the NRA board votes on a new reform plan plus the group launches its first multi-million dollar election ad bu all this and more on the news [Music] update no the devil got no hold on [Music] me all right ladies and gentlemen welcome to the news update brought to you by the reload I'm contributing wrer Jake fogelman joined as always by reload founder Steven gutowski the reload.com of course is where you can head over today and sign up for our free Weekly Newsletter we'll keep you up to date on all things happening in the world of gun politics and policy uh one of the big Stories We want to kick off with this week is you actually just got back from covering the NRA's board meeting in Texas uh where it sort of seemed like it was a marathon board meeting you were there for quite a long time covering it um what were some of your takeaways from that meeting yeah so the meeting was last Saturday right I believe um was it was quite the trip for me because I FW I flew out on Friday night and I was like all right well the meeting's at 9:00 a.m. uh it was in Arlington Texas the they you know this is one of those things where the NRA does these they're supposed to be open to members and they are if you actually show up there and know where they are and when they happen uh but they don't really advertise that part of it where they're going to be and when and uh you know it's certainly not something that is where they encourage people to show up these things put it that way uh so I actually had the wrong at first I my information was slightly off because I thought it was uh in Downtown Dallas but it was actually in uh Los kimus which is not far away so luckily for me because I'd already booked I did lose a night at a hotel in downtown Dallas so a and then I had to extend my trip by an extra day because of how long the the meeting went so people need to they support us by buying some of those memberships because this was a a very it ended up being very expensive and timec consuming trip because um I thought oh well it'll be over usually this end you know 3 or 4 o'clock this one and so you know I was going to fly out that day but when it came to close to a time for my flight it was pretty clear that it wasn't going to end and uh anytime soon so I Che I switched flights got bought another night at the hotel I was staying at and and uh stayed until the very end which was after midnight actually um they had set the end time and there was a sign it was going to be very long at the very beginning uh during the Open Session where members and and uh staff and people could watch they extended the end of the meeting till 11:59:59 because they technically the they only had the room booked for that long but it actually went till about you know 15 minutes past midnight before it was all over and about 12 of those 15 hours were in executive session which is where they don't uh where you're not allowed in unless you're a board member or uh qualified staff or or lawyers or something along those lines so I was not allowed in during that period uh it's where it's a confidential period where they're discussing I guess things they don't want to be public um so yeah it was quite the quite the meeting um and bottom line I don't know that they kind of things just uh seem to end with the status quo I guess you would you could say they they did apparently vote on what proposals they're going to send to the judge in New York to kind of finish up this corruption trial there the Civil Trial in New York uh the judge after he dismissed the request for a government overseer for the NRA we said that was too burdensome um and that he believed the NRA could reform itself without that uh uh he also issued uh a request for them to come together with the attorney general and work on a series of I think it's six different reforms things like shrinking the size of the board opening up access to the the board member ballot for elections at the NRA uh you know giving more protections to their compliance officer things of that nature where you know these reforms keeping people off of the audit committee or at least out leadership positions on the audit committee who had been on that committee During the period that the the jury found uh wrongdoing in things of that in that realm is what he wanted to see and there's really they were supposed to already have that finished before this board meeting but the negotiations have have dragged on and uh so the the board itself was going to vote and give their input on these things we don't know exactly what they said um but we know that they made some sort of decision on that front they it's not public one but there was also going there was also supposed to be and was a big fight over the What's called the special litigation committee which is a small Committee of the board made up of current president Bob bar former president Charles cotton and longtime board member David Koy Who oversee the litigation strategy in that New York case uh and the employment of the lawyer in that case which is a controversial figure within the NRA uh Bill Brewer in his firm there a lot of the reformers want to disband that committee and fire or end the relationship with Bill Brewers and his firm and they tried to do that apparently at this meeting and and failed that's we don't have a lot of details because it happened during This Confidential executive session but we know that it failed um and and so those were the two big outcomes