Ordinal SEC Club

[Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] all my gu he doesn't even have [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] going on here I'm Troy KAC I am a big F nobody this is my son bit God and that's my other son Elmo savis or Saves the World guys what's going on this week uh I think everybody thinks we're dead like for ketamine there thank you ketamine yeah ketamine man you're man after my own heart puppets man um we're here oh we got a lot to talk about [ __ ] what's a fractal uh what happened to runes where's Casey what happened to that red phone I used to call him on the production is suffering um other than that I'm going to let you guys talk the produ is suffering production is suffering over oh what happened there we got another angle we're [ __ ] up I don't know what's going on i' I've heard we're suffering from budget uh budget defit here yeah that's obviously because ordinals are this is a Sho string budget that's why you know who I blame iame no Sho shes those are expensive though so can we donate those to the show here come on now oh shoot that almost took something out there did your Vape fall out of your shoe just now yeah no he hasn't shoes he like leather socks this is a more lack show today right this is a more lacked show we we covered a ton of topics last week and there hasn't really been much happening and so we're just kind of like but at the same time no not really every everything is happening SEC Securities nft hide your wife hide your kids like what's going on here what what are we tackling first what's the easiest lift guys I mean we always want to start with the hardest though right let's do it like I want to go in there hard oh yeah bent to the left okay this is a children show oh my gosh man well the hardest would would that be the wells notice I think the taxes the tax o let's go guys I guess right now [ __ ] yeah get us up to speed on the taxes what happened Elmo uh I mean ultimately I this has kind of been like a rumor that's been going on for quite some time and definitely like a policy that uh KLA Harris's you know oh well obviously taxes are always a big subject of of conversation when it comes to election news right so um recent Rec l or not so recently I guess kamla has proposed that uh there's going to be attacks on unrealized gains now ultimately if you guys are uninitiated and you don't know what unrealized gains are for the people that are watching um unrealized gains are are are essentially profits that um you have off of things that you haven't sold yet right um so typically the government will tax you on um sales of things right so if you hold something for like a year or two or whatever and you're more of a long-term investor um maybe you can get 50% or 100% or whatever a th% Returns on something but you want to squeeze you know the most out of your investment maybe you hold it for like a year or two or whatever right and that kind of carries into uh multiple tax years right um but at the end of the day unrealized gains would or the tax on unrealized gains would essentially tax people on sales that have not yet been finished right that have not yet been settled well I guess I guess I'm really uh I'm really I guess in the clear because since the start of 2024 all I've done is lost money so I'm gonna be good I'm I'm incredibly four now so I'm good but but Troy look at your clothes bro I know but Troy to you I know you're in favor of this right I know you're in favor of this you know unre want to get taxed on unreal yeah you love taxes uh you love taxes I I will I've beaten three audits I've beaten three audits in the office at the IRS in New York City I think it's on 44th Street I forget um and but not to get into my personal life it's um I'm not a big F nobody's a big fan of the unrealized gains part it's like let us play ball when it's fair that I'm actually cashing this out and then we can talk but like to do this on an unrealized gain I think you're just it's another form of stealing from us every opportunity I mean they're literally creating fake money out of thin air and then we have to pay the fake money that we're you know working for out of thin air to to back to them and I just think I I don't know it's just like I I I have a really big issue with that it's just another way like why do you think people are [ __ ] robbing other people why do you think people are are like stealing and stuff like that what like it just doesn't make sense but yet you're going to have laws in California that lets like say um misdemeanor account uh misdemeanor um uh level went up to 950 bucks in California so you can steal that much money before you get a felony like it just doesn't make sense like what they're relaxed on and what they're not relaxed on I feel like that's kind of always been the law though right um I actually was the victim of somebody uh stealing um money from like an old business that I I had back in the day and when I approached the authorities right I basically told them like this guy had stole like $3,000 or whatever for my business and they were like okay so for every $950 or $1,000 that's a felony so and this and this was in the state of Idaho right so I don't know you know if that's just like full out like rhetoric or whatever when it comes to the whole misdemeanor thing to felony uh Grand Theft kind of like uh line that needs to be crossed there but like the I think the whole idea of taxing unrealized gains is just scary period for anybody that's investing and I think the current state of our economy right now um is in such a way that like people feel like they have to figure out ways to escape the current inflation situation that we're in right now right and usually the best way to do that is to put your money your hard-earned money into some sort of investment vehicle and so um you know maybe not everybody's investing so this doesn't necessarily apply to everybody but it's definitely a lot more people a lot more people now are investing and putting their money in investment vehicles that can potentially outpace inflation than ever before right and that also kind of has to do with the the Advent of you know trading platforms like on your phone yeah on your phone like Weeble or Robin Hood or coinbase Oro yeah literally anything right theyve all Incorporated some way to help you potentially outpace inflation with if you're looking at like politics let's say so you got you know you got um you got let's call let's call Trump the orange Cube okay sorry well you know he's crypto friendly right he's running on that part of that platform well yeah even though it's not one of the top 20 things in his list of what he's going to do but then you have the the the Democratic side that are just trying to like end that right so and a lot of people in the world aren't in the field that we're in there's a lot lot of big-timers the big money is in crypto but that's not everybody in the world they're not even onboarded so you have like they're they're digging in from the left to like crush this and they're not they're not even shying