College football's best coordinator combos, and more Ferentz failures

welcome to the college football Survivor show where playoff survival is always on the line here are your co-hosts dougl Maurice and shahan jaraja and we're back on the college football Survivor show interesting one I think today shahan we're going to rank the five best coordinator combos in major college football so you have your list of the top five combos I have my list of the top five combos it's weird there are things you have to take into account if you have a head coach who is a play caller on one side of the ball or very very involved on that side of the ball how do you evaluate the coordinator on that side of the ball and I will tell you the reason that I think this is fun there's a couple things that are happening Alabama just hired a new offensive coordinator and a new defensive coordinator we're going to talk about that and that factors into this Miami just fired its offensive coordinator and lost its defensive coordinator we're going to factor that into this there are things happening here and there are some coordinator moves that feel seismic and there are some coordinator moves that feel like not that big of a deal and this is not the same thing as the best teams because there is a specific example shahan that I double checked that to me is an indication of this a little bit and it was for instance it's just a for instance I have so many tabs can I count the tabs I have I probably have 50 tabs open at the top of my computer screen right now so I'm double- checking it did I get it right yes I here it is the 2019 Indiana hooers before the pandemic year when they were surprisingly very good they were eight and5 in 2019 Tom Allen's third season as the head coach shahan the offensive coordinator that year was kayin dor who's now the head coach at Washington and the defensive coordinator that year was Kane wack who's now the head coach at South Alabama and those were two darn good coordinators for an eight- win Indiana football team so the best coordinator combo is not the same thing as the best team and like that that was the example that I came up with that sort of helped bring this all together in my mind no doubt and uh which by the way if you're an Indiana football fan the fact that you might need that to have like any success ever is probably not the most encouraging thing that's ever happened but uh but no I mean that's that's like a really really great like one of the better pairings of the last five years and nobody would have paid attention to them in that kind of way so I I think that that's a great example uh look there are obviously going to be teams that are nationally competitive that are going to be featured on this list but I I totally agree I think that uh that combos were interesting because the other part of this too is that you know you really do especially in sort of the middle class of college football have these teams that are so unbalanced you know you have a team that's just all offense and no defense or all defense and no offense so this actually ended up being a harder exercise than I anticipated it to be because I I don't think that there are as many programs as we think even at the highest level who maybe have pluses at both coordinator spots and the hard thing is a lot of guys we don't know how good they are so I think what catches your eye in a something like this and a process like this is a a guy on the way up who's gotten some Hub and his side of the ball has had some success and maybe he's gone on some head coach interviews and you feel like this guy's going to be something or if you're maybe somebody who has been a head coach and being a head coach wasn't your thing but the reason you got to be a head coach is because you were so good as a coordinator and now maybe you're coming back down on the other side of your career and you're a former head coach who is iffy there but as a coordinator is like there's no doubt this guy knows this side of the ball when he's not in charge of the whole culture when he's not dealing with boosters where he's not motivating the whole team and he's just digging in scheming it up and coaching one side of the ball you know he's good so those kind of guys catch your ey sometimes if you're in between we just silent kayin deor and and Kane wack if we were doing this exercise in the offseason before the 2019 season we wouldn't have had them in the top five we didn't know how good they were going to be so we also understand there's some perception there's some realities about how your head coach fits into the mix in scheming it up so we're not claiming this to be the Beall end all of defensive coordinator offensive coordinator lists but I do think it allows us to look at some pretty darn good college football teams in a different way because I know the teams on my list are good teams but it's not like my top five are the top five teams in the country no question no question and honestly I'm kind of just excited to get into it because I am curious to see what direction you go because to me there was a clear number one and I'm curious if if you have the same one okay so let me start with my number one and my number one is Phil Parker as the Iowa defensive coordinator and if Iowa hired anybody that wasn't related to Kirk ference as the offensive coordinator what if you uh What If you hired Phil Parker as the point scorer and pointed out that they had the highest scoring defense in all of college football if you that's a great point and that's really going to matter if you had a scarecrow as Iowa's offensive coordinator if you had Kirk fence's neighbor but they weren't blood relatives as the offensive coordinator if you had I don't know that I feel like he's definitely the kind of person who lives on a compound with his family like fullon righteous gemstones like four houses right next to each other I think that that's absolutely how Kirk fence lives I was double checking some stuff I think offici like UCLA does not have an offensive coordinator oh interesting because Chip Kelly is like there's nobody listed if you had it blank if when you lent to the coaching staff of the Iowa Hawkeyes there was a blank instead of Brian fence there I would have had Iowa in the top five so this is going to introduce us into something that I have to talk about because Iowa is embarrassing itself even more that was than it was embarrassing itself this year and what has happened in the last day or two shahan with the Revelation that Iowa has set up paramet for Brian fence as the offensive coordinator that they must score 25 points per game this season and win a total of seven games or he's fired this is now his contract he got a $50,000 reduction in his salary from 900 Grand to 850 that's also called in the coaching parlament docking your allowance he got his allowance docked and and Iowa his contract will be terminated if they don't meet these thresholds the only two that were reported were that they have to average 25 points per game and that they must win seven games I have gotten my hands on a the document itself under reported he must take out the trash every Thursday he has to keep his room clean and no talking back no talking back or the allowance will be docked even more so this is in the contract that they are setting out the parameters of the way that Brian Fen can keep working for [Applause] Dad okay well for the record it's just the first two we actually have seen the contract but the the funny thing is Iowa because because defensive points count towards us they just have to average 25 points per game as a team uh I believe that they scored more than 25 points twice last year I think it was Nevada and it was uh ruter I I think those were the only two times they scored more than 25 points all season last year but actually I think it was a my my good friend Max Olsen over from the athletic who did the numbers and if you take out defensive and special team scores I was offense alone only average 14 points per game it is unbelievable what is happening over there and and by the way when we say 25 points per game that would be good enough for 85th nationally that that's still pretty and this is like hey man if you do this we'll pay you more than a million dollars for the 2023 season and it's I I've never seen anything like this so this is an embarrassment and we're going to talk for sever four minutes about more minutes about how this is an embarrassment it is an embarrassment that Kirk Fen and athletic director Gary Barta are allowed to do this that they have chosen to run their program this way by the football Outsiders metrics Iowa's defense last year just let me double check Iowa's defense was number one it was the best defense in the country the offense Iowa was one 11th that's in their f plus ratings first and oneth so we now set up a very interesting 20203 season because here's prediction number one if I were Phil Parker one of the very best defensive coordinators in the country who is continually dragged down by the ineptitude of the Iowa offense you know what I wouldn't have my defensive players do this year score four no scooping scores no interceptions knock the passes down that's fine and if you do pick something off take a knee whoops we call that the fence knee oh what happened there oh I just thought I could have run 65 yards for a pick six but I fell