Josh Pate returns to talk Penn State, new-look Big Ten landscape and playoff expansion

welcome back into the lions 247 podcast hope everyone is doing well we're working our way toward Memorial Day weekend but a lot of work to do between now and then we've got a couple fresh episodes of the Lin's 247 podcast available for you this week we're going to begin here on a Tuesday with a familiar guest here on the show one that I know was a favorite among many of you Josh Pate hosted the late kick content that you'll find AC Ross the CBS Sports and 247 Sports Network here in recent years always good to get him back on board we're going to break down his thoughts on Penn State's 2024 Squad expectations question marks everything else and they'll talk about the new look big 10 landscape as we've got a big pack 12 influx we got a lot of moving pieces in the Big 10 in terms of coaching staffs and the transfer portals impact so we'll kind of reset where things stand in the conference and we'll finish out with the significance of the college football playoff expansion uh for the entire landscap of this 2024 campaign and particularly as Penn State has been one of those programs perennially it seems on the bubble not quite involved in the college football playoff but right there on the outside looking in how does this impact them with the expansion Josh will break that down we're going to have a ton of recruiting Camp feedback for you with episode two this week I didn't want to Short change it I thought it deserved an entire episode so Tyler karuso is going to come on board Daniel gall's going to come on board Daniel was alongside me over at State College's Elite 11 Regional camp on Sunday after afternoon we also had Andrew Ivans in town our scouting director at 247 Sports we had Anna Adams up from North Carolina she's one of our national recruiting uh reporters Mark Brennan Grace Brennan getting a bunch of video footage and photos for us if you missed our coverage go check that out we caught up with Beckham kitza Penn State's quarterback commit about 10-minute interview available at lines 247.com about where his head is at preparing for his senior season at Miami Central High School getting ready for January enrollment at Penn State and additionally a lot of highlights of Penn State targets and commits over at Lines 247.com Tyler caluso meanwhile was with Brian Don down at the Baltimore under arour next camp on Sunday so he has a completely different perspective a completely different crop of prospects that he saw on action heard from about their Penn State interest so next episode this week which should go live Thursday come back with us we'll have a ton on those recruiting camps but as I said without further Ado let's bring in Josh Pate from late kick Josh really appreciate anytime we get a chance to get you on board here we're we're I know you don't believe in the offseason but I feel feel like we're trending out of it if there was one because we've got all these Prospect camps to cover but you're starting to feel that sense the urgency on different campuses I think that you got to make sure you're buttoned up make sure the roster's ready make sure guys are ready to hit the ground running in early August because it's a Sprint from there to January yeah I think Tyler one of the things I wish I could do when we do these spring campus tours and we go talk to different coaches so we have them on the show but one of the benefits that maybe the audience doesn't get to see is we're like embedded in the program for a day so you pick a day if you're a fan like if you're riding around Harrisburg listening right now and you're thinking about Penn State or Ohio State or Michigan or whatever you're thinking okay well like September through December and January it's football I see them every Saturday good to go and I know they have spring practice but outside of that I I always found as a fan at least it was kind of a mystery what's going on the other few months of the year and you you may slip into thinking oh those guys getting into the office around 10 o'clock watching some film talking to some prospects probably out by 3: or 4 but kind of laidback kind of docel it's it's come and go as you please maybe it was the that way once upon a time but you you would be I think probably a little bit taken aback if you're not familiar with the inner workings of these places when you go in there I'm talking about post spring now when you go in there how intense it is how how amazingly button down and procedural and cerebral these folks are about getting their work done and I know like I say no offseason from a Content perspective but at least I could technically afford to take one they can't afford to take one because you're getting left behind nowadays and of course with the changes in the landscape it puts a lot more on your plate that you used to not have to worry about and um that's it's a it's a privilege to have to worry about that like Penn State does because it means you're competing at the highest level I mean con conversely you could go take two three weeks vacation right now and it wouldn't be a good thing if no one miss you I guess but yeah it's a it is a such a grind behind the scenes that I try and tell that story as much as possible because I don't really think people understand it and pick up on it you were up Penn State facilities last spring we had a good conversation about that last year I'm not sure the last time you were here in Happy Valley but it's a different kind of