Lattes and Leaders w/ Dr. Brad Johnson

[Music] good morning and welcome to lattes and Leaders with Dr Brad Johnson best-selling author and accomplished public speaker specializing in education and educational leadership I am your co-host Jeremy Johnson organizational psychology consultant specializing in career coaching training and development meet us here each week to discuss topics in Education and Leadership and meet with some of the top education talent and thought Partners from across the globe so grab your latte sit back and enjoy a relaxed conversation that will leave you informed and encouraged this morning we have a very special guest with us we have Miss Tanya T how are you doing this morning I am doing great so happy to be here yeah I'm so happy you're here I know we chat some online and follow each other so I am just super excited to hear about how life is in the in the great North right well it's it's hot right now I can't say uh Jeremy and I were talking earlier offline saying my version of hot may be different than many of your leaders but it's hot for Canada that's for sure so we're in a heat warning right now oh wow okay so what is that temperature well for us it's 32 degrees celsus which is Hot For Us yeah was going to say I'm terrible with conversion so I can tell you I mean in conversion to my friend in Arizona she says it's not hot here so that's pretty good yeah so why don't we get started this morning can you tell us about your journey through education so far and how you've got to be where you are today and maybe a little bit about what you're working on currently sure no thank you for that so um like you know most of us I started as a as a teacher so I've uh was secondary trained which means I spent most of my career with high school students so I was an English French and religion teacher I also ran our student council and our leadership program and then I went and did my masters in educational psychology spent a year as a school counselor realized I did not enjoy that role um and then swiftly moved into uh School leadership as a vice principal and then from there had my first principal ship and then thought well this was fun and this is good but now I'll move to China and become an a head of school for an international school it was an Alberta school so it still had Alberta curriculum the same curriculum that I was familiar with from home um spent three years in China and then came back to Alberta uh in that time I guess I should say I did covid in China then returned to Canada and did some more covid here in Canada uh returned to a principal ship here and now currently I'm an executive staff officer with the Alberta Teachers Association and that's um our Union here in Alberta and I work in Regulatory Affairs so very important work in uh I represent the teachers that have complaints filed against them with the government so a few years ago the government took over the um discipline process for teachers and teacher leaders in our Province and so now we represent them because really unfortunately most of the complaints are vexatious and malicious and you know untrue you know sure there's you know bad eggs in all professions but uh majority of the complaints are very unfair and cruel and so it's my job to help teachers and specifically teacher Leaders with those issues with the government oh I love that yeah yeah they they need to have that support for sure especially with the political climate anymore you never know what someone's going to just toss out there so well political and social climate right like you know I we follow each other on X we know exactly what x is like and how people comment and keyboard Warriors and those types of things and now it's the same thing with teachers like I I don't like a report card comment so I will file a complaint to the government instead of having a conversation with you right yeah yeah I mean it's it's uh yeah almost extreme that's got to be a tough situation how was how was the transition to China and back I know it was an international school but just culture-wise how how was that I know that everybody will be interested to to have your experience shared well you know China is its its own place right it's it's very unique culturally I would say the biggest difference for me returning from China is I would say I was very fortunate in my school communities and my in working with the parents that I had um that I never really ran up against those issues where you you didn't feel valued or your teachers didn't feel valued in their communities but we know that that exists uh but certainly in China there was there was no push back from parents like if a child wasn't trouble for something the parents believed you the parents believed the teacher so then coming back to Canada and you know facing that difference again of well my child would never and my child's perfect and you're wrong and the teachers wrong and the school's wrong and um so that I mean that's a big change of course another Nuance or difference especially I mean everyone hates talking about Co but the reality was I was in China in covid and came back in Co was my school felt very safe because I had already done the covid things and reopened a campus but the difference between China and Canada was that in China everyone because it's China follows the rules and so when I came back here and I said you know don't worry everyone we just need to follow the rules for a month or two and everything will get back to normal but then I realized that not everyone was going to follow the rules and you know Co would persist on and on and schools