okay let's go ahead and get started uh my name is Chris oir I'm the uh vice president of Federal Business Development and government Affairs at Sanborn Sanborn geospatial um my background is photogrametry I'm a I'm a certified photogrammetrist I've been involved with the USGS and um the three de program really since its Inception and so we've we've kind of come up with uh hopefully a nice recipe for anyone interested in either applying this year or uh looking at next year potentially as an opportunity um to look at acquisition of lighter or now 3D HP so the three-dimensional hydrographic program is now in play for um for these types of Grants although I can tell you it's not as well funded initially So today we're going to talk a little bit about um using the different vehicles uh for for Contracting this so the GF space Professional Services contract that the USGS has in place versus become a Cooperative technical program uh partner right A CP where you would typically manage that yourself um the uh threep versus 3dp distinctions um people often get those confused these days but want to make sure we distinguish between the two and um talk about how to budget for this how to cost share for this so there's some specific rules that you need to be aware of but also some opportunities um I see some familiar faces and familiar names out there and um whether you're whether you're you know a GI of a state you're working for a state whether you're working for a cog whether you're working for a water entity right there's all kinds of opportunities to partner with both federal state and local um entities and but the sooner you get started on that and any given budget year the better and uh so we'll talk a little bit about quality level standards what liar is what it isn't in terms of um opportunities for uh accuracy levels water flow studies where it's appropriately used and what the expectation is from the USGS in terms of meeting spec uh in terms of Cooperative funding here so uh we'll talk a little bit about how to create your area of interest it's not there's not rocket science here I think most people on the on this call are are GIS professionals or at least have been involved in mapping for a long time but there are specific rules and things that have to be adhered to to make sure any submission to the USGS meets spec and increase the odds of being funded uh there is an application process as there is with any federal um application for funding and there's a deadline approaching so we don't want to uh we don't want to rush anyone if you're interested in getting something submitted this year there still is time September 13th is the uh the deadline but I want to iterate now that it's a rolling process so if we got something in by September 13th really you have till as long as the USGS is amable and the funds are available we really have until the end of the year but we would need to get something put in place by the 13th typically for us that's a an assist to you where we would be helping you either write put together your costing all that information that the USGS would need so that you can submit if you don't want to submit this year that's fine this is a perfect time to be looking at next year because the uh you know this is a data collaboration announcement that comes out every year um it will be a year following an election year which is usually favorable for funding for these kinds of things but um either way we want to make sure you understand this is an ongoing process so if you're planning for next year we can help you there too um and then how to add value on top of this liar data most of you probably are fully aware um of most of the benefits of lar but you know the ability to to fuse Ed this data with imagery data to pull out all sorts of information environmental information water flow modeling building Footprints building outlines um anything that that is applicable in a three-dimensional nature is good uh is good uh fertile ground for this type of data so there's all sorts of uh uses for this data popping out of the woodwork as we speak but this program uh first off is uh the data collaboration announcements um they really it used to be called a broad agency announcement but this started in 20101 uh and it's really the the whole goal of the 3ep 3D National topography program was to map the entire United States including Alaska and Hawaii and maranis Islands wam um palao American Samoa uh those areas with a a standardized elevation model uh and and we're through that really through that first iteration 90 plus perc of the continental US has been mapped uh but now we're to the second iteration there's data that's older now so anything over five years now is reaching sort of the end of its shelf life for use because of development because of changes in terrain you know other things that that influence particularly hydrologic modeling where River channels change over time so we're going to kind of focus on that today but um Alaska for example was mapped with ifsar it you know it has its own challenges from collection of lar but they are looking hard at Alaskan now for lar as well and we're doing projects there too um and the whole goal of FY 25 this year and 26 will be to fill in the gaps in particular on Aging data so that would be anything over five years next so our DCA experience there's two maps here one is the on the left showing where we've helped clients uh Denver Regional Council of government Pierce County Washington that's a Seattle areas areas of California New York Texas Arizona Michigan there are others but the the the map here on the on the on the right really shows where we've been doing