believe Trump is the most remarkable uh opponent to the existing establishment since Andrew Jackson are you part of the establishment Mr gri though some people would say as a former speaker you would be part of the establishment I was never part of the establishment that that's the whole point I mean I I was a I went from goat to Reagan to the contract with America I took on George HW Bush when he sold out and broke his word on taxes I was never acceptable to the bushes because I'm not part of the establishment I think some people would argue by virtue of becoming speaker you then become part of that confuses power structure with establishment they're very different I was once part of the power structure You could argue at one period I was explain can you explain then because this is a topic that's interested me for a long time I once did an article many years ago what is the establishment I called George Will I went all around trying to figure out what origin I think I think there was a very funny article by John Kenneth G braith about the establishment which met secretly in some hotel room or something all all of it tongue and Chic was it's a very funny article because I mean people obvious often speak of the establishment and it's kind of a you know IL defined sometimes a morphis thing what what is this establishment and if not a president who who's in the white house or a speaker who achieves uh you know uh become speaker if they're not part of the establishment I guess who who is part of the establishment well I I would say two places to look are the novels of CP snow who was a physicist parliamentarian novelist uh who captured brilliantly British politics and the subtleties of British politics and the uh TV shows and books of Anthony J uh who did Yes Minister and yes prime minister and was a chief adviser to Margaret Thatcher and most of Yes Minister was take was actually modeled on specific real events in the Thatcher government and if you watch Yes Minister you'll understand exactly what the establishment is uh in the British model The Establishment is the senior civil servants whose job it is to protect the system from elected politicians who don't know what they're doing uh and there are scenes that are hysterical in which the senior civil servant is explaining to a rising Junior civil servant of course we don't tell them the truth uh I mean after all who are they to know these things they're not they're not us uh we you know we are the mandarins who are supposed to run the place and they're simply the figureheads um and it's brilliant stuff so um Mr Speaker just so I guess when you say establishment some people mean like the GOP establishment this sounds like what some would call the administrative State uh bill John Bolton used to have a joke that he represents the American desk at the state department during the bush W George W bush years meaning that you know everybody else was captured by whatever Department that they were in you mean kind of long-term civil servants that that no but they're a piece of a relationship it it's the long-term New York Times Reporter who is close to the long-term CIA agent who feeds him total lies about Russia Russia which the reporter then has to publish because after all we're all in this together and so it's the people in the pullit surprise thing who give the New York Times and Washington Post pullit surprises for publishing things that were absolute lies totally false but but it was in a good cause it's the 51 uh Intelligence Officers who signed a totally false letter about uh the um uh the the laptop Hunter's laptop uh because after all defeating Trump was on behalf of a moral cause so what did it matter that those of us who'd been entrusted with the nation Secrets we're lying to our own country uh it is U it is a collective sense that there's an in and an out and the in you know part of the end is the whiff and puff song and and uh being able to be part of uh Skull and Bones uh part of part of the in is um you know I mean it's no accident that um you have a guy named Robert om Ali who was in grammar school with the Secretary of State uh and and then the Secretary of State happens to be in law school with Obama and they all take care of each other they're all part of the same group they understand they're the ends I mean would would Bill Buckley be part of the establishment I mean he's obviously Skull and Bones I mean I guess I I'm just wondering if is it a uni party or Buckley's a good example though of how it begins to break down because Buckley was part of the establishment that's why he could be Buckley he both had his father's wealth and he had the natural respect of the old order but Buckley was in fact trying to break out of the old order I mean when Buckley says at one point uh I would rather be governed by any random group from the phone book than by the Harvard faculty he's really beginning to to break away from the system that had dominated America at least from FDR on but then is it fair to say Mr Speaker under what how you're defining the establishment this is where I think it's so so tricky is that I mean I would say that uh both uh speaker Johnson and Hakeem Jeff the the minority leader would not be part of the establishment because they don't come from uh the Skull and Bones uh kind of secret society that's right and and the question is and this is what marks the uh never trumpers from the from the trumpers okay the never trumpers really want to be the rightwing of the establishment they want to be the Insiders me Bolton's a good example I I know John well he's a good friend but in the end John wants to be part of them