would be closed schools would be open school would closed school would be open so I mean those are some of you know the the big key differences but at the end of the day wherever you are in the world students are students kids are kids teachers are teachers so it really doesn't matter where you are in the world like I had the same discipline issues the same laughter the same struggles that I did in China as I did in Alberta Canada oh that's interesting yeah yeah I think that's you know one of the feedback I think I get from people is you know in different countries is we all face the same problems you know as teachers and administrators and it's sad but that's like the common Bond but but that is one of the common Bonds in education I think is that we all um kind of share those so but that's interesting yeah that had to be neat travel because I love traveling so and I know you do too that that's just experienc in the different cultures even apart from the education is so neat and you just learn so much when you're able to go and actually immerse yourself in a different culture for a while and I think you just learn and grow so much from that too so that's that's awesome and thank you for sharing that and I did learn that dress codes do not um or having school uniforms do not solve dress code issues because obviously an international school they had a school uniform I think I probably spent more time enforcing school uniforms than I ever did as a principal sort of enforcing personal dress at the school so um anyone that believes that school uniforms would solve their problems you are wrong well you made the good point that the the children are children no matter where they're at and they're going to be children and they're going to want to express themselves and push the boundaries push limit yesid absolutely love it so I'm interested to hear about how your psychology and counseling background how that has informed some of your leadership well I've I've said it many times before and I'll I'll say it to the two of you that I really do not believe that I would have been as effective as a school leader without my masters in Psychology and I say that because not only was it deep learning but it it really taught me how to approach approach people as human beings and how to engage in difficult conversations how to pause how to reflect how to realize that there's more to a story or more to to a reaction and a very simple example and I actually saw this teacher just this past weekend at a wedding and I talked to her about one of one of her first evaluations as a new teacher and my assistant principal did the evaluation she had shadowed me having these you know coaching conversations debriefing conversations but this was the first one on her own and the teacher ended up being really triggered got really upset was balling her eyes out was quitting the profession and so I had to intervene and it was about a math a math lesson a lesson that had gone very well but had gone on too long so all the assistant principal had said was you know would you have done anything differently it seemed as though the students became slightly disengaged that they understood the concept but that you you didn't move on and just boom tears so upset never wanted to be a teacher again and instead of responding to that reaction and saying you know like calm down and you need to listen to what she's saying and you know you need to accept feedback it was like oh no no this has nothing to do with the math lesson or the feedback you just received do you want to share with me what it is your so because it wasn't about the math lesson or the teacher that or like the comment that the assistant principal made it was about something so much more and again this was an international teacher and it had to do with things going on at home and an illness in the family and all kinds of things but it was never about the math lesson and I think that's something as school leaders sometimes it's not about the math lesson it's not about why they were late for supervision it's not about how you change their schedule it's not about that one kid that's driving them you know bananas in their classroom it's about something else because we're all human beings and we just act as teachers and act as school leaders and act as other things I love that I love that yeah oh that's so true I love that we act that's so good yeah like personality Persona the the face that we put on that's that's really good yeah I definitely can see that the psychology would help you know I think so often if there's an area that leaderships leaders tend to be weaker in it is EQ it's the relationships it's the empathy and we're scared we're scared of those things we're scared of the tears we're scared of the anger and so we respond in the wrong way as school leaders we think that's a bad teacher or I can't have a relationship with them or I don't want to talk to them because they're going to burst into tears when that's the one you need to to develop to develop the relationship with deeper yeah that's so good yeah I I even think that with parents you know I like to share with leaders that you know when the parent comes in irate and mad about something that happened with the student in class it's almost never about what happened with the student in class it's that they're frustrated that they can't you know handle the child at home or so you know it's always you know the surface level is very rarely what's at the depth and true so so like you said listening is probably the the most valuable tool that we have yeah and when it comes to those parents