The Stalking of Sandra Bullock

[Music] welcome to the crime redefined podcast produced by zeroc Cliff media coming to you from the US Bank Tower high above downtown Los Angeles in our podcast we drill deep into forensics and criminal investigation from the Viewpoint of the defense as well as explore the intersection of the media and the justice system I'm Dion Mitchell here with May area on today's episode of crime R defined we're super excited to feature as our guest one of the lead LAPD detectives that handled the Sandra bulock stocking case yeah he's a real interesting guy our interview guest today Jeff Dunn recently retired from the LAPD as a head of the threat management unit AKA tmu he was with LAPD for 32 years where he investigated or supervised thousands of stalking and threat related cases he also specialized in cases involving burglary child abuse and sexual assault Mr Dunn is routinely sought out as a subject matter expert on the topic of threat assessment for television programs magazine and newspaper articles and forensic case studies and in addition to all of that you may have seen Jeff recently on the 2020 special commemorating the 30-year anniversary of the tragic death of actress Rebecca Schaefer at the hands of a stalker Jeff also recently provided on camera commentary for reals Channel stalker files a 10 episode series that mayel and I were executive producers on well Dion let's get into the backstory on June 8th 2014 actress Sandra Bullock was at her Belair home and heard some suspicious noises as she peaked out her bedroom door she observed Joshua James Corbett approaching her fortunately she was able to lock herself in a panic room in her closet and notify authorities when Corbett was arrested he had a love letter on him that read Sandy you could have had me today however you chose other people over me I will be around as you know I love you you are very special to me and without you in my life there is only misery I have to wait and wait and you never come perhaps this all supposed to happen some other way perhaps Hawaii or run in on the street who knows I have no idea I love you and Louie and only want to be part of your life I miss you very much and I think of you every moment of every day you are my girl I saw you come home after the AFI Gala and only wished I was at the entrance to your heart when you came home there is two large impervious Gates that no one can open but you I hope one day you open them to me until then I will forever be thinking of you and Louie my son and you are my wife by law the law of God and you belong to me and me to you I forgive you for anything you may have done and only want the chance to love you as you have so made me feel loved if lover I will be waiting by those Gates and when you decide to open them to me I will run to you and forever and always as love and love always you are so hot and intelligent and I will call you please remember me when you feel the need to let someone in always and forever love your husband Joshua James Corbett dated 6714 at 10:37 a.m. now the date of this letter was one day before Corbett actually broke into sander Bullock's house and then Corbett was arrested in Sandra Bullock's home that night after a lengthy legal process he was sentenced to 5 years probation and mental health treatment last year police were dispatched to Corbett's residents after he failed to show up for a court date after a standoff with police unfortunately Corbett took his own life crime redefin is proud to bring you this exclusive interview in which you will learn new and fascinating details about this unfortunate case of the stalking of Sandra Bullock let's do it hi Jeff thank you so much for joining us today on crime R Define well thank you guys for having me so first question out of the gate is now that you're retired what do you miss most about the threat management unit if anything well of course you know you miss the people uh you do build a camaraderie with the people that you work with and you work around and uh you know I miss that daily interaction with them but you you know quite frankly I don't miss a lot of the uh late night phone calls and from the mayor's office and the chief's office it's nice to get a good night's sleep for a change so uh I still keep in touch with the people I used to work with and uh we do lunch every now and then so I get my figs that way just curiously do they do do they ever reach out to you for you know as the uh seasoned veteran like hey you know we're working on this case or for any insight or is it just just more of just like you said camarate and catching up with the with your team your ex- team no they do in fact I got an email today from one of the guys I used to work with they have a a problem with the paparazzi you know cropping up again and that's something that I dealt with periodically for you know 20 or so years while I was running the unit so I just directed them to some of the fact sheets that I wrote once upon a time and hopefully they can glean the information from that but if they have any follow-up questions they know they can always reach out to me so Jeff give us a little bit of an overview of the threat management unit and also what the elements of a stocking charge actually are well sure the threat management unit uh basically got its start following the Rebecca Schaefer murder in 1989 you know prior to that case uh there were no stalking laws in California or anywhere else for that matter um but that was kind of the Tipping Point for stocking laws throughout the United States California was first on board largely as a result of that case and and what happened with actress Teresa Selana and David Letterman and others but that was kind of the Tipping Point and once the uh once the the law came into effect the Los Angeles Police Department looked at that case and they said well you know what there were some real red flags here that