away from that so it's just that there there's that so they're going hard on that and they're doing it up before the before the election that's that's something I pay attention to and then when you have these platforms that are like these itical platforms like tax the rich they're they're not really taxing the rich they're taxing like I mean Bezos May made 1.7 Million last year as an employee of his own company that that's what he is on paper like as an employ that that that's what he submits for his taxes not as the business entity so that's how these rich people get away with that kind of stuff so for the little people that are making gains and have life-changing things like you have a a new shitcoin caller who wasn't who was broke last year now he's he's got a million dollars but he's not cashing that out yet he's going to reinvest it so you're not really rich yet you know you you just have a bunch of jpegs that you're not cashing I don't know what my point is but I mean that that's literally the the the concept of unrealized gains right it's like and that's that's where the Dilemma comes in you know it's like there's going to be a lot of people uh that like roundtrip bags you know if they hold them over two years or whatever and so like maybe one year they're up a million and maybe the next year that million dollar position is worth like a couple thousand but you had to pay 25% taxes on that million dollar position because that coming tax year you had this new you know uh tax law that basically said that you have to give up 25% of whatever that million dollars is now I have heard that um and I and I don't know if this is accurate or not but they're saying that that will only be applicable to people making $100 million or more a year which is like a very very very small slice of That Pie as far as like tax brackets go so it could just be another scare tactic I think it's something that we should be taking into consideration yeah go ahead what about the fact that like if you if this does only apply to people over hundred million like how many of those people could easily just move out of the country and become an xat like overnight you know I think there there'll be many countries that will gladly take you know those people with that level of income as well as those level of assets and so like I don't know I think I think that this is always going to be a problem and I think that just you know going over 100 it doesn't solve anything honestly it just you know it does nothing it just makes it inhospitable for people that are of a wealthy position to come in and reinvest within this this nation that we have that we love so much right so I I just think I I just think we're getting like as general Americans in this country I think we're just getting kicked while we're down and it's just like get let people make their money believe me they will spend it in Commerce in this country for the most part like it it but you're you're taking what do you mean though it's just like if if I'm if I'm making a a million if I made a million dollars off of a sale right now and you take in California you take 50% of that like first of all why do you get all that like why do you get all of that because you're literally every dollar that you print is a dollar in their direction right so everything is in their Direction but now you get 50% of that that's almost uninspiring even my brother my brother is a small business owner but yet he's made millions of dollars it's you got to hit certain brackets to where it's actually benefiting you as like say the billionaires that it's working in your favor how to how to get into the loopholes of not paying as much tax it's you know and it's just it's just like you they're not letting a lot of people win and it's and a lot of people if this is a if this is an ad to like not move to to America this would be it I think I think that like I think you have the most opportunity though to to win you know here rather than you know other countries like like the tax code the tax codes it's it's it's huge now right it went from I think being like 60 or so pages to now 13 you know, 1300 I don't know 1300 pages so right it's it's it's crazy right but if you have the ability right and you are able to make like you're saying a crazy sale then I think like one of the best things you can do is invest in both a great accountant as well as a great lawyer abut and like I think I think you have the opportunity to do that like like which accountant is is you or what which accountants out there are like yeah you just made a bunch of money I'm not going to talk to you like like there are people out there that are that are can definitely help you manage these loopholes and all of that is accessible here other countries I don't think that that's as accessible it's it's not and the opportunity to make that money as well like is is here but but at the same sorry to cut you off pal sure the but at the same time like my tax person from New York right so I've been there mostly Mo most of my life on the East Coast when I moved to LA 10 years ago I was her last she doesn't want to work with anybody who works or does taxes that wants to work with her from California sure but but now that crypto came in a few years ago when I started doing my crypto taxes she did she did them for a couple years and she'll still do them but it's a [ __ ] headache because there's reconcil you have to reconcile a bunch of things there's a new platforms like nft tax calculator or whatever like that and she's got to go through like Stacks and stacks of more things in a different sector it's just a big headache they they just like the old Fiat tax thing they they they got their their their their their machine of their business has been working on Fiat tax sure and now there's this new thing so it's you can find them out there and there are crypto tax lawyers and and accountants but it's just not I guess that's what I'm saying though is that like that to me isn't really you know I think the the bigger problem I could get behind is if people don't have the opportunity right to make to make money if you have that opportunity you know that's I think what's most important you know and C's being you know complaining over you know having to to go through you know miles of paper whatever like find a different accountant that's you know that's down to do a younger accountant that's like [ __ ] yeah I'll do that you H yeah you know the bigger problem is when you don't have opportunity and that's I think the biggest problem I see in many other countries is you don't have the opportunity but do we do we know that for a fact that's another thing that's another thing that I'm very well aware of where it's like like I I know you've lived in like different countries or poent you know like me personally I lived in the United States my entire life right so my head would tell me that America is the most fertile ground for opportunity but I also see places like you know Dubai and what whatnot that are offering essentially zero tax on income you know and they're throwing