and one thing I always instructed my staff was to think of their the parents as gift If the parents are speaking to you whether they're angry I mean whether they're furious with you and you know coming up with these wild accusations at least they're talking to you because if they're not talking to you they're talking to their hairdresser and the postman and their fish and their dog and their mom and their sister and their brother and the neighbor Five Doors Down all about you they're going to talk to everyone but you so it may be gift that you can't return but it's still a gift oh I love that mindset we talked a little bit about um you know the importance of you know the relationships with the parents but taking that one step further um can you speak on the importance of building relationships within the the local community yeah I think you you have to know your community I was very um I mean I'll be honest I was very sacred that I never lived in the community where I taught or LED um so I was always a commuter my whole career and that was purposeful because I mean I I really love to work very committed to my work um and I think if I didn't have that separation I might as well not even have a house and I'd just live at school but it was intentional so that I could have some separation between my personal life and my professional life but it doesn't mean that you can't build community and so you find every way in you attend community events you ask Community to be part of your school and I'll give everyone the greatest tidbit I can give you is that people were always amazed how much I could get the grocery store or a local restaurant to give to my school and the number one line that you need to write on that you know letter requesting the donation is you just give them a date and time in which you'll be there to pick up the items and you don't say please respond to this letter and let me know if it's possible I always wrote thank you so much for your consideration I will come by the store on such and such a date and such and such a time if that date and time do not work for you please reach me at this phone number but otherwise I'll see you then and 100% of the time I would show up and get my free box of popsicles my you know free pizzas my whatever so that's the number one gift I can give to everyone today just tell them when you're going to be there for the donation don't let them off love it wow oh I love that I love that that's being assertive which I think we need our teachers to be a little bit more of yeah I love that just that expectation and like why you're doing this why I'm planning this appreciation dinner why we're doing this event explain your why and they want to give people want to give and you know there's there's tax receipts and incentives for them and promotion but don't let them off the hook just say I be there to pick it up thank you so much and then follow through on all the promises you made about advertising in the newsletter sending photos to the news the local newspaper what have you but yeah just tell them when you'll be there but and and you're so right like it's most businesses yeah want to do they want to help they want to be a part of it because it's building Community for them too so than for sharing that kids work there so it it benefits everyone right I love that I I love that assertiveness though that approach I'll I'll definitely remember that and share that too in the future so what are some of the qualities or characteristics you see as making the biggest impact on educational leadership so uh I'll again in the the spirit of honesty and being vulnerable when I started in school leadership I did not see myself I was a very very young School leader um I was not 30 yet when I entered School leadership and like I said there was no one like me I was surrounded by much older men um and I I didn't belong and I I often was made to feel that I didn't deserve that seat at the table so my advice to people is to just be unashamed to be yourself because when you're yourself and you go into leadership with you know a pure Pure Heart the right intentions for school leadership for wanting to serve your teachers and serve your students you can be who you are with your weird sense of humor Your Love of Lego I'm a very proud dog mother that's like one of the only photos up in my office of this gorgeous photo of my dog but you have to be yourself you can't try to be Dr Brad you can't try to be any other leader from any other book you read you can't try to emulate you know your favorite school principal you just have to be yourself with all your strengths and especially all of your weaknesses and as a baby principal I became an assistant principal in the school where I was a first year teacher and where 80% of the staff were very supportive of me 20% remembered that they taught me how to work the photocopier that they redirected me when I was lost on the campus and now suddenly I was going to supervise them and they were not okay with that so suddenly I had to have difficult conversations with this 20% that did not have a desire to respect me and I grew up in a conflict free house and by conflict free house I mean we swept everything under the rug and we did not discuss conflict so I had to learn how to have Fierce conversations how to have difficult conversations and now you like anyone that meets me would be like I don't think you'd ever have a problem with that but that's because I recognized how scared I was and the knots I would get in my tummy if I had to tell a teacher bad news or had to be the one mediating a difficult conversation