TALKING ABOUT OBSCURE SUBJECTS THE AVERAGE NORMY VOTER WE CALL IT HERE WHO DOESN'T HAVE A LIFE AND ISN'T TUNED IN SAYING WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT? I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HE GETTING AT HERE. JOHN HEILEMANN YOU WERE IN THE SPIN ROOM LAST NIGHT AND IN PHILADELPHIA. WHAT WAS THE SENSE FROM THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND HARRIS CAMPAIGN AFTERWARD? >> WELL, GOOD MORNING. YOU KNOW, JOE TALKED TO ME BEFORE ABOUT HOW YOU WATCH SOMETHING AND OLD POLITICAL CONSULTANTS TRICK IS TO WATCH THE DEBATE WITH THE SOUND OFF AND YOU CAN GET A LOT ON THE VISUAL THERE AND THAT IS TRUE AND DEFINITELY THE CASE WATCHING THIS DEBATE. WHAT ELSE YOU CAN WATCH WITH THE SOUND OFF AND HOW IT WENT LAST NIGHT WAS THE ACTIVITY IN THE SPIN ROOM WHERE THE TRUMP FORCES WERE DEJECTED, DEFEATED, DEFLATED, DISPIRITED. I POSTED A PICTURE OF MATT GAETZ AND STEVEN MILLER COMING IN. THEY LOOKED SORT OF SAGGY ROAD LIKE A SHOT OF -- THIS IS WHAT DEFEAT LOOKS LIKE, FOLKS. THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP BEFORE THE DEBATE LIKE HE IS MOUHAMED ALI AND THE GREATEST DEBATERS AND THERE WILL BE SURPRISES JASON MILLER SAID. SHE WON'T KNOW WHAT HIT HER. THEY LOOKED LIKE THEY HAD THEIR DOGS AND CATS EATEN OVER THE COURSE OF THAT DEBATE. >> OH, MY GOD! >> IT'S ALSO -- IT'S ALSO THE CASE, I WILL TELL YOU THAT I CAN REPORT DEFINITIVELY THAT THERE IS ONE POINT OF AGREEMENT INSIDE THE TRUMP WAR ROOM AND THE HARRIS WAR ROOM WHERE BOTH OF THOSE WAR ROOMS WERE LOOKING AT THEIR DIAL GROUPS IN REAL-TIME LAST NIGHT. THE DIAL GROUPS THAT THE CAMPAIGNS ARE LOOKING AT LAST NIGHT SHOWED THE SAME THING, THAT IN REAL-TIME, THE UNDECIDED VOTERS THAT THEY WERE LOOKING AT, HARRIS CRUSHED TRUMP THROUGHOUT THE NIGHT. I'M NOT SUGGESTING THEY ACTUALLY POPPED ANY CHAMPAGNE CORKS LAST NIGHT BUT THEIR ATTITUDE WAS THAT OF METAPHOR CHAMPAGNE POP CORKERS. I HAVE SLAUGHTER HOUSE 45, OKAY? IT WAS AS GENE SAID, AS THOROUGH A DEMOLISHED DECIMATION OF A CANDIDATE I'VE EVER SEEN. WHETHER IT WILL EFFECT THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION, I DON'T KNOW. THE VOTE IS ELASTIC. WHETHER WE WILL SEE MOVEMENT IN THE POLLS? I DON'T KNOW. THE HARRIS CAMPAIGN HAD A NUMBER OF OBJECTIVES HERE AND ONE OF THEM WAS FURTHER INTRODUCTION OF HER TO A LOT OF VOTERS WHO STILL THINK THEY NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT HER. THEY DID SOME WORK ON THAT LAST NIGHT. THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THEY DID LAST NIGHT I HEARD FROM DONORS AND CAMPAIGN PEOPLE AND ELECTED DEMOCRATS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY THIS WAS A TEST OF PLAUS,IBLE. SHE PASSED WITH FLYING COLORS. THEY SAID THE FIRST DEBATE, PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE, YOU'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH YOU CAN COMMAND THE STAGE. AND WHAT PEOPLE REMEMBER IS COMMAND. WHO ARE PEOPLE GOING TO REMEMBER ABOUT WHO COMMANDED THIS FIRST DEBATE? KAMALA HARRIS COMMANDED THE FIRST DEBATE. THE LAST THING I'LL SAY, DONALD TRUMP, WHEN HE ATTACKED HER AS