[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] hello and welcome I'm Rosanna Lockwood and you are watching W News live from the AL Arabia headquarters these are our top stories at least 18 people killed in an Israeli air strike on a school in a refugee camp in Gaza the US and UK pledge nearly $1.5 billion in additional funding to Ukraine during a rare joint visit to Kiev and Capital Hill will get increased Security on January 6th when members of US Congress certify electoral votes for the 2024 presidential election [Music] at least 18 people have been killed by an Israeli strike on a school in the nerat refugee camp in Gaza the UN Agency for Palestinian refugees unua says six of its employees were among those killed in the attack Israel's military says it took precautions and claims the quote precise strike was targeting terrorists un Secretary General Antonio gz has condemned The Killing saying Israel's military interventions in Gaza have been un precedented in his time in the role well for more on this now joined from let's be clear we must condemned firmly what was the horrible Terror attacks that Hamas has produced but then afterwards we have witnessed a a series of military interventions by Israel in Gaza uh with a level of death and destruction that has no parallel in my times as Secretary General and with very dramatic VI violations of international humanitarian law and the total absence of an effective protection of civilians the Hamas also committed several violations of international imp law and there is the absolutely horrendous question of the hostages but um it is clear that what's happening in Gaza is totally unacceptable un Secretary General Antonio guz there well for more on this story I'm joined from Cairo by unoa spokesperson Adnan Abu hasner sir thank you for making time let we you heard the official lines about the strike on the school but tell us in your own words what happened yeah it is a school that sheltered nearly 12,000 you know people of displaced people from all over the G stb it stand by onra we have our team there administrating the shelter all the coordinates are being sent twice per day to the Israeli Army what happened that you know many Rockets you know had you know this school and tens of people were killed and injured unfortunately you know six of them they were unra staff member among them had teacher that he used to work as a teacher you know before this war and now he was administrating the shelter itself unfortunately it's not the first time it is the fifth time that the school had been targeted and all the time we are protesting sending you know to the Israel is asking them not to do it uh not to not to Target our installations but uh you know it's about 190 installation that had been hit and destroyed either completely or partly right now and I want to come back to uh to those repeat strikes but first let's start with those who lost their lives among the 18 several were colleagues of yours so sending condolences tell us about who they were there are three of them they were actually you know working uh assisting the head of or the manager of the shelter who used to work as a head teacher and others the shelter refuge in this uh uh in this shelter and they are our stuff actually you know and some others also were injured but I don't know the names or you know but I I I'm sure that some other stuff they were injured you know during the the strike and it's unbelievable actually we we we are panicking there we don't know there is no place no place is tap in in Gaza actually if it is if you are un staff or you are you are not un stop or Sheltering under the UN flag or not actually it's the same now and everyone exposed to severe danger yeah your agency had actually saying um that this latest strike and and the those kill brings the total number of un staff killed in Gaza to 220 how do you keep operating in those conditions it's very difficult for us you know we are nearly the only organization we are the lifeline of Palestinians in the G we have 15,000 staff you know fix term stuff still working there and we have nearly 10,000 of uh shortterm or part time you know stop working assisting us all of them they are panicking they feel that they could be targeted any time it's so difficult to move through the roads and you know the roads of Gaza you Gaza you need you know a heavy and intensive coordination with the Israeli Army but at the end you might be targeted uh you know any time and uh we never felt like what we feeling now actually what we feel now because it's uh the target the the targets and the Shilling and the shooting it's everywhere and you could be killed in any moment yeah we talked about the repeat targeting of this particular site this School the Israeli Army you say that you've been trying to coordinate with them well they they say this is their words that this was a strike targeted a at a Hamas quote command and control center inside the school what do you say to that well it's a school you know it's Sheltering it's Sheltering 12,000 people you know actually we we don't have an intelligence capacity to check you know people but more but we see them as you know know civilians and this is the consequences and the result of the attack that you know at least six of our stuff had been killed so what about you know what about others and this is the fif time actually that you know the IDE of you know targeting this school without any warnings so they can say what they want but we what what what is the result what is the result and the big question now is being asked it will be like that if really there is post that there is someone that who is you know wanted by by the Israelis are they are going after someone it is is that justified justifying the killing of tens of civilians of sex of honorous Staff as example we think that it is they are violating the international law they are violating you know Geneva Convention that you know it gives immunity for un installation and un staff also are for civilians let's just finally speak a little bit about the politics that's happening you know about Gaza but elsewhere there's been efforts renewed efforts and continued efforts to try to broker some sort of ceasefire but this all seems to be stalling do you have any hopes at this point we must have a hope we hope that there's a he fire you know what's going on it's unbelievable it's really a hell you know there is no place there is no place in Gaza to escape now they are exing you know 1.8 million people in 30 square kilometers only there is no prison and all over the board that you know the space of a prison 1 kilometer and you have 60,000 people in that prison 60,000 people now in every kilometer in the southern part of gas if you throw a stone not a rocket you will kill and injure people beside you know know that the whole humanitarian efforts is nearly collapsing because of the lack of food the lack of medicine the insecurity of of the staff so it's no one knows what no one knows what to do it's unbelievable what's going on you know you cannot predict that you will be the next Target that you will be killed after you know 5 minutes from now un uh spokesperson Adnan Abu haa we really appreciate you your time on a difficult day thank [Music] you well to some other news now on a trip to Beirut Europe's top Diplomat has called for a deescalation of tensions along the Lebanon Israel border meeting government officials and visiting the Border Town of nakara ysep borl reiterated the eu's strong support for the Lebanese people and staying with this Israeli media reporting us at Boral cancelled his visit to the country as part of his current Regional tour Apparently after Israel's foreign minister Yisrael Katz refused to permit boral's trip and asked him to postpone until October once borl finished his term in Brussels BS openly criticized the Israeli government and proposed sanctions against two ministers during EU meetings South Korea saying North Korea's fired several short-range ballistic missiles off its East Coast in its first launch in more than two months SS Joint Chiefs of Staff saying its military is analyzing the missile data and closely exchanging information with us and Japanese authorities while increasing surveillance and vigilance in preparation for possible further tests in the US southern states are under wind and flood alerts after Hurricane Francine made landall in Louisiana hitting New Orleans with heavy rain and strong gusts the arrival of the storm had prompted authorities to issue evacuation orders for thousands of people the National Hurricane Center saying francin accomp IED by maximum Winds of 120 km per hour and issuing a warning for the entire Gulf Coast look at this historic moment as two of four SpaceX crew members completed the first ever Space Walk by private astronauts a live webcast broadcasting the moment billionaire jerck isaacman exited the vehicle followed soon after by SpaceX engineer Sarah Gillis once he returned the four civilian astronauts are part of the Polaris Dawn Mission which is seeing them travel through Earth's orbit on a 5day mission and in another feat of human achievement an American Ultra endurance cyclist has been all records to become the fastest woman to cycle around the world Alaskan L Wilcox began her journey in Chicago and spent more than 108 days in the saddle Crossing four continents and covering a distance of just north of 29,000 km hotton her heels though is an Indian endurance cyclist who's currently 65 days into her own attempt to beat the record so that Victory might hang in the [Music] balance well still to come here on W news we get the latest from my London correspondent on a joint and high value show of UK US support in [Music] Kev from the White House to Gaza ke to Beijing elections economics and environment compete with conflicts and other complex issues for our attention in an age of fake news deep fake and artificial intelligence they've got to have a vote in a say it's important to look beyond the loudest voice to understand the truth from news makers to ground Breakers my campaign is going very well presidents Prime Ministers princes and peacemakers and cultural taste makers as a rep as middle Easter were too emotional join me on the risan show for empowering [Music] conversation welcome back now an extra one and a half billion dollar has been pledged to Ukraine by the US and UK in a rare joint visit to Kev by both countries top diplomats this comes as Ukraine's leadership is renewing their calls to be allowed to use longer range missiles against targets further inside Russia for more on this I'm now joined from London by our correspondent there olle Barrett Ollie good to see you look this is being described as a sort of rare joint visit by the US and the UK is that the case yeah I think that's fair to say Rosanna that that is the case and a large support package being announced by both the Americans and the British as part of this trip to see Vladimir zalinski in Ukraine package that's going to be spent according to the British on things like humanitarian energy and what they call stabilization needs um the American assistance will also go to the energy sector and uh things like Dem mining as well and what the British and the Americans are trying to do here is show that they are still on the same page about supporting Ukraine in the short term but also over the longer term as well and you mentioned those calls from the ukrainians while uh David L the UK foreign secretary and Anthony blinkin the Secretary of State for the United States were in Ukraine those calls for the ability to use long range missiles to strike targets inside Russia that was something that both men were asked about as well and the ukrainians Keen to keep the pressure on in that regard and both men hinting that those discussions are certainly underway all of this comes ahead of a visit by K starma the UK prime minister to Washington on Friday and Anthony blinkin was making it clear that he thought that that issue of long- range missiles and their use by the ukrainians would be discussed between K ster and Joe Biden in Washington indeed it seems like the UK is really getting out there on a foreign policy front right now with all these overseas visits um I'm interested in that one and a half billion figure that's been well just about up to that amount that's been committed to Ukraine because it was almost split down the middle between the US and the UK and they're not the same size economy so that's a very big commitment from the UK well the UK and the us as you say announcing this package I think because they wanted to show that they were again there together announcing large support packages but as you say proportionately they are rather different and that that does illustrate to a certain extent some of the concern among European allies of Ukraine that America has perhaps been a little bit slow recently in some of its support for the ukrainians they also o have that concern about what happens at the upcoming presidential election in November and what that might mean for further Ukrainian support particularly if Donald Trump were to win the White House back and so there have been a lot of efforts by the UK and other European countries recently to try and find ways of making sure not just that the American support for the ukrainians continues now but that they can lock in some of it for the future as well and um this package I think illustrates part of that but also as you say um the fact that the UK support for the ukrainians has been in financial terms the British would say very significant indeed the British have long uh tried to portray themselves as Ukraine's strongest Ally really uh before the invasion by Russia and also after it and perhaps this financial support package in terms of the scale of it um privately British diplomats might suggest uh goes uh some further way to illustrating that support from the British compared to some countries now with British prime minister K St as you said they're heading to Washington DC you think the Ukrainian wish to use long-range missiles into Russia might be on the agenda what else might he be seeking to achieve in DC yeah that that is going to be on the agenda we think we don't necessarily think there's going to be any great announcement that comes out of it uh on Friday after they've held talks but we do think that the British have effectively already decided that this is what they want to do uh and if there is Broad agreement on that topic between Joe Biden and K we' then expect some further diplomacy behind the scenes Kama heads to Italy for example uh later over the weekend and into Monday for talks with the Italian uh prime minister on that issue there would be further diplomacy with European allies on that issue of uh the use of longer range missiles by Ukraine inside Russia but lots more on the agenda besides that as well particularly the Middle East and both uh the British and the Americans calling for further progress towards some kind of sustainable ceasefire uh between Israel and Hamas that will be key among the topics that are going to be discussed as well lots more to the bilateral relationship between the Americans and the UK at the moment um K St are also wanting to show that as a new UK prime minister he is um held in high esteem in Washington but Ukraine those long- range missiles and the Middle East I think will certainly top the agenda we'll have to wait and see Ollie Barett for us in London there thank [Music] you we will be right back after this short [Music] break from the White House toaza he to Beijing elections economics and the environment compete with conflicts and other complex issues for our attention in an age of fake news deep fake and artificial intelligence they've got to have a vote and a say it's important to look beyond the loudest voice to understand the truth from newsmakers the ground Breakers my campaign is going very well presidents Prime Ministers princes and peacemakers and cultural taste makers as Arabs as middle Easter were too emotional join me on the risan show for empowering [Music] conversation welcome back now as the dust settles from Tuesday night's presidential debate stat side Kamer Harris and Donald Trump are back out on the campaign trail with less than eight weeks to go until polling day for more on this I'm joined from Washington DC by our correspondent there Caroline Malone Caroline we've now got the figures in some 67 million people watched that Harris Trump debate that blows the previous Biden match up out the water now that the dust settles what sort of conclusions have been drawn in general from the public from media pundits who came out stronger well a lot of pundits a lot of politicians and a lot of people who've been pulled seem to think that it was Harris it was camela Harris that seemed to do the best in that debate on Tuesday night but actually when you drill down to some of the detail of the debate a lot of viewers also saying that Trump did better on some subjects one of which is the economy which is vitally