EP9 Australian Fashion Authority Founder and Creative Director of PE Nation With Pip Edwards

welcome to the growth and banter podcast my name is Blake MCA CEO and founder of GMS Media Group one of Australia's leading digital marketing agencies this podcast is for anyone looking to learn the insights and strategies of how to lead a successful life from industry leaders today we've got pip Edwards from PE nation and she's going to be sharing her life and journey of how to build a successful business and the recent Rebrand of PE Nation I hope you enjoy [Music] welcome piip hi Blake how are we um we're we're good we're fresh fresh off a plane happy ready to talk to you very good yeah so you've just had a bit of a a break over in barley maybe we we get into that and talk about your little journey and your experience you've just come off the plane so thank you for even just making it um but yeah told me through your your recent little journey in barley I um I it's been a it's been a big um year and a half in my life at work and I just really knew that I needed to take a a moment to just reset and recharge I call it solar charging cuz that's my source of energy that fuels me up and I just had to get away and um try and sit still which was actually really hard the first couple of days and then I really lent into it so it was a really amazing trip and I and I went solo for the first time in 44 years I traveled solo confronting and [ __ ] amazing at the same time and and you and you realized you love yourself I realized yeah I was a little bit worried about spending too much time with myself um but I just yeah there's you know it it for someone that operates at such a turbo level that is always on and and and gets energy from people and I'm so gregarious that um even though I'm an only child I I'm sometimes terrified of being by myself with my own head because there's so much going on in there but no better place than to confront that in barley where you know you can actually I don't know just literally solar charge and just switch off yeah seems to be a bit of it was a balance of downtime and energizing uptime but um it was it was just what I needed it's what the body needed and the body told me that the body told me I needed to have a break yeah absolutely and you've obviously been through a lot with PE Nation as a brand you know you've got a lot going on um personally socially you know that I can imagine that switch off is is so important and particularly really hard to do though I think when you're on that hamster wheel and especially um with PE Nation just going through a Rebrand and and we had to do that from ground up um so it was there was a lot in the background um and when you're wired that way for a good 25 years of your career it's quite hard to take the pedal off think that oh my gosh can can things still go on yeah um and reality is downtime is the is the key to progress yeah I always find when I take little times off like I'm I'm a big advocate of even if it's just a week like I'm taking a week off not the next week the the following week after my birthday and I did the same last year and it was just a week you know it's not a big 4- we EUR trip and it just allows me to to refresh and think creativity so then I come back to the business and I've got some insight or at least a good idea to inject back in and it allows you to sort of reset and just well you've also got to you've got to allow your brain to switch off to think to be creative and sometimes in my industry I guess when which is what you're doing day is creative and you have to be creative on call and to a critical path and on you know on schedule um it's not your best work necessarily so you got to take a back step to to also listen to your own gut and your own intuition rather than all the noise that gets thrown at you um so it was really nice to say what bubbled to the top about how I felt about things yeah awesome any Big takeways Woo stuff going on hey I love that stuff I'm I'm in the middle not in the middle just started a 10day detox so no sugar no caffeine um yeah that will never happen for me it's it's like I thought giving up alcohol is hard giving up sugar yeah giving up sugar has been one of the toughest things and I've done like a three-day before but 10 days of just yeah no caffeine no sugar the last 48 hours of just being exhausted Sugar's a tough one because it actually is in a lot of foods anyway and then the additional foods that you eat and you don't realize actually how much sugar we have even the fruit and like you know the the coffee and the milk and just yeah all the sauces that you put on food it's insane yeah I'm not doing that no I don't recommend it I don't recommend it but hopefully after the 10 days I'll be feeling feeling somewhat recharged um but you've you've gone through would you call it a Rebrand or refresh or relaunch of PE Nation an evolution Evolution yeah the next the next stage of of the progression in the brand um obviously you've sort of were able to do that at the the fashion week and then you've gone as far as even stripping the whole socials back to square one yeah how yeah I guess um you know when we started PE we had such a strong DNA a strong aesthetic and it was quite disruptive at the time and um you know we really hit a trajectory that we couldn't even imagine um that it would resonate so well um but over the time people catch up like Brands catch up globally and um and then you get on that hamster wheel and then with critical path I don't know if everyone understands but we work a year and a half in advance so to affect change it takes a lot of time so it's not even a season in advance it's a whole year and a half no it was planned a long time ago but also in this digital landscape which is really ramped up over the time through the course of our business Trends and what um you know what people are wearing and Lifestyles have dramatically changed so to be adaptable to that actually has to have a lot of foresight so um it's something we've been working on literally for about 2 years but it took a good 9 to 10 months to strip back analyze all the data do a whole like ranging architecture pricing architecture and really get back to our roots to really understand what what what was our purpose because you can lose that along the way and you can take on a lot of that noise um and then we all had this Collective team idea of what we wanted PE to be and it was going to be so different to the PE that everyone knows but we had to be conscious of you know not turning our backs on our loyal customers but also re-educating them on this Evolution and how to step forward and we went for it and boy did we go for it I mean to wipe the Instagram was a really bold move but we had to because it was such a marked difference to the PE that everyone knew we didn't want to compare but um fashion week was probably one of the biggest Milestones of um my career to date with PE because congratulations thanks well I mean I'll tell you what the night before I was still like going what the [ __ ] is this going to work is this going to work but um I think when you have all the metrics and you've done all the research behind it and you know that it's authentic to where we want to go and what we want to be um you've just got to commit and do it and yeah the result was overwhelming M um so it's um reinstated our position as being you know a fashion Lifestyle brand really like still anchored in active way but it's really about life and I think that's that speaks to where how everyone's living today you know absolutely yeah and like you