Etc who were so gifted and then ultimately did the likes of Mal and so on all of them gifted with their feet because of soccer uh and and and with the hands now in your case interestingly with Australian rules because when you look at league players who played a lot of Australian Rules they're needless to say they're good with the ball at their feet one way or another um and and it sort of translates into the hands so that was one Aster game that you might want to touch on but the other one is I'm very interested um I've said it before I've written about this in back through the past that if you're not the best defender inside the sort of defensive say 15 that I've ever seen in M you're in the top you're in the go medal the medal positions right did you just with defense let's start with that was there anything that happened in your background that that that that assisted you in being one of the great Defenders you know and I'm I'm very conscious that that that you were playing alongside one a fellow called Dean Lance who was who I even remember certain tackles of Dean Lance yours were always the one that stopped tries but he made some of the really great tackles but given that were there any players around you any coaches where defense was singled out to make you the defender that you became yeah look I uh when I reflect on my my life and on my uh particularly my Football Life um and the one I think back to the junior coaches I had and the coaches I had in my early Raiders days um they they just taught me how to tackle you know um and I think it's something that's lost in today's game just the traditional low driving with the sh of tackles I don't think is um a you know high on the priority well as we know when it happens in the Contemporary game normally the the player who's been coughs the ball up they're not used to it yeah I mean I just I I I um I just lived in breath footy as a young kid um if I wasn't uh watching it I was playing it in the backyard or the front yard I mean in Christopher Cresent we had a lot of families big families or not so big families but a lot of boys around our age you know within you know 5 years and we'd all get together and play you we'd play across two or three different front yards and I was always playing footy always watching footy um living and breathing it and I just got um exposed to some wonderful coaches as a young kid um and as I said when I got into the Raiders um there was John Osborne and Mick Doyle um and then of course Wayne Bennett um when I started playing a bit of first grade and then of course Tim Sheen and and um yeah I mean I I think good tacklers the good tacklers that you see and when I say good tacklers you know the tacklers that stop people in their tracks by going low and driving and things there's no you know uh hitting across the head or anything it's all nice and lowering um they learn their craft at a very very young age i i i a very big believer in the fact that once a kid you know turns 145 and and hasn't got the the Fine Art of tackling down pack they're never they're not going to they're not going because they don't teach it when they become you know uh starting becoming young men um it's all about controlling The Rock and you know locking up the footy so um I was just very lucky um to be exposed to a lot of good co good young coaches at the blues um and uh and I guess subconsciously um I think uh and it's and I think it's still u a fact today that if you only allow oppositions to score two tries you only have to score three to win you know and defense wins games there's no doubt about it no doubt about Fin yeah no doubt about it the um the team that has the best defense in a year in the home and away games usually makes the Grand Final and more often than not wins it um and um and I just and I just loved tackling loved it I just loved tackling and um uh I uh I don't know it's just something that I carried through as a kid I was exposed to wonderful uh mentors and coaches and and people and uh that you know had a bit of an emphasis on tackling properly and all that sort of thing and and uh I just carried that on what about the the the bull skills and you you know the ball in hand on on your feet but but especially in an being a front rower uh when did you uh when did it become difficult to be playing Australian rules and League was that early on in other words you had to make a decision when was that well you know I played I I I guess at a very early teenage years um and there was a period when I became you know 16 17 years of age that I didn't play any sport you know I didn't I gave it all away you know I just wasn't can I can we just touch on that for a moment what what was the reason oh I don't know other things were sort of interesting to me you know um and you know all things that young teenage boys are interested in okay um that's girls amongst other things yeah all that sort of thing so I didn't play for a year yeah right it so and then um were you a bit sick of it then like in a sense that you I suppose you start at five was it was that a part of it or not it was just no I don't think so I just think that at the the you that particular moment in my life I just you know footy wasn't a priority to me anymore and um you know I gave it away and um some guys that uh I was uh kicking around with at the time um all wanted to go and play for the rules so I went and played for for them and um I was always on the bench I was um given no time and where are we in age terms about 18 now say 17 18 so I wasn't uh given a lot of time on the field um you know all up I would have played collectively about two and a half games as far as time is concerned so I wasn't uh obviously and I got no doubt a lot of it was my fault you know I was probably you know lazy and you know I was just sort of doing it for the social side of it all and I wasn't quite it wasn't really all that interested so um so what turned the switch well I don't actually know but the following year I went back to the blues and um so now you're about 18 or 18 19 so and uh I started um you know um you Steve Houston was a coach and uh these you know these wonderful people again as I say you just come across one I was just lucky enough to come across great people and um yeah and I end up playing first grade that year in with the blues um and what year is that where that is 85 right so that's 85 okay right and um uh and are you taking much notice of the Raiders through this period yeah I mean I'm a massive I mean when the Raiders came into the competition and I grew up as a massive param fan I just lived and breathed BL and go you know and um once the Raiders came in you know I just put param aside and I mean I still sort of kept an eye on them but the Raiders were my team and and I would walk from Christopher cresant all the way over to Seaford over every game what it there I was there when they won their first Premiership game and I just I just could get enough in your case right from the start that is to say from 82 you know you were yeah yeah oh yeah absolutely absolutely so you know I I lived in bre the Raiders um and um and so 9 96 9 5 I played um uh first grade with the blues uh as a FR uh so when are we talking what year 85 right5 so played uh first grade there um yeah playing against uh uh some fairly nasty humans uh for crookwell and Y and go and these sorts of players fo yeah and I really think I learned a lot there too you know I was a 19y old playing country footy as a front row I I certainly knew how to duck um but um yeah so I played first grade we went okay we didn't win anything or anything like that but um you know the 85 season finished and uh and I can remember I was working at Bill Lily Mitsubishi in 1986 and um it might have been late 85 actually but I got a letter I got a letter from the Raiders and um it was asking me would I um uh would I like to try out for their President's Cup side they under the 21 side for the 86 season right um so uh to suggest that I was excited would be an understatement you know um I remember very vividly uh you know just training as hard as I could obviously for as long as I could and uh be in preparation for the game and there were trial you trials to be had and things like that and uh and I I was lucky enough to get in and I don't think I got in as a front rower actually I think I was more of a back rower um and can I just at that earliest stage can you remember who you were dealing with in the club or was it just a general thing M was the right yeah right and did he did you get sort of talked to about it do you know what I mean was there sort of an engagement from the club or just they wanted to have a look at you yeah pretty much so they asked me to trial so you I think the trial match was at um in Braden Y and um yeah and and went from there and they named a squad and I was very fortunate to be in the squad and um uh it was only a six we competition back then in ' 86 and um we uh we went okay and we got into the Grand Final the Grand Final was being played at the um scg before one of the state of Origins yeah whatever and uh the day before uh well maybe two days before I can't remember now um uh well no it was the day before the day before I was walking my dog around um up in gerab bbra there uh obviously the suburb wasn't there back then but the the hill and all that sort of thing and I went over on my ankle and uh yeah and uh I managed to get home and um of course not knowing the first thing about injuries and how you recover from them how you treat them and all that sort of thing I didn't do any icing or anything like that so the next day we were meeting um at the bus at quean Leagues Club and of course I couldn't walk I tried to and Mick Mick Doyle the coach saw me straight away and said oh what's wrong and I told him and so when we got down to Sydney um we went to the cown Travel Lodge where the new South Wilds team was staying um and they got their Physio and I can remember sitting in the fo of the uh cam down Travel Lodge and watching like Peter Tonks and David Les Davidson walk past and all that two Hard Men right there yeah and just you know in all these guys playing for New South Wes cuz you know mine used my origin you know was me and mom sitting up watching the origin dad was a um a counsil worker worked night shift so he wasn't uh he was in bed so Mom and I would sit up and watch and we would always be screaming at Wally L you know we weren't very big fans of Wally L at the time you know so um so you know I uh yeah so um yeah sorry you go so we wrapped we wrapped the ankle up and we went over to Sydney un across the road on one of the fields and I tried to you know run and change direction it just wasn't going to happen so unfortunately I couldn't play and and of course being um you know I don't know I didn't say anything to Mom and Dad and of course they drove up to Sydney to watch and um and the first time they knew that I was injured was um when the team ran out and then I was hobbling around the inside of the fence who was the game against it was against St George I think it was St George yeah and they beat us they they uh they beat us but um and my dad got very angry and uh left the ground and yeah it wasn't it was all a bit disappointing to him which well it's going to be and can can we touch on that um your mom and dad in the context of your um you know kind of early football career at the very leas do you want to just I mean few things there were they uh you know would they come to games regularly how did that work well there were me and my three brothers so three siblings four boys um and so at one stayed for a long period of time for years we're all playing footy for the BLS right and so you know one game would be in Bell Conan one would be in yes one would be at right park in queenan the other one could be out at Wen Valley somewhere you know um and so we relied heavily on other people giving us list but Mom did her best you know she uh got you know she would she would get to as many of our games as possible and of course if she saw me play last week she'd go and see one of my other brother whatever you know it was it would would have been difficult you know so um your dad was a sheer yeah dad was a sheerer so he was away a bit but um he watched watched us play when we could and uh um you and if I'm not wrong Brad Clyde I do believe Brad Clyde's father was a sheerer he was too yeah in hay down in Hay there yeah lot of heeden in Hay I've got to put throw that in there yeah so it was just yeah Mom Mom just did her best you know she worked full-time at the um government printing office and on the weekends uh she would take us to Footy and uh um you know and and and obviously uh uh volunteer when she could and do all that all that sort of thing you know like was yeah she was she was in it up eyeballs as far as cuz all us small boys want