I would say frame around this program right now last year finished 11-2 I'm sorry a couple years ago they finished 11- two with that roseb Victory you got Drew Aller stepping up as that five-star quarterback he was the starting quarterback all 13 games last year the final result 10 and three I want to get to Aller in just a bit uh but Penn State maybe didn't take that step forward that folks were expecting more losses to Ohio State and Michigan they had some opt outs that kind of affected the way they were able to compete against Old Miss and the Peach Bowl but Josh where are you when you try to wrap your head around Penn State here in May 2024 compared to say maybe what your thought process was this time last year well the first thing we're going to do is we're going to switch the blinds back because that let more sunlight in so um I I remember when you and I talked last year that I don't take back any of the like quiet optimism that I had because I think a lot of it was warranted if you'll remember and a lot of the folks listening or maybe even watching if you'll remember when you and I talked last year I remember how much we qualified every statement it was always now if and if and if well that's every team to a certain degree or another but what we said was contingent on some things happening there were there were some TurnKey things that had to happen and then every Everything could flow Downstream of that well some of those things did happen some of those things didn't happened so it's it ended up feeling quintessential Penn State I was at both the games they lost last year I I'm not claiming bad luck I'm just saying I was at the Ohio State game I was at the Michigan game stood on the sideline for both games and I remember thinking vividly man it it feels kind of like more the same right now in a sense that that Ohio State game you just you you get the field early on they're not moving the ball there's no explosivity here and then especially Ditto in the Michigan game there's no explosivity here so it's kind of like if you've ever tried to dunk let's say you're 61 you you've got reasonable athleticism but you God gave you what he gave you you're used to being able to jump and touch the net but it's very rare for you feel that rim on your fingertips and you keep jumping you keep jumping you know you're close to it but it your limitations are your limitations so that's how Penn States felt I know to me and maybe a lot of other folks in recent times good enough to be in the N9 to1 win range but there's a still a hurdle that you can't clear that's where moving forward I have utter fascination with the Colden Nikki hire because if you talk to folks in the Big 12 man everybody in the Big 12 likes to think that they all have the best hidden and best kept secrets in college football and they're not wrong because there are a ton of really good football coaches out there so when they hired him he wasn't on my radar first off for Penn State he wasn't on my radar and so I said oh really because that's the name of his game like explosivity was was what he was known for which makes sense as to why James Franklin went after him so then you you take that all right let's hit pause on that for a second and then you also have this that happens with coaches and players now where they'll build you up no one Minds hyping up a freshman no one Minds hyping up a coach but there's a thing that I think a lot of the college football public does and that's as soon as you see the first sample size the book is written the book is written on the player the book is written on the coach so we've watched Drew Aller play a season as a starter and in the old school that would mean okay we just got our first sampling of him long way to go well in today's game people look at it and say all right we know who he is we we have defined Drew all as a player well we Define 2023 Drew Aller that's what we did we defined Drew Aller in that offensive system with that team I I would suggest we still have no idea imagine how dumb it would be if we applied that logic to Jaden Daniels and Jaden Daniels even even in his year prior to last year at LSU if we had just defined him as the one version that we saw at LSU he goes on to win the Heisman so that's not to say that happens in State College this year but it's certainly very ignorant to um to know a guy has a skill set which is undeniable and now we're pairing him up with someone maybe a little more conducive to taking full advantage of that skill set and thinking oh well you know we just know who drew Aller is uh I don't subscribe to that but as you know also going to the other side of the ball for a second it would not be a visit from on this podcast without us clinging to tradition and me asking you a question because I do not have as good a read right now on how everyone up there feels about the Allen hire I I I know what I think Personnel wise the coaching hire what's been the general temperature up there I think the general temperature is they want to folks want to see what it looks like in game action because that that I think everyone sees that Tom Allen has a wealth of resources right now defensively from a person standpoint that he's never had in his career at any time whether he's head coach defensive coordinator here at Penn State with the talent they have assembled even with losing some guys to the NFL but people want to see what it looks like because right now there's going to look like less three linebackers on the field more two