Anti-Psychopath PAC Town Hall

set we are live on zoom and live on YouTube as well all right well hello everyone um this is our first anti- psychopath political action committee town hall and we have with us uh join who will be joining in just a few minutes uh Dr John Gartner a prominent psychologist who has been at the Forefront of binging uh Donald Trump's psychological conditions uh to the public uh mind um I'm just going to talk just very briefly I think most of you probably know all about psychopath or else you wouldn't be here but I'm going to tell you about what the idea was and a little about the origin and what we've done so far and and then we're going to let um John talk and then we're going to answer lots of questions which I think um have been sent in uh that that my colleague Riley is going to is going to pose to us on your behalf basically the idea Ian I've been banging this Trump for a number of years that Trump is a narcissistic psychopath a narcissistic sociopath malignant narcissist there are all different phrases that overlap um that really describe him he is a pathological narcissist within the meaning of the dsm5 the diagnostic and statistical Manual of mental disorders the fifth edition um I probably you have seen me hold out the cards and go through each of the each of the diagnostic criteria one by one by one if you haven't if you if you've missed it I you know i' I've posted those any number of times over the last five years he's also a sociopath and a sociopath is someone who has absolutely zero conscience it's manifested by the fact that he Trump he is a pathological liar that he uses aliases to just from time to time to describe himself that he that he has absolutely no remorse no conscience that he um you know he insults people he he does all sorts of very bad things because he just doesn't treat other human beings as human beings and he doesn't respect them and that's all also consistent with his narcissism everything is about him and so that's why fundamentally he's unfit for you know to to be dog catcher I mean he he only cares about himself he doesn't care about the public that elects him and that he is is is supposed to be serving he doesn't care about the Constitution that he would be called to uphold once again which he did you know under under the Constitution if he's elected president he not only failed to uphold the Constitution when he was president he actually tried to overthrow it and would try to overthrow it again he's a man who's also who said that he wants to suspend the Constitution because it's not doesn't when it doesn't suit him he he doesn't like it of course he's willing to get he's willing to because it's you know it's all about him he's willing to take immunity from the Supreme Court whatever he can get from it um but he's not willing to give anything back he's not willing to commit himself to the rule of law he's not willing to commit himself to be the president of all the people he's only in it for himself and that's basically it and he tells Endless Lies and he's a narcissistic sociopath and one of the ways that you know that he is Disturbed is that it's very easy to get under his skin narcissists are very very weak people at bottom they pretend to be tough but they're actually very weak they cannot take criticism and one of the things that we've all learned and I learned this early on in 2019 when I started pointing out his narcissistic sociopathy was that he gets very sensitive when you criticize him he responds I mean he collapsed back which is kind of stupid he did it first did it to me in March 2019 when I started tweeting out the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder he started attacking me as being the husband from Hell or he said all sorts of choice things about me which was really stupid because he should have ignored me he should have ignored me he should have just basically just said oh that you know he just SED it off and ignored it but instead he Amplified it and that's what he does when somebody writes a book about him that's critical of him he criticizes the author and sells more of that person's books he's done that endlessly and now we're seeing it in this campaign and this is part of the object of of psychopath we're seeing him respond to the criticisms uh um which are very valid criticisms um responding very weakly instead of talking about things like the economy and the things that his advisers want him to talk about so you know as part of a long experience with this I mean I I I thought that you know it would be a great idea to actually have a pack that was designed a political action committee that was actually designed to illustrate and point out um his psychological conditions and one of the reasons why it's necessary to do that which is one of the reasons why actually I had to do it instead of I mean the doctors did it but they the Press wouldn't cover it and I I you know I fan myself a little bit skilled now at at getting this into the media because I've been talking about it for so long I thought you know a pack would be a great thing to do and so the object of the political action committee is is fourfold one is it's to um explain Trump's psychological disorders to the world to the electorate it's to um explain why those psychological disorders render him unfair fit for Duty unfit to serve as president the third is to finally get the media to start talking about it and we're making some Headway there and the fourth is to basically provoke him into manifesting those characteristics and you know that we you know I think we've achieved some success we've gotten definitely gotten on his radar screen um it very much annoys him that we're running these ads we run these ads basically a lot of them we just run it in maralago and we run it at Bedminster so that he sees them and he responds to them he he he tweeted at us he tacked us the way he tacked he also attack the Lincoln project which you know where we where we first did the audience of one thing four years ago these audience of One ads um and the best moment was when he we in my in the launch video if you go back to our website I did a launch video three four minutes um you know that was longer than it should have been but it was I thought it was pretty good and one of the things I talked about is how Trump's narcissistic sociopathy his personality disorders is what they are called under the dsm5 the narcissism the pathological narcissism and the antisocial personality disorder um these personality disorders not just Define him and not just render him unfit they kind of explain all of his conduct and misconduct in particular they explain I said uh why he worships authoritarians and gets along with dictators it's why he is authoritarian in nature it's why he is a misogynist it's why he is a a racist it's why he is a criminal all of these things go back to his narcissistic sociopathy and lo and behold a couple of weeks ago before the Democratic Convention he was giving one of his rally speeches in a very small venue small venue uh in in Asheville North Carolina and he