SipTalk Ep. 257: Who's winning after the Harris v Trump debate?

[Music] all right we are live welcome to sip talk episode 257 my name is Justin de Julio joined by James the BOS boswa philosopher philander philanthropist fatalist I'm out of pH words we added a new one last episode so you'll have to check that one out because I have lost it now James how's it hanging in Sunny South Carolina not so out and dude night time you know what's actually really nice is like it's finally gotten to be like not balls hot every day here oh dude it's this September literally since the beginning of September has been like perfect weather it's like cool enough you can go out with the morning with a jacket on nice light jacket I'm enjoying this usually in South Carolina it doesn't like cool off until late September or early October so like I'm enjoying the fact that it's not 90s something degrees every day anymore yeah it's kind of nice to just be able to like be a human without climate control on the earth so I've had had some windows open lately it's ni you it's been like years since I've kind of been able to open Windows and just kind of exist you know move to San Diego it's like that every day well Manhattan you know if you open a window it's just way too [ __ ] loud in your apartment so um but here we are New Jersey South Carolina all right I'm gonna flip flip the script a little bit on you what are you drinking okay well let let me introduce the topic I get my drink I'm very excited for my drink um topic we were talking about uh Camala Harris and Donald Trump and this is post their first debate together however we we will get to my drink I am I try to bring a serving board in here and a cutting board I got quite the drink here today because I'm not drinking this month giving my liver because you know obviously we have a podcast about drinking and I probably drink more than most people I don't really believe I'm a true alcoholic in the sense I never like needing a drink but I do like to have a drink so in the spirit of time off the drink I'm GNA make myself a drink alcohol free minus about a 100th of a percent in the bitters so one of my favorite drinks to have when you're not drinking alcohol is Diet Coke all right I got a little Coke Zero here pour that in it's a dirty glass I prefer Dirty Glass when uh there's no alcohol in there it just gives me a little hair on my chest I don't know how dirty that is what I like to do is a couple of dashes of bitters now these bitters you can use your regular uh grocery store bitters but these are ginger bitters I'm going to put a couple of couple of dashes of bitters in here and uh the icing on the cake a little line and the funny thing is about this drink is I made one the other day and uh and anybody who tasted it would have sworn it was a cocktail here's my lime juice oh you know what I actually brought a lime squeezer I want to show for that no I will get a hell of a lot more lime juice out of this lime squeezer anybody who likes cocktails or likes uh lemon lime juice needs one of these devices these things I literally just squeezed the hell out of with my with my forearm strength and I just got like another three teaspoons of I mean I still prefer my countertop juice press um because I can get I I feel like I get more juice out of that and I just bottle it and it's good for a week or two all right so now we've got a drink that has no name and uh got a fancy glass I don't know how my audio is away from the microphone here I got a fancy glass I got no ice Dirty Glass because it's an alcohol free drink here and uh I don't know if you can see it on camera just looks like Diet Coke tastes like a mixed drink tastes like a cocktail now if I really wanted to like if I wasn't sitting the camera live here I'd have a nice big ice cube maybe a smaller rocks glass and uh like a little lime lime wheel on the top it would really look like quite the cocktail but I will tell you that is satisfying almost as much as a regular cocktail is plus by the way cocktails generally speaking are just really sweet drinks right they don't have to be well I mean generally speaking cocktails like you're covering up the taste and the flavor of the alcohol um with you're mixing other flavors so as far as I'm concerned this this does the trick is an alcohol not going to get you [ __ ] up uh I had dinner last night and ended up having like five or six Diet Cokes that was terrible um but I just drank Diet Coke like I was drinking beer um well speaking of beer I am drinking natural light to match my affect and demeanor which is always naturally light naturally light um so we we got we got a tall order here on uh on the podcast I assume that you watch the debate I watched it from start to finish did you I also watched it start to finish I watched a little pre-debate coverage a little post- debate coverage uh and I was really I wanted to watch the first debate with Biden and Trump but I was doing the blocks that week and I didn't really have access to TV during the the hours of debate so I watched some of the first debate between Biden and Trump maybe like the last 15 or 20 minutes and yeah it was pretty Crest falling at what I was watching so listen my me going into this debate the way that I've looked at this election so far is my thinking is 50% of the country is roughly 50% of the country is Democrat the other 50% Republican 50% Republican definitely voting for Trump 50% of the Democrats maybe voting for Biden it's more like 45 45 and then probably about 10% will vote one way or another depending on the election but see I was counting that 5% that were leaning Republican to definitely vote Trump and then that kind of five or 10 percent on the Democrat side maybe not voting for Biden and then and then now you have Harris place like you it's better to establish a floor and say there's 45 and 45 and then where elections are won and lost is your ability to sway that remaining 10 per. so rash asks what percentage uh are non voters well um let me get the research Department up on that one because I numers percentages the percentages we're talking about are percentages of people who are actually partaking voting um and Sassy classy Cassie says early for sober October well my birthday is in October and there's no way in hell I'm not having a drink in October all right so to answer rash's question um in 2020 voter turnout was about 66% of the voter El of the voting eligible population what's the number of Voters does it give you a number no is it less than 100 million I would assume some 60 like aund it was like 156 or 157 million because Trump got 76 million and Harris got not not Harris Biden got 81 million so you're already at 157 million throw in another little bit for people voting third parties and stuff you're probably around 160 