so Phil because why what does Phil Parker W I'm not trying to put words in Phil Parker's mouth I'm trying to stand up for one of the best defensive coordinators in college football who's been saddled with this yo on the other side of the ball whose Daddy won't fire him you want that guy gone so okay so do that Iowa Defenders no scores this year number two the most interesting teams in college football suddenly become the defenses that are facing Iowa this year go opposing defenses let's go boys rally the troops don't give up 25 you I have their the defensive rankings for the last year for the 12 teams on Iowa schedule Utah State 118 you got to bring It come on Utah State that's not good enough bounce back year come on come on Iowa state fifth good okay Matt Campbell and the boys keep that up Western Michigan 73rd Penn State 7eventh Manny Diaz how about a shut out how about a shut out Manny Diaz Michigan State 79th Mel Tucker he's a defensive head coach you can get that better Purdue 63rd Ryan Walters hey he's a defensive head coach who Purdue just hired let's bring it Purdue Wisconsin 19th that was with Jim Leonard it's a new staff there but Luke fickle come on guys you're a defensive head coach let's do this 19th Minnesota 9th that's a good defense Northwestern 67th they fired their they they actually fired their bad coordinator and brought in the guy from North Dakota State they should be better defensively Ruckers 49th Greg shano he's always got something for you Illinois third beable what was what does Brett B want to do more than get somebody fired and then Nebraska 75th Matt rule again motivated but here's the question will opposing teams as they are beating Iowa in this coming season allow garbage time touch Downs for Iowa on purpose because it is in the best interests of everybody on Iowa schedule for Brian FIS to remain employed as an unqualified underachieving assistant coach why would they want to get rid of the guy so it's like man I Penn State really was taking it to Iowa they were up 52 to nothing they gave up 21 points in the last four minutes what happened we know what happened this is the keep Brian employed everybody in the Big 10 wants him around so Phil Parker no defensive scores for the hot guys opposing teams make sure you beat Iowa but then maybe give up a couple scores at the end see here's here's the thing we need to flip this schedule because Nebraska Illinois Ruckers are the three teams that they're closing with those are going to be very competitive games that like all three of those teams really want to win and so we need to flip it with Penn State who I think will probably have a really good game against Iowa so they can just allow a bunch of late scores and Michigan State who either is going to be good or going to be terrible and either way I think would be more than happy to allow them to score points and those are two coaches who I think would just be like yeah screw it screw it let's keep uh let's keep Brian ference around I I think that that Illinois and Nebraska will be like uh we gotta win we we gotta win this game but I I think that what is absolutely going to happen is I was gonna score like 56 points on Utah State and then average like 17 in every other game and hope that just carries them to the finish line that seems inevitable so I'm making an announcement now that Iowa Nebraska games on a Friday always right it's on a Friday yes so I can get back I can get back for Ohio State at Michigan on Saturday if Brian fence needs like 22 points or 28 points or something we're gonna have some to to hit the mark against Nebraska I'm going I'm going and I might have up signs I might dress up like a corn husker and put on overalls and hold up signs to to cheer on the black shirts because I don't have anything against Iowa football I have something against blatant nepotism at the expense of an entire football fan base end team so I am rooting I officially would like to announce I am rooting against Brian frence and the Iowa offense this year I apologize in advance to Kade mcamera the new quarterback who's transferring from Michigan and seems like a fine fella and he like called out the doubters about Iowa's offense I'm a doubter Kade I'm a doubter I'm not doubting you I'm doubting Brian frence and his daddy so this is an embarrassment the other thing about this is this is why do we need Gary Barta because Gary Barta is actually supposed to be Brian ference's boss because that's the loophole around the nepotism stuff because Iowa actually has a rule about this stuff if you are cowardly enough that the only way you are willing to fire somebody is by a metric why don't we let an algorithm be the athletic director at Iowa I am the Iowa Athletic Director the softball team did not average 4.6 runs per game so the coach is fired like we're just gonna do math that's how we evaluate this is how we make Personnel decisions Gary barter we do it by an algorithm the track and field team the 1600 meters was not fast enough the coach is fired that's how we do it way to be a boss you're an embarrassment Gary B come on the show you're an embarrassment Kirk fence you're an embarrassment Brian fence you're unqualified for the job you've never been good enough and that Iowa is doing this to its fans it's not about anybody else it's about one group of people the loyal dedicated DieHard fans of Iowa football who have to put up with this Ridiculousness from a cowardly athletic director and a head coach who runs a college football program like a family picnic nobody would hire this guy Brian frence couldn't get he get hired by two people his dad and his dad's best friend Bill bich he should be the towboy for the Patriots this year this is a joke and they have taken a terrible situation and made it worse and again as an unbiased journalist who is here to cover college football The Joy brings to people I will be rooting my butt off for every defense that faces Iowa this year because it's better for everybody else in the Big 10 for Brian ference to keep his job it's not better for the Iowa fans so I am I hope they score 24 what if are they going to round up that's the next controversy that's 24.73 points per game 24 point it's 24. 51 can you imagine they're losing to Nebraska 31-6 and they're at the goal line in the final 30 seconds trying to score so they can hit the 25o threshold we what if we ever had a situation like this in sports 25 points a game because you're too cowardly to make an actual decision what a joke I pray that they're down by 17 points with a with less than a minute left against Nebraska and they have to score and in order to to reach 25 points per game they have to go for two and it comes down to one play for them to average 25 points per game and uh and we're watching like we're watching Brian fence pull out his best play which is like halfback dive or something and and oh man it's going to be drama the the funny thing again about this is this would be good enough for 85th in the country if he averaged uh 25 points per game but like Iowa doesn't even do that that often they they don't even average 25 a game all that often and part of it is Pace like you know the one thing that I will say is that part of the reason that they are so blanded conservative on offense is also because like Kirk fence is protecting the defense Pace but like come on did did you not watch Joe burrow light everybody on fire like we are past this we're past this we're not doing this anymore and also by the way this is a much longer term thought than this but you know the gravy train of being in the Big 10 West when nobody else can do much of anything is about to be over that's about to be over whenever USC and UCLA come and uh you know credit to Kirk Fen who's one of the great coaches of the modern era but geez this this isn't going to cut it anymore and when you see also the way that other teams in the Big 10 West are adjusting to the challenge most notably uh Luke fickle bringing in who he brought in on the offensive side of the ball uh also you look at who Purdue brought in on the offensive side of the ball also you look at who Illinois has brought in on the offensive side of the ball and what they did last year I mean this is this is not going to cut it for very long and uh I I'm very curious to see how gets handled this is the other thing that's so insulting about this whole idea because you make a very good point teams have styles and the idea that now Iowa is going to assign success to a point total you can very much by the idea that Kirk faren says listen we are a defense first team we rely on special teams the offense is the third most important part of our team we have a way to win and all that you're asking for you're asking for competence within the structure of the team nobody should be asking for for hard and fast stats and they should throw those stats in our face and say if you are judging Iowa success by stats that's not the point we're a we're a complimentary football where the offense is charged with not putting the defense in a bad spot being efficient working the clock and then being successful in the Red Zone that's not what they're talking about they are putting a number on this that's the kind of thing that podcast people do because they are such cowards and they are abdicating their responsibility as stewards of this psychotic department and of this program they