started talking about how he gets along with Kim Jong-un and how he gets along with Vladimir Putin and he said some people say that's a personality defect that's that's us echoing in his head and so we're going to do more of that we've got a lot more coming um we've run this we've run ad campaigns directed at at his slurring of words that drive drove him nuts it it it we've run about an ad campaign about his his um small crowd sizes and and that's that's clearly something he's sensitive to we put up Billboards talking about how he cheats at everything including Golf and we put up Billboards you know saying that he is what he is he's a criminal and and and we you know um we put a great a big billboard right up by Palm Beach International Airport can't miss it when you're going from your private plane to Mar Lago and it says welcome to Maro home of the Felon and we're going to do more of that and more of the videos and I don't only want to spoil any any any secrets uh I don't want to I don't want to spoil the surprises that are about to come but but we got more and so with that I'd like to introduce uh Dr John Gartner who is a longtime uh practicing psychologist um affiliated with the Johns Hopkins University and he has really been talking about this for a number of years and he he played a big role in there was a great movie I commend it all to you to watch it from 2020 played a a starring role in that documentary called unfit um which talked about Donald Trump's guess what narcissistic sociopathy and I I give you Dr Dr Gartner thank you George and really thank you for all that you're doing um you you talked a lot about the history of how you got involved in this um you know when you were on our show on our podcast shrinking Trump you talked about the fact that really there's two groups of people who have identified dangerous leaders like Donald Trump I thought you put it very one was historians like Ruth Ben Gatt and the other uh has been mental health professionals um and specifically actually historically it really began with one mental health professional that I want to focus on a famous analyst named Eric FR many of you have probably heard of him he's one of the founders of humanistic psychology well he himself escaped Hitler and it stuck with him he wanted to explain the psych ol ology of Hitler and other grandiose murderous mad dictators like him and so he came up with this formulation of malignant narcissism which actually has four components George mentioned two of them narcissism and and and sociopathy or psychopathy the other two are paranoia you know his um constant sense of being grieved of being a victim uh his conspiracy theories uh his demonization of minorities and immigrants and anyone who doesn't agree with him and then finally the fourth component is sadism and this is very very important because at a fundamental level a malignant narcissist is someone who is destructive who wants to destroy who gets a sense of almost orgiastic pleasure from feeling a grandio sense of uh destructiveness and really any of these leaders have always in the end destroyed their own countries um the reason that I was actually aware of his work was just I sometimes liken myself to the fictional character Randall Mindy in the movie don't look up he's just a nerdy guy doctor with his own area of research but because of that nerdy area research he's the first one to see that there's a meteor a planet killing meteor heading towards Earth well in the 1980s when I was a young man I trained with the world expert malignant narcissism OT kernberg and um at that point it was actually an obscure historical diagnosis that people didn't use very often but because of my nerdy expertise I realized oh my God there's a meteor killing meteor heading towards America um so I did get involved as George said I started an organization called duty to warn uh we did um try to get as much attention with the press and with the public as we could we did the movie hashtag unfit by the way the sequel hashtag untruth is coming out this weekend um but as George is pointing out we've been banging on the door but we've been getting resistance from the mainstream press for really covering this story and sometimes it's really been extraordinary uh it's been amazing how the Press has normalized the most grossly dangerous and pathological Behavior so what's exciting to me about working with this pack is it's a chance for us to do something about that and get this message to the people who really need to hear it so the group we really need to hear it obviously are the sliver of persuadable Voters in swing States and so by putting up Billboards and and running ads we can reach those people CU we're breaking out of the normal social media bubble we're not in their little bubble but if they're watching TV or they're driving a car they're going to see this message and one of the things that I think is so powerful about reaching people with this message is George has made a very good point about political messaging I've learned a lot from him about political messaging and one of his points is the best political message is trying to convince some someone of something they really already know or believe you for example when they were branding Biden is old people felt well he was old so it it it it resonated well people really do at some deep level understand there's something wrong with this guy even a lot of the people that are voting for him realize there's something disturbed about him uh reminds me of the um Goldwater Johnson race where the uh the the knock on Goldwater is deep in your guts you know he's nuts I think that's really true about Trump so this advertising campaign will resonate and it really could bring in an important s of Voters the second goal that he talked about is finally getting the mainstream media to report on this story and I have to say no one has done more than George in that area um if you watch cable news you've seen George talking about this uh you know they uh talked about uh the phrase the full Ginsburg uh that's when Clinton's lawyer went on like all the different talk shows and I think they're going to have to rename it the full Conway now because he's appearing on so many shows but finally what's really fascinating to me is this third goal that uh George has had this theory for a long time that as a bully who's also a thin-skinned narcissist he can be provoked to react in ways that are against his interest that reveal his pathology um and that show him being off-kilter and erratic and also put him on the defense you know if you have to be explaining that you don't have cognitive decline then you're losing and so while the wise thing would be to not react he's not capable of not reacting um and so um what we're doing is kind of hoisting him on his own petard by by provoking him in this way it's getting him sort of undone and also to reveal his pathology but also we know that he has to react so for example uh we had now as I look at this in some ways as as a psychologist as a psychological experiment we've got an independent variable beaming