[Music] n [Music] this crowd Rises to its feet Theo slammed it home gar left wing free ball perfect darar R of the lane lock the Bly pow and Allan blocked the shot at the rim howw with the left hand and a foul welcome to chase down podcast part of the Cavs media family I'm your host Justin Rowan the chase down is presented by fubo the official streaming partner of the Cavs watch over 350 channels of live sports and TV including B Sports Ohio without cable there's no cost and no commitment try for free at fubotv.com / Cavs it is September that means at the end of the month we have NBA training camps opening up which means we are closer to preseason which means we are closer to Cavs basketball I could not be more excited I have officially got all of the rest that I need for an offseason you know it's a funny thing to say before I you know put some stress on Carter by going on vacation uh at the end of the month but I I am uh rested I'm recovered and I'm very very excited for this NBA season I'm very excited to be talking to my co-host Carter Rodriguez Carter how you doing buddy jokes on you I forgot you were going on vacation I believe you only need to cover uh for two podcasts while I'm gone but at the same time that is going to be the entirety of preseason so enjoy that buddy that's going to be a lot of fun um can't wait buddy I I am officially like all the distractions are out of the way all my work trips are out of the way and it's just like all right I've waited long enough I have two give me what I want exactly and we're going to give the people what they want today um I've been enjoying doing these previews we're not quite finished we will still do a Sixers preview but with it being September I was like you know what I haven't got my casos fixed I haven't gone real nitty-gritty when it comes to to Cleveland Cavaliers basketball and and we need to do that again um I know sometimes those preview podcasts can be a little DEC uh divisive in the YouTube comments where some people really like love them as a way to you know kind of get a better feel for other teams around the Cavs and some people just want to hear Cavs when they're listening to Cavs podcast so uh we're uh we're we're catering to those that that want some Cleveland Cavaliers basketball today with some call them haters honestly like we we get people that really really love those and the people that uh don't you know Skip those ones that that's perfectly fine but we're going to kick things off with friend of the podcast Evan damal who asks what are your hopes for how deep Kenny ainson will go into his bench and rotations will it be enough to get Tyson regular minutes or will the guys returning from last season make it harder to find minutes for someone like Jaylen Tyson um oh man I was just about SN stifled to sneeze um uh you know it is interesting uh to to kind of look at that rotation I know Kenny ran a deeper one last time he was a head coach in Brooklyn he played 10 guys pretty frequently and I think you know rightfully so some Cavs fans who prefer longer rotations were like oh man what a what a great change cuz JB even when he was even when he was running 10 it was like a man like a man wearing a suit that didn't quite fit him you know like he was never he never looked like a guy who was thrilled to be managing a 10-man rotation so I think a lot of people immediately went to like oh great we're going to get these long rotations but something I'll continue to note is that because the Cavs uh topend Talent has a ton of depth because they have four Allstar caliber players you are always going to be up against a bit of a math problem when you're when you're building a rotation because if Evan Darius Donovan and Jared are all playing between 32 and 38 minutes with the ability to scale that up in a close game up to you know the low 40s you know if you're if you're really um tight down the stretch like all of a sudden you just don't have that many minutes to go around and then you end up playing certain guys like six or seven minutes and we saw that happen to Sam a couple times and it was always like you know it he didn't do well in those minutes and I wasn't surprised cuz it was like it's really hard to find your rhythm in two three minute stance you know once in the second quarter and once in the start of the fourth so like I think there is a bit of a math problem here that um you know Kenny will have to really manage those top fours minutes uh and frankly Max trues who's been a plus minus God last year for us if if we want to go that deep so that that I think we should answer that question before we even talk about Jaylen Tyson yeah I I I think that's a important and I I think when people discuss you know wanting to see a deeper rotation usually there's some like cause and effect implied where you know we're playing our starter so many minutes and as a result of that that's why we're dealing with the injuries that we're dealing with but in reality I I want to you know I think your point is correct about when you have four top guys that are playing you know serious minutes you're going to be in a little bit of a numbers Crunch and you run into that math problem but I do think it's interesting to point out when you're looking at minutes per game Donovan was 19th Darius was 51st Max was 74th Mo was 89th and Jared Allen was 77th when it comes to minutes per game the gavs were not you know the Tom diido Knicks where you see basically the starting line up in the top 15 of minutes per game these guys are not playing a lot of minutes relative to other starters in the NBA um you know I I think when you look at minute load and um some of the injuries and stuff there's other factors that go into it Beyond just you know the 34 minutes we see right like these guys are practicing all the time how many of those minutes are consecutive whereas you know if you're playing 34 minutes and you're playing 2 17 minute shifts you might have more fatigue on and with and tear on your body than if you know it's a more balanced rotation where guys are going in and out so I wouldn't even be surprised if the minute load for some of the starters increase because that's more in line with what other coaches do but I will say this the biggest thing that makes it tougher for the Cavs to go deep is not the minute load of their starters it's their sixth and seventh men Caris LT averaged 29 minutes per game Isaac okoro averaged 27 you look at like George and Dean way both of those guys were at 22 and some of that is going to be inflated because of the time that guys miss time with injuries obviously but that let's put that disclaimer there but we have consistently seen that the Cav six and seventh man in particular are always playing near starter minutes and you're not going to be able to go deeper in a rotation if you're doing that everyone everyone of the bench has got to be around 20 pretty much right right I think we're not going to see a dramatic difference and the starters but I think he's going to go deeper in the rotation and I think that's going to come at the expense of someone like Caris lever I think that's going to come at the expense of ISAC Coro I think you might have a situation where everybody's kind of guaranteed like 15 minutes per game and then based on how they're performing based on matchups based on the flow of the game you might get more right like you might get up that might be your 25 minute per game night and it evens out to be 20 but I I expect a ninan rotation you know like Hood N9 or 10 that's about where I'm comfortable I I personally prefer nine where at least those four guys know how many minutes they're getting in the games they're playing um but I I do expect a deeper rotation but when it comes to you know someone like Jaylen Tyson I don't expect him to be in that opening night rotation unless there's a trade between now and then I think that's fair um and I think it's more more interesting to ask you know where where would those minutes come from if he were to butt his way in and you know if you take the starting five you take okoro you take Caris uh and you take Nang uh so there's your eight right there that I would expect to be kind of no doubters though I do want to have a Nang