million so here's so I went in saying here's uh kamala's opportunity to really gain some traction and ground and make Donald Trump look bad make herself look more more presidential now do you think she did now if you like Camala already in my experience in having spoken with people post debate if they liked Camala already they think they that she did that they're like oh yeah she won that she decimated him she was so presidential she was Regal and I'm like all right calm down pal uh and then the people that like aren't sold on her were like Yeah so basically Trump did what we expected Trump to do our opinion on Trump has not changed however she didn't change our opinion on either she you know I think she did a better job I actually think she you know if this if it was like uh an Olympic competition she or an actual debate uh she would have gotten more points she would have won but I don't think that she changed the minds of the people that weren't sure on her so I had a couple I had a couple takeaways from the debate um the first was that I felt like especially early on and less so as the debate continued that her responses felt somewhat canned and kind of just taken from like a stump speech I could agree with that I heard that my my second takeaway was that it was very clear that her strategy was to bait Trump into saying crazy and outlandish [ __ ] so we're going to we're going to bring in some uh some other opinions uh roughly halfway through the episode uh we I was speaking with the person who's going to join us and he actually thought I think they were both baiting each other but we were talking about how uh he was baiting her okay well we can get to that but let me finish point is I think it went both ways but go ahead um I think that her strategy was to try and highlight as as starkly as possible differences in demeanor and I think that the moderators could have done a better job in one key area which is Trump got the last word on every single issue they never gave her the last word on things and there were times where Trump interrupted the the moderators and and and forced his way into getting the last word and when she tried to do the same they said and now on to the next topic so I felt that they were unfair to Harris but here's I I noticed that as well and what I really noticed was he got the last word handed to him at the very end of the debate well so the last word handed to him at the end of the debate would have been something that would that was decided before the debate began that would have been a coin flip or something so the only time that I have no issue with getting the last word the first question was for her and the last question he got he got the end on I got that but it sorry I'll let you go ahead but I do feel like she didn't push his hard and I maybe that's the difference between a man and a woman which I suppose might be a conversation that might actually be relevant as well in terms of being a world leader I care less about that and I because like I think part of it was Harris wanted to make a point of her following the rules and keeping her composure which is why she didn't insist on getting the last word at any point and I think that the moderators did a really poor job like their job is to moderate and when one person gets every single last word I looked this up I actually did the research on this today to say like did she get the last word on any and no she never got the last word on any topic and so the moderators needed to give her at least a few and that that's a failure on their part now I will also commend them in a different aspect which is that they did step in and provide some factchecking when Trump said of the more the the the more ridiculous lies the easily disprovable and completely ridiculous lies and feel like they could have fact checked him more but I will but considering how little factchecking CNN did three months ago I will take the factchecking that they did do as a small victory for the moderators so I didn't see the last debate I know I I literally and and I was just I was too far behind I didn't even watch any Recaps and then by the time I had the free time to do it Harris was now uh running um but there was no audience there's no audience for either of them okay that was my question uh the thing is I think I think Trump really kind of feeds off of the audience uh so I felt like that was a a slight detriment to him um but that's probably a good thing in terms of leveling the playing field because it allows us to just hear each of them speak I think having debates with no audience is the right way to go I also like the muting of the mics I don't you but well I mean they didn't stick to it entirely they would kind of give people the the chance but the issue that I find when you don't mute the mics is oftentimes when one person is trying to make their point they can't even do it because they're being spoken over I mean yeah it's I I agree with you on that in terms of like the muting the mics certainly serves a purpose however I still will say keeping the participants of a debate under control is the role of the moderators and I think that instead of having the mics automatically muted I think that that's something that you should give the power to the moderators to do well then they they're almost refereeing and but that's what that's what you are moderator is a referee I get it but but it becomes it can become a little more biased in that in that respect I if you're a moderator your job is to moderate and do it as impartially as possible and there's always going to be times where someone's going to feel like a a referee's call is unfair I know that as well as anybody having been a referee I I would hate debate I would hate for at the end of the debate them to say oh you know this was really skewed by the referees by they already did that well they're they're going to do it anyways but right so if they're already going to do it anyways the moderators to do their job Cor properly the more power the moderators have the more likely you know the debate's going to the winner or loser the debate's going to be blamed on that um but I don't I mean whatever they muted the mics I don't you know maybe they could have done it differently um any other observations on the debate before we kind of break get into specific topics yes okay Trump for almost the entire debate just was angry he was angry in all of his in in every aspect of his demeanor was just some version of angry and I also felt like he didn't answer many of the questions directly or at all now Harris was guilty of that but I would argue to a far lesser degree um yeah you know I W was watching them and watching them react I didn't really see anything that really stood out you know like she kind of laughed a little bit to herself