linebackers in a hybrid kind of safety slot roll so that's something that people are gonna have to get used to and this is lbu so that's a little bit different of a look and I think generally folks want to see how aggressive is he willing to be something that people fell in love with pretty quickly with Manny was some of those really aggressive High hybrid package and and and and he would bring it uh in moments where a lot of defensive coordinators maybe wouldn't have you know the the set to do that and so I think people want to see what Tom Allen looks like will he push the right buttons in those game settings will he be the head coach of this defense uh in a different way than Manny Diaz because Manny Diaz was biggest smile in the building a lot of you know a lot of Charisma around that man the word on Tom Allen is more kind of like your your great uncle or grandfather Vibes the guy who's maybe a little bit quirky in some ways but he's going to lead you down the right path and he's going to love the heck out of you so there are different styles here and and I think people just really love what Manny Diaz did because Brent pry was pretty successful here before he got that job at Virginia Tech but James Franklin said it before they went from having a really good defense to a great defense there under Manny Diaz and because of the jury being very much out on where the offense is going to be in 2024 people kind of want to hang their hat on this being an elite defense yet it's not that simple though just because you've got the players you know that yeah well so there's another thing that can happen there uh let's let's say it's not best case scenario let's say the defense is not Elite it's not going to fall past pretty to really good I think we can all assume that so let's say it's a fairly good to really good defense it's not the worst thing in the world if that happens you one of the best precursors to advancement is necessity and a lot of times offensively they you can watch this at Iowa it's this example on steroids at Iowa where they know I mean we score 10 we score 14 defense will keep us in the game well that can be your best friend or your worst enemy if you don't pair that see at Georgia they play Elite defense but they also had the number five scoring offense in the country last year so so one thing is not predicated by the other they play complimentary I'm not saying they don't but the offense doesn't look and say oh they'll take care of it and sometimes it seems like that can permeate or seep in a little bit so to be truthful with you not that I root against an elite defense up there I'd almost be curious what it feels like if there's an understanding in the building defense is going to be pretty good but they're not single-handedly winning us any game so we're gonna have to go and maybe maybe shoulder a little bit more of the load ourselves offensively what we did hear last year Josh was a lot of defensive dominance on the practice field which wasn't necessarily A surprised it was a first year starting quarterback we heard that Drew Aller wasn't turning the ball over on the practice field last year in preseason camp and that held up during the season but we also know he was pretty conservative with the football what we did hear about the defense matched with what we saw during the season this spring though we've heard about the offense maybe putting up more of a fight physically and literally under Andy codel Nikki like he's getting verbal he's talking to Defenders out there he's trying to L A fire under some of his guys and to me it's about Drew Aller personality standpoint we know about the prospect profile the arm you saw him get knocked down on the canvas twice and the biggest settings of his career to this point against Ohio State against Michigan once on the road once here on home turf he was under 50% completion in all three all three of Penn State's losses but those two were so glaring they had a lot of possessions with chances to move the football tie the game Take the Lead You know within 24 hours of the Michigan game you're out of town and so is Mike yuch and so things change dramatically right so I'm curious now that you've had the up close look at Drew Aller suffering through some of those really adverse moments early on in his starting quarterback career what are you most curious about him as a junior with a new offensive coordinator and someone who I'd imagine a lot of people in the offensive huddle will be looking to with more conviction to be that leader and that kind of lightning rod guy when when things are going crazy on the field yeah I'm actually um I'm glad we just had Michigan do what they do because McCarthy gave a pretty good blueprint mentally of how to handle things I remember being down there when Michigan just got smoked got splattered against Georgia in the orange bow and I remember that freshman class that he just come in and he was he was the figurehead of it he was the quarterback you know team walks off the field game's been decided I could have left there end the third quarter and beaten traffic but I'm a professional so I stuck around but I remember that true freshman class as the team Fades into the tunnel they just kind of they're not looking to draw attention they just kind of lingered off to the side and you know George is celebrating and everything and I remember looking over there at that true freshman class who've been on campus like five minutes and they're the ones who look to have taken it the hardest and