they voted on some sort of plan to send to the judge and they failed to remove this committee and and the nas outside law this is the LW that they've spent you know I think it was $182 million total not just on New York litigation uh but overall on and not even just on litigation The Bu firm has done other things like PR representation and stuff that nature but uh overall the entire sum that they've they've spent on them is is quite a lot right and that's been one of the key um criticisms that the firm has gotten an NRA leadership like the special litigation committee uh over the years about this relationship so um but it's still going they're still being represented by Brewer uh presumably they'll continue to be because I don't the next board meeting is not until January so and it's at the same Hotel in Las cenus uh the the Omni at 9:00 am I think January 11th we put it in in the piece so n members want to go they can um you're it's something that they're able to tend um but almost never nobody ever does um and no reporters ever go either I was the only reporter there which is often often the case with these things so but I thought this one was pretty important because this is where it seemed they were going to make a number of big choices about their future whether it was these proposals to the judge or their relationship with firm and I guess they did um most of them just ended up being uh you know sticking with the status quo for for the moment uh I will say that uh the impression I got from the meeting and I've had this impression since you know the elections they when they elected their leadership positions uh earlier in the year back in when may uh at the last board meeting uh the reformers seem to have a majority support on the board at this point point but the other side the cotton and Koy and bar appear to have uh you know experience but they outmaneuvered I think the reformers at this meeting is what the impression that I got from it and you could tell this sort of early on because in Open Session there was an effort by their formers to add uh a section to the agenda where they were going to talk about the special litigation committee and try to disband it and that you know they run under these uh bureaucratic rules the Roberts rules of meetings something something along those lines uh common set of rules and but they're very complex and um the problem they ran into was Charles cotton objected to adding this uh agenda item on the day of because to do that you'd have to uh have a two-thirds vote instead of a majority vote and I think that's what they ran into an executive position I don't know for sure because we don't know the details but I think they ran into a problem where they may have had enough majority support to get rid of the special litigation committee and the relationship with Brewer or what have you but they lost on this procedural fight you know this procedural movement they were they were outflanked by you know the the people who have been there a lot longer in many cases and have more intimate knowledge of Hell the uh nraas and bylaws and things that that that nature work so uh that was my overall impression like the it it feels as though the performers have more people on their side on the board but they don't have the same institutional knowledge as people they're opposed you know on on the opposite side of so um you know that that's that's how it came out to me from from my view of things and and you know I really don't know if they are going to agree to shrink the board for instance from 76 members down to something smaller like the judge wants I was I was unsure of some of these proposals and whether they're going to offer up uh something in line with what the judge wants it's not clear to me one way or the other we we don't know for sure but I got the impr that there was there were some things that they didn't necessarily want to do um so we'll have to wait and see until some of that becomes public and we know for sure because like I said most of the details of what happened in that executive session the board members aren't willing to share because it's confidential but uh you know we're always looking for whatever information we can get our hands on to that's verifiable to report I always get lots of rumors it's not what we do at the reload um we have to verify things before we can report them um you know so there's I hear lots of things all the time some some of it comes true some of it doesn't I only report stuff if I can verify its authenticity right but like you said you know from what we can report it does seem like things are sort of business as usual for the time being until we get further developments um related to that I mean it's it's a link in the newsletter but it's sort of related that they're already facing another lawsuit uh a whistleblower complaint related to the women's leadership Forum about I mean some of the same problems they've had before self deal accusations of self-dealing this this particular employee is suing the NRA saying that she was wrongfully terminated because she was essentially not willing to engage in some of these uh requests by you know folks like Wayne lair's wife Susan laier uh according to the complaint these are all obviously alleged um right folks like Tyler sh were involved um so again more legal let go since then yeah yeah um Janet nice is a a board member the NRA that is named in this suit there there's uh yeah a