Joaquin Phoenix and Todd Phillips discuss all things Joker: Folie à Deux | Venice Film Festival

the first question comes to mind is uh at what point after making the first Joker did you both realize that there was more story to tell because at first it seemed to be a movie that was hardly being be seizable and then it makes sense you know to to have a sequel so at what point did you decide was that out already well you know it was something we joked about honestly when we were making the first film but I would say that in my experience Joker was my 11th movie maybe 10th or the Joker one and and my experience with every movie has always been oh man I'm kind of counting down the days for the movie to be over um and on this film it was like we didn't want it to end and it wasn't just because I love working with Wen it was really because for me at least I loved Arthur and I felt like I didn't want to leave Arthur at the end of of the experience of filming so it just to me a sequel in some ways felt like another way to spend more time with Arthur and to explore him further we just find him so interesting the character I don't know if I'm speaking for you no was great no I but I did actually want to want to hang out with you more um I I I I I did have uh it was um it was such a fulfilling experience the the first one and Todd Works in such a unique way that not many uh people have worked with can um especially with the for me that was a a big budget you know for him it wasn't but for me it was and uh I just had such an incredible time and he pulled together these wonderful collaborators and yeah I I wanted more I mean it wasn't a joke for me where all no I know I know I me every time we talked about I talked about a seel I was serious that's right because I I just couldn't I guess I mentally make it a joke then because the movie hadn't come out and I don't I'm like superstition so you don't want to be talking about a sequel when who knows if anybody's going to see this one right yeah I didn't care I was like we'll just go and film it let's get a video camera let's go film some more scenes of whatever happens that's true yeah well sometimes when people do sequels they try to pick what they think worked in the first one and repeat it whereas this movie goes in a completely different version it's almost as if it's an anti Joker it's it goes so in a way so unexpected so why you trying to uh to do that you know not to cash on the on the success of the first but to use it to explore new grounds yeah I mean that's exactly what we're trying to do I I I again I don't want to speak for waen I hate to speak for him when I'm sitting next to him but I don't know that Wen would have done a version where it just felt like as you say a line drive you know something really easy and like okay obviously this is where we're going to go with the second movie he is only going to do something something that challenges him he's only going to do something that feels intimidating and unmake in some in some regards and quite frankly as a filmmaker it's not as fun to to to to not when you have the ability you know the movie was such a success that you are able to kind of uh use that good willll and and do something really challenge yourself and the character was was begging for it in some ways like it's it's almost like you you couldn't just repeat the film because the character is bigger than that and there are so many directions that I think that it wants to go in I mean we did mock up these posters or I put Joker in like 10 different other movies because I was like you could do this character yeah and put him kind of in almost any genre in some ways and so it kind of is begging to be brought into its own new unique space like I just don't think that it could have it certainly didn't want to but um yeah what you and Scott did was is really yeah and sorry but one thing I want to say but thing I want say you said I don't like speaking for Walken when he's sitting right next to me so I do it all the time when when I'm not oh yeah okay I thought so I'll literally be out to dinner with a friend and I'll go you know what w would order well I'm not spoiling what happens in the film but I'd like to you to talk about the fact that uh this is also a movie about responsibility and take taking responsibility for one's actions and recognizing reality over fiction or fantasy or songs and everything I would like you to tell me something about this theme that seems to be the core of the film well it is it's it's it's it's as much as we're saying oh it's very different than the first movie it is a direct sequel in that it picks up Arthur two three years later from the events of the first movie it answers a lot of people's questions I think that they had on the first film which was did that really happen was this all in his head was that in his head was this and it answers those questions and and we find Arthur two three years later having to face the music for the crimes that he committed you know quite literally um and and come to terms with wrestle with reality versus Fantasy on on his in his own way and also the fact that in the movie you mention a movie having been made about the events of the first movie a TV movie someone says it it's awful someone says it's wonderful so uh was that also a comment about the success of the original movie and trying you trying to no that was more a comment on at least in these states our fascination with um you know sensationalism and taking something and turning it into product uh taking a horrific event and turning it into product so yeah that that's that's what that was but but yeah I would say that movie probably was bad you know one person said it's bad in the movie somebody say it's great I'm going to go with it it was bad I think it's going to be good yeah you think it um something about the music well of course this is a musical this was completely unexpected but then you decided to cast Lady Gag and create this character which was also again she's a very unexpected Harley Queen can you tell me something about the musical numbers the dance number the singing numbers uh how did you work on on creating that feeling of old Hollywood in in in a very different again situation such as a Joker's well it was really about taking the standards and taking things that we've all seen before and kind of putting them through Arthur's Eyes um and and so they all feel the music to us feels a little bit off a little left footed some of the numbers if you can call them that the the dancing feels a little off a little left footed so I think I think all of it you know both movies every everything in both movies to me is run through the lens of Arthur so you know what does a musical look like run through the lens of Arthur and and that's kind of what posed the biggest challenge to you in sleeping back into the character was that easy was that harder because the character was going to different places uh I don't know I mean I think anytime I start a film it seems overwhelming and insurmountable um and I I don't know if how I'll be able to get through the first day seriously um and then at at some point it's about just stopping the the noise in your head and relying on the people that you're working with I mean Tod has always brought together such incredible collaborators and for me I have to just start doing something that's tangible and so working with Michael Arnold on choreography and learning to tap dance working um on the the costumes and talking to g k about hair makeup as soon as you start touching something it becomes real right cuz prior of that you're just sitting alone in a room reading a script and you're trying to imagine what it is it's so difficult but here we you know we have these massive sets when you go on the stage and it was like a multi-leveled uh set that just was you were immersed in it right and so that's just part of it you get into the costume and you get on set and is TOS them this wonderful casting of the other characters and working with these amazing collaborators so I think that's a real big uh help and and a part of the process for sure um okay have question I I had more to say but oh no no no please go please go no I mean it was just was a really I had a really great answer and then you cut me off as no no but I don't know why you would do I don't have I don't have it that's I'd like to ask you a question about the opening cartoon yes I don't think spoiling anything but it opens with a classic Warner Brothers cartoons which is not that classic eventually because it very darker it's not fun in the way they were funny so it sets the tone when did this idea come to you to to open with such a bang that came because Scott and I we had this sort of edict when we were making when we were writing the the movie which was boy we really want the movie to feel like it was made by crazy people we really want the movie to feel like the inmates are running the Asylum so to speak so um it just felt right to start with a Looney Tunes kind of um cartoon and and to do our own take on it you know I don't know if you know we got syvan shome to do the animation you know he's amazing and he was happy to do it and working with him for me was a huge thrill so uh yeah I think it's it's it's it's a fun way and it also kind of catches you up on what the first film was about a little bit you know Arthur and his shadow and the whole IDE of the struggle of identity so it it felt like a very simple um but fun fun way to start the film thank you both very much thank you thank you thank you thank you so much for that that was a little long also