or you know shook her head a little bit uh he noded he he looked like Trump that is just kind of his resting [ __ ] face um at the end though when they flipped to JD Vance the expression on his face actually looked Sinister and I was like dude that's that's a creepy look on this okay here here I'm gonna give you and this is this is a from the transcript this is word for word what happened in the debate David Muir one of the moderators said to Trump let me just ask though why did you try and kill that bill successfully referring to the immigration bill from about 6 months ago that bill would have put thousands of agents and officers On the Border Trump first let me respond to the rallies she said people start leaving people don't go to the rallies there's no reason to go he continues on for a little bit he made a good point actually in that in that statement he said that she buses people in that don't even know what they're doing there oh yeah and the people she that do go she's busting them in paying there to to be there so first of all I don't know if there's any proof of that but I I mean I see it happen in in New York City and in Albany that they bust people in and these guys literally are just giving signs and have no [ __ ] idea what they're doing there all right so I don't want to get into that because I think that that's a very minor point the the like the he's responding to why did you kill the immigration Bill and he's talking about his rallies and then he continues and I'm skipping I'm skipping a little bit but then he says not relevant what because it's also not relevant to the question right like he he continues talking about his rallies and he just says our country is being lost we're a failing Nation continuing down he says a lot of towns don't want to talk about it because they're so embarrassed by it in Springfield they're eating the dogs the people that came in they're eating the cats they're eating they're eating the people of the PE of the the pets of the people that live there and this is what's happening our in our country and it's a shame and as far as rallies are concerned as far as the reason they go is they like what I say they bring our country back they want to make America great again it's a very simple phrase and he continues on for a little bit but at no point does he explain why he killed the bill and I think to me one of the like this was early on in the debate but David mu says like we talked to the city manager of that town and they say that they have no reports of this happening and Trump says but the people on the television say their dog was eaten by the people that went there mu again the Springfield cting manager says no evidence of that and it's like but just think about this like think about the crazy person that you've talked to that makes that that I'm sure you've ran into in New York City and Street saying yeah they're out to get but the people on the television said that you're like that that's that's crazy person talk so there's no other way to describe it than like well listen I thought it was it was very funny that he because I had already heard about JD Vance talking about Haitian immigrants eating dogs I looked it up it seemed to be baseless it's absolutely and then I it may be baseless but I feel like there was there must have been some phony news story or something that would have come across his radar That Was Then proved incorrect so nothing I thought it was very funny that he would double down and repeat it in there and then actually since then I've seen a video of kind of a crazy woman who was high on something was like killed and was like eating a cat in somebody's front lawn and maybe she was eating it who knows but also she happened to be Haitian but she was from the area she wasn't an immigrant right and also and I can't believe I have to say this but like it isn't even in Haitian culture to eat cats or dogs yeah exactly there are other cultures that do do those things but but not not Haitians not the Haitians yeah and so it's it's just a clear racist dog whistle and this he should have learned his lesson when he was saying talking all this [ __ ] about Asian people and Chinese people and then they were having kind of uh hate uh what's oh yeah during yeah that people were like attacking them right so by him saying that kind of stuff he's putting these people who have done nothing wrong in real danger of being victims of hate crimes because people are going to say and believe it he also even though it it's not true everyone says it's not true but because he keeps on repeating it there're going to be people that believe him but yeah also the same the same thing about the January 6 rally who somebody at some point I think it was Trump called it j6 I was like damn you got a [ __ ] nickname for it oh real quick so Kevin says there was a video of someone in Ohio but not Springfield carrying a bird walking down the street and it and Kevin says I believe it was like City Animal Control or like a roadkill cleanup crew and so th this is how easy it is to take something alter it slightly put it out of context and then tell a completely different story about it well that's what happened with a lot of voter fraud there like oh we got this picture this video of this guy carrying boxes out of the polling area and it's just like yeah they're it's garbage or it's whatever you know we interview or or it's we've already counted these votes so we're putting them into storage or this we just got a new delivery of votes that we need to count so they bringing him to the floor and so you take boxes yeah it doesn't just the context is is so but uh I guess we're kind of getting into some specifics well I want to get into some more well the one that I was going to mention um [ __ ] I totally lost my train thought uh go ahead go ahead for me actually one of the more troubling areas of the debate was when they were talking about Ukraine and and Russia yeah and I think I didn't find this troubling so I'm curious what it is so David mu says now I want to turn to the war in Ukraine we're now two and a half years into the con conflict and he continues for a little bit and the question he asked Trump yeah is do you want Ukraine to win this war that's the question that Trump has to respond to and Trump says I want the war to stop yeah he purposely said he he purposely not say that he wants ukra because he has ties and he's aligned with Russia and Putin um and he he goes on for a little bit a lot of bit but we go back around and and David we says your time is up just to clarify the question do you believe it's in the US best interest for Ukraine to win the war yes or no so we redirect to the Double Down in the same statement I want be over I think it's in the US best interest to get this war finished