lot of allegations in there that are you know similar in nature to what we've heard before from the NRA the big difference I think is the timing of it um because these are alleged to have happened like last year right right which is in the middle of the period that the NRA's has claimed in court was their you know their turnaround and that they were things were done differently and this lawsuit alleges the opposite of that right stuff like trying to hide expenses um yeah lack of internal controls uh retaliation for reporting wrongdoing you know similar similar allegations again like you said just allegations it's a lawsuit we don't uh we don't know for sure but this is a person who's put their name to these allegations right this lawsuit um so we'll see how that plays out and we'll also see if the other thing is like whether this affects this final stage of this NRA Civil Trial because I mean that's one of the things that was at play in this case was the idea that the NRA the NRA hasn't actually fully reformed yet and they're still these problems are ongoing now I will say that several of those people who were named in the suit don't aren't at the inter anymore Susan laier I don't believe is still working with the women's leadership Forum although actually I don't know that for sure obviously Wayne Lop here is not there anymore but I don't think Susan is either but um I could be wrong on that point actually uh but certainly Tyler sh is not there anymore he was let go um he was also implicated in the scheme to run extravagant expenses through acri and McQueen the the NRA's former media contractor to hide them from public view uh of NRA donor so he was let go uh earlier this year but yeah I mean it it certainly could throw a wrench into these negotiations at the end here I don't this would depend on how the judge and the Attorney General view them I mean they are just accusations they're not right um they're not proven out in court or anything like that this is the very beginning of a a lawsuit so I don't know it might be too late in the game for it to have an impact on this settlement talks this discussion over what the judge should order the N to do but we'll see right it just goes to show that as the wouldbe reformers on the board and some of the old older guard folks on the board are sort of locked in this match to try to see which direction the group's going to take they're still facing outside allegations so the Saga is ongoing and like you said we'll stay on top of it um yeah but outside you know recent recent allegations too these aren't right a lot of the other stuff we've talked about Wing suits and private jet travels and things of that nature those were from years and years ago at this point this thing is drugg on for a long time that's another thing about the the board meeting and not coming to sort of a anything resembling a final conclusion to all of this it it feels as though it's just going to drag on again maybe the reformers can get more people that they want on the board and have a better go at it next time but that's you know several months from now the Board elections won't be until next year later next year uh or you know spring next year so I don't know this thing just feels like it's going to continue to drag on for who knows how much longer right but in the meantime you know something we've talked about related to the NRA for a while is sort of their fundraising lows their political fundraising rows in particular we've done several stories this year uh as more data has come out from the FEC kind of comparing the numbers between the NRA and some of its Allied groups on the gun right side and the gun control groups and consistently the gun control groups have outraised the NRA which is sort of an outlier historically and they haven't spending has been fairly low for what most bile accounts is a high stakes presidential election so something that you wouldn't typically see but uh this week we have a piece where the NRA actually has ramped up it's spending uh rather significantly um not in the presidential race but in the uh Montana Senate race which is obviously going to be key to determining who controls uh the Senate after November uh they just announced a $2 million ad bu in that race between incumbent Democrat John tester who's considered fairly vulnerable uh and his Republican CH Challenger Tim sheii uh they they uh spent 2 million on this ad that they said it's going to run Statewide on TV and in digital format and it's essentially hitting test t on his saying essentially claiming he's insufficiently protective of the right to bear arms and hits him on his past support for like the bipartisan safer communities act for example uh so it's the first big time we've seen him in this election cycle that the NRA has really made a point to play up gun politics and try to influence the uh the outcome yeah and it's it's I guess the biggest gun related adby that we've seen publicly announced so far because there was every town I think announced a million dollar Abby in partnership with Planned Parenthood right um so uh you know and the gun control groups have committed to spending huge amounts of money in this election uh but we haven't seen at least through the uh you FC which is how you can track uh more quickly what's happening right in these races there's a lot of stuff they can do that you can't we're not going to be able to see until months later right uh whether it's you know