to play footy you know and um uh yeah and so um how do you sit in the family with the on the eldest so on the eldest and then um we're two years apart before us as in every two years so Brett um one under me then David then Paul and um yeah they're all fairly handy footy players but um you know as I say there was four of us there was a pattern Oster Boys in there was a leged boys leery boys Turner boys all living in Christopher cresant and we just have big games of footy and U tackled or tip oh that wasn't touched don't wor about that and only time we didn't tackle when we were on the driveways we we we we had this understanding that we just walk across it and then got you get you down yeah yeah so it was uh as I say I mean I just lived in breath the sport uh from a very very young age and um and you know playing for the blues and uh I played a bit of rep footy when I was you know under eights and nines um I have a memory of me playing in an Australian Jersey and it certainly wasn't playing for Australia it was some representative team a camber representative team when I was eight or nine um but um yeah one of the things I I really um I G not giggle but I smile when I think of it is that I played as I said every year but one year probably um or 40 years as a from a kid to a to a gr man and never ever played in The Grand Final until ' 89 there you go so um uh yeah for one reason or another we just weren't good enough at any stage to get into a grand final and 89 was my first ever Grand Final so um and it was a good one to be involved with let me tell you well can can I I have to throw it in there you certainly made up for that because if I'm not wrong uh at your three clubs uh you in fact were a part of their grand final winning first Premiership so yeah that uh yeah that's very special when we'll get to that in in a little while can let's let's go back again um to the Raiders so the debut for your debut for the Raiders uh was off the bench if I'm not wrong uh against wests even a Campell town I mean it's going back ways but in sort of your memories of of well um in fact 86 uh when we were a part of the uh when I was a part of the 21s team it was only a 6 we comp and then there were two weeks of final so you played one team then you went in if you won you went so after that game we're all disappointed we're in the dressing room and John John McIntyre or Jr um walked in and um you know has had a you know said a few things and then he said I'm um we want uh we're going to grade eight of you we want you at training on Monday um to to have a shot of playing 23s because obviously back in those days there was three games every every day it was a 23s Reserve grade first grade and of course I i' busted my ankle so um and thankfully I was one of the eight that he named um and uh and so I was then I got exposed to physios which they got my ankle going you know and obviously very young man um you you certainly recover a lot quicker than what you do when you're at the back end of your career and so uh I was able to uh play a little bit of footy I I might have played you came off the bench of the 23s a couple of times you know that would have been about it I didn't really you know um and that was when I first got in uh exposed to a guy by name of tubby Camden and he's again another guy that was a wonderful influence on me um and you're playing what are you in the forwards like yeah I'm in the forwards but I'm not certainly not in the front row at this St um because you know when I was I was you know 18 19 20 years of age I was only 90 90 kilos ringing wet you know I was a fairly skinny sort of guy so anyway um so the year finished 86 finished and nothing was said so I just assumed that I was going to I was just going to go back and play for the blues and just continue on doing that and um I got a phone call from John McIntyre Jr hope I can call him JR because I don't know yeah I think we can for will be watching yeah yeah yeah so Jr gave me a call and uh asked me to come and see him at the Premier leag Club and went in there went down there and he uh signed me up for the 1987 year uh th000 bucks $1,000 sign on Fe so Glenn we you know let's let's let's pick it up there uh the contract that your first contract $1,000 bucks yeah well in those days of course contracts were a lot um big part of contracts were incentive based so you know he signed me up for $1,000 but of course if I played five first grade games I'd get five grand or you know um depending on how many yeah so so um so so it was my first pre-season ' 86 in ' 87 um so what was what was your mindset there to get as fit as you you know what I mean and this is the days when you know it was fairly aaic back in you know those days and it was you know at Taylor Park next to Seaford oval you running up hills running to running to light poles and all this sort of thing you know like it was really hard SLO really hard SLO and um uh yeah again I just I just trained my best I uh you know I was really Keen to sort of you know trying I don't think I I can't remember any defining moment where I thought oh you know I could I think I could you know I want to make this my career or whatever I was it was still just a part-time thing that I did you know even though we're with a I was a part of the Raiders organization at this stage you know it was still fairly part-time you still had a full-time job you know you trained you trained late in the afternoon secondhand car dealers always seed yeah yeah and CRA city council and you know uh so you know throughout my career coaches would ask you know do a priority list and you know and you'd always have to put footy number one family would be in there number one but sometimes family would put you know um but in those days you needed to live so you needed to work fulltime and you needed you know you just and footy was sort of you know second or third on your project going all the way back there to 87 your first year there what were what was your other job what was your outside uh well I was a g uh yeah I was a garbologist I was um well when I say that I was with the um um uh counciling camra and um cleaning up shopping centers Manar and Kingston shopping centers and things like that I was on the night Shi with Dad and um yeah and so in those early early days um I was on night shift so midnight till late and then I'd come home and I'd go to bed till about 1:00 and I'd get up and then at 5:00 I had to go to training and then I got home from training at 7 whatever and I literally would just have dinner and go to bed get up at uh you know 11:00 and go to go to work you know so that's a good message for contemporary footballers got it tough yeah yeah I well I look I think the the word that is being very quickly forgotten in this world is appreciation and um and I just wish that you know footballers that don't want to S sing anthems and they they don't want to do this and don't that should just reflect on the um on the uh you know the opportunity they've been given with this country and and ACR the game and just appreciate it a bit more because they could be out there digging ditches or collecting garbage or worse you know so anyway just digressing so yeah so um well let's pick up so we're we're in 1987 before we get to the later part of the season because that has its own story Y what were your what was happening with you and the team your memories of that let's say the first half of the season and Ticking over into the second half of the Season what's happening for the Raiders here because they've had a a pretty awful very disappointing 86 tell us a bit about 87 well Wayne Bennett obviously comes into the fold um and uh he along with Donnie Don ferer coaches first grade and um uh I think from memory um I I don't know whether um I can't quite remember who the reserve grade coach was it might have been Alan mcmah maybe a feeling it was I'm not sure but the the under 23's coach was uh Johnny Johnny Osborne right and um and that's where I started so well I actually was a captain of the 23 and I was playing lock right um and uh yeah we were going through um the season doing okay and then I got um the call up to reserve grade and I played I think the last 10 or 12 games of the year in in Reser grade um and uh so the Raiders first grade got into the semi-finals and um Wayne picked a squad of about 20 guys and that's and he picked me as a part of that um so I'd played as I said yeah um as you know ' 87 was the year I I started playing or got a taste of first grade um Ju Just on that and let because we might not get back to it uh did you find it the jump to first grade football pretty obvious and dramatic do something it was certainly a lot more physical um your time was cut short you know I mean these are professional footy players you know um yeah so it's a completely different ball game now playing um first grade so you know I was been given a taste way to put me on and in a couple of games cuz back in those days you played Reserve grade then you came and sat on the bench in first grade you know it was um yeah was what you did in those days and was there a feeling in that later part of the Season were you feeling it was the team feeling it that that this might be a fairly special year yeah absolutely because we were the first grad side were traveling very well I mean they are playing some really good footy and of course as we know yeah Mal broke his arm I think again in 80 in 87 Y and Kevy uh Kevy wallers was the center for a while and um did a great job and um and then M I think I don't know I I'm pretty sure he he by by the time the Grand Final obviously he was playing back playing in the centers but um with that arm guard as I massive arm guard in fact I don't know whether he'd like telling the story but um I think you better he uh because in and I don't know whether they do it anymore but in those days you know the the touch judge would come in and check your boots check your fingernails remember especially country football check charans and all this sort of well M put this arm guard on and then the the touchy had come in and uh test you check it and then he tap that one off and put this this one on that was just super solid you know um and and and I and I'm sure a lot of Raiders fans would remember him scoring a try in a semi-final at theg running over the top of David Trella David Trella that gets mention in absolutely he used that for arm guard to Perfection um good effect yeah anyway so um so yeah so obviously um you know everybody knew that the Raiders are going to be playing semi-finals and Wayne can I just on that I to get some idea was in that 87 cuz it sort of leads into the semis were the players of the opinion yourself of the opinion that things were working that the that the ferna Bennett combination was working well yeah absolutely yeah um look I think um and this is certainly no disrespect to Donnie ferer um um because he was a he was a great man but he sort of took a back back seat um Wayne was the handson most of the Hands-On guy and and um yeah Donnie was certainly there and had his input and and was a part of the reason why the Raiders was very successful um you know I think Donnie was a big part of the recruiting and things like that so um you know you back in ' 87 they had you know Mal and you Peter Jackson was there Gary Bel Gary coin so you I think Cambra were sort of pioneers in that in in a sense that they they raided Queensland you know it was really interesting but anyways Jackson was in the system you know there was a lot of queenslanders anyway so um yeah so we he picked the uh the squad and I was really thankful and appreciated that I was involved with it um got to play uh some time in a couple of the semi-finals one in particular against the roosters I think it was that game that M laid out Dave trell um but any thoughts there I mean before we get to the Grand Final but uh but anything part other than of course M and David Trella who I think still looking for a truck uh you know but there was there was that it was and again was the momentum building do you know well I remember the South Sydney game the week before I think it was um Steve Maven um yeah Jacko Peter Jackson uh and his kicking game just absolutely crucified him you know it was he got hooked and you never really saw a lot of Steve may even after that which was a really sad thing but anyway um but that was a that was a really exciting game just to be there and watching it you know I sitting on the bench I'm not sure whether I got any time there I don't know but the week after I think we played we we did we played The Roosters to get to go into the Grand Final against Manley and um and we were very successful in doing that obviously um and mly I think for most of the year with the Front Runners um they were very very um yeah a strong complete team you know they had um big Kevin