they're the ones standing out there about five or six of them just soaking it all in and if we would have freeze or Frozen that moment in time you would have had people saying the same stuff they're saying about Penn State and drala right now there's no way that team who got smoked this badly is ever going to be able to compete against that caliber of program well that was wrong that was wrong we know that now because that group ended up being in the playoffs three of the or two two of the next two years they ended up winning a national championship fill in the blank you know the rest so that was it was physical and they Advanced yes they worked their tails off but from a mental standpoint while everyone else would have suggested you need to start over from scratch you need to go back to The Cutting Room floor and figure out a new way that's not what they did they looked and said we just weren't good enough right now but we trust the guys in the room Penn State should be the exact same way they trust the guys in the room the guys in the room and we're talking about Drew Aller namely have to be what they can be it's it's I tell you what's really hard um you you've heard the age-old adage hey every one of these guys was the best in high school but now they get up here and all the sudden you know the the traffic's moving a lot faster we've all heard that very few people have experienced it okay uh and it's no different than advancing in your workplace uh academically advancing at some some point if you believe the cream Rises and you're part of it cream's just surrounded by other cream so then it's about finding little minuscule edges here and there and the difference in other words between being 93% of the way there versus 98% of the way there that final 5% that is harder seemingly harder than getting to the 93% level was and that's the difference in being a 9 and3 team and being an 11-1 team with one loss in overtime and going to the playoffs that stuff I always laugh because people claim they can see it from 10 miles away you can't see that you cannot see the difference from 10 miles away because the differences are that thin player to player team to team unit to unit the differences are that thin and um so human nature is to think oh we're so far away you're not far away you may be as few as two plays away from adding two more wins how do you spot that you don't it's just there there is something from the neck up that has to be there and he's capable of it I I do not doubt that he's capable of it it's just got to be put into practice and executed you talk about that perception of being close but not quite there um James Franklin I'd say where where's that moniker as much as anybody right now in college football because of their ability to go and produce double digit win seasons and and he's done it a bunch here but 2016 is the closest they have come the sniffing the college football playoff they were right on the bubble there we know they won the Big 10 it was a surprise but Ohio State and Michigan in that same division has not been good for Penn State hav't beaten Michigan since 2020 during the covid season haven't beaten Ohio State since that 2016 Conference Championship run they've had onepoint losses they've had blowout losses but it hasn't happened where are you with James Franklin I know you've sat down for a couple different conversations with him over his career with the nitty Lions he's in year 11 now that's a long time at one campus in this modern college football era it feels like this is a significant pivot potential year for him maybe we said that last year and the year before but with the college football playoff expansion with the junior quarterback and Drew Aller with those two Junior running backs and Nick Singleton and KRON Allen with the Splashy offensive coordinator acquisition it feels like it's all there and it feels like if it doesn't happen now the critics are going to start to amplify here in 2024 going into 2025 yeah so this shirt I'm wearing right now I'll wear this to the gy a lot and it's got the strings on it it's got the hoodie attached to it so a lot of times if you're moving around it it ends up you're getting a little disheveled on your on your shoulders so let's just say I I did a set of jump rope or you know did power cleans or whatnot this is this is probably what it would end up looking like well this doesn't feel good and it doesn't look good and so you don't change the shirt what you do Tyler is you go like this you go and it didn't settle quite right okay so then I would I would kind of mess with it again and all right I can deal with this well I didn't change the shirt my shoulders are no different nothing about my frame Chang it's just you got to kind of keep shifting and keep altering that is absolutely how I feel about James Franklin dude's good enough uh the program's good enough there just has to be every now and then just a little reworking kind of little reshuffling new coordinator here uh you know new new position coach over there and you just got to find the right combination because because they're not far away it would be the worst idea in the world to torch the barn and kill the rats as Mima would say start over from scratch you don't do that when you're at Penn State's level the same stuff you and I just talked about with Drew Aller and teams in general it's the same thing that applies here it's just fractions of degrees change One Direction Another Direction um I yet again I know this is like a broken