through spending through their C4s or or things of that nature like uh and if they don't announce it it's harder to tell that it's happening but this is I think the first two $2 million announcement in a specific ad right not just a commitment to spend a certain amount of money generally or or that they raise a certain amount of money but here's an actual ad by and yeah it's it's in a key race that will likely determine the balance of power in the Senate um um which I think people should be um concerned about if they're uh say even if you don't want to vote for Donald Trump and you're your proun I guess your your gun rights Advocate uh you know I think one of the top concerns with Camala Harris becoming president in that scenario is uh this concern about eliminating the filibuster and pushing through a number of uh gun control bills or you know uh Supreme Court packing initiatives things of that nature this probably the this is something that the was actually what Randy KAC uh laid out as the dark vision is like the the most uh as his vision of the warning about like kamla Harris presidency but I think it's your sort of worst case scenario um option and obviously it's not going to be something that's ly to happen it may not happen as I think we had David French on the show a little while back he doesn't think it would happen at all uh but it's much less likely to happen if the Republicans control the Senate and so you know whatever you feel about the presidential race um the senate race is going to be extremely important because it could easily deliver uh divided government at the end of this right um and if you want Donald Trump to win um yeah the presumably if you want him to pass any program legislation he's also going to need control of the Senate so right yeah I mean it's it's probably a good place to spend their limited resources more limited you know I don't they they're still going to be one of the biggest Spenders on the gun side in this election um they just aren't going to be at the level they were in 2020 or 2016 yeah yeah it's it's not an insignificant amount of money it's uh about 10 times what they've spent on outside spending so far it's their first ad ad placement of the entire race anywhere they claim they're going to be doing more not just in not just in Montana but elsewhere so we obviously we'll have to see what that looks like but at least it shows that them they're they're getting involved even as they're uh confronting all the internal stuff that they're going through as well sure yeah they're still they're still doing this stuff it's not you know whatever is happening at the board meetings is not completely eliminated their political activism is still going and it's still remains more significant than any other gun rights group that's that's for sure as far as the uh political spending goes um yeah that's something even that Doug Hamlin the CEO of the NRA mentioned in at the board meeting as well was pointing out that you know that he he was honest about the NRA struggles and its loss of uh Club you know I think there was like 8,000 clubs have uh eliminated their affiliation with the NM their they their staff has shrunken across the board in all these different departments um you know he was very realistic about what's going on at the same time he was still emphasizing the fact that the NRA um you know you add up all the other proun groups that exist out there and they're like 10% of what the NRA is right and they don't focus on that holistic approach the NRA has to being involved at basically every level most of them specialize um in legal work as we've we've talked about on the show before and um not that takes away from what those other groups are doing it's just the reality of the situation even today with the NRA maybe half the size of what it used to be Revenue wise uh it's still much larger than anyone else yeah absolutely uh but speaking of the presidential race and presidential politics we just had our the first and perhaps only uh presidential debate of the cycle between the new uh Duo uh KL Harris and and Donald Trump obviously squared off in the ABC debate this week uh I know the main interview segment uh podcast that we're gonna be doing this week is going to cover this more in detail but you know guns yeah didn't come uple actually yeah from seor uh to to sort of go over the politics of of the debate the the gun politics and and some of the other details so we're going to get more in depth on that on the interview podcast but yeah I mean actually one of the takeaways for me and I think maybe you were about to say this I apologize for cutting you off but no worries um uh there there wasn't a they really didn't talk about gun policy if that makes sense like what they talked about and what the the moderators brought up was were Camala Harris's uh Kamala Harris's flip-flops basically and one of those is her her walk back on um mandatory BuyBacks for assault weapons so-called assault weapons right and so that's really how that came it wasn't a question about gun policy which I was actually a bit surprised about because I think I was on cam Edwards show last week and I was like oh they're definitely going to it's going to come up because there was the Georgia school shooting and so it's been in the news and it's it's bound to come up but it didn't uh really instead we we but we did get a little bit right I think what you were getting at is they did talk exclusively