know I think fashion is it's sort of stays stagnant then it changes overnight like there's been a huge amount of change you know from skinny leg to now the baggies coming back and I feel like there's all these different totally but then you had Tik Tok and Instagram and you've got weekly Trends right just so hard so you got to like pick and choose what's on brand but I think for us you being insatiably curious drives change and change is the only way to progress and you can never rest on your laurels with any brand you obviously have a DNA umbrella but you just can't keep repeating stuff and you've got to always be ahead so that's really hard when you do have a big business that's structured with a lot of Staff but um it's exciting and it's exciting to challenge again you know I think um we were really lucky to start when we did and then got that Co hit and you know for unfortunately for most but fortunately for us in the right category it worked really well but that then then before you know we it was like four years had passed after Co and you're like oh my God we're still the same yeah and you can't stay the same can't life is not static so your business can't be yeah they say business between that sort of s to 10 year mark yeah you should be um you should be either looking to innovate change or exit you know so like that's that's the sort of average of When a business starts I guess hitting that bell curve of stagnation and you know you have to innovate you have to change I mean not to get woooo but like that aaic idea of like creation plateau destruction from destruction comes creation and that's the cycle and it's not destruction but it's like you've got to you you create you find your level but then you've got to kind of pull it apart again to create again to go for yeah Abol forward yeah I mean we're we're doing something similar of you know we you know in a small business working with small clients you sort of we've sort of reached that PL in a way without us having to I guess aggressively hire which you know is risky in our industry a lot of agencies out there so we're thinking okay do we exit but then we're a small business so it's not really worth losing our business and then you're going to look for a job or do we go the other path and you know start collaborate we do a lot of collaborations so we're doing grow by collab so we're building another agency that will have you know the ad wi the creative wing and then the web and Tech wing and then we all go together and build a much bigger umbrella this thing I mean those situations allow for such to create these new opportunities that are exciting and I think you can't it's actually you're stronger together in all those ideas but it it forces you to find creative ideas and I think that's what keeps for me um with the business 9 years old and it's quite a structured business now I really love the intimacy of that startup mentality so I really love going back to that passionate be across the board and that and I feel like where that's where round two of that again yeah um I think magic comes from that yeah absolutely yeah and I guess we'll uh wind the clock back a little bit CU I like talking about our story and how we met um I remember I had everybody knew it's good that's it that's it I remember I had an office in leport um and I remember I think we might have said hi to each other briefly and the in the corridor yeah and then I mean I was I was shooting there you were yeah the creative creative studio and then um and then coincidentally right before Co hit I ended up moving right next to you and I couldn't have had a better neighbor likewise for the lockdown yeah how good was that thinking back on it I was like you know lockdown is heavy but then like that was that was such a cool period of time it was very special for my son and I because um shout out to jam man shout out to Justice like a little brother ah he is and but like just be for everyone out there the our doors with side by side and I mean legal but in terms of lockdown but we kept our doors open because it just allowed for us to not be you know not bang ourselves against the four walls and be able to still communicate with people cuz you needed that and there was a time you know like I think people forget I mean we didn't have it as bad as say Melbourne but our building we had that social sort of community going on and like whether we were talking over the fence or through the door um you we're doing yog it saved us it did yeah absolutely and um it was just cool to sort of yes you know hang together and see the brand evolv since then as well like I always think Co was yesterday but that was like what four years ago when it started crazy and you know I remember you sort of went into cuz I know you you've gone from female only to unisex and then I was begging you I'm like get the get the male sort of cuz like started wearing you know truckies at home so that evolution of trend and fashion too and now so you've gone back to just female only with your new launch so when we started PE it really it was obviously a female well that was our Forte Claire and I that's what we knew um and really we were always fashion first and this is and then the interesting thing is you go build a business you get wholesale accounts and they start to they start to kind of pigeon hole you in a way um and then they got us going down this discipline Road and then they wanted this specific Men's Wear we had men always buying the women's wear because our our style was tomboy it was oversized so it could fit men and I'm sure the women were buying them for their boyfriends but then we started to listen to all this noise and um did men's wear and men's Weare actually did well and it actually does really well in our store in the city but it wasn't still got all the chies still wearing it yeah they were great but it wasn't really the core of the business and I think with the Rebrand we just really had to go back to what we knew and who we were because you can absolutely get derailed along the way and it's just so important to be and stick to Brand so with this Rebrand we we stuck to what we what our strengths were um you know admittedly over the time we did Branch out quite quickly and did a lot of things like ski wear and um all the other collabs and and that's all well and good because it's all part of an active lifestyle but when you're rebranding and you're making a statement you you you don't deviate it's it's it's not about adjacency it's about potency so um but in in the beginning um you know when you when you were leveraging off collabs and Partnerships like talk us through that strategy how important it was I guess in just the infancy of P Nation to go through and do those snow collabs and the you know the I need a bkb yeah there's a few one I mean like even before we brought I had a I I've got a had a lot of connections and relationships from my previous roles and career but um what I knew about marketing is that it's important to create context it's important to create a situation that brings the product to life um but also that plays to the passions of what we love doing um so the snow thing was a really big part actually what people don't know is that when we did our first collection the first piece it was based off so PE to everyone is physical education and it's so nostalgic like everyone knows what PE is you know it was your favorite like sport at school like favorite class but it was that coincidental with Pip Edwards of course it was a little was a little um but um our first thing we ever designed that set the