between a parent and a teacher so I recognized that I could either feel awful and scared and anxious every time these things happen which was going to be the rest of my career or I could do something about it and I think that's the mistake that so many leaders make is they go I'm so busy and I'm good at these things so it's okay if I don't worry about this it's okay if I don't improve in this area and I I believe it's not okay I believe that we have to recognize honor and respect ourselves enough to want to improve all of the time yeah and I I think conflict is one of them one of the books Jeremy wrote with me because Jeremy's background is organizational psychology and that's why he loves your your background with that too but one of the things we talk about is that teachers are high high agreeableness the profession itself is and so that means that most teachers are caring kind empathetic nurturing and so but they don't like conflict and so we see it as a bad thing instead of seeing it as an opportunity and I think when a lot of people move into leadership roles it's kind of the same way and you know like you said you can either dread it every time forever or you can say hey I need to figure out how to develop the skills to handle conflict and then you know it makes a big difference when you said that 20% that reminded me one of the things that I think is true universally not just in education but I call it like the 50 2525 Rule and it's when you move into a leadership role half the people are going to follow you just because you're in the role 25% others will follow you because you're competent and and they can see that you want to be a good leader but that other percent that 20 to 25% they don't like you they don't want you there for a lot of reasons you know whether they thought they should be in that role or like you said hey I trained her how is she leading me now and that's the ones that you really you know have to focus on you know either helping them get on board or I like to tell administrators you know sometimes it might be to help them move on somewhere where they will you know feel better and not be so negative and you know that's that's tough conversation funny little saying and I mean right or wrong take it with a grain of salt but it's something I believe to be true is that I always said whether it's students or whether it's your staff or the team that you're leading that you love them into submission and I mean what I mean by that is not that they that they submit to you or suddenly they're so obedient but that you love them so much that you respect them so much that they feel valued and appreciated and seen and heard that they can't help themselves but work hard and be part of the team and even if their nature is saying I liked my old principal better I'm retiring in a few years I don't need to get on board with any new initiatives that just despite who we are as human beings that they will get on board because you've given them no other choice because you've shown them so much grace so much respect and it's like well I can't fight this it's like you know like I guess like the care care bear cartoons like he just overwhelmed them with caring that they just can't fight it so love them into submission submission I love that love them into submission so going back to the the tough conversations once you kind of identified you know some of the fear that you had there what steps did you take to to overcome that well I went home and I went on Amazon and I was like difficult conversations select all buy all the books because like I said I didn't have someone that looked like me I didn't have a mentor in that way I would like to say that I was absurdly naive of I think I can be a school leader I think I'll be great at it there I go trudging along you know with all my confidence um and that's that's where I started and uh not to I mean I give great praise to this and I did become a a fierce facilitator but uh Fierce conversations or difficult conversations was something that was transformative in my leadership and it actually I used to make it required reading for my assistant principal so that we had shared language and a shared approach and how we would deal with conflict and have those conversations as a team so if anyone's looking for a resource that is one of them but you know have the conversations with your trusted mentors with trusted colleagues with a critical friend with whomever because difficult conversations or conflict conversations they're not scary once you realize the good that comes out of them the bad stuff is only when you avoid them when you don't go in with wanting to hear the other side realizing there's more than one truth I I mean it sounds awful but I mean I love difficult conversations now I'd rather clear the air i' rather hear someone's you know pain hurt misunderstanding and we know that as human beings we don't wake up in the morning and go I hope I annoy everyone I meet today I hope everyone misunderstands me I hope I cause people a great deal of anxiety no one does that and so we navigate the world like people don't want to tell the truth that people don't want to be in relationship with with one another we think oh it'll be too hard for them it'll be too hard for me no it's hard carrying around carrying that stuff around in your backpack yeah that's so true and I I like what you said that you let them read that so yall have a Common Language I think that's one of the keys to conflict because we hate it we see it as a four-letter word we wait till we're at emotional tilt to engage with people which is the worst