these ads into his clubs and then we've got the dependent variable seeing how he reacts so for example when they beamed an an ad about his cognitive decline into his clubs the next he wrote a very angry uh post about George calling him Mr kellyanne Conway and um saying that how dare fox show this garbage um so we know he saw it that's important and then the next day at his rally he's saying they say I have cognitive decline I don't have cognitive decline well you have reminds me of Nixon saying I'm not a crook if you have to deny that you have cognitive decline you're kind of uh already losing um so and George gave you the example about just talking about the personality defect that was immediately after a commercial comparing him to these historic dictators was beamed into his Club um so it's working and the other thing that's so gratifying to me about this well first of all it's just gratifying to you know feel empowered to to get under his skin and to to put him on his back feet but the kamla Harris campaign has has picked up on this strategy and they now too are needling him and ridiculing him and provoking him about his crowd size about other things and it's working I think that's the important thing George has identified a strategy that is actually working um so those are all the remarks that I had to make well I'd like to think they're I'd like to think that I gave them the idea I think they also figured it out a lot on their own but I think one of the things that we do do that helps them is that we create Running Room for them because we're out there put you know I'm waving these cards with the DSM criteria on on MSNBC and they can go out and say weird which is basically code for what the more complex message that we're sending out but you know they're not they we we're protecting their flank by going out there and pushing the envelope and for and and talking about this in more explicit terms so you know I mean I May everybody get into the ACT I love that the Lincoln Project's been doing it I really love how the the Democrats have finally really taken to um just needling him getting under his skin I mean you see campaigns do that from time to time but it's usually not directed at the the psyche of the of of the opposing candidate it's usually just you know a lot of it's just fun a lot of it's trying to just get attention um but this really gets under his skin and he he the one of the problems he has is is he doesn't have a coherent message to start with and he's certainly not going to be able to establish one if he keeps talking about whether or not he has personality defects whether or not he he slurs words whether or not he you know loves dictators I mean all of these things he's he's he he one there's one um my ex-wife used to quote Mario Cuomo uh and and say that the one one thing she remember Mario quo saying that really was important in politics is that you don't repeat the criticism when you're criticized I mean you can there are ways you have to play defense sometimes but you don't go out there and mouth the criticism so that you amplify what the other people are saying that's bad about you right I'm not weird I'm not weird I'm not weird I'm not weird I'm not cognitively cling I don't have a personality defect he can't help it the more you Hammer at him the more he talks about it and I think part of it is because deep down I mean one of the things about narcissists is pathological narcissists is they're projecting a false front and deep down they know it's a false front they're trying to convince themselves and the world that they are greater than they actually are that they are more stable and more genius than they actually are that you know he Trump's been talking about how hot he is lately I mean mean you know this Al this incredible false front that he has to maintain to actually it's not just to it's not just to get elected it's not just to to to get people to cheer for him it this is part of his own essential mechanism to defend his own personal his own psychological Integrity is what holds him together and if you start jamming at that you see you can cause them you can cause a person like him to fall apart and when things start start going bad they fall apart and that's I think part of what we're seeing here I mean we gotten to the point and we talked about you know uh Eric FR and how he how he uh you know got into the idea of malignant narcissism because he was studying Hitler and Stalin and Lord knows who um you know I mean there's part of me always thinks of when I think of trump and the malignant normality that we that has been created around him where all of these things that he does that would be absolutely deadly to anyone else you know all the talking about Hannibal Lecter talking about electrocuting and sharks and whatever you know that would be fatal to any other candidate but he he's created this normality where it's oh that's just Trump being Trump I mean you know I I think of the movie downfall which is about about the last 10 days in the fur bunker and the weird normality that they had where it was perfectly normal for them to be hiding in a bunker worshiping this one man who is basically bought brought destruction to his country with the Russians a few blocks away shelling them I mean you know he the guy was moving around divisions on a map that didn't exist okay and that's where Trump is headed and we want to help him get there as soon as possible anyway so let's um we've enough yapping from us um we're supposed to do a half hour of yapping but I think I I I don't want to start saying things that people have already heard I I want to get right to the questions if that's okay and Riley do you have the questions yes I do first off thank you so much everyone for joining and submitting questions uh we got hundreds of questions submitted so we will not be able to get to everyone's uh but to start with something pretty newsy it was recently reported that Trump's campaign is running ads in Florida in maral Lago uh what do you think of that I'm glad you mentioned that because I was going to bring it up uh you know it what George was saying about how Hitler needed to be surrounded by all these flunky who created this false reality for him uh so now to counteract George and the Lincoln projects ads that are depicting him as bad they've taken up a collection to beam ads praising him into his clubs just to counteract the narcissistic injury that the Psychopaths and Lincoln projects ads are causing him which I think is hilarious right I mean it's not like Florida has been deemed to be a swing state or Palm Beach County in particular is is you know it's not these these are all audience they're running their own audience of One ads and they actually did that four years ago um the Lincoln project had started to get under his skin and um what happened was they they the Trump campaign actually took out ads at during the Super Bowl the Super Bowl National ads you don't run National Television ads in a presidential campaign because only like seven or eight states matter but they blew $10 million to