liar projects really over the past few years um we are nationwide so we we definitely push the envelope in terms of acquisition and processing of liar data we are a a USGS G gpsc Prime so we're doing thousands and thousands of square miles per year uh last year I think we were on the order of 60,000 plus square miles of USGS spec data not all of it was done for federal clients but some of it was and and it because we understand the specification right we we can help you move through this process quicker and we have good relationships with the USGS next so if you if you boil down how to apply for a USGS funding uh mechanism through the DCA right there's really allocated through two channels one of which is the gpsc the geospatial Professional Services contract which the USGS manages directly or you can request sandborn directly through a Cooperative agreement where you the state the local the county the Cog could be any entity other than the federal government manages it yourself or you you take on more of that role you you can request sandborn either way uh the only guarantee for sandborn is through a Cooperative agreement but I've seen it go both ways both methods have their advantages both methods have have their have their pros and cons so I don't want to recommend one way or the other here we're just going to go ahead and tell you what the differences are and uh let you make decisions based on best knowledge we can give you so typically though 80% of the USGS dollars will be directed through their own contract um there's a variety of reason reasons for this but uh at the end of the day that's been the average historically next so the mechanisms um so the geospatial Professional Services contract again Sanborn is one of 10 primes Prime contractors uh on that contract the USGS would manage uh most of the details so uh you would provide your portion of the Project funding because this is cooperative funding remember that the USGS uh won't fund 100% of anything this is the idea here is that we get more bang for our buck through group strategies whereby joint funding strategies get more data provided uh it's a multiple award acquisition vehicle as I said and we're one of 10 um the uh the acquisition processing and the quality shance of lar is is guaranteed right um and the USGS perverse Partners use the gpsc when possible and practical they have a team of folks in in both R Missouri and in Lakewood Colorado they do the quality assurance and quality control on the data it's a guaranteed mechanism right it's uh there's less overall risk in the project although there's some downsides to that too The Cooperative technical partnership right is a um is financial assistance Awards whereby you the client would apply directly right and then manage um essentially manage everything the applicant is responsible for securing the contractor to do that and the USGS always prefers their own contractors but you can choose your own if you like the data must adhere to the space specifications for the USGS uh USGS lighter base spec which has quickly become the national spec anyway so for most people they would be comfortable with that but we can talk about that if we can actually exceed the spec and run it through contract vehicles but the USGS is only willing to pay for up to their specification so I don't want you to think that can't exceed that in terms of Point density in terms of other types of data run through uh a contract vehicle but they're only willing to pay and match funding for their SP so next so let's talk about a side side by side comparison again we make no judgments as to which direction is better they both have pros and cons USGS the Gypsy 4 Prime uh which we can we can contract either way here uh the US s would manage the project they'd handle the the financial pieces of that in terms of rolling up through their contract um they would own the project during the execution and manage the contractor doing the the work it's less administrative hassle for you uh and it's uh the uh vendor Partners manage the actual work if we would be one we would do that if uh if our compe mates uh man win the work they would do the same um cons to that typically it's typically a slightly higher upfront cost um when I say upfront meaning the the the per unit cost UPF front is higher but again remember you you're not managing it so it's more boxed in in terms of a one- siiz fits-all and and you know without as much hassle so you have to weigh the pros and cons of that uh there's typically less schedule flexibility and other words once the schedule is published um getting data early requesting spe specific things and specific data products uh throughout the process that aren't prescribed at the time of kickoff is harder to do uh and the qaqc process can be longer depending upon the backlog at the USGS so those are some of the pros and cons um on the Cooperative contract Again The Entity if your state you would be responsible for the actual project management of that um that comes with pros and cons of its own um the contract inting and financing is yours to manage the USGS would provide their their matching funding and then you have to manage and Report based on that and then the ownership of the project during the execution is was to manage lower upfront costs typically the unit costs are lower here um there's definitely more flexibility on schedule uh and there's more flexibility for early deliveries um so there are trade-offs there if you ask for an early delivery that wasn't planned in one of these contracts that can affect schedule on the back in we've seen that but there's certainly more flexibility for the request if that makes