Ward in the front row and obviously Cliffy Lions was just you know making his own career at the time you know he'd come from North and he was just he was just on fire and of course Desi Hasler and Theus goes on with that team and can I match that because in fact I made sure that I had this down that uh I'm sure people seeing this into the future this interview might be interested to know the bench for the 1987 Grand Final for the Raiders which was yourself Lori Daly Kevy walers Jay Hoffman Phil KY Paul Martin and Terry Regan now I might get to Terry Regan in a moment to see whether you've got any memories there but leaving leaving that aside um was in hindsight and one reads a lot about this but it probably has validity and that is that that the Raiders patently in that season 1987 had overachieved in in the the eyes of the leag community quite possibly in the eyes of the leag community in camber and quinby and and also in the team do you feel that in hindsight was this was the achievement to get to the Grand Final well they always say you got to lose one to win one you know um you know this year 2023 we saw a very young Broncos side make the Grand Final almost win it and of course everyone says after the fact that um you know you got to lose one to win one well I'm not totally convinced with that but um you know I think uh the raid has been a very young club and just sort of just tasting um you know some experience in Grand finals for the first time maybe that's true I don't know but um they certainly had a side um you know if a couple of things went their way that um they could quite have easily upset Manley but um they were a very very good side and um and of course you know uh in ' 87 there was talk of introducing some new teams into the competition you know particularly the Broncos and Newcastle Knights and I think was it the War I think Warriors came later the Warriors did come later but anyway there was a couple of teams that they were thinking about putting in and stuff and of course then you know Wayne everyone was talking about Wayne leaving the go of the Broncos and was he going to and and all that sort of thing and I I must admit I mean I I don't know I mean I don't know what I was thinking back then when I was a young young man and but um uh one of the things that I remember very vividly thinking about was it'll be you know it'll be interesting to see where the coach is going to be in in 88 yeah yeah um you know cuz we all we all uh react and uh connect differently you know and I think if the wrong coach had to come who knows you know things may changed but the perfect the absolute perfect coach came in ' 88 so yeah yeah and I remember the 87 Grand Final we lost and there is a f flighting around somewhere I think I'm even actually donning some sort of a mullet which is very very concer but um I it was a very there's a photo and you can see me in the background obviously with a clean Jersey on and everything but I looked very disappointed and I was you know not not being in there a part of the team on the well I was a part of the team but not um playing you know um I just it was a disappointing day for the camera Raiders and so forth but and I said this to Kevy this year in 20123 I said um you know uh you're going to be very disappointed for the week or two but you know when you actually reflect on the year you've had a wonderful year and the Raiders had a wonderful year I mean the the the experiences that the uh the Raiders um fans would have been out you know you know experiencing at Seaford oval you know on home games would have been great because they won most of them you know was and big you know yeah I mean there and there's no doubt that we had to move um to a bigger Stadium because you know we were becoming very because we were winning you know um so 87 uh again was um uh uh I don't know whether I was locked in for 88 yet I don't know I'm not sure in what since contractually yeah contractually I'm not quite sure I don't remember thinking about I don't know I'm not quite sure mate I I well I mean we won't spend too much time in 88 cuz we know ' 89 is sort of in the you know looming uh to hear a lot about but it is the case and I'm correct in saying I believe I am that that that that you were the player of the year in is in 888 so clearly you had a good I had a good yeah I did have a good and you know I did have a good year in ' 88 as I said I progressed from the 23s to Reser grade and then played some of the game what was happening there and personally that you know that was presumably fit absolutely and yeah AB yeah yes absolutely and it was I mean it was it was slightly disappointing but only that but I mean in terms of the sort of build up and I think basically for the purposes we should get to 89 uh because well there's a really significant moment in 88 tell us about it so ' 87 uh at the end of ' 87 obviously Wayne Uh Wayne Bennett moved back to Brisbane and um in the end I think you know there was some player coaches being baned around Alan mcmah I think was one I think um Warren Ryan was uh another name that was been bed around and then there was this young coach obviously in in at penth and um and uh yeah and obviously the rest is history Tim Sheen went or sheny went to came to us and um and there's a story that uh uh I wasn't I wasn't there but I've been told um that um when Wayne came to the club um he obviously sat down with the coaching staff you know the Mickey dos The Tubby cens um uh and you know everyone else that was involved with the club the previous year and uh talking about the roster and um there was I don't know whether it was sheni but there was belief that we were top heavy with front rilers uh for the 88 season and um sheni asked the question around the table about who we feel who they felt they could cut you know um or you know if if we had to cut a front row who was it and uh and it was me it was my they I've never been told who it was but some of them some of the people that at in this meeting um recommended me I was a lazy like and that's true probably um I was lazy you know when you think about it they had Sam beo Brent Todd uh Brian batis from the Bulldogs he was there Jacko Steve Jackson was there and there were there were others you know there was yeah there were certainly others that I can't quite remember but um so anyway uh so I assume the decision was made that um I would be able to do the preseason with the Raiders and uh we I don't know whether it was the first Troll game or whether it was the second one but we played a tra game in 88 against parata at see it over and in that game Brent Todd uh was picked up and driven into the ground and he broke his arm remember it well yeah and so um that was the turning point I think in my entire footy career because I don't I I I assume um that um in fact it was the first one because the second one we played the Broncos in Brisbane uh and so if tody hasn't didn't break his arm maybe I was you know sent back to the blues or whatever I don't know but anyway so um exactly so we played param then we went up to Brisbane and played um played uh the Broncos in a trial game I I remember playing Reserve grade and then I think I got a run in first grade and um uh so I think I think 88 was the first year that we they changed the rules about um um your bench so I think 88 was the first year that you could have fresh Reserves right and so um uh uh so I was a fresh Reserve in round one right I was a fresh Reserve in round two I think that and anyway in round three we played South Sydney at seit overal and shiny named me to start and that was the first time I started a game for the Raiders and did he I mean I don't expect you to remember any conversations but was how was sheny in that were you kind of you know what I mean was their extra motivation because cuz as we know he was a almost a classic journeyman front row with a lot of experience as we know was that a part of the the relationship that maybe um I think he had a sof spot for me you know I think you know he's probably saw a lot of himself in me I'm not I'm sure a young guy that's you know trying to make it trying to make a career out of front row and stuff like that but I do remember the the night uh that was announced um I went out we still at sou in those days and uh so I ran out onto the field and Sammy big Sam backer called me over and he said you know congratulations said stick with me son I'll make you a star you know I think I might have even quoted that in the book and if we because in saying about you know slam and Sam Sam beo and one of the players on the bench Terry ran and they to say the least different styles of players and indeed even bills just let's let's do the easy one first it was Terry Regan Terry Regan and interestingly I played a bit of cricket with Terry least against him and he was no different on the cricket field it seems to how he was on the football field really but there was something extreme about him that in some ways summed up the early period of the Raiders do you know what I mean that they were able yeah he was he was a perfect fit for the Raiders I me we all energy he could tell us yeah he was and we were just um we were still a country team and I think that was part of our uh um you know that that was part of the reason why we really enjoyed playing at the Raiders because you know we weren't in the middle of param or you know Manley or or St George we were just we were playing in the uh in the um yeah the top competition but we were still in CRA you know queenan and you know which gave it room if I'm not wrong for a bit of eccentricity do you know what I mean a bit of looseness on the edges which is a good thing country footy that's right I mean we're always all footy teams and things are going to experience you know players doing the wrong thing at certain times and things but um it was more tongue and cheek stuff you know well Society I think or the you know the the public of camber and queen and sort of you know just ah footballers being footballers and stuff like that where in Sydney it was you know front page and anyway it it was just a nice feeling around it was um it wasn't as wasn't as serious well I don't know cuz I haven't I didn't play in any uh with any clubs in Sydney but you know it was what I'm sure fans um appreciate but there was a lot of locals playing for the Raiders lot of Raiders playing in Ricky Stewart always talks about that you know how much the attraction was so if we accept Terry rean as a almost a classic accentric but of course he was pretty damn good on the field he was a very good footballer very good footballer and he um tough as nails but there was no nonsense about him you know I I would love to have seen Terry play origin right I reckon he cuz he would be he would absolutely he would have fitted that to a te he would um and of course we know all the stories about him where he you know he may have had one or two more drinks than what he should he had a lawmar business and yeah stories there yeah all that sort of thing and then of course putting headgear on and cutting the hair that was sticking out so of course after the game he took the headgear off he had P but you know that it was no nonsense so you know that doesn't look just just cut it you know I you know I don't Veer away from what I'm going to do on the fo0 field so he was and he was a wonderful character have around the club and things like that yeah just and I mean given his you know how important that was and and the Raiders from 1982 had had played you know I me as you say the locals but that sort of player as well as quality player you know as the players in in in with just football skills but let's just shift that to Samy Becker um you know you've talked a number of times about about influence of s can you tell us a bit about that well I just think he's very underrated he's not certainly um you know we've had some wonderful front rowers since Samy's career ended but um I I uh I've never seen a front rail break the line as much as him I just felt and he he was very quick for a big man um and uh he could tackle he could do all he could he he could do everything and um I I I you know when we talk about you know the front rilers of the ' 80s and '90s and things like that he's certainly got to be up there he uh he was a wonderful player and you know a lot of the you I'd take a hit up and then he'd take the next one and sure enough he'd break the line and off he'd run and get us out of trouble he'd get you know sometimes he would make the TR line but a lot of times he would be tackled and of course you know Mal and uh the boys you know would um take over and finish it off you know he he was uh he was a very very good front row and um and I know he's I know he's uh not in perfect health at the moment so we all wish him the best obviously but um he uh he was a