somebody should have seen or or should have been able to intercept along that pathway to violence and and those types of services and that type of investigation typically goes beyond what traditional law enforcement responses are to crime reports so uh in its in its Insight the Los Angeles Department or Los Angeles Police Department decided to create a threat management type unit specifically to address cases like that long-term obsessive type behavior that result in stalking and that's initially how we started back in 1991 uh larger as a result of the Rebecca Schaefer case again but U you know our our mission at that point was to deal with celebrity type stocking cases and we were dealing frequently with the entertainment Studios and Lea is awning with them but as you know time progressed and and more acts of targeted violence occurred our responsibilities increased to the point that we're not only handling stocking cases now but we're also handling uh workplace violence cases involving uh City departments and city employees thre of the city's elected officials and other acts or threats of targeted violence well I have two quick follow-ups so you work directly with um the studios and Andor the networks that you would actually get calls from them to say Hey listen one of our celebs Our Stars are getting uh you know are getting harass yes as as a matter of fact I you know at one point in time I had eight detectives working for for me and each one of those detectives were assigned two Studios to Liaison with um so that they would be the point of contact should they have a problem similar to what you just described they wouldn't have to go through the chain of calling the front desk of Hollywood division getting some desk officer that that scratched out a memo and forwarded it to a detective only to be followed up on you know a couple of days later now they had a direct report to us that that had to be huge for them you know that they it was huge for them and it was huge for us because we you know we're getting the information un filtered too um you know we're getting a direct from the source as opposed to uh reading an officer's interpretation of what was described to him you know we're getting a direct from the source so uh it it was beneficial to us from a investigative standpoint and it was beneficial to the victims and to the studios because they were getting an immediate response to the problem what was the where did you what department or or task force were were you working with before and what was the draw to tmu for you well actually I had made detective about a year prior and uh typically when you get promoted on the on the police department you you don't get to stay in your your previous assignment they rotate you to where there's a need and so I got promoted to detective and I rotated to the mental evaluation unit out of detective headquarters division which you know oddly coincidentally was also where the threat management unit got its start but now that I'm housed in the same division with the threat management unit when an opening became available I applied and and uh gratefully I got the job in 1994 and I stayed with it until I retired in 2016 so Jeff uh you kind of touched on this already but besides the Sandra bulock stalking case that we're going to focus on today what are some of the other high-profile interesting cases you were involved in during your tenure with the LAPD well we were involved in a lot of high-profile cases most of them never made it to the media's uh attention and so I'm not going to talk about a case that that's otherwise not public information but uh you know the Madonna case is well documented we worked on the Madonna case uh Steven Spielberg was a victim of stocking we worked on the Steven Spielberg case we assisted on the uh on the Katherine Zeda Jones stalking case with the Los Angeles sheriff's department uh there were a number of high-profile cases Brad Pit uh among many others but uh some of them aren public information so out of respect of the victims I don't want to talk about them at this point understood yeah of course um prior to the Core Sandra bulock case had you had any contact with her on previous cases yeah she's uh she's well you know Sandra bulock is one of those actresses that uh you know she's very congenial Mis Congeniality nice but you know on screen she comes across is very approachable very down to earth and and in fact in real life she is she's a very nice person so uh people like that um typically typically generate a lot of attention and sometimes it's unwanted attention and there had been prior cases involving her what was your official role on the Joshua Corbett case well I I was running the unit I was the officer in charge of the unit so I assigned the case to one of my detectives uh Tina carosi uh who was fairly new to the unit at that time so I assisted her in the investigation as her partner officer well what a uh a trial by fire right right into the uh right into here you go that's how that I'm sorry to interrupt but that's how that unit is I mean most everything that we dealt with was high-profile whether involved a celebrity or one of our City's elected officials or you know City departments it was always the chief's office or the mayor's office that wanted frequent updates and sometimes they got Med attention sometimes they didn't but uh every one of our cases was a was a high-profile case that was under a lot of scrutiny um now at some point I know that you interviewed him what was your uh what was your first impression when you interviewed him at LAPD Jail uh you know clearly uh Joshua had a mental illness and and his mental illness was what was driving his behavior um you know we do our background check before we go into those types of interviews and and you know for whatever we can find on the computer it was clear that you know he was not an evil guy um he certainly wasn't a