are passing it off to math and what if they play a game in a snowstorm what if they play another game in a hurricane like Ohio State played at Northwestern and the wind was so bad it shut everything down what if they have a game where their top three quarterbacks conk their heads together on the sideline are all out with concussion protocol and they're like the 49ers were in that playoff game they're running Wildcat and they're just trying to make sure they they're trying to win 1716 there are ways to be successful there are ways to be a competent offensive coordinator that are not tied to hard and fast Baseline stats they didn't even do fancy stats they did points per game because they know you know why because they know maybe the punt guys going to what if are you going to tell the punt returner hey no fair catches this year we want to we want to try to steal two punt scores for Brian no fair catches right hey Phil hey Phil I know you kind of want to maybe play play soft on third and 13 here and let them punt it to us but if they punt it to us like there's no way we're going to score can you Blitz and maybe see if a guy can tip a pass and get an interception are you gonna play differently because there this is why people are in charge because stats don't tell the whole story because adults who aren't blood related to their employees have way of evaluating people in a full comprehensive way that goes beyond stats so Gary B G here that you want to Triple down let's triple down Gary and Kirk if you have such a great idea all three jobs on the line 25 points per game you hit it all three are safe you miss it all three are gone don't put it on Brian Brian's bad tough Brian's F he bad he tries hard Bri Brian doesn't know any better it's it's the old uh it's the old analogy from the office where where Pam goes uh look whenever a kid a 12-year-old crashes a car into a tree you don't say this is the 12-year-old's fault you put the you look at the 40-year-old woman who put the 12-year-old in the front seat and said hey drive and you know what Gary Barta and Kirk ference you are the one who is putting the child in the front seat and telling him to drive when he's clearly not capable of doing it by the way the the one reason that I think that they went with this 25 points per game thing is that Kirk's company line has been when we score 24 points in a game we are 55 and three over the past I think eight seasons um you know they've lost a lot more than three games over the past eight seasons so uh you know good luck uh certainly look the the 2022 season was bad for a lot of reasons that were not just about their offensive coordinator being bad like their their quarterback straight up had the yip I don't know there was a lot of things going on they had injuries on the offensive line but like you said that's why you take a a guy in context and even getting to the point of saying okay here's a goal is is ultimately cowardly because it means that you're not actually evaluating what's going on on the field and and one of the things whenever you get into major college football that kind of shocks you after a while is realizing that sometimes you go into these rooms and some of these people have just as dumb ideas as we do the ultimate it's when you grow up as a person is when you realize that you don't have to be smarter than everybody is that everybody else is just as dumb as you are by the way Brian fence became the quarterback's coach last year so that terrible quarterback play also on him yes yes they fell from like 70th to 123rd in in passing offense so congratulations Brian if this podcast goes more than an hour and five minutes you're fired so I I could evaluate you on your contributions to the podcast on how smart and interesting you were but instead I'm just gonna go by numbers because that feels easier so hey he hey we better get a move on then an hour four minutes and 30 seconds people are goingon to be hanging on oh my gosh what's gonna happen is Shan gonna get fired so uncle Gary and Kirk are just gonna sit on the porch and tell Brian good luck kid good luck kid you're 39 we got to have a Tracker every week that tracks exactly where Iowa is in points per game and you know what's going to happen somebody's going to do that and bring it to the game every single week they're going to have a sign with like a dial like where is he are they above 25 are they below 25 we have to commit to that bit now I am not so sure I would not I I think I would I don't have to double negative this I think I would commit to a 25 minute podcast every week during the season in which we analyze if they did get to 25 in the previous week and do we think they will get to 25 the next week an offshoot of the college football Survivor show you know what it's called the Brian Fen Survivor show will he survive I mean what's more Survivor than this and would that show be immensely more popular than this yes it would be I know everybody in Iowa would listen by the way 100% that is actually happening the 25 minute and if we go over 25 minutes we're fired the 25 minute Brian Fen surv suror show brought to you by your friends at the college football Survivor show so look forward to that and also if you see Gary Barta or Kirk ference tell them that Doug says they're cowards and they're abdicating their job responsibility and we should triple down on this what's good for br is good for Daddy Kirk and Uncle Gary so I I guess our our you know maybe Pie in the Sky goal of getting all of the college football playoff chairman on the show probably not going to happen now uh uh no I'd still do that no I mean I talk about playoff Gary Gary what was it like that year when you had to go on ESPN and explain why cin should be second instead of fourth Gary what were what were negotiations like when you were negotiating the exact point total that your Offensive Coordinator would have to score to keep his jobs like was that something where he like negotiated or did you bring that to him how does this work was he like no I only need to score 19 in a game I was like no 27 how how does that work I've never been part of a negotiation like that was hoe Mandel there do they have super models with briefcases and Brian was like uh I'll take briefcase number six and he was hoping it would have like 11 points per game in it and they were like 25 and he was like no 25 is too many how did they how did they decide that they were going to have a pay decrease but still to an amount that's more than most group of five coaches how how did they decide on the number that they they was going to be down $50,000 exactly like how did how did he decide that and how much was Brian's mom involved in this because it really is a family business and mom has her say too so uh so this is a joke I don't want to call Iowa football a joke because Iowa football's not a joke because you know what's not a joke Jack Campbell's not a joke no no not at all like Lucas vaness isn't a joke like Riley Moss isn't a joke Phil Parker's not a joke who was the well the receiver who left he knew it was a joke so he went to Purdue like like these gu these players aren't jokes these these players aren't jokes these players are working their butts off and they have an incompetent offensive coordinator who's employed because his dad puts family ahead of program and I think neither of them should be employed so we will monitor this we will criticize them for this we will root against them I'm rooting against Brian fence and I'm rooting against Kirk fence and I'm rooting against Gary Bara because they are allowing this to happen Brian ference isn't good enough to have this job and they're all invited on you can all come on the show you know who I am Kirk you're invited you're invited on the show so come on and also we would love to have Brian on the on the offshoot because that's always one of those things on Saturday Night Live like Tina Fay does Sarah Palin then Sarah Palin comes in right does it so to have Brian ference on the Brian fren Survivor show would be great so I can't wait this is this is our career rocket ship you know these guys did this playoff show like it was fine but the Brian fret Survivor show 25 minutes of gold every week let's rank other offensive coordinators and defensive coordinators we'll do it next after this the college football Survivor show where playoff survival is always on the line all right shahan I had to get that off my chest I don't apologize I don't apologize I'd say it again we did go over 25 minutes we was like 27 so I'm fired so are Tommy re and Kevin Steel on your list these are the new hires made by Nick Sab Alabama and it's so interesting because neither fits the profile now listen the the reputation of Nick sain of kind of bringing in the Recycled coordinator that really only is on the offensive side of the ball and we talked about that in a previous podcast because he had Kirby Smart for so long Pete Golding was there for a long time but this is super interesting because Tommy ree is not that he is an upand cominging College offensive coordinator that he poached from Notre Dame where Tommy ree played and then coached and then you poached that guy well you poach him with money and now the defensive coordinator is Kevin steel who you got I think on our name that Sabin coordinator because he was Nick sabin's first defensive coordinator for one year when