tone for the business was a retro SK jacket it was based off retro that Nostalgia of ' 80s 90s and no one knows that and so but CLA and I we mad skiers so it was a natural progression to do skiing because it played to the lifestyle but um all of that stuff gives color richness um it gives purpose it gives um and also create eyeballs exposure it's start allows you to expand and so we did collabs with DC first just to kind of get the credibility I think it's important when you collab you got to collab with brands that go outside of your box but have credibility so that it actually brings in more um more credibility and more eyeballs in the right direction exper ites that growth and you're able to align with other brands that have already established with a similar clientele so yeah it speeds that up because it's very hard to enter a market um and build that trust and that is literally and especially in the active um category performance and um all those kind of properties to the product that that's that's a oneon-one that's Paramount so you have to you have to coll out with people that are credible in their space yeah yeah what do you think was the the best or breakthrough collaboration you had oh it was the best but ended up being quite an interesting end to it it was our H&M one finally enough we were so lucky to be approached by H&M we're the first Australian brand that ever approached uh to do a collab and it was very early on in the day it's like it was pre-co just before Co and um it and it was the first time they actually wanted the founders of the business in The Campaign which was crazy and it was a global one but we went and launched it and that was an amazing experience just working with such a huge Global brand going to Stockholm and going to all their supply chains and it was just amazing but we launched it in New York and the minute we launched it this was like of 2019 we launched it in New York left New York New York went into lockdown we went to LA launched it in LA as soon as we left la la went into lockdown we got we came back to Australia launched it in February 2020 icebergs really great awesome awesome best sell through four days of craziness then the country went into lockdown my God so we we did get a great exposure from it but I don't think we got the legs we deserved just because of what happened yeah fair enough yeah and like when you cuz PE has not been around for very long times8 years and I remember when when we were when I first met you we're living together you're like three or four years into it and already crushing it um obviously that comes with having some foundational skill set and knowledge so prior I guess stepping into P Nation you know your your PRI experience with like subie and even prior to that really know the how long I've been in the industry for yeah exactly right so like obviously there has to be something there for a while two things um I was also corporate so I used to work at Price waterhous Coopers so I'm numbers driven numbers wir which is crazy cuz numbers into creativity like people usually have one or the other no so I always had I'm always found founded in numbers but my my creative brain overpowers so whatever decision I make I feel it's always Comm commercial it's always feasible but it'll always be a disruptive creative but um leaving PWC and going to subie was pivotal for me in learning how important brand was those boys um they were their ride or die was brand um and someone said the business you know obviously subie was like the it brand when I was younger like you had a pair of subies on it's like your your status they really they really nailed fusing Community before social media even understood what community was and the way they their accessibility they were the coolest guys um super creative super gorgeous but they used music as a very powerful tool to connect to people um and that was genius I I don't even think they understood that that they were creating a marketing strategy that had never been done before um and I really took note of that and I was quite in the middle of that and they were right in the Zeitgeist of Sydney where all the Muse were coming to town um and the subie boys had all the connections so suddenly they were creating this fabric that was so based on culture of Pop Culture subculture but Global culture um in the peak of King's cross night life as well they had their Bang Gang night bangang cl7 if WS could talk but um any International act that would come to Australia to perform would absolutely hang out with the boys go to bang gang do side side gigs and and it and it abled these kids to who maybe not could afford a pair of sub jeans at the time they were able to be around the environment and feel like they were part of it and that that that that is what we are still today trying to strive is to create a community that is so loyal that understands what a brand is and I just don't know there's been another brand that has been able to execute that really well yeah you see it in micro versions but like well they're fabricated now this was such an authentic organic roll out that it was and it was Word of Mouth it was like you only knew about it you missed it you didn't see it on Instagram you weren't like wasn't this like front-facing thing it was just the illusion The elusive mystery of what everyone was doing was the excitement yeah it was the the mistake around it and the scarcity of the product as well and the the if you couldn't buy the jeans you could go on a Friday night to the bangang party and you'd see all the boys up there and so you'd almost be able to touch them and be a part of it but like and I think it really served them well so well that that good willll they created that brand Equity they created back then still holds strong today and it's still so powerful in America right now even when they had to go from the tsbi to K oh my God sorry genius yeah still still silent yeah exactly so good I actually prefer it now you know over time oh it was one of the most genius I just that so that that so that experience was pretty amazing in terms of branding but also I learned a lot about branding around product and logo and logo placement and any which way the jeans would turn there was some little logo or icon or something where you could actually see the jeans when they were gifting they never had to it wasn't about there was no tagging or anything like that you knew you knew that that was a subie jean so I took that quite well when we started little windows and then the crosses and there was a special side stitch so that that was something that was an amazing learning um and then I went to uh sassin bide which was you know I went from a boy club to a Girls Club um and that was amazing creatively because those girls had such a creative brain in terms of the brief and I worked directly with a creative director I was senior creative um and understanding how she brought architecture and color and perspective and everything that's around us that's so every day how she would look at it in such a unique way that I that and that's that was something I've taken on as well for PE so that was an amazing and working with women sorry but like it was just such a beautiful nurturing experience um so I've had those two worlds um and then sorry am I giving you like a little numbers and sub and then and and then that business though to be part of a business that really flourished like before I guess the whole um amazing success of the Zimmerman today our most successful brand was sass bide because of them what they what their Enterprise Value