about her walk back and I guess Trump's point was he doesn't believe that she means it I mean she he said that she's going to confiscate everyone's guns which is not what she has ever proposed she did but she has proposed of course confiscating some Firearms or doing a mandatory buyback I think it's fair to call that a confiscation because you don't have a choice you have to uh Surrender Your Firearms or become uh or presumably you would be a criminal at that point uh so I don't see how that's any different from like that's that's confiscation I don't think there's any splitting hairs on that um and you know she then to respond to that uh which she made a point to do by the way right this that was interesting because she she when she was first asked about it it was part of a a series of policy policy changes that she's made and the question was asking you know how people can trust uh you know that she's not going to change more things that she actually believes her current positions or what have you uh and she didn't directly address guns the the mandatory buyback walk back in that section she she talked about some of the other things things and her values haven't changed or whatever but um Trump brought it up again later I believe is how it happened and then she felt the need to respond and it was interesting how she did because she brought up her gun ownership like that she owns a gun and that means she's not going to take anyone's Firearms away um whether that's an effective line or not you know I did a whole analysis piece on this whether her gun own her ship emphasizing that is going to make much of a difference um but it was interesting to see her do that and I think that's something we're gon to get a lot more deep into with with Dave but but yeah I mean I I'll be honest with you I forgot that she owned a gun um did I think you remembered this this was something I remembered it but it's I can't blame people for forgetting because she mentioned it once and it was reported at the time and then it like basically never ever came up again in the it was like four four or five years ago that it came up and then she never approached it ever again even when she was presumably ostensibly in charge of like the office of gun violence prevention you know you think there'd be some political utility and saying look I'm a gun owner but we need to do this to crack down on gun violence or whatever you know a lot of politicians do that that was never her tact uh so it I don't blame people for forgetting but I I I agree with you it was interesting that she felt the need to to bring that up maybe to burnish her swing state credentials or I don't know something along the lines was probably the thought but I mean it's definitely you know it's it's not a new thing it's a new tactic for her she hasn't ever done even when she mentioned she owned a gun in it was April 2019 uh when she first mentioned this yeah she didn't use it as a way to say uh I'm a gunner but I support these various gun restrictions which is usually how Democrats approach this it's a super common thing right Tim Walls is a perfect example because I've been doing that with him that was part of his whole convention speech is the whole thing on how he he uh owns guns and he likes to hunt um and he's a good shot he wants to supposedly w a congressional like shooting competition or something uh that was that was part of their pitch on him uh but also he wants you know all these gun restrictions um common thing Joe Biden another example of somebody who has done this a lot in the past you one interesting Twist on it like I talked about in my analysis piece uh by the way the analysis pieces now you can read of them for free by putting in your email address um uh so I made that change recently just to give people a little more access to the site and a little more preview of what you get as a member but this piece I I mentioned that you look at Tim malls or Joe Biden they're they're always talking about shotguns or they're shown with shotguns Joe Biden is G some pretty dubious advice on self-defense with shotguns getting a double barrel shotgun and then sh shooting two rounds off into the air which both might get you in legal trouble and would also leave you without any ammunition like firearm to defend yourself but regardless you know that that's usually how you they tend to approach uh Democrats who uh want to emphasize their gun ownership it's usually shotguns that they own or hunting rifles of some kind and it's almost always connected to hunting uh they they talk about gun own ship in the the uh context of hunting and um what's interesting about Harris is that she owns a handgun and she owns it explicitly for self- protection self-defense so that's that is different and actually might be a little bit more effective in connecting with average gun owners because most gun owners aren't Hunters um there are plenty of hunters out there of course but most gun owners own handguns and they own them for self-defense so it is interesting to see if they're going to play that up at all and try to use that as a a way to to make that line of argument more effective but you know they haven't done it until now and then she just pulled it out at the debate that was interesting yeah listeners should uh should check out the interview podcast with Dave Wile when it comes out it'll be available members on Sunday and for everyone else Monday and they can uh hear you