good front row partner let me tell you and I had I've had a I had a few very good front row Partners in my career but he's certainly up there um not not the best roomy in the world but but on the point about that for what just he was he was different you he prepared differently he uh one of the things I can remember very distinctively about Sam was um we were playing the goal coas Giants I think they were named yeah back then and we were playing them all up there and as soon as he got into into the room he'd ring up room service and order a fisherman's basket brought up to the room and things like that so you know he he was he wasn't you know he wasn't worried about his carbo loading and he wasn't worried about this he he just played and and look and some of the greatest rugby league players of all time just played like they played it in the bushore at home and what's in front of you the old story and he was one of those guys what what about just to go another part of that the the front rowers craft uh what just in that dimension of the game hugely important especially for the front rowers was Sam helpful there for you as well do you know what I mean in absolutely well he was um yeah absolutely so um it was something that I experienced later in my career you know I was the older front row as was coming to the end of my career and of course you know I had younger front rowers playing with me and yeah you do you're not not you know sit him down and talk to them about it but in conversations you know on the bus or in an airplane or whatever yeah you feel as though you have a you're sort of you're a bit of a helicopter parent you know what I yeah you do you you do absolutely you do and Sam in his own way um I'm sure he kept eye at on for me and uh um you again in ' 88 Tim Sheen will tell you to this day he felt 88 was the the year that he felt we could have won the competition and um he felt that um that 93 I think they were two years that that that that got away but uh so um so uh Samy um and why just on that why didn't we win in 88 do you know what I mean like what um 88 game had a lot of young guys a lot of young local guys uh just starting out their representative careers and and um just starting to uh you know make their mark on the game and um maybe we just we were just too young game short to go any better I remember we played a semi-final I think it was it might have been the game to get into the Grand Final against the Bulldogs played b m at um Sydney football stadium and it actually hiled and it really put a R feeling about the game and I think yeah look b m a pretty hot side too I mean we just yeah I just don't know again 87 uh I don't know I don't I can't put my finger on why but 80 uh you know 88 was again a pretty good year for the for the Raiders but um it just wasn't meant but you hit the nail I mean you know what talent was sort of you know what I mean just improving improving their game you know it's just extraordin so let's go to very important year in the in the history of this club 1989 uh which doesn't start uh as well as one might have thought after 88 um what was happening in that early part of the season oh look I think it's like most when you have you know you have you got to convince yourself as individuals to put in the hard work as much hard work even more you know and you got to be you got to want have incentives and you got to you know you want want the um you know you just you got to I guess convince yourself that you you want to put in as much and train as much is lives change away from footy so players get married have kids whatever um change jobs we're still sort of working fulltime here was there a turning point in the season that you can remember a turning point when gears shifted or just happened organically as it were yeah I I don't know I don't know um I'm I'm not sure I couldn't couldn't tell you but um yeah I don't know I just um maybe maybe maybe us younger BLS just got that experience you know um enough and and uh knew what it took to the be successful I don't know but um uh one part of that if we can say one part of that uh kind of that that second half of the season and I've had a bit of a look at the Sydney papers I remember you know what I was doing the book and as you might recall there was a very strong sense and indeed all of Sydney wanted to have a bain souths yeah Bain South Grand Final um and uh the the Raiders were really were the the flying the well yeah and of course uh we we uh came um we came in fourth I think it was um and of course in those days it was a different system was only a top five and no team I don't think had won it from fourth or fifth um so we came in at fourth uh expected to uh bow out um and as you say that South Sydney that year were certainly the team it was a really interesting year cuz it was very wet year and South Cy handled it really well so uh um so we went in at Fourth and people were giving us no hope in in in hell to do anything yeah yeah so we're in we're in you know 1989 uh you know what a year was that uh and we're in the slow buildup to what many people still regard as the greatest Grand Final ever uh there are a few contenders now uh one thinks of the Grand Final only a few weeks ago but 1989 holds up extraordinarily well as I talked about in the book but as we know it was it was a season when for a good part of it uh it couldn't have been anticipated by the Sydney scribes but perhaps the Sydney teams by cam Barons that it was going to be a route through to the Grand Final um and the but the switch starts to to to to get flicked at some stage late in the season if there's not a sort of a key moment what was the feeling amongst the players again in in in the run that looked like it was going to sort of go into the semifinals was there a feeling that this that that this could be the one you know what what what was the team feeling it certainly wer thinking about this could we could win the comp you know at that early stage cuz we have to throw in there you know all of a sudden he's expecting sou and B and they're too Ser you know on paper they are too seriously good teams yeah tell us um so we we ended up uh coming fourth and there was there were so krala and Brisbane tied for fifth so they in those days they had to play a midweek game um and so Brisbane uh had to travel to Sydney and um I can remember sitting at the queenb Le Club watching the game with the team um and uh um canala won so we knew who we playing uh on the weekend and uh I think um we were just I think and I experienced this when I was playing at Melbourne that the scribes or the so-called experts didn't give us a hope in Hell of doing anything because we weren't all representative players we weren't all you know we just started playing some red footy and and things like that I just I honestly and because they looked at the B Main and I'll get to um you know on the day of the Grand Final but you know they looked at Bain's forward pack and their backs and you got Internationals from England and South CIA got this really mean pack of forwards and they got some and so they looked at up and yeah they just didn't take it seriously I don't think and genuinely those two packs they were serious packs by anyone absolutely yeah um and so and we took some really good form into the semi-finals like we're winning our games we we're playing really well and and again we were just and we were very close net team uh players we're um you know we very close um as in regards to um a team environment and um and so yeah we uh we went down to Sydney and we we managed to beat canala which meant that we um uh had to play I think it was South C the next week and uh b m uh were waiting for the winner to uh play in the Grand Final and you know we we beat beat South Sydney and not to put too fine a point on it you were the player of the game as I recall in that particular fixture yeah I I look yeah that's great I mean I I just the fact that we'd won and all you know was wonderful um we and I mean self-evidently you're feeling like you belong was there something that was happening in your game that was you do know what I mean taking you forward at that you know more were you're more than believing now do you know what I mean absolutely we were just yeah we were just um look I I don't personally remember thinking of anything else except just the next week and the fact that we're playing really well and and and I think a lot of people didn't realize how good we were playing we're beating quality sides in Sydney we're traveling all the time and we're winning winning games and um and I can say the young players have taken that step up absolutely and and and 89 is another year you know of experience with these young BLS so um world primed you know and um we're up against it of course against a very very good Bain side and um very well coached by Warren Ryan and uh you know yeah we're up against it but yeah we were I can vividly remember being in Sydney staying at the cown travel lodge and we had our last training session at Hansen Park and you you couldn't you couldn't you couldn't stop you we were like kids you know I can remember Tony and I you know soon as you want to do a scrum set of six from a scrum and we'd run over there and we' be you know let's go you know it was just we were just so you know you on a high because you know the the club was doing well and it was all because we're winning you know and we were very CL the community I mean I can I can speak to that part of it you know the community in 89 was something really speci was great that it was Cam and queenan do you know what I mean something fantastic about that as well um you know camera got pulled into that but when well ' 87 but certainly in ' 89 the whole the you know was it just it was just enormous yeah and inantly I'm saying that but uh and I happened to would be I was in Mississippi for the whole year and I might even get you I was at un teaching at University so I actually missed the season other than having the constant flow which goes to what you're saying of family friends telling me all you know what's been happening so it was it was happening it was amazing it was it was really but let's get to the big game let's get to let's get to the GF 1989 um I've talked about it in the book we know about Father John Wood's note to Mel you know there's something almost you know something spiritual involved in that um and they really was there um let's just go to that was there any hint of a sort of feeling of Destiny amongst the playing group or was it just we can we you know we've got the capacity we play our best we can do it yeah I I don't know whether it's because I'm not I'm not a road scholar I think but I I don't remember yeah thinking about that I I just one gu just living living in the moment yeah I was living in the moment you know we we um we went down to Sydney a couple of days before as I said and we trained the day before and um we woke up on Sunday morning the day of the game and um you know the newspapers would had been put outside the door and we you brought them in and we're reading them and um and all we were reading about was how bm's for pack we going to just dominate us and that's where they all going to win the game and stuff so um to say that was motivation in itself is an understatement but you know I could I looked over and I was rooming with toddy Brent to and you know you could you could just see it in his eyes that he was getting motivated you know because football is football yeah exactly I mean you wake up on a Sunday morning with the biggest day in your life as a footballer um and uh all you're reading is how how they're going to beat us they're going to run over the top of you as a individual and as a forward pack you know anyway so yeah we went got to the game and and I say I've always said that Sydney is just a wonderful place in Spring uh Grand final day even even I mean back in those days all the semi-finals are in Sydney just a wonderful place to be the place is buzzing but uh going yeah going to the game and seeing the you know the lime green and gold and white uh Flags everywhere and the amount of support we had was unbelievable and uh um yeah hugely special what about so let's before we get to the back end of the game um and and obviously those last moments of of regular time and then and and then the extra time as the game progressed was there was it a again just sort of almost getting down to the business or was there a a growing confidence you know what was happening amongst the the Raider playing group I mean and and with particular reference to the guess the forward CL yeah but we were just you know the game was very it wasn't I mean they scored though at Hal time they're leading by 10 or 12 points but the tries they scored you know one was from an intercept yeah and the other one was from a ridiculous