and done all right negotiate a deal because we have to stop these human lives from being destroyed so yeah that more diplomatically he could have given the same answer more diplomatically saying listen no in war there's no winners and no l losers the war needs to end I want to negotiate something that both parties are content with he could have said something slightly more diplomatic not that a lot of America would have been happy with that answer that's still the wrong answer bad answer well it's even your answer is still the wrong answer what what would you say is the right answer the answer is Russia needs to pull out of Ukraine Ukraine's borders need to be restored and it is in the United States as United States and the world's best interest for Ukraine to have to win this war and for the war to end that might be the best answer in in the that specific context but it also May pin us at war against Russia no we don't have to get involved in any war with Russia to say that Ukraine should win this war they were the ones that were invaded no I I I have a little mixed feelings about that because I how could you have mixed feelings about that because I because I think if if we like we're right now we're not fully sided with Ukraine in the sense we're not doing everything we could to get the war over with well everything we could involves us sending our troops over there to fight with them exactly and and that would be supporting Ukraine winning so we're Technic billions of dollars of weapons and stuff so it's clear which side we are on so we don't need to protect like we're not well but we are we are and so that's why I'm saying your answer was a bad answer Trump gave a bad version of of the answer that we're currently he gave a he gave a worse version of your bad answer yeah I I agree but I don't think my answer was that bad I'm trying to tell you why it is I think the other answer saying we want Ukraine to win is going to put us in bad standing with Russia we if we did wouldn't be giving them weapons yeah but we don't want it that bad because we're not just winning the war for them we're not sending our troops over there so the reason why we're not sending our troops over there is because if we get involved then it gets then then it could truly turn into a global conflict exactly yeah but if we didn't want Ukraine to win the war we wouldn't be sending them weapons so we can't deny that the purpose of our actions we can't also simultaneously acknowledge that there are geopolitics nuclear geopolitics at play that tie our hands from being able to do more wasn't there a mention of of nukes at some point in the debate or am I missing am I mixing that up with something else let me find out I think there yeah can you do like a command F or control F yeah the whole transcript um nukes or nuclear something like that uh while you're searching that a question for you and anybody else who's watching and listening did you notice the pin the lapel pin I I gotta I gotta bring up the bar trivia question after this but did you notice and then we can get to the nuclear uh thing did you notice the flag the flag lapel pins they were wearing no so Trump had a I I mean it's very funny because uh I have during Trump's presidency kind of uh assume that most people with big American flags on their front Lawns were Trump supporters it was funny how the American flag almost seemed to scream I'm a trump supporter very strange um but he had a very uh like very clear flag pin on his lapel you could see the blue the white stars you could see the red and the White Stripes her flag pin you could not see any red white or blue it just looked like a limp flag on a kind of golden or brass pin it's very very strange doesn't matter to me at all I just but at some level somebody's thinking about it choosing the pin and here's here's so Trump says in in reference to Putin he says but eventually you know he's got a thing that other people don't have he's got nuclear weapons they don't ever talk about that he's got nuclear weapons nobody ever thinks about that and eventually uh maybe he'll use them maybe he hasn't been that threatening but he does have that something we don't even like to talk about nobody likes to talk about it but just so you understand they sent her to negotiate peace before this war started 3 days later he went in and started the war because everything they said was weak and stupid they said the wrong things that should never have started she was the Emissary they sent her in to negotiate with zalinsky and Putin and she did and the war started three days later now first of all I want to point out that Trump thinks that he's saying something profound here by saying like he's got nuclear weapons and they don't ever talk about that no everybody talks about that like it's something that people think about all the time like literally that is probably the biggest motivation on our military's part for they are not more involved exactly the fact that Trump is like Trump's pointing out like the sky is blue and like nobody ever talks about that yeah like why did we ever think about why the sky is blue like dude everybody knows this but the next statement that he made I thought was a burn for her she was there three days before Uh Russian Ukraine war started there she was there to negotiate and three days later they went to war so she didn't do her job um I would say I don't know much about this and now it's cost millions of dollar well who who I will say first of all that I don't know much about this but even if we assume that everything he is saying is true that she was there three days before Russia invaded Ukraine she didn't deny it well okay but I'm gonna say for the sake of this argument let's assume that's true that does not mean that she failed in negotiation and here's why in order to have a productive negotiation you need to have both parties that are willing to negotiate in good faith if Putin had a set of Demands such that zalinsky needs to resign and other things in Ukraine that's not negotiating in good faith so you can't you can't go into a negotiation where one party is asking for unreasonable things and so when that kind of a negotiation happens you walk away from the negotiating tape yeah but we don't yeah we don't know any details she didn't fill us in anyil that I just want to say that your conclusion that she's a weak negotiator cannot be made but she also didn't argue it she didn't she didn't argue that so um he I think he he it it was not helpful for her campaign it didn't she lost ground on that statement um let me see what her response is here all right um so David the bar trivia question on on Deck here go ahead yeah yeah yeah um she says when I went to meet with President zalinski I met him I met with him for over five over five