career criminal there was nothing in the way of you know drug history or criminal history that we could find um he did have some Firearms registered to him so you know by all you know by all measures he was an otherwise law-abiding citizen uh that developed schizophrenia and and that's what was driving his behavior as as it you know was regarding Miss bulock and it affected other areas of his life as well his family suffered and he lost his wife and his child um so you know it's a devastating illness and that uh that was my first impression in talking with him he was quite delusional and that was just right right out of the gate you sat down you're looking across the table from him and you're just like okay this guy's not all here well that and some of the things that were recovered on him at the time that he was arrested you know that he had a he had a journal with him a 15-page journal where he was uh outlining the level of his obsession he he believed that he was married to sa Bullock he believed that he was the father of her adopted child and and just so you know she's white uh Joshua Corbett was white her adopted son is African American so you know probably you know a problem yeah that kind of demonstrates the level of you know delusion that he had but uh you know quite delusional in his writings and he wrote a love letter to her proclaiming that she was his wife and that they were going to be together it's some point uh so you know taking that into account and then how he presented during the interview it it was pretty apparent to me that we were dealing with somebody with a significant illness so prior to him actually entering Sandra Bullock's house had he been previously observed hanging out around her house well not that she had noticed personally but after the fact you know once he was arrested she does have surveillance cameras on her property and we were able to access the surveillance tapes and and and uh we know for a fact uh that for at least 3 days prior to him entering her house he was parked across the street surveilling the residents often times for multiple hours at a time on one occasion he was there from 10 in the morning until 11:00 at night he would often get out of his car uh walk walk past the front gate rang the doorbell try to make contact with people inside even his journal uh that he had with him at the time that he was arrested shows that he was there for at least three nights prior to the actual Breakin and and how like physically did he break into her house well you know she's got these uh let me see if I can describe it she had these dual sliding glass doors uh that accessed her patio to the rear of the house and these sliding glass doors meet in the middle and there's a dead B deadlock type latch uh that secures the two doors also at the base of the two doors there's a pin that goes into the floor that that keeps the doors from you know sliding back and forth and swaying back and forth well she had locked the deadbolt but she hadn't placed the pins into the floor so that gave these two doors a little bit of play and what he had done is he he forced the doors back and forth uh until there was enough of an opening that the that the deadbolt disengaged and he was able to gain access that way and and what else did Corbett have on him when you when he was arrested well he had a concealed weapons permit from the state of Utah which was a bit concerning um especially after we did his uh his weapons check and we discovered that he had eight Firearms registered to him some of them were handun guns so you know here we got a guy that has a concealed weapons permit so you know conceivably he's proficient with guns and in fact he's got eight guns uh registered to him so that was quite concerning did he also have some kind of magazine cutouts of Sandra bulock with him as well he did he had I think there were four or five photographs of her that he had cut out of various entertainment type tabloids and had uh and had with him with his journal and the Love Letter intended for her as well as you know the other items inside of it wallet which included a de concealed weapons permit so now kind of looking at the other side of the coin um how did Sandra bulock initially become aware that someone was in her house and how was it that she could prevent a physical encounter with Corbett well you know it you know it's hard to imagine and and put yourself in that position but she had arrived home from an entertainment uh event about 1:00 the morning that same morning and she immediately showered and went to bed so she was asleep and had about 6:00 in the morning she was awakened by loud banging which we now know were those two glass doors being forced open so she looked outside of her bedroom door after a period of time and saw uh Joshua walking past her bedroom door on the second floor of her of her home she lived in a three L home here her bedroom's on the second floor and as she cracked her door and peaked outside she could see Joshua walking past her door as he was presumably going room to room searching for her so she immediately locked her door uh she had a bit of a safety room uh she was fortunate that she uh she had a private security guard uh by the name of a wire reader who was a former SWAT officer for the Los Angeles Police Department so he had some insight as far as security and and he was able to set up sort of a safety room for her and her walk-in closet uh he fortified the door and he put a phone line inside of her closet she was she was able to lock her bedroom door secure herself inside of her walk-in closet and make a phone call from inside of her walk-in closet did I read something that Corbett was kind of studying the security guard and what his routine was well that was his that was his statement uh when we asked him why he had forcibly entered the house and and was actively looking for SRE bulock his statement was that uh he