billions of dollars at Industries essentially seeing America's current current weakness and trying to capitalize on that and their and and fashion it into their own like you know advantage and growing their their economy right and so it's like I see things like that and I understand obviously there's different anical rules that may be governing governing those people over there but like I don't know I I I think people should definitely keep an open mind about this subject and not just say that America is just the best because statistically out there like the only the only thing that America is number one in currently right now is in incarcerations right which is not something that Rings true to me as a land of opportunity if the majority of your people are incarcerated and facing some sort of Le legal repercussions over whatever you know like that just just that number and that data itself is not something that tells me that this is a land of opportunity so you know and not not did they just passed the law recently like a couple days ago in California like our tax money is now like helping a lot of immigrants like the Venezuelans I don't want to talk this you know but like they're coming here and they're they're they're they're taking over neighborhoods especially in Aurora Colorado look it up and and that how does that stomach how does that what does that do to your stomach when you're just fighting to pay your own taxes and live afloat and keep the lights on when we're giving where our tax dollars are going to these people that are just the door is open to come over here but yet a lot of them are criminals and and like it's just that like it it's like that's happening but I'm at the tax office paying while my house is getting robbed it's just like this is It's kind of [ __ ] I mean I know it's far away from nfts but this opened up the the the conversation um but uh yeah but I mean it's it's not super far away from n nfts right because we're in kind of in like this weird tax situation working within this highly volatile what's it so so um by the way Spirit uh I just want to look at some of the people in the chat Spirit that's so funny because me and my brother are looking to buy an avocado Farm in Columbia um so yeah um what's up CB uh 198 spirit Spirit I too invest in backyard avocados uh I I think that was a shout out to me but also I I love his comment that he had over there where he says oh you you got huge okay cool cooli must have just landed in Chicago where do I claim my unrealized losses I love that that's [ __ ] hilarious I mean yeah but this this is a messy very political conversation that you know has like us three on the stage probably don't have the Silver Bullet solution to any of these things but it's interesting to open up a conversation we don't uh to the people in the chat you know a lot of you all of you we know we'd actually don't yes there's Tech we're on spaces for Tech and the fractals which we'll get to and and all these things but we don't it's like we're afraid or don't have spaces with the same minds and the builders and the artists as people talking about this stuff which I think we should a lot some time for even though you think it's a worthless thing well [ __ ] dude like there's some other [ __ ] going on in the world not just taxes but like some ominous [ __ ] going on in a lot of sectors you know Wars over there Israel Lebanon and I mean it's just it's just crazy we're we're like I think man does anybody care about their life are they afraid that something's going to happen besides taxes so other than that you know we we had this conversation the other day Troy and um I I think uh in these specific politically tense times like that always come during election years I think the best thing to do is to remember that like there's a lot lot of rhetoric being pumped into social media into your favorite media Outlets whatever it is right then all that rhetoric is essentially there to confuse you and scare you and steer you in the most extreme direction that you could possibly go so the best thing you can do at this time right now is to take everything into account take everything with a grain of salt but also understand that like there's scops going on and if you buy into them it can make you go [ __ ] crazy so if you can keep your hand steady and you can chill out and you can like you know take everything with a assault and and and not have this like visceral reaction to it I think it'll benefit I do like Chad's take he hasn't said it yet but he set it on a call yesterday he goes I think we stay here and fight and I don't mean it's like hey go get an Arsenal but who knows um but just like hey don't leave until you have all the facts like facts that's a loose thing but like I I have a great mentor in in film you know and he was like find out all the information then make your move you don't know as much as you can to be able to make a move um you know when I say move I don't mean move out of the country but that could be that thing too is that dude I'm thinking about you know my daughter I'm thinking about where my mom's at my brother's at how do you talk them into what you're thinking like hey do you want to like get a place somewhere else out there as another option just to like be together kind of thing um but anyway maybe I'm future tripping but dude this is this is our future you know um yeah I guess I think my you know comment to it was not you know I think and I think I only realized that once after after you know Elmo was like well you know Civil Wars you know the facts are true but uh more so I was saying like stay and sort of fight I think with your voice right like I think that that and your voice is is is in a number of things right it can be on of course social media it can be in in you know how you vote all that sort of stuff um I think that that's really really important rather than you know I think which is just a bit of an easier route right like I have another passport I could just go live somewhere else for for the rest of my life um I think that you know furthermore everything is really cyclical and so I think like what we're seeing now and I think the maybe extremism in you know some places of the world including the US is a you know it's a cyclical thing I think in in another 20 years it could be entirely different right it could be that we're in maybe some sort of depression uh like do not have you know a ton of of uh you know excess I don't know right I think it could be totally different and maybe at that point it'll be it's time to move out but I don't know that's the way I think about it um if I can say one last thing about this in comparative like zooming out and comparing it to like look what the story is here like so if you if you like there's a lot of people in the space that look at a project let's say and they feel like they can run it better or they have thoughts and they should because if you've been at a job and there's 50 of you let's say you're a waiter you like the the it's like the Asylum ends up running the place because they feel like they