times the reality is it's been about standing as America always should as a leader upholding International rules and Norms as a leader who shows strength understanding that the alliances we have around the world are depend are dependent on our ability to look out for friends and not favor our enemies because you adore strong men instead of caring about democracy and that is very much what is stake here is at stake here the president United States's commanderin-chief and the American people have a right to rely on a president who understand the significance of America's role and responsibility in terms of ensuring that there is stability and ensuring that we stand up for our principles and not sell them for the benefit of personal flattering all right let me get to the bar trivia question I still don't think she defended herself at that statement I understand what she was saying but I'm telling you she she didn't gain any ground with the rebuttal there um all right bar trivia question from episode 256 Ben and Carl were in 100 meter race when Ben crossed the Finish Line Carl was only at the 90 minute Mark Ben suggested they run another race but this time Ben would start 10 meters behind the starting line all other things being equal will Carl Win Lose or will they tie in the second race James um Ben was the one who won the first race right Ben won by 10 meters in the first so he started 10 meters behind in the second race he will still win the second race okay and at what point will he pass Carl one meter to the Finish Line um so here's your official answer car L again the second race Ben started 10 meters back by the time Carl reaches the 90 meter Mark Ben will have caught up to him therefore the final 10 meters will belong to the faster of the two since Ben is fast and Carl he will win in the final 10 meters on the race all right stay tuned for the end of the episode we will hit you with another bar trivia question this one is about dating two girls at the same time so if you're into that thing uh you might want to stick around to the end of this episode we got 20 minutes or so uh before we give that one to you so um let's see uh So speaking of uh someone who wants to jump into this conversation we have somebody that if they wanted to they could probably last a month eating all their own pets they have they have quite a I can see them in the waiting room also by the way if you want to join uh this episode of sip talk while we are live for the next 20 minutes or so um till about 9:30 eastern time uh check out the link in my Instagram profile and you'll be able to jump into the waiting room you send me a message you let me know what you want to talk about we'll bring you in right now we have Eric and Amanda Hastings in the waiting room we're gonna bring them on they've been in the waiting room for a while by the way I also have um I have a fact check pulled up for B for statements made by both candidates that's like probably about 8,000 words so all right well listen what I was saying is we got Eric and am man have been in the waiting room for a while very patient then however I have noticed they both had a drink in their hand so we're gonna we're gonna bring them in and see how much of that drink they've consumed welcome Eric Amanda not enough I'm the ghost man here I'm not gonna lie I'm like half a bottle in all right I got P tonic little tangay action little sweats so there got they got uh they got some drinks in them uh but I I want to ask you guys uh outright and thank you for joining us uh who do you think won the debate Harris Cala okay so so we're all in agreement there yeah yes we're all in agreement there um any observations you'd like to share um General observations not specific came off pretty well uh he came off as kind of a daughtering old fool he just did I noticed she tried to stare at Trump intently and Trump would just ignore her he didn't you think that was a good move by Trump uh he may have been told to do that honestly it made him it would make her feel irrelevant or less than so but do you think that was a good look for Trump to be ignoring his opponent no not my opinion no probably let me let me ask you about this uh he also never referred to her by name he just said she or her yes but also in the beginning he went straight to the podium she went around to shake his hand and I also believe that was the first time ever that they' met one in person correct correct that's that's that's what I I heard um so uh James I want to ask you first what what did you feel about the Optics of him kind of ignoring her going straight to the podium and she went around her Podium and then behind his Podium and extended her hand I think it was a good move on her part to extend a handshake it's a very simple gesture that that is disarming simple so I like the fact that she did go for the handshake what I didn't like were the Optics of her kind of having to go in and around and chase him uh I thought that made her look a little bit weaker no I think that I I would take the exact opposite of he's trying to avoid her and she's not letting him yes that uh it was a lot of a lot of walking on her part I don't know right but if someone's trying to avoid you you have to walk yeah I I I I think I think that she she did a good job of of forcing the issue and the issue being basic decency of how you treat an opponent like it's just like when I play in pool league before your match you greet and shake your opponent's hand and after the match regardless of the result you shake your opponent's hand yeah no matter how mad you are that you lost you go up to your opponent and you say good match you shake their hand and you walk away well I think his his behavior in the beginning I think was a negative for him I think it was good that she was the one that led the handshake what I'm saying though is the fact that she almost had to chase him down optically I I didn't think it was a good look for her so I think you're drawing the wrong conclusion um which I I just need to get like a sound bite I just need like a soundboard of me saying that mind if I we do need a soundboard we that would be that would be nice maybe that'll be a future have like a little bit of a thing I do want to say is that all right no no yes really go ahead but move closer to the camera because you're your back I'm be honest both these candidates suck okay I think most of America also agrees with that statement I think so too yes unfortunately I'm gonna tell you this Kamala kept kept preaching she's middle class she is so far removed from middle class her father was a professor her mother was a a scientist you think they didn't make six figures seriously that's not middle class I especially back then I I had questioned that she said you know she she kept doubling down on how