Wade conversation at some point this summer okay um but we weren't asked about that right now so I'm going to assume it's those eight and then for nine and 10 you have Sam Merill Tai jome Dean Wade Jaylen Tyson kind of all competing for that the the ninth and 10th spot if Dean's healthy I think he's going to be the ninth guy uh and so really I think it's one spot for those three guys Ty Jaylen Sam and that's just my read right now and no I don't think he'll win that job um however I do think there is a a very good chance for him uh depending on kind of how the season breaks for him to end up I think he could get up to that nin spot if things go well enough for him you know I think it's just GNA be a matter of taking advantage of his opportunities when he gets them yeah I think when it comes to Jaylen Tyson the path to him getting minutes obviously you know if Caris LeVert is still on this team that's probably his primary competition so it could be performance-based you know if Carris is in a bit of a funk or if there's a knee issue maybe they'll he steps into and you know this is us applying the logic of what we've seen from rotations and substitutions in the past where sometimes a guy would go go from not playing to playing a pretty significant role in filling in that gap for the guy that they're replacing I don't know if it would go all that way if you know Caris missed some time uh and all of a sudden Tyson's playing that type of minute load uh especially with someone like Ty Jerome who we haven't even talked about that like I I think he's going to be in competition for some of those shooting guard and ball handling duties as well so I I think it would need to be a combination of maybe some injuries or you know guys being in a funk and trying to get a different look but the other factor that could play into his favor as well is at least when you look at the roster currently there's not a ton of depth behind Moy like there is Wade there is Nang uh I think both of those guys are going to feature prominently within the rotation but if there's some injuries or if there's some inconsistency there I wouldn't be surprised to see Jaylen Tyson play some small ball for and opportunities open up for him at that position yeah I just think he's in a really good spot to glom on the minutes you know you mentioned the the the chunk of minutes even if you're not like a top nine guy in the rotation you know you think of cpj last year where when the rotation was injured in in a specific way in which they really needed Craig he could play 25 minutes and then even if you know one guy above him was hurt he still might not get to play because they had Darius and Donan there and you know he just wasn't needed as much so I think that is a pretty reasonable outcome for for Jaylen though again I would really love to see him challenge every single one of those guys that I listed in front of him for every scrap minute he they that he can yeah absolutely and in a roundabout way we answered our buddy Toby's question from the Discord about the projected role for Tyson to start the season I I just don't think he's going to fin uh feature prominently within the rotation to start the year but we could get to his next question which is who among the three two-way guys has the better Pathway to get promoted this season uh I'll start this one off just noting that at this time even though there is reporting that JT Thor uh has signed with the Cavs still not an official transaction yet so uh we don't know for sure that he's on the team so uh out of the two guys uh that we know for sure Luke Travers and ammani Bates I think there's more of a path for Luke Travers but if JT Thor were to sign you know either a two-way or a regular contract with the Cav I'd give him the edge just because he's especially if he signs a regular contract yes yes especially if he signs that would really give him the edge to get a roster spot well here's the reason why I no it it says yeah okay that's a good point because the question was about being promoted I will say this he would have been someone that I'd be fine with signing for the minimum because he is someone that is the same age as Jaylen Tyson he's someone that is a very good athlete he's someone that you know showed promise shooting the three-pointer I like I think he's an NBA caliber player already so I would give him the nod over anyone else theoretically so if I'm okay with him as you know the 15th uh man on the roster I would most certainly be okay with him as a two-way spot yeah I think it's the no doubter if if he ends up signing on a two-way uh you know teasing you about a a verbal flub aside uh cuz like again he's played he's played you know like uh if you're signing uh if you're converting a two-way at the end of the season it's probably to be a break class in case of emergency playoff player uh and uh and I certainly would I mean maybe by mid year I'll change my mind but for now it'll definitely be Thor that I would pick yeah yeah I I totally agree in well because we short changed Toby just a little bit here we'll go with another question from him injuries is aside who will have more impact this season Sam or Ty I'm Gonna Let You Go first because I think I know your answer but I want to hear it first I think I'm going to go with Tyrome um I I think it is going to be fairly close uh I really enjoyed the interview with Sam Merill on lock on cast today with Danny Cunningham shout to Danny good get yeah really good get really good interview um I thought it was interesting that Sam was kind of highlighting some of you know adding to his game after being run off the three-point line you know just not feeling comfortable or like he had worked on that in between game the floaters the the decision making in those spots I think that would be really helpful but I think when I look historically at Kenny ainson offenses they have a lot of guys that can create there there's a lot of playmaking juice within those lineups and um they attack you in a variety of ways and I think when it comes to Tai Jerome assuming that he's healthy you're talking about someone that has better size than saman Marill at 65 someone that has a reputation of being a solid defensive player that doesn't turn the ball over that is a very good shooter from outside I just think he helps make a lot of lineups make sense especially when you're talking about um th those kind of staggered minutes when the starters are split up I think he's someone that fits really well with both of the guards and can make life easier for just about everybody Sam can obviously do that as well with the shooting but I'm going to give the not to Tai yeah I I'm not surprised you you pick Tai and I think especially given kind of the way you you lean near the end of the year just kind of evaluating those onoff numbers that and you know this is a Tai Jerome uh fan podcast both of us really like him and I was my instinct was to pick him however I did think and these aren't the same types of players but I did think about the fact that when you're when you're a coach installing a new offensive system as Kenny ainson is it's nice to have a couple Comfort sets Comfort uh things that you know you you can kind of install right away and know you can count on and I think about the way that he used Joe Harris in Brooklyn um as his like designated shooter and obviously Joe Harris is bigger than Sam was a more capable Defender you know a little bit better as playmaker um but I just wonder if like having that designated capital S shooter role is something that Kenny's going to want you know Tai is a good shooter but he's not like a movement shooter like Sam I mean I I think Sam is a 90 998th percentile type of three-point shooter and I just wonder if when the chips are down or you know he's he's he's doing a lot of teaching having a guy who can just like hey run my set exactly as I have it on paper and like knowing that Sam can do the same kind of things that Joe Harris was doing for them just a thought um but I do think it's kind of a toss up but if I had to pick I would pick Sam yeah I I think your logic is very sound there um the thing that just comes to mind for me when I I'm thinking about the those staggered