Nick Sabin started at Alabama so it is a super back around recycled defensive coordinator but a guy who's always been in the college ranks and then Tommy Reed as an upand cominging offensive coordinator it's opposite ends of the spectrum it's exactly what we talked about right when you're looking for these coordinator combos sometimes you look for a veteran guy has been around maybe on the backside a little bit but a good veteran coach and then you look for a guy on the rise Bama got one of each what do you think of the highers first of all and then we can figure out if they should be in our top five combo yeah well full transparency uh there are like two or three uh that I'm that I'm confidently putting on the list and other than that I have like seven listed and I'm going to kind of go off of Vibes because I I really feel like after you get past the top group it kind of is vibes but for me I do not lean towards putting them in my top five I I like The Hires that were made I think that you know Tommy ree is interesting because he did a pretty good job uh under Brian Kelly last year was a little bit of a mess but it was partially because they had quarterback injuries they had to switch from Tyler Buckner to Drew Pine their offensive line took some time to come together they didn't necessarily have the weapons that they wanted outside this was very clearly a program in transition but what impressed me the most was how much they improved week to week I I think that they started to find their identity they started to understand their personnel a little bit better uh the thing that's interesting about Tommy ree is that he does not fit within a schematic framework I guess you'd say he he's not somebody who's an air raid coach or a spread coach or a pro style coach I think that you saw aspects of different types of games uh within his whole deal and and by the way I mean he has an interesting background because before he came to Notre Dame as quarterback's coach in 2017 he spent a year as a grad assistant at Northwestern and then a year as an offensive assistant with the San Diego Chargers so well at the time were the San Diego Chargers and so you know he kind of has this mixed background in some ways and I think that that comes out in a nice way so I like the upside of this hire I think that he's going to do probably a better job of raising the floor of this offense than I think Bill O'Brien did I I'm curious about what his fully realized version of an Alabama offense is that's probably my biggest question about it defensively look I I don't think that Nick Sabin needed to reinvent the wheel I think it's fine for him to hire a relative retread Kevin steel probably wouldn't have been my first choice but it's not like he wasn't very successful during his time at Auburn right which was 2016 to 2020 he's been in the SEC very recently uh I think it is not an inspired hire I don't think it needed to be an inspired hire and by the way the last guy that Nick Sabin went with was a pretty inspired hire in former UTSA defensive coordinator Pete Golding who obviously had his moments and then also had his flaws so I I think that defensively he really wanted to limit the variants and offensively I think he wanted to increase the possibilities and I think that he did that but for me I don't have them right now in my list of the top five I just think that Tommy Reese is still a little bit too much of an unknown in terms of what he's going to be on this team and again I I view Kevin steel as a higher although uh somewhat uninspiring and I will mention that uh that obviously I heard many many many many many horror stories about Kevin steel being a head coach because I went to Baylor University so I think it's well said for you on the defensive side of the ball that it's not inspired but maybe it didn't need to be so like safe familiar maybe isn't a bad way to go there this Tommy reing is interesting because again the the constant churn on the offensive side of the ball I think Tommy ree stayed until he's a head coach now and unlike Steve sarkeesian who left to be the head coach at Texas but he had been a head coach twice before and was back in that recycle mode I also don't know that one or two good years as the Alabama offensive coordinator is gonna have Tommy Reese up for a major power five job and then now he's goingon to be in a spot of well I'm not gonna jump for the Louisiana job I'm not going to jump for you know the Troy job right I'm going to wait I'm going to wait on I might be on the Kirby Smart Plan here I'm going to wait for a great job if you're successful and now all of a sudden you're looking at a world where what if Tommy Reese is Nick sabin's offensive coordinator until Nick Sabin retires like I wonder like as Sabin was trying because I think you just could have found another guy whose shelf life was probably two or three years and it's worked like there's no no problem with how Sabin has done this he's found a very effective way to do this and this is a change so maybe the right guy just wasn't out there the perfect fit that way just wasn't out there so I get that but this really is a significant change and and like Tommy Reese becomes a very critical person sort of in the career of Nick Savin like maybe he'll be a blip maybe it won't work out in a year from now he'll be in Josh gtis Land out the door I doubt that but you know you don't want to be in Josh gtis Land no like this is opposite side of the ball sab's a defensive Guy this is opposite this is really this is a really important hire so I'll be curious how that works out I ended up having I went through everybody in the power five everybody that I thought had a chance to matter and then I we ran through and I made a list of 11 Combos and picked my five I did have Reese and steel for Alabama on that list of 11 I don't have them in my top five so I think it has a chance to work though I think it has a chance to work and and maybe have has a chance to work more cohesively than it has on the offensive side of the ball for a while so this is a really important hire for Nick Sabin and I think he made a good choice all right let's go to number one on our list I have Georgia yes 100% And this is Georgia with an asterisk because Todd Mon's interviewing Todd monan is out interviewing for NFL jobs I think he talked with tampen I think he talked with Baltimore that's been reported he's the highest paid coordinator in college football over $2 million a year super impressed with what he dials up with that Georgia offense I think he maximized everybody in that offense he made ston Bennett look really good knew exactly how to use him and then on the defensive side of the ball Dan Landing left after last season to go with the head coach at Oregon this year they get well mus champ in there and this is again monin and muschamp are both veteran guys and then muschamp's the co-coordinator with Glenn Schuman schuman's kind of an on the way up guy muschamp is a guy who in the end probably isn't a great head coach but the reason everybody wanted him as a head coach is because he was such a good defensive coordinator so then you land a guy like that and I don't know what his aspirations are he's still not a very old guy but I also think maybe this is the right place for him so as long as Todd monin doesn't take a job I think Kirby Smart has the best coordinator combo in college football no question about it I I like that they have sort of the old and new eyes on the defense too uh Glen Schuman is a really young guy he's like 31 32 he was cons he was somebody who was rumored to be a a top Target by Alabama and I mean he must have been happy where he is uh and he's somebody who I think probably could have head coaching opportunities if he wanted them right now but I think that he's smart to take his time and wait and really I mean this is you get three guys obviously with this group as opposed to two but this is sort of an ideal coordinator pairing right like this is how you want it to work uh and and yeah Georgia to me is an obvious number one not only are both guys uh pluses I think that both guys are Elite level coordinators as well and there's a reason that this is a this is the team that's won back-to-back national championships I will ask you to go back to the Alabama thing for one second I am curious so let's say that Todd monin also for for these purposes takes an NFL job I was surprised that you know Tommy ree doesn't sound all that exciting uh even though I think that it might work it feels like there weren't many obvious Superstar assistance out for jobs this year do you know what I mean like it felt like it was a there like Garrett Riley was the one maybe we'll get to him later uh Jim nolles last year right we had that at defensive coordinator where he was like the Superstar topof the market higher I don't really know who those guys were on either side of the ball heading into this cycle I think it's interesting that Jim Leonard from Wisconsin is out there right now as a defensive coordinator he he must be looking for NFL he must be looking for NFL or taking a year off and he thought he was maybe going to be the head coach at Wisconsin so I think that's interesting um I think Paul Christ the fired Wisconsin head coach as an offensive coordinator possibly as interesting the guy this guy has a job but I just wonder about him is Joe Brady who's the