[Applause] [Music] [Applause] hello I'm yit Levy of Channel 12 in Tel Aviv and I'm Jonathan fredland of the guardian in London and we are Unholy to Jews on the news from keshet podcasts hello yit how are you doing this week hello Jonathan well it's a you know it's an eventful week here in Israel big uh political achievement for the Bennett government uh I'm going pretty heavy on the small talk as you noticed um you know almost 5 months after being sworn in they managed to get a budget passed uh last night with a razor thin majority you and I used to say this Coalition is so diverse they can't agree on lunch well they agreed on a economic blueprint so this is a pretty big deal this is why people want us as guests at their cocktail parties you CU you and I this is our idea of of opening ice breaking chip chat to talk about the Israel budget but you're you're on home ground a lot of fun in parties Mr both both of us are your go to guests uh because this is what we will bring to the festivities no I'm I but you know you're on home ground here because I'm interested in this because as we've always said people gave this I mean Netanyahu gave it you know five minutes and yet here they are reaching this Milestone and and getting a budget and so what's in it is there anything really striking in it well first of all I mean the the key key thing about the budget I I would say is not whether it's a good one or a bad one but the fact that there is a budget um and this is very important Visa this specific government well we know this we've talked about this if the budget had not passed the knesset would automatically dissolve we' be headed for new elections now this is signaling to all of the players in the political arena there is indeed a government it is not on shaky legs anymore uh and and the benedit is a prime minister I would just say uh just you know to to note a small Paradox in this whole story right we know we still know that the glue holding this whole Coalition together is of course uh Benjamin Netanyahu the budget passing the government now is seemingly entrenched means that this weakens BB it might embolden his challengers in the leud thus eventually forcing him out once that happens of course the glue holding the go government together weakens but I think I've probably moved a bit little too forward in the future right now no but also I think um you know people will remember that how agonizingly slow it was to get budgets through even when he had big coalitions Etc it would go right to the wire sometimes a year would go by way there was no budget and yet here this is this goes to that idea that the new government is capable and sort of adults in the room and and all of that it helps them in that way I mean it's good that we're talking about Bennett because Bennett is on people's radar um in quite a big way um outside his Ro this week I mean not always you know a big figure but he you know he was around yeah I mean I mean this is all in all a pretty good week for the Israeli Prime Minister all this is happening on the cusp of you know glasgow's cup 26 Summit him meeting with uh world leaders cozying up to world leaders and you know I would say he's probably living netanyahu's dream right he's being there as the leader who dealt Co a huge blow with the booster shots this for example is what uh British prime minister Boris Johnson said of him this week to Christian Almanor I had a very interesting conversation earlier on with naftali Bennett of the of Israel and it's that third jab gives you a huge amount of protection and conversely if you don't have it then the protection starts to wne and so if you even if you've had two Jabs I think people need to wake up to the fact that uh without the booster they they are going to be less protected and we need them to to get the boosters in the way that they they got their first two so that was Boris Johnson about Israel's handling of the co crisis but of course cop 26 is about the environment so let's talk about that I think it's it's interesting to note that on environmental issues this is not something on the top agenda in Israel right I mean this is a country that always seems seem like it's a country under existential threat doesn't have time to deal with these issues supposedly right we don't have a coal mining industry I think it's golden used to say that Moses took us to the only place in the Middle East that doesn't have oil so it's never been such a an issue or a debatable uh issue issue in this country so Nali Ben could actually use that to score points on an issue that is not something that Israelis are at all sort of is not a controversy in this country at all it's it plays to his Advantage no I mean that's interesting because the fact that it's not controversial in the way that it you know has been in the United States for example doesn't necessarily mean a country is going to act on it it could just be that they just don't talk about it at all they all agree it's a problem but don't deal with it I'm interested in this about you know whether Israelis themselves have sort of got it on climate change and just environmental issues in general you know I'm sitting here in London London burrow of Hackney where we separate out our rubbish every week into black bins and green bins and food waste is a separate bin and it's all everyone's pretty on it you know and there is a kind of stigma about driving an old vehicle that pump you know is high emissions and people are very happy to Virtue signal about cycling rather than getting the you know car and getting the train instead of the plane it's just now sort of part of the culture and you know my impression from a distance of of of Israeli life