lineups where you know you're going one guard and one big at least one guard in terms of uh Donovan or Darius you can kind of get those guys some easy catch shoot opportunities if you have someone like Ty Jerome running the point and Ty also has familiarity with Kenny right like they were together in Golden State I I think you know that going back to your familiarity Point having a point having a point guard that you've worked with uh can go a long way and I I think when you talk about off ball shooting Darius and Donovan can absolutely kind of fill that role while giving you more obviously right like their their ability to impact the game is a little more multifaceted than Sam so I just think you're you're correct I could see it going that way I I agree that Sam Marill can bring all of that I just think he's more likely to be the the spark plug that you know will have an impact at times where Tai is the more consistent presence within the rotation yeah I mean it's absolutely Fair uh I I again I do think it's a uh it's a tossup yeah it it's it's going to be interesting cuz you know they really do have a lot depth we we talked about the this uh recently but going from bottom of the league to 15th in the league in terms of bench production in a year where your starters were missing so much like that goes to show that you know there was an improvement there there was some depth there and if Tai Jerome can get healthy and Jaylen Tyson can uh you know come in and make an impact as a rookie and Sam's already kind of established himself I think those three guys can bring a lot of options and decisions for Kenny and the coaching staff to make that you know weren't necessarily there all of last year right like it almost feels like we're back to a luxury standpoint I'm going to knock on wood right now because we said that about the point guard rotation last year and we saw how quickly that can change uh our buddy Reese asks which role guy had uh years which rooll guy who had years ranging from fine to tough okoro Carris and yang do you think comes into the season with a little more juice um I mean I think the easy answer is George who um will get graded on a curve that I think is actually positive for him because his playoffs were so rough that you know I think it sort of obfuscated that he was pretty good the last couple months of the season um yeah yeah he really was and the other thing that obfuscated that was the fact that the Cavs weren't very good when George was playing his best ball you know just like they happen to be going through a Wayne period while he waxed so it was like I I think it everyone was just grumpy at all times while he was doing good things yeah so I feel like I feel like he is kind of best suited he also has a year of familiarity he's had an off season of prep knowing what he kind of needs to do to succeed within this roster construct I also expect the offense to be healthier under Kenny Atkinson which only benefits a guy like George who I thought you know just itest took more difficult movement threes than he had to take in years past you know I've said a lot about how you know playing with embiid is really valuable for a guy like George because he draws a double team before you do anything before he makes his move so you just get a lot of wideopen set Jumpers in an offense like that where I think the Cavs had to work to move him a little bit more last year so I I think with all those reasons I think I think he will probably have the best perception from year to year um of the three yeah and obviously you know It's Tricky just because Isaac isn't necessarily sign signed I do think that if the offense looks the way I expect it to look with with you know more people initiating more movement more Tempo uh and more structure that's someone that that's a type of system that would benefit someone like aoro who who you know does get out and transition who finishes really well in transition and at The Rim that has good instincts as a cutter and makes good reads in those situations and uh who you know at times and particularly in the playoffs floated and and didn't really seem to know what he needed to do and and was having issues asserting himself that's something that can be mitigated sometimes with with structure so I do think you know assuming that Isaac is back I think that he could really benefit but I think George is the easy answer there uh got to say looking good in you know the workout videos we we talk about Moy looking good in the workouts George looks really good as well uh you know friend of the podcast so I hopefully he can have a an impactful season because you know that stretch four is something that we still really need when you talk about maximizing those minutes when the the core four and uh the starting five isn't out there having someone that can perform that role really really is a benefit absolutely man I'm I'm excited to see how all three do next year and you know and Carris by the way we didn't mention him but first off I didn't really think he had a bad year I thought he was pretty good uh for the most of the year um and honestly Isaac had a really good year too like if if he would have got injured right before the playoffs I I think the perception of him would have been totally different but just some stinky playoffs and those are those are sometimes hard to wash off off offensively for rooll guys uh with that said I did want to just mention Carris is reuniting with a coach where he had the most success he ever had um so you know uh that there is a that is one reason why it might be Carris and not George as we both picked I'll push back just a little bit I think kris's last couple years have been his best all around years but I I I know what you're saying I'm comfortable with that that's fine I don't need argue this one yeah no we're we're we're going we're going all in the next 40 minutes are dedicated to our guy Caris uh our buddy speaking of our guys Pastor A-Rod from the Discord asks if you could pick one role player from Cass history and put them on the current team who would you pick Carter I'm going to put some rules and regulations on this one nobody that has made an All-Star team nobody that has made an All-Star team I'm going to make you go first because that's a new role in regulation okay so it's tough because there's so many good players to pick from like I when I think of perfect role players I think of you know my guy Delante West I think I think of prime Tristan which you know if I can put Prime Tristan on this team that would be a luxury to have him with ja but I'm actually going to go with an old speaking of friends of the podcast I'm going to go with an old buddy in Larry Nance Jr just because we need some depth at the four there's no real stretch fours that I could pick from that like weren't an All-Star right like I can't pick Kevin love as much as I love Andy that's a a complicated fit Larry doesn't have that consistent three-point range but he does have kind of the ball skills to make that work and can play both the four and the five and he just be good for the vibe so I'm I'm going to go with Larry here uh yeah they're not a lot of stretch fours that fit the bill but there is a stretch five that fits the bill Justin give me Channing fry give me Channing yeah no not Spencer hws uh no uh I don't know if Channing fry is the absolute no doubt best you know former role player that could be that could fit onto this roster but he does he would solve the thing that I've been kind of obsessed with which is what would a stretch five look like on this roster especially in a backup uh position I was you know I think like this Cavs team would actually be in a better place to insulate channing's defensive uh you know ups and downs than those championship teams were you're right uh so like I just I I think he would be a guy who could play next to Jared or uh or Evan because Jared and Evan are so switchable and versatile guarding the perimeter um and you know he would just give our lineup like an absolute bomber um that would just kind of make everything easy for everyone I so rarely agree with you but I think you actually swayed me I I think Channing is the better pick here uh I I will change my answer