well after the deadly attacks on September 11th 2001 the US began its search for Osama Bin Laden who assisted in planning the attacks that killed nearly 3,000 Americans experts at the National Security Agency worked alongside multiple agencies to track him down eventually leading to his death in 2011 in the first episode of the agency's new podcast the No Such podcast we learn how some of the nation's best and brightest used foreign signals intelligence to help find and eliminate the terrorist leader John Derby was a part of that mission to find Bin Laden he is the former director of operations for the National Security Agency and he was also the NSA chief of counterterrorism during the bin Laden operation thank you so much for joining us and uh you know the B I think the podcast is a is really a brilliant idea um it begins with details of how the NSA helped find Bin Laden through something called foreign signals intelligent or Sig Sant I don't know if I said it properly can you give us a sort of brief overview of what this is and just tell us how how it was used to help find Bin Laden okay so um Sig breaks out to signals intelligence uh meaning intelligence derived from signals so and by signal you know think about it it's foreign electronic communications think emails phones Radars missiles and the like now it takes several steps to derive intelligence from signals starting with a requirement that comes down from like the president or the White House in this case the requirement was fine Bin Laden and then we have to collect data we've got a NSA has a variety of sensors arrayed around the world to uh include but not limited to antennas sometimes in dangerous places uh collection authorized by warrants signed off by the foreign intelligence surveillance Court uh we hack into foreign networks uh so those are some of the types of sensors that we use to collect data then we've got to process that data uh it may require some technical processing may require breaking some codes may require translating a foreign language into English and then it comes to the analysis which and it's very complex even to get to that point but the analytic process is complex as well the analogy I like to use is it's like putting together a jigsaw puzzle that's different from any jigsaw puzzle that most of us are familiar with in this case you may have a few pieces of data or puzzle pieces there on your desk in front of you but there maybe hundreds of pieces scattered around the world and you've got to find as many of those pieces as you can and put them together to answer the requirement whereas Bin Laden and there's no box top to tell you how the pieces fit together and then not only that then you've got to share that information with somebody that can act on it because intelligence it's got to feed some kind of action and I'm going to throw like another factor in because it's also like that box that dicka puzzle box has pieces from other puzzles thrown in there as well and you have to decide you know I mean there must be an awful lot of noise when you're taking in all of this data and if I sort of recall too one of the things that emerged um in in the Fallout of of this whole thing was that you know us intelligence in the Middle East had kind of been lacking for a while that that that so there was also kind of a bit of a learning a catchup that had to be done where do you even start then because when you're trying to find someone like Bin Laden well it's really it's uh it's all about leads you know and much like a police investigation how do you you know gather leads from let's say um it may come from nsa's own collection of other Al-Qaeda individuals for example or CIA leads or FBI or the military and the like each using their own capabilities and authorities those are puzzle pieces that are being fed to analysts not just at NSA but at the other agencies to try to put together that uh that that puzzle and indicate where he is so it takes pretty much a decade to find him I presume just to throw something else into this whole mix right he's not staying in one place so there must have been moments where you were close and then not and then close and then not not can you sort of talk to us about why it took a decade to find him well I mean you think about it finding the world's most V Wanted terrorist who could be anywhere on the face of the Earth and who didn't use electronic communications himself that's a you know Monumental task to find him and yes it did take us nine and a half years after 911 to find him and it was as you say in fits and starts um sometimes a lead would you know and as you said a lot of these puzzle pieces didn't really fit but we had to investigate a lot of those leads which as we say were rabbit holes you ran down and there was nothing there and you just needed to you know persevere and keep at it and the mindset for the folks that were really working this was you know we will find him if he is alive we will find him despite a lot of naysayers saying you know he he's dead or you'll never find him don't bother yeah what did it feel like during the raid and the moment Osama bin Laden was was located and killed well I tell you it was you know a variety of you know I tell a lot of stories about that day of the raid everything from uh you know nervousness as I'm walking into work that day thinking I'm pretty sure he's there but there's a little bit of Doubt to uh The Surreal feeling that you're witnessing history when you hear Admiral mccraven announce uh to those that were uh following the raid uh that we got him and then uh even afterwards when I came home you know after about 36 hours at work when I walked in to uh to my house my wife had kind of put together two and two she knew I worked in counterterrorism uh she'd seen the president statement she kind of figured I was connected somehow so I walked in she goes well you know you clearly had something to do with this do you want a steak dinner and I said I just want a pizza and I sat down frankly you know and I cried my eyes out and really just thinking about the the 300 people that lost their lives on 911 all the sacrifice that people put in in Afghanistan and elsewhere around the world for nearly 10 years to to bring this terrorist to Justice and I was so proud of the team across the entire intelligence Community military that pulled together it truly was a team effort you across multiple agencies uh to to bring this man to Justice well you know uh what you're reminding me of is that the NSA is filled with people who have not just it's not just work it's it's part of their heart and soul that they pour into this if you want to know more about what the NSA does check out the No Such podcast it's great they talk about all kinds of different topics John Darby thank you very much thank you