time and so I think it's so important to you know I'm like you know we have rules regulations procedures for everything except handling conflict and so when you do that I I love that you said that nobody's ever shared that before but I'm in total agreement with that if you have the common language how we're going to approach it how we're going to deal with it that way everybody's on the same page so when you come to engage someone they know what to expect and that you know diffuses a lot of it before you even get started so I love that and thank you for sharing that and tell your teachers who you are I mean that was opening staff meeting for me that we we would do a round table of what does it mean to work well with me and I would share you know I'm very I'm a very untimely person and I was raised that way if it takes a half an hour to get somewhere my mother would make us leave two hours early in case there's a train and you would say but mom there's not even train tracks where we're going and she's like well you never know so we were early for everything so one I'm very on time so when people are late that's hard for me I don't like surprises I don't like surprises in my personal life I certainly don't like them in my professional life so I tell my staff if you think something's gone sideways if you think I'm going to hear from a parent if you think that student's going to come to my office you'd better be there first because I want to hear it from you and then the third one was we don't gossip on this staff and we deal with our problems head on and not everything's a problem but if you go home from school thinking about something that happened and you tell your partner your dog your fish your cat your neighbor whoever about this problem and you wake up in the morning and you're thinking about it and then at lunchtime you're in the staff room and you're sharing it with a colleague and you still go home that next day thinking about it well you better be bringing it to that person or you better be bringing it to me because that's not what we do we don't have parking lot conversations we don't whisper in the staff room we handle our concerns because we're professional adults and we offer each other that Grace so being transparent setting those ground rules and being authentic I believe eliminated like so many of the problems that other people struggle with in their schools and with their staff because people want to do well people want to be happy at work they don't want stress knots in their tummy on Sunday night and you don't want your staff rushing out of that parking lot as fast as possible on Friday I love that and I really loved what you said not everything is a problem you know my thing is like you said if you take it home and you sleep on it and it's still there the next day you probably need to deal with it but sometimes we go home and we sleep on it and we wake up and realize hey that wasn't that big a deal or maybe I misunderstood and because it gives us that time to separate from it emotionally so that you just needed a snack yeah oh I love it that's going to be my excuse from now on I needed a snack I love that so can you tell us about some of the challenges you've faced as a woman in leadership yeah um my favorite line is that I didn't know that it was bad to be a girl until I went into school leadership and I say that because I have an older brother and all my closest and nearest and dearest cousins are males and so I was always treated as you know an equal and I was invited and I was included and I mean my very close cousin John you know his nickname for me was maintenance as in high maintenance um but I was you know always included and it just took me an extra long time to get ready and if we were going somewhere that high heels were not appropriate they would be like please wear normal shoes but I was never disregarded for being a female with the boys however when I went into school leadership and I've told this story many times I have no problem telling it publicly but when I was offered my first position as a vice principal I was told by the superintendent there's nothing I can do your interview was perfect but do not come crying to me in November when you can't handle this job and then at our opening admin meeting of course like I said I admit that I was young like observed absurdly naive and full of confidence but I went and got a new outfit like a new professional I'm in leadership now outfit and I showed up at the meeting and I literally was padded on the head and told what a cute outfit I had oh wow so it was moving past all of those things and accepting that I didn't like everyone else accepting that I wasn't the same age as everyone else and until I went to China I was always the baby China was the first time that I was the old wise owl because as a young leader many of like I always had teachers that were close to retirement I always had teachers that had 25 years in and I had just hatched out of an egg and suddenly I was gonna you know be the boss of them um and you just have to trust in your knowledge trust in your heart for leadership and everything else will follow male female whomever just be the best version of you and so yes there were hard Parts about being a female in leadership there you know I did deal with sexism and harassment and my school went through a renovation and every time the construction workers or the the foremen would come to the front office he'd say can I speak to the principal and my secretary would get me and then he'd say no not you the other one because my assistant principal was male you know so but