to Channing and you know and what a Vibes guy a legendary Vibes guy alltime Vibes guy so Larry's going to have to settle for the honorable mention when it comes to this the tricky thing is like you would just love to be able to pick you know like a small forward with with size and 3D capabilities and all that but never heard of her it's just you know it's LeBron and then like you just don't have enough any other options like you could go Larry n senior but he was an All-Star at one point so you know um going to be looking through the rosters from the 1970s yeah you're going a little bit too far back and and that DAV complicated call it in Mike from Twitter asks it looks like the Cavs have moved on from Isaiah Moy have you guys heard anything about where he will be playing I think this is a great opportunity and just kind of a launching off point to just kind of remind people or or those that are new to the podcast we don't do reporting neither of us know how to do reporting we have no ability to kind of source things uh even though we have you know this partnership with the Cavs that we are incredibly appreciative of but with that said I did talk to Isaiah's agent no I didn't um we we we do not bother the team with that they they give us the space to you know just kind of sit here and give our takes uh it's why we really appreciate the work that the you know the beat reporters do uh that that cover this team that uh you know give us kind of the stories and the insights that we aren't able to get uh so I don't have any information there uh like my best guess is you know he's probably looking for two-way opportunities around the league and if those aren't there you know hopefully he's back with the charge right like you don't have to be on that two-way contract to be playing with the team uh we we've seen that you know in the past with some of these guys so I I'd like to see him around but uh it does seem like the two-way spots are likely spoken for at this point yep shouts shouts to Isaiah good uh good Cavalier good developmental crack um I I I liked the pick when it happened and you know didn't quite Flash the way we wanted to when he got minutes with the big Club but hey that's what two ways are for absolutely the real true treasure on Twitter asks what do you want to see from the remaining two three roster spots I like Moses Brown for backup center how would you guys feel about one of Nas little or EJ Liddell for the backup four spot Carter oh man it's tough because they really do need a backup five um you know and if assuming Isaac comes back I think you still need to sign an actual backup five with some heft just to eat some minutes eat innings for you and the regular season like you know I don't think you're going to have a oh we lost Evan or Jarrett for the year and we're going to be okay cuz we signed this guy you know like I think you know you don't you don't practice screwed over uh and you're probably screwed if either of those guys go down for the year um but like I think you need someone to eat some minutes I think Moses Brown is a perfectly fine uh idea you know um uh and really just any veteran backup five you know uh you could either go with Moses Brown who's a little more spry but has also loged plenty of years in the league now where there's probably no Unearthed Talent there that you don't that has been unseen until now or run it back with Tristan or or a player like Tristan I I really like javil McGee still um and then then you just run I would be okay with jav I actually like jav a lot um uh even though you know he's getting near the end of his career as well the problem uh to get to the second half of the question which is Nas little EJ Liddell super fun Flyers uh you know Liddell I would like more on a two-way uh than uh than on a on a big boy contract uh but Nas little I think is a particularly Valuable Player you know who definitely I think is worth a shot at the minimum but then you kind of look into the roster intricacies of what the Cavs are dealing with how close they are to the tax line it's like if it's between signing a backup five that can actually eat those minutes like JaVale um or signing a higher upside player that I'd probably like more in Nas little I still have to feel like I got to lean towards roster construction at that point and pick the center because it's also worth noting sorry for the little ramble here Justin but we have if if I got on your case for Rambles like you you would have unlimited ammo against we would we would devolve into into chaos but the other thing to consider here Justin is that they don't have any uh uh projected fives in their two-way slot cuz in years past you could say oh well we have Isaiah Mo we have Pete and ANS they they could they could eat up some some minutes here they don't even have that so I think they have to sign a center do you agree with that I do yeah I think you absolutely have to sign a center um at this point it's Dean like I I think Dean's kind of the the backup emergency big and that's never felt good to me no no it's you know statistically it's worked but I I still don't love that um as a consistent look um you know I still if I could would love a 4 five more than a true five um I just don't think a lot of those guys are out there you know going back to the previous question if we could put Larry on this roster or someone that you know and Isaiah Stewart you know the these kind of stretch four FES I would love a a player like that but you know realistically they're not on the market right now so I I think you do kind of have to settle for um a true Center and when it comes to NAS little like that's someone that I remember last offseason I was really interested in bringing into the mix um I will say about EJ Liddell like he's still working his way back from a very serious injury and there's only so many developmental minutes left right like Darius is still going to need some Mo's getting a bunch Isaac if he's back is going to be getting some and like let's let's sign Harry Giles and like Nas little is shorter and smaller than Jaylen Tyson like we were talking about is Jaylen Tyson going to get minutes there is no scenario where I want to give Nas little minutes over jayen Tyson uh the the playmaking ability that he has uh just the rounded out skill set with the track record of a jumper is all stronger than NZ little at this point so if I'm giving developmental minutes to a player within that archetype I'm going to the first round pick that we don't believe is going to be part of the opening night rotation unless he really makes a strong impression so um that's a great Point dude I I hadn't really thought about that with nas um yeah and and and sometimes as front Ops you almost have to save your coaching staff from themselves cuz even if Nas is better than Jaylen Tyson right now like he might just be a more sound Defender but and he's not going to make mistakes and sometimes you know coaches will go towards that no we we we need those developmental reps we we need to give those guys the opportunity because you know it is going to be a battle for those minutes you are going to be getting uh contributions for a lot of guys and it's going to be a lot of tough decisions and you know it's it's always nice to get that kind of help it's nice to get that kind of support Zoom provides that and you know Zoom has another way of providing that great great support these days because only you can do your best work Carter Zoom AI companion can help you do the rest like automatically taking notes answering meeting questions and helping you respond to your coworker available at no cost with eligible paid plans work happy with zoom AI companion I'll say it I thought you were lost on that segue on the way in really yeah yeah I I you know I I typically I'm defaulting to the support support it's brutal I was actually watching you try to piece your way to it because it's like like our muscle memory you know we're so tied uh to to to the word support and I think we got to find our new like trigger word yeah working in that only you can do your best work that's that's going to take some time that's going to take some effort that's going to take some long hours in the gym you