sense um some of the cons are you know more Hands-On approach to Contracting management and qaqc so we've seen uh entities have to uh entities have to mention um uh or hire their own qac contractors and that's fine I did want to remind everyone too uh we're taking questions via the chat or the Q&A button down at the bottom of your screen so feel free at any time to type questions in and uh I'll be happy to answer them at the end of the the the actual um presentation so next so I need to distinguish here this year was the first year that they've allowed both threep which is the Light art collection right and then 3D HP the three-dimensional hydrographic program applications are allowed so you can apply for uh you know either path here so 3ep if you just need Bas liar collected and you want to upgrade maybe you've got five year older area um we can do that the 3D HP which is more of a a modeling contract where we go in and we edit existing lar data or collect new data and edit on top of that um we're allowed to do that too so elevation derived hydrography is a thing uh that's here to stay and that program is really really becoming more and more mature and how it's being used and we're excited about that I can tell you that funding this year is definitely weighted and slanted more towards the liar than 3D HP but if you have a particularly uh um contentious area or an area that is of interest to the FED feds uh and you want to get the water modeling done through elevation derived Hydra graphy methodologies 3dp may be a method for it but it's first year they've done that but it's indicative that for the future you'll see more and more funding opportunities for 3D HP type work and uh we've done this work and we're currently working on this in Alaska we've got uh some work we'll be doing in the Northeast us United States on this so it's a it's an interesting um move forward so you know this you know we didn't we didn't just collect the entire country over last 15 years for lighter with lighter and not expect to have to study the hydrology um the nice thing is we've now got the base data to be able to do that so 3dp applications are allowed but you can't mix and match you have to do one or the other or both if you want to apply for both you can but you have to do two separate applications so next so cost share is always an evaluation Factor as to what gets funded the US just just won't contribute more than 30% itself as an agency or as a as a as an entity uh and no more than 50% by Statute can be um contributed from the USGS now other federal agencies can contribute we've seen FEMA contribute we've seen USDA NR nrcs contribute we've seen Federal highways contribute um so there's all sorts of federal other Federal agency opportunities that you can bring in but the more time we have to pursue that and get the Partnerships together the better off we're going to be but it could also be uh private entities so power companies utility companies as long as they are willing to share the data and what we've seen there is as long as they're willing to uh contribute financially we can collect at a higher uh Point density for example for utility X um as long as they're they understand that we're going to deliver that data to the USGS as a share ing Arrangement at eight points per square meter or whatever the agreed upon quality level is if they pay for the extra density they would get to keep that on their own so there's all sorts of issues that come up U putting these Partnerships together it can be time consuming it can be complex but we're used to it so uh what I would say is get in touch with us earlier than later and we often times have our ear to the ground you know with entities out there you never know as do you guys I'm sure you're used to it I'm sure each of you has its own grants coordinator or people that you communicate with looking for funding opportunities we've seen other funding recent funding opportunities through Noah National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration so if you're a coastal state or a state that borders the great lakes or the Mississippi River um we can talk and no one may be able to help contribute with you there so next so just some things to think about um for uses of three dep which is remember the bass liar and 3D HP hydrologic modeling Watershed and Water Management water is going to be the number one driver of this program without a doubt for the next 10 years um clean water sources how uh what are volumetrics looking at sediment loads um looking at erosion looking at all of the things that influence Overland water flow is what this program is tail are made to do um tangentially construction and infrastructure planning hard surfaces are particularly accurate with this data so generation of surfaces onto hard surfaces is is really particularly accurate and and Well Done um it's definitely something we see more of a use for transportation use uh looking at pavement for example um we're approaching now with the the recent quality level and and in survey enhancements where we can go ahead and figure out you know volumetric estimates on pavement right that's coming and it's coming from an Airborne side resiliency efforts right how do we plan uh for the climate change uh studies that are ongoing for how do we how do we become that Baseline right for that type of application right flood risk assessment FEMA is is hard on this they've changed the risk map program and there's some pretty significant changes coming for for both uh assess of insurance rates for where the flood plane where the 50 and the 100e flood plane model land and um this this data is going to be right at the