bounce of a football you know nearly hitting the sideline but then bouncing in infield and big Z well ended up scoring and stuff but um presumably Sheen in fact I know he did half time do you know know what I mean we're right in this yeah yeah that's right I mean in fact I do remember thinking I was a little disappointed which um I was quickly reminded about not I was quickly uh Mal sort of made sure that no one was thinking negative about anything because we were we were playing as well as them if not better you know but um they've had they had a couple of opportunities uh presented to them they took them but um so you know at half time yeah I don't remember a lot about the the the talk at half time but you know we were we were confident we weren't being you know we weren't being getting over the top of you know we were holding our own and we were well and truly in the game um and the thing I I think um is that we didn't change anything we just continued you know to work hard for each other and and and play uh the way we were in the first half and then things started changing as far as opportunities you know um you know there was Bulls boy belmain at certain times that gave us opportunities to score points and so forth um and there's obviously a couple of incidents where you know Benny Elias hitting the crossbar with a field goal which probably would have won on the game um there was an ankle tap by m on uh the redhead yeah uh and you know so there were incidents throughout the game where uh things could have changed but uh didn't um and you got it you know every time we hear it you've got to have that little you know stick always talks about every coach you got to have that little bit of luck the Raiders that little bit of luck you got to be good enough to to to act on it I suppose you know people ask these kinds of questions of of of the likes of yourself all the time but when chica got that ball out wide and did what he does you know what he'd been doing for for years that step step step that must have been extraordinary well yeah and of course you know people remember the tribe but leading up to that we were playing good footy to get ourselves in position you know like so as the game got older we were getting better we were starting to come over the top of them a lot of people think you know that um you know taking s uh yeah Siro and blocker off was probably and it probably was a mistake but um you know you can't read the future that's and that's cuz the we were on you know as you say we were on top like the for and I think at that stage Warren Ry as though they just needed to defend the lead and and whether that was put the tack a good thing or not who knows but at the end of the day we were getting momentum uh certainly was turning in our favor and um and we're playing some good foot we got down there and we had a couple of opportunities to score tries which we did and of course you know m still out to kick the goal and all this sort of thing and uh and he's a and he's a top toe paker so you know unbelievable so and he never whenever he had a pressing kick I just have to throw it in there entire career when as a pressure kick as a tow poker black dot straight over it was like a New Zealand kicker in rugby you know when it was a big kick he he he did it all the time and he did it there which takes us to fulltime can you do you have memories any of what was said at at uh I don't have a lot of memories about what was said within the pack within the team and the coaches but um I do remember vividly when the Saum went for the 80 minutes to be up I looked up and you know there was one pissed down on his hunches yeah you know Ben Elias was Sting sitting on the ground they were you know you could just see the the disappointment in their eyes and we were gathering momentum and I do remember thinking oh jeez you know we just have to you know I think we're a good chance here you know so um so in those days uh it was 10 minutes each way and Sullivan for memory yeah it was 10 minutes each way I think if it still ended up in a draw we would have back yeah as they had done not that long absolutely so um uh Gary Jack dropped the ball um and so we have a scrum 5 or 10 m out from from their Tri line and of course uh Sul chriso salivan wants to kick a field goal Angel is call that was a call Angel was a call Angel was a call um and and according to the story might have been even overcall don't yes that's right there was certainly uh some uh opposition towards it cuz we felt you know we go for the try um you know and try and get six points would be a lot better than just the one y but um so he got his way which is fine and he kicked the field goal um which put us in front um and it's interesting you talk about body language cuz and I've only watched the game about a 100 times but the body language after that so that you know to sort of make it that the call he had to kick it of course to make it the right call have to say that well that's right so he's putting a lot of pressure on himself and of course if he misses it massive massive pressure you know things change and anyway so he kicked it and um it's pretty much it I you tell me like it was almost like that was the you know bman was shot yeah I think it would have deflated him somewhat you know um but anyway so we managed to uh get through that first 10 minutes and then um the second one came around and of course shy made some uh some Replacements and he brought Stu Jackson on and the rest of history um just a you know Wonderful try that um will stand the test of time yeah yeah yeah is you know so what about him tell us a little bit about well jacko's again just a typical guy from the north of Queensland just no nonsense about him he just uh he had wonderful ball skills as well um and a wonderful guy um he's done down on it a bit Yeah Yeah fair enough too I think I think fair enough you know um you know unfortunately um I think after that year he went off to Western soers um and played there but um yeah a great guy of course you him and I were sort of a little had a little rivalry going cuz you know he was a front ril young front rower coming through and say I was I so but um look at the end of the day I assume we're still very good I don't get to speak to Jacko much anymore but um yeah anyway so he scores a try um but it's so didn't end there because M missed the goal yeah you if he kicks the goal we're seven in front we're home and hose but being five in front there was still yeah an opportunity for the for Bain to come back but you know thankfully they didn't and we went on and won camera's first uh Grand Final and the the impact as we know across the the region you have to say sort of thing was was unbelievable and it and it continued and it continues but that you know just I suppose in terms of and we'll move on to 99 but in terms of the the aftermath I can only think that for the players in particular it was almost dreamlike to have done it in those circumstances yeah uh under the circumstances which still get held up as as as making it the greatest Grand Final ever um yeah amazing to have been a part of yeah absolutely and again because it was with you know like Ricky Ricky Stewart played with my brother at the blues you know um so I i' known Ricky since he was this high and we you know we can't we came together and and with a group of wonderful men we we we won Cam's first Grand Final you know um it was unbelievable and I can remember landing at cber airport and uh just yeah just the Euphoria people everywhere just uh it was amazing and it was almost a classic thing because as you say you got the the sprad of queenslanders and that was you know in spite of itself but locals Regional players you know right around which was you know really added to you know making it special pulling pulling those kinds of you know those communities around the region into the story which yeah absolutely well you know Lori was from Jun came to the Raiders I think as a 16y old um you know there was me from queenan RI Ricky Stewart from Queen man cudy from Bell Conan Chris Sullivan from Bell Conan mdy wood from out Bell con why you know just Paul Martin he was involved you know Wen Valley guy I think you know just yeah and um it was just again you know uh just the sense of you know uh a bunch of locals and a few queenslanders came together and just you know showed Sydney what it's all about basically it was um very very uh satisfying and and just yeah I mean I think back at the night after the game and uh the people at queenan leags club and Raiders and morson and things like that it was just just one to see the look on their faces and and of course we know that that that that with sort of consumate I won't say ease but sort of consumate talent were able to take that that sort of euphoria into a terrific 1990 season um I can only feel in the team in the coaching staff there was sort of great confidence going into season 1990 um did you in what ways did you feel that was different to the '89 was was the squad able to settle down post the euphoria well I think so because we won the preseason competition um we beat penth I think in the preseason competition in 1990 so we hit the ground running um and we won the Minor Premiership um we faltered at the uh in the first round of semi-finals but um we got back on on board and uh went on and won won the Grand Final it was a bit more it was lot it was certainly a lot more difficult to win the 90 than it was '89 yeah um because very good side that you play you know yeah yeah well we well the up yeah I'm talking about the whole year I know we I know we won the Minor Premiership and all that but um we're always the yard stick of course and everyone wanted to beat when you win a competition this is why you know what penth has done over the last couple years um you know is such an achievement yeah because everyone wants to everyone plays their best game against you you know and so you have to be at your best for the whole year and we were from day one you know we uh we had a couple of hiccups throughout the year but at the end of the day uh our consistency held up and um we managed to uh you know come first win the minor Premiership and go on to win the Grand Final and um uh whilst it was just as good as winning well maybe it wasn't because 89 was the first one you 90 was very satisfying to win back to back lot good good teams do that and um I think that we were a very good side and we will get to 91 but you know it could have even sort of got you know in in in normal circumstances it might have gone to that to those three but that's that leave leave that aside just for the moment before we say a bit more about 9090 can I just take you back fractally I'm right in saying I believe that in that euphoric 1989 season you debuted in state of origin yep now you're you you became one of the one of the greats of state of origin but can I can we just dwell on that for a moment you know we'll stay with the the club stuffff or back to it in in a sec but state of origin what did you what were your first thoughts about state of origin well as I said I mean I experienced my only experience of origin was watching it and um grew to hate Queensland because you know we didn't win a series till 95 or uh 85 yeah something like that and um um but my memory of my first era origin game was uh I was I started on the bench toughest job in in rby League coming off the bench in origin cuz you don't there's no room for you know just you know working your way into the game it's speak to ni hind yeah and the game is very fast and they've all got their second wind and you you haven't all that sort of but I was sitting on the bench and I can remember you know cuz in those days Lang Park still had The Terraces where they're just all standing and and all that and just you know beer cans are being thrown and people were been own beer k at who had a New South Wales jumper on and it was just and I just said what the hell have I got myself into here you know um who was the coach New South Wales coach um I think it was uh who was it um was it Tim I I don't know I don't think I just I shouldn't remember well yeah g yeah yeah anyway so um well it might have been uh it might have been Jack Gibson no no no anyway anyway New South Wales lost a series um I played the first game and then I got dropped for the remain of the other two um anyway yeah but it was uh it was certainly a very I opening thing to experience that level of footy in Queensland you I mean they many footy they just unbelievable then of course later on I used to drive the bus down Kon Street and I've seen one to many uh Queensland backsides yeah cuz they're all mooning you as you went past and throwing beer at you and all this sort of thing so um yeah what about on the field that is to on the field on the field you just inity your lungs are