know how uh you know when actors like do a different accent for a movie and they have like a dialect coach they always have like their one phrase or their one word that like grounds them in the accent that's what we need for our ad reads and in order for us to thrive I like it I I'm going to start working on that uh in my downtime and and hopefully that can become more seamless in the future our buddy waji asks are you concerned about the lack of big man de yes you know we got into that a little bit but yes um you know when Dean Wade is kind of the you know currently the backup big uh the backup five I don't think that's an ideal spot and again this ties into the roster not finished we're probably going to see a move before training Camp almost I'd say almost certainly going to see a move before training camp um but yes at this time I would like to to see another body added to the mix yeah I'll be worried till I see someone I'm not like panicking because I assume they're going to sign someone but uh yeah until until until I see that uh that uh report hit hit my uh timeline then I will I will feel nervous but H lot of lot of lot of folks I'm still I'd be still happy to see on the market still it's still a month before Camp begins so know it's going to take a little bit of time from Twitter Jose appreciator says would you like to see more Dean wa at the three this year or potentially starting to get more size on the court me in particular no um I really love Dean way as a four um I know he's had some success kind of spots starting at the small four position I do think and this is you know a rant they've had before but I think so often when people talk about adding size at the wing it always seems to come from the lens of let's get more size let's you know fix the defense and we just haven't had those defensive issues so I especially when you're talking about a Kenny ainson offense at least looking historically what it is having guys that can initiate guys that that can create at you know the one through three has always been really really important to those offenses and I like Dean Moore as that four especially you know if the lack of big men depth is you know still kind of an issue I I prefer going with guys like Max dreu Carris lever Isaac o Coral Jaylen Tyson uh you know having Ty Jerome or or Sam Merill in the mix and that's shoving guys over to the three I'd rather go that route especially if the defense continues to hold like if there is defensive issues in the future and you know uh having 66 guys or 65 guys at small four position becomes an issue then maybe we can readdress it but right now I think fixing the offense is more of the focus and you know the defensive concerns until it actually is an issue like if it wasn't an issue against the Boston Celtics when you're down Jared Allen I just don't think it's going to be an issue you know that Meme of the guy sweating standing over two buttons that have like two different options yes that's me right now with one button that says more positional size and another button that says better fits for what the team actually needs cuz I really love the idea every time someone says Dean wait at the three I'm just kind of licking my chops I'm geeked cuz T typically what that means is that Dean is shooting well enough to play at the three means which means he's kind of going through one of his hot stretches there and I also selfishly love the way it allows Evan to play defense I feel like when the team is smaller positionally even when Evan is playing with Jarrett there's a lot more focus on clean up rather than being a devastating remover of options you know and so something I really like about Dei the 3 is it allows you to be a little switcher allows Evan to uh to play a little more free safety knowing you would just have a little bit more positional size um so I like all these things but I still think you're right you know I think I think those are things I like in things you know but I think for the overall needs of the roster and for the roster to hit its like highest ceiling it probably involves more Dean at the four I certainly don't want to bench max so I mean I didn't even really want to engage with that uh in terms of starting uh but you know as a curveball I really like it and I it's not that I I certainly would still like to see it especially in certain matchups and and to what you said earlier about you know Max being that kind of onoff God for the cast right like if the lineup data continues to say like this is working and this is when they outscore opponents by you know their largest margins like you know stick with that but I do think you know that's going to be one of my big questions going into next year is how much of that does translate right like just because you know there is a coaching change and we're assuming positive changes you never know what you know there there's give and take there's only so much energy you can expend uh within a basketball game and sometimes you know the energy you're contributing to the offensive end can take away from your defense or you know playing at a different pace is going to mean you're no longer in the half court as frequently defensively and maybe there's some issues there so you know those stylistic changes in the impact they have it still kind of remains to be seen which you know Z says asks on Twitter Outsider results and statistics what stylistic differences do you expect Cav fans will notice the most under Kenny ainson and do you think there will be noticeable differences on offense and defense it's a great question and the framing takes away so many cheap easy answers you know outside of results and stats you know what what what differences do we expect to see and I I think he he knows I'm a dork and I'm going to be talking lineup at all the time so I'm joking because you know my first instinct was to dive into those those two kind of fields so you know it actually kind of challenged me to think like what do I actually want to see and I think in at at its core I want to see high post action for The Bigs and I whenever we see a main action happening I want to see some decoy action or off Ball action on the weak side that are leveraging Darius and Donovan whoever is off ball at the time so they can get the ball with Advantage at a higher percentage I felt like the back half of the Year there was a lot of just every possession had to be initiated by either one of those two dudes from zero and just catching uh curling off a pin down as opposed to you know D walking the ball up to run a pick and roll I just think it gives them that that 5% uh advantage that really helps them overcome some of the limitations they have especially from a size perspective so that I think is the Crux of really what I want to see defensively I frankly hope they run it back I love the way this team plays defense um especially when they're all locked in and working hard um but offensively I guess that would would be my answer yeah I I think when it comes to the Cavs offensively I do expect them to play with more Tempo um I think all kind of your expectations from a structural standpoint are sound and I expect to see that but I really what I hope to see and I don't know if we're going to see this is that you know they do play with more Tempo and there seems to be more of a flow to the offense right where okay option b didn't go our way we didn't generate the advantage we wanted to see we know what option C and option uh or option b and option C are right like we we're able to go through each of the sets each of the motions and there isn't as much kind of confusion and standing around right and I think that was just too evident especially late in games and I I still think some of that's self-inflicted when it comes to Donovan Darius but I really do think them getting out of running at Mobly you know handling the ball in transition um just just more movement and more purpose with with how they they run their sets I don't even think there's going to be a massive difference in terms of the type of sets they run like I do think that we're still going to see a lot of split cut actions W with these guys because you know that there was that influence coming from Golden State