OUT ONCE AGAIN, SOME STATES ARE JUST DAYS AWAY FROM OPENING UP THE POLLS. JOINING US NOW, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT, REHEMA ELLIS OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM. NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT VAUGHN HILLYARD IN CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA, WHERE FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL SPEAK SOON THERE TO VOTERS, AND MSNBC LEGAL CONTINUE, LISA RUBIN. WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS TRIAL TODAY? OR THIS HEARING TODAY? >> Reporter: KATY, WHAT HAPPENED HERE TODAY IS THE ATTORNEYS FOR TRUMP, AS WELL AS THE ATTORNEYS FOR E. JEAN CARROLL CAME HERE TO ARGUE BEFORE THIS THREE PANEL JUDGES OF THE APPELLATE COURT, AND IT WAS ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE TRUMP TEAM IS ASKING, AS YOU SO WELL POINTED OUT FOR THIS JUDGMENT AGAINST HIM TO BE THROWN OUT OR AT THE VERY LEAST, TO HAVE THAT $5 MILLION VERDICT AGAINST HIM REDUCED. AND BOTH TEAMS HAVE ABOUT 10 MINUTES, IN ORDER TO MAKE THEIR ARGUMENTS, THEIR PRESENTATIONS, AND AS YOU SAY, THE TRUMP TEAM WENT ON TO SAY THAT THE INFORMATION FROM THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPE SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ENTERED INTO THE TRIAL, THE INFORMATION THAT TWO OTHER WOMEN ACCUSED HIM OF SEXUALLY ASSAULTING HIM, SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENED TO E. JEAN CARROLL. E. JEAN CARROLL'S ATTORNEY CAME BACK AND SAID, EVEN IF ALL OF THAT WERE THROWN OUT OF THE CASE, THE JUDGMENT SHOULD STILL STAND. IT WAS VERY INTERESTING THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS HERE. HE DID NOT HAVE TO BE HERE. HE WAS NOT HERE WHEN THIS CASE WENT TO TRIAL LAST YEAR. HE DIDN'T SPEND ANY TIME HERE, BUT THERE WAS A DEPOSITION OF HIM THAT WAS USED IN THIS CASE. SO WITH ALL OF THAT, E. JEAN CARROLL'S ATTORNEY ARGUING THAT SHE HAD 11 WITNESSES IN THIS CASE, DONALD TRUMP PRESENTED NONE, THAT THE TIME TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT WAS LAST YEAR, AND NOT NOW. THEY WERE ASKING ABOUT THE JUDGMENT THAT THEY GOT IN THIS CASE SHOULD STAND. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. LET ME PLAY A LITTLE BIT INSIDE THE HEARING ROOM BECAUSE WE DON'T OFTEN GET AUDIO OUT OF THESE THINGS. THIS IS ROBERTA KAPLAN, E. JEAN CARROLL'S LAWYER, AND JOHN SAUER WHO IS DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER, ALONG WITH THE JUDGE IN THIS CASE, TALKING ABOUT WHY THE JUDGMENT SHOULD STAND. I'M GOING TO WARN YOU, THOUGH, THERE IS SOME COARSE LANGUAGE. >> MR. TRUMP IS HERE TODAY. HE WAS GIVEN EVERY OPPORTUNITY BY JUDGE KAPLAN TO SHOW UP AT THIS TRIAL, AND HE WAS EVEN GIVEN UNTIL 5:00 P.M. ON THE SUNDAY BEFORE CLOSINGS AND DIDN'T SHOW. HE HAD EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE THE STAND AND REBUT THE EVIDENCE, HE DID NOT. HE DID NOT PUT ON A SINGLE WITNESS. WE PUT ON 11. WHAT HE DID PUT IN IS THE VIDEO TAPE OF "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" WHERE HE BASICALLY SAID I GRABBED WOMEN BY THE PUSSY, EXCUSE ME MY LANGUAGE, AND ASKED ABOUT THE VIDEO, WHAT DID HE SAY, HE EMBRACED IT. THE OUTCRY WITNESSES HAD EGREGIOUS BIAS AGAINST THE DEFENDANT, PRIOR SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS AND TEXT MESSAGES, SAID THINGS TOTALLY UNRELATED TO HIS CASE, BASED ON HIS POLITICS. >> YOU HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS EXAMINE THEM IN FRONT OF JURY, RIGHT? >> YES. BUT THE QUESTION IS WHAT HARMLESS ERROR COULD THE JURY BELIEVE BUT WAS THE JURY'S JUDGMENT TAINTED BY THE FACT THAT THEY HEARD THE INFLAMMATORY EVIDENCE. AND ONE THING THIS COURT AND OTHER COURT EMP EMPHASIZES, THE RELENTLESSLY HAMMERED THE PROPENSITY EVIDENCE, THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPE. >> I HAD THE OPENING STATEMENT, I DIDN'T SEE THE RELENTLESS HAMMERING. >> THE LAST FEMALE VOICE IS THE JUDGE. EXPLAIN, WHAT EXACTLY IS JOHN SAUER DOING HERE? >> HE'S TRYING TO ARGU JUDGE LOU KAPLAN LET IN EVIDENCE HE SHOULDN'T HAVE LET IN. AND EXCLUDED EVIDENCE, THE FACT THAT E. JEAN CARROLL NEVER FILED A POLICE REPORT. THE ORAL ARGUMENT FOCUSED ON TWO PIECES OF EVIDENCE, THE TESTIMONY FROM JESSICA LEADS WHO ACCUSED DONALD TRUMP OF SEXUAL LY ASSAULTING HER ON A TRAIN, AND HE WAS ARGUING, IT'S PROPENSITY EVIDENCE. SOMEONE WHO HAS DONE SOMETHING IN THE PAST HAS THE PROPENSITY TO DO THE SAME THING AGAIN. USUALLY IT DOESN'T COME INTO A CASE, EXCEPT PROPENSITY EVIDENCE WITH RESPECT TO SEXUAL ASSAULT AND RAPE IF CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ARE MET. AND TODAY HE WAS ARGUING AND VERY TECHNICAL TERMS THAT YOU DIDN'T READ, WHY JESSICA LEADS' TESTIMONY SHOULD COME OUT OF THE CASE, WHY THE "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" TAPE SHOULD COME OUT OF THE TAPE AS WELL. >> AND THIS IS A CIVIL CASE, SO THE BAR IS LOWER THAN A CRIMINAL COURT, RIGHT? >> THE BAR IS LOWER IN SOME RESPECTS, BUT NOT IN OTHERS. FIRST OF ALL, A DEFAMATION VERDICT IN NEW YORK STATE HAS TO BE UNANIMOUS. SO IN THAT RESPECT, IT SHARES A LOT WITH THE CRIMINAL VERDICT. THE OTHER THING IS THAT THE JURY HAD TO FIND THAT DONALD TRUMP SEXUALLY ABUSED E. JEAN CARROLL WITHIN THE MEANING OF THE CRIMINAL STATUTE OF NEW YORK, EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T A CRIMINAL CASE. >> THIS MONICA LEWINSKY TYPE DRESS, DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT? >> I KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME THAT SHE HAS THE DRESS SHE WORE ON THE DATE OF THE ASSAULT. THAT DRESS WAS ALLEGEDLY SUBJECTED TO DNA TESTING. IT NEVER CAME INTO EVIDENCE. IN PART BECAUSE THERE WERE DISPUTES ABOUT THE RELIABILITY OF THE TESTING AND THE DNA, BUT THAT IS, I THINK, WHAT DONALD TRUMP WAS TALKING ABOUT IN THAT FREE ASSOCIATING PRESS CONFERENCE HE HELD. >> THE OTHER BIT OF LEGAL NEWS WE HAVE IS OUT OF THE HUSH MONEY SENTENCING, IT'S BEEN DELAYED NOW TWICE, AND DELAYED ONCE AGAIN. WHAT HAPPENED THERE? >> JUDGE JUAN MERCHAN DECIDING TO POSTPONE THE SENTENCING UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION, AT DONALD TRUMP'S REQUEST. THE OTHER THING HE DECIDED IS HE'S GOING TO POSTPONE HIS OWN DECISION ON WHETHER TO SET ASIDE THE VERDICT BECAUSE ACCORDING TO TRUMP'S LAWYERS, EVIDENCE ADMITTED AT THE TRIAL IS NOW EVIDENCE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN EXCLUDED UNDER THE SUPREME COURT'S IMMUNITY RULING. THAT DECISION, TOO, WILL BE MOVED UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION ON NOVEMBER 12th. NOW, IN HIS DECISION TODAY, HE SAYS, I'M NOT DOING THIS FOR POLITICAL REASONS. IF ANYTHING, I'M DOING THIS SO NOBODY CAN ACCUSE ME OF INTERFERING WITH THE ELECTION. HE SAID IT'S IMPORTANT TO AVOID ANY APPEARANCE, HOWEVER UNWARRANTED THAT THE PROCEEDING HAS BEEN