buy a big spot on this during the Super Bowl the most expensive television advertising you can possibly buy I mean insane anyway well frzy go all right next question do you believe that Trump has any understanding that most of what he says is complete lies or does he believe his own lunacy that's a really good question I'm going to defer to our psychological it is question it is a really good question and it's one that um isn't always clear you know my colleague Lan stoa says there's two types of Lies Trump tells those he tells others to deceive him and those he tells himself and at a certain point those lies become delusions I believe uh that in other words he literally convinces himself you know George castanza on Seinfeld said you know remember it's not a lie if you believe it so he convinces himself think he actually convinced you know people have talked to him said no he actually thinks he won the election um so it's but that's a delusion you know a delusion is a rigidly held belief that cannot is not amenable to reason or facts so it is actually at any given moment hard to tell where he is on that spectrum between pure lying trying to convince himself and actually being delusional I think he slides up and down that Spectrum very fluidly I I agree with that and I put it slightly differently to to add to the mix I don't think he's capable of making distinctions between truth that he likes lies that he wants people to believe misconceptions that just float around in his head and all sorts of other factoids and things I I think it's all just a big mush pile and he just pulls out randomly at any given moment whatever it is he wants to spout out to whoever the audience is at a given moment I mean does he really believe for example that the crowds that that kamla Harris got in the five or six rallies she held just before the Democratic National Convention and right after she was became the presumptive nominee is he really saying those were all artificially generated by computers I mean he said that now does he really believe that when he was pressed on it he kind of demurred later does he really believe that people are going to believe that it doesn't I just don't think matters to him and and when you call him out on lyes he either he just tells another lie he just goes all over the place I don't think he cares what he he he I don't think his mind really distinguishes between what's true what's fact true and what's false I think it distinguishes between what he thinks helps him or assuages his ego at any given moment and what does not I think that's right and I would add one more thing that I actually forgot to mention which is we've also seen great evidence of nitive decline in him that we've been talking about for a long time and we've been talking about a lot on our show shrinking Trump and the thing is is that that adds a whole other component which is that he also I think in his more demented moments does something called confabulation where he actually has gaps in his memory and so the mind just fills it in with um stories that aren't really lies they're really um they're made up they're not stories you're making up intentionally your mind is filling in gap to try to make sense of what's going on for yeah for the rest of us they're just little gaps for him there are these big gaping holes in the Swiss trees of a brain that he has exactly so when he was at at Gettysburg for example you know he goes Gettysburg wow because one of the things people who have demented to is they just speak in sues it's amazing it was incredible it was really something it was and I really think he didn't know what Gettysburg was uh at one point he's looking at a hill and he goes you know Robert E Lee he said never fight Hill me boys never fight upill in an Irish accent but he's looking at a hill he's making this up but the point is the difference between say that and saying that commus crowd size is is fake obviously he has a a real clear reason for wanting to convince people that commus crowd size is fake he has no reason to make up this crazy story about Robert E Lee I think it's really his mind just filling in gaps so I think the only thing more dangerous than a malignant narcissist with the nuclear codes is a demented malignant narcissist this with the nuclear codes yeah and and it's also important to remember he he didn't have much up there to start with okay I mean one of the points that it's a subsidiary point but one of the points that um my friend Justin Frank he's a psychiatrist a Harvard trained psychiatrist who wrote a book called Trump on the couch wrote that in like 2017 is when you are a pathological liar like trump it it debilitates your ability to think this is even apart from age related cognitive decline you don't think you cannot think the way the rest of us have to think because you're just making up all the time yeah and so it there's it it's debilitating it's likey it's it's intellectually debilitating just to be making up lies left and right because you it it's a substitute for actual thought actual reason actual empirical measurement and understanding of the world um and another point about it is that um no I forgot I'll skip the other point we'll get to it later okay how can people get the media to cover Trump's mental unfitness for office by talking about it and that's what we are trying to do we're going to talk about it and um we you know we we we are going to talk about it and we're going to cause him to behave more like that and and sooner or later we're going to force them to really really talk about it and they are talking about it in sort of guarded ways they're talking about weird they're talking about you know they are talking about him behaving quite oddly um that he can't focus they're saying he that the his advisers can't get him to do what he needs to do and you know that that goes to that goes to exactly what we're talking about and and I think you know as the weeks go on I think we're going to I think we're going to be able to drive the point home and I hope that we can frankly for the longer term we can educate the public so that we never have any a guy like this again how should KLA Harris communicate with Trump in the upcoming debate they are scheduled for she should be okay here there there's one the principal problem that one would have when debating Donald Trump is to deal is to deal with the fire hose of lies and we saw Joe Biden try to do that I think I mean I think yeah yeah he is old and and he is a little bit slower than he might otherwise but I don't think he was senile or or suffering for dementia I just think he was overprocess what he was hearing and trying to figure out okay which of the 17 lies that I just hear should I respond to and in what order and with what points and if you start thinking like that you're effed I could use the word you're screwed because there is no way to PO you know it would take you hours and and and to to respond to each one of those lies you're just it's like you're chasing rabbits around what they call what they say in in in in in litigation is you you