know better than the founder or the owner right that's the way I see the government it's like you can believe in who you believe in but you if you're not ever doubting them at one point because they're a human you don't know what's going beyond beyond the Iron Curtain or beyond the backdrop like if you're not judging that and you're totally having faith you have lost your voice you always want to be like the masses us humans d trading whatever that that common big ass Collective is bigger than the 1% that's running all this stuff so like keep an open mind and look past the [ __ ] superficial whatever we're being presented and and you know just got to be balanced and [ __ ] like well I mean and that's one of the biggest reasons why we we do see a massive influx of like immigrants coming into the the country right it's all because um this idea of democracy that that America's been built on is is one that you don't find all around the world right and so that that is what you know that's at least what I took from BG when we were talking yesterday when he said you know we got to stay here and fight it's like you got to fight for what you love you're here in America and you love America for those reasons of of political freedom and the freedom of speech and democracy and all these things and even though they might be under Fire in various ways right now leaving is not going to solve that right and it's not going to better that situation that's what that's what uh uh spirit says I'm not [ __ ] leaving by cowards and c and CB I I feel like Boshi had a maybe a weird boner that's all I could possibly see coming from the apron just to answer your question I don't know no he definitely had stuff behind there stuff he has some some stuff some junkies some junk yeah yeah and I mean I think it's also about Legacy too right like you know you've to me I mean listen I don't I don't always swing that way but go but on television but yeah when IR Alpha says so go no uh but back to like a no all I was all I was saying was like it's also about it's also about Legacy I think in in some way like you know how many movies and TV shows have you done here in the US right in Hollywood a lot you know and like you know you go to I know you were kind of talking about some some country in in South America you know you go there what's their sort of history with with movies and like you know all that stuff um it could be somewhat somewhat lost in in the legacy of of Troy if you know you move I don't know it's just that's a scary thing like the the the the fact that some people come to this country by like good-hearted people by themselves no family here at all like girls or guys that's a [ __ ] they have balls yeah like I don't know if I could just you know my daughter she's not a little kid she's 23 she has her own life but like I don't want to be not near her you know what I mean that's my immediate family you know that's like I don't have 12 kids I don't I I don't have two kids but like to go to Columbia and just kind of like I'd have to acquest to that over time and know like the ins and outs of like not just the history on paper but like do I feel grounded in this society and stuff like that so there's a lot that we're unpacking here and I like how Loosey Goosey it was but definitely [ __ ] important um other than that um yeah thank you see bless why why you always bless always has some uh love you bless um you talk about bless right yeah let's talk about bless um so the after effects so unless uh if you don't know this yet then you're [ __ ] sleeping under a rock or you went camping for a couple of weeks um this young man um has become not just a friend but like I'm just like yielding to his thoughts and and what and what what he's done but he locked himself up in a in a in a in a basically an art gallery with no windows and and and fasted uh just water and Drew about a 100 assets 3D iconic things in his style and um and he did it and um it's it's slowly becoming very newsworthy beyond our little crypto bubble yeah and uh it's probably going to reach web to here in in a it's not it's something that you can't stop it's uh you got documentation you're going to make a film about it kind of thing and uh like I don't know man I think he's going to be I I feel like at Art Basel I think you were saying something like that could you see like no but just like I can see him in AR bowel like for a week have you seen the David Blaine ex exhibit but it's really like blessed just you know not doing any tricks but just like doing like that's that that is like something to behold you know yeah yeah no it was it was a pretty amazing uh project to embark on uh super ambitious on his behalf um in fact that project when he pitched it to me was like the main reason that I decided to journey into ordinals and and take a look at ordinals and then that eventually led into me creating you know orange Cube and uh which is you know the online Gallery uh that deal specifically with like ordinal inscriptions but I mean the the whole the whole idea was pretty [ __ ] crazy right um it like I said super ambitious um I went into it being like you know what man like he made it very clear to me that he was going to embark on this thing where he was going to essentially fast for seven days and um create art and just only create art for those seven days in a warehouse somewhere um and I thought the idea was cool but um you know there was some moments of hesitation where I was like oh I don't know you know like is this something I should be involved in because it seems kind of outlandish and like what if he gets hurt and there's all these liabilities and whatnot I mean because part of it also was him being in augmented reality for seven days straight which no one has done like really like that's not something that you see typically I mean you see people like living in virtual reality or whatever for seven days but not like sleeping with with the goggles on you know and having your augmented reality looking like one of the band members from the early Strokes like he's wearing a [ __ ] shirt and tie pants and not like sweatpants you know you know what I mean the the the other thing is very it's a very minimalistic approach like the other you know he tweeted the other day about silence like he learned something from this that was just one thing right that that he's not just doing it for likes and stuff like that and and but like let me show your orange Cube for a little bit and because these two guys right here they're like art heavy they both have art platforms right this guy's working with like super you know like you know movers and shakers but like he's very thoughtful about what he's doing and then you have orange Cube and and two outputs that you've put is tantan tantan gaming art unbelievable work I mean I couldn't believe how inexpensive this thing was and then you have this performance art thing those are two out of the out of two projects out of the gate of course blesses wasn't for sale it was it was more not yet not yet not but but like out of the gate like what can like