record at this point but the finality and Absolution with which people talk about coaches and teams in this in this sport baffles me and they always use in in the affirmative they use like cannot James Franklin cannot do this they say it about Ryan day you know I think I've used Georgia three times as an example now but it keeps on being brought in organically I'm from the south I grew up in the state of Georgia actually I I think people would be shocked to know once upon a time people in my home state said that Kirby Smart cannot and what they were saying was he cannot beat Sabin he cannot get over the Alabama hump he cannot win at all he's just they talked about him like folks talk about Franklin okay well they don't say that anymore because he won back-to-back titles well the thing is they were either never right or they were always right because Kirby Smart's Kirby Smart it's not like he changed it's not like he got different DNA injected into him no what they should have been saying was he has not because that would have been correct just like with James Franklin you say he has not made the playoff has not done this done that well that that may be accurate depending on what it is you're putting in the blank but to say he cannot um again I think is very ignorant and shortsighted it's just did he make the right adjustments when when his when his hoodie was sideways and his drawrings were oblong he just he just adjusted himself again okay so the coordinators he brought in did did everything fall into place does it click like the puzzle pieces should click that's it like that's all and that's it and nobody I don't care how hardcore you follow this team can really know that until we see games played hey hired three new coordinators uh brought in a half dozen scholarship transfers brought in about 25 freshman so every Year's a little different a lot riding on this one it feels and and as you said James Franklin has not done it to this point the door is open we'll see if they can take advantage I want to ask you beyond Drew Aller who are you most curious to see on the field for the nitty Lions Abdul Carter going from an all big 10 linebacker to now an edge rusher you've got those Junior running backs KRON Allen's been Mr consistent the last couple years Nick Singleton was kind of missing an action from us of last year and then put on the Jets down the stretch and showed us what he can be as a big play playmaker maybe I didn't name a guy you're thinking about but beyond Drew who do you think could be that X Factor Superstar potential for this team yeah I'm actually looking at the corner position okay because I know they brought guys in and it was a a position that maybe coming out of last year you looked at and you said oof we're gonna have to make moves there well they made Moves there um you you mentioned the running back position I at least personally feel like I know what I get with those guys I know what I get with Abdul Carter even with a position change I feel very good about him it's like watching a professional but he just happens to still be playing college at the corner position I've I've gotten used to counting on the guys that come out of that tunnel the team that comes out of that tunnel to include pretty high level players there and I I get you can correct me if I'm wrong I think they feel like they backfilled pretty effectively very effectively so so if we get to the fall and they've done that I let's just say let's just take for granted for a second that they did that I hope people understand how rare that is to have highlevel Corner play to lose it and then to go backfill and seamlessly be able to still play at the highest level and change the coordinator in the process as well if they did that that shouldn't be able to be done you're not supposed to be able to just just do that I know a lot of folks focus on offensive and defensive lines as being really hard to replace and repair that way the corner POS position is not exactly as easy to do as people make it look and Penn State may make it look this year either so if if we get that it goes a long way in what you and I were just talking about which is maintaining a high level of play defensively if we can still take that for granted then yeah man um We're Off to the Races because then it comes down to the fractions and degrees of changes and and being in the game and giving ourselves a puncher chance every week depending on what offense can do I caught up with Penn State's quarterbacks coach Terry Smith during the final week of Spring ball Josh and and I wanted to kind of gauge where he felt that that cornerback room was they lost their top three guys had about 1500 cumulative snaps last year um and he says he truly genuinely believes coming out of camp that this can be a deeper room than what they had last year he I don't think he felt that way going into Camp they got a guy out Daven Collins who transferred in last year as R retro freshman from Mississippi state did nothing on defense last year but has hit the ground running and really impressed people this spring but then the two transfers they picked up looked like immediate impact guys AJ Harris former five star in the 2022 class was a freshman at Georgia last year burned red shirt entered the portal and then Jaylen Kimber was a starter for the Florida Gator last year he started his career at with the Georgia Bulldogs but they bring in some serious Talent there and we'll figure out if they can fill those spots but I think that's a really