is it's not quite like that I'm being polite I'm just I'm just thinking back to the number of times we were talking like I'm on my bike I'm on my bicycle now I'm cycling so yes um to be that's the virtue signaling you're upbring me for virtue singaling to you it's done just a little bit um you noticed that huh I uh I'll tell you what look Israelis I I think generally again the the state the collective State of Mind is always that there's something more urgent right again we a country that feels under existential threat and if Iran I don't want to sound flippant but if Iran is going to throw a nuclear bomb at us who cares about recycling right that is like the essential sort of uh state of mind so Israel is a country in which recycling is a little bit is considered a little bit of a luxury uh cars have doubled in the last decade there are many there's the public transport isn't exactly let's say efficient so it's it's not an issue that I think Israelis have been dealing with uh in depth the funny there's a joke about how the ministry relevant to this used to be called um the ministry for the quality of the environment and at some point they had to change it to defense or protection of the environment so the Israelis would take it seriously because they understand the word defense or protection right so now it's called hag um so that would make you know try to make an attempt to make them more interested in this topic by the way Nali Bennett again driving this back to him he's talking about things like making Israel like the clean tech or the Green Tech Hub right of the world taking what we know about startup and about high-tech and turning that into our new brand I don't know if he'll be be successful I have to say the discrepancy between saying this is a prime minister with a year and eight months on the clock and his legacy regarding the environment is is an interesting sort of Gap but that is what he's trying to do he does show great confidence for him to be making plans about was talking about zero emissions by 2050 which incidentally is when netan is coming back as for his fourth tenure as prime minister so you know he's thinking ahead he's thinking he's thinking now we did get into some of this at a quite a high sort of policy level in our conversation with Ben rhods on the podcast last week and that actually brought in a really interesting response from uh an old friend of mine British born lives on kibutz toal in Israel his name is Robbie gringras and he's a writer and performer but he said that actually he thought that we should not lose sight of the fact that uh cuz we talked about the role the religion might play and and what voice there is in that and he said you know the non-orthodox Jewish World which is the vast majority in the United States is all about the climate crisis and he offered some really interesting examples in his letter he said leading lights include Yosi Abramovich who actually I think I'm right in saying is Sarah Silverman's brother-in-law we can do a bit of Jewish geography here he pushed for all the solar fields in the neev and also set them up throughout Africa there's a rabbi rabbi jul Sinclair who writes a lot about solar power and its links apparently the inventor of solar power was a cabalist and created the solar cell according to cabala and he mentions Nigel Savage who set up a Kazan a massive movement in the United States which is the Jewish lab for sustainability and he says funly enough all three now live in Israel and his point is that there is real overlap between Jewish thinking and Jewish values and cl the you know concern about the climate the notion of shmar resting the land Etc is really in touch uh with the the you know the the sharpest thinking on the environment so you know this is a discussion in that sense right right I mean you know quite literal physical repair of the world and so thank you to Robbie um for for writing we do get I I heard two things from that letter by the way one is ju Rock second is you have a connection to Sarah Silverman that's what I that's what I took from all of you you know no you are quite right cuz I did know we're going to do Jewish geography I did know Yosi abovich when I lived in Washington and that's all true when Yosi abramovitz married Sarah Silverman's sister um she Sarah Silman went on Saturday Night Live and said so my you know sister's getting married and their children are they're going to be very egalitarian so their children will be called you know whatever Abramovich Silverman or in other words Jew because what could be a more Jewish name than AB brovich anyway he is a great Pioneer in solar matters and so you know even if Israelis aren't doing all the recycling there is a kind of Jewish take on the climate Cris yeah and I'm going to add in because we were discussing the budget that there's a tax in this budget introduced to reduce uh uh single use comp uh consumption right Israel produces like twice the international average of plastic waste per person a day so this is obviously going to uh change uh the equation although it is also seen as something that is a move that hurts the AL Orthodox Community we'll put a pin in that but we will in future in a very uh close episode discuss the situation between this Coalition and the ultra Orthodox because that's a whole big mess that we should talk about but you've got we will but you got to get onto the thing of the plastic the double use of single use plastic why Israel uses so much single use plastic in terms of plates and Cutlery and all the rest of it who's the group who are using it there is a large community of ultra Orthodox in this country uh more than a million when you have eight or nine