was and what they sold for and those girls um again authentic to who they were never deviate off brand um stuck to the stuck to their guns and I think that's really hard today a lot of Brands Chase a lot of BRS chase the trend Chase they don't know who they are so I was really fortunate to work for two iconic Australian brands that did not did not alter they they did they wouldn't they they would never compromise so that's pretty amazing to experience that and then I worked for General pants so that was the that was the other a pivotal part because um I was design director there but I was actually accountable for product uh nationally and to work for for a national brand that was a multi-branded brand but understanding geography and Dynamics and seasonality within the country and also at a tier that was more mass and it's at the end of the day what do people want to wear and why are they wearing it it's actually that [ __ ] simple it's not about you actually got to know your customer so I went from like being design purists brand purists like you know being disruptive to then going what what does the everyday person need I can't like that Priceless experience yeah it's just understanding customers needs and having that brand archetype and identifying that every brand that we've worked with that crushes it you know it might be only might be only one% customer first yeah and they just know their customer inside and out and they build that community and that's the I remember when I started at General pants um you know that was actually one of my first jobs I worked at General pants in it was a lot I mean I it was when I was at Uni it was my first job on the floor I always worked retail and that's another really important part too if that's what you're going on to do working retail really is um it's just the reality check it's like you think you know what people want to wear but then you look at who comes through the door and you're like hang on a minute it's so different to what you think is in your head so one of my first tasks working at General pants was um my CEO at the time Craig King he made me go and work all the stores around to go hang on you can sit in head office and you can you know pick Trends and decide what to wear but go see who walks in and go we'll get you a budget and you got to make it and you're got to ask them why and it's the why and that was ingrained in me and so having all of those parts pull that together and then it came to PE it honestly I feel like I took the best of all of those bits you have yeah it's just taking all those like golden nuggets not to say like everything was perfect but I just understood the macro and the micro yeah yeah and the numbers and the creativity that that amazes me cuz like I said like that's that's a hard combination to to have well I think I think in general naturally being you know just from University and being working four years at Price waterhous Coopers it doesn't matter what it is like I'm I'm just my that's how that's my Bas so anything on top of that is just yeah um sweet price point I want to um with with the subie going I'm back at that the um the warehouse sales that they to do like it was like it was literally the cues it I want to understand the intricacies of how they did that because it was it was a [ __ ] show Absol [ __ ] show yeah I remember there was one on Cleveland Street um that old church yeah the old church yeah and there was like you like a kilometer lineup of people maybe not that long but very long but like to for them to do that just just really like I guess but it was the best thing as well like it was another way of like I mean those were house sales they happen today but they made those so fun they had the music the boys would be there like they made everything about living and like it was never for them it was never work and I know like obviously it's had a number of lives but the the point is is that it should never really be fully work you've got to really [ __ ] enjoy what you do and that passion has got to come through and then you've also just got to commit to to to the drive of it so um have fun on the way we we don't we we work so hard you got to enjoy it on the way 100% otherwise we'll be taking a week off every second week if enjoy I'll be in Bary every single week I'll join you I'll join you I was there I was about a month and a half ago and I swear I'll never go back but it's actually like put a new lens on on barley and I know there is a lot of like congestion there and my mom was at the same there at the same time she's coming back tomorrow um also on a solo trip um and she said it took her 2 hours to get 18 km so there is I purposely when I got to Barley I went to the opposite side of the island for no temptation just to have some downtime but um I for the I just for a second I went to uwood for the first time that's where she was going uwood I think um from she I did some crazy charic healing and I think I just found this whole other side to Barley yeah there is balance in barley like you can have fun but you can also really Get Back To Nature spiritual health conscious STP it back and I've just had the most life-changing experience with this Shaman and I I'm actually blown away like I'm still digesting what I learned energetically um because it is it's a beautiful Sacred Space sacred land um and I think today when we're in the rat race and we're in the city all the time we don't get back into nature enough don't I forc myself every day to try and go and see the Horizon and Horizon gaze to to realize that we're just bigger than we're part of something bigger than what's our everyday stress and ball and chain and this office kind of environment but we've got to be outside to know that there is there is life and that balance is so important yeah for Mind Body Soul yeah 100% And I feel like not enough of people are spiritual or even connected to their conscious but do you know what co co has brought it to our Forefront and I think that's one of the greatest things that's happened it's allowed us to understand balance and quality of life um maybe God I never know what to call them is it Jen Zed the I don't know on really young ones they've worked it out but they're entitled to it which is annoying but they've worked out that that's actually important so true I've got probably five people under or around that 25 Age and and and again societal shift right like growing up in konala and having the peak of King tros night life like it was it was you'd go out every weekend because it was just a thing right like even when I was at High School in your 12 we'd be going out after after fo0 on a Saturday and now I've got um a lot of my staff doing 75 hard they're doing like 3 months off at a time you know that was just unheard of they worked out that they don't need to do the 9 to5 they remote work they probably remote work better I'm sorry I'm still a little bit old schooled because I really enjoy an office cultureal it does frustrate me a bit I'm still adapting to that change of it being okay cuz I'm actually in the office every day apart from what people might believe I'm in there every day and there's just something about that community and the ease of communication and you know getting things happening I found remote working quite hard but I get that that generation that's all they know and they their currency is their phone and they know how to operate that really well that's so true I think you got to strike a balance I I think yeah I mean some some organizations I know are fully remote and that's great but I think like