guys' insights talking about why and sort of the strategy and whether it moves the needle at all um one of the last to be fair to her too by the way I was surprised when we found out that Donald Trump owned guns too right like his sons are Avid gun owners Aid Shooters and Hunters but I've never he's never really had that that reputation and I don't think I've ever even seen a picture of him shooting a gun um I don't think one exists publicly so when we found out that he actually owns at least like three different guns or at least he he carries uh he has a carry permit in New York or he did then I'll get to how he found out about this in a moment but he has a carry had a carry permit in New York and he had three guns attached to that he turned over two of them to the mypd and then I guess there was some confusion about the third one but the last reporting on we got on that from CNN was that it was ball ful transferred in Florida um because we found out about this because he was convicted of a felony and he can't own he can't possess Firearms anymore um at least unless that that conviction gets uh overturned on appeal which she's still going through all of that but uh you know so you know she also has that potential line of attack if she wanted to go that round she didn't do it in the debate but uh but I you know I was even surprised there because Trump is doesn't not come across as like a gun guy and I guess it gets to the point and like you said we'll talk about this more on the interview but I don't know how much this matters because that's not the reason that people like gun voters support Trump is not necessarily because he has a great reputation as somebody who shoots a lot or whatever right but we'll get in like you said more on that on the interview podcast yeah absolutely uh but speaking of sort of Swing States and and gun politics uh you you reported on a uh some new polling data that we got uh in the aftermath of the Georgia shooting um you know we typically see it's sort of a a trend that we've seen over the past several years that in the aftermath of of shootings whether they're you mass shootings or crime or something like that an uptick in support for various gun control laws and we've seen that once again here um although I will say it seems like it was a relatively modest uptick in support for uh gun control laws yeah that's how I'd frame it as well um there was an increase in support for Universal background checks and red flag law proposals but not a huge one you know a relatively minor increase in fact that same poll if you go back to a year or two ago I believe that uh those positions had higher support at certain points um you know so there was an increase between the poll that came out this week and the same poll from the same firm in February 2023 which was the last time they about these questions which is another thing we not getting a lot of polling on on policy right we've talked about this before and you know look you can't extrapolate too much from a single poll but this is right you know we don't get a lot of these at the moment it's just not usually pulsers are driven in the same way that media is mainly by mass shootings when that gets asked when there's attention on it and there haven't been a lot of those like we've discussed previously on the show so there just hasn't been much gun policy polling to this point but what we did get showed a slight uptick these are both policies that Kamala Harris uh Kel Harris I apologize if I've been saying going back and forth in pronunciation here but uh cona Harris has both of these policies as her inner campaign so maybe it'll help her in some slight way uh although the other finding of this poll is that despite the fact that 90% of people pulled had heard about the shooting at least a little bit um I think it was like 40 was it like 45 45 in terms of a little bit and a lot but excuse me you know all these people have heard about this shooting but it hadn't changed their view on how important guns are as an issue in the election only 4% said that and I believe that was actually down a point from the previous poll so that's your Counterpoint is that maybe it's not going to have that much of an impact on how people are viewing the election because it hasn't increased the uh importance of guns as an issue in this particular poll again it's just one poll but detail po I say it's also kind of a trend though right because I reported on a fox poll a couple weeks back where voters said that they trusted Donald Trump more on the issue of guns than KLA Harris but similarly they asked okay well where does guns rank in your what's going to be your deciding factor or what issue is most important to your vote and guns I think in that one was second to last in terms of issues that people ranked and so it's sort of a trend that we've seen that people are deemphasizing gun politics at least according to the polling we have the limited polling we have as you mentioned and I think it was the same basic result here as well I think it was second to last of the issues they asked about uh which is actually somewhat abnormal because what I'm traditionally used to seeing is guns being a mid pack issue somewhere in the middle and I think we've had some polling this year that shows that but yeah we are getting increasingly these polls that show it's a bottom tier issue right now um not sure why you know there's other than going back to just there haven't been