or 10 children Jonathan I just have three and I understand the lure of single day plastic uh use right if you have that many children and a dishwasher is an issue because of kashrut uh on an issue because it costs a lot of money then you are bound to use a lot of these plastic uh uh plates and plastic utensils by the way the night of this tax uh actually becoming a law you had long lines of ultra Orthodox you know waiting to buy this at half price before the the price goes up so yes generally speaking I'd say Israelis are not focused enough on this issue but specifically when you have that big a population uh that uses this on a day-to-day basis and that's those are the numbers you're going to get I mean and most ends up in the beaches I can verify and corroborate the hared usage of single plastic and plastic plates and Cutlery I say no more about the bags of rubbish that I see on my street I say no more but just to verify confirm and corroborate every word you have said there now the thing about these I mentioned before that one of the interesting things about the summit was that you know there was Israel doing something other than the conflict um and that was partly because naali Bennett was being asked about Israel's handling of covid uh but there was also um you know Israel sort of made the news and British ministers here were talking about the Israeli delegation to the cop 26 Summit for other reasons yeah I mean you know if if we were giving out Awards just for the Glasgow Summit I think the Korean lar story the story of the minister of energy in Israel would get the the organizers of the cop 26 hutp award I mean right Israel's Minister who can't enter because she's in a wheelchair so yeah let's save the planet but please don't do it from a wheelchair how is it possible that this place is not wheelchair accessible I think this was hugely embarrassing for the hosts actually um you know just the story went around that there was the energy Minister who could not get into the conference and had to go back to her hotel because she was disabled and it was interesting I thought just because you know there will be all these people in British Progressive circles who would want to normally attack the government for not having full access to all delegates but found themselves sort of hesitating because what don't we kind of want to boycott Israel anyway and maybe they shouldn't be at the summit so how outraged can I get I hate the Tories for barring people because of disability on the other hand I can't get that outraged that Israeli wasn't allowed to take part so I I felt there was a bit of tongue tied uh hesitancy among some of our friends on social media about this issue more yeah who do we dislike exactly but but um but it was you know the British ministers were hauled before uh BBC microphones to explain themselves and to say how they done and there was no good answer I mean it is embarrassing right and then prime minister had to apologize Boris Johnson had to apologize to her if we are on the issue of you know it's not our official mench but let's give a mench if we're talking about the summon let's give a mench award to our favorite Chancellor Angela Merkel who brought along her likely successor Ola Schulz to the meetings thus emphasizing continuity of course he's from a rival party I mean he used to be part of the Coalition but still I mean just compare that to the 30 minute Handover netan allocated Nali Bennett and you see that that is quite a uh quite a quite a move on her part I think it was quite sweet and it kind of take your successor to work day um it had that sort of vibe about it um because she's been around so long and he's gonna continue but I agree with you there was something very civilized about uh you know letting the letting him have some on the job experience exactly and we will I spoiler alert the succession word will come up later in our program as well yes exactly U for fans of succession stay with us we have our very own take on that all right so that's cop 26 which is a big deal and continues um because the negotiators are still at work for I think at least another week but we thought I thought we should talk um about uh events in what is Europe's biggest Jewish Community uh not here in Britain but in France where things have taken a really extraordinary turn because every time a French presidential election looms people worry always about the Leen factor and it's you know in 2002 and again last time where a Leen either the father Jean Marie or the daughter marine is on the ballot and you know the everyone uh who isn't a govern nationalist or a fascist adjacent thinks let's rally to defeat the Leen well now there is a challenge to Leen from the right a Ultra nationalist who has said things I have to say as offensive as the kinds of things you hear out of the Leen Dynasty except he is a Jew and we are talking about Eric zore a French Jew of Algerian origin who is some people say is a cross between Donald Trump and Tua C he's a journalist he's in his 60s um but he has a TV talk show in a kind of tuer Carlson way and he is being talked up as a potential presidential candidate there is huge interest and sort of energy uh in in his in the possibility that he might run he had a book out in September it immediately sold 100,000 copies in its first week the title is France has not yet said her last word uh ultranationalist even Jean Marie Leen himself AG 93 has said that he will um back zamore he's fallen out with his daughter there's you know it's not just Jewish families that yeah she's a bit too moderate for himit too modate liing he says Leen says he says what I think he's talking about Eric he says what I think but