for certain organizations that doesn't work well particularly when you are trying to educate newcomers yeah product as well product's tangible and some things just happen on the fly when you you need to build build build and have those conversations it's really hard to have those conversations yeah yeah that energy and the the collaboration is missing but it yeah I and but also trust and rapport with your team that's that comes in the flesh that doesn't come over a [ __ ] screen no I agree no I think I think everything with a balance is is important you know we do a a Friday work from home allows me to sort of go out and do for you well funny that like I'm getting we're we're recruiting for some like a new account manager at the moment and we're getting people go well I'm 3-day minimum in the office otherwise you know I'm look look for a role like so there's people out there pitching right now that have like low skills entry level roles that are demanding uh 3 days max in the office so still I thought that was like dead now after but it's just it's just crazy like I remember I'd get a written warning if I was 5 10 minutes late to work I was always accountable for my every six minutes back in the day you get you'd get yeah you'd basically get fired if you rocking up like consistently but yeah societal shift is a is a important thing to know and obviously that plays a huge part of like you know you new releases and and fashion and everything right like there is this health conscious um Society going on right now I don't know if that's isolated to Australia but surely that's expanding globally wellness and that balance of life but even just so the whole thing just to bring it back to the Rebrand like I think we went prior to the Rebrand we went quite strong in down discipline roads like boxing like this usual actual active um disciplines but now there's a there's a global shift for just it's Recreation yeah and that's and so it's the slowing down whether it is the walk or the yoga but it's like the odd things like maybe like paddle tennis or like just Recreation where it's a bit more social that's where it's kind of heading and so that's why our Rebrand is not so marketed at hardcore Fitness it's just about what makes you movement being in motion is so important for mind body and soul so that's our our new motto is uh fashion that move moves with you I love it oh good that's awesome and and and fashion that liberates your day so you can actually just whatever it is whatever kind of movement you do we've got you yeah yeah that's great and um I think also technology plays a big part in people trying to like then have to almost you know um consciously step away into more nature and activities versus like 20 years ago we're already doing that naturally you know everyone was riding their bikes they'll you know they weren't on their computer they'll probably more engaged with each other whereas now we're on our phone and we have to like have those I hate looking at what my screen time says me my God it's it's it's yeah it's it's addictive right so um you have to have those forc times to you know do more activities and plan more things have that yeah that time out on the weekends otherwise you're just easily stuck on the computer then over to I I call it I work on my middle my my mediumsized screen to then go home and watch my big screen and then in between you watch your little screen yeah right okay it's crazy okay so you got to switch off and I think like that that is a huge thing with um with the Rebrand and I guess you know the journey you've had from Co to now and even prior to that what do you think was the biggest challenge that you faced um the greatest the greatest challenge was Co um I just you know initially it was scary as [ __ ] you know um wholesalers were sending back product um you know were closing down the world was closing down um our factories were closing down we were just in our inventory went through the roof we just like oh my god there was no way you could project or forecast what the [ __ ] was going to happen um and then suddenly we were just over indexed and we were just like oh my God and but then the pendulum swung and then it's like oh [ __ ] so everyone who used to be in a suit or used to go to work needed active wh like track suits and then and then things were just flying off the shelf as good as that might have been for our particular category that's actually not how you want to run a business because there was just no way we could have we couldn't keep up with demand we couldn't even trade the product we couldn't even trying to get back into production it was just it was the Wild West like um but we saw the biggest growth and I think we weren't prepared for that and I think that's the thing in business you got to be prepared for growth and we just band-aided our structure we just like piled on piled on structure and you know suddenly you know we went from something like I don't know low 20 staff to like 52 it was crazy wow and then you come out of it and you're like life normalizes and then priorities have shifted and then everyone wanted to go out and everyone wanted to live life and they just want to eat food and travel and this and so suddenly everything normalizes and you know that's really hard when your structur is set up for a trajectory that's not sustainable and then suddenly it turns off so that's been a really interesting process I don't I think that that's a really honest answer to you I don't think um we talk about that a lot yeah it's funny cuz you yeah it's like the other way around like people um might not have had a lot of success over Co businesses were have shut down then they've had to crawl back whereas you've actually had that success then You' built the business you've had to build the business to cope with that chaos and then you've had to equilibri on the back end to then go back to standard so Liv whether you whether you had um a really challenging time in Co or a very successful time in Co it actually has the same level of issues because it's just it's just the flip of the pendulum but um you know and then we just got on this role of just repeating bestsellers and this is where we got quite stagnant so and because we're trying we were trying to you know use S sink or swim so you're just trying to keep up and trying to breathe and just trying to keep going we we really had to stop and take take a step back and that's why we had to do this Rebrand and just go hang on a minute we've gone down this River and like a literal we've been in the flow of this River but is this River where we want to go so it was very brave of us to do that um it took a lot of work um it was a lot of exhausting work but collaborative work um and we yeah we've we got there R River with a big waterfall at the end God boy did I love that waterfall in barley let me tell you I just think of waterfalls waterfalls are an actually amazing analogy just because it just is so cleansing yeah it is absolutely but don't go Chas them right don't go chasing waterfalls do you think please sck to the rivers and the that you used to and she can sing not today but I usually can I've seen you do some collabs with sneaky to with Connie on stage oh yes I've sung a few times on stage still yet to say it but maybe you'll be selling tickets one day um what are you most proud of my son yeah J man I think through this whole journey of work and life he's been your rock he's been my rock um he's nearly at the end of your 12 and he's just the most levelheaded sensitive gorgeous human who is black and white who tells it