important and really resonates with voters you know Trump himself came out after the debate and declared himself the winner he said that you know he did well despite the fact he felt he was having to debate against three people he was referencing there um how the ABC moderators actually challenged him quite a lot on the facts that he brought to the stage some could argue that he needed to be challenged on those facts more than Harris but it did seem that they potentially gave him a harder time than Harris you know in this debate um we had those large viewing numbers as you've described there 10 million more than the Biden Trump debate and we know of course how pivotal that was with this election campaign with Biden now not running to be president again however if we look back in history to let's say 2016 there were more than 80 million people watching the debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump that was of course an election debate that was won by Clinton but then Donald Trump went on to win the actual election itself so certainly these debates AR important the viewer shows engagement on a voter level to people watching and looking to see which candidate they'll vote for but it's certainly not decisive when it comes to deciding who will eventually win the White House again so what are the polls saying Caroline you know with less than two months to go are they changing at all we are seeing some Trends in the polls particularly um from Harris supporters who've now brought her up to be neck and neck to Trump both on a nationwide level where we're seeing them almost at equal percentage points but also more critically in swing States swing states are so vital because ultimately voters decide on a state level who they're going to vote for which candidate they choose and then that state gets the Electoral um votes that then go towards the eventual candidate becoming president the swing states that are really critical according to a lot of political strategist for Harris include Wisconsin they include Pennsylvania they include Michigan um she's also now campaigning in North Carolina on Thursday that's another swing state that's vitally important and Trump is also campaigning in states such as Nevada all of those states are within one to three percentage points Harris is definitely gaining maybe ahead a little bit in some of the central states in the US but all within a margin of error so really at this point it could go either way for any of those swing States what is also very important when it comes to the data and the numbers is the amount of funding that these campaigns are gaining Harris thus far has got about $500 million that's a huge much more than the Trump campaign that is vitally important to help her reach voters to work on a Grassroots level to convince voters not just to vote for her but to make sure they actually come out on voting day and put their ballot to towards Harris so that is a huge Advantage for Democrats and something that could potentially make a difference when it comes to these vital swing States there's a lot of discussion as well about whether we might see another debate in the few weeks that we've got left uh in whose interests would that be well right off the back of the debate it was the Harris campaign that came out and said they were ready for a second debate they wanted to move forward with this idea that there should be a second debate debate before the election there's only now what eight weeks to go though till the election so it's really getting to the final stages of the election and the campaigning in fact a number of states um already have mailing ballots going out to their voters so people are actually already potentially deciding who they're going to vote for in a matter of days or weeks Trump seems to be a little bit more back and forth on whether he would agree to a second debate it took the two a long time the two different campaigns a long time to get to the point where they even decided on the first debate they were arguing mainly over the detail of whether microphon should be muted or not the agreement ended up in Trump's favor his AIDS wanted to make sure the microphone stayed muted interestingly though on Tuesday night we did hear a bit of back and forth among those candidates but it sounded like it was more in the background of the microphones but that potentially you know could have helped Trump in his favor and may be one of the sticking points if they decide on a second debate I mean casting our minds forward a little now post election January 6th always a key date and now particularly so because of what happened January 6th previously and it's the first change of administration since 2021 so are there going to be changes what steps are being spoken about there absolutely are changes and in fact um that date has just been uh designated as a national special security event and what that means is that federal agencies and security agencies are able to put forward a really strong security plan and funding to make sure that essentially everyone stays safe on that event given you know the anniversary of what's happened in the United States in Washington DC with the capital riots in 2021 now when it comes to funding that's uh decided on a federal level and also through different agencies and security agencies one of which is the capital police here in Washington DC since 2021 they've greatly increased um their hiring so they now have more offices available so potentially more Bo On The Ground as it were to help protect especially around Congress especially around Capitol Hill where a lot of the action will be happening that day and when you look at recent events in Washington DC you can see a level of security here that we haven't seen potentially in previous years one example is when prime minister Netanyahu of Israel was here speaking to Congress um out on the streets there were large protests but at those protest there was a very strong fencing that was put around put around Capital Hill there was Capital police very visible at every corner on every street to really control the crowds and I think we can expect that level of security again when it comes to the events of January of next year when they're going to be carrying out some you know vital events inside Congress essentially officiating what ends up being the election results Carolyn Malone in Washington DC thank [Music] you some business news now Boeing is under new pressure with voting underway by around 30,000 West Coast Factory workers on a possible strike that could start Friday this just the latest demounting pressures facing the US playmaker grappling with a $60 billion debt burden and production delays in addition to safety concerns about the 737 Max model shares down 36% this year and a major strike would pose a big challenge for new CEO Kelly alberg just a month into the role US inflation falls to the lowest in three years raising hopes the country's Central Bank will cut interest rates next week given the state of Voters finances this will likely form a key pillar of debate in the runup to the presidential election inflation peaked in 2022 but has been cooling for the past few months providing relief to American consumers some developments in the ongoing Central Bank crisis in Libya where a factional struggle for control over the bank has meant Financial chaos for many according to an Al Arabia correspondent talks between the and and various rival political leaders and representatives have resumed after a week of stalling the goal is to agree principles that will eventually lead to the appointment of the Central Bank governor and a board of [Music] directors let's get a reminder of our top stories at least 18 people have been killed following an Israeli strike on a school in a Gaza refugee camp the US and UK have pledged nearly 1.5 billion in additional funding to Ukraine in a joint visit to Kiev and Capital Hill is to receive increased Security on January 6 when members of US Congress certify electoral votes for the 2024 presidential election well that is all we have time for up next is Hadley gamble interviewing Tim Linder King the US Envoy to Yemen and at 1:30 p.m. eastern time join Tom burges Watson for Global News Today a deep dive into what US foreign policy could look like post elction and what this means [Music] vaza Tim lender King it's great to have you join joining us um walk me through the situation that's currently taking place how close are we to an ecological disaster thanks so much Hadley I think um you're referring to the fires that are burning on board a tanker that has a million barrels of oil on it we've been through this before last year with a softare tanker was a successful International operation to avert a major oil spill we're talking about a spill that's four times the Exon Valdes in Alaska um you know several decades ago this would decimate Yemen's fishing industry interfere further with freedom of navigation you know sensitive Coastal ecosystems destroyed it's a disaster and and it's easily preventable it should never have happened in the first place obviously it comes in the context of the houthis attacking ships in the Red Sea to make a statement about Gaza for most of us that statement Falls totally flat they don't they're not doing anything thing to help Gaza or Palestinians by attacking random ships in such a reckless and and indiscriminate manner they've sunk a ship they've killed crew they've set this ship on fire and they've obstructed despite public pronouncements they've obstructed the effort to salvage and Tow and tow the ship and put the fires out so it's a very very delicate moment so this specifically um give me a time frame how close are we to This Disaster taking place days away the experts are saying that 10 days from now you could start seeing damage to the holes there are multiple fires burning on board the ship there's no oil spill yet that we've been able to see and lots of people are monitoring the ship um to for for that very reason but you know it's a Race Against Time these fires are burning on board a a ticking time bomb and it it must be dealt with and that means parties from this Yemen conflict and parties that are in conflict with each other need to work together and coordinate and make this happen let's take a step back how did we get here because this was a conflict that members of the current Administration said many many times um was a direct result of Saudi intervention in Yemen you've been in that region for a very long time walk me through this so when I was appointed the the envoy for Yemen by the Biden Administration very early in the in the tenure of the administration was the first time that the US had appointed an Envoy for Yemen uh and what we did was partner very closely with Saudi Arabia the omanis others in the neighborhood and in fact the Yemen parties themselves who have a you know key voice obviously in what happens to their country and with the UN Envoy and uh with these combined efforts were able to establish a truce in what had been an 8-year Civil War with uh 400 projectiles coming across the border from Yemen into Saudi Arabia every year and I remember seeing them in the street in Riad you remember right and and there were you could hear and and feel debris coming down and there were Saudi uh air strikes into Yemen uh also destructive and this situation has stopped and I think that's a major it's a major accomplishment and shouldn't be lost in the current context there is a truce in Yemen it has held since April 2022 and there was a a very strong effort to create a road map for for a peace process and that was achieved through a lot of work between the Saudis and the houthis and the Yemen government um working together essentially to reach agreement on a road map that road map is there it's out there but it's on pause because Gaza happened on October 7th very shortly thereafter you have the houthis and other groups tied Iran trying to assert themselves and the houthis in particular I think violating uh International Norms by attacking commercial ships civilian ships at first saying that they were attacking ships that were going in and out of Israel not the case these are indiscriminate random Reckless attacks on any ship that is that is moving in the Red Sea in their own bid to establish their Supremacy as rulers of the Red Sea it's not going to happen the International Community is not going to support that it's not going to allow that so that's unfortunately the context that sets us to your first question about the tanker why it's on fire it's it's something as I said that is so preventable and should be dealt with very quickly and urgently the means are there the resources are there let's get them out put those fires out to the ship and you're using independent contractors in order to put this fire out correct that's right uh that's right uh we're in touch with them um but this is a this is and that's because it's too dangerous for us ships to be that well I I think the way that this is uh evolving is that you have a very close uh relationship uh on the Seas with a European an EU Le European Union Le Maritime mission on speeda and and they're partnering uh very closely doing a great job I think of providing you know security escorts for the for the Salvage team that would go out there it's a shame that security escorts are needed think of all the resources and that's because there's a houy threat the could attack the the Salvage crew they've said they won't they've said publicly that they won't interfere they must adhere to what they themselves have promised for this to be successful what is the plan to stop these attacks well more broadly I think what the houthis have said is that the there must be a ceasefire in Gaza we all want a ceasefire in Gaza nothing really on the world stage right now certainly in the Middle East is more important than a ceasefire in Gaza an into the killing and um and a hostage release and that's something that the United States is is working very closely as you know with with key allies to do that the houthis aren't doing anything to contribute to an end to the Gaza conflict it's just an excuse they are you know pushing their own agenda they're it's it's become political theater essentially but with very grave consequences lives are being lost on the Red Sea as I said you know this this uh catastro cast rophe would be uh hugely damaging to what is a pristine Waterway and a vital uh vital International Water way but how long in your mind is this going to take to put an end to these attacks because it requires military intervention and the United States as usual is paying the bulk of this well I mean I think everybody's paying the bulk of it if you look at the impact on Chinese shipping and the Chinese economy it's greater than it is on the US economy because so many ships are having to divert and avoid the area right but it's our weapons right that are being used to take these guys out well we're we're we're essentially not taking anybody out what we've done is focus very specifically on houthi Military capability right what capabilities are they using drones and missiles to attack Red Sea ships we're hitting those yeah we're hitting those but um you know it hasn't stop the houthis they're resupplying they're they're circumventing un Security Council resolution are getting support from Iran Iran's playing a key role I think to to Fan the flames and we need the Iranians literally to not do that yeah and to to to support the Salvage effort on this particular ship but also encourage the houthis to dial it back there's no need for a big uh big uh military theater in the Red Sea at this particular Point Let's devote the resources to ending the Gaza conflict and I'm sure that when that happens it will give an opportunity for other crises in the Middle East to deescalate and we we're going to have to seize that moment oh you're a diplomat what is our leverage right now with Iran to convince them not to support the houthis in these attacks I mean I know that the Iranians have have said that um they're not supportive of they don't want a you know another front breaking out in the Red Sea you know they they've got enough fronts as it is Lebanon border is hot Gaza is obviously hot uh there have been some attacks elsewhere in the region uh so it's a it's a it's it's a very inflammatory situation right now and the Iranians can help by encouraging the houthis to dial it back and and we as the United States have used every opportunity in the past few months to explore every Avenue for deescalation we've put proposals on the table we've we've communicated with the various Yemen parties the houthis are holding hostage a crew from a ship that they hij act in November a 25 member crew from five countries that have nothing to do with the Gaza conflict nothing to do with Israel but are we surprised I mean it's the houthis I have to say that um the houthis for anybody who needed them are showing their true colors right they've taken advantage as we were saying of a Gaza conflict to