screaming you know 2 minutes into your stint and your lungs are screaming cuz the game is just so much quicker so much you know you got the you got the cream of the crop playing these games and uh you know both States wanting to to win the game it's um correct to say in your opinion as you hear all the time or read all the time the hardest football you ever play yeah yeah I it definitely is because while you got the cream of the crop playing each other um you're under pressure from a lot of more I mean you know you're under pressure playing for the Raiders because you know you the Raiders fans want you to win and of course you know your teammates and all that want you to win the club wants to win but um New South Wales and Queensland have grown this hatred um that uh was instilled many years ago um and of course the state of New South Wales or New South Wales supporters want you to win which is a bigger fan base obviously than Club um and it affects so many different people you know um you know Gus ghou who was my coach through predominately through my uh origin career um one year there um spoke about how many people relying on you to play well in origin and hopefully win you know and um you know then there's no better example than my father you know my father was um as I said a sheirer he he was a very simple man he worked all his life all that sort of thing he spent time in Gin orphanage uh as a young kid um and you know he worked at the at the council here in CRA for 20 30 years or whatever it was and um and of course you know uh his son's playing state of origin so um he's very proud of that um and so it affects him what happens what the results are and uh you know he would uh walk into uh you know into the building um to start his uh his night shift and all his colleagues would be there and if we'd won they'd all be you know wanting to talk to him and tell him how wonderful it was and Pat him on the back but of course if we lost you know he would be he would be the brunt of um you know being asked why and you know all the negativity you know so it really affected dad you know and so yeah so did he talk about it with you h no not really did Dad wasn't much of a talker he just kept himself yeah but you know he used to wear his his us have W's hat to work and things like that but um so whilst I was elated that we'd won you know I I would dad'll be happy to go to work tonight you know that's the sort of thing and that's that's what I think's missing now you know I don't know whether anyway I don't want to get on New South Wales or anything but um yeah I just think that [Music] um uh that's a big part of the reason why New South Wales playing state of origin you know I mean Queensland is a very passionate about it um I lived up there for 30 years played with the the NRL side the Broncos I know how they tick when it comes to uh football and they they I mean I play for the Broncos but when I was in the midst of a state of origin series no one would talk to me like like locals neighbors wouldn't talk to me you know um that's how passionate they are about it you know so we need to get back to being as passionate they sort it's interesting I mean historically of course for all the reasons we know Queensland got the jump on it do you know what I mean of of claiming the passion thing um and it's never really changed there have been moments for New South Wales but you're quite right it's interesting talking about your dad f because that's that's the kind you know as one has been reading about it in in recent weeks about the the most recent state of origin that there are certain things go on there are certain players made for state of origin certain players not you know all that and it does go it's you know that it finds its way into mining other elements yeah you know be they family be they personality you know and you could go on and on not to mention of course What's happen field when it comes to origin there are two types of rugby league player ones that can play play ones that are suited to origin ones that aren't yeah yeah and um yeah it's we go back to uh Terry ran he would have suited origin he would have he would have reveled in it you know it would have been almost the you saying about the bench and how hard it is almost the c a guy you could if you wanted to change the game if you wanted to change the content of the game you would put Terry Ragan on for sure yeah yeah so 1990 um uh you've uh the well let's let's let's first of all talk about the kangaroos you get chosen in the 19990 kangaroos well I was very lucky in 90 that I I managed to there was um Centenary test match in New Zealand it was some celebration um they uh played the Wes played the the All Blacks and then we played we played on the Sunday over there okay um and I was picked to play on the bench for that so that was my first taste of international footing um and um it was really a wonderful experience you know um and again the way things have changed see the the the the competition kept going yeah so they pulled the the the guts out of the Raiders and all these other clubs but they still have to play the following week so um and um anyway so we played that um and we'll sort of I was sort of told unofficially that you know if you got chosen in that side and you kept your form up you're probably going to get chosen for the kangaroo site uh touring team and of course um I'd asked my now wife to um marry me uh and uh we were getting married on the 29th of September 1990 right um and so um once uh we realized that it was a chance that I was going to be uh chosen for the 990 kangaroo tour um which left on the 30th of September right um we were sort of I'm whether we should but my wife and I agreed that we should go on with it get you know continue with the thing and so we won the Grand Final and a week later I got I got married and um so it was a big year for for me 990 um and uh we got married at the hiding camera and the following morning I threw my suitcases into a uh taxi and went to the airport and off I went life's not fair no it's not so the 199 Kangaroos and you've told us about your background to that uh I'm not sure whether you go away with a happy with a happy smiley face or not but you go on that tour I guess the first question the obvious one is um how uh what was the experience of International Football like against state of origin and and I guess Grand Final football yeah look it wasn't as intense but it was certainly a a high quality footy you know test matches and they had the Great Britain side that was very good in those you in those days I mean on yeah they had a lot of good players you know winning must be said yeah Hillary Hanley and Martin AES you know um uh yeah and um Gary scoffield these sorts of guys you know and then they had they always have had Fairly tough upstanding sort of front uh forward packs so um yeah I was obviously very excited about going over there um uh it was it was a really interesting concept and unfortunately it'll never I don't think it'll ever be done again where you go over and you play Club sides midweek and then you end them in weekends and then you play three tests uh in amongst that you know it's a it's a the the tour is a 10 week process and you spent eight weeks in England then you go to France for two weeks and um uh and so uh you know your first game our first game was against Wigan which apparently uh was always the any kangar tour was always against wig cuz that's when they felt that they might have a chance of beating us yep but anyway so for sure so we um we're actually up not up against it but we had a bit of pressure on us as a touring party because the the invincibles were what year before or they hadn't lost a game for a couple of Tours you know so anyway so um we played two or three Club games before the first test at um Wembley and um and it was really good i r with blocker who I became very close with and uh you know he was a great roomy for for eight weeks and and I always say that um I spent my honeymoon with with blocker uh eating ice cream and watching WWE on telly with him and stuff like that but anyway um so uh blocker and Martin Bella were the front rowers and so so um when the test team first test team was picked I was on the bench and um you experiencing Wembley for the first time packed house um walking out on on the uh the the oval and and things like that was just amazing um and unfortunately we got we were beaten um as I said by a very good England team um and so uh we so then there were a couple of weeks before the second test so we played a couple of um couple of Club games and one particular Club game in fact it was the last Club game before the second test and before the second test team was announced we're playing Castleford at Castleford and um uh I decided to headbutt um Mark MC's knee in a tackle obviously accidentally yeah and he split uh my forward right down into the eyeball and um it was quite a nasty nasty thing but luckily uh in that particular year um was we broke to well so we broke tradition in 90 we were based in Manchester the rugby league wanted to try and promote rugby league in Manchester every other kangaroo tour and the ones after that were it leads always it leads but we're in Manchester and on this uh particular year 1990 uh by Bob Fulton as we know was the coach of the side and he brought Johnny Lewis the famous boxing trainer Mario not Mario Jeff Fenix um trainer with us and so he um was able to uh come up with a a like a guard so I got announced as the starting front row on the second test and there was I got about 20 odd stitches in my forehead uh going down into the eye socket and um Johnny made this little it's actually visible I think we can yeah so he made it so I laid on the the table and he would um there was this spray that he would put on gals and he kept putting layer after layer on it and literally made a in the end it was a little hard guard that was sitting in there and then tape around it and then of course the the head gear right the where you and we were playing the second test at old Old Trafford um famous ground obviously where Manchester United play and of course that was the the Test match that we if we lose that we lose the series for the first time in you know a decade and so um it came down one of the most famous tries that almost have it as number one but C was amazing anyway so we won that thankfully and then went on and maybe you better just briefly describe it can we well I went through about 20 OD different hand I think I played the ball and then went through about 20 different hands Ricky managed to get through um and then uh Big M took over coming off in Big M took over and uh over he went and that secured the uh the uh it was the last minutes yeah it was it was not much time to go no we did we left it to the death to to win the game um and then we went on and played Ellen Road uh which is where Le soccer club play and we that was comfortable wasn't it well yeah it wasn't as yeah it was it was still a tough game but we managed to win so that was great and then we went on on to France and and went over there had some wonderful thing I met Kevin Cosner in uh in France yeah it was wonderful yeah so anyway so uh it was a great great year for me uh 990 and it finished off really well um uh we won the the test series and came home and um and I was obviously a a newly married man and settled into into married life and um and and yeah and uh uh of course um as uh 1990 came to a close uh there were Rumblings about um Financial issues within the club in regards to salary caps and things like that and uh of course that um that um gathered momentum uh were the club was investigated and found to be over the salary cap and which meant then that all uh player contracts were null and void and had to be all Ren neate it um and look I mean what would if I can say just to pause just for one moment so and if people wanted it in the absolutely bleeding green book they can read about the sort of you know the everything that was going on there guess I'm interested in I'm sure viewers will be in in the the personal impact for you that led to the decisions that you made at that time do you want to T on that sorry I was getting ahead of so so 1990 was finished that was great 1991 I would regard as being one of my poorer years uh performance-wise on the footy field um again got chosen on the bench Tim Tim was the coach of the New South W side I got picked on the bench we got beaten so I was dropped and never played again that year um I lost my test spot in the test Series against New Zealand in Australia um and I about and it was when I looked back on the year um I think it was a blessing in disguise that I received a serious chest injury um where my chest my sternum was broken and um had to have surgery on it which kept me out for 8 weeks so I think you