AFFECTED BY OR SEEKS TO AFFECT THE APPROACHING PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN WHICH THE DEFENDANT IS A CANDIDATE. >> IF DONALD TRUMP WINS, WHAT HAPPENS? >> DONALD TRUMP WINS, JUDGE MERCHAN CAN STILL SENTENCE HIM ON NOVEMBER 26th. WHAT HE IS GOING TO SENTENCE HIM TO, AND WHETHER HE WILL SERVE THAT SENTENCE IS, I THINK, A DIFFERENT STORY. THERE'S NO BAR ON AN ELECTED PRESIDENT SERVING A SENTENCE. THERE'S CERTAINLY NOTHING IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT WOULD PRECLUDE IT, BUT IF THERE'S AN ARGUMENT TO BE MADE TO THE SUPREME COURT, I THINK WE KNOW FROM HISTORY, DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYERS WILL MAKE IT. >> LET'S GO BACK TO WHAT WE SAW EARLIER, VAUGHN, UNTIL THE NEWS CONFERENCE, AND I SAY NEWS CONFERENCE. IT WASN'T A NEWS CONFERENCE BECAUSE IT DIDN'T TAKE QUESTIONS FROM THE PRESS. WAS THIS SOMETHING THAT DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO DO? WAS IT THE CAMPAIGN INVOLVED? WHY IS HE GOING OUT AND SPEAKING FOR NEARLY AN HOUR ABOUT A JUDGMENT AND TALKING ABOUT ALL OF THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIMSELF JUST DAYS BEFORE EARLY VOTING STARTS IN THIS COUNTRY? >> RIGHT. THAT ACTUALLY REMINDS ME OF THE TRUMP TOWER STATEMENT THAT HE MADE BACK IN JUNE THE DAY AFTER HE WAS CONVICTED ON THOSE 34 FELONY COUNTS. YOU AND I WERE STANDING NEXT TO EACH OTHER, AND WERE KEEN ON THE OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS, AND HE ENDED UP NOT TAKING ANY THAT DAY. LET'S BE CLEAR. DONALD TRUMP IS NOT NAIVE TO THE FACT THAT ANY STORY RELATED TO HIM AND HIS LEGAL BATTLES HAS OXYGEN TO IT, AND IT IS A STORY. HE IS NOT ONLY THE FORMER PRESIDENT BUT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT IN 2024. AND SO FOR HIM, HE IS ENSURING, BY GOING OUT AND TRUMP TOWER OUTSIDE OF HIS ELEVATORS AND SPEAKING FOR ALMOST AN HOUR, HE IS ENSURING THAT THE SECOND SIDE OF THE STORY GETS OUT THERE. A LOT OF IT HAS TO FRANKLY DO BEING ROOTED BACK TO MAY OF 2023. THE FIRST E. JEAN CARROLL DEFAMATION TRIAL WHEN HE WAS FOUND BY A JURY TO HAVE SEXUALLY ABUSED HER. IT WAS A JURY THAT MADE THAT DECISION. DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T SHOW UP A SINGLE DAY. HE CHOSE NOT TO TESTIFY EITHER AS ROBBIE KAPLAN WAS NOTING THERE THAT HE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO AND HE PASSED IT UP. AND IT WAS INTERESTING FAST FORWARD FROM MAY OF 2023, TO TODAY. HE'S STANDING IN FRONT OF THOSE ELEVATOR DOORS THERE, WAS BEMOANING THE FACT THAT ONE OF THE FORMER ATTORNEYS WORKING ON THE CASE AT THE TRIAL AT THE TIME, JOE TACO PINO, HE HAD URGED HIM TO NOT TESTIFY, NOT GO TO COURT BECAUSE IT WAS BELOW THE STANDING OF A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO DO SO, AND IN DOING SO, DONALD TRUMP, EVER SINCE THEN, INCLUDING THE DAY, THAT VERY DAY IN MAY OF 2023 THAT HE WAS FOUND TO HAVE SEXUALLY ABUSED E. JEAN CARROLL BY THAT JURY, HE WENT TO A TOWN HALL IN NEW HAMPSHIRE AND SPOKE THE EXACT WORDS THAT LED TO THE DEFAMATION FINDING IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU HEARD HIM CONTINUE TO DO TODAY BECAUSE REALLY IT'S AT ALL COSTS AT THIS POINT, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE FINANCIAL REPERCUSSIONS HERE, KATY, HE HAS MADE THAT VERY CLEAR. HE IS WILLING, DESPITE HIS LEGAL EFFORTS TO FIGHT PAYING, HE IS WILLING TO TAKE THIS ON IN ORDER TO POLITICALLY