can't be chasing rabbits around the courtroom you have to stick to a few main points and that's what what you have to do is basically just say he's lying pick a lie and say that's a lie and then go on the attack and and the way to attack Trump is not to look be upset but to roll your eyes at him and mock him yes that will make him crazy and that is pickly I was like I'm you know the I think the Harris campaign is totally on to that because they want they want the mics unmuted exactly they want those mics unmuted he's gonna lose his the the Trump campaign wants Trump's microphone to be muted between answers they know what whatever comes out of his mouth isn't going to be good so I I think you know what she has to do is she can't respond to every lie she has to call him out for lying give a couple of examples and basically say are you okay do you need to talk to someone you know I mean you just just treat him like the crazy man that he is and you know if it involves some cackling you know she's got this great laugh that'll just drive him drive him nuts and another reason why you have to do it that way is is um from the other standpoint the other standpoint of his followers his followers like him because he pisses off liberals he pisses off his enemies and they don't like Trump's enemies because they're their enemies because they perceive those those liberal types of people who who you know Democrats and media types as acting as if they are above um the the masses and so they like it when Trump pisses them off when the those people off they don't like it it doesn't really help them it doesn't make them feel strong and secure and allied with this omnipotent leader if that omnipotent leader is being mocked and laughed at and that's another reason why you know what she has to do is you know not she has to ridicule him I agree with clever way and and and in a humorous way absolutely and you know that kind of goes against Democrats DNA you know we're the we're the nice guys well you also like to talk about policy I mean you know this and we love to talk about policy policy and you know if we have this look this law we can make a perfect world I mean you know you guys candy ass liberals I mean that's what you do well and that's actually one of the ways Biden was mis prepared for the debate he came up with all the they had him cram for the test and he had 17 policy experts uh brief him and he said Point number one policy number two all of that doesn't work either so I agree with you you can't respond to the lies one at a time because there's too many then you're on their ground as you say repeating their words you can't get Meed in policy I think you have to have Punchy lines that are both ridiculing and memorable um and aggressive uh and and that are funny and powerful and you're right by to a political consultant yet doctor and because remember his key thing is strength right it you know uh and and and actually that's why Biden was losing in my view you know if you look at um the the basic Drew Weston who wrote the political brain he's a psychologist he consulted with the clintons and he said basically there's we basically have a basically a chimpanzee brain okay and if you remember Planet of the Apes when Koba and Caesar fight for dominance Caesar is obviously a good leader and KOB is obviously a malignant narcissist but the apes are just going to watch and see who wins the battle whoever that is that's our boss that's the new leader because that's the Primitive programming that is deep in our brain because if our leader is more powerful than the other leader we survive so when it looked like Trump we kept saying he's bad he's bad he's bad and every yeah he's bad but but Biden is weak so badum weak be interesting to talk to you know evolutionary bi evolutionary psychobiologist if there's abely where there were two I mean One way humans have survived is by cooperating and you know which requires which requires empathy and understanding and be acting treating other people with fairness and and then the other way is just Brute Force our guys meaner and ready to kill more people than the other guys and the you know that's the battle that's the psychological battle that is waged both on an individual level in each mind and on a societal level on a global level level and we're trying to get to you know what we what the object should be is we're trying to get to the to the you know we're trying to evolve ourselves into not needing to kill everybody to survive and you know to to do that we got to get rid of people like Trump how's that for philosophy well and I it is rooted in evolutionary biology because you're you know there's a difference between within group behavior and between group Behavior within group Behavior needs to be more Cooperative but if the other tribe is going to kill you you want a strong leader and that's what demagogues do they split a society into us and them so you feel like they're coming to get us and so we need him to protect us and that's that he creat and you talk to somebody like Ruth Ben Gat that I mean basically Playbook we talk to Timothy SN all these people who all these social scientists and historians who write about fascism and authoritarianism you know and and and I I recently I did a an a uh forward for the reissue of a book by Dr Steven Hassan uh The Cult of trump I mean that's the essence of cult leadership is you people here in our Jonestown Camp are the anointed ones and everyone else we don't want their influence in out inside groups versus outside groups anyway next question all right in what ways has Trump's mental instability and mental health issues influenced his policy decisions and his interactions with foreign leaders during his presidency and you know his endearment towards these dictators well I mean I I think it's had lots of effects I mean he pursues policies that he perceives not necessarily to be in the public interest maybe sometimes it is he he he does things for his own benefit to go to the domestic front the most recent perfect example was comprehensive immigration reform the Lankford bill the bill that was basically drafted you know I mean with the with the consent of Conservative Republican members of Congress that the Biden that Joe Biden was ready to sign that in you know increased uh Border Protection um you know it was it was a normal Republicans viewed that as a victory they won and Trump said no because Trump didn't want to take that issue off the table Trump didn't want the Democrats to get the political bump of you know of of triangulating their way into into into policy that Republicans would agree with okay and that's that's completely self-destructive I mean it it shows you that he does not care about the things he purports to care about things he talks about he only cares about what's good for number one to talk about his um relationship with foreign leaders I mean they they have him down to a te they think he's as as Jo as John Bolton says they think he's a laughing fool and they know how to manipulate him I mean the Japanese prime minister even allies even do