good spot for you to look and I think the confidence is pretty high locally for those of us who cover the team that they're going to be in a good situation at cornerback despite those departures uh let's look big picture Josh the Big 10 is a different conference than it was last time we had you on you've got the four newcomers moving in from the west coast and then we've got coaching changes we've got teams trying to make power moves and then you've got the nil arms race which is going to play a role in everything this year and moving forward let's start with the newcomers who do you think is in the best position to have success from that pack 12 group and who do you think is going to find the most difficult initial path as a Big 10 conference member uh pretty easy questions there uh Oregon is the definitive answer as to who's in the best position because Oregon's best equipped on the line of scrimmage Oregon um before before we knew they were going to the big 10 even Oregon had started to recruit differently when Mario was out there really and now when landing's out there um that that didn't let up at all and specifically the way they've recruited defensive front players defensive lineman linebackers they have been so relentless in that it's been very reminiscent of what a a high level SEC program would do they've gone into those Terr iies to take the players they've also reinforced it with portal and in preview magazine season you know as well as I do there's this tendency for people to go grab the magazine off the shelf or download it digitally and everything looks so pristine because everyone's healthy pretty much so you just look at a starting 22 and then we've all been through many novembers before and the starting 22s Beat to Death and there's red Sharpie through the depth chart and you you end up with a two or a three in some CL cases or or a replaced to who's had to cross train playing spots that you know that that great starter rotation is no longer playing because they got hurt well what Lanning and Oregon have done is they've recruited very well but they've also got depth and they've got versatility to where I'm not saying anyone's immune to injury they're a lot more built to sustain what a typical Big 10 season would bring your way then you look down the coast and you look at what USC is and I don't know how how much people in State Corners follow this I know you guys play them this year so maybe a little bit but Lincoln Riley got to the end of last year and defensively they were atrocious have been for a while under him but last year he finally pulled the trigger and finally said we are absolutely starting from scratch everything about the DNA of my program I'm GNA rethink we're not talking about a first or second year head coach here we're talking about a guy who has had multiple Heisman winners been to the playoffs won Conference titles one of the highest winning percentages among active head coaches several years into a career think about how rare that is a guy just openly bearing his soul and saying yeah we got to start over and so they hired Danton Lyn who is theate yeah yeah there you go yes forgot about that you guys know him very well and I remember I was at the Pack 12 championship game I was standing next to a a fairly prominent person in our industry and he takes a phone call hangs up and says hey man they're they're taking UCLA's coordinator wow so I I talk to USC fans fairly regularly via the Paris style over there the 247 USC message board and I think there's a healthy amount of them that all all of them love the higher because defensively they make great staff hires some of them think that yields immediate scalable result and some others and I happen to be in this Camp think you still got to have the football players and I just don't know that they have the football players yet so the reason I looked a little distracted there is because I was pulling up the the helmet grid schedule and you guys play them what uh it's it's like the first month of the season so October 5th but they will have already oh actually I'm looking at that wrong anyway they will play Michigan they'll play Wisconsin they'll play Minnesota Penn State they'll play all those teams this year all right so I think the consensus will be Penn State will be tough Michigan will be tough that's how they'll look at it but they'll think otherwise we should win these games if I'm wrong I'm wrong the the random Minnesota game Wisconsin game those matchups if if you don't have it on the line of scrimmage you could get so embarrassed because that's the kind of game where and not to peel the Band-Aid off but if you remember how helpless it felt as a Penn State fan to watch Michigan do what they did the second half last year for different reasons Big 10 teams could end up doing the same thing against USC it's not because they lack quarterback player explosivity it's quite the opposite they know you can't stop the run why would we do anything else and and I'm not talking about Michigan or Penn State doing that to you I'm talking about a Minnesota or like a a Purdue or a Wisconsin Iowa you just fill in the blank that's what's going to hurt the most if if USC gets on the bus and think they're going to take a seat in the first three or four rows but they actually have to go to row seven yeah and that's their entry point that's what would hurt the most they are they're they're the team I'm most curious about how this transition works out because we know what they can be if it's