very center of that so if you are a coastal County if you are looking at flood X flood plane and you need to further analyze where that that line is this is the classic example of how to get funding to help with that Mining and resource exploration mining tailings we see a lot of that up and down the Mississippi River Corridor looking at tailings is looking at dredge information how do you um how do you reclaim land uh and then how do you account for that big deal uh change detection Disaster Recovery looking at tornado uh past uh pth where tornadoes have cut through uh generating everything from volumetric Lumber analysis how much Lumber was removed how much needs to be removed Wildfire planning we do a lot of this for the us4 service fire Behavior modeling looking at tree canopy uh and then you know anything from environmental to Resource Management so everything related to the ground and what grows above it and uh we're doing all of these things right now it's amazing what's happened really just within the last 10 years so this data has uh a really use case story it pays for itself over and over again but you have to be aware of what's out there and and how it can be used and we can help with that so next so these are just some examples of agencies and potential funding partners and places I've seen agencies help funding so if you're if you're an urban area or an area that's that's been um looked at as a hub zone or an opportunity Zone that's a new uh fairly new last five or six years uh categorization from HUD but HUD will fund uh and help fund I've seen that happen seen it happen uh in some of the Rust Belt areas around the country as well the uh FEMA is as I mentioned before the National Park Service is a good one uh they recently have funded some areas uh remote more remote areas where uh if you don't have a big tax base you're challenged right so if you're not a particularly urbanized area how do you get funding for that and usually it's through another Federal agency USDA classic nrcs National resource conservation service has pretty pretty much every County in the country has an RCS representative we know a lot of them and we can help introduce or get you in touch with them uh all kinds of funding opportunities there for them Federal highways also if you have uh Federal uh land in your area that has roads through it these are you know usually n could be national parks they could be military bases they could be uh just federal land that's that's allocated and has highways that run through it we can help get funding there at least to ask and then you know the forest service which is the USDA but uh they're they are uh always looking at ways to improve how they allocate and manage their resources uh part of the I'll show a map here in a minute it shows the Western Us's uh significant areas that still have yet that have older liar right so we're going to and that's probably largely I think because they don't have a they have a less of a tax base there and uh so different challenges but uh Federal programs can help fund this so the infrastructure bill has been the biggest thing that's funded our business really for the past two years it's been uh like nothing else I've seen in my entire career Disaster Recovery Fund have been a big piece of that too uh hurricanes are a big part of that but also floods flooding uh you're seeing more and more coastal flooding around the country um you know whether whether that's from uh climate change or any other reasons excess urbanization these kinds of things are becoming more and more reality for all of us um Departments of Transportation in any given state are great funding sources um It's usually the number one budget in any state or number two behind education um natural resources Environmental Management U you know I'll name them all but you guys all are typically state agencies here so you're going to know who has the funding within your state but what I would say is there's a compelling reason to use lar data in almost all of these so uh part of the part of the the benefit here is that we get to tell this story it's it's a 15-year success story there's plenty of a awesome stories to tell about how this data is being used so we just need to be engaged in that and I think it sells itself um special interest groups water districts River Basin authorities councils of government Land Trust cooperatives um these are all in play um the local governments often times become the starting point for these I've seen many cases where in the baa days and now DCA days you had a county that had some money for ldar and they wanted to do this and they realized if they took the next year and and went out and talk to the surrounding counties uh they could get large projects done next thing you know you're staring at a 5,000 square mile data set that's you know 20 to 30% less expensive to do than it would ordinarily have been because of the volum discount that that applies here um so the more data we do here the generally the less expensive it gets so and really the reason being is that the USG has helps fund it right so the idea here is that we spread the cost around so next so I I would be remiss if I didn't talk base minimum blar specification but uh you know when we when we talk about the standard today USGS breaks its specifications down to into quality level so that's lar quality level this is from the USGS lar base specification which is published out there um the required deliverables are a point Cloud a be Earth Bare Earth digital elevation model the first return intensity raster and then the brake lines which we use to enhance the demm and uh and federal G graphic data