it I mean uh mcon talked about you know let's have a parade let's have a big parade he knew Trump would like a parade and Trump all of a sudden Trump you know this was 2017 2018 all of a sudden Trump wanted to have a parade a big raid down Pennsylvania Avenue and Constitution Avenue with tanks and everything and they said sir sir um the tanks will really screw up the the roadway and we'd end up having to repave all of Washington you know so you know they know how to manipulate him and and you know but but and and they they I one of the things I would love to see someday is when all these archives of you know we'll probably be dead by then um but you know maybe maybe they can preserve our bod so we can wake us up up and show us this um the all I want to see The Archives of all the foreign intelligence agencies that did profiles on Donald Trump I remember I remember in particular um the incident that occurred with the British Ambassador whose name I forget um the prior British Ambassador he had sent secret cables to whiteall basically talking about Trump being cuckoo and and how you how he's so easily manipulated and how he's a weak person and and you know it was it was meant for you know very very senior people with the foreign office and for the Prime Minister you know so that they you know it was basically his observations of trump after a year and a year and a half and somebody somebody in London leaked it to the British press and Trump basically demanded that the that the that that the British would call their Ambassador and you know the British did they you know they they weren't they have to have somebody in the United States that Trump was willing to deal with so you know it really does affect our foreign policy and in particular with regard to the to the to the dictators I mean he wants to be one he he the these birds of a feather flock together he wants to be King Jong-Un he loves the fact that Kim king Jong Kim Jong-un you know can can has has absolute fty um you know I mean it helps that you can you know you can say Kim Jong once had his uncle executed with a with an aircraft missile um but you know that's he does that that's good for him to Trump trump loves that Trump doesn't care Trump trump has no Humanity Trump trump wants to be like Putin or Kim Jong and I also think in a more concrete way I agree with everything you said about the psychology in a more concrete way I think we just have to recognize that Donald Trump is on Putin's team he has been from the very beginning I mean there's absolutely no question I I don't think it call him even a Russian asset I he's a Russian agent basically in his view his view is the view of a criminal right a criminal gang and so Putin is the boss of bosses but then Donald Trump is the Oar that in charge of America they divide up the territory but the problem with these criminals is they divide up the territory but then they end up fighting over the territory right you know there's a famous principle that democracies don't attack democracies but autocracies do and autocracies attack each other so if Trump were to be reelected and to become the the the Russian um autocrat and and and oligarch of America now you'd have a gang of of of Warlords you'd have a gang of dictators running the country dividing up the world I'm you I'm sure Trump would let China take Taiwan and he would already said that he's not gonna do anything to stop Russia um if they invade Europe because they haven't paid their dues um because he's so Putin will know he doesn't have to worry about nuclear retaliation if he goes into Europe and so what's going to happen eventually someone's going to push the button and we'll have nuclear War so I really think people really need to see the big picture that when dictators rule the world it's perpetual destruction and War Riley another question as someone who is exhibiting these narcissistic and Soo sociopathic traits uh how do you think Trump will react if he loses the election in November well I think he is he is not going to react well he is going to claim that it was stolen from him and he's going to do the exact same thing we did he did in 2000 and he probably will do it in a more desperate fashion in a fashion that probably um he'll probably be trying more explicitly and more uh forcefully to provoke violence because this is his only shot at staying out of prison remember he is not just running for president he is running to stay out of prison and this is his last chance and that's I think that's why we're seeing him deteriorate is that he you know he doesn't have any more moves to play and so I I think we're going to see a lot of bad things um between now and January 20th and I hate to say that um somebody who just made that point just the other day was Dr Allan Francis who was a prominent uh psychiatrist who helped write the the the DSM dm4 um he basically said he's you know Trump is a Mal malignant narcissist and he's going to lose this election and when he loses he's going to try to forment violence and that's the reason why uh Dr Francis said he needs to be beaten soundly uh and I I've I you know I basically I've been the Democrats need to run up the score on this on this guy and not let up and I think that's the attitude that they have they really you know I mean obviously I'll take a Victor Victory by this much but it would be best for the country if Trump is completely trounced in a manner that really that that that is incontestable um even by the most insane people on the planet who will be supporting him and and and he's always fermenting violence I mean you know the way he responded to the assassination they basically said it was planned by the Democrats um which then of course pushes it's called stochastic terrorism if any of you aren't familiar with that term but stochastic terrorism is when you just keep putting out hate messages till finally one unstable person says I hear you Donald I'll do something about it um and so he's put putting out those messages and uh it's you know remember he talked about a second amendment solution to Hillary Clinton he's been putting up those messages for a long time I but I agree with you they will escalate all right we're going to do a couple more questions here um what do you think gets under Trump's skin the most like what do you think makes him the most crazy what makes him the most crazy are the things that he knows he is not but he wants to convince the world that he is that he's stable that he's a genius that he's skilled that he's good-looking all of these things everything that you hear him talk about when he flatters himself that he's the richest man that he's the best businessman all every superlative that he ever utters about himself and it's just endless I mean there's it's almost anything because he he claims to be basically you know he claims to be he could have he was Major League Baseball material I think he basically has claimed to he's he claims you know he's the greatest golfer either if he's the greatest golfer why does he need to kick people's balls um into the into the rough you know and