how it is who schools me to a te who's my North Star who's all these things and you know him um but he if I didn't have him through this roller coaster of life and you know trying to make sense of way we're all learning it's all a work in progress but for some reason he's this weird Oracle that just is quiet and just sees things for what they are um I'm just so grateful that I've had him by my side yeah no he's a he's a special human J man but it's a lot too it's a lot to it's a lot to raise a single mom raise a kid to get tier 12 and but then look at him and go wow he I mean he is who he is that that a lot of it doesn't have to do not to do with me he's born this way um I'm just so happy I'm learning from him you know I miss I can't bring him over and play Xbox with him he's so P that now though babe you've got to play basketball with him now I've given it up too I swear too good um now you spoke about you know prior to co having that International expansion with PE you've peeled it back y um are you just going to focus on the local market are you going back overseas what's no so um the big thing for us we with the Rebrand it's been it's had an amazing response um we've managed to really get some new like Global accounts the biggest Focus for us is community again and really really establishing that connection and connecting with our audience properly I think we just in the thick of it just took our Eye Off the Ball there a little bit um so the next thing is the rebrands been amazing and well Reed so we're going on a a bunch of we call Rec Retreats like we're calling it the wck club as in not like w c k but R EC like Recreation club and I think that's just to play to the way we see life now it's not it's not sporty and it's not discipline it's where we're encouraging Recreation and that's like that is a better quality of life for everyone for anybody and anyone absolutely um so our focus is um bringing those to life and we're doing some uh Rec treats in Australia I'm actually in August going to London to do roll them out there so but but really targeting the cities and targeting the audiences this time it's not a blanket thing but the focus um is La New York La New York London there are there are key cities really I think you've got you've got to really every now and then go pull back and go where are the WIS yeah um you know and really learn from them what's your favorite city outside of City I really love London yeah London's good just wish it had better weather yeah I know it's but then it just PK it would be like flooded with Australians even though it already is I just feel it one with London I think it's my VI I think for our brand the way we style it and wear it it's got it's more of that London Street um obviously I do love New York La is just like a bit like Sydney it's you know the weather's great New York's really cool but London for me is a fashion inspiration I that that's the first thing when I got there the the two surprises I got with London one it's leafy I didn't realize how LEF it is in the summer yeah in the summer but even still there's like lot of of the three weeks that that's Sunny sometimes too um because they don't have their beaches so they rely on their parts right but yeah the the fashion over there um is amazing but that's and that's the Nostalgia for the ogp brand was like the London chav and I know that might not like but the I've always in my mind I I dress like like a 16-year-old boy like that Vibe is the core of everything and um yeah I just think it's about London yeah yeah New York I feel is a bit overwhelming there's a the funny thing is though our brand is bigger in New York than it is in La okay yeah and then Miami yeah Miami yeah not to Miami but that's that's Miami Dallas but it's it's interesting when you you know we we do a lot of heat mapping um just from our own online sales but also from our wholesale accounts um and it's fascinating like where the uptake is yeah that's cool I would not have thought that at all yeah so you obviously embody like a healthy balanced life hence the balanced yes yeah well yeah Bal um but like how do you how do you balance it all I know we've sort of touched on a little bit but what are you sort of goto you know aside from obviously taking breaks Going Back To Nature but on a weekly sort of schedule you know to to sort of run the business you know look after J man um do everything else with your your social networking you know like how what what are your sort of secret Pilates of course that's my that's my meditation I have to do that at least twice or three times a week because because I'm so front-facing and because I have to always uh be presentable and feel good and feel strong Pates is just non-negotiable and I think I'm in need of it cuz my L back I've been telling you this for years like you're just you just don't [ __ ] listen um sorry I swear a bit but um no Pilates is the core and it's and it's the support muscles and the strength I need for if I feel strong and tight and I've I've given myself my body that attention I can conquer my day end of story Nature's massive for me every day I get into nature I I have to go to the cliff and look at the Horizon I think it's really important for everyone Horizon gazing is the thing um especially around sunset or Sunrise it's just um and there's different uh uh what is it the diff the sun gives off different um vibrations at those times which your body does receive and re um and they're receptive to so um yeah nature Pilates you know what else you've got to have a little bit of Joy yeah absolutely for me music and singing is a really big part of what is a release I mean not at at nightclub guys I'm just saying like around the house no 77 anymore I no yeah no no I'm done with this but um I play a lot of Music at home to get my head in a in a in a zone that um just take gets time out um I do a lot of interesting uh traditional and alternative therapy um which I'm really proud of I think think I think the therapy is amazing and it should never be your last resort it it's a work in progress and it's not something tooo it's something if you're on a journey of self and you want to progress and I've got this new motto sorry am I babbling not at all oh sorry okay I've got this new motto um I spent a lot of my life trying to prove myself for whatever reasons prove my parents prove people industry all the things all the things that make us crazy um my thing is not to prove myself anymore but to improve so to improve is to in go inside and really address all the things that we push to the side so and I do that in a number of different ways I do a lot of NLP which is neural Linguistics programming where I go into my Quantum self and do timeline therapy and I find that really exciting and then I see healers and psychics and all the things I I do all of it because I think it adds so much richness and it gives so much more information rather than just textbook stuff and and we're energy based guys we're not textbook we are vibrational we're in motion yeah and I think energy is one of the most powerful things if you know how to read it understand it you can harness it it's way more powerful than the words that come out of your mouth 100% you can tell when someone's there and you're not energetically connected to them like it almost leeches you from you feel a bit that awkward like yuck and you tend to try and make excuses for it if it's off it's off it's off yeah agreed of story so I'm learning to protect my energy not very well um but I'm also learning to read energy and to know uh where the vampires are or