KEY A MOMENT AS THE DOGS AND CATS MOMENTS WAS, LOOK AT THE THING HE DID AT THE END OF THE SPEECH WHEN HE SAID, FINALLY, IN THE 86th MINUTE OF A 90-MINUTE DEBATE HE FINALLY DID THE THING HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WHICH WAS SAY, YOU ARE JOE BIDEN. YOU'RE TO HIS POLICIES. IT TOOK HIM 86 MINUTES TO SAY IT AND HE SAID IT IN A CLUMSY WAY SHE WAS ABLE TO KNOCK IT BACK WITH A HAND FLICK AND SAY, WELL, I'M, OBVIOUSLY, NOT JOE BIDEN, SIR. AND THAT WAS THAT. THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS HE WAS SUPPOSED TO DO HERE. SAY SHE HAS HIS RECORD. SHE HAS TO OWN HIS ECONOMIC POLICIES. IT TOOK HIM 86 MINUTES TO REMEMBER THAT AND THE WAY JOE BIDEN GOT TO FRAME THE FIRST DEBATE THE FIRST TIME AROUND IN ATLANTA. IN SO MANY WAYS THIS DEBATE MIRRORED THAT ONE AND, JOE, YOUR POINT ABOUT THE SPLIT SCREENS. BOY. THE SPLIT SCREEN WITH KAMALA HARRIS LAST NIGHT WITH IT DID FOR JOE BIDEN IN ATLANTA. >> WHO WOULD GUESS WE HAVE TWO OF THE MOST MOMENTOUS PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS WHEN, OF COURSE, USUALLY WE SIT HERE AND GO, THAT DEBATE DOESN'T MATTER. THE LAST TWO DEBATES HAVE MATTERED A GREAT DEAL. WE WILL SEE HOW IT DOES IMPACT VOTERS. INITIAL WORD FROM BOTH CAMPS THAT THE DIAL GROUPS WERE OVERWHELMLY SUPPORTIVE OF HARRIS. YESTERDAY I TALKED ABOUT STYLE. MOVES DEBATES COME DOWN TO STYLE. WE WILL KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BREAK. I THOUGHT IT WAS BRILLIANT IN THE MIDST OF THAT MADNESS KAMALA HARRIS KEPT GOING BACK TO ISSUES THAT MATTERED THE MOST TO AMERICANS AS FAR AS HER FRAMING. SHE TALKED ABOUT FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS. SHE KEPT COMING BACK TO IT. WE HAVE A TAX BREAK FOR FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS. WE ARE GOING TO HELP YOU. IF YOU'RE A SMALL BUSINESS OWNER. SEE, AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS SO IMPORTANT BECAUSE DEMOCRATS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN PAINTED AS TAX AND SPEND DEMOCRATS AND YOU CAN TALK ABOUT TAXING BILLIONAIRES AND EVERYTHING ELSE BUT THAT ALWAYS HAS TO BE COUNTERED WITH WHAT KAMALA HARRIS IS DOING MORE EFFECTIVELY THAN ANY DEMOCRAT I'VE SEEN RUNNING ON THE NATIONAL STAGE. SHE IS TALKING ABOUT WE NEED TAX CUTS FOR SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS. WE NEED TAX CUTS FOR ENTREPRENEURS AND JOB CREATORS AND THAT MESSAGE KEPT CUTTING THROUGH. THAT IS A MESSAGE THAT CUTS THROUGH IN WISCONSIN, IN MICHIGAN, IN PENNSYLVANIA, AS WELL AS IN GEORGIA AND NORTH CAROLINA, ARIZONA, NEVADA, WITH PEOPLE ON THE EDGE GOING, IS SHE A TAX AND SPEND DEMOCRAT? WAIT A MINUTE. I GOT A SMALL BUSINESS. I'LL TAKE THE 50,000 DOLLAR TAX BREAK BECAUSE I REALLY NEED IT BECAUSE I'M GROWING MY BUSINESS. I'M HIRING CUSTOMERS. I'M HIRING PEOPLE. I'M GETTING MORE CUSTOMERS. HERE YOU HAVE SOMEBODY THAT IS NOT SAYING, HEY, SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, I'M FROM THE GOVERNMENT, HERE ARE 12 MORE OSHA REGULATIONS. I'M FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, HERE ARE TEN MORE NEW TAXES. THIS IS SOMEBODY SAYING LET