and and and and and and you know take 20 foot gimme putts um but you know he basically anything that calls into question his competence his ability his his psychological stability all of these things cut to the Core of his sensitivity that's why you know he deep down he doesn't believe that that's why he is a narcissist that's why he's always trying to reinsure himself and others that he is better than he actually is and so when you talk about anything any virtually any criticism that has some truth to it and all of these criticisms have truth to them it's not hard I mean there's no there's plenty to to to basically dunk on Trump about you know is it gets under his skin but I do think that particularly the you calling his you know he he's a guy who had to had to cheat on his SATs by paying someone to take his SATs for him and he's the guy who claims to be like the smartest person ever you know when you when you when you challenge his intelligence and his competence and his stability and his you know that's when he gets the most upset I think yeah yeah we call it in Psychology a narcissistic injury when something injures your narcissism and like you say he's fragile and so there's a can easily collapse and he has to be the best at everything like you said I remember there was one real where he says I know more about nuclear science than the nuclear scientist and I know more about you know the envir and he went through like 20 different professions where he knew more than the experts you know he said that he's done more for black people than than uh Lincoln and then he said I've been the most popular president since Washington and I was waiting for it and waiting for it in fact more popular than Washington nobody has ever done more for lat latest one nobody has ever done more for Christianity or for religion than Pope Donald Trump um and and so um what about Moses where's Moses I mean where is Moses who's done more he said he said literally like who's done no one's done more for the Jewish people like okay there are you know I there's a list of people I could think of you know gold eares who's who's for me to say I mean but but you know I think this thing about crowd size is really hitting his sort of manhood uh at a very deep level I really think he has crowd siiz Envy uh we were joking about that on the show you that was the most amazing moment in the Democratic Convention wasn't was was Barack Obama saying he really obsessed with crowd siiz yes yes thank God Barack Obama didn't go high he went low finally that was just that was that was that was narcissistic injury inflicted there yeah what are your plans for the anti psychopath pack from now through the election ah I don't want to give away the store but we we're going to be talking about we'll be talking about some of his crimes um that were not necessarily charged as crimes I mean um you know he's assaulted people let's put it that way and we're going to be talking about that and he's not going to like that it's already cost him 88 3 million so we're we're probably going to talk about this I don't want to give anything away but um that is something that's reflective of his sociopathy and it causes him great narcissistic injury to be confronted with his behavior got some other stuff too yeah so one question we got from a lot of people was you know why are so many people still willing to support Trump you know how can they not see the issues with him what do you guys make of that I think there are a lot of different reasons I think first of all look I think I think there has been this conservative right-wing it's not even conservative it's just it's just lunacy this media bubble where people cocoon themselves into hearing lies and they want to hear the lies and it's soothing to hear the lies that you know and and is also part of it is is that they want there is some kind of chemical reaction in the brain I think that when when people feel that they are being persecuted and they have to ban together to fight the enemy and I think there's a lot of that there's a there's there's this kind of addiction that a certain segment of the public has from watching Fox News and newsback reading reading Breitbart all of these things that the that that that people on the right have been feeding um the base over many many years to the point where you have to keep you have to keep dialing up the dosage in order to get a rise and I think that's part of what happens I think I I think that I think Donald Trump rode that um into office I also think that you know there's a there's a the part of it part of the thing is that the part of the situation is that the people who are how hold power or influence in the Republican Party have you know those would be include elected politicians um party functionaries political Consultants uh donors I think they've they've created a monster that they can't control and they're terrified of it and then there's also part of it that people don't want to admit error it is painful to admit error particularly when it's a big error and what what Trump has done I mean it's sort of like what what um former FBI director James Comey said he eats your soul Trump eats your soul bit by bit by bit and it's it can be quite gradual for some people but F when it gets to the point where you know what's he going to do next is there anything that he can do that can that can that that will make you realize that you've made a mistake there isn't any because it's like you you you you you you've already accepted so much and that's why you know I I misjudged what would happen after January 6 2021 myself I thought H this is it this is finally he's finally gone too far and and and and people are going to abandon him because this was just clearly too much and the reality hasn't no didn't happen who did we you know just there there were only like 10 or 11 members of Congress uh who voted to impeach him only you know a handful of senators and some of them have kind of taken it back already you know basically we got to Adam kiner and and and Liz Cheney and not a whole heck of a lot more right and it's just astounding and I you know and and and there's always this endless excuse making which drives me nuts particular on people I know well where it's not his fault he just listened to the wrong people it's like huh he chooses to listen to people on the basis of what he wants to do he you know that's one of the things that they they they get some some people let him get away with is that you know somehow he has some lack of agency but he's not responsible for himself well no sorry he's an adult he may be a lunatic but he's an adult and he's responsible for his action he should be held responsible his actions and the best way to hold him responsible for his actions is that he should spend the rest of his life in the prison for all the crimes he's committed yeah no I I totally agree with you everything that you said and you know in this new movie coming out hashtag untruth and the first one hashtag unfit we focus more on his malignant narcissism and hashtag untruth it's more about these social