quarterback's coach in Buffalo he's not the offensive coordinator and is not the play caller there but he was the offensive coordinator for the LSU Tigers in 2019 I think a lot of people thought he was on a rocket ship and it turns out he wasn't because he went to Carolina with Matt rule he got fired before Matt rule even did so like that guy's interesting to me so in terms of that that Bama got this taken care of while Mon's still at Georgia and now if by the time you hear this podcast or a week from now Todd monin takes an NFL job it feels like he wants an NFL job yeah just does because you interview doesn't mean that you're desperate to leave but this guy's been at both places I just and and I think maybe like how could you get better at Georgia and he just went through the whole STS and Bennett rigma role which worked out great but was kind of a kind of a thing to manage and I just saw somebody somebody was making like their 10 predictions for the college football season I think one of them was like Georgia plays three quarterbacks but still wins the SEC or something and I was like oh my God like what like that could absolutely happen but what a mess so this might be the exact right time for Todd monin to leave how's it gonna get better and if he leaves it's I think it's the number one story remaining in the offseason of college football because I I think it is a somewhat fundamental shift for this mini Dynasty and the best program in the country because he's the coordinator on the opposite side of the head coach and I think he's that good and then when you start lining up the names to your point I don't maybe there's somebody obvious we're missing maybe there's somebody that Georgia would promote from within maybe we're missing the obvious guy but it felt like Sabin had a little bit of a tough time zeroing in on the offensive coordinator and now Kirby Smart might have to do the same thing I'd be fascinated to see where they wind up no doubt no it's going to be a weird situation but for now Georgia specifically does not have to worry about it and they are number one okay I'll give you my number two then since we have the same number one maybe we have the same number two Michigan I struggled with where to put Michigan um I ultimately have them at five I but it's not because I don't think they're good it's just it's really hard for me to determine what's just kind of their system you know especially on defense they they kind of just like do the I don't know what's what to credit to an individual coach do you know what I mean I agree so this is Chiron Moore on the offensive side of the ball and Jesse mentor on the defensive side of the ball It's Complicated by the fact that Moore and Matt Weiss were co-offensive coordinators a year ago Moore's offensive line Weiss's quarterbacks and Weiss got fired and there are reports of something with the computer and I don't know and it's a really weird situation he was not fired because of lack of football success so the hard thing about this is the year before with Josh gtis and Mike McDonald the first time Michigan made the playoff they were great and I thought their assistant coaches really mattered because at that point they had made fundamental transitions the big one was them firing Don Brown on the defensive side of the ball which who was like had been with Jim Harbaugh from the jump at Michigan and it wasn't cutting anymore they changed the coach they changed the style Mike McDonald came in and took over basically John Harbaugh said hey take this guy Jim did Mike McDonald was awesome he went back to Baltimore and then John Harbaugh said take this guy because Jesse Min had been in Baltimore but had gone to Vanderbilt for a year and so he kind of came in and just kept doing what Mike McDonald did and they were just as good without Aiden Hutchinson and David ajabo so I am giving credit to Jesse M on the defensive side of the ball and then offensively I just thought Chiron Moore like did a great job and that it turned out that Jos gtis at Miami wasn't great so it maybe leads you to the idea that it is a system at Michigan however that same system Harbaugh was there and they'd never been this good so Michigan got better when Harbaugh completely revamped the staff two years ago and since then they've made two straight playoffs after they revamped the staff and hired like seven new assistants so I all along the way have given a lot of credit to Harbaugh for being willing to do that and then I've given a lot of credit to that staff I often don't give credit to the staff I think it's a head coach and player business and everybody else is a middle manager Michigan changed the assistance and Bam that was the turnaround so I am comfortable ranking them this High because there's clearly a system in place but they finally found the right people to execute it and I do think Chiron Moore and Jesse Minter are good so I'm comfortable having them at two yeah I I think that they absolutely deserve to be ranked highly again you know at least for last season these were both above average coaching units the play calling was above average they were pluses for the team the the coaching I would argue is the reason that they won the Big 10 and had a chance to make the college football playoff again and you know for me you know it's I think that my I don't want to call them questions because it's not questions I think that I'm it's easier for me to credit Chiron Moore for what he's done over the past couple of years than it is Jesse Minter because Jesse Minter obviously was a first year assistant last year but you know the results are the results and the results were there so uh I I had them number five on my list but I kind of I I would say that I have like three three people fighting for two spots here so they're in that five six somewhere uh Amorphis range okay so who's your number two combo then so I'm gonna go a little offboard and I'm gonna go with Andy lwig and Morgan scall at Utah not that far off the board they're third for me okay okay they I think have done a tremendous job Morgan scall is known I think a little bit more than Andy lwig but lwig did a really great job over the past two years of taking this offense to a really versatile Place uh you know I I don't want to I don't want to diminish players and crediting coaches I I think that Cameron Rising is fine I think he's an okay quarterback and I think that the way that this offense has been called has been critical to how efficient it has been throughout Pack 12 Play I I don't think think that they have gamebreaking talent but they've managed to move the ball on basically everybody they've developed tight ends at an incredible level and put them in position to succeed once uh once Brent keithy went out they were like all right Dalton canade and Thomas Yasmin this Canadian who's hardly ever played football comes in like they just do such a good job of of putting players in good positions and defensively they're a known commodity they recruit exceptionally well they they're a factory of linebackers they're just so good on both sides of the ball and I don't think think it's any coincidence that they continually play Above their heads because these two guys are there Morgan scall we have to mention had his salary cut in half a year ago because it was found that he used a racial slur in a text message in 2013 he's now had that salary reinstated and so there is a there is something in his past that needs to be noted but he is seems like he is likely the at and at at the time he was officially the head coach in waiting at Utah at that time and so they cut his salary and took took away the head coach in Waiting title now he's got his salary back he is no longer the head coach in Waiting though but he still might be the head coach in waiting and he is a he is a ute through and through that is a a guy whose name it feels like every time there's an opening at a big-time program for defensive coordinator his name gets thrown out and then it's like he's not leaving like this is his place he loves it here this is where he was made to coach Kyle Whittingham can't coach forever and Morgan scall very likely is the next head coach at Utah but the result is that you get a guy who probably could have a higher profile job I like I say better job because Utah is awesome I picked Utah to make the playoff this year I mean Utah is like one of the 10 best programs in college football right now it's a great job it's a great program great place to work but Andy lwig also again like go Google Andy lwig he's on every Notre Dame list right everybody is doing a list of oh who might replace Tommy Reese this is a guy to your point again you respect people it's why I respect Todd monin they don't just have great receivers Chuck it up and go he found a way to make the most of the players he had Andy lwig what do you have you have tight ends you have a quarterback who's good at this you run the ball this way boom it works so yeah not off the radar right on the radar so our top three we of our top five we have three of the same top five we know Georgia Michigan and Utah all in the top five for both of us I just realized I don't officially have a number five I have a number four and then also Vibes so when we come back Vibes we'll figure out the bottom of our list after this the college football Survivor show where playoff survival is always