to a larger audience the only difference between Eric and me is that he is Jewish it is difficult to call him a Nazi or a fascist this gives him more freedom yeah you know this is just a a remarkable and even mind-boggling Story I mean first of all the comparison to Trump I would say he's a more sophisticated version of trump right I mean he's a what my friend in Paris would call a superficial intellectual you know he wrote history books he was a columnist a political pundit on television as you said um he's Trump with the French uh idiosyncrasies uh and that is important because when we're talking about a world in which we don't know which way the pendulum is swinging right are we moving to populism or to pragmatism you have this kind of populist 2.0 who's more refined not in content than Marine Leen but definitely in style I think that's something to note and of course the main sort of twist here in all this kind of Twisted story is the fact that he is indeed Jewish now it's it's amazing I the thing that the things that he is saying right that the vishi regime actually protected French Jews which is unbelievably offensive right we're 26 years after Jac shiak admitted uh the France's complicity with the Nazis acknowledging the nation's role and deportation of Jews he's saying that Alfred draus may not be innocent this is a dog whistle and signaling to the far right he's saying that French children Jewish children killed in a terror attack in tulo are not properly French because they were buried in Israel this is beyond offensive and if it's anyone who wasn't Jewish you would say without hesitancy that this is anti-Semitic uh the fact that he is Jewish allows him I think sadly or tragically to say these things and kind of get away with it right I mean that is I think what is most most appalling about him I agree completely I mean I let's add him by the way to our list of journalists and TV personalities who must not be allowed anywhere near power I know this is a an enduring theme of our I mean it is hard to choose what what is the most offensive of things he has said I mean that defense of the vichi regime and suggesting you know oh no they they only wanted to deport foreign Jews not French born ones and again that's totally at odds uh with the facts but this L on draus as you mention saying you know we will never know if he was innocent or not what a I think that to say I just going to sorry I was just going to say the thing about you mentioned about the children and the and their you know father killed in that terror attack in too the actual words are so chilling he says because they as you said because they were buried in Israel they were foreigners above all and wanted to stay that way even Beyond Death I mean that is so hideous as a thing to say about children who were the little girl famously pulled by the hair and then killed it is so appalling um and and yet I think there are going to be people who think well somehow it's legit because he's Jewish and there are French Jews who we know who are feeling very uh uh Under Pressure because of the rise in French anti-Semitism who will rally to a message that and this is Eric zor's main message of anti-muslim French nationalism and he's calling out French Muslims and there are constituency of French Jews some saying particularly Algerian and Moroccan Jews North African Jews Like Him who are ready to hear that message but I find it deeply chilling yeah but there is a group of of course many many Jews who you know I spoke to a friend who said you know I don't speak a word of Hebrew but the word I want to say is buha I'm embarrassed that this man uh is is is making inroads in in in you know in politics and again we we keep thinking I think that the sort of rational part of our brain is saying this can't happen right it's not going to happen in France right he doesn't have a political party yet by the way didn't neither did macron five years ago um and this can't happen but we live through uh 2016 we know that the inconceivable can become the inevitable this man can become president and I think that is we need to point out you know what he is saying what he's standing for by the way I listened to you know many many videos of his he's very compelling you're walking with this argument he goes through history you're like okay and then he says something terrible like we have to fight to the death against cancel culture right or all you know Arab million Arab Muslims hate France live in France but hate France all kinds of stuff that you are sort of appalled by by the way just to note uh this never goes without hand inand a television media Mogul uh in this uh uh case Von Bol who is the head of uh I would call him the French Rupert Murdoch or French Rupert Murdoch before the 2020 elections right who's supporting him he has this sort of Fox News uh channel that bsim is's also responsible for a lot of other Publications and and Etc so he's a very powerful man standing behind this I I would take this very very seriously I agree and I think two other reasons uh we one of the which we've mentioned why he might do much better than uh Jean Marie Jean Marie Leen or Marine Leen first of all he's not called Leen and I think part of that impulse that made the right the everyone except the right unite to block uh the leens was it was just a kind of um reflex that there was a habit there oh we know what to do that you know when a Leen is on the ballot everyone unites either behind Shirak or maon they do it that is not going to be there this time and second of all is the obvious one which is it is harder always harder to Brand a Jew a racist and anti-semite I know that the French Chief Rabbi has called him an