working out there in Los Angeles we've seen it before um I want to focus on the two teams that have been Main Stays here in the Big 10 they're not going anywhere but things are a little bit different in terms of what Penn State interacts with them Ohio state is still on the schedule this year they will visit Beaver Stadium but for the first time in a very long time Michigan is not on the schedule Penn State's going to see UCLA Washington USC we're gonna have a new field of the schedule but Ohio State remains there so let's start there I want to talk about those two squads the teams that have you know really for the last decade been the the Big 10 championship winners except for when Penn State popped up in 2016 let's begin with Ohio State because they took a very you want to talk about taking a different approach this off season what they did in the transfer portal we saw kinhan J juggins uh really running strong against Penn State in the Peach Bowl and then I think within 10 days he was all of a sudden in the Big 10 as an Ohio State transfer and that was one of the many examples of them going out and grabbing high level Talent what do you make of what Ryan day did this offseason and and really what's at stake for that current regime because if there's anywhere that demands unbeaten seasons and one lost seasons and and and college football champ playoff runs it is in Columbus right now so they're talking a lot nationally about Old Miss and how Allin they feel about the 2024 season when I went to Ohio state that was the message that was delivered internally I spent the whole day there and that was so emphasized we are all in for 2024 now the difference between an Ohio State and Old Miss is at Ohio State you can go all in on a season and be right back there the next season because it's not a a Reload kind of program it's more it's not a rebuild program it's a Reload program but they were abnormally aggressive in the portal now here is I think the slight difference the slight difference is you cannot afford if you want to maintain a high standard you cannot afford to be desperate in the portal what you can do is you can choose to be aggressive in it and I think this is what they did and they went and they said all right we've got a certain filter that a player has to pass through to fit here and some of them will work out and some and some of them won't but the ones that won't work out as opposed to recruiting where sometimes you have to find out once they're on campus if there's a guy in this portal that doesn't fit through that filter he's not coming on this campus and so the one thing um Tyler that I think maybe there's a misconception of nationally is they just went and tossed a lot of nil money out and just grabbed all the best players they could out of the portal they they were more aggressive in nil I'm not saying that's not part of it but having been privy to the mechan of how those recruitments were handled it was we got a spot for you if you want it you want it like with with Judkins it's perfect example Judkins hits them up asks if there's a spot there and they say well yeah trayon Henderson's not leaving though and so basically they throw balls in his court and they I think they may have expected him to be turned off by that and if he was he was well he wasn't and he did not have the best um the best character scouting report at the end of the day at Old Miss suffice it to say so I think they tried to test him with that and he gave him all the right answers and so he's there now but to me it's not the portal guys the biggest deal is all the guys that came back and that's what they talk about first they don't want to highlight the portal guys they want to talk about the guys that came back um so I think that that that's one of the toughest outs probably the toughest out in the Big 10 but the other thing that I'm just very curious about and to shift it back to Penn State for a second the thing that I'm most curious about is there is um another misconception and the misconception is sometimes that let's say you end the season as a nine or a 10- win team and this has been the the story for Penn State for a while so you feel like you got close to the mountain top but you couldn't reach it you got to be careful guarding against the notion that next year will just start near the mountain top like that's our starting point well that's not your starting point zero and zero is your starting point you you don't just automatically fly at the same altitude as you ended last year and I'm not saying that they suffer from that but I'm always curious when the perception is that is it reality so if it's reality for Penn State I got a couple of games this season that I should really make appointment viewing the USC game should be that the Ohio State game should be that like those are the games where outside of if Penn State is Penn State I should look at and say it won't be easy but they should take care of their business the rest of the way which means in the new era come what may they're probably a playoff team which is just a total different like way of programming your mind to think now I I know you're a little tight on time so I'm going to throw you kind of a three-part question here you can do with it what you will what do we make of this version of the Michigan Wolverines after everything that's happened since they won the National Championship how many college football playoff uh me how many college football playoff participants do you envision if you had