committee uh metadata right so standard stuff um but if you look at the Quality levels right now the the facto standard what we're delivering more of than anything else is ql1 data right so that's a nominal po Point spacing of. 35 me meters typically that's around around eight points per square meter or better we collect at slightly more dense than that um but you know the nominal Point spacing is you know is uh is really the measure of of on an average square meter what you know how far apart are the are the points themselves there's still quite a bit of ql2 data out there and the ql2 data is normally the older data that's the stuff we were talking about that's normally Five Years or or older um it's still perfectly good data but it's older it's not as dense it's not quite as accurate um ql3 is not really in play anymore I haven't seen a ql3 project personally and in years um but the whole point here is is the quality level data is really a measure of the nominal Point spacing and then ql0 which is listed here at also eight points per square meter it's more spatially accurate so it requires more ground survey supplement but if you're working for the dot they may want that right they're they're typically working at um more precise um data accuracies they're looking at uh at at More Design levels type data now we can go above this but the USGS is willing to pay for this ql1 zero and one would be in play here ql2 we wouldn't turn away but if it were older data we're trying to replace I would say the the cost benefit for upgrading to a q1 product makes more sense now because the sensors have gotten to that point where it it it really is worth it to get the more dense accurate data than two points per square meter versus eight so either way um we can add additional value to the data right with uh doing hydrographic work as we talked about the downstream literal all puns intended Downstream work from that uh could it could lend itself to doing elevation derived hydrography work it could uh we could do more classification of the data vegetation classification we can do building Footprints or building outlines um and then merge in bimetric and sonar type or Topo bath lar right additions to this so the whole point here is that this is a great Baseline for adding to Value later uh three-dimensionally so next again I'll remind everybody please pose questions down through the Q&A or through um chat and uh we'd love to uh hopefully get a couple questions at the end here um so so defined projector how do you how do you actually communicate that right project locations with no existing threep liar or data are preferred um there really aren't any in the Continental us if you're I don't know if we have anybody online from the maranis islands but your your data is not there yet right and I there's a perfect good example as to why it's you know 6,000 linear miles off the US Coast off the Continental Coast so there are some areas that have haven't been mapped yet but you know for the most part no existing threep data is really is not a thing anymore um if you have existing threep data with but there have been significant changes so anything over five years for example is uh is considered old data at this point and reaching the end of its shelf life for Value so we can help you by taking a look at the data we're going to look at a map here shortly and look at that and go ahead and determine where those areas are in general in the US but I would guess looking at the at who's attending here you tend to know that already go ahead next so here's the uh the map this is threep elevation data if you see there Alaska down to the bottom left that's in blue that's ifsar inter parametric synthetic aperture radar data that was collected from a from airplanes light Alaska is a unique animal You Know It uh has a lots and lots of cloud cover so ifsar data was used initially for three that there it's coarser but ifsr sensors penetrate clouds and moisture so that was initially used although we are now doing Light art projects in Alaska so if you look at the continental US here uh lots of the West Coast has been mapped recently but um tons and tons of the uh the rest of the continental US are still looking at older Light Art data and the older data by five years doesn't make a judgment on the data I'm sure it's still good very good data but you know in terms of development and change over time um it's becoming more and more more more less and less useful to rely upon as a three-dimensional model so if you're in this area and I know there are people in this area if you look at the coastal Coastal California for example um uh San Diego County it's is a big one um and then uh all of New Mexico a good portion of Texas not criticizing Texas at all it's a giant state right hard to manage from that much land area but also more and more funding opportunities I think as that state continues to grow um these are places right where we think we have plenty of opportunity to talk to other Federal Partners about how to get funding done um so just in general I would go to the USGS website you can see the the address there and uh and look at a couple of different things there are also places on there you can find interested Federal partners and I won't show that now but there is a a place on the USGS website that you can find interested partners that doesn't mean they have funding it just means they're interested in funding and there there's a whole map there that tells you where overlapping Federal Partners might exist and then we have to you know we we're really pretty good at knowing who those partners are who the actual people are behind that and so if you're