anti-semite but it is harder when that person is Jewish and you know uh just I mean to add to the list Bernard R Levy the big French Jewish intellectual zamore calls him a traitor and a Cosmopolitan I mean those are you know those are not dog whistles those are kind of fog horns right we know what he's saying those are old anti-semitic tropes uh and yet zamore is able to do it and and yeah I I think there is zero room for complacency after we've seen what Trump can do um but this is the he has some other cards to play that make him actually even stronger yeah so uh shall we uh some lighten the mood with some infighting in New York among New York Jews you have you got auta autsa award to do out I always have a huta award Jonathan you can wake me up in the middle of the night I will have a huta award for you know you or anyone else if I do that I'll be on my bike and I'll be saying to you I'm cycling on E and I wanted just because I care about the environment and I wanted you to come up with this week's Hood Spa award nominated um so this story really reads like I mean I would say uh an HBO drama really it's the story of the succession New York's probably most famous wealthy important Shool the Park East synagogue on the Upper East Side now 91-year-old Arthur schneer is the synagogue's senior Rabbi who fired his very popular assistant Rabbi Benjamin goldshmid he's 34 years old uh and he was you know kind of generally seen as the wouldbe successor um the people who support the older rabbis say that Benjamin gmid basically tried to Stage a cud and failed now there's all kind of fishy money issues in this schneer serves as a full-time Rabbi he also draws salary from the foundation he runs his son has been married six times he's a sort of always on page six of the New York Post this whole story is unbelievable drama on the way and I think there's enough hpah to go around I mean it's the 34-year-old Rabbi who couldn't wait and couldn't be patient the 91-year-old rabbi who has no you know plans to either retire or say who his successor is you know and you kind of asked the question so who is responsible here the congregation the board the rabbi it's a big mess John so if Logan and Kendall Roy spoke Yiddish and were rabbis this is what the story would be o it's Logan oi instead of Logan Roy and you could do the whole story I really want to hear I want to have the soundtrack in with a kma band play can tell delicious David bashevkin on Twitter cast the whole story as a Hollywood film I'm not going to give it away because it's pretty amazing milakunis is there that's all I'm going to say that's oh that's no that is just too good um we meanwhile have to hand out a mench award um and I think I'm my nominee for this week will be students at George Washington University and particularly of a fraternity there it's not a Jewish fraternity but they had and they have Jewish members uh and part of the ritual of initiation at the tower Kappa Epsilon fraternity at gwu involved a replica sort of toy version of a safer tah which they kept in the basement the tourist scroll um last week the uh fraternity was attacked and vandalized by a gang of students who damaged the replica uh SAA and the Torah scroll and through detergent over it and ruined it I was about to say desecrated that's part of the question here because it wasn't a real safura which as we know is a hugely sacred object in Judaism it takes a year to hand inscribe every letter and even slight damage renders it immediately unkosher um there's an argument going on at the University about whether or not this was an anti-semitic attack or whether it was just random students randomly being drunken and violent but it was noticed that a Christian bias a new testament soal uh in the fraternity B fraternity basement was not damaged and so look either way um I think the menture war goes to students there who did uh react and marched uh in solidarity with the students at that fraternity and said that this was uh an attack that to be condemned and I think the reason why they get the mention W is even if let's say it was just random vandalism and it wasn't um a very deliberate attack on Jews you know and that's an if uh even if it wasn't nevertheless the solidarity they showed with Jewish students and suggesting that they understood why this would make Jewish students feel you know Under Siege a bit um and also the Jewish students there who just took it seriously and thought that you know you don't go around behaving this way I I think that's um worthy of note see this is why you do the mench you're so good at it it's such a good good nominee no we're going we're not going to we're not going to get into any fixed roles on this it will be hoods for me next time I know I promise maybe may have exaggerated my complaint last time um so we are winding up our uh discussion Jonathan I will have you know that Israel now accepts tourists who have been vaccinated so no excuses no excuses just saying no excuses at all it will happen it will happen imminently and then we will be fa to face across a single microphone I look for and then like a Jewish mother that you are must add you can tell me again that I don't eat enough we can go through the whole thing again um so we shall meet next week and we shall give our thank yous to Leo fedman our executive producer R head of podcasts om primat and for original music and we are grateful to all of you who have been giving us very high five-star review um ratings on um the various platforms do write a review if you can partly just because we do love to see what you think uh and that will be great and um and recommend us to your friends and we'll see each other next week see you y oh