she grew up kind of middle class leaning to being kind of lower middle class and that her family didn't own a home the last time she ever had middle class what do you think the last time she went to a grocery store or cook for herself or Trump either okay yeah fair enough and but the issue is like her she's not able to do that even if she wanted to um but I don't know necessarily that she was lower middle class growing up she did mention that her parents didn't own a home until she was either 18 or in high school or something like that but um and then she mentioned how Trump got 400 million which he denied uh then they mentioned that he bankrupted so many times and then he mentioned that despite him bankrupting the company or different companies he still grew it into a many many billions of dollars and he did it multiple times all right so real quick research department on this yeah very so her parents met in 1962 and married in 1963 by 1970 they divorced so like and and she lived with her mother since then and so in 1970 hold on Camala Harris was born in come on 196 no she was born in 1964 so her father divorced his her mother in 1970 that means that she was six at the time so I think her growing up with a single mother in 1970 even if her mother had a decent job as a scientist growing up with a single mom in California I think that that you could make a pretty strong argument that that's solidly a middle class living Lost Child Support from the father got to remember that well maybe maybe not we don't know that this is purely speculation but what I'm saying is that for you to say that she lived a high class lifestyle in her childhood I think is a hard my thing is I want I just want to get this through real quick both candidates are so far removed from what Real Americans have problems with they don't know what it's like to have to struggle and go through can I feed my children can I keep a roof over my head or do I have to pay the electric you got pick one out of the three so I don't think you can make that argument I think real America problem guys hear me out I think what the point that Eric is making is that Calo has been in you know in the white house or visits the White House often uh for the last three and a half years yes the middle class and the the lower middle class are really struggling just getting by the cost of housing the cost of the cost to buy a house the cost of rent the cost of groceries and what Eric's saying is that she's so far removed from that and I think you could you could take away her childhood I think now she's very far removed from that but what I don't think that Trump did a very good job and he did touch on it and then she didn't do a very good job defending so they both kind of dropped the ball on this um about how bad the the economy is for many people right now uh I saw an example the other day somebody uh ordered groceries online three years ago or something it cost him $84 he literally ordered the same thing again it cost like $430 yeah so hold on that's that's a really weak comparison and here's why oh wow you need to look at like four years ago if you order groceries online like so a lot of these grocery delivery companies have operated under the same business structure as Uber and lift did which is early on they structure their business in such a way that they're making losses on every sale to gain customers and then once they reach a CR critical Market threshold they start raising their prices and so four years ago they wouldn't have been marking up the groceries Walmart right no no no no I'm not talking about the I'm not talking about where you buy the groceries from I'm talking about the service you buy the groceries through and so you like basically a door dash for groceries right you're gonna be freaking paying out the ass fees what I'm not I'm not arguing that grocery prices aren't higher today than they were four years ago what I'm saying is that if you have an $83 grocery bill four years ago it is not $400 today and that that that's a patent misrepresentation of inflation greed and so well but I don't think it would the $340 difference is all in incentives no but what I'm saying is there like you can look at inflation data and you will never get 400% you will never get 500% that is so far out agre with you huh James regular inflation or core inflation the there's not a single good in in the United States that is four or 500% more expensive now than it was four years ago I I I agree with you I agree with this is four or 500% no this is an extrem examp here's the problem we are getting higher wages in general but still hasn't caught up to the costs of living now it's again stop using bad examples to justify your point well you lose you lose intellectual credibility when you say that something is $400 that was only $80 four years ago that's just not I'm using a hyperbolic example here but I think right and I'm telling you not to do that but the reason why it is trending and why it's viral is because many people don't think it's 100% accurate but they identify with it and like here's an example of what we're feeling be it albe it hyperbolic it's still we're everybody's feeling that and I don't think that either one of them kind of she didn't defend it and he didn't exploit it not the 400% increase but the the state of the middle class economy and her saying that she's from a middle class or lower middle class or she's struggled growing up uh I think what Eric is saying is that she's very far removed from that and she's just using it to try to get to this base of of Voters um all right I've got the data on grocery prices 21 25% up you Eric you said about 25% up about 21 to 25 yes from what I remember you're actually very very close um it's about 25.8 I I just searching at the same number so and your amount of Mone don't give me the [ __ ] that things are four or 500 % more expensive when in reality it's 26 and this gets to the first thingal substantial it pinches I'm not trying to say that prices are the same today as they were four years ago and I'm not trying to say that 26% is an insignificant figure but what I'm going to get to and this is the first thing that I wrote down when I Was preparing for this cast which is that there are various flavors of lies and okay and when when you say something like here's my grocery bill from four years ago and here it is today and it's 400% higher that is a flagrant and dangerous lie when you say when you say here's like I feel like I'm paying twice as much in groceries as I did four years ago that's less egregious of a lie when you say grocery prices are the same today as they were four years ago that's a less egregious lie so the more you like and the and when it comes to other types of Lies like like Trump talking about them eating the dogs