a lot of mass shootings there haven't been a lot of high-profile shooting events in this in the country this year we had the Super Bowl Parade the Trump assassination attempt itself uh and then this Georgia school shooting and um you know that that's well we would like to have zero of them right you know shootings are still a horrendous problem everybody wants to get to none of them in an Ideal World um it's fewer than we normally see so maybe that's why it just isn't driving the same amount of attention that it it has in the past because you're used to seeing for instance mass shootings and the the violence projects definition you're used to seeing probably five to 10 of those a year over the past decade or so and um yeah so we have one this year so far doesn't mean we won't end up at that number unfortunately because of the nature of these these kinds of shootings that fall under that particular definition the four more killed in a single Incident That's not you know criminal related a robbery or shootout or something of that nature um and those tend to be a lot more random and harder to predict uh so it um you could get a spat of them you could get several in a row it happens sometimes and you know we still have several months left in the year um where we could see more shoo is the same thing before the you could see more before the election too we almost had one uh over the weekend there was a shooting in Kentucky luckily no one was killed but at first reports seemed like it was going to be perhaps another uh mass shooting pretty quickly on the foots the on the heels of the Georgia shooting which probably would have brought a lot more attention to it and might have actually yeah change the nature of the race but that's um you know you're dealing with not just violence that happens but you know media um TR not even necessarily conscious ones but you know what actually will trigger a national news event um can be pretty random in terms of uh you know when when it comes to violence because you have to have a number of different factors play in to for something to to to rise that level and one of those factors is um how quickly one shooting happens after another right El Paso and and Dayton being a pretty classic example of that I think they got a lot more attention on the issue because they happened quickly in succession and um yeah we could see that again here but I don't know it's uh it's something where um at this moment we aren't we we just haven't had a lot of attention on guns uh at the national level and so I think that's what's driving this lower interest among voters uh when they're thinking about their vote there's obviously also just a lot I mean you know look guns rarely gets into the top tier it's usually going to be economic issues that people are saying that they're top and I think that was true in this poll and is true in almost every poll some sort of economic issue whether it's just the economy generally or inflation or prices or what have you uh those have been the the top thing and um you know concerns over democracy or immigration have also been much higher priorities of most of the time in polling to then guns so uh but bottom line I think yeah the the takeaway to me is slight uptic but it doesn't seem like things have shifted significantly because of um politically because of what happened in in Georgia uh although there was one there was another interesting tibbit in that poll uh before we move on to the next thing which was that 77% of people support holding parents uh legally viable for violence committed by their kids who they gave access to a firearm to um So that obviously is a potential uh outcome that we're seeing here people this new trend of charging parents for school shootings at least under certain circumstances where perhaps they at least should have had the a pretty good forewarning that this could happen and they still literally bought guns for their kids um that at least in those circumstances people seem to be on board with with this new trend of of charging the parents so that's of course you know something that happens in the immediate aftermath and there's a lot more that goes into it um and that we'll have to examine as as these the case against the Georgia father moves along we don't know a lot yet we just have some basic stuff and it doesn't look great right but uh it may not rise to criminal culpability we'll have to see but but polling shows uh I think people are relatively unsympathetic to these parents uh at least in these situations like the the crumblies or or this Georgia uh school shooting father so yeah that is interesting because I don't think I've know if I've seen that in other polls before so I know it's been pulled before yeah interesting finding I'm getting into some of the newsletter links before we wrap up here uh we had an interesting one from the trace examining just sort of the in the two and a half years now since Bruin has been decided or two years now since Bruin has been decided uh the various challenges um which particular gun laws have been challenged and honestly no surprise they found that uh the felon in possession ban was by far the most challenged gun law since bruan they tallied I think just under 1100 uh Second Amendment decisions that have been handed down citing that law and challenges to that law so that's something obviously we've covered a ton of these uh so not a huge shock and you can see why and they they