processes you're talking about about how social media and the News bubble has basically been able to create a false reality for people one of the things I think we've learned in the Trump era is how fragile reality really is um how people can really be convinced that you know he didn't kill a million people in Co he didn't lose the election he isn't working with Vladimir Putin he didn't steal documents I mean these things that are so blatant and so like the not just an elephant in a room it's the whole circus in a room that we're managing to ignore and you know it's really interesting there was a lot of psychological research after World War II dealing with the same question how could normal people believe all this stuff and there's a famous experiment called The Ash experiment which some of you I'm sure all of you that took iny learned about the ash experiment I'll just remind you very quickly the ash experiment is they bring a subject into a room and there's three lines two are short and one is clearly longer than the other and which one is longer okay 100% of the subjects get it right no one ever gets it wrong then they repeat it they have two Confederates in the room who insist that the shorter one is longer I mean what are you g to believe right your eyes or these two people you just met okay in this room uh and a third of the people change their vote that they say the shorter one is longer because they get just because other people are saying it so it must be true take that one and then the people you just met what if everybody you know in your church or in your group okay is watching Fox and they're all consuming the same reality um you can change reality and that's something we've learned and we have to really take a lesson from that all of this propaganda could destroy our society yeah and it's been compounded I think by the fact that we have so many more sources of information today than say we had 50 years ago I me 50 years ago when I was growing up you know we had news we had a couple of newspapers a local newspaper a a regional newspaper um I didn't really read the New York Times at Boston Globe the marbor Enterprise and marbor Massachusetts and we had basically channels four five and seven and ABC CBS and NBC and that's where we got our news and now you got Facebook and Twitter and this and that and Tik Tok and infinite ways to get information that are not equally valid and not equally accurate and some are you know some are really just in you know some are just lies intended to inflame to get clicks and you know have yeah people have oh you okay I'm gonna write that down that's that's an important admission um you know we we that wasn't my main point but okay well no okay it wasn't your main point no I get that it wasn't your but um you know I mean it's people are overwhelmed by the amount of information they have so it's easy you it's easier more more easy than ever yeah to basically just say I'm just going to listen to One Source One Man he's my truth and that's sort of the terrifying consequence of having so much information false true and false at our fingertips I mean I always you know I would have thought 25 years ago if you describe the as the internet was was kind of getting into Vogue that this is amazing you can you know I can be walking down the street and I can learn you know if I want some obscure fact about the Taj Mahal you know I could just look it up and while I'm crossing the street I could learn something it's like you know that's that's amazing but the downside is there's also just just out there and that's what a lot of people are choosing to consume and that's that's you know very very damaging to our democracy well I see we're basically we've somehow managed to consume the hour anded to us and so I'm gonna jump in here with one last question George okay okay one people really want to know um what can our viewers do to help your eff efforts and to help the pack well help the pack is you know contribute um we have you know we're raising money um I donated $ 343,387 cents um you know that's because he was convicted of 34 counts um other people have been giving $34 34 cents some people give $343 43 and give you know every you know we we're very focused I mean one of the things that's great about this pack is we you know what we are doing and what we're going to do we want to drive this nuts and um if you want to drive this guy nuts and make sure that he self-destructs or at least do our best to set to try to make himself The Struck between now and November you know click don't I you know just every little bit helps and I was really gratified I mean it's kind of touching because we I went to our offices um Riley's office which we use as a base and people had just mailed in checks like they don't click some some people don't want to click and they mailed in checks that we had like this whole pile of checks with all these great notes and everything and it was really kind of heartening that you know people really people really care and they care about their country and they care about the message that we're trying to convey and and um you know I I I I I just want to thank everybody for their support um I thank just even if you don't give a dime that you're just listening and telling people about what we're doing and telling people the guy's nuts and you know it in your guts to borrow that phrase I mean that's what you can do okay just spread the word if you can if you can spare some change that's that's that's amazing and um we hope to do more of these Town Halls as we go along we hope to have more to talk about and I think we will and um again thank you everyone for joining I really really really appreciate it it's it's just moving that we got such a such a great response well I just also want to say I'm very proud to be working with you and um you know in in the movie psychologists are always portrayed as this you know this evil figures with these nefarious plans I've never met a psychologist like that but I feel like with your help George I'm coming one yeah yeah scops you are you are I'm very I'm very proud to be uh I've read all the books about spies and World War II and the scops and it's very thrilling to actually be part of it but the real reason aside from the the that it's thrilling is it's working and I think that's the thing to emphasize to people you know we all make Financial contributions what what we can you know to the election because if you're listening to the show obviously you care but I think this is a very effective high value use of campaign dollars I mean if for $100,000 you can beam a commercial into directly into Trump's head and make him nuts that's $100,000 very well spent and you know I mean every day that he's off message um is is critical I mean there are only 69 70 days left and every day you could knock him off his game it's it's it's basically like you know a good hit at the line of scrimmage every day every play and that's what we're trying to accomplish and again thank you everyone um we thank you for being so generous with your time we've run over and um