on the line all right duck and shahan are back exciting news for everybody we are getting rid of our subscription episode which means not that it's going away it means that we're gonna have two free episodes a week starting next week so we always have had this free show and then we've had a bonus episode for Apple podcast subscribers who paid 299 a month and got that extra show every week now y all get it congratulations everybody more of us for more content so you don't have to do anything wherever you find this if you're listening right now it's the same place it'll just be twice instead of one time so that'll start next week we will welcome everybody we'll welcome all the loyal listeners who are like e three bucks a month seems a little steep for these guys welcome welcome to Free also shout out to y'all who who kept dming me that I'd love to I'd love to be able to pay for your extra content but I don't have an iPhone that's a non-factor now okay it wasn't my fault I couldn't do anything about it it actually was Shan's fault but I'll take no it wasn't Shan's uh it's just it's a thing we tried and we along we had a lot of discussions about shouldn't there be another way besides just the Apple thing but we never got there so now it's free so now it's not an issue anymore so starting next week twice a week I don't know if the days might ad just this show typically comes out on Wednesday maybe we'll go to like a Tuesday Thursday we're not exactly sure we'll figure that out but it's going to be two two a week just subscribe then you won't miss anything okay my number four is Kentucky okay okay so Kentucky has hired back Liam kohen who they had and then who left to be the off and was great was so good he went to be the offensive coordinator of Los Angeles Rams I don't know if people know but the Rams had a bad year this year so now he's back they lured him back to Kentucky as the offensive coordinator they're paying him way I think he's making 1.7 they are paying for this dude and then their defensive coordinator is Brad white who's done a really good job there their defense has been really pretty highly ranked at times a couple when Brian Kelly got hired at LSU he flew to Louisiana and interviewed at LSU there I think there are people that have come after him and so far he has decided to stay at Kentucky so I think these are both guys on the way up that Liam Co Liam Cohen right you have an NFL diance maybe it's not perfect but it's like Kentucky he says is like the place he wants to be we'll see how long that lasts if he's really good he'll get a head coach offer and Brad white I think you know you read people who cover Kentucky you know they think Brad White's ready for that the BR Brad white would be qualified for a jump with how well the Kentucky defense has played in recent years so Mark stops has done a great job at Kentucky what Kentucky Kentucky's a consistent winner in football which they that is not a Birthright for Kentucky football to be good in the SEC so you cannot underestimate what Mark stops has done but having two guys like this and to get Cohen back there's some Sizzle to it because you're paying him big money and he's coming from the Rams and that's cool but there's substance to it because he got the NFL opportunity because of how good the Kentucky offense had been under him so maybe it's a little high for this but I feel like these are two coordinators that make a difference and so I have Kentucky fourth I honestly didn't particularly consider this uh because this was also one where it's it's interesting to try to manage EX L defensively what's Mark stops what's Brad white you know that's something that we talked about before the show is you know there are situations like uh you know the obvious one is Ryan Day right where he calls plays and how do you balance this versus something else now I do think that Brad white calls plays but certainly Mark Stoops is involved in that process this is probably a pairing I should have considered a little more I think Liam Cohen is really good when you when you look at all this stuff about will Levis being a draft prospect a lot of that has to do with what they were able to do uh with him under Li Cohen and uh and defensively for people who don't know Brad white comes from sort of the Matt house school of defense and Matt house has done a tremendous job at LSU they kind of got the master instead of the student whenever they did make that defensive coordinator higher and uh no I I think it's a great combination we we kind of have to wait and see it play out this year I think that's probably the one thing holding it back on my list a little bit but I say that and my number four is uh two coaches who have very much never played together or never coached together or other but first I have to get to my number three okay so we have your number one your number two and your number five so far so who was your number three my number three and again this one is like if you ask me in five minutes I might have a different idea but my number three is Penn State Mike Urich and Manny Diaz and also also with it Anthony po Dexter on the defensive side of the ball as well I I think that this program has done as good a job as anyone on the defensive side of the ball for several years and point Dexter has been there through this whole process Manny Diaz comes in as a very well respected defensive coordinator to replace Brent pry who leaves to become the the head coach at Virginia Tech and I think Mike uch did a really solid job this year of getting the most out of Shan Clifford there were some growing pains in his first season in 2021 I think in 2022 uh he did a great job we're going to kind of have to wait and see whether this grouping can move up potentially although they are at three on my list maybe they're they're higher than they maybe should be right now but uh but I think that a lot of questions are going to come out about uh him with Drew Aller the Superstar uh Rising I guess red shirt freshman I guess he'll be next year or sophomore I don't know if it really matters but uh but the new starting quarterback Drew Aller um but you know Mike yurich has a track record of success at Oklahoma State he was not the main problem at Texas whenever that staff was let go and I think Penn State has been a really good fit for him so I felt like these were two coordinators who are both pluses so I have at number three that's an interesting ranking I to me a little bit the jury is still out on Mike uch Joe Morehead was so impactful as the offensive coordinator at Penn State and there's a world like it just didn't work out for Joe Morehead at Mississippi State as the head coach it wasn't a cultural fit he went to Oregon and he helped beat Ohio State as the offensive coordinator at Oregon and now he's a head coach in the Mac right and I think if you ask Joe Morhead if you want to go back in time and just stay at Penn State and be like the Todd monin of Penn State and make $2 million a year he might go back and say let's stay there and so I feel like they are still missing him but this is a big year for this so so I like the idea like Manny Diaz again who who probably got the short end of the stick at Miami that they just wanted Mario Chris Ball and they kind of had to scoot Manny Diaz out the side door to make that happen so Manny Diaz who I think you know will be a head coach again comes back as a defensive coordinator who again the guy we're talking about he was so good as a defensive coordinator he became a head coach and now he's back to being a defensive coordinator I think that's a good hire I think that's real the uch thing they were not on my list of 11 because I still feel like I have a question mark right about Mike yich but I do agree with you for a team that was a top 10 team whose only two losses were the playoff teams and a quarterback in Shan Clifford who was limited he can do what he can do but he cannot do much more but they Fin and and like the year before their offense was bad they had no run they had no offensive line and no running game so they found a left tackle this year they found a running game this year with some young guys they had Parker Washington they had Michael Tinsley they had some real receivers and then they found a way for sea Clifford to make that work and manage the game and emphasize what he does well and why how do you do that well because the guy calling the play figures out how to do it so I actually think that's a really good one that is that is worth talking about so I I like Mike uch and Manny Diaz being here and if this pops if this pops if the Drew Aller thing is a thing like Mike uch is going to get some head coach looks because the next two years of Penn State football might be as important as any two years of Penn State football since kajana Carter and Carrie Collins were there like this is what they have been waiting for and Mikey Urich is the guy who has to make it great there's potential there they've got the line they've got the running backs they always run receivers through there and they've got the quarterback they've never had and Mike uch has to maximize that so I like thinking about Penn State on a list like this Shan and by the way if this doesn't work out I'll just add this to the list of I have no idea what the hell is going on at at Penn State ever and I don't know if they're good or B or anything