willing to um entertain us we can help you get in touch with this put you in contact with who you need to put in contact and uh if you're looking at next year that's a great opportunity so anyway next so what is a defined project area a preferred defined project area and that's important distinction here um when we first started threep uh 15 years ago or so a preferred project there was anything countywide or larger you know Eastern counties are about 400 square miles well now as they've matured the program typically anything over, 1500 square miles is preferred uh doesn't mean you wouldn't be funded if you have smaller than that area than that it just means these are typically preferred the smaller areas will be considered uh especially if they fill in gaps right in the Baseline coverage um or where you know you know if it completes a geophysical or political unit that hasn't been completed um some of the counties out west are very large right compared to the Eastern counties you know I know San Diego county is uh roughly 4500 square miles so if it completes an area in southeast California for example or Southwest California um they may give that favor uh you know where the total area of a project is reduced to overlap with another DCA project submission so this is where the earlier we know the better because we can we can communicate with the USGS and figure out the lay of the land so to speak so if there are other areas that are being applied for we can coordinate that and uh so I would encourage everybody to consider that particularly if you're looking at next year um this year you know we've got an opportunity I would say if you're definitely interested we can get something submitted in the next eight days that's not a problem uh remembering that it's really a rolling deadline so go ahead next um so how do you increase your odds of getting funded well it's all about checking the box and making sure your eyes are dotted your tees are crossed and this is where we typically help our partners um our clients by really facilitating the submission process I won't say that we'll write it 100% but we can help you get there and then allow you to vet through um creating a defined project area there's a 100 meter buffer on top of an aoi that needs to be submitted uh there's some definite guidelines on how to submit those they need to be a a standard mapping format argis would be the the typical deao standard but they'll accept other other formats as well but you have to actually Define the area and then um we can work with you on setting that up right it's more a matter of really what you need to get mapped and how do we represent that to the USGS next um 3D HP so the defined project remember 3D HP is the hydrologic modeling and they must be developed from watery Water boundary data sets or Huck units Hydro IC units and so there's specific guidelines for that these hooks are eights tens and 12 and they're really a matter of scale um they're you know those are typically mapping units and they're normally out laid out by Watershed uh and you know what's interesting about the merger I won't call it a merger of 3dp and 3D but over time we've collected the country as a block but these watersheds are not blocked right so you know I know that we're looking at collecting by Watershed there's a lot of different discussions on going right now how to best represent those watersheds hydrologically so I think you'll see some changes but if you want to Define your project for Watershed modeling you need to do it by hydrologic unit and the address there is uh is where you can go to figure out what Hooks where hooks are and what they are and you know if you're in you know the challenge here is if you're in an administrative boundary you're a state you're a county you're a Cog you need to consider the fact that a Huck may run outside your Cog uh it may include areas outside that and the USGS is typically only going to find areas that include the entire hu and it makes sense water doesn't stop at a state line and it doesn't stop at a county boundary so we want to map what makes sense here next so uh the DCA was released on August 5th so we're now one month into that right and project submissions must be received digitally by Friday September 13th oh great Friday the 13th um but after they'll still consider project submissions after the deadline but you know they have to be reviewed until no remaining funds exist so we need to consider that as long as we get something in by the 13th at 5 uh by something I say typically these are five to 10 page submissions of which almost half of which is wrote stuff that you have to put together the the map of the study area um a narrative on on the justification and the the extension of funds right who where the funds are going to come from if you have some seed funding that you know of right that you already got into a budget I would say let's consider it for this year if you're still kind of thinking about it that's no big deal we can uh we can look at next year there's no emergency no rush but it's still very very feasible to get something put together um for next Friday if you like next um so how the FY 26 application Pro process would work um and this is where I'd say our odds if you're looking at a much larger area here um by larger area anything over 1500 square miles that you haven't considered yet um this would be something I generally recommend unless you already have 75% of the funding um you know we we need to strategize we need to sit down and talk with you about whether you're looking at lighter whether you're looking at hydrology as your focus um get a cost estimate together that has to