it's fine it's fine if you let those things stop you or become the barricades there's a lot of harder things to overcome in leadership than people looking at you and thinking you know you're the secretary or you're the school counselor or you're too young you're too this you're too that so accept it move on no I love that and I love the story with your cousins and stuff because I had a flashback as you were saying that I had a cousin her name was Jamie when we got together like on Sunday we would have dinner at my grandparents and we would all play football and and the girls played with us I mean and we just you know we treated them like they were you know we didn't treat any any any cousins different whether they were boy or girl and she always and she unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago from cancer but she always said you know because she was one of the top Executives at wacovia bank and just hugely successful and she said you know growing up with y'all and y'all just treating me that way and just pushing me and every you know she's like just you know we would fight to be the first one in the line to eat and she's like I took that tenacity and that sounds like you you know I were naive but I just I knew I could do it and that just you know just flashed back to that memory for me but she was like you know I knew I could do anything if I could beat y'all to the front of the line to to eat and I was just like you know I just thought that was so cool to have that mindset and what a blessing and I I I feel fortunate that I would say even my father raised me that way that there's no reason why I couldn't shouldn't wouldn't do something and like I said I I feel very fortunate that I just went ahead and then went oh wait you don't want me here I don't what okay well I'll just persevere anyway and you'll learn to accept it I love it and now I look around I see so many young female leaders and my heart just skips a beat and I'm so joyful every time that I see it and I'm like oh my goodness you're so like you you're so young and I I'm just so proud because you didn't exist when I started and so I hope that I played a itty bitty tiny minute piece in helping other female leaders and other teachers step forward into leadership roles because you know maybe I I got a little bit of the hard stuff out of the way for others right oh yeah oh that's so good yeah I and I'm sure you did I'm sure you impacted more than you are even aware of well I hope so I think that's all we ever should hope to do as Leaders is that we open doors and let people realize their own greatness so looking back over your education can you think of a teacher or to that um really impacted you in your own development the first one that comes to mind I think is what we you know kind of were speaking about earlier and it's funny because even when I gave him a reference letter years later you know his principal the his new principal you know said is there anything I need to know about him and I said yes I just hope that you're brave enough to receive feedback because he will give you all of feedback if he does not like a decision you have made you will hear about it and you will have to justify your decision to him and he was one of my teachers in my in my very first principal ship that was very honest would come to my office no problem you know even if if I said I need a minute he's like well I don't have a minute I like I have now and I'm like okay and not disrespectful but I mean really teachers have now like he had to go teach or he had to go do supervision like he had now to discuss this he had two young kids at home and he really taught me what it meant to have those open honest transparent well I don't really know why I made this decision it it felt like the right one but maybe it's not maybe we should talk about it maybe we should Circle back to the rest of the staff and so he was a teacher that I think a lot of other school leaders would be afraid of or would punish and by punish I mean not giving him the classes that he requests making sure he always has outdoor bus supervision um you know putting giving him the most difficult group of student like just those little things that some school leaders choose to do to be punitive or cruel the bad leaders but I saw it as again like many things as as a gift because if he wasn't coming to me he was going to have those same conversations of why did Tanya make this decision why did Tanya do this behind my back and so yes he was challenging yes he was frustrating and yes do we have sorry my dog's ringing her Bell to go outside um uh did he teach me the dimsum sorry my dog's name is dimsum who live in China and did he teach me the most about being a school leader yes sit down he's okay sometimes I I'm actually I'm not a cat person but I have straight cats that have showed up and um I'll hear them meowing in the Next Room cuz they're yeah they're wanting something so that's fine and I thought about taking the Bell off the door but I was like no she's fine and I mean I know that we've got probably gone over time I know you said normally these are like 20 minute chats and we're at 40 minutes so she's probably like Mom it's time no you shared so much I just yeah I could listen to you all day I love that point you said about like the teacher giving you feedback I think that's something that a lot of leaders struggle with but I think it's something that's so important one of the things in the next book I want to share is about in the business World they the good corporations do something called 360 feedback and so it's not yeah it's not just