already with Luke Walton right like and we saw a lot of that being run but we didn't see them stick with it consistently and you know I I just think there wasn't that kind of second nature understanding of okay what what is our second and third look in all of these sets so I I expect to see that kind of change and I I think you would feel that right like it it we we saw too frequently that the Cavs were a team that got out in transition that generated those opportunities in the past but it still felt like they were playing slow and they were still playing slow overall just because of how slow they played in the half court I don't think that's going to be the case and I think everything you said about you know the guards getting easier looks uh and off ball opportunities and not having to start from zero that I really am excited to see and hopeful that I will see yeah and to the PACE point I'll tell you what if uh if they don't play faster in the half court we will have once and for all confirmation that these dudes just ain't want to do it you know because you know you know it's going to be a second coach that's that's saying this stuff to them and getting in their ear about it and you know and sometimes you know I one thing I would caution listeners not to do is to go oh D JB wanted to play Slow the whole time you know sometimes the same coach can be saying the same thing and then a different coach comes in and says the same thing and then they listen to the second guy you know it's just you know it's it might just be you know more faith in the system or you know or more maturity in development you know seeing it didn't work twice in the playoffs right two years in a row that hey like we keep running into this brick wall why are we walking towards the wall right like we can run past it yeah absolutely so I I don't know I'm I'm excited to see those stylistic changes good question yeah uh another question from ree in the Discord if you could pick one which would you pick for the regular season weak start and strong finish strong start and weak finish or relatively steady um probably a weak start Strong finish because that's easy to explain away from um you know from a getting a new coach acclimated standpoint though you know I might go the other way because do think this team needs some really a really strong statement of play um the one thing I'm actually not crazy interested in is relatively steady um which is funny because you would think that would be the easiest answer because there's no downside to it but something that I think is most important for this Cavs franchise right now is to show to give glimpses into ways their ceiling can be raised right now I think they are relatively steady uh as as a franchise especially in comparison to the turmoil going on around the league all their top four guys all their top five guys are locked up to long-term deals you know they're running back 13 guys from their roster from last year most likely at this point so it's like steady I got steady I want to see I want to see your like I I have not got steady I don't know where you got steady I I'm talking over a threeyear sample size we have steady okay that is what I'm saying and what's most important to me is that I see this team's knockout punch be as good as the best teams in the league I did not see that last year I only saw it during a stretch where we were missing two of our four best players and playing some of the worst teams in the league I want to see a stretch like that uh kind of like that stretch from two years ago when we went to Denver and beat them you know and like had all these like statement wins the win against the Clippers in La like I want to see stretches like that those are to be more important to me than oh they had three bad weeks at the front end or back end of the year so you're going to accuse me of cheating here um because I would argue that the Boston Celtics last season were very steady they started very good and they were really good throughout that is cheating and I'm not interested in the rest of your answer and you can improve while being steady you can get you know it's just not exponential improvements throughout that so I I lean that way um um because you know boo this man this coward I don't want I don't want weak start and strong finish um I I would worry that a weak start and strong finish could lead to you know a big kind of shake up at the deadline or something like that right like I I I do think you're right that you need to make a statement at the start of the year and I guess we have seen you know if you don't finish particularly strong um that doesn't always translate to the playoffs we see that time and time again how you fin finish a regular season really doesn't have a lot of indicators it's why you know March record tends to be the least meaningful when you kind of look historically month by month so maybe I would say strong start and weak finish but I guess I my follow-up question before I committed to one would be how strong and how weak right like how low is the low because if it's you know if you are playing at a meteoric pace and you just kind of go just above five 00 to close out the season and you wind up with with 55 56 wins I'll take that I'm I that would be my choice I I would like that you know show up I if you're showing up and you're playing well against the best teams in the league and you're still winning some of those statement games but you have some let Downs you lose to Chicago and it's annoying or a Toronto loss that that drives me nuts like that kind of stuff I can live with um but I do want to see the highs at some point this season because I just don't think that we saw that and you know if if you're putting a gun to my head I I'll I'll probably lean strong start and and weak finish as long as you're not talking about like just a total Tail Spin because that that goes beyond week yep I think that's fair and it's a tough question even though you tried to completely Dodge it which is uh reprehensible it's also part for the course that is my default I I will sit on some fences and I will find my way to weasel out of a tough question uh depressed ISU asks what are your expectations next season for Darius Garland you go first this is your boy I expect him at the very least to give actually I don't expect him to go back to 22 23 I I expect him to take the leap that he should have taken last season that that probably would have happened if it wasn't due to injuries um I will die on this hill I think last season was the result of injuries I think he had steadily been getting better and better and we just flat out didn't get to see any games last year with him fully healthy um I understand that you know I do have concerns that you know the track record for injuries is getting a little tougher I have those concerns for both guards right like Donovan's missed more games than Darius the last four or five years here like that's that's kind of concerning when when we're concerned about Darius as well um but I do expect him to take the step forward that that we were going to see last season I firmly believe we were going to see last season and you know when you're talking about when you talk about the optimized version of this team and the you know if they can find a path to contention or at least you know competing uh amongst the contenders I think the way that that looks is Evan Mobley being the most impactful player on the team Donovan being the leading scorer and the leading play finisher and that guy that steps up in the big moments and you know closes games out and I think it's Darius an assertive Darius that is aggressively initiating the offense I think as Evan Mobley gets better the more assertive Garland's going to need to be because he might get fewer kind of touches or or scoring opportunities he's not going to be able to pass them up like he has in the past when when someone goes under he's going to need to take those shots and I just think he's the most talented playmaker on the team and whether that means you know second or third leading score I don't really care because I I think the best version on this team has Darius and Moy pretty close when it comes to that but I do think