where the givers are um and I think that's a really big learning and that's a Forever Learning and that's that's a massive to have like as soon as you can na that skill that's that's going to empower you socially bu you know I think a lot of the time it's all relationships and networking and if you're authentic and you're in your Zone in your energy and you attract like energy that's where the beauty of um you know networking collaborations come from it's not it doesn't necessarily all have to be a business um agenda no and and from from energy comes organic um uh creation yeah and and and that's what I find really exciting so segueing into what I always like to bring up um on these discussions is like having a SWAT team in your life and business so like people around you that you rely on CU we're no one's fundamentally independent as much as I like to think I'm independent you rely on other people you know other people are more dependent than others but building that SWAT team around you to you know live a sustainable life and also to get you where you need to go in business particularly when you hit roadblocks in not knowing what to do or you know whether it is a financial advisor whether it is you know your Pilates instructor talk me through what your SWAT team is maybe you can do some shout outs here it takes a village um my number one would be my mom uh um be just because she gets me the best it's I'm we have an interesting Dynamic but um you know and she's so supportive of justice so I need her I need her I want her and he needs her so for me that that that calms me down in that part um 100% my Pilates instructor 100% my healer to my two healers 100% my best friend Millie 100% my other best friend who's the godfa my child Mikey um people that I've had around me for years um that I trust um and then and then those people yeah they the uplifting people because there's been a lot of people find I find in Sy a lot of people want you to do well but they don't want you to do better than them it's Poppy it's tall poppy syndrome right um and I've obviously copped a little bit um along the way um and it's been a real eye opener on the opportunists versus and the problem for me I'm an empath and I W I've got a big heart and a big sleeve um I really like to believe what people say unfortunately fortunately I'm the only I'm the only one that the difference between but it's reciprocation right like you want someone to be energetically connected but also if you are giving a lot which you do a lot you need that reciprocation in life otherwi like it's one it's one but I then know where I get it from so I can pull it from I can pull it from nature or somewhere else I can get it um but I now need to know I need to just be mindful a little bit Yeah protected of a but um I do have mentors I've got um I've got business mentors my my Once Upon a Time boss U Back in the Day at Su at at General pants um he's still my he's still my mentor which is beautiful that's awesome um and I who else um oh God not many but you know what yourself you've got to be your own self and I think that's why I do a lot of this self um it's the noise and you've got to you've got to hear your intuition yeah and and even though you can have these support networks that give you all their opinions they're not you no so I think the biggest one is really trusting yourself and trusting your gut but then you got to have good gut health to trust that amen amen amen I just found out I'm lactose intolerant so well there you go no more Dairy for play amongst all the other things um that's awesome yeah no it's it's so important to surround yourself with the right people and you know also like the other thing is like expansion and elevation right I think not that like you are you are The Company You Keep and that's all cool you can outgrow relationships and that's cool it doesn't sow doesn't mean anything bad but um I like I'm so I am so curious I am insatiably curious so I love meeting new people going out and all of those things so I I don't ever want to lose that um and I think that's a big way to expand and Elevate that's funny you said that cuz um my m&a business advisor right now who's structuring this whole new agency that's we've been working on in the background for a year that's going to be a 3 to five year plan and you know there's a lot involved in that he does merges and Acquisitions and ex agency and I asked him the question you know what continues to motivate him he's in his 60s surfs you know he's going on a surf trip to Indo soon in five weeks and just has a young soul and he said the same thing he go stay curious and I think that's cuity is the greatest thing for evolution and change and you're genuinely interested yeah and that's the other thing my dad always said he goes don't be interesting be interested be interested and I am I am I am just I'm born to I I don't know I like I'm I'm always looking always watching Always picking up on Dynamics I'm I'm not I'm so open to new experiences like that's what keeps me alive that's what keeps my business going what keeps my vision going I'm I want to know what's going on out there but genuinely I do and I throw myself in those situations I'll go to different festivals or weird experiences or travel or whatever because I'm not scared of that and I don't know if a lot of people do that they like to keep monotonous kind of safe life and I I don't I don't my safety is knowing that I have my foundation with my son and that kind of thing but everything above that is I'm a I'm a free spirit and I think that's been the key to staying ahead yeah yeah yeah such a Taurus but like Comfort love red flag yeah love a red flag but like comfort lot most people probably will live in comfort and not know how to break out of it but like to me comfort's my My Own Worst Enemy cuz if I'm sitting there doing the same thing over and over again I start to become insane the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again right not and not and not get a different results right exactly right expecting you get a different result and doing the same thing every day you know you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you've always got like meing like me not doing Poes and having AA back I've told Blake for as long as I've know him to [ __ ] do Pilates all right we'll do a deal I'll let's check in I'll go I'll go to Pilates with you next week I mean I don't know if you're at my advanced level no definitely not is there a beginner level yeah yeah yeah my my instructor can do like okay cool intro me and I can I can add that to my I need it fine I need it that's a transaction um I guess looking ahead cuz you know it's in your business you you're you're pre you're pre-planning a lot of things you know year and a half ahead of time but for pip like what ises the next sort of you know 5 to 10 years look like for you I'm you know I've really been looking at what defines me in my journey of self and I've come to the realization that PE doesn't Define me and it did for a long time because it was my baby but um I'm in this zone of um you know wanting to explore I because obviously I do a lot of um I'm with IMG so I do a lot of third- party partnership stuff which I love but I'm in this mode of really expanding on my creative experience um and that's not NE that's P still there but I just I want to be able to apply that I just want to see where that goes I I you know the business has grown and because the business have grown I've grown as well um and I've learned so much and I'm just so excited about seeing seeing where those