you know like if you're a principal the district is the one that gives you feedback well they probably know least about what you're doing and how you're doing it than anyone and so that 360 is you know your staff giving you feedback on how you're doing and you know I think some some leaders struggle with that but the reality is like you said man that's a wealth of information that you can use and you know the teachers and their heart when they're giving it to you whether they're just mad and lashing out or whether it's you know sincere feedback I'm like as a leader you can I think can determine that but I think that's such a critical piece that some leaders miss out on because you know maybe they are afraid to hear what their teachers think or whatever but I'm like if you're afraid to do that you need to ask yourself why are you afraid to hear their feedback because that might be more telling anyway so I love that and I think that's a great point and thank you for saying that because it it is true and it goes back to like honor your weaknesses recognize your weaknesses and you should want the feedback you should want to grow you should want to be the type of leader that is serving your community and if you're missing the mark don't you want to hit it and if you don't want to hit it yikes yeah no I love that that's so good yeah do you have any any more just Pearls of Wisdom for the listeners again it always like my my heart for school leaders is know yourself and know your staff and by know your staff I mean be in their classrooms I I am a huge proponent of if you supervise don't socialize you can love your teachers without being their best friends you can love your teachers without being friends with them on Facebook um you can love your teachers without going for drinks with them on Friday night I openly said once to a staff member she's like you haven't accepted my my Facebook friend request and I said well that's because we're not friends when we don't work together then I'll add you on Facebook but until then I mean she still laughs about it but it's true you can love them professionally and know about their families know about their trials and tribulations without having like they need separation from you that's the most loving thing you can do is to be their principle that they trust and see as vulnerable see as imperfect see as funny see as fun play with them engage with them but you don't have they shouldn't be your Social Circle and another belief is that with my staff and students and I'm again right or wrong listeners I always said none of you will know which one of you I don't like and I mean say it jokingly or factiously instead like trust you trust me my husband knows the names of some of you but you'll never know because I'm going to treat all of you with the same difference the same respect the same quality that you'll never know if you actually annoyed me me um I love it I love it that is so powerful you'll never know which one of you is my favorite trust me some of you are not all of you but you all you'll all think you're my favorite you'll all think you are absolutely I love that all right so we know the dogs got to go so one more question this is called lattes and leaders so what is your hot beverage of choice coffee latte cappuccino well because as I mentioned it is hot here in Alberta Canada today I do have an ice latte I you know support it lates with leaders so I have my iced latte all right awesome good answer are you a Tim Horton fan you know uh as a Canadian I have to be but unfortunately I am a pumpkin spice latte girl as well so Starbucks does have my heart as well my favorite drink is the chai latte I don't know if you've ever tried one of them with the spices and it's similar to the pumpkin spy so but and I love it too so yeah we're we're right there in agreement on that so that's a good way to end and Starbucks sustained my life in China so I uh thank goodness there was Starbucks in China that's awesome well thank you so much for taking the time to be on I loved your story and I love it even more now that I've heard it fully and just your perspective on leadership is just the right perspective and and hopefully people listening will understand the importance like you said of understanding yourself and then understanding those you lead so you can help them be their best I just think that's um awesome perspective and and that's why it was such an honor to be here Dr Brad because every time I would see something you would post on X it spoke to my leadership heart and it was like he gets it he knows this is what people should be following this is what people should be reading and sometimes I would read the quote or read the post and not even realize it was you and I'd be like yes yes and then see that it was you so to be invited as a guest on your show is just you know not to be ridiculous like a dream come true because it's speaking to someone who speaks you know the same leadership love language that I do well and I'm just thrilled to be able to share your story too so I think that'll benefit a lot of leaders and and hopefully you know they'll they'll be able to grow from it so again thank you so much thank [Music] you this has been lattes and Leaders with Dr Brad Johnson we hope that you leave today feeling informed and inspired for more educational content be sure to add this podcast to your list and follow Dr Johnson on any and all social media platforms for more information on Dr Johnson Jeremy Johnson and special guest check out Dr Brad johnson.com that is d o c t o r Brad johnson.com hope to have you back soon [Music]