that he needs to be the primary initiator of the offense and doing so in an assertive manner yeah I mean my expectation for Darius Garland is that he is the point guard for this team um you know I think you did a really great work during the last postseason kind of tracking his touches per game and the way that he really became a really aggressively off ball player you know at at times just completely cut out of the of the offense altogether you know there were points where Max truce had more touches per game than him and you know I think that you that is the future then you know I just don't know what they're doing with the core you know I think they really have to sink or swim um letting Darius be Darius and do things that make Darius special um now of course like some of the some of these things are natural adaptations Darius was hurt all year you know his back was you know we we saw him at at those playoffs games sitting on the sitting on the wedge um you know yeah with a bad back so like sometimes you have to just because like playoffs you can't worry about anything but winning and sometimes that means you got to say DJ you're not quite right we just need you to be a decoy on these plays for a while and we've got to let dere Donnie run the point but I think when the team's fully healthy if Darius isn't running the point isn't really leading and orchestrating then I think we've kind of lost the plot and like that would be a big negative indicator for me so that would be my expect is Darius is the true blue no doubt point guard for this team and I still think there's a lot of indicators too right like you talk about you know he did not have a good playoffs last year uh flat out was was not as effective as he needed to be I I thought he was fine against the Knicks um I didn't think he was you know good enough to to carry the team and you know Mobley had a very tough series Donovan had a really tough series by his standards I thought Darius was just kind of fine um but I do think that it's encouraging when you look at the playoffs like we have concerns over a Coral's ability to translate his game because he just kind of takes himself out of those settings the fact that you know you're down 01 against the Knicks and darus comes out with a a massive game super assertive you know wi wins that game is you know our best player in that one game that we won in that series that to me shows you know he's someone that's not afraid at the moment and is capable of contributing in that way game five against Orlando it's 22 highly pressur you know the probably the the highest pressure game that they had played into that point he comes out and he's awesome in the first three quarters of that game game seven you know awful awful game but he closes the game out in the the the fourth quarter Donovan trusts him with that shot uh I think he scored or created like 70% to 80% of the points in this fourth quarter of that game I got to rewatch game seven that that's got to be on my summer list H it's not as fun on rewatch it but I I will say there there are some good parts of it uh but I just think like those are are positive indicators right and you know even game four against Boston like I I thought he played a really really good game and and all him and Moy almost won that game against the defending champs like that's the kind of stuff that I think okay there's something there we can build upon that you know if he doesn't I I think that we would get to the point where that's a little bit concerning this year and you know if it looks like it did last season you have to kind of have some tough conversations but I really do think that it was primarily injuries you look at him in the runs he looks you know spry he looks confident he looks strong like he he was before and it's just so night and day physically different than what we saw I I just really really think that that you know we are in for the leap that should have occurred last season and the fact that we were as good as we were you know despite the season from hell I I think is encouraging and actually makes me lead makes me want to ask you a question that's not here on the rundown were we too low in our expectations for the Cavs heading into the last two preseason because both years we talked about you know avoid the plan two years ago was avoid the plan make a first round Series last year it was win a series and show that you could compete in the second round the Cavs achieved our goals like as Homer Optimist like we are they achieved what we set out in the preseason the the of bar that was set by the podcast and it still felt like hey there was something there were we just being too low on the team were we handling with them with kid gloves like I I really do think that you know just that sense that there was something more with this current roster and they still accomplish the goals that we set out makes me wonder were we just too low on them uh the the last two years so I've actually was thinking about this very uh topic uh well in a roundabout way uh earlier this afternoon as I was thinking about this podcast which is that so my answer here is that I think that for the last two years the team's expectations and goals have actually been almost perfectly aligned what what we should expect of the team and what the team should want have been almost exactly aligned going into the year so when you achieve your goal when they're perfectly aligned I think that there's a little bit less of a high and a little bit of like oh well you know why weren't we One Step you know wouldn't it be great to be one step further along uh whereas I think this year is the first year where their goals should actually be different from their expectations I think I think that this is a team that their goal 100% should be to make the Conference Finals I think that is I think that is really what they should come out as a team and go hey we made it the second round last year let's get to the final four this year um whereas I think where their expectations lie is probably around the same result I think most folks have them as the fourth or fifth best team in the East yeah and you know when you're the fourth and fifth best team in the East it's great to be make the second round so I think it's really the first year where there's that misalignment and it'll actually be in a weird way a little bit easier for me at least to root for them because you know I think it's a disaster if you don't meet your expectations but if you don't meet your goal we're we're at the point now where the goal is just so much harder like it's way harder to make the Conference Finals than it is to duck the play in tournament so it's like it's one of those things where for me it won't be catastrophic if they don't hit their goal uh where it would be a pleasant surprise to me if they hit their goal I think that's where some of those feelings come the last couple years and why it'll at least be a little different for me this year it's interesting too because it aligns with the goals that they've set out on media day too right like people have said you know they made the Donovan trade to be a contender right away that that wasn't what was said it was we we want to you know we want to avoid the plan we want to make the playoffs and give these guys experience last year it was we want to win a round of the playoffs right like I I I think you know whether those arguments are in bad faith or not like it just doesn't align with what the the team has been saying and I do think you know maybe us setting the goals where we have the last couple years was just kind of an acknowledgement and maybe with a team as well that you know you are going to go through growing pains with a young team and even though we've seen the highs and we know what this team can accomplish we know what this this you know core can do when they're all playing at their best despite knowing that we know that there are going to be some bumps along the road and that might be why we've seen you know the this level of run it back which you know really is uncommon but it it with it aligns with like my favorite parts of team building right like the the internal development and you know kind of falling in love with