push their own agenda to amplify their own to project their own power on the Red Sea we don't think that that is good for Yemen peace process it has stalled the peace process it's put that road map that the houthis themselves worked toward it's put that on on the Shelf there's no way that the International Community wants to see a Waring party like the houthis but they're supplied by man they are supplied by that's correct and we don't have any leverage to convince the Iranians to stop doing that at this point well I'm not sure I I think um you know there are their ways of getting messages to the Iranians and and we do that on a number of we do that on a number of different crises that are happening so there's a moment I think where Iran which welcomed the truce in Yemen in April 20202 and which is has has conveyed some concern about an ecological disaster in the Red Sea capitalizing on those it would be great for the Iranians to support deescalation in the SE irrespective of what's going on in Gaza because we don't know exactly when there's going to be a Gaza ceasefire why should Yemen's crisis which needs International attention there's a there's a very serious humanitarian crisis in Yemen and the houthi behavior is essentially exacerbating that humanitarian crisis they're also making it more difficult for humanitarian actors in Yemen to do their job they've rounded up more than 100 yeah uh staff yemenis from un and intern interal organizations these are humanitarian workers in Yemen working to help Yemen yeah they're not spies they're not International Traders or whatever they're just yemenis working for the benefit of of their own country let those people go let them do their jobs what about Russia because there are reports that the Russians are supporting the houthis as well what evidence do we have that that is happening well we've been very concerned about those reports and we've we've dug into that and uh that would be very unfortunate and very inflammatory for the Yemen conflict and for the region if Russia were to abandon what has been a principle which we share there's no military solution to the conflict in Yemen that's been a core principle for the Russians the Chinese and the United States over these past couple of years and it's been very helpful to work with that common ground but the Russians if they're going to start arming the houthis that's a that's a GameChanger that's very serious Saudi Arabia is not going to like that I don't think the omanis would like that I don't think anybody wants to see that that's going to inflame the conflict what we're really focusing right now on is deescalation literally putting the fires out as we're trying to do with this uh tanker just a few days ago Russian President Vladimir Putin was on stage and thanking Muhammad bin Salon the Chown Prince of Saudi Arabia for his work in the hostage negotiations between the United States and Russia um you spent a lot of time in Riad prior to this role um is it a surprise to you that Saudi Arabia has become such an important conduit in those conversations it's not I think uh I think Saudi Arabia is you know just plays a key role in in the Middle East region and uh it's it's reforming its own approach to development uh diversifying you know pushing uh developing other Industries its own infrastructure propelling women into the Forefront of diplomacy and and Saudi Society in a way that when I was there some years ago was was not happening was or happening very slowly um and I think you know re important actors including the great Powers also recognize the important role that Saudi Arabia plays and they're integral to the Yemen to ending the Yemen crisis in your mind is this a very different um role that saud's now taking on because obviously as you say in the past they haven't been at the Forefront necessarily of of great power negotiations but they're there now I I do think it's a recognition of of the important role they play as a member of the Islamic community with the holy sites in in Saudi Arabia uh and I think their you know their economic power and their political weight we talked to the Saudis about so many different issues everything from investment and trade to you know bringing the conflict in Sudan to an end working on uh uh relations with with other Middle Eastern countries so they're they're a playing a very vital role right now and I think again as as the US Envoy for Yemen they're key absolutely key to ending the conflict once and for all for moving in Yemen moving beyond this the the truth that I mentioned deescalate the Red Sea attacks and then trying to bring yemeni parties together to the table in a political resolution of the Yemen conflict which is ultimately our goal and we remain fully committed to that we see the Secretary of State making multiple trips obviously to the region in the last few months and essentially trying to give us a preview if you will if of a us uh Saudi strategic agreement whether it be on security or on perhaps Israeli Saudi relations um in your mind how big a part of these future agreements will Yemen be I I think Yemen has been a a big factor in the US Saudi relationship but also as a Regional Crisis and and I think the fact that um the US Saudi Arabia and other countries Oman the UAE are working very closely to to try and end the Yemen conflict there's a recognition that this is possible and the fact that there is a truce I think was a great achievement but it's not enough it is not bringing the kind of stability and opportunity for Yemen the Yemen people yet until there's more stab ability and and ability to develop their economy this is something that the United States is all in on that's what we want to see happen we've got to get through this extremely difficult period these attacks on the Red Sea the Gaza crisis inflaming the entire region and making uh creating tensions in in all directions we've got to get through this and get back to deescalation I believe it's possible in the emmen side do you believe that this is going to happen before the US election I think that's uh that's difficult to to predict but I know that the the administration is determined um on the Yemen file to make progress right just keep keep pushing at at the things that that have been successful so far and keep working with Partners to to deescalate that's that's really the the the the major thrust of the administration we are losing freedom of navigation in your mind how important is it these next few days in terms of getting this on ship fire under control um to signal that the Americans have a a handle on this situation because right now it seems as if the United States the most important and the most impressive and most powerful navy in the world has totally lost control you need to do you need to protect freedom of navigation with partners and obviously the countries that that border these Maritime spaces need to need to work with us many of them do uh but there is a non-state actor the houthis that are dabbling in in the middle of all this again trying to assert their power their political Authority using Gaza as an excuse and it's very damaging for the Region's economy we talk about you know the the Suz Canal uh incomes that that that the Egyptians rely on those have have have declined by 50% the houi attacks are hurting humanitarian Aid into Sudan they're hurting Ethiopia jibuti uh we talk to all of these countries they may not say something publicly but they're all privately acknowledging to us that they are against these houy attacks they do not support them they do not think that Gaza provides the the you know an excuse to do this so we've got to bring those conversations I think more into the open put more pressure on the houthis this is not the way for the houthis to gain International legitimacy this is not going to build support for them as as a credible actor in Yemen it does the opposite yeah but in of of of forcing that agenda how do you do that at this point other than by means military I think you have to look at the different ways that we can uh that we can put pressure on on the houthis and and try and Achieve results again Gaza seems to be very important to all this but um again I think we have to look at ways that we can compartmentalize if you will Yemen and see what we can do in the Yemen context and there it's it's working very closely with with our partners with regional allies and indeed we have you know pretty vigorous conversations with the Chinese about ways that we can cooperate to uh to work together to deescalate uh the situation in Yemen Yemen's economy needs uh needs a lot of attention um Regional voices I think could do a lot more to speak up because they're being negatively affected by this for example I think you can pick any country um uh you can pick any country in the region um we talking about Jordan Egypt any yeah all of them um they're all they're all negatively affected by this and they also want deescalation across the board right no one wants back in your mind is it because of the connection with Gaza or I think so I think Gaza is is uh is sitting is weighing very heavily on on all of our minds um but it it it also makes it more difficult I think for regional uh countries and allies to speak out as as as they need to do would it be fair to say that until there's a resolution on Gaza there won't be a resolution in the Red Sea I I uh I'm not going to say that because I I believe and I think it's it's the job that was entrusted to my team and me is that is that we we have to keep working for every at looking at every opportunity to find ways out of this to defuse and there are very specific things that the houthis could do I mentioned the hijacking of the ship release the crew there's no reason that those 25 crewmen can barely have a phone call with their own families why are they still being held in Yemen let them go let the local staff that they've uh detained inside Yemen show that they are um you know willing to adhere to some principles other than their own sort of personal gain I think is we're looking for those indications from the houthis and backers could could could push them in that direction as well so to the idea that we have lost the Battle of the Red Sea how do you how do you respond to that because it seems as if we're just in a stasis I don't think uh we've lost the battle for the Red Sea I think um I think there are are opportunities we're looking at at you know various options uh to to reinstate freedom of navigation we view this as a temporary situation again as as I say there's there's no way that the International Community is going to allow any non-state actor to continue to attack uh ships from any part of the Red Sea yeah um but they have been for months so that's where we are their capability to do so has been degraded but their their their determination because as I say as as some of their Arsenal is destroy they're able to resupply so we need support uh to cut off the resupply yeah that that's a big part of it and that that's coming essentially from Iran so that's an area where we're really calling on the Iranians stop resupplying stop the smuggling in contravention of un Security Council resolutions help us work to deescalate it's good for the region yeah when you take a step back and look at uh the situation more broadly China obviously there are conversations around Taiwan around freedom of navigation what any conflict in the South China Sea might look like there's seeing the Hiles get away with this and get away with this at least for now at a relatively low cost to them and a big cost to us how worrying is that to you yeah I I think that um that conversation that we're having with the Chinese is very important we'd like to we we will continue to do so we but they're watching us and they're seeing us fail well I don't think uh we're not where we want to be that's you know that that that's clear but the Chinese economy is being hurt by this situation they will acknowledge that to us the Russian economy Etc so it's a non- tenable situation and there are multiple ways to dial up the pressure the question is who's going to do that and who's going to do that with us or on their own we need to look at ways and you can't and will we do that before a US election you can't divorce this from a regional context which is very very hot and very Pro very provocative yeah so um while I say say we're making every effort to compartmentalize and focus on Yemen I do acknowledge that the Gaza situation is is creating problems more problems for everybody in the region that needs to be yeah that needs to be settled in your mind is this something perhaps not done by the US election but perhaps done by the end of the year and I ask timelines simply because we keep being told by the secretary of state that a big agreement is coming with Saudi Arabia and I'm just putting two and two together everybody's working on that agreement and everybody's working on the Red Sea as well I'm I'm hopeful that we'll see good progress in the coming months Tim walk me through how receptive the yemeni government has been to this work because essentially you're dealing with uh for what is for them a terrorist group that's right they do regard the houthis as a terrorist group and in fact we have uh the houthis placed the houthis this year on one of the terrorist lists that that we have at our disposal about time some say some say long overdue um but the the Yemen government is is the legitimate government that's recognized by the International Community by the United Nations and uh there is a uh an 8ers presidential Leadership Council that that leads that government they need support they need international support the houthis have essentially strangled the Yemen economy so it's it's it's almost impossible for Yemen to produce oil which it has um produced uh natural gas which it has at this particular time so they're very dependent on outside support at this moment that's not because they don't have resources it's because the houthis have strangled the economy and that's unfortunate um so we uh we meet with the Yemen government leadership we the Europeans the International Community they will be at the UN General Assembly we'll have meetings with them there we'll be talking about what we can do as an International Community to strength them for that day we all want to see when there is a political dialogue yemenis talking together about the future of their country how important in your mind is it that these conversations are wrapped up in a positive way by January because there could be a new Administration and they may not necessarily take the same line yeah I'm pushing certainly as hard as I can from our side and I have the you know the backing of the administration I mean is that something you use as leverage in these conversations the region you know moves at its own Rhythm right so we can't entirely control that but I would really like to see not only this this tanker of course uh dealt with as quickly as possible like next week um but then then move from there into greater deescalation in the Red Sea and and building up uh the Yen party so that they can actually start an a political negotiation on the future of the country Tim it's great to have you thanks so much for joining us thank you very much Hadley [Music] from the White House to Gaza ke to Beijing elections economics and the environment compete with conflicts and other complex issues for our attention in an age of fake news deep fake and artificial intelligence they've got to have a vote in a say it's important to look beyond the loudest voice to understand the truth from newsmakers to ground Breakers my campaign is going very well presidents Prime Ministers princes and peacemakers and cultural tastemakers as Arabs as middle Easter were too emotional join me on the risan show for empowering conversation [Music] the truth simple letters that drove mankind to investigate and search for answers and through this we uncovered the threads of our beginnings we have traveled through the Realms of our imagination and knowledge through many Journeys across the universes floating among the the Suns and planets we've discovered moons and monitored the passing of meteors they ventured through Waters to discover the cycle of Life they traveled across the rivers oceans forests and [Music] plains in a land where the mountains and topography tell a tale that is millions of years old living creatures of all kinds have traversed them throughout time even human beings endured the Journey of building Empires whose remnants remain present till this very day a journey of growth and development which differed in form but congregated under the premise of establishing [Music] life then there are the Arab manuscripts that are overflowing with knowledge that traverses the strings of time and space drawing a thread of light that has lit up the pages of our history in a journey that is rich in its content and substantiated by its details from primitive cave drawings to the engraving of letters on Stones it set out writing was