was just trying to show her that she was vulnerable and that the security uh guard wasn't doing his job and that her location or her house was penetrable so I don't know if that was so much an accurate statement on his part or a way to to uh uh take away some of the blame from his stocking type Behavior Uh but that was certainly a statement that he made I had read in a transcript that one of the arresting officers said that corbid you know once he was arrested kept saying sandy sandy sandy please don't press charges and you know I'm sorry I love you Sandy and he appeared just kind of out of it Jeff in your professional opinion what does that kind of indicate to you about his mental defect well I think that in conjunction with the writings that he had on his person certainly you know solidified my impression that he had a thought disorder um you know when we deal having having worked the threat man just to back up a little bit having worked the threat management unit for as long as I did having handled so many celebrity cases one thing that we do see from time to time is a is a mental illness called a Romania and a Romania quite often is a feature of schizophrenia but it's the false belief that someone rich or famous is in love with you we saw it in the Madonna case uh we we saw it in the Katherine Zeta Jones Michael Douglas case we've seen it in other cases involving high-profile celebrities and uh this this was just a feature of that and so it was completely consistent with what we've experienced before uh calling out to Miss Bullock claiming that he loved her and that he was sorry please don't press charges it indicated that he felt that there was some sort of a relationship between the two of them um you mentioned uh the Firearms what other evidence did you find at his residence um in addition to the firearms and I understand that there was a number of uh other firearms that that weren't registered that he didn't have a license for yeah that's correct you know one thing that we did uh actually the the responding Patrol officers did at the time that he was arrested is they sought an emergency protective order protecting Miss Bullock and you preventing him from going anywhere near her for a period of usually they're good for about 72 hours and the officers couldn't know how long he was going to be in custody because things happened with the court system and with jails so they they they saw fit to get the emergency protective order on behalf of Miss Bullock so what that emergency protective order does is it carries with it a firearm restriction it requires that Joshua has to divest himself of any and all firearms in his possession uh and he can do that in any number any number of ways he can sell them which was not practical because he was in jail um he could he could sign them over to somebody else which is not practical because he was in jail or he could surrender him to the police so with that is the background when we interviewed Joshua uh we pushed to get those Firearms you know I was quite concerned about the fact that uh here we have a guy that's clearly delusional clearly acting on his compulsions and he's got several firearms that we know of that are registered to him and now we have a cord order that says we can seize those Firearms uh thereby safeguarding the victim and and and public so uh that was that was our Focus we ultimately went to his house and uh we opened up his gun saves and I know you want to get into this in a minute but uh far more Firearms than we knew that he had registered to them he had 25 firearms in total some of them were converted to fully automatic most of them were assault type rifles several hundred pounds of ammunition and some explosive devices so uh we of course seiz those but in addition to those uh we also seiz computers uh we did a search warant on his home uh we located basically a shrine to sandre bulock inside of his bedroom where he was writing with a uh permanent marker on the walls CP messages directed to her proclaiming his love and their relationship uh it it was it was quite a shrine interesting so Jeff how did you feel about Corbett's ultimate sentence of I think it was five years probation and time in a mental health treatment facility you know I I got to tell you I think that ultimately mental health was the preferred way to go with this case uh again I I I I said it initially Joshua Corbett wasn't an evil person he certainly wasn't a career criminal his mental illness was driving his behavior um I don't believe that he belonged in prison I do believe that he belonged in a secured mental facility where he wouldn't be able to uh come and go freely until the Staff determined that he was suitable for discharge uh so you know something in the way of mental health treatment I think is approp was appropriate in this case I didn't see this as a state prison type case um but the fact that he was able in a very short period time to get stabilized and you know they do respond to medication he was stabilized and then discharged from the hospital so even though he was still on probation he was on probation as an outpatient and he was supposed to report back to the court which ultimately he didn't do but uh I think I think mental health um resources were the right call on this particular case I just don't think it was implemented uh correctly and prior to the uh legal resolution of the case he was in county jail for what about 3 years yes I believe so um you know this this case has its preliminary hearing of course and that takes some time uh the the defense attorneys appealed uh the evidence they had an Evidence hearing which I testified at um the evidence was initially upheld when I say evidence I mean the seizure of all the weapons and the ammunition that was initially upheld and then it was appealed and worked its way through the appeal process so ultimately it went to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals nth Circuit Court of Appeals ended up suppressing the evidence which resulted in the mental health resolution on the case so it was it was a it was a long and winding road to get to that point and during that time he was in custody and would he have been at the Twin Towers facility in County as far as I know he was yes and so I mean do you think that he was likely receiving adequate mental health while he was in County Jail Mental Health treatment well they do have resources there for mental uh for for the mental eel but that said it's not the it's not the in-depth type treatment that he would receive at a uh at a at a medical facility I basically it's medication uh nothing in the way of counseling uh nothing in the way of uh you know monitoring his behavior with the other inmates that sort of thing basically it's giving him his medication at the prescribed uh time interval so uh nothing in the way of psychiatric help as you and I would would understand it if you're uh if you're comfortable sharing with us uh can you tell us how The Saga of Joshua Corbett finally came to an in yeah you know unfortunately uh he was a troubled soul and U after he was discharged uh from the mental health facility uh what happened is what often happens in cases like this schizophrenics the medication for schizophrenia and For Thought disorders has some very unpleasant side effects so what we see frequently is that uh once left to their own devices subjects will typically try to wean themselves off the medication some of the side effects include you know sleeplessness and and impotence and and uh other things sluggishness depression so what we see frequently is that subjects will try to wean themsel off the medication and I I believe ultimately that's what happened uh he fell back into his his thought disorder and his mindset and he started to uh to uh not attend the regular uh Court appearances uh reporting to the court as he was required to do Under the terms of his probation showing that he's complying with all of his outpatient treatment etc etc he uh he failed to report to the court and the court ultimately uh issued a bench warrant for his arrest which went to the warrant service detail of the Los Angeles Police Department who in turn contacted the threat management unit because we were the initial case in investigating the uh the investigation so uh in conjunction with the tmu our warrant service officers went out to Cor house to affect an arrest based on the bench warrant issued by the court and he barricaded himself inside uh stood at the door and said he would kill anybody that came in after him he would shoot anybody that came in after him and ultimately what resulted was a 5 to six hour SWAT standof with Joshua barricaded inside of his home uh and he ultimately committed suicide and he didn't he cut himself isn't that how he died I believe so the autopsy report indicated that he died from numerous ler ations to his arms and to his legs it's just you know it's it's a very tragic outcome yeah you know this is one of those cases you just can't feel good about you know it uh clearly um he was a he was a normal law biting guy until the onset of his schizophrenia which is what drove him to do what he did and brought him to police attention you know clearly his family suffered with his mental illness they suffered through the trial and with the publicity that happened uh he certainly suffered with his mental illness you know the few interactions I've had with SRA bulock I can tell you that you know she's a genuinely nice person and and I think in an abstract way you could say that maybe his suicide provided her some sort of relief but I'm I'm sure she doesn't feel that way this is not the conclusion that she would have liked so you know this is just one of those cases where there was no happy ending and you really can't feel good about the outcome no you know I I obviously for for anyone whether it's a celebrity or not you have a lot of compassion I have a lot of compassion for sander bulock no one should you know in their home have an Invader that's that's got to be just you know this the scariest scenario that you can imagine but but at the same time if if someone's not in their right mind you know it's like you were saying you you you feel for them you know because just they just are not in control of of their actions and so you know you have to have a little as a human beings we have to have a little bit of compassion for him as well sure and that's not lost on police officers you know we feel compassion towards uh you know towards individuals all the time you know usually when you're investigating a case as a cop you can look back and say okay well I took a real bad act or the street and you know I've enhanced Public Safety and and I've provided the the victim some relief etc etc but you know that that's just not the case with this particular case I I I really truly believe that Joshua corba belonged in a secured mental institution uh for an extended period of time getting intense treatment and and medication and that just didn't happen on this particular case and it's a sad outcome for everyone well why don't we lighten this up a little bit Dion what do you think sure all right Jeff here's the question of the day uh tell us how awesome it was to work with us on stalker files and how much fun it was to have us on set staring at what you while you did take after take and that's not an indictment that you I knew it no that's not the case you're Rock take after excellent take yeah you know what it it was a good time and I really enjoyed my time on hopefully we'll get another season out of it absolutely at some point but no it was a good time and and U you know most of the cases are ENT aining that that we worked on and I know there's a public interest for him and I don't mind sharing that information when you know when it's already public and there's some