actually interviewed the piece is good uh interviews several public defenders as to taking advantage of bruan in this instance as a tool uh in defending their clients um but just interesting to have some numbers to this phenomenon yeah and it makes sense if you think about it right because because Bruin puts the onus on the government to prove its law is not is constitutional rather than the other way around so the burden shifting is I think what has been the biggest factor in this explosion of of new Second Amendment claims um with new Second Amendment defenses and uh yeah I mean you would think that the Supreme Court is going to have to address this sooner than later I think you you WR a piece on this a little while back and now's pce where it was like they you have to do something I mean they they've kicked the can down the road for the moment uh by denying a bunch of those even the doj's requests to settle some of these questions but they can't do that forever I think yeah we'll have to see but especially because I think at least two maybe more of those cases that they kicked back down have already come back up with the same exact result so I mean it's I think it's a matter of time yeah um another one of the links we want to touch on uh is from CBS News coming out of Massachusetts and it's actually covering a story we reported a while back uh I think we were one of the only outlets at the time to report this story because it was just a state court criminal case where a uh New Hampshire man A New Hampshire resident who lawful possession of a firearm was legally able to carry in the state of New Hampshire had crossed into Massachusetts and I think he was pulled over was a traffic violation and when it was discovered that he had his firearm on him he was criminally charged because Massachusetts uh doesn't recognize uh your legal ability if you're able to carry in New Hampshire they require you to specifically get a outof state carry permit the lower court said that Massachusetts law was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment it is now up to the Massachusetts Supreme Court where they just heard oral arguments in that case so potentially a big deal for you know cross state outof state carrier rights yeah sort of uh National reciprocity through the courts kind of situation I mean obviously it wouldn't necessarily apply anywhere else but Massachusetts but uh pretty fascinating to see them uh go this route and to for it to be a fight between the states themselves not just the individual defendants so we we'll definitely keep an eye on the outcome of that one because I think yeah this is a potential New Horizon in the fight over uh concealed carry uh you know the right to to carry a firearm in public that that's uh something the Supreme Court has handed down as as a right but uh haven't gone to the great details like this yet and um we're going to see how these lower courts handle it yeah absolutely and the last link uh we want to hit on is just a fifth circuit uh decision so rahimi in the aftermath of the Supreme Court deciding rahimi and overturning the the fifth circuit if listeners will recall they had the case got brought back before them where they had to reaffirm rahimi the defendant's conviction because obviously that's Supreme Court said that the law was constitutional that he was charged under and it was just an interesting discussion in the legal opinion sort of saying well we got the they the fifth circuit panel essentially said we got bruan right the first time when we struck down the law but the Supreme Court changed bruan so therefore you know it's their prerogative to change bruan and that we have to follow it so I I just thought that was fascinating yeah for sure it is and uh people should should check that out if they if they want to uh yeah read more of I mean this is a common thing you see in in lower Court sometimes right where they get rebuked and they're like well I don't know that we agree with the higher Court here but we can't do anything about it because it's the they have um Authority so right um yeah I mean it's it's definitely an interesting thing and it'll be interesting to see how the the fifth circuit continues with the with Second Amendment cases after rahimi itself yeah um if they change their tact or or not which it seems like they're probably not going to um CH too much in their approach here I mean Rim hasn't changed the approach of many places yet we California has referenced it in there and that to me was the was what stuck out because we haven't seen most other courts haven't said rahimi changed Bruin or circuit like made a point to say oh rahimi clearly changed Bruin therefore this is the result so that's interesting yeah it is interesting all right well that's all we've got for you guys this week make sure you check out that uh interview podcast with Dave Wile that'll be coming on on Monday for public view or listening and uh of course Sunday for members and if you want to be a member have the reload.com and buy a membership today for exclusive access to hundreds of pieces of analysis and hard news that you will not find anywhere else and of course early access to the podcast and the opportunity to appear on the show in a member segment by the way which I hope to do another one of those real soon but that's it that's all we've got we'll see you guys real soon no the devil's got no hold on me 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