invented and the alphabet shortly followed and an is the case in all Journeys what is new is the [Music] title if you hold a manuscript today it will Captivate you and the essence of the past and history will enthrall you the mesmerizing writings will take you down the path of a deep and ancient history from the samarians to the naans to our Arabic letters in their many forms [Music] the first calligraphers excelled in their precision and artwork skills they added diacritics and with ink and tools they wrote it all out and they decorated them with their motifs these are the messages of Light Pass on through the history of Arab manuscripts [Music] [Music] [Music] on the walls of these caves ancient mankind left drawings that were made with their simple Prim itive tools displaying pictures of their experiences in life making them an important form of documenting the beginning stages of the history of human beings with the passage of [Music] time the needs of human beings began to grow and become more diverse they invented writing in the fourth millennium BC engraving their writings on rocks and stones with evidence of these writings existing to this day the innate tendency of mankind to develop their tools prompted them to search for more facilitated means of carrying transporting and preserving items they used they invented tablets designated for writing they were mostly made of porcelain clay and wood clay tablets were used in Mesopotamia and the Levon as a Mainstay material for writing these tablets were made of soil and water and typically took a rectangular shape they were written on using pens that had tips that were triangular in shape and were made of re metal or copper this writing was referred to as cfor script or cuniform writing in the British museum there are about 13,000 clay tablets from Mesopotamia other ancient civilizations and the Syrian Kingdom of Mari in which the largest library in the ancient history was discovered the first of these tablet-based manuscripts dates back to the year 3000 BC and this form of writing predates the emergence of the alphabet by 1,500 years remaining prevalent until the first century [Music] ad they were collecting these tablets and categorizing them according to their content the tablets were numbered with the name of the Scribe being written on it as well they placed them together in large containers or on shelves each group of these tablets constituted a book if compared to what amounts to a book in our modern times tablets such as these were found by archaeologists in the outskirts of the Babylonian City nepur the tablets contain judicial religious and and medical topics as well as information regarding magic and astrology the tablets that have been found date back to the year 200000 BC despite developments in writing and the alphabet oral history prevailed as the main means of sharing knowledge and Sciences among Arabs this took place among people across [Music] Generations most of the renowned and recorded cultural aspects of ancient societies were originally passed along orally the ilad The Odyssey and other Antiquities from Greece were spoken Tales originally Homer was the first known oral historian however we were able to witness his work in writing recorded Arab Heritage in many scientific Fields is present and they were available and passed on orally this tradition of oral history is based on deliberation and narration it is unanimously agreed upon that modernists historians experts writers and early poets all benefited from these sources of oral history among them are Al balad alari almi and I khun who passed away 808 hij they are headed by the early Muslim historians who heavily rely on oral history during the process of composing their books even pre-islamic Arabic poetry was almost entirely in oral [Music] form the availability of oral history to us was due to Muslim Scholars who Quantified their rules and these rules would later become independent studies in their own rights such as the science of attribution the science of impeachment and endorsement terminology and many more oral narration and cultural sayings that are living remnants of the [Music] past they have however been subjected to alterations disintegration modification elimination and have been enhanced therefore we should not view them as historical facts that are absolute truths certain apprehensions regarding these records prompted some historians to claim that oral history is only suitable for studying societies that did not keep written records others refuse to analyze oral narration or use oral sources and prefer to rely on written documentation and texts however oral Recollections remain vital to certain aspects of comprehending elements of our history [Music] most of the materials that were used were what the environment surrounding them had to offer such as PM fonds that were known as alas this material was used during the pre-islamic era and the Advent of Islam they also used a wide and thin white stone referred to as animal bones were used as well especially Bones from the shoulders and ribs which were used extensively due to how easy it was to attain them this disparity in writing materials and methods led to The Disappearance loss and Distortion of many facts sciences and knowledge that were being attempted to be passed on this further pushed the need to create a system system of preserving and documenting [Music] [Music] them with the increase of intellectual and cognitive growth and developments among the Arabs in the fields of Sciences writing recordkeeping and composing written pieces were emphasized and advanced this is confirmed through the abundance of writings that we have access to now from those times and they are referred to as manuscripts manuscripts include any handwritten document whether it was written on Papyrus papers parchments or paper which is known as [Music] Al from the beginning of written record keeping among Arabs until the emergence of the printing press in the Arab world [Music] there are currently thousands of Arab manuscripts in museums around the world and they contain information regarding various [Music] Sciences injur Prudence language history geography medicine astronomy and Mathematics these manuscripts embody the genius and culture of the era of that [Music] time they allowed the characteristics and personality of the Arab nation and its civilization messages to be transmitted across time we are following in the steps of our predecessors and we have a special role in contemporary civilization the Arabic language was a tool used to Aid in expressing the thoughts and topics contained in those manuscripts the Arabs assigned their books with many titles among them are books Toms messages volumes and [Music] journals except that the word manuscript was not known to the ancient Arabs in its conventional meaning that it is associated with in our modern times everything that has been handed down to us from books regarding Heritage and culture from ancient literature that was recorded in the handwriting of their authors or copyists is deemed as a [Music] manuscript the manuscript it acts as an intellectual container that has preserved the various fields of Science and knowledge of the Arabs and assisted in passing it on across generations and formed an important basis for enriching The Sciences of civilizations there are approximately 3 million manuscripts of Arab Origins distributed across International libraries the production of Arab manuscripts continued up until a period of time that is not far from our own it stopped with the beginning of the spread of printing presses in the Arab and Islamic World during the 19th century ad [Music] [Music] a basin of thought that has driven us to dive deep into the details it encompasses and to search for its secrets in hopes of finding what we are searching for through a journey that branches off in its titles and converges in the Arab manuscript [Music] from the White House to Gaza ke to Beijing elections economics and the environment compete with conflicts and other complex issues for our attention in an age of fake news deep fake and artificial intelligence they've got to have a vote in a say it's important to look beyond the loudest voice to understand the truth from newsmakers to groundbreakers my campaign is going very well presidents Prime Ministers princes and peacemakers and cultural taste makers as Arabs as middle Easter were're too emotional join me on the risan show for empowering conversation [Music] welcome to Global News today bringing you exclusive insights and fresh perspectives from leading experts and influential decision makers every weekday here on alabia news I'm Tom Burgers Watson coming up in our program the UN Secretary General Antonio gerera strongly condemns the attack that killed six un employees will'll be speaking to a Hamas Israeli negotiator about how a ceasefire could be reached we'll be getting reaction to those air strikes with the former deputy mayor of Jerusalem and special Envoy for the foreign Ministry Flur Hassan Nahum and also from the Palestinian ambassador to Denmark Manuel hassia and as the dust settles from Tuesday night's presidential debate we'll ask what are the press the pundits and the public saying about who came out stronger [Music] welcome we're going to start with Gaza where many people are coming to terms with the deaths of at least 18 people following on from an Israeli air strike on Wednesday which hit a school in the N nadat refugee camp amongst the dead six employees of the UN Agency for Palestinian refugees unun while the Israeli military has defended the strike claiming it was aimed at terrorists and they insist that they took all the necessary precautions however the Fallout from from this attack paints a grim picture of what has become a Lost Generation in Gaza meanwhile tensions continue to rise on the West Bank adding further complexity to an already volatile situation well the UN Secretary General Antonio gues has strongly condemned the attack labeling Israel's military actions in Gaza as unprecedented during his time as un Chief in the case of Gaza let's be clear we must condemn firmly what was the horrible terror attack that Hamas has produced but then afterwards we have witnessed a a series of military interventions by Israel in Gaza uh with a level of death and destruction that has no parallel in my times as Secretary General and with uh very dramatic violations of international militarian law and the total absence of an effective protection of civilians the Hamas also committed several violations of international law and there is the absolute horrendous question of the hostages but it is clear that what's happening in Gaza is totally [Music] unacceptable un secret General speaking there for more on this I'm joined by the Middle East director of the international communities organization the Ico uh who's also a longtime back Channel negotiator with Hamas and has worked with various Israeli Prime Ministers Gerson Bas a very warm welcome uh to Al Arabia news thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us first of all um the UN Chief Antonio gueris we just heard him there condemning that attack at nayat he called it totally unacceptable what's your understanding of what exactly happened at the alji school uh there in Gaza look I think it's important for everyone to note and I think everyone knows this already then on October 7th Hamas crossed moral red lines that should never be crossed and since October 7th Israel has been Crossing all kinds of moral red lines that shouldn't be crossed the Israeli attack in narat is based on the continued premise of Israel that military pressure will lead to the freeing of the hostages we saw a week and a half ago when Israel rescue attempt of hostages that led to their execution so I believe that the Israeli Army is being a lot more cautious now about not engaging in those rescue missions but they are still pounding Gaza with bombs attacking Hamas Fighters and and not releasing any pressure on Hamas in order to help release the hostages this unfortunately is leading to the killing of many innocent Palestinians and of course the killing of Israeli hostages as well so you're basically saying that the current strategy uh of Israel uh at least when it comes to the releasing of the hostages simply isn't isn't working well that's for sure we're in 11 months of this war and eight Israeli hostages have been returned alive through rescue operations there are still 101 hostages in Gaza we don't know how many of them are alive this strategy is not working they can only be brought home through an agreement with Hamas but Israel is very reluctant to make an agreement with Hamas because it will be perceived as a Hamas Victory and prime minister natano continues to talk about the false hopes of a total victory over Hamas uh there's a Hamas delegation in Doha right now negotiations obviously have been on for for months um what sort of an impact could an attack like that one at nerat have on uh the the dialogue I don't think it has much of an impact there already between 40 and 50,000 dead Palestinians in Gaza the majority of them civilians it's not clear how much Hamas really cares about the civilian deaths some of their leaders have talked about the sacrifices that the Palestinian people need to make in order to achieve Liberation and they have this distorted Islamic theology of sanctifying death and becoming a martyr so I'm not sure it impacts the talks the my bottom line on the talks is that they've been continuing for three months and they are essentially negotiating a bad deal they're negotiating a deal that doesn't put an immediate end to the war and Israeli withdrawal from Gaza nor does it release all the Israeli hostages at once and that's what needs to be achieved in negotiations we need to end this war we need to get Israel out of Gaza we need to return the Israeli hostages home that's what needs to be negotiated on and un unfortunately that's not what's being negotiated at the present time I mean just going back to the the talks themselves uh we heard from Hamas that they uh they've made a new offer they say uh to with no conditions to respect the framework that was put forward by President Joe Biden back in May what what's your reading of that offer well Hamas is trying to say that Israel is responsible for blocking the agreement while the Israelis are saying Hamas is responsible in fact the bottom line is is really this that this is not a good agreement they're talking about a 40 6 we first stage ceasefire in which time 32 hostages will be returned to Israel Israel re will redeploy out of populated areas by the way I don't know what unpopulated areas of Gaza look like there are no unpopulated areas of Gaza and then we don't know what happens in the second six we period That's supposed to be begin after the first six weeks it's not determined they say negotiations will continue Israel say will Israel says that they will renew the war and Hamas is saying quite clearly that they will not make an agreement that does not put an end to the war so we're kind of stuck on this ongoing negotiation I understand that there are two main issues that are left to be determined one is the Philadelphia Corridor the border between Gaza and Egypt that Israel demands to keep a military presence on and the second issue concerns the release of Palestinian prisoners from Israeli prisons where Israel is demanding a veto I believe on 65 names of prisoners that Hamas would like to release from those serving life sentences for killing Israelis those two issues are not resolved I think that the Americans the qataris and the Egyptians are trying to resolve them last night the talks were between the Hamas delegation and the Qatari prime minister and the minister of muhabat the minister of intelligence from Egypt but still the talks seem to not be reaching their conclusion yeah I mean it's been 11 months getting on for a year of talks I mean what is there to show for the diplomacy and the Diplomatic efforts of these last very little in fact it shows a lot of effort on the part of the mediators and reluctance on the part of the two antagonists um as an Israeli I point to the government of Israel who has the responsibility to return the hostages home and it seems quite evident to many of us in Israel that prime minister Netanyahu is not interested in making a deal is not interested in ending the war he wants to prolong the war war in order to along his own political position as the prime minister of Israel and and that seems to be where we're stuck here in Israel at least from the Israel point of view and I think this is the overriding view of the majority of Israelis who want to deal now to bring the hostages home even at the cost of ending the war in a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza so as you say I mean Benjamin Netanyahu under intense domestic pressure intense International pressure and yet you say not interested in Striking a deal why well Natan understands that when this war ends we are probably