information out there about it I don't mind sharing you know our investigative perspective on on those types of cases so it was a fun thing to do you guys were real good to me it was you know what's nice about that is that very rarely do you get a you know kind of a a little Peak behind the curtain of how these different task force work and so your your expertise and your willingness to share everything in detail was really amazing and it was it was a pleasure working with you and then again today to have your Insight on this case oh well thank you guys and right back at you it was a pleasure working with you and and hopefully this isn't the end of it absolutely yeah thank you so much Jeff for being with us on crime R toine today we really appreciate it yeah appreciate your time thank you guys wow what an interesting Journey Through the Sandra bulock stalking case Jeff I think really provided us with some great details and I suspect a lot of those have never been revealed before Dean what were your takeaways I agree I did learn a couple of new nuggets in there that uh that I had that I didn't know before um and I can understand why people are so fascinated with this subject matter unfortunately someone must suffer first yeah that's a good point you know Mr defense guy what grabbed your attention from the interview well I thought it was interesting that you know given that Corbett had so many guns and so much ammunition and even explosive devices that it seems like he could have gotten some serious prison time here but because a lot of that evidence was excluded the only remaining charges were burglary and stalking and that actually opened the door for what seemed like was a more appropriate sentence so I just wanted to point out some of the irony here you know a lot of the times the defense gets a bum wrap but here by pushing the issue and getting those charges thrown out they actually open the door for an out that was more treatment based and less punishment based and it seemed like Jeff was actually on board with that outcome so after it All Shook out it seemed like the the outcome in terms of the sentence was good for everybody you know I agree he did seem comfortable with uh what the terms were at the end you know Jeff also mentioned the stocking case of Madonna Spielberg Katherine Zeda Jones and all of these uh all of these stocking cases were featured in episodes of stalker files but another one was the Rebecca Schaefer case that according to Jeff seemed to be the impetus for the laws for better laws investigation and techniques do do you agree with that yeah yeah it absolutely was and so for our listeners who aren't very familiar with that case Rebecca schaer was a model and actress who is probably best known for her role on the 80s sitcom my sister Sam and she starred alongside Pam Dober who of course is of Moran Mindy Fame now Rebecca schaer had a stalker who was very aggressive his name name was Robert BAU and in one incident he actually tried to get on the Warner Brothers lot to get to her and ultimately in 1989 BAU was able to get her home address if you can believe that and he went there and when Rebecca Schaefer opened the door he shot her Point Blank and uh ultimately this case was Tried by Marsha Clark of the L's office who of course went on to do the OJ Simpson case yeah I remember that that case and it was extremely sad I even remember on the news of him trying to get on the the Warner Brothers lot but I it's just crazy it seems like all high-profile cases go all go back to the players involved with the uh with the OJ Simpson Cas yeah it's almost like six degrees of separation with Kevin Bacon yeah it really is you know I I can't help but think the impact now of social media has had on these cases it's I really believe it's thrown gasoline on it y because you know potential stock or people let's put this way they're not going out to be stalkers they have some degree of mental illness and now they they know where celebrities are you know almost 247 they feel closer to them you can go on to Instagram and literally almost see pel talk pelow talk sometimes so I I just think it's it's made a you know it's exacerbated these situations what do you think well yeah not to mention I think you could almost make the argument that social media has exacerbated and accelerate the onset of mental illness itself yeah that's a great Point as well so another takeaway I had was that um you know on one hand Corbett when he entered Sandra Bullock's house it wasn't particularly violent the way he did it I mean yeah he he jumped over the fence and he found like a loose door uh you know he didn't have any weapons on him and like Jeff was saying he made this statement that well in a way I was doing her a favor because I was observing her security and I wanted to point out to sander bulock that her security was very vulnerable and she needs to tighten it up but obviously he was a danger I mean due to his aania and all the guns they later found at his house but one thing that we didn't get into specifically with Jeff was that if you look at the court proceedings when they talk about that notebook that 15 pager that Corbett had in his hand besides all the other bizarre stuff there was some very salty language that were essentially suggestions that his intention was to sexually assault Sandra bulock that's right and and that for me um that escalation I think is one of the main reasons that we have an LAPD threat management unit today yeah absolutely well said you know this was another really interesting discussion uh thanks mayle and I want to say thank you to our listeners be sure to uh like us on Facebook and follow us on Instagram and Twitter at crime read toine thank you for listening to the crimer redefined podcast like us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Crim redefined please send us your comments and questions and join us for the next episode