what can people expect I know some I know I think I know who's coming up next but is like how do people get in touch with you besides DMS and like what what would it take to be a part of and and like part of orange Cube and and also like what would it take do do people have to be famous in and getting noise and have to do beeble type of sales to be with um with with um with uh art Bitcoin art housee um because earlier you were talking about today right before the show you were like we we we should be a gateway to find like artists should be able to pick and choose where they wanted like whether it's Gamma or this project or that platform or that platform but I like the idea that not everybody's going to fit in Orange Cube not everybody's going to fit in Bitcoin ouse and and but but they'll fit somewhere yeah I I think I think what's interesting about the art world is like like uh it's notorious for Pigeon huling people so it's like if you paint yourself into a corner as like you know like bless he was an augmented reality sculptor right like he he likes to sculpt an augmented reality well that like if he were to essentially create a professional career and build a professional career off that like and tried to break outside of creating things in augmented reality the art World wouldn't be very lenient towards that right they would be like why are you doing performance art you're an AR sculptor right so um like the the interesting thing about that is like they try to create these hierarchies within art itself um to say that like maybe one art um is a little bit better than the other because it has these conceptual narratives behind it and maybe this one it might be aesthetically pretty but like it doesn't necessarily fit within the Contemporary Art narrative like these are all things that essentially happen here me personally when I look at Art I understand that art is different on fundamental levels like some art is conceptual some art is street art some art is uh digital in nature like just because these things fit Within These specific categories doesn't mean that they can't cooperate with each other and exist in and and kind of be equals in their own respects and so when when it comes to uh like bless here for this specific situation he's kind of broken outside of this web three space andau the attention of some web two people yeah I'm brewing with some some ideas here so I keep keep seeing I keep seeing blessed with his his googly eyes and and and and here's where I'm leading to with this okay is that Bitcoin friendly countries first of all bless not only should be doing stuff and he probably already thinking about it in El Salvador um and also Bali which n you know I'm working with something with on with Bali you know the ordinance are doing something on the back back in the back channels but but but the key onboarded the country of Bali to ordinals like government approved like I I've had meetings with the government officials that like they have a lot of artists over there that don't get seen in the world right so that's another Bitcoin friendly country bless I hope to see you in Bali uh let alone salad also uh the United Arab Emir Emirates right UAE um they they just announced recently that like you know they're creating like a massive effort not only to support digital art within their space but I believe they're are going to be opening um a Guggenheim which till this day was just in freaking um New York right and it's like a New York museum institution but they're actually going to be building one over in I believe uh either Abu Dhabi or uh Dubai right I I can't remember off the top of my head but like the fact that like there's these countries that are essentially trying to open up their space to also be a cultural pillar for the rest of the world in in this Art Space which is kind of interesting one more thing and I want I want to hear from uh Chad is that so last year somebody made a take on like you know you got Art Basel right but you have like Fine Art world right and then you have the web 3 nft projects and some artist digital artist of course I saw a lot of you know um but the two sectors don't really meet and have wine and cheese together but if you have a performance art thing like like what bless just did if that isn't a meeting place for conversation of like oh you're also in digital art and onchain stuff like that in the same spot I think at Art basil or something even even you know something as big as that where you you have these old you fine art World talking with digital artists on chain world but with like the centerpiece of performance art not just blessed like that would be a great [ __ ] kickoff but other performance artists or just you see artists that are in our e system performing not performing but like drawing in their own laboratory sense in in a live Gallery space with uh the Fine Art world and also the digital Enthusiast world like on chain like I think that would be [ __ ] awesome yeah and when it when it comes to digital art like for the longest time I I think when it comes to the Contemporary Art world and the Fine Art world or whatever you want to call it um like the the thing that really kind of keeps those wheels turning and that economy going is uh paintings right like that is the main like medium that people like to purchase they like to put paintings in their house and so this idea of like digital art when it came it kind of started like coming around towards you know the 70s with early generative art but then also becoming more popular uh during like the early 2000s late 90s with the net art and post net art movement I think um there was like this separation where the Fine Art world tried to essentially say like yeah that's cool but like it's not a painting right so it's it's difficult to track like you know before blockchain there was a lot of people that were essentially just like putting that digital art on like a thumb drive or whatever and then that that work can also be replicated as many times as humanly possible with no way to track it and sold to the highest bidder right and I've seen a lot of artists actually kind of come across these troubles even now today by not putting their work on the blockchain and trying to sell digital art and dependently through their galleries um and you know some of these artists are like oh yeah you know I got a different thumb drive back that I gave to my gallery and they told me it didn't sell but I get the feeling that they did sell it to somebody and they just gave me a shitty [ __ ] thumb drive before and these are problems right but like um there there's like this whole hierarchy that's kind of like built into this stuff but like when it comes to things like this where bless is trying to essentially merge the two yes and figure out how to not only innovate within his sector of of cre art on chain but also kind of like move the conversation forward and and move this this and dive into this culturally relevant um topic of live streaming and and you know basically I mean we're we're seeing it popularized on [ __ ] everything I mean we're live streaming currently right now right like live streaming is a very relevant topic and so like kind of like mixing that into his work and breaking out and trying to do something different I I think is really cool and it's caught a lot of attention um we're going to be on a a a show tomorrow we're going to be on a Twitter space tomorrow with Noah Becker the guy who who's the founder and owner of white hot magazine who's been around since I want to say like 2005 2007 or something like that and this guy has been like an Institutional name within the art World kind of like promoting new artists within this space and I think that's just like the start and I think like you know when the ordinal show happened last week or this past Monday then you're hearing bless you're hearing his voice right the artist I think more people outside of this ecosystem need to when they see hear or see powerful [ __ ] and then they hear the artist who's not dead then you go okay I'm gonna pay attention that's that's how this person talks doesn't sound like a jerk you can see where his head is going kind of thing or her head is going that's what's important like getting to meet these people you went to Switzerland the the real basil this P this this in this year what was your experience and like what was the out there to like do a taste test like what was going on for you and why did you go out there to basil and Switzerland yeah so I thought Switzerland was was amazing it's my home country uh it's your it's your what country my home country oh yeah my homeland I'm swits oh you really Swiss and I'm my Swiss passport um so yeah it was it was awesome right I got to see some family yeah um and then also do you know some work um the goal out there was to to you know meet as many artists and really galleries as possible did both of those things I mean the main Art Basel conference is like four floors uh and 900 galleries or so so it's just like I mean you're just art art like you're surrounded by it and you're surrounded of course by people that are really interested in this as well whether it's collecting um you know selling Etc um so that was ultimately the goal they also had a web three component component there right and that was mainly sponsored by tasos tasos was really the main sponsor for for art basil and I think I talked about it when I got back but it wasn't really I think the best showing that you could have had from a web 3 you know presence or experience yeah you know just putting you know just putting um monitors on the walls and then you know sort of hoping or expecting there'll be crossover right or people interested in in what we're doing is I don't think G to work right there needs to be an experience there right there needs to be something like what blessed did right that merges the the Two Worlds right like you can have a live stream but he can also be working on you know something that's that's you know eventually built on bitcoin he doesn't even need to ever mention that it's being built on bitcoin right I'm so glad he's working on something that that's related to that and like then eventually you have a mint and if people that that did watch live stream would like to learn more they can right as well as the people that are watching it because they're they're Bitcoin native they can go and mint it right um and so I think like things like that um I think are ultimately what will will move move the need as well as just like doing things that are cool right like making it cool to do um things on bitcoin right merging art as well as as general culture with you know Bitcoin is I think where you're going to have some success right so yeah um I I yeah well said I just think that uh outside of this ecosystem a lot of people are saying no hate to any of these people but like there's a lot of Traders here it keeps the the the economy healthy but you got a lot of [ __ ] [ __ ] totally you got a lot of [ __ ] who like yeah it's a free speech kind of you know whatever but it doesn't really say free to be an [ __ ] but but I guess that comes with it and it it just gets a bad name is like some of these people who come from like you know the the web 2 world of like trying to do something important with art and stuff like that is like why would to [ __ ] with those those dumbass [ __ ] people that talk in such a way when there are great people here that are actually holding spaces that aren't like uh number go up uh we're doing a giveaway it's just like we're we're dissecting and debating and and and having a conversation I think that's a really good point that you made and that's a point that bless was trying to like tap into when he did his performance piece and ultimately like his performance piece was a response to people continuously hounding him for extra utility on top of his art right and people don't understand because we do live in like this hyper volatile um you know market and we do exist within this market and trade within this Market people look for Extra Value props yeah to essentially boost you know their bags or their Holdings and whatever their position is and what he was trying to say is like I don't have to what what I'm doing is I'm giving you art I'm giving you the purest thing that I have to offer and that is my creation ativity right and and some people I mean like a lot of you were here over the bare market right you guys didn't go you guys were here during the bare Market you guys understand that like for the most part nobody was buying [ __ ] 10ks or any sort of pfps during the bar Market people were buying art right the only thing that you could sell during the bare Market was Art right it was a more or less kind of like a a a more stable you know holder of value than any of these other you know super volatile uh things or assets or whatever you want to [ __ ] call them that were you know inscribed on eth or whatever right like people wanted art like that was the thing that continuously moved because it it it resonated on people or resonated with people on levels Beyond um volatility and numberg go up technology right and so he's trying to tap into that and he was trying to essentially say like listen you're looking for utility here's my utility and it's art right and and and and like I said like it I mean it might be like like the performance piece was obviously like really cool and it was cool to watch him tap into creativity for those seven days and it was even cooler for me personally as not only like a friend but like someone that was helping him out with this project to watch like over the course of seven days him actually mature as an artist and like these ideas start to kind of like um grow and you know blossom into like new stuff right like it was really cool for me but like you know like people got to understand that uh a lot of these artists are out here and they're they're struggling to make a buck and the only thing they have to offer is Art and to be honest with you a lot of their art is a lot better than any 10K pfp project that you'll ever be able to buy yeah yeah they