a projected here in late May coming out of the Big 10 and do you think here in late May that Penn State will be among them yes I think they'll be among them I think they'll be one of three teams that make it from the Big 10 I think the Big 10 and SEC both have three uh minimum it probably if I made the over under for those conferences combined it would be six and a half I like that yeah and uh I may bet the over honestly so there there's a yes to Penn State I think they'll be there I look hey home playoff game by the way just a possibility let's is that a white out by the way what's the protocol for this it's got to be man it's I mean home playoff game I don't know who's coming up but it's got to be a white out all right so we took care of both of those as for Michigan uh I'm going to use the word misconception since it's the the word of the day we've used it like 37 times here and it's been me all 37 I I think there's a misconception that they lost everything they did lose a lot entire coaching staff's overhauled the the quarterback that you knew from that team is gone they got a lot of top-end talent still there so we do this little very bastardized scientific exercise on my show where we we use the word science because as you know Tyler it's illegal to question science so if you just call something scientific you can't question it so I call it scientific on the show instead of just my opinion and we take the M drafts because the NFL draft has has told us for seven consecutive years the school with the most draft picks taken was the national championship winner so the team that wins the title in college football has the most draft picks seven years running Michigan and Ohio State or Michigan and Washington were that one two last year which is wild when you think about Washington being one of those two well Michigan's right up there again when you look at the mock drafts for this upcoming season but here's the catch that's the catch symbol there you can only find first round mock drafts right now and they've got some first round talent but so does Colorado you know Colorado has got a couple of first rounders there's nothing after that I'm not saying Michigan's quite as as U depth starved as Colorado but I I don't think from a depth perspective they probably matched last year's team I think they'll be a tough out though because even though those players left there's a mentality like there is a culture there that will be a whole lot harder to shake loose than just Los some players to the draft so I know you guys miss them in the regular season um you look at the sports books right now Ohio State you can grab them minus 10 against Michigan at the end of the year because you can bet the future is that far away will it really be that simple that's just it it it should be Ohio State's game it should be their time in the Rivalry will it be that simple inquiring minds want to know great stuff Josh always appreciate your perspective here on our show and and if folks want to make you appointment doing and I highly suggest it you'll be a better informed college football fan you'll be a better overall college football fan when you get to kickoff in late August if you start now Josh where can they make sure they find your late kick coverage on a daily weekly basis I appreciate you having me on always fun to come on um if you love the video product you can go over to the late kick YouTube channel and we do three shows a week and there's a ton of stuff over there we take no breaks I don't even believe in vacation and so if you prefer the podcast version we transferred into podcast form as well and the added benefit there is you don't even have to look at me you can just listen and so that's late kick with Josh Pate wherever you get your pods so it's basically Tyler it's made for you to consume wherever and however you want to consume it it's great stuff we appreciate it keep it rolling we'll talk to you soon uh hope you have a great summer ahead and we'll get you back on to talk pen State football come fall absolutely appreciate it man great stuff as always from Josh Pate the one and only Talent here at lines 20 at 247 Sports Network and across the CB Sports Network as well one of our true rising stars in this industry and we've been fortunate to get up close look at that uh for the last several years through our conversations and him coming on the podcast hopefully he's back in Happy Valley this season because that means there is a huge game brewing in Beaver Stadium we're going to step aside for now here in the Lions 247 podcast as promised earlier in this episode we have a ton and I mean a ton of recruiting Intel coming your way on Thursday with our second episode of this week we will break down what we saw what we heard during BigTime Regional camps down in Baltimore and here in State College during the past weekend a lot of Penn State commit feedback and really a lot of different fresh perspective on what's Happening for targets across this 2025 cycle with the visual visits coming up just in a matter of days in fact Penn State had a top 50 recruit on campus this past weekend for an official visit so recruiting is reaching a high alert level you need to be paying attention to it we've got 30% off coverage at lines 247.com right now dive inside we've got a lot of VIP content going on and we'll have the conversation on our next edition of the Lions 24/7 podcast for now a big thanks again to Josh Pate I am Tyler Don you stepping aside this has been the Lions 247 podcast