a team and seeing can can they find like can they learn from their experiences rather than just kind of swapping guys in and out of the the lineup like this is the type of team building that I really love I will disagree with you just a little bit here Carter I think you know their expectation should be to make a Conference Finals like I I agree like that's that's where the the bar should be set I think their goal should be winning a championship like I I really do think that this is the first year where even if it's a 5% chance and you know you need some breaks to go your way I if this season ended with a championship I would be a little shocked but I wouldn't be sitting here or not I shouldn't say a little shocked I I would be shocked but I wouldn't be sitting here saying there was no scenario where I thought that this was possible I do think that there is a a small chance that that it could be possible this season obviously that should not be the expectation there's a lot of teams that they have to prove that they are first on their level and then that they can beat them but I do think that there this is the first year where I truly believe that there is an outside chance of that yeah I think that I think really at that point it's more of a semantics argument because I would say their stretch goal should be to win a championship but their attainable goal should be to get you know get to the Conference Finals like you know um but the fact that you think their expectation should be to make the Conference Finals I will push back on because okay the reality is I would not be advocating for you know I think when if if if they don't make the Conference Finals I could see a billion outcomes where that happens where I don't go oh man this this this build of the team is in big trouble you know and that's what I think has to be an existential crisis like thatal a failure I do think like it would be a failure but I don't think it's like a blow it up type failure just because you know right now they are going to be behind in a lot of people's eyes Boston New York Philadelphia and Milwaukee right like they need to prove that they're on that level but I I think internally the belief should be we are on their level we can beat them we can make a Conference Finals yeah I again I think now we're just getting back into the semantics but I certainly and also there is a degree to which I just think upgrading on a gentler curve maybe it's just where I think the team is relative to you um but like also like it kind of reflects my general contentment with where the team is which like I think a lot of people like don't agree with but I'm mostly like yeah I'm cool to be the Memphis Grizz Le for a couple years um it was literally all we wanted all I wanted in the summer of 2018 after LeBron went we just wanted a that that was exactly what we wanted and damn it if I'm not intellectually consistent Justin two questions from Cory before we wrap this up I've seen a lot of Evan Mo's progress in live summer reps from video EV all from video evidence it looks like he has a tighter hander handle better self-creation and improv three-point shot based on these workout what these workout video shows what skill do you think will translate more this season a tighter handle and better self-creation or more catch and shoot three-point shooting and three-point volume uh I I'll answer this one quickly and just say I hope it's the I hope it's the former I hope it's the handle and the self creation CU again I do think that's the actual biggest problem with the team's offensive stra shape in the double big lineups is that they don't have enough ball handlers so if Evan can go from an okay dribbler for a four to a good dribbler for a four that would change everything yeah yeah and honestly I think you made the best point uh when you compared them to Zion where no one has these conversations about Zion who's a worse shooter than mobile from 3 and has made fewer threes than the mo in his career just because he's able to create he's able to get to the rim you don't need to have that stretch five next to Zion because of those self-creation abilities I think it's absolutely needs to be the handle if he's attacking the rim like that like I love to see you know the improved jumper I think we've seen the improved jumper over the last couple years uh he shot better from mid-range he shot you know a career best from three 37% I'd like to see that volume tip tip up but ultimately man like I I I don't want to see him taking more than like three threes a game anyways even if he does become a consistent shooter the handle is going to have more function and it's going to impact the team more on a game to game possession by possession basis so I will definitely say handle um and I guess the the second question from Corey kind of ties into this which is uh there is a lot of talk about our best lineups being the one guard and one big because the lane is clogged less clogged and we have more Shooters out there however our starting five is our best players individually could the solution to maximizing our starters and solving the spacing issues being Moby having the ball in his hands at the elbows top of the key and even the bringing the ball up that way his Defender is more pulled out to the Lane DJ Donovan and Max are able to draw Defenders uh because they are threats on three and Ja would be able to set ball screens for the guards or run uh four five pick and rolls thoughts um sounds great Cory yeah that ties into the handle like that ties into the the handle playmaking and self creation right like that is why we want it because it unlocks those type of solutions to the roster the one thing I'll say about that is it all sounds great but you still need guys to play north south whether that is Evan whether that's running some big big pick and roll with Jarrett whether that is dribble handoff with real intent but like I think there's sometimes you get into this idea of like oh he'll stand at the at the elbow and then we'll just run sets uh you know they'll just run different screens around the perimeter and we'll eventually get open but like teams that really want to get over those screens typically can and like sometimes you can get a little floaty just hanging around on the edge of the perimeter just running like kind of feeble pin down attempts you got to find ways to uh to get north south when you're playing that way um you know that's something that you know for all the love the Warriors get something they didn't do particularly well was generate a lot of fouls and get to the rim a ton you know they would they they kind of could get floaty at their worst so you have to kind of avoid that instinct though I mean to be clear Corey I I totally agree with you and that's exactly what I want to see this offense do more of we we we really hope so I'm excited to see what it looks like it'd be really nice if we got the leap that should have happened last season for Darius and the leap from Mo I mean I know I caught some flak last year doing our our season preview where I said I didn't expect uh moob to take a leap I got uh my my share from our our listeners in the Discord for that one especially with me normally being The Optimist but you know I'm a realistic Optimist at least in my eyes and I am being 100% serious when I do think that this is the first season in a while that could realistically end in a title I don't think it's going to happen this year but I do think this is a start of a run of this team seriously contending and I think the expectations need to shift to that so I'm excited to see what this season is going to bring I'm excited to be talking Cass and a big thanks to everyone that tuned in Live on YouTube make sure you guys like And subscribe click that notification Bell so you know when we're going live if you're listening via podcast and want support us leave us a rating leave review subscribe unsubscribe resubscribe and help cook those books if you want to be part of Chase Down's exclusive Discord chat send a screenshot riew to chased down poot gmail.com however you choose to support us we really do appreciate it make sure you guys are staying safe out there until next time go Cavs [Music]