going to head to new elections that he will not be elected prime minister he will be forced to establish the national Commission of inquiry to determine what happened on October 7th what led up to October 7th and the dysfunctional nature of his government since October 7th and he is the head of the government he cannot Escape responsibility he's the longest serving prime minister in Israel he has been on office almost completely the full time since 2009 he's responsible for the policies that empowered Hamas and weakened the Palestinian Authority and delegitimized any possibility of an Israeli Palestinian peace based on the two-state solution he has to pay for that he will go down in history as the worst leader that the Jewish people have ever had and he knows that so he's trying to have his ultimate Victory to have the head of yir the Hamas leader in Gaza and to say that we defeated Hamas once and for all I mean even before October the 7th Israeli Society was deeply divided there were huge protests on the streets on a pretty regular basis um I'm just curious as to whether or not Benjamin Netanyahu is feeling more pressure now than perhaps at any time since October the 7th not least with the deaths of those hostages announced just a couple of days ago my my assessment is I belief is that he is very detached from the reality of the Israeli people people today he's surrounded by yes men who tell him what he wants to hear he doesn't hear the opinion of the people in the street he boxes himself in cages you would not believe the amount of police that surround His home in Jerusalem when there are demonstrations now almost every night against him he never sees it he never meets it he never hears it he's protected in a kind of cocoon that keeps him isolated and detached from the people he organizes press conferences which are not really press conferences he organizes photoshops with people who support him and he believes that his base which is pretty solid it's around 25 to 30% of the public will keep him in office forever but that's not the reality of Israel today um he was probably watching the US presidential debate on Tuesday night as millions of other people were uh what do you think his reading is of how events in Washington could unfold and therefore what sort of an impact that might have have on his policy uh with regards to the war in Gaza well I think bamin nut is clearly a supporter of Donald Trump and Donald Trump failed in this debate to impress the American people or the people of the world that he would be the next president of the United States whereas kamla Harris not only won the debate knock out she also spoke the magic words of freedom and Liberation for the Palestinian people and self-determination which is the code word for a Palestinian State and while American presidents have talked about the two-state solution I think this was the most explicit comment by a candidate for the United States presidency of the Palestinian state that needs to be established next to Israel in order to protect Israel in the region and enable Israel to live in peace with the entire region I think we all know that that in order to defeat Hamas and the extremist in Israel we need to make the two-state solution real and it seems that kamla Harris is much more intent on making that happen if she becomes president of the United States and that must worry netan a lot because he's done everything in his power to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state next to Israel since 2009 and in her capacity as as vice president what sort of gestures have we seen from camela Harris what struck you with regards to what she's said and done or not said and not done when it comes to this issue of of of the of the war in Gaza right well I don't think she's had very much impact um we've seen President Biden being the president who supported Israel more than any president in the history of the relationship between Israel and the United States and of course the United States has been fueling the war in Gaza nonstop which certainly doesn't uh improve the standing of the United States in the entire Middle East and as vice president she has not played a dominant role other than making speeches about supporting Israel's right to defend itself which he did in the debate as well but I think as a candidate for president she's Freer to go beyond the traditional us positions and hopefully if and when she does become president the United States she will lead our region into a new peace process that will be based in the region where we talk about a new architecture for regional security stability Economic Development dealing with climate change and it will involve all the countries in the region including Saudi Arabia in this mix once we're on the path to creating a real two-state solution but just going back to what you were saying a minute ago about how Benjamin Netanyahu lives in something of a cocoon where he's detached from perhaps the reality of what's happening on the streets is he detached as well from what's being said in the corridors of power in places like Washington where it really does matter for him and and what do you think uh camela Harris or whoever the next president of the United States Donald Trump could or might say to him uh to Benjamin nahu to make him listen uh and make him perhaps come to the negotiating table or at least uh do something towards bringing about a conclusion to that 11-month long War right well we don't really know what's said behind closed doors but what we do see is what's in the open and we saw bamin n received in the US Congress and the US capital by the members of the US government and the Congress um nany has this impression that the American people behind him and behind Israel in his war against Iran and radicalism and radical Islam and against Hamas um I'm not sure that he perceives the United States is is not supporting him in his policies again we don't know what said behind closed doors but we should also recognize that the United States wields an enormous amount of Power Visa Israel that's apparently not used the US diplomatic toolbox with regard to Israel is not filled with the carrots of the billions of dollars that it gives to the to the state of Israel in weapons and financial support but it's also political support which are carrots and sticks the US veto in the security Council it's the rearming of Israel that enables it to drop more bombs on Gaza I think the United States should tell Israel that with regard to a possible attack by Iran or by hisbah the United States has your back but we will no longer support this war in Gaza we want it to end and I think the United States could be a lot more forceful with regard to Israel having to end the war there should not be a question here too many innocent people have died too much Destruction has happened too much threat to the security of the region and the world is there because of this conflict and the United States needs to use its power whether it's kamla Harris or Donald Trump the next president of the United States it should not be tolerated to enable Israel and the Palestinians to continue to endanger the security of the world Gan we're almost out of time just before I let you go just very briefly could you tell us a tiny bit about what you do in your capacity uh as a negotiator a back Channel negotiator because I gather you are in this privileged position of having dialogue with with with all parties here including with Hamas just tell us a tiny bit about that right well very briefly I was approached by families of hostages who asked me to see if I could find a better way to negotiate with Hamas and find a better deal and I asked leaders in Hamas if they were willing to make a deal which would end the war in 3 weeks Israel would withdraw from Gaza they would release 101 of the Israeli hostages that they hold and there would be an agreed upon release of Palestinian prisons from the Israeli prisons and the answer I got was positive I transmitted this to the qataris and the Egyptians and the Americans and then I went public with it last week and I was in in the news Every Day in Israel and around the world um and now it's really in the hands of the decision makers and the officials to see if they can pick this up my talks with Hamas over the last days have reconfirmed that they would support this a a plan this proposal they're not coming out with it which disappoints me greatly I think they should I think they should announce it but they also have their relationships with the qataris and the Egyptians and they don't want to change course in the middle that the Egyptians and the Americans and the qataris are working so hard on but this is the position that seem they seem willing to accept I have com transmitted this to a number of very influential Israelis and we're trying to see how we can impose this on the Israeli Prime Minister and on the Israeli body politic to know that there is an option to end the war in 3 weeks and bring all the isra hostages home thank you so much for taking the time to speak to us really appreciate that fascinating insights there gersan Basin uh the Middle East director of the international communities organization thank you very much [Music] indeed let's go into more detail and find out where we are with regards to the Diplomatic efforts to bring about an end to the war in Gaza joining us now is the former deputy May of Jerusalem and special Envoy for the foreign Ministry in Israel Flur Hassan Nahum thank you very much indeed for taking the time to speak to us we're also joined by the Palestinian ambassador to Denmark Manuel hassassian thank you so much to you as well for joining us Ambassador um thank you Hamas has a delegation in Doha right now they're talking about the ceasefire and hostage release deal that's been talked about for several months I'd like to find out what's new and where we are with regards to the talks right now Ambassador let me start with you what's your understanding well my understanding is basically that there has been a lot of procrastination by the Israeli side especially Netanyahu who is not willing basically to go ahead with this deal for the simple fact that he wants to perpetuate you know this this conflict further and further uh by creating new facts on the ground and by trying uh basically uh to reach an agreement after the US elections you know where he assumes that maybe Trump will win the elections and that will be on his side and by the proc procrastination process he's trying to remain in power as much as he can so we know from our you know sources that almost 90% of the deal has been agreed upon by the by both parties and that there are certain you know uh things that are not still quite clear the Americans are trying to put some efforts in trying you know to mend the differences let alone our um Arab interlocutors uh that are striving basically to reach you know a certain kind of AED between the two parties so as you know uh the pain and the suffering of the Palestinian people will will stop and uh we're pushing for this ceasefire because uh from a humanitarian perspective and from the detriments of this genocide on our innocent people you know is something that is abhorent and should be stopped you know where the International Community also is putting a lot of pressure on Israel to accept the deal let alone you know uh the um the relatives of the hostages are also putting pressures inside Israel by demonstrating every day you know against Netanyahu and it seems nothing is being budged by Netanyahu really to make this deal happen Okay FL I have to turn to you FL Hassan Nahum in Jerusalem how much of what Ambassador hassassian just said there would you say you agreed with well very little let's start with this on October 6th we had a cease fire with Hamas from the previous war um Israel left the Gaza Strip in 2005 along the way when Hamas took over and a brutal coup killed a lot of Ambassador hassassian friends from the Palestinian Authority from fatak and have been a brutal dictatorship to their people instead of spending all of the aid that the world has given them creating a terror base around 700 kilometers of Terror tunnels around their country and very little opportunity for their people so let's start with who's to blame for this whole thing to begin with now we have on the 7th October a horrible horrible Massacre that takes 250 hostages including little children there's still two little babies left in Gaza we have zero proof of life for anybody and we have an ex ution a brutal execution of six hostages only a week ago now since January Hamas has been offered five different ceasefire deals and even secretary blinken has said that the owners has always been on Kamas and Hamas have been the party that has not accepted very generous deals from Israel now in the last few weeks there was another deal on the table that Netanyahu insisted included Israel staying on the Philadelphia Corridor because that is where all the arms the arms that killed 1200 people and that Massacre the arms that are used to not just subjugate their own population but throw rockets at Israel those arms are all coming through these Egyptian tunnels are there ways around it I want to believe so I am really believe that we have to do everything in our power to bring those hostages home it is crucial not just because those families are waiting for those innocent people to come home but because it has to be something that Israel takes responsibility for to bring our hostages home so I pray like with every Israeli that this deal goes through and that Hamas it's not Israeli government it's Hamas that is stopping it because ultimately we are negotiating with terrorists and FL I just want to pick up on one of the points that Ambassador hassim made just there with regards to Prime Minister Netanyahu uh in a way procrastinating because it's in his political interest and his the interest of his political survival to do so and that was an issue that was picked up on just before we cross to you by Gerson Basin who is the Middle East director for the international communities organization how do you respond to that particular charge Flo look I want to believe that the leaders of our country are doing the best for our countries if he has political considerations I don't know I can't speak for netan but I can tell you that the people in the government that I know uh the hostage negotiators that I've been speaking to the military leaders that I've been speaking to everybody's doing everything in their power to bring those hostages home and I pray to God I pray to God listen ultimately Kamas has brought this on its own people this is not a war Israel wanted it's not a war Israel started we left the Gaza Strip in 2005 with a hope that this may be the pilot to a future pilot inian State and look what they did with it they could have built Dubai and look what they built with that that is not Israel's fault and I think the problem of this conflict is that unfortunately the Palestinian leadership be it the PA fatak oramas have never actually gone through any type of introspection or taken responsibility or Agency for anything and every peace deal that they've ever rejected Ambassador hassassin I have to allow you to respond to those comments yes first of all this conflict which I consider to be an epistemic conflict did not start on October 7 it started since 1948 and you have been living under occupation and you have the right to resist this occupation we had the also agreement which turned out to be a dismal failure because the United States was not an anos spoker of peace and this is the end result of it building more settlements trying yes yes Israel would withdrew in 2005 from Gaza but Israel besieged Gaza for the last 17 years by land air and sea and the conflict today is a breach with Egypt on the Philadelphia control which Natan is insisting that he has to stay there and occupy it and what have you so I believe that what uh your guest is saying is looking at the the glass as half empty and not as half full for the simple fact that she is putting the honors on the Palestinian Authority that has been so far you know uh dubbed as a traitor because of its collaborative on security matters with Israel and now they are trying basically to attack you know the West Bank through the settlers with the IDF you know trying to protect them the end result of this is that you know Israel that once the geography and not the demography of the Palestinians and you have seen many of the Palestinians have been incarcerated killed now more than 700 in the West Bank and you know Janine has been bulldozed to B has been BOS and the continuation of this aggression and onsl on the Palestinian people on the West Bank let alone East Jerusalem and Gaza is a clear message from this extreme government in Israel that they don't want APC they don't want a two-state solution they just want to have the land without the people Flur what is your response to that and I know from uh looking at your your Twitter feed uh that perhaps you'll