they just like don't [ __ ] stop like do you cannot stop like you just can't there's a lot of you there's a lot of actors like I didn't stop but like not everybody is going to make it but you can't think like that yeah you if you're going to do this just keep getting hungry that said I love how we just covered a lot of [ __ ] [ __ ] naturally about this stuff cuz we um we don't we don't go 30 minutes on on Art a lot which I think we we we can definitely do that but let's get into we got a a few minutes left let's get into like fractal um Bells ecosystem just a little bit I can touch on that Bells all right so Bells okay so we're [ __ ] 180 degree turn here so the bell's um ecosystem Bells coin is is a real coin bells in general is like one of the oldest if not the oldest crypto meme in in our culture and uh when ordinals dropped uh when it did a few months after that Bell's Mark uh a Bell's um ecosystem Bell's inscriptions came out right um and now there it's coming back like the there is a the market cap on Bell's coin right now is about 50 million if I'm not mistaken and uh and you know there are Bell's inscription projects that are out there one one of one of my partners has one um and and there's this you know Bell's puppets or you know this free mint that's coming out uh very soon is actually leading to something that's happening there's a mark there's a couple of marketplaces that are happening so if you're looking into Bel so it's a layer one I think it's going to be a direct um competitor to fractal um and there is a [ __ ] ecosystem already there is no fractal ecosystem yet I think with F6 that just minted today there is a little bit of one to the people that bought but still people are trying to figure that out um but what do you what do you have to what do you have to say about fractal and what's going on with that guys oh so it was Bells than fractal well I don't know we talk about bells for a second I'm just maybe both of them well I I think I think we really covered the fractal stuff on the last show and maybe maybe our thoughts like I think I agree with you right that there's not really an ecosystem right now what's surprising is is like I've made some people have made really comparisons to fractal like something like blast right where it's like like this isn't a very technical you know sort of thing this is a fork of you know something similar to like bsv right is it's been done before um but is yeah is more so like a you know really a vehicle to of course payback unisat investors but like you know something that's similar to blast in you know farming points and you know farming rewards and like you know more of a social thing but like the growth or or I guess the the marketing from like a a blast angle is not very similar and supposedly like main net is supposed to go live on September 9th right which is what a week and a half away or so maybe almost two weeks and um yeah I think like you're saying like there's not really you know there's not really an ecosystem usually when these ecosystems go to mainnet like you want to have as many projects as you possibly can like so that day one it's like whoa like this is something interesting right and so far I think the majority of fractal projects are consensus kind of scam just scams yeah they they're they're just ordinal projects uh lying in weight you know I mean the the derivatives of already like proven models on ordinals I don't know if that necessarily makes them a scam but it definitely makes you a little bit fishy about right that kind of like moving in I think you mentioned something that's kind of interesting um I've actually been like having conversations with uh investors that have been looking at to put liquidity and allocate uh liquidity into the ordinal space and you you said that you have to have a hearty ecosystem like something built out with like enough projects within the space for that liquidity to flow into or else if you get like a you know if you have like two or three projects and you get like a $2 million liquidity injection or like a two billion doll liquidity injection into that space then it's like you'll pump the [ __ ] out of those two projects or 10 projects that exist and then crash the entire Market it'll be like really shortlived so I I I think um I haven't really looked into Bells all that much um I'm I'm aware of like fractal and like who's backing fractal and it's been talked about for quite some time you know with unisat and binance partnering up for the fractal stuff um but like obviously like you said there isn't like really a huge ecosystem that's built out there um so it'll be interesting to see how those differ is there a lot of is there projects on bells currently right now I'm not aware yeah there are um yeah Bell's a avatars is oh I know they have the bell's puppets too so Bells puppets is is coming out soon that's going to be a free thing soon collabs will be going out um and uh sounds like a [ __ ] chill but it is no um I mean you got to open your mouth at some point right you know if you're if you're even if you're blessed you go like hey I'm gonna be here I'm gonna be streaming is that a shill no I mean it's it's it's what it is it's the alpha so um but the the there there is our roral artist has a he has probably one of the first Bells inscription projects and he has a whole Discord of like hundreds of people in there like trading like they're they're they're they're frothy over there there they are it's uh and the great thing is it's already a meme like Bells the bells is already a meme in general so you already you already have like this layup to be able to create stuff with that that concept you know um but for fractal I think one of the the leading things for me to think about is that the possibility of faster trading instead of waiting 10 minutes you know for things so like that could be a frothy thing um faster things people stay they don't have to wait 10 minutes minutes or for Block times and stuff like that what is the block time on bells it's like it' be like 2 to 9 seconds or something like that oh okay yeah cool well I mean that's definitely more bullish a lot of a lot of the biggest complaints with ordinals and specifically like runes and BRC 20s and atomical was the fact that they're subject to sometimes like hourong block times right so it's like if you can find something that's more quicker then you're going to have more liquidity you know able to like move in and exit on positions which is going to give investors more confidence placing their money in those particular spaces I the the other thing is is that is anybody talking about runes this week besides like like Billy Billy cat and dog and stuff like that I just feel like there's a say there's there's like a hundred of us here and development for these other sort of Protocols are grow don't stop developers but it's like growing quicker than like runes came out and made the market go sideways right so we're going to think long term but now you got fractal and then you got bells and like people you can't stop people from building but