skills can transfer into little random fun projects in other other Industries I'm just whether I'm interested in and I'm not this is talking I've just come off the [ __ ] plane by the way um uh you know Interiors or beauty or I'm just I like I said I'm curious I can't I'm not balling to I can't be that so I'm just um I don't know watch this space well it seems like you've got it figured out so I'm sure I'm sure you're going to experience a lot of I think I think a lot more travel now now that my son is so close to finishing year 12 like my whole my my whole mission in life my number one thing in life was the stability for him and giving him the education he needs and and I've and I've done that and you know and in three months time he's about to leave home so that that's a really big wakeup call for me he's moving out yeah he wants to move to America oh wow what's he so I'm about to go through a midlife crisis we'll have to do some cook dinners don't we'll come around come around got to convince him to stay no he just wants to go and I want him to I he's so ready he's he's ready to go and experience the world and is he going to do like college over there or basketball yeah yeah that would be amazing but for me it means that every everything I've arranged my whole life on is is going to not be there yeah so i' I'm just going through this journey of what what does that mean for me it's almost like I've get my life back like I mean I felt I felt pregnant at 25 had him at 26 and my whole life has been based around him and so now it's like maybe my life's based around me now yeah my choices give back to yourself yeah yeah and he'll be back yeah I I it's not even about I'm just like I don't even know what what who I am without him in a really weird way we just have to lean into your swap te or your village a little bit more than your Village um look a lot of people naturally look up to you as you know I guess that Health figure but also the the business personality but also just your own personality you know like there's a lot of people that admire what you do um and youve built an amazing life and business and story behind that what what advice I guess would you give um to people that are looking to you know accomplish things whether it is in family or socially or through business what you connect to your passion be authentic and go for it there I mean the thing is I think for me what made me survive through all the challenges and you know it's not easy I might it might look easy on Instagram but it's not easy but my number one driver was my son I was able to connect to something that we needed to survive and um you're unstoppable when something so real is there so that that's been that but my advice is I remember when I left PWC I I I was really nervous about leaving something that was just I was so set up for that corporate world and my the partner I reported to at the time he said there's three different things it's like what's your skill set what's your passion what are you good at they're three different things if you can put them down in a column and write them down and see the Common Thread that's your icky guy it really is and you don't even realize but you've really got to understand what have you learned like what have you actually got your skills in and what's your experience and and then your passion and then all of that it's a really interesting exercise um but I think passion overrides everything because passion is the heartbeat that is the motivator to keep you get up in the morning Despite All Odds despite all obstacles especially in um the current landscape where there's a lot of unknowns it's it's a bit of a it's like I said to you before it's a bit of it's an Armageddon world I've called it an Armageddon world out there very hard to plan for um it changes really rapidly cuz it's digital at first so I just think people need to not Chase not chase the Optics but Chase it for themselves and then if you do what you love you will do it well you don't chase the money you chase you love because if you're happy every day and you're happy to walk into your office every day you will succeed whatever the definition of success is for you yeah and that you've also got to work out what does success mean for you um success for me is just making sure my son's happy and we're happy and you know can pay the bills yeah absolutely I think nothing but it's a feeling it's a feeling and you got to you got to want to thrive you got to feel valued you've got to feel inspired um that can come at any level in any job I just think it's just down to yourself so you've really got to know yourself yeah absolutely go on a journey of self go to Barley sit under a waterfall pray love I mean no but I mean honestly like at 44 I've gone through so many transitions of what drives me and I've maybe I've learned not too late but I've come into this space of going what makes me really happy and if I'm really [ __ ] happy I'll do really [ __ ] well y yeah that simple and look 44 is still very young and you've done so much already and you know I don't even know what else there is to accomplish in your life but I'm sure you will accomplish a lot more so you'll be fine yeah I'm excited to I'm excited to see the next 5 10 years I'll join you on the journey um before we finish up um um last question I like to is a thumper is it a big one I don't know if it's a thumper but it always gets different comments um what would you say to yourself you know uh from your if you're looking at your 18-year-old self right now what advice or what would you say to yourself do it all again I don't know like I I think um I think I was really I was really privileged to have parents that pushed me I'm an only child um I was really at the time um that really pushed my academics they pushed my music they pushed my sport um I think that's what you do with only children you kind of make them do all these things because you don't see them as you I think when you have multiple kids you see strengths and weaknesses at the time it was [ __ ] crazy um but they gave me a foundation that has come tenfold back around they taught me discipline they taught me structure they taught me commitment um and and I said yes to everything that's back to being curious um and if I said when I started off my career at pre price waterous Coopers I never dream I never ever ever thought I'd have my own business I never even thought I was capable of doing that but I said yes along the way to so many things cuz I wanted to learn I wanted to understand you got to want to understand you can't teach that I think that comes from you so um I I what I would say to my 18-year-old self is you're going to be okay and do it all again in no in no other fashion and how you've done it very good well pip um thank you for getting off a flight straight into this after your liberating exp I think you got the best bit of me though cuz I think when you're kind of a bit like off Cuffin uh coming off such an a a holiday that was so reflective yeah um I've given you just the vulnerable side of all of it so you've been fantastic and it's been amazing catch up and just share everything and now do we have a margarita well I I'll be breaking my detox if I do 100% let me know when it's done we've had we've had enough of those together but yes 100% in time in time firstly Pilates then Margarita yeah fine in that order exactly but no thank you pip I'm uh yeah really excited just to see what the next you know future 5 10 years looks like for you you're going to crush it and um congratulations and all your success you too thank you