disagree with that comment that uh what happened on October the 7th uh was was an event in isolation well I think he's right about one thing uh the source of the problem is 1948 and this is really the Crux of the conflict that nobody wants to face you see the conflict exists not because there isn't a Palestinian State the conflict exists because there's a Jewish state that the Palestinian leadership have never accepted and this is why they've rejected five different offers for a two-state solution because their interest has never been to build a state you wouldn't even know what it would look like that state they can't even build State institutions because the focus has always been in destroying the state of Israel so it doesn't matter what land compromises you give in 1947 there was a two-state solution offered they said no in Oslo there was a two-state solution offered they said no in 2001 again with three quarters of the Old City My City here in Jerusalem offered to Arafat he said no and started a bloody intifada and then we left Gaza in 2005 and in 2009 PUD omed also offered an even more generous deal so the question is why do they keep saying no and so we can't really think uh anymore that this conflict is about land this conflict is not about land this conflict is about ideology this conflict is about the fact that the Palestinian leadership and they have H henceforth brainwash their people they don't teach them in schools that one day we're going to have a peaceful two-state Solutions no they teach children in schools that one day everybody's going to have the right of return from the river to the Sea it's in the Poetry it's in the songs it's in the media and so nothing no territorial compromise will ever be good enough because everything that they hope for is in fact the removal of the Jewish people from our ancestral Homeland and so whatever Ambassador hassassian says yes he's right about one thing the core of this conflict is 48 the core of this conflict is the existence of Israel in whatever land borders you want to talk about okay so if you both agree that this is a highly historic conflict goes back decades to the 1940s as you say something else you might agree on and I'd like to put this to you Ambassador hassian is that the idea of a two-state solution when you have a war raging in Gaza a massive uptick in violence in the West Bank is that a two-state solution is probably a more distant Prospect than it's been at any time in In Living memory that was the ideology and the strategy of Mr Nan to kill the entire o of pce process and he managed to kill it because if you go back to the two-state solution when we agreed and signed at the uh White House loan uh back in 1994 we have agreed that you know we there will be a withdrawal of the Israelis basically from the occupied territories of the West Bank Gaza and East Jerusalem and by 1999 we could have declared our independent state living side by side democratically with Israel what happened with the Osa agreement when Netanyahu came to power in 1996 he started you know the building of settlements the number of settlers quadruple the number of settlements triple and we started seeing facts on the ground changing and by the end we have witnessed a failure in Camp David on the issue of right of return and the issue of the sovereignty uh on Jerusalem and the second in broke out and Hell broke loose Shon withdrew unilaterally in 2005 from Gaza besieged it by land air and force and this is where we ended now the Palestinians have a agreed after so many years the PLO to accept political accommodation as the only plausible solution to this conflict and we have signed the oso Accords you know with the Israeli sign it's so unfortunate that prime minister Ravin was assassinated he was a true and genuine to my belief as as as as uh representing Israel and believing in ultimately the two-state solution but when Netanyahu came with the extreme right-wing government you know following this is a prime minister who has been there for 13 years with the same ideology he's not budging one inch and what is left today of the West Bank to talk about the two State Solutions it became a land a land with a Swiss cheese no Geographic contiguity whatsoever no Contours of this uh West Bank that could be you know seeded to Gaza along with East Jerusalem to have an independent Palestinian state that could be you know uh uh really a genuine State you know with all borders you know with Israel controlled and and monitored by the International Community who haven't seen these things developing except you know all the time putting the owns on the Palestinians that they refuse everything that they are given to them look what are the Israelis giving to us now a war 41,000 people have been killed 100,000 have been in and you know you know the statistics I don't need to go into that rhetoric because the International Community have been seeing it and it is widely on television where is the intention of this government in also trying to weaken the Palestinian Authority the only pragmatic you know Authority that is willing to sit and negotiate a two-state deal with with the state of Isel they are withholding our tax revenues they are weakening you know the pales Ian Authority that are creating you know incidents on the ground in the West Bank in order to instigate you know our uh uh uh Security Forces to be engaged with is and this is what they want they are letting the settlers you know with the gunhoo mentality to attack you know our Villages and and cities in the West Bank ER after that you know Natan is willing also to escalate in northern part of Palestine with hisbah and what have you and this is you know he wants the Americans to be engaged in the regional war and this is the end result okay you know it's destruction lack of security this is what is going to be encountered by the people in the Middle East it's not only the Palestinians The Saga will continue to expand this regional conflict into something that will be beyond control of the International Community unfortunately ambass you made lots of important points there I'd like to pick up on this issue of the building of settlements and put that to Flur I mean how do you reconcile the building of settlements with an eventual two-state solution it does seem quite a difficult set of priorities to reconcile isn't it well I want to respond because it seems like the ambassador's a bit confused about dates because when Oslo was offered it was Ehud Barak who was the Prime Minister and it was yaser Arafat who instead of either renegotiating wasn't happy with the terms either either I didn't interrupt Ambassador so please have the courtesy to wait for me 2000 I will not I will sorry I will not be interrupted if if you'd like me to talk then I'll talk no no I don't want to interrupt you saying the agreement was signed with Barack aood Barack in 2000 offered everything that the Palestinian leadership said it want that's something else okay no it's the same because you keep blaming netan for everything and I'm asking you why yaser Arafat turned around and created a bloody second intifada that killed thousands of people in the streets of my city in Jews and Arabs after 2001 after the Oslo Accords that was not killed by Netanyahu it was killed by yaser Arafat and it's not me saying it it's President Clinton saying it who was there and so you can't argue with that and then in 2009 offered it once again and this time it was mahm who said no to a peaceful solution so it's very easy it's very easy to blame Netanyahu for everything and it's much harder to take responsibility for mistakes and for throwing your people under the bus again and again and again all right let's let's let Ambassador hassin uh answer that and then I really want to come back to you on that question about settlement so go ahead Ambassador well actually two issues that went wrong in Camp David in the year 2000 one the question of right of fre was not accepted by Barat and second question is the question of sovereignty over okay these two issues were not accepted byat it was imposed you know by the by of course a Barak and the Americans you know wanted really to sell this issue to Arafat whom he couldn't you know at that time accept these be part and celebrating years of a Palestinian state right now we could be celebrating 24 years of a Palestinian state right now and in said look where we are this is this is this is you you have said what you have said and I'm trying to answer why the Palestinians have not accepted the conditions of bar don't and agree David the two issues that have been you know imposed on us and it was possible because we don't have mandate to give Haram Shar to you by 1.8 billion Muslims you have to know that and we cannot compromise our our people that have been forcefully dipor in 1948 by the right of return so what do you want or the temple administered by thean isues not being you know involved stop interrupting me please listen to what I'm saying you are not listening you just want to push netanyahu's agenda we're trying to tell you that natany has been procrastinating and he has not been Cooperative in negotiations tell me did Netanyahu meet president uh Abbas in any of these meetings and when all met with President Abbas we looked at the conditions he was an ongoing exit prime minister who did not have the Mandate really to go ahead with this formula with president with President Abbas that's why it did not work out he was not a prime minister who was entrenched in his position to make such a concession it was something that was good to look into and to come up with an agreement but what happened prime minister olmer left office this is what happened we're not we're not criticizing what and president Abbas have agreed upon it was something that could be a TR towards a good understanding of achieving a two solution okay flare Hass how do you respond again he hasn't explained to me why Arafat decided to start a bloody in instead of going back to the table and keep renegotiating this is not a leadership that has ever really put itself put its people uh and its interest of its people there's always ways to come to compromises and arrangements and to start a second inter part instead of renegotiating is to me Arafat was not a leader that actually really did want to bring a state for his people and that's really the core of the conflict let's return to the let's return to the present day because I don't believe this conflict is territorial I don't believe this conflict is territorial well let let me pick up on that let's return to the present day I wanted to ask you FL I wanted to ask you about I wanted to ask you about those comments made by Ambassador hassassin a moment ago he described the West Bank as being a Swiss cheese uh of of isolated geographical called patches that does not sound does it conducive to a future Palestinian State how how would you respond to that first of all let's let's put the facts straight um the according to Oslo Judea and Samaria as we call the West Bank because it's our ancestral Homeland is divided into area a b and c the Palestinian Authority has autonomy over area a and most autonomy over over area B and what's really up for grabs or what's really up for negotiations is area C 94% of the Palestinian population live between areas A and B and so what we're talking about is 6% 8% of the Palestinian population in area C now I'm always always I think the majority of Israelis would be very happy uh for some type of territorial compromise if they actually thought it was going to bring us peace and people were going to not going to be contined to be killed and massacred but look at the Precedence that we have we left Gaza in 2005 and we have a Hamas we we uh we did Oslo and we have terror cells coming out of the Palestinian territories so really what incentive is there for Israel to do any territorial compromises and all we're getting is more Bloodshed and killing and terrorism okay let's go back to what's happening in in the negotiations just we're in we're about to come to the end I just if you don't mind we close to the end of the of the program I'd just like to kind of look forwards a little bit and start looking at what might be achieved diplomatically with regards to a resolution to the situation in Gaza um I think a lot of disappointment with the lack of results from the negotiations up until this point probably on all sides um Ambassador the qataris and the Egyptians are brokering here uh and we haven't got a ceasefire we have only had one ceasefire since the conflict began 11 months ago do you think a change of negotiators Might result in perhaps some new momentum into the Diplomatic efforts uh just before answering that I just want to give a certain kind of an information which is important 61% is the area SE totally controlled by Israel 37% is the area B which is controlled by Israelis and Palestinians and only 12% which are the major cities the six cities where Palestinians have full Authority I just wanted to make this remark concerning you know the negotiations I think uh uh uh there should be more involvement by the United Nations in these negotiations it's not enough to have Qatar Egypt uh as as as mediators along with the United States I think the United Nations should be an added factor to bring you know the the parties towards more uh achieving you know a plausible solution and you know in negotiations people start with maximalist position and they end up with optimal uh acceptance of the facts so nobody should uh uh try to maximize in any kind of negotiations concessions should be made on both sides in order to reach an agreement and in order to reach an agreement we need you know uh objective bystanders you know to this issue where you know both parties that are negotiating should be controlled by the parameters that are put by the interlocutors to help in trying to bring the two parties to an agreement as soon as possible because as you can see hundreds of people are being killed and the incessant you know genocide is continuing so we don't want anybody to die anymore it's enough we need humanitarian assistance we need to bring a hold to this war and try to see how we can negotiate the day after this is what our wish is basically and we don't see it from the Israeli side sorry I mean all our sources that are telling us nanyu is not he wants to flatten completely Gaza the West Bank and whatever and then he might consider to get back to the negotiating to get his hostages back okay Ambassador I gave you the first word I'd like to give Flur the last word of this discussion could I just ask you to respond to what's been said and also just tell us where you see things heading to from here with regards to the Diplomatic efforts I repeat we didn't want this war there's no genocide going on this is Israel trying to defend itself and making sure that the terrorist that has made it part of its Charter It's Made It part of its Charter the entire destruction not just of the state of Israel but of all the Jews around the world as part of their Charter we cannot let an enemy which is an existential enemy stay on his feet after a war We Didn't Start we want our hostage at home we want peace we've always wanted peace Israel wants to exist in peace we' tried tried to have by controlling the try to have peace with the Palestinian leadership and they haven't been brave enough to do one thing just accept that Israel is here and it's not going away the minute they accept in everything in the education system in the Liturgy in the media in everything the minute they accepted we're not going away that is the beginning for a longlasting peace and we all pray for that in Israel okay former deputy mayor of Jerusalem and special Envoy for trade and Innovation Flur Hass whom you have had the last word and thank you very much indeed to the Palestinian ambassador to Denmark Manuel hassassian thank you very much indeed for you coming up in just a moment we'll have the latest from the US elections and I'll be joined by the former deputy assistant Secretary of Defense during the Obama Administration David sedney that's right after this from the White House to Gaza heave to Beijing election economics and the environment compete with conflicts and other complex issues for our attention in an age of fake news deep fake and artificial intelligence they've got to have a vote in a say it's important to look beyond the loudest voice to understand the truth from newsmakers to groundbreakers my campaign is going very well presidents Prime Ministers princes and peacemakers and cultural taste makers as Arabs as middle Easter were too emotional join me on the risan show for empowering [Music] conversation if former US president Donald Trump wins back the white house he's going to face an intre packed full of geopolitical challenges so what could his America First agenda mean for foreign policy and how might his running mate JD evance sway or support Trump's approach during a second term in office our very own Benji Hyer went to find out more the