played with the guard when you came didn't you so I had a big chest guard on and all that sort of thing and yeah so I came back for the last competition game which was against St George at um um now we were playing at well CRA Stadium now um and uh and then um I played uh a couple of semi-finals Off the Bench and then I started in the 91 Grand Final unfortunately for the club I mean penrith were a very good side and I certainly don't want to take away but we we were really busted I think Ricky and and Lori were was a hamstring Ricky was crook um I certainly came back a a lot bigger than what overweight and stuff like that anyway so in the end you know we were beaten and then of course the Rumblings were going on about financial troubles uh we were investigated as a club and found that we were over the S caps which made our contracts null and void at that particular time um we just I just had uh my first child with my with my wife and and um you know things just weren't I don't know I don't know what it was but um and I remember Tim saying to me I that he picked me as the player that would struggle in 91 because of all the success that me personally and of course the team had in 90 um and it came to fruition I had a very poor year um and I think that was a part of the reason why I left the Raiders um my personal life was was okay there was some issues um that I don't want to get into but um I don't know whilst I don't want to say it felt right but um you know I it was it was certainly uh there was certainly um a couple of reasons why I could move um but of course back in those days they had uh a draft and so um so it wasn't a matter of you know negotiating with a club and going to a club you you actually had to go onto the draft and if the the club was prepared to pay what you're asking you had to go to them so um I've i' never had a team player manager or never did have a player manager um I um uh came in contact with a guy Gordon Duffy's name is um still lives in camera he uh um he was uh involved in the in the in law in the law industry um as a law Clerk or something he was and um he was happy to sort of be my representative um and so he was talking with other clubs and at that time South Sydney and parata uh both told him that if um so he was a s Sydney supporter and uh he was uh very keen for me to get us Sydney I said look I don't want to live in uh Sydney I've never ever want to live in Sydney anyway so um the Broncos Came Calling and uh and of course the draft was in so John Rebo um spoke Chris Johns and John Rebo John Rebo was the was the um the guy and um and so all the clubs talked to each other about this this and that and um he said um the issue that we've got if you want to come to the Broncos is the parameter in South um are adamant that if you're available though one of them will take you and in the draft in the draft so um so we'll sort of was all a bit hesitant at the time but um uh I was very lucky that a young guy playing for western suburbs at the time wanting to go to Eastern suburbs uh Terry Hill yeah um had the same predicament and so he took took it to court and uh the draft was uh deemed null and void and so it was open Slayer so that gave me um yeah clear passage to go to the Broncos you know I mean because at this stage whil I had a bad year with the Raiders in in ' 91 um I I'd experienced some wonderful times with them and I wanted to experience that again so going to the Broncos I believed that they were they were going to win competitions uh in the very near future and so and I obviously knew Kevy and the other Bronco players that were on the 9090 kangaroo tour so I had a bit of an affiliation there and of course Wayne being the coach um and having been coached by him in ' 87 so it was a comfortable fit for me I mean I like I I'm a queen being kid never lived anywhere else except camon que so it was a big decision but of course um it's easy to make those decisions when you have a very supportive wife and she's been my biggest fan and supporter throughout my entire life not entire life but certainly my Football Life um and Beyond um so um we decided that um yeah we would go to the to Brisbane and uh and that's where the Broncos I mean you know time slowly but surely getting away from us a little so if we look at your stints uh in Brisbane um and in Melbourne uh the significance of there are numerous areas of significance but one of them definitely is that you were a part of the first premise ship of each of the three clubs you are unique in in in rugby league history in this country because you're the only player ever to have won competitions with three separate clubs um since they came in the order after the Raiders to Brisbane and then to Melbourne with entirely different situations it must be said that are obvious to I'm sure to to the viewers of this um what how would you sum up the experience of in in Brisbane and in Melbourne I'm sure they were different and in what ways different yeah well one of the things I I I made the um comparison to was uh you know the first day I arrived at the Broncos I did more interviews than I did in five years or six years at the Raiders right um and it sort of dawned on me that you know on Mal or you know Gary belter or you know one of these senior you know quality players that were at camera now I'm you know the focus because um a lot was being set up there that the Broncos won't win a grand final until they get a quality front ra and of course you know sort of truism in the game well yeah I but they're always going to win comps it was just a matter of sure but um you know I um I was supposedly the Great White Hope and you know I came up there and and I do remember when we won the comp in now very first first year I was there was a very uh a sense of um uh uh relief you know that I hadn't you delivered yeah I delivered or you know I helped deliver a grand final to the Broncos you know but um from the moment I got there you know um the players and the and the staff and the front office were all wonderful um and that's the common theme through the three clubs I was at um you know a lot of people talk about fish rotting from the head and all this sort of thing um front officers coaching staffs players fans were all Top Knots you know top top of the cream cream of the crop yeah when it came to the clubs that I played with and um you know yeah and so um it you the Broncos it it was it was bigger than the Raiders uh in regards to the support Bas you know I mean the whole state it was the whole state um you know and uh it was yeah it was amazing the obvious question on that is was the private life any different because of the uh yeah it was celebrity yeah absolutely yeah absolutely yeah um difficult or okay um it was okay some of it was uh you know intrusive yeah um but um no it was okay it was good the people generally fans are pretty good there was one or two that that um you know don't give you your space but you know that comes with the job I know I read when I was doing a little bit of reading for this thatth you had a newspaper column that was a part of yeah that did did you write it uh did I write it no I didn't I had it I was had a ghost riter um Steve rickets his name was yeah that um I didn't enjoyed as much as I it was yeah I don't know I mean I got I got um yeah sometimes my words were twisted and it's not not necessarily Steve's fault but you know there were a couple of times there where I looked at I picked up the paper on the Sunday and thought tricky business I've had experience of this you just you've construed that completely different than how I said it and you know a lot of it was just in the in the headline or the title of the story if I can say I have had experience it tone it's when it's when someone operating for you gets the tone wrong you know and and then and of course people pick up on that they pick up on it a word here a word there that would have been tricky that's why I did ask whether you'd written it for that very reason because if you got a ghost you know Ghost Writer that can lead to difficulty especially in a communities dwelling on every word yes that's right that's exactly right and it happens all the time and you know I don't want to touch on it all that much but you my political career uh the same thing you say one thing and they twist it but anyway yeah I I liked it and then I you know sometimes I didn't you know yeah so Glenn I mean I don't I'm not asking I haven't asked any one of these questions but it must be a wonderful part of your looking back on your well your background in the game as it were your legacy to contemplate playing for three clubs and winning Grand finals is that some you know but I mean what does one say is it a source of Pride you know oh absolutely I'm I mean I just whenever I go back to to the clubs I'm just so proud of um the clubs themselves I mean they're all three clubs that are um very successful uh and you know have been and are I I think you know the Raiders are on the verge of becoming um more successful and certainly the Broncos and Melbourne have been very consistent you know I um but if I go to Melbourne or if I go to the Broncos or I'm just so welcomed and I feel so proud that I've been a part of their history and and uh uh and so forth so um you know I I don't think about it often but people you know why me you know why why did I you know experience all this success well I've just been very lucky that I've had as I've said earlier just been exposed to so many wonderful people you know great um mentors and and uh you know influence that influenced me in the right way and um you a big part of the reason why I did what I did as a as a rugby league player was is that I met my wife when I did I I hadn't experienced first grade a lot before I met her and I just didn't want to let her down and and of course later on my you kids um but when I look back at the three clubs as I said I've said before um everyone at the club that was involved with those clubs had one goal and that was to win competitions that was to become successful the reason the mbour stormers is are as Su successful as what they are now 20 years 25 years later um is because uh they got the right people in at the right and they became Su successful straight away and they've continued on Craig B and the likes of Cameron Smith and Billy slers and things have just taken it to another level and it's interesting Glen that that each of the three in terms of the back room as you're saying you know sort of thing has been really successful in a different way a slightly different way you know it's interesting to look at the three well all all all you look at like John Rebo was the head of the Broncos and and Melman and he's a very successful man away from football yeah um you Jr has been successful away from footb football him and his father and and you know it just but they all just wanted to win footy games and they just wanted to win Grand finals and be successful um then there was no there's no you know deviating from that you know it was just all about winning um and we see today there's some clubs that are struggling and of course there's all these but the one thing the front office isn't working well and worried about their own jobs and all this thing um at no stage you know was there any uh doubt at um at the Raiders the Broncos and at the Mourne store good things were going to happen that there there was no doubt that that's what they wanted everybody was on the same page and um and you know you look at successful Club penth I think would say exactly the same thing now these days and you know it's just um and I was just so lucky to be exposed to all that you know I I look I contributed I did I did my bit but I mean it was obviously uh it was a club thing it was you know the fans and all that it was just yeah well I've got to I've got to pick up that point because I you know you you are being humble but it must be said uh you played your part you certainly did because you said earlier in the interview and when and league league people know this the grand finals are one uh you know with defense that that that clubs clubs can sort of work from defense out um it was no accident that you were in the three because uh that it you know defense is so important it comes back to what you were saying about almost tackling technique because you brought that in other skills but I mean that to each of those three teams and when you can Shore up defense the rest becomes you know the rest becomes something that can be done by the back front rowers front rowers have a very easy job in regards to what you actually do in in the sense that your thought process and your game plan so well I certainly did I just wanted to run as hard as possible and get down and play the ball quick so Ricky Stewarts and the Lori Dales could do their thing and in defense that