I I they're the most like conf not even confusing confusing implies that I have ideas about them that are like not cachent I just don't know what's happening over there just I look up it's like oh I guess went 11 and two oh I guess I guess they got destroyed by everybody and went seven and six I have no idea what's happening over there like there is no the the human brain is built to take in narrative and Penn State is the most narrativ less program under James Franklin that I've ever seen there's just no through line with anything that's going on but I think that that might be changing right now because I think they finally do have the class that's going to do something consistent and build something lasting so we'll see 2023 is a big year for them okay that's a good pick number five for me I am going to go with Wisconsin and I am GNA go with Phil Longo as the higher that Luke fickle made got him from North Carolina because of their personal relationship to run the kind of offense that Luke fickle wants to change what Wisconson does offensively wants to open it up wants to throw the ball more they got multiple transfer quarterbacks in there and the chance for for Phil longle to merge the best of what Wisconsin has been and and the new version of Wisconsin this is a guy that Luke fickle went out and got I think that's a big hire on the offensive side of the ball then defensively Mike Trestle who was the nephew of Jim Trestle has been with Luke fickle a long time Mike Trestle you know we started off talking about nepotism in this sport you know he started off with Mark Antonio who was Jim Trestle right-hand man and then Mike Trestle worked for Mark Antonio Forever at Michigan state did Jim Trestle credit he never hired his nephew so Mike Trestle never worked as a full-time assistant for Jim Trestle but then he wound up at Cincinnati with Luke fickle and Marcus Freeman was Luke fickle right-hand man and then when he went to Notre name like Mike Trestle is the guy now so Mike Trestle is gonna be the defensive coordinator Luke fickles a defensive head coach I think it's a pretty good pairing and this is mostly about Phil Longo but listen Mike Trestle has proven that he's been around the Big 10 he knows what's up we can get into the people like the other people we that didn't make our top five and there's one in particular I want to talk about I don't have a strong conviction about this but they're certainly in my top 11 and I'll go here because I like the potential of what Phil Longo might be and again sometimes when it's a new coach like I have some other first year coaches on here because when you're the new coach and you got some juice and your ad says fire away you can like you can hire a good staff like you can go get your guys but I think for Phil Luke fickle to go do this is a big deal so I think Phil Longo has a chance to make a big impact no I'm I'm very excited about this pairing like you said I think Mike Trestle has proven to this point that he is going to be a serviceable above average solid defensive coordinator in the Big 10 but the the fil Longo thing is so interesting because he is such a dynamic offensive coach but the way that he does it is not just the most UNSC Consin thing I've ever seen in my life but like the most unluk fickle thing that I've ever seen right because I mean the the guys that we're talking about coming through before like we had Mike demock last year right to uh who who helped lead them to the college football playoff before he was hired Away by Brian Kelly like that is a that is a modest like slow things down like be very deliberate type offensive coordinator and then you bring in Phil Longo who is speed speed speed Pace Pace Pace Tempo Tempo Tempo just the complete antithesis to what you think about when you think of Wisconsin and now the thing is and I think this important to know is that Luke fickle is not an idiot he knows the reputation he understands what he's signing up for and I anticipate that if they decided to make this decision they've had conversations about how can we moderate what you do to really fit our team best because Luke fickle is a CEO he is somebody who is thinking about how everything will work together so I anticipate that that's going to be less of a problem than people think but it is a departure to say the least yeah and it's I can't wait to see it I can't wait to say this combination uh five for you oh no we have your five who's your four last one for you so I'm going with another pair of coordinators who have never coordinated together as part of a new coaching staff and I'm going out to Boulder Colorado and I'm going with sha Lewis from uh the former head coach at Kent State and Charles Kelly a former associate defense coordinator assist like a co-coordinator at Alabama these are two really experienced coaches in my opinion Shawn Lewis should already be a power five head coach it's kind of crazy that sha Lewis is not with everything that he accomplished at Kent State a place that's really really difficult to win um but instead he ends up joining coach Prime staff over at Colorado and Charles Kelly is is just a guy who's been around for a long time uh he hasn't necessarily run his own defenses all the time at this highest level but he is somebody when you talk about uh first year STA and joining a program like Colorado a very impressive higher I think you know he was defense a coordinator at Florida State from 2014 to 2017 you know it was a mixed bag but this is going to be a different kind of game playing alongside Shawn Lewis's offense playing on uh Deion Sanders staff in the Pack 12 I really like this combination I think that this is about as experienced and credible a combination of coordinators as you could have possibly expected from Deion Sanders at Colorado and I love the move and I I think that it's going to work I love it I love the inclusion of that here that's a really smart choice by you weren't in my top 11 but like I they should be because again what Sean Sean Lewis man like gave Georgia a little bit of trouble last year and got a lot of people's attention but but did a good job at Ken state so I like that top five Ohio State's not on this list you mentioned this this is going to I think this is a huge thing to watch Ryan day has said that he is going to have Brian heartline call plays in the spring with the idea of Ryan Day possibly giving up play calling so that's why I don't have Ohio in my top five Kevin Wilson left to be the head coach at Tulsa he was the non-play calling offensive coordinator there Jim nolles we know was the big higher of the offseason a year ago but Ohio State's defense was much improved but also Ohio State's defense had moments that let them down in the two biggest games of the year against Michigan and Georgia so I did not feel compelled like oh Jim NS has to be on this list at all costs and Brian hartle has never called plays and he might be about to and I actually think it's the right move potentially for for Ryan day to give up play calling to become more of a culture coach at Ohio State I think they could use that I think he can better use his time and I think Brian Harlin is certainly capable but we've never seen it and so monitoring will keep our eyes on it and the difference of whether Brian Hartline calls plays or not is like a huge deal Brian Hartline will eventually call plays I I thought maybe it was going to be that Ryan day was gonna say okay harlin's the offensive coordinator that's a promotion for him we knew that was coming when Kevin Wilson left but I'm going to call plays and Brian hartline's going to be groomed to do so at some point and instead Ryan day this this month said no we're going to see how it goes in the spring and the reason I'm going to try is because I think that's what he wants to do I think he wants to pass it off but I don't think we should put them there yet but that is a Hu that's a big decision for any head coach shahan when you step away from the play calling duties on the expert side of the ball no doubt and I think that this has a chance to really work but for me I I can't put somebody who's never been an offensive coordinator right in a list like this no matter I I think that Jim nolles is a top five defensive coordinator potentially in the game like I think he's really really good but you can't put a zero right like you can't put a zero which is what we have right now from Brian Hartline even though I think that he's certainly set up to be a huge success so if Kevin Wilson was still here I think if that's an interesting discussion then maybe I'm putting them at two or three right like they're they're really up there but I I don't think I can do that with Brian Hartline a couple other people who uh who I had on my short list Clemson with Garrett riy and Wes Goodwin I I think that Wes Goodwin did a pretty solid job in his first season as defensive coordinator it's again it's hard to always tell with a first year guy because you're just like are they just continuing what was already there or are they building it but I I think he did a a more than admirable job and Garrett Riley's going to be so huge for that team he was the Royals Award winner as the best assistant coach in the country this year and let's put it this way I I don't think that he's going to go full gatis it's terrible having a thing named for you I feel so bad for him it's