that's flagrant and dangerous and so when people talk about how Camala Harris had some had some things that she said that were untrue if you want to call them lies so fine like you can compare you can't just compare the quantity of lies that someone tells you need to compare the magnitude and the implication of those lies and when when you do that when you do that deping some lies are bigger than others it doesn't matter you're ignoring the point that I just made is that lie the type of lie you tell matters and and you can't just say she told five lies and he told 10 lies or he told five lies and she told five lies and say they're the same when his lies were horrifically bad and hers were more more on the side of misstatements so all I'm saying is that that talking point was not exploited nor defended uh the way that I thought it would have been I would have thought that Trump would have come up with the this 400 increase and then she would have been able to defend it with some other metric about how wages are higher or something like that it didn't they weren't allowed to bring any notes and I think if you're GNA go into specifics You're Gonna Want notes a lot that's a bad rule another another thing kind of specific point uh was she I thought earned him pretty good when she talked about him taking a full- page newspaper ad out um regarding the Central Park 5 saying that they should they should see the death penalty I felt that his on that wasn't as strong so I'm just gonna mute you guys for a minute uh his rebuttal on that wasn't wasn't that good um but you know he could have he could have had a stronger talking point on that any thoughts on on that guys James it was just passing in the debate it wasn't something they really focused on so I vaguely so here's Here's my thought and James give me give me your opinion on this is that Cala was also a criminal prosecutor yes and he you know may I guess maybe because they didn't have notes or maybe he just has no idea cuz he's just completely unaware but you know he could have kind of turned around and been like well I'm sure there's some cases that were wrongful that you participated in and doubled down on as well you know I said these guys who all uh said that they were guilty they all plad guilty uh you know should receive the maximum sentence yeah I mean he did say that Bloomberg agreed with him at the time which you know but well I'm gonna read you a different quote and this is on the topic of racism because I think that you can make the argument that his advocacy for the execution of five innocent people in of the Central Park 5 Plays into a greater racism that Trump exhibits and I'm going to give you a a quote from the 1991 book trumped by John odow here's the quote from Trump I've got black accountants at Trump castle and Trump Plaza black guys Counting money I hate it the only kinds of people that I want counting my money are short guys wearing yamakas those are the only kind of people I want counting my money nobody else besides that I've got to tell you something else I think that the guy is lazy and it's probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in Blacks end quote he's colorful else so but what did I say at the beginning of this conversation we all know who Trump is the people who like Trump also know know who he is there's no surprises he doesn't he's not moving the needle on his side the needle needed to be moved on her side and I don't think she did a great job doing that for the people that support her they're like yeah she did a great job for the people that want to support her which I know a lot of because I'm in New York City and I'm seeing a lot of people being like yeah [ __ ] Biden like it may just vote Trump you know what let me give you another quote here let me give you another quote and this has nothing to do with with racism this is a direct quote when um from the end of one of Trump's um po portions of the debate he says if she won the election the day after the election they'll go back to destroying her economy our country and oil will be dead fossil fuel will be dead we'll go back to windmills and we'll go back to solar where they need a whole desert to get some energy to come out you ever see a solar plant by the way I'm a big fan of solar but they take 400 or 500 Acres of desert soil so trying to play both I remember that quote like solar is terrible and she's gonna destroy the C country also I I I like solar and then also I hate solar it's like it's a little contradicting I understand I maybe he likes the concept of solar but he doesn't like the execution he's old world he believes that the money is in the oil no I think this speaks to a greater a greater aspect of trump which is that he has no idea what he is talking about that's probably true sometimes which is he just Ram whatever comes into his head there there's not a bouncer at the door between head and his mouth it's just everyone's in go well some people would say that makes him a little more genuine I I think that you like I don't think that's a good actually not for a president wait I will agree with you I will say the fact that he just says whatever he is thinking does make him more genuine and we can genuinely see that he's a classifiable [ __ ] so you somebody who's better at lying to you so you would prefer somebody who's better at lying to you all politicians lie I think preer somebody who's better at at speaking I I think and more more articulated and better thought out I think that what Harris says in general is more believable and I also she also doesn't say ridiculous [ __ ] well so on that note what she says is more believable uh and I'm missing one of the metrics here but she mentioned a $50,000 small business tax credit she mentioned $25,000 uh towards a home a firsttime home buyer down payment and she mentioned one other thing um child tax credit home um down payment assistance for homes child tax credit was a $6,000 child tax credit let me ask the easiest question out of this where is she gonna get the money she gonna cut 5% off at everything well you're not the money for you're not getting the money you're getting tax wait I can Eric I can answer that you're not giving grants you're whoa whoa whoa whoa hold on there are two specific policy proposals she has to make up for some of that Revenue the first is raise game dck you have to let him respond sorry the first is raising the corporate income tax from 21% to 28% which is still lower than it was um before the tax cuts and jobs Act of 2017 when it was at 37% so she's going to raise the corporate income tax from 21 to 28 and the second is that she will be taxing capital gains on individuals who have a net worth of $100 million or more so the number of people that it will affect is very very small and I would