world has changed since Donald Trump first became commanderin-chief with conflicts flaring in Europe and the Middle East yet the former president's nationalist foreign policy has largely remained the same picking a likeminded running mate in Ohio senator jdance who now shares much of Trump's world view take Ukraine Donald Trump claims he'd be able to solve the conflict in a single day but at what cost to the West both he and JD Vance have at points opposed further military aid to Kiev and both have hit out at NATO allies for not paying their fair share of Defense yes NATO is going to be stronger because of its own arms because of its own investment um the question is is that going to happen fast enough uh in case Trump says something so irresponsible uh that leads to to testing of lines before Europe is so sufficiently armed that it can in fact defend every inch from the first moment JD Vance says the US needs to Pivot its focus and budget should instead prioritize China as a way of Defending America and its industry we will protect the wages of American workers and stop the Chinese Communist Party from building their middle class on the backs of American citizens Donald Trump promises is to get tough on China hinting he' hit Chinese Goods with tariffs in excess of 60% sentiment around trade with China just China in general in Washington these days is very hawkish and so I think you'd see a lot of support uh for this increase of tariffs then there's the Middle East and the war in Gaza Trump and Vance are staunchly pro- Israel but they're also partial to a deal best exemplified by the Abraham Accords back in 2020 Gulf and other states recognizing the Jewish homeland for the first time and that strategy of striking deals on several fronts in a way frankly to favor American interest above all else that could be a key feature of a trump fance Administration if they win the White House come November Benji hire Al Arabia English Washington [Music] so in this the first and perhaps only debate before the presidential election China the war in Gaza the war in Ukraine and the exit from Afghanistan all came under discussion during that debate for more we're joined now by the former deputy assistant Secretary of Defense during the Obama Administration David sedney very warm welcome to you David and the chair of Republicans overseas Greg snon thank you very much indeed to both of you neither of the two cand Cates unknown entities by any means uh but before the debate a lot of people have been saying they didn't feel like they knew Cala Harris all that well and when it comes to foreign policy perhaps even less so do you feel like you got to know more about what she stands for with regards to foreign policy than you did uh before that debate let me put that to you first of all uh Greg not really I mean I I think she talked a lot in in sort of banalities and and T you know in platitudes but not really specifics you know so I think there's still a lot of mystery there and I think she was very skillful at avoiding any you know sort of specific or intense policy discussions she kind of kicked everything back to you know to president Trump you know triggering I think I think in many ways he took the bait but it was a very skillful way to avoid policy I don't think a lot of Americans or undecideds anyway know much more about Cala Harris than they did two days ago okay David what are your thoughts with regards to what more we found out about Harris and also tell me uh what it would mean for foreign policy uh for the United States to have another Trump term I I maybe I watched a different debate because I saw a very strong leader likee leadership capable KLA Harris the biggest difference of course was on Ukraine uh vice president Harris made clear that under her Administration we would continue to support Ukraine continue to support president zalinsky and continue to provide arms to the uh to the ukrainians to repel the Russian invasion um president Trump on the other hand refused to really comment about anything except the sort of absurd comment that he would solve the problem as as soon as he became president-elect he'd sit down with the two and just get some kind of agreement that as I said that's really absurd uh he made a lot of absurd comments and that was probably one of the one of the wackiest ones uh so that was a big difference uh on policy presid vice president Harris will continue to support Ukraine um former president Trump will surrender to Putin that's I think pretty clear another area where I think you saw some difference important difference really uh was on the issue of Gaza and Palestine while both said they supported Israel vice president Harris made clear that she is concerned about PL to the Palestinians she wants to see um greater humanitarian Aid she wants to see less pal alans killed while on the other hand president Trump made clear that he supports Israel and doesn't really care about the Palestinians so those are two major areas I think on China the two candidates are pretty close uh but um and then finally the area of support for alliances president Trump made his sort of again sort of silly claim that while he was President he got the people to pay more for nato in fact all countries did was they continued to pay what they had promised to pay under Obama he didn't really get any more money and um play this idea that somehow people in n were getting a free ride in fact the native countries are supporting very heavily Ukraine and uh that's an area where again Trump made a misstatement of fact so I saw thought you saw a great deal of difference but I also would say at the end foreign policy is not something uh many Americans vote on uh I agree that there are not that many undecideds and foreign policy is unlikely to be a big issue so I would say uh you saw some differences but what difference that will make on Election Day I think is very questionable sure I'd like to ask you Greg I mean um Donald Trump made mention of Afghanistan and the US withdrawal uh from Afghanistan which I think he said words to the effect that it was a disgrace for the United States I just wonder what Donald Trump would have done different what you think he'd have done differently and indeed why he didn't do that different thing when he was the president yeah I'm not sure he would advocate for staying because he was the one who who you know made the announcement decided to to leave Afghanistan but I think with Mike Pompeo in the seat as Secretary of State they were very deliberate and very cautious about making sure that the the afghanis hit certain Milestones that did we all you know had to to approve the different steps of the withdrawal I'm I'm sure they would not have just given up Bagram Air Force Base I I think the consensus is you know again both Trump and Biden wanted to get out of Afghanistan there's two different ways to how to accompl Lish that and here in the UK there was a great suspicion of Biden after that botched withdrawal because he wasn't taking Boris Johnson's phone call when when uh Boris was prime minister uh you know clearly that was a disaster and I think that's the consensus here in Europe is that was just a horrible moment and it's really established the Biden Administration uh at least in perception here in Europe as weak and that's why one of the reasons we saw U you know Russia invade Ukraine and and and Hamas da Israel these are these were you know sort of weak moments for America besides the appeasement to Iran and and sort of overall work weak foreign policy or or general appeasement both with sanctions on Iran as well as the assault on the American Energy sector which really helped Putin and the Saudis and Venezuela and Iran make considerable amounts of money with elevated oil prices and then we you know we found Jake Sullivan going to Moscow beg Putin to pump more oil this is of course before the invasion of Ukraine going to Venezuela asking them to pump more and and you know going to Saudi and Biden went to Saudi T Riad and begged NBS to pump more oil these are things that with you know in addition to foreign policy the assault on the American Energy sector has surely not helped you know our our position in the world in the last over the last three and a half years just picking up on what Greg was saying there David I mean to what extent would you say that what he described there as a b watched withdrawal from Afghanistan and and Donald Trump said something similar in fact a lot of people said something quite similar how damaging do you think that was to the Biden administration's sort of overall perception and brand viewed from the outside it was very damaging uh it was certainly the the low point of the Biden presidency and but there's no evidence that President Trump would have done any better in fact as pres vice president Caris pointed out in the debate the problem here was the surrender agreement uh that president Trump agreed to and this again rather silly absurd idea of inviting the tole bond to Camp David um which is really a ridiculous bestow of status upon the Taliban um it was a horrible agreement uh that President Trump approved uh Secretary State Pompeo did a lousy job um the actual agreement was negotiated by their special Envoy Z halad who is now I think roundly condemned by people throughout the Afghan world as having a horrible disservice to the Afghan people uh so uh the basis for all the disaster of the August 2021 was the even worse surrender agreement signed off on by Vi by President Trump and by Secretary of State Pompeo uh so there's a lot of blame to go around and I think U the uh statement that that Pro led to a perception of weakness on the unit on the part of the United States is probably true but what the what this Administration has done since then with the very active efforts of Vice President Harris who has visited Ukraine I think five times or met met zinsky five times and has been very clear of her strong support that has reversed that no longer do Russia and China worry about the United States not supporting its friends and allies now they see us doing a very aggressive job of working to make sure that Russian aggression is stopped in Ukraine it doesn't spread to Europe and Beyond Americans don't want to have Russian troops invading the us but that the path president former president Trump would set us on by his weakness in dealing with Putin yeah I just want to ask you Greg with regards to uh America's allies around the world I mean I think some some of them have almost made no secret of the fact that they don't relish the idea of another Trump term in office uh interesting that Donald Trump singled out Hungary as being a key backer and a key Ally uh of him during that debate but I'm just thinking to myself of all the world leaders he could have chosen why do think he chose the leader of a relatively small uh Eastern European country with a population of just 9 million couldn't he have found a stronger endorsement I I think so I I totally agree with you Tom and I thought that was a mistake of all the leaders in the world it doesn't mean I'm condemning uh you know the Hungary the the Hungarian leader uh Orban but you know that was probably a misstep I I thought you know president Trump had several missteps during during the debate that was perhaps one of them but but I think that if you look at the way Trump handled our allies and our friends when he was president you know he might have said clumsy things and I think of many diplomats around the world find his his delivery you know sometimes uh shall we say unfiltered and that makes people uncomfortable but on the other hand if you look at what he actually did you know he did insist and there was response and and the Diplomatic crowd here in Europe especially in the UK they actually appreciate that he pushed the allly I to or the NATO allies to spend more on defense and hit their 2% targets yes Obama might have had those targets or knew of those targets but Trump is the one who went especially in Germany in 2018 really shook the tree and and a lot of diplomatics diplomats here they might not not like his tone but they appreciate that now 21 countries in NATO are are hitting the 2% targets the challenge is that France the biggest economies besides the UK France Germany Spain they are not hitting those targets they are they are anemic low and so that's a challenge but I also think that President Trump did a fantastic job in the Middle East in terms of supporting our friends and allies and and demonstrating some strength against Iran with the sanctions on oil exports for Iran I think that was well appreciated by the the Arab countries as well as Israel so that worked the Arab Arab Accords actually work so I think the perception of trump from from many around the world is that he he is unfiltered he's makes things uncomfortable but in terms of the results and the outcomes they miss they might not miss Trump but they miss they miss peace and prosperity from his administration and they now are in a much more dangerous world yeah and and Greg actually in Japan they had a foreign minister some years back by the name of Toshi mitsu motegi and they dubbed him the Trump Whisperer uh it suggests there's an art to dealing with Donald Trump if you're a foreign leader or a foreign Diplomat what is that art I think it's just being honest with him you know there there's there's so much I don't think he's good he's not a politician you know he's not good at these these diplomatic languages and and you know beating around the bush and going through formalities and sometimes that hurts him you know I know on his State visit here to the UK he really embraced it he really loved it he has a great had a great relationship with the queen but a great relationship with the government here the the Tories the the problem is in other instan is you know he tends to make people feel really uncomfortable he did that in Germany but ultimately he was right he was right about German dependence on natural gas from Russian Russia he was very very critical in the the buildup in Ukraine he was the first one the first president uh in the last few generations to send lethal weapons to to Ukraine he sent the ja Javelin missiles for example while Obama and Biden were sending non-lethal weapons or non-lethal material excuse me you know to an Airbase in Poland because they didn't want to offend Putin they were shipping it in commercial trucks from from the US Airbase in Poland down to Kei you know uh Trump got in and started sending lethal material so he's he's not one to surrender to to Putin he's been very very aggressive he he put sanctions on the nordstream to pipeline while while shutting down pipelines in the United States so I think I think a lot of our partners miss the strength of trump and the fact that he was supporting the allies and and look he's not going to say the right things all the time but they missed the peace and prosperity of 2019 that's for sure David which of um America's allies do you think are perhaps least uh relishing the idea that Donald Trump might come back into the uh the White House say all the the countries where democracy freedom freedom elections any leader of a country like that is really concerned about appearance of Donald Trump the country leaders that like him like Mr Orban are authoritarian or Proto authoritarian leaders um they're the ones that they like Kim Jong-un is another one of Trump's buddies uh TR Trump likes people who are authoritarian he likes people who don't have to face elections he likes people who are abusive to those who disagree with them in their own internal areas and he doesn't like countries uh that are where people are freely elected and he's made that clear over and over again I do need to correct a couple misstatements by my counterpart here according to the latest statistics I'm looking at them right now Germany spends 2.12% of its GDP on uh defense um so he said German spending remains AIC it's actually over the 2% and uh since I was part of the Obama Administration I can tell you we worked very hard to get those countries to go up to 2% and over and we had a plan agreed with those countries to get them over 2% they followed through on their commitments to President Obama additional monies were not gotten by Trump that is a false statement yes additional monies were were spent but those were already planned before Trump was elected so he didn't get any more he just got what Obama had already gotten already been promised to Obama uh so NATO countries um most importantly are afraid that Trump will surrender to Putin and he made it pretty clear in the debate that he was prepared to surrender to Putin and NATO countries don't want Russian troops moving into Ukraine moving closer to their borders they don't want Ukraine to be the first Domino that falls with the Baltic snck and the Eastern European countries taken over again you have to remember that President Putin is one who has said that the Soviet the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy on the in the history of the world