just what's what is going on man and again on the list there's like a lot of interesting guys still out there who who don't have jobs yet we we'll be curious to see where they land I also had them on my list um I have one that I do you have Kansas State on your list I considered them I considered them very strongly Colin kleene yep used to be the quarterback there offensive coordinator Joe clander who had been a success at the lower level right as a defensive guy I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on the coordinators at Kansas State but it feels like they've really mattered the success Kansas state has had so I was I'm always on alert for Big 12 stuff from you shahan so I was curious you at least gave them some consideration oh absolutely and uh you know you you mentioned you're not a in the weeds with Big 12 coordinators well I am in the weeds with Big 12 coordinators the only thing that that kept me limited to some extent with them is their relative lack of experience uh clander took over play calling responsibilities in 2020 on the defensive side of the ball has done a really really solid job the the units definitely improved con kin has one year of work and it was a really good year of work but it's just when you compare them to some of these other guys on the list I I felt like there were other people with a little bit more of a track record and more experience at this level but they're definitely a combo I'd watched heading forward uh you know Ken State look they lost a lot they're not going to be back in the Big 12 title game next year here but they have a great staff uh another thing to mention with Colin Klein is that uh that Chris kman the head coach over at Kansas State let go of his longtime offensive coordinator in order to promote Colin Klein who remember did not come with him he was somebody who was already at Kansas State as a grad assistant and as an analyst so this is somebody who who was kind of certainly not pushed onto him but it was somebody who he inherited in some ways at Kansas State and really liked what he saw so I thought was a really smart move on his part to promote him and it's it's worked out in a big way another guy that I will go with is a I'll actually say in the Big 12 I have two more one the one big 12 one I was very impressed with Texas Tech staff this year they have Z Zack kitley who was the offensive coordinator at Western Kentucky during bayy Zappy's breakout season also came with him from Houston Baptist which is now Houston Christian which is a whole another whole other thing but uh then on the defensive side of the ball Tim darud a longtime successful defensive coordinator had success across the state of Texas was I believe the former head coach at Fresno State I think it was and uh he transformed that unit in one year it was a pretty okay unit in 2021 and in 20122 the numbers don't look great but if you watch like if you watch them play they held on to games a lot they were a big part of Texas Tech finding a way to win eight games for the first time since 2013 so that's a combo that I definitely think people should be watching one other combo that I thought about Old Miss was just hired Pete Golding from Alabama which Pete Golding it's one of those lateral moves that's well the program's not as good so it's not lateral but it sort of ran its course at Bama but that's a pretty good hire for Old Miss I think and then Charlie West Jr is 29 but he's on this list again find a list he was on the list when the Patriots were hiring an offensive coordinator before Bill O'Brien took it he's on the not Dame list now I guess it's just because his dad worked at both those places hold up are you sure that you're not reading lists from like 2005 are you sure there's a junior there what was the phrase that Charlie Weiss had like a significant schematic advantage or whatever so yeah uh so he's like I mean Charlie Weiss is one of those guys I mean I guess he was good but like this is not I think Charlie Weiss Jr might be overcoming some stuff with the with the the wreckage that Papa left in his wake at a couple places never going to be hired in the state of Kansas I can tell you that much no no so like again Charlie Weiss had his approved his football bonafides but um Charlie Weiss Jr he's just he's on people's minds and so another young guy he's not even 30 but I'll be really curious again you know L kein has a lot to say about how old Miss plays offensive football but that's that's a again for a place like old miss you get not that Pete golding's on the way down but this guy was the four-year defensive coordinator Alabama now you got him and maybe Charlie Weiss Jr is gonna be something and you you have him on the way up right now I think it's a potentially interesting not I didn't give him serious consideration for the top five but interesting combination potentially for Old Miss it's definitely an interesting combo I didn't love old Miss's 2022 offense that would be my one qualm and uh they switch from Jeff Levy to Charlie Weiss Jr during that run it's more Personnel it's not it's not that I don't think he's good but uh you know I I think I needed to see a little bit more from him I I am optimistic about the Pete Golding hire like when you're when you're the the defensive coordinator at Alabama you can't win you're either Kirby Smart and you're not th those are the bars right and so for me I was not that concerned they they were an inconsistent unit at times I also feel like you know and and somebody who is much smarter schematically than me should probably go deeper into this you know they played a style that I think was really built to stop the sort of fly over type game the really spread type stuff and if you're Alabama you don't really need that the same way cuz you just have four defensive linemen who win their one-on-one matchups and you're done and so I think that getting back to the basics will be good for Alabama but I think that actually uh I I think that Pete Golding will actually raise the floor a whole lot at Old Miss versus what they've had there the past couple of years so I I like the higher quite a bit all right those are one more one more one more oh you got oh I got one more mention for sh I know it's a long list oh by the way real quick just real quick we're both fired we're over 105 so this the last to ra off we'll be back next week with two free episodes with two different hosts because we've both been fired by the algorithm that Gary part bartab made in charge of this podcast you you mean uh you mean your your dad Mr larrice is firing us I I I got the I can will never forget the that I got from lay marce and Son saying would you want to be on my podcast let me let's let me check real just one second hold on one second hey Dad yeah can I still do the podcast even though we went over he said okay I have to wash his car but we can still do it he said okay but but at least we got the Rays uh my last one and really I I think that staffs are just so fascinating I could talk about this all day honestly but my last one who I actually this is the one that I consider in my 56 uh where I thought about putting them over Michigan is Oregon State Oregon state has been really really solid Brian lingren didn't have the best year last year because as I've mentioned many many many times Oregon State threw for 60 yards and beat Oregon they do for 60 yards that's imp how is that possible but in previous years he's managed this offense really well really well uh you know they they had a great running game despite the issues passing the the ball now they're going to bring in dju and I think they're going to just be legitimate Pack 12 contenders and Trent Bray is somebody who I'm surprised does not get more attention as one of those guys on the defensive side of the ball maybe they feel like he you know is specific to the way that the Pack 12 plays maybe you know I don't know what it is exactly but he's done an unbelievable job because remember uh Jonathan Smith is an offensive coach that that's not somebody who's who's managing that defense it's really I think a credit to Trent Bray the way that this defense has played and the fact that they've had a chance to uh to obviously compete for the for 10 wins for the first time and God knows how long at Oran state so uh really impressive uh group of coordinators to me and I think that that they have a bright future especially heading into 2023 when I think that with how much they bring back they are going to be a legitimate Factor uh not just in the Pack 12 but who knows maybe we'll have to have a discussion about them whenever August comes around I we are both very excited about Oregon State I am already having Iowa State flashbacks I don't know that you've gone out this is like maybe a a fresh limb for you to climb out on I feel like I climb out on these limbs too often and I fall off so I'm gonna be careful I might just pick Georgia four times to take every playoff spot I'm not sure depends if Tod monan is back but we will keep our eye on Oregon State because I think both of us like a lot of what's going on there okay that officially will do it next week two free shows and then all the weeks after after that for now for shahan haaja I'm Doug lay Maurice and that was the college football Survivor show the college football Survivor show where playoff survival is always on the [Music] line