argue that we should be shedding no tears for anybody who has net worth of a 100 million or more well how do you feel about the jobs that'll be lost from these people that are leaving you need to incentivize to get American jobs for these people not to Outsource who are you talking about I'm talking I think what Eric is saying if that corporate tax rate goes up we will lose lose more corporations thus lose more jobs I think that's what Eric is is saying yeah I think that's what end more in benefits than having them I think that is a a major issue on the uh Democratic side is that they are such little person uh that they really use and I see this in New York City where they have all these plans and programs that just use landlords and Property Owners as their savings account or kind of back pocket for change so you know I think at the federal level you know on the Democratic side they just they're using corporations to not that I think that a seven or six or whatever percent tax increase is that bad but some businesses are going to say you know what [ __ ] this well it depends on how they choose to deal with that tax like are they going to pass that on to their consumers yes are they going to take that away from their profit shareholders where is that money coming from business owner any increase in the corporate income tax is a tax on profits only so but how they choose to realize that cost to theirs business yeah the shers are making there's no passing it on to Consumers because course [ __ ] no noily it's because like the only thing that will change is their after tax profit their pre-tax profit will remain the same no matter what okay it's just their after tax profit so your second point of their dividends to their shareholders their sh possibility the stock like it's hot and then you could have a crazy you know no are is right there are implications if people are making less money they're making less money so hold wait wait wait I I'll engage with this which is if if companies reduce their dividends or reduce things like stock buyback programs because their corporate tax rate is slightly higher yeah I don't see that as a bad enough thing to out weigh the benefits of the increased governmental Revenue going towards programs that will help people such as increase in the child tax credit increasing down payment assistance like you have like everything's a cost benefiters aren't getting into it for the benefits to society they're getting what I'm saying is what I'm saying is that we can have a large benefit to society okay at the cost of a small detriment to shareholders that are a small portion of society but the shareholders in question control a lot of other things right so we're going to we're going to move on just because we are almost out of time I'm going to get to the bar trivia question right sorry felt like that wasn't going anywhere guys okay um so bar trivia question Don wand has two girlfriends they live on opposite sides of town to visit Mary Don takes the eastbound train okay to visit Jane Don takes the westbound train now Don likes each girl equally but instead of deciding who to visit he allows fate to decide by boarding the first train that comes along each day Don receives his train uh don reaches his train at a random time now guys bear in mind I'm asking the question you are not to answer it if you know the answer our answer will come next episode I'll save me a little little cropping on the editing of this this episode here if you know if you know it we can you can tell me afterwards uh each day Don reaches a train station at a random time the two trains arrive TW uh every 20 minutes but for some reason Don almost always ends up at Mary's why would Don usually end up at Mary's if each train comes along three times every hour and Don always arrives at different times I'll read it to you one more time for those of you trying to pay attention Don wand has two girlfriends that live in opposite sides of town to visit Mary Don takes the eastbound train to visit Jane Don takes the westbound train Don likes each of them equally so instead of deciding who he's going to visit he lets fate decide by boarding the first train that comes along each day he arrives at a random time the two trains arrive every 20 minutes but for some reason Don almost always ends up at Mary's why would Don usually end up at Mary's if each train comes along three times every hour and Don always arrives at different times I know it all right I mean it's it's a relatively simple answer but there's a lot to the question to to throw you off um I think that will mostly conclude this episode anything else that you guys want to add real quickly about the first maybe last pres presidential debate between Donald Trump and Camala Harris I don't think they're going to do another debate it looks like they're not going to do another one I was seeing some breaking news that indicated that he said he wouldn't debate her again um I don't know I don't think he would win anything from debating her again I don't think he's going to change his strategy for campaigning I don't think he has anything to win if there was a crowd no she's correct that like the the reporting coming out today is that Trump has declined a second debate um and all I can hope from my bias perspective is that she spends the next month and a half calling him a chicken it's entirely possible uh Eric what were you saying you think uh he he doesn't gain the ground oh you said unless there's an audience is that what I heard you say he feeds off that audience just like you said earlier you have an audience he'll be able to drown her out and win yeah um did you guys see the potential vice presidents uh at the end of the debate in the post- debate coverage um no I didn't do that so it uh JD Vance I I mentioned this earlier he looked very Sinister to me had kind of Furrow brow very dark eyes he actually he looked he looked like evil it actually like and then uh and then Waltz looked like the Macy's Thanksgiving uh Santa Claus who had just had his beard shaved off he looked very happy he looked very happy he looked like a Santa Claus that just had wasn't sad about the beard it must have probably felt very nice very say that again James aable yeah uh he he definitely is more so than uh than JD bance I I would definitely say that but he looked happy and you know I looked at some of the political Futures Market which I never I never do um and they are seeing gains for Harris so maybe some of the country is seeing something that I'm not in New York City but we're out of time so don't forget forget to visit sip talk podcast.com pick up some sipt merch uh some pint glasses things like that want to thank rash lab for hanging out in the flanks feeding us your comments real time see you guys next time [ __ ]