um he believes that a reconstituted Soviet Union with it dominance over Eastern Europe and holding Western Europe uh in its its thrw through its threat of conventional forces and nuclear forces that's what Putin wants and that's what president Trump is prepared to accept he's prepared to pull out of our Japanese and Korean alliances uh and give that part of the world to China president Trump is weak on National Defense he's weak on National Security and people see him as weak and finally president Trump is a politician and has been a politician I think this is his fourth or fifth Run for the presidency he is nothing but a politician the statement that he's not a politician is made because people don't like the word politi but president Trump is a real politician vice president Harris is a prosecutor and she prosecuted former president Trump and he crumbled in the face of her attack for strong positions in the debate just as he crumbles whenever he meets anybody strong president Trump is weak and everybody knows it and Greg let me turn to you I mean feel free to pick up on any of those points I'd also like to specifically put to you the point that emerged subsequent to the debate that in fact what Donald Trump said about a single telephone call to the Kremlin fixing the situation in Ukraine wasn't actually true they said it wouldn't be fixed with a telephone call uh do you think perhaps Donald Trump has rather overestimated the extent of his influence on President Putin and the the the the the degree uh to which they actually have a a working friendship slash relationship well I mean the the argument you know you sometimes have to keep your your friends close but your enemies closer look um Trump is not afraid to engage with our adversaries that's and that's the case I think with all good presidents you must you know you have the phone next you know the phone of the Kremlin but but I think that he is he gets along very well with many democrac de democracies maybe not everybody I don't think uh Justin Trudeau will be you know Trump's best friend but and he's an author an authoritarian so you know I don't think it's just the authoritarians that get along with Trump and and the you know and because again you know Biden seems to be quite chummy with Justin Trudeau so but here here in the UK you know the the especially in the when the conservatives were in power which is you know only until a few months ago there was a great working relationship with Trump in those years not to say that it wasn't decent with ob with Biden but there surely was you know a little scar tissue for some of the snubs that Biden had for the United Kingdom and and again uh Trump was had a great relationship here in the UK which is not an authorit Ian government and is a a very robust democracy so the perception here in Western Europe of trump again is maybe he's not a great Diplomat but um you know at least in terms of his manners but his accomplishments have been good to say that he's weak and would roll over and give up you our alliances with Japan it's not it's just not true look he he he left the world a peaceful place in 2020 and and I I imagine his policies would be the same I can't tell you how he's going to fix Ukraine and Russia in 24 hours that seems to be a bit of hyperbole to say the least but he was tough on Putin with with not nordstream 2 sanctions of course Biden lifted those sanctions when he got in just like he lifted the Embargo on Iran and and then flipped again and put the sanctions back on nordstream after after Putin invaded Ukraine so I just don't I don't think it's fair to say that that Trump is weak on foreign policy he's actually quite strong and the world like I said the world misses the peace that he had in 2020 that I can surely say that about the the Middle East and I could probably say the same about Russia and Ukraine does he exaggerate a little and say Putin never would would have invaded you know maybe but Putin invaded countries in 2008 and 2014 and 2022 none from 2017 to early 21 and David just turning back to you I mean with regards to developments in the Middle East specifically in in Gaza we're 11 months into a a horrible War there uh humanitarian in catastrophe um and despite all these diplomatic efforts by these various different players something which is quite a recurrent theme in our show this evening is that despite all these efforts in which the United States is playing a leading role uh under the Biden Administration there hasn't been an awful lot to show for those diplomatic efforts certainly not since November last year when there was a brief ceasefire wouldn't it there forant a reason for people in this part of the world to think that perhaps a change of administration in Washington might actually the be the best hope at this stage of some sort of a solution to that situation well I actually actually don't think that the administration in Washington uh is the determinative factor for peace between Israel and Hamas I think those are dynamics are very much endemic to the region um obviously a long historical background there and then continuing um abuses and tragedies on all sides there uh that's that really make people dig in uh the role of the United States and in trying to bring peace has been episodic over the last 70 years it's had some successes but a lot more failures uh so I don't think uh change of administration and I don't think there's probably people I speak to in the Middle East uh area don't really think that there's going to be much difference um depending on who is who is elected vice president Harris had a tough job uh with her own party uh in the debate she had to both reassure Jewish Americans who overwhelmingly support her um that she was committed to the defense of Israel she did that but she also had to speak to the increasing numbers of especially young Progressive uh Americans who see the problems see the tragedies that are happening to the Palestinian people I think she did that very adroitly but I think that was really a for a domestic audience as to what how that would play out uh on the ground uh between Israel and Hamas I don't think would have much difference I wish I could be more optimistic about either either Administration resolving that problem but based on the last 70 plus years I I really can't be optimistic at all we can be hopeful but I don't think it's I I don't think it's logical to be optimistic okay we're gonna have to leave it there gentlemen thank you very much indeed for your time today David sney uh you have had the last word a very big thank you as well to uh Greg Swenson the chair of Republicans overseas thank you both very much indeed thanks a lot son thank you all from the White House to Gaza ke to Beijing elections economics and the environment compete with conflicts and other complex issues for our attention in an age of fake news deep fake and artificial intelligence they've got to have a vote going to say it's important to look beyond the loudest voice to understand the truth from newsmakers to groundbreakers my campaign is going very well presidents Prime Ministers princes and peacemakers and cultural tast makers as Arabs as middle Easter were too emotional join me on the risan show for empowering conversation [Music] welcome back we are now 54 days away from election day in the United States and the first ballots are already going out in some states for early voting well two days on from the presidential debate between Donald Trump and camela Harris what has changed with regards to how the race for the White House is shaping up well for more on this I'm joined by our correspondent in DC Caroline Malone welcome to the program Caroline 67 million people watch the first Harris Trump debate blowing past the Biden matchup now that the dust has settled a little bit what more conclusions are being drawn by the press and the p pundits and the general public as well as to who came out stronger in that debate well a huge number of people watch this debate and it does show the level of Engagement that people have less than two months now until the election as you point out there were fewer people that watch the Biden Trump debate and we know how that turned out hugely pivotal in this election cycle however less people than ended up watching it was about 84 million that ended up watching the Hillary Clinton Trump debate back in 2016 at the time Clinton was touted as winning that debate but she went on to lose the election however this time around it's Harris that seems to be out on top pundits polls people that have been reviewed surveys all showing that they view kamla Harris as doing a better job in this debate debate having said that Trump came out afterwards in the spin room and said that he thought he won the debate he also said he thought he had a harder time because he was debating three people by that he meant the ABC moderators as well as Kamala Harris now uh to be fair to him he was fact checked a lot by the moderators of ABC some might argue that he needed to be fact checked more than Harris did but certainly it did seem that they were giving him a harder time than they were Harris you know having said all that though it does seem like Harris has come out on top here the big question is will that translate into more votes for her yeah I was going to say we we're just two months away aren't we less than two months away from election day and and I'm just interested to know more about what sort of sort of an impact a debate like Tuesdays could potentially have on the polls or is already having on opinion polls well absolutely traditionally debates don't move the opinion polls that much but this year has been unprecedented in so many ways not least of which what we saw happen after the Biden debate that was so disastrous for him that he ended up saying he wouldn't run again and now of course we have Harris so things could be impactful in a way that we haven't seen before in terms of the polls themselves Harris has been on very much an upward trend for the last few months since she's been part of the campaign to the point now where she is neck and neck with Trump in Nationwide polls however even more important than that is how she's doing in swing state so in the US the votes on a state basis are in some ways even more important than the national polls because it's state by state that each presidential candidate gets to a number of electoral College votes that then go towards them winning or losing the presidency and in these swing States Harris has gained so much that she's in fact winning fractionally by one to three percentage points in a number of those swing States Wisconsin Michigan Pennsylvania being among the important ones Trump still looking like he's ahead or at least um on par with Harris and places such as Nevada which is very important North Carolina having said that you know those percentages are all within the margin of error and it is still you know less than two months now until the election so things could go either way I think what's also important to note though is the amount of fundraising that both candidates have been able to do Harris up until this point has raised more than $500 million that is record-breaking amounts in these crucial last few months until the election in November and that's the kind of money that the Democrats are able to use to gain grass rate uh grassroot support to get potentially new voters out to vote to get people that might be you know on the sidelines or undecided about how they might vote to use that money towards those campaigning in swing States in particular and lots of strategists I've been speaking to have spoken about some quite smart strategies that the Democrats have at the moment one of which is to have Harris continuing to campaign in some of the states that they actually don't think she might win among them you know we've got her in North Carolina at the end of this week that's an important state that does often go to the Republicans and so may may go towards Trump but they're doing that because they think it might distract from the Trump campaign from putting all their efforts into the states they think they're going to win so Harris really might um need to focus more efforts in the future into Wisconsin Michigan Pennsylvania um but certainly important to see which way the polls are going because that gives us an indication of how things might end up in November just looking forwards to January the 6th of January in particular uh a key date in modern US history and the 6th of January 2025 is going to be a particularly important date because it'll be the first change of administration since 2021 and we know what happened on the 6th of January 2021 so I think it's fair to say isn't it that every possible step is going to be taken to prevent a repeat of what happened uh nearly four years ago well absolutely hugely important date and in fact so important that the the Secret Service have already designated it a special National um security event what that means is it elevates it up to the level of a presidential inauguration event or a campaign event such as a convention for the Democrats or Republicans that releases a number of funds and really focuses efforts by the security forces on making sure that that date remains secure now the Secret Service are also coordinating on a federal level with agencies also local enforcement a capital police being among the groups of officials and security that are going to be focusing on keeping things secure for that date so that there isn't a repeat of what happened in 2021 there are now more Capital police officers and there were a few years ago that's something that's been very important for Washington DC they've had a recruitment drive because they recognize how important it is to have those offices on the street and we've seen a recent major events such as when Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu was visiting a few weeks ago and there were protests a huge presence of security officials on the streets pretty much every corner where I was um watching and and covering the protests around Capitol Hill around Congress as well as huge fencing that was put up around all the roads in the area and that fencing you know wasn't there in 2021 something that people have noticed and we are like to see an increased level of fencing to protect Congress itself because the security officials aren't just protecting the building of course they're also protecting the lawmakers who are inside and talking of the lawmakers there is you know one other thing that could complicate efforts that is lawmakers continue to debate on funding funding including for security officials there's been a lot of back and forth in recent weeks because Republicans Democrats can't seem to agree on how to push forward Government funding there's the potential of a shutdown even in October that's been very difficult for house Speaker Mike Johnson to push forward and get a vote on because he knows he hasn't got consensus so far and that's the type of level of consensus that you need to release funding for security so that could be an added level of complication looking forward to these important security events okay we're going to have to leave it there thank you very much indeed our correspondent Caroline Malone in Washington thank you very much to you and that is all we have time for on global news today be sure to join us again tomorrow same time same place thanks for [Music] watching from the White House to Gaza ke to Beijing elections economics and the environment compete with conflicts and other complex issues for our attention [Music] in an age of fake news deep fake and artificial intelligence they've got to have a vote in a say it's important to look beyond the loudest voice to understand the truth from newsmakers to groundbreakers my campaign is going very well presidents Prime Ministers princes and peacemakers and cultural taste makers as Arabs as middle Easter we're too emotional join me on the risan show for empowering conversation [Music] the truth simple letters that drove mankind to investigate and search for answers and through this we uncovered the threads of our beginnings we have traveled through the Realms of our imagination and knowledge through many Journeys across the universes floating among the Suns and planets we've discovered moons and monitored the passing of meteors they ventured through Waters to discover the cycle of Life they traveled across the rivers oceans forests and plains in a land where the mountains and topography tell a tale that is millions of years old living creatures of all kinds have traversed them throughout time even human beings beings endured the Journey of building Empires whose remnants remained present till this very day a journey of growth and development which differed and formed but congregated under the premise of establishing life then there are the Arab manuscripts that are overflowing with no knowled that traverses the strings of time and space drawing 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