rock area no one gets through there right and um and that's pretty much what I base my game on you know um uh one of the best feelings I ever got on a football field was you know running running the ball up getting it bouncing them up off the ground playing the football and watching chicken Ferguson or Matty wood or willly or Mick Hancock Marcus by or someone scoring in the corner or scoring a try because of you know maybe some the leadup work that that me and my fellow forwards did is helped these guys do that you know and and you know I don't know I just i' sometimes I played in games where I lost but because I felt as though I'd never hadn't let the boys down you know it the loss was hard to take but but when you do play poorly and you do lose you feel the next week's game can't come quick enough yeah yeah so um I mean whil whilst uh thinking about what your game plan is front row or being a front rower is fairly basic physically it's the it's the toughest job in the game you know and um and I don't know whether if you haven't played front row or you you haven't seen front rows go through the um the seasons um you know the amount of prepi is you have to do to get on the foot field each week it's I mean all football footballers have to do a lot of preparation but I think front rows and I'm being very biased obviously you know we we I think see the brunt of the the the collisions and and so forth so it takes a lot of effort to continually you know I me my last couple of years at the Melbourne storm I was forever on the physio table you know I'd have to you know I'm not a big stretch I didn't like stretch it still don't but I had to to be able to get out and get on the field and do my thing it's interesting you know once again a lot of League people have looked at American football and you know spent a bit of time there in in North America and it's interesting how the two games sort of American football and and League have a huge similarity and that is if you don't establish the physical presence in the middle you know what I mean in in the case of American football the running game you know that's got to work work before in fact passes are going to hit at the back and likewise with with with League it's the same it's going up in both defense and and as it were taking the ball forward so you've you've got that but that's the perfect segue for me because I lead my my next uh and first of the leading questions and that and that is uh best let's start there the best three front rowers you've played with or against uh look I played against so and with so many wonderful front rowers I'm not going to name a few names few I mean obviously you know Sammy Sam back out when I and Brent Todd at Cambra um you know Gavin Allen um in uh in Brisbane Andrew G uh and Rodney Hal Robbie Kars uh at Melbourne storm um you blocker roach uh I'm a big fan of I thought he was a wonderful player um you know Paul harrian Ian Roberts uh Mark Sergeant the I mean you know I could sit here all day and just rattle them off and I thought I think through the ' 80s and 90s there was just this wonderful crop of front rilers that um I thought the game itself was very um uh you know fortunate to have you know there was just just a the list of names can just um you know and even people like um you D gpie and stuff played some front row and he's one of the toughest players I've ever ever played with that's the that's the perfect segue to my next question would be if you had to name one or two and I imagine cement glesby would be one of them who are those players who you didn't want to be tackled by that is to say the ones that left an impression uh on you beyond Dave Gillespie well I think you know um certainly Dean Lance in the Raiders days was a a guy that um I admired through his tackling press and Dave Gillespie I didn't play any club footy with him but certainly through origin and and test footy um I appreciate him being on my side I when I played against him I was certainly looking out for him Trevor gilm at the Broncos and Queensland and so forth you know he was very good uh technique um and yeah he used to bring you down but um they yeah I mean I I think if you play rugby league at the NRL level you are a very tough person in in your own sense and um you know even I look at Players like Alan Langer you know he's he's what would he be 5 foot nothing six or something like that um yeah probably weighs 75 kilos when he was a player and he was bringing down the Paul serin and the blockers and me and you know the bigger the so-called bigger bles in the game uh just tough as nails and then you get some of those little hookers uh that have to defend in the in the Rock area um and just hold their own I mean Jeff tuby comes to mind when it comes to just you know a guy that would could could hardly walk off a field because he you know he was playing in at Hooker or yeah and of course players like that are um not uh blessed with stature are targeted sure so they make a lot more tackles than the rest of us and uh you know those sorts of guys especially the ones who take the ball to the line As We Know absolutely y tough as I mean it's very difficult to to single out any single person I think you play you play in the NRL you're a tough bugger yeah yeah the next one just the um interested in your thoughts uh either observing or playing against or with them the most creative players that you've seen on a rugby league field who is that too hard a question oh again I mean I play with some of the best you know uh Ricky Ricky Ricky and lri uh at camera Alfie and Kevy you know at the Broncos Brett Cy uh was just coming on the scene at uh at the mour storm and again you know we talk about 89 and why a lot of people didn't think we were going to win the comp could be said about the 1999 Melbourne side where we had all these go young guys in there that hadn't just quite started their careers but were playing really well well but of course we're overlooked as being we're overlooked as being a threat because you know there was only a couple of us that had played rep footy you know um and the second year in the competition we win the Grand Final I mean that's an amazing astonishing achievement by our club but you know yeah so these and I tell you who I really appreciated was chicken Ferguson um I played against him once luckily for me as only once in a City Country game um and experienced his footwork firsthand um incredible incredible just the most loveliest BL and and his footwork and and his speed uh just just an amazing guy just unbelievable but um to answer your question you know the list goes on I mean Andrew Johns uh Brad fitler you know I played with those guys at rep level and they standing I mean some of the things they could do you know I go back and given you same with ch because I can't help that reinforced that that is someone looking at football but coming here to CRA uh in the mid 1980s and going out to seit in the first instance with my two boys who were busy collecting cans as you might even remember doing it yourself going back in the back in the day the youngsters but looking at that looking at the Raiders and Chica Ferguson was the first for for me the player that I simply wanted to come along to see he was he had something well he's a guy that when he soon as he's passed the ball the crowd stand up and there there's not many of them around um certainly not um yeah look there there's been a few as the uh Generations go on but he was a guy that soon as he got the ball um everyone stood up cuz I knew something was going to happen you know they're going to never more obviously than the last few minutes of regular time in the 1989 Grand yes exactly right oh yes there wouldn't have been anyone sitting on the on their seat at that period of time the people that were rigging me when I was in the United States with you know was chicka chicka chicka but leave that for the moment so let's in in in wrapping up um the the connections that you've had to the three clubs um uh in football um were simply one part of your uh uh well first football and if you like career since since being a teenager another part was uh your political career did you enjoy the experience of being in politics um yes and no yes and no um it's uh it's a very different game when it comes uh to football um uh I don't know how I I put this but um determined I was determined to leave with my dignity um and that was tested on a number of occasions until I became a um independent and uh I was able to then say and and uh support what I wanted to yeah um it became enjoyable you know and I've always liked helping people and um and I think I did uh not not necessar on a massive scale but uh you know I you know would sit there in my office in Queensland as a senator and I would have people from all walks of life come in and tell me their issues and stories and and their problems and um I sure I helped some I couldn't help everybody but um I I did did get to uh enjoy it in the last sort of part of it but very timec consuming I can appreciate politicians they would not see their families for long periods of time particularly as a senator because you know you represent a state or a territory you have to you have to so I spent a lot of time traveling around Queensland um seeing uh and talking to the people so well I think I mean asn't you know when you when you went independent I think that you know you really dignified the the Parliament and I would like to have seen a parliament that had Glenn Lazarus and Dave pook yes in it in the one time that would be something quite special we may well who's to say we might see we might you never know what can happen know you definitely say do not say no so just the very last question and that is you you really have had numerous Awards over the years in football outside of football what's is there any one of the awards that you have received over the years that's more special than another um it's hard it's hard to uh separate them all I mean I um I'm very appreciative of all the awards I got to say um but uh I think um uh the awards that I've received particularly um you know the uh o and things like that um I've got to uh you know I just I've just got to uh thank my wife uh for uh for receiving that because as I said I mean when I um before I met her I was going down a very dark path and um football certainly wasn't my priority um uh you know there was drugs involved and things like that and um I met her and she uh inspired me to pull my uh uh head out of out of the sand and really knuckle down and and I I do honestly believe um that if I didn't meet her I would I would not have achieved anything like I I have I'm not a big fan of talking about getting personal accolades um I think I was successful in a team sport for a reason and I loved being successful with a team of people um obviously rugby league I played with men um but there were a lot of certainly a lot of females that uh played an important role in the club success um and so um I'm just the thing that I'm most proud of in account of my rugby league is the grand finals um you know I I love representing New South Wales and and uh in Australia very privileged and I really enjoyed it but winning those grand finals with those group of men and and women that put in such long hours and and some of it's very tough to do um we start our seasons in November pre-season over Christmas played 20 25 uh home and away games and then we started you know playing semi finals and and it certainly um through all of that there's heartaches there's ups and downs there's all this sort of thing and then when you win it you know the the the euph forer and that you see and your teammates and the fans and the coaches and everyone else involved with the club is just wonderful thing to experience and um yeah one of my favorite things about the grand finals was coming cuz obviously they're all in Sydney so coming back to Cambra coming back to Brisbane going back to Melbourne you know and seeing the fans and the and the you know the families of of the players and just yeah it's wonderful wonderful thing and um I'm really glad that I was I got myself in a position uh to be able to experience it well Glenn Lazarus it's been a real pleasure for me to interview you uh in the bleeding green uh interview series um it's going to be something special for the club not only in the next few years but certainly well into the future thanks very much my pleasure mate chamber Raiders respect and honor the traditional custodians of the land and pay our respects to their Elders past present and future we acknowledge the stories traditions and living cultures of Aboriginal and torist straight Islander peoples on the land we meet gather and play [Music] of this project was supported with funding made available by the ACT government under the ICT Heritage grants program