be refined typically the first run at that usually ends up being refined to some level and then we go out and we help you find uh funding Partners right or you can find them yourself you I'm sure sure most of you are Adept at that but we're pretty good at it and we do it for a living and it's it's uh it's in our interest and won't we won't deny that so the cost sharing pieces of this are big and uh you'd be surprised at what pops out of the woodwork once you've established that you want to do this so again I would strongly consider if you're looking at next year to get started early and by early I mean like November of this year right we need to be talking about it because uh the whole point here is by September of next year when the next DCA is out if we have all of our ducks in a row your odds are being funded or probably higher definitely higher um the fiscal year budget request has to be put in place considering the fact that um for this year we're talking about FY 25 funds so everything has to be put in place you know generally uh the finalized plan everything in the application needs to be in place by the end of the year right so we submit the app if we do it next week and by the end of the year the details all have to be ironed out the who the what the contractor how much funding exists and who the funding partners are and the usds contributions so this can be time consuming if you're looking at working this year the only thing I would say is that if you're looking at submitting this year if you have funding in place now you should potentially consider it if you don't we'll work with you and we'll do that through the next year and give it some time to put it all together we're pretty patient about this stuff it takes time it takes alignment and it takes consensus and so that does sometimes take time to put together we're happy to have to work with you on that next so how to plan for getting more out of the program update um you know I talked about this later integrating the data data visualization tools spatial analysis being able to merge and fuse data for environmental use for water modeling for 3D modeling for extracting uh infrastructure data building outlines building Footprints three-dimensional data higher resolution quality level data those derivative products I mentioned you can contract for a higher resolution more dense data set through this but the USGS is only going to be willing to match funding on the base price of a ql quality level 01 0 through3 data set so next so in the end what we're saying here is we can help if you want to submit this year we'd love to help you out with that and discuss it but you know if you're also looking at next year I don't want to don't want to downplay that this is the time to be thinking about it and uh often times taking that extra year can mean a lot of difference in funding Partnerships and uh and the overall effectiveness of the program so I'm going to go ahead and um and look at yeah a question from Jane all right Jane so the question is has sandborn produced 3dp P data that has been accepted by the USGS and the answer to that question is yes um we have had uh data in Alaska recently accepted uh these were and we've done three projects up through Alaska Alaska is a is is a is an interesting unique animal often actually more difficult I think to work with than some of the areas in the Continental us but yes we have and we are being contracted currently to do Light Art data in the Northeast us so we do have uh an accepted data set so um these are things that uh we feel like we're we're an interesting option for 3D HP because we are not a an engineering firm right we're a data firm so we we come at it from a different angle and we've got some automated processes some ability to find coverts um that we've created that are unique we think and uh you know that uh we'd love to talk to you about Jane so yeah we have done that and then uh we have a question question here you had the same specs for ql0 and one the only difference yeah that's the difference between ql0 and ql1 is the accuracy the actual spatial accuracy of ql0 versus ql1 the the point density is the same and the accuracy of ql0 is basically the way we derive additional spatial accuracy is by creating more Ground Control right verification and validation although it's the same density um we can actually collect at a higher level of density for either of those right but at the end of the day the way that you enhance uh the accuracy of the data this vertical and the horizontal is to apply more ground control to that I hope that makes sense Jason thanks um so I will open it up further to questions let's see and uh we'll leave it open for a couple of minutes here and I genuinely appreciate everybody's time Mr Tesco I'm sure you have a question and uh okay I'm going to give it 30 more seconds but I genuinely appreciate your help my my com my uh contact information and email is listed below again I would encourage you to take a look at this two ways well really four ways two ways looking at timelines for next Friday five to 10 pages put together to submit for this year and Jane we'd love to talk to you about that because I think you're in an area that's relevant very relevant as uh as where you are but I'd also look at um uh next year as well so if you're looking at a much larger area um it may be fine to look for next year and we can go help you find funding for that too okay if there yeah so I will leave it at that thank you guys for attending today I look forward to communicating with you and uh best of luck we'd love to talk to you further and uh if you have any questions feel free to pose them later