we don't have enough people in here to make one frothy over the other just yet it's sort of just like it's like it's like a new League of sports has happened and but and there's another new League of sports and there's another new League of sports and like hey man we don't have enough players to play kickball because we have we just had players to play this baseball game or this whatever you know kind of thing I mean dude like let's be honest though let's set the record straight runes did not make Bitcoin go sideways there's a bunch of like macro things obviously that but what runes did is it did exacerbate the [ __ ] downward motion of 90% of all assets and and uh ordinals within the ecosystem so it literally [ __ ] killed ordinals yeah um but but anyways that's all I wanted to say I'm no it's no thanks for uh what's up Ted um let's see nothing exclusive anyway Chad what's up bro yeah what do you think I mean yeah I don't I don't I think similar to Elmo I don't think that runes you know affected bitcoin price at all no um I will say though like I I don't know if we added this to the topics and maybe added [ __ ] I mean person I think is is the interesting thing that we've seen actually now I think the cycle is you have a couple [ __ ] that you have a couple different products now that are sort of trying to capture or you know indirectly and directly trying to capture basically speculation over the meol yeah right so something like Al ala I believe is ali.io as well as just Uncommon Goods right the Rune that uh Casey launched which is Rune zero um that right I think is is indirectly sort of tracking the mol and you know is is because of of you know basically uh I don't know less than 20 SATs per revite since really the launch of of runes and the having um Uncommon Goods is is is sort of trading at where the men poool is at and then right you have Alaya which is a you know direct sort of speculation engine and you can I think believe I believe it's every 24 hours you know basically speculate over whether the mol will be over a certain you know rate or not right um if you believe it's going to be and like this came into I guess really into the discussion just this past week when there was uh well I guess it was last week right we talked about it briefly on the show last week about Babylon right and and they're sort of staking and tons of people trying to get into that and the menol spiking and people then made money as well as probably lost money on alcha you know going long or short the men pool that's something we haven't seen before right I think that's a really interesting you know product we've we've now and now we got like what [ __ ] 40 different prediction markets launching on every every different chain yeah I know there's three that are launching on bitcoin that that that it's like it's like the new nft Marketplace on yeah um that kind of would be kind of fun on bitcoin just like oh no like I'm not looking at Poly Market but like that' be give something for DJ to do that's what people think right it's just like oh let's do it on bitcoin what about what about this bid ax thing that ZK can we talk about that a we think it's so cool I I think it really is really is cool and uh I'm GNA reach out to ZK after and see like if we can help in any way I mean cuz I do think that that's a really I was looking at um all the resources and everything um how would we help bit ax so they have a couple different models I'm going to text them now I think the most expensive uh model that you can get for a bit ax right now is like 150 bucks or so um and then you can you know easily sort of can ship to your house you set it up easily with with some of their software and you're up and running um with a little home Miner and like I was looking at videos it doesn't seem like it's that loud uh so like it seems like you could honestly just set it up in your kitchen it's probably about like like that big um all in all just just that just sort of a chipset they got the as6 minor in there little PC uh fan and um and yeah and you're sort of off and and to the race basically right his his substack was um talking about the centralization in in mining right with you know one company really having over 50% of the hash rate which is you know bit M and um this potential bit ax right as the uh you know sort of counter to that right potentially if if there's you know enough people that are able to to get bid axes which I think 150 bucks is pretty affordable it's like a Christmas gift right there yeah yeah um it could help secure network yeah it could help decentralize the network yeah right more so well the biggest fear has always been for proof of work a 51% attack right and now what you're saying is you know one specific centralized or one mining group effective ly does have control over 51% of the so it's like that that that is a reality now and the only way we can actually do that is if we democratize the mining of Bitcoin I when you really think about it too like how much for I think even now right like like you could sell one of your Arc miners for a bid ax right like we've most of us right got the airdrop for an arc minor back in in early this year yeah um and then you know people then ended up running all the way up to what five grand or so four grand whatever it was like you could sell one of those right right now right I think they're like 500 bucks still or 600 bucks and you could um you know you could then do the real Bic minor right I don't know like I think it's really cool well you know he you know he doesn't you know you know he doesn't mistake he does a mistake tweet and he also deletes his tweets and it's not because they're bad no he just says hey I you know but like so I think you should also like people should also take a look um ZK has like three other articles sort of substs that he's written over time yeah um uh one I think is related to just sort of like nfts and and basically nft amm uh which is probably not related to to any of the stuff we're doing so far but uh one of his most popular really really substacks is like I think something he put out in in February um that was a joint piece with nolish right talking about you know rare STS and a that sort of piece I think um um was sent to a lot of people and I think the foundation for a lot of people getting into inscriptions yeah um so that was a really pivotal piece I think for for a lot of people I urge people to to look at his substack and read all of his stuff yeah yeah I'm I'm I'm I'm subscribed to that but um yeah dude other than that man I mean great show let's [ __ ] call it hey this is ordinals are dead we're still alive there's only three of us here there's because of budget cuts because of orinal yeah because of budget cut because of budget cuts next week this is a radio show no listen thanks for joining us I'm [ __ ] Troy wait I'm not [ __ ] Troy I'm [ __ ] Troy Troy he could [ __ ] Troy heo [ __ ] Troy is [ __ ] sell cell listen you guys have a good one I'm out of here you take care boys uh that's the OED show that's the OED show it's hard to end the show