Crystal Gail Mangum

this podcast may contain content that is graphic and disturbing in nature listener discretion is advised it was a domestic incident that led to the 2011 stabbing of Reginald day by his live-in girlfriend but as police would quickly discover his attacker was more than just your average citizen in this North Carolina city this is episode 15 the Crystal Gayle Mangum story [Music] [Applause] hi Amy good to see you today I met again great to see you even though I would prefer to see you in person happy to have the technology I know me too I miss you I miss our time together I know me too on a positive note today some cool announcements so we got a number of new patrons and first of all thank you so much for supporting us I mean we just can't tell you how much we appreciate it they have also written us with just some very nice emails some case suggestions which we love I know that I don't want to spoiler alert here but we're already looking at one or two of them and they've also written us with some questions about criminology about women and crime and for all the engagement we just love it and we're so grateful thank you so so much and I sent out a bunch of stickers to you guys so hopefully look for those in the mail great so first we have cherish F from Escondido and her friend Bettina got her hooked on our show so she is doing a shout out to her amazing lovely legal ladies and their daily true crime chats oh hi ladies thank you so much for listening I love it thank you so much thank you both to Bettina and to cherish we also have Jacqueline from New Mexico hey Jacqueline thank you so much Thank You Jacqueline we appreciate the support we have Jazlyn from Happy Valley Oregon whoa Thank You jasmine Thank You Jocelyn I love the name - very cool who else do we have Amy all right we also have Jen from Illinois Thank You Jen who also sent us a nice note thank you awesome we also had Kelly from Louisiana hey Kelly thank you so much for supporting us and we have Mandy from Connecticut not too far from us not too far from us and Mandy sent me a cool case suggestion Thank You Mandy and we also have Kaitlyn ready for this last name I'm gonna try my heart rate I just want to preface this we have Caitlyn who actually this is the funniest part wrote in she wrote in how to pronounce her last name but said I think it would be funny or wonderful to hear if amy can pronounce it so we're telling you spoiler alert I probably can't all right Kaelyn is for you and then we'll correct her all right kalin-san Czarnecki Kalyan sir necks are Nikki SARS Nikki I don't know which version of that doing it right all right God try to get in Kalin what all right Kalin let's try this Kalin sorry Nikki from Aurora he says it as a question but she's pretty much right Kalin wrote in that the way to pronounce her name would be Sarna key so I think Amy did pretty well but it took her about six takes to get it so we'll just keep that part in thank you for your support so Kalin has a question I want to take so here's Caitlin's question she wrote what inspired the two of you to make a podcast that focuses on women and crime what inspired you more specifically about female offenders okay I'm gonna say that our initial inspiration probably came from direct appeal in which we examine the Melanie McGuire case simply because we had so many things in that case that were unique to female offenders and the way they're judged and the way Melanie was viewed and the way her actions were interpreted and so many people started writing in about other female cases that interested them and kind of like how to look at this through the gender lens like is there a double standard for women now I can already tell you that there is because I teach women in crime so I've already been inspired about female cases but I think after Melanie's case there were so many more things that are unique to female offenders that I wanted to explore and I think that probably covers my interest Amy you want to add to that the only thing I want to say I'm also very interested how many offenders were once victims and many victims become offender so it's interesting to see that relationship and although we do see that relationship with all offenders not just females I tend to see it a little more when we talk about female offenders that victim offender relationship Amy isn't it like I believe the statistics are really alarmingly high about women in prison and levels of victimization I think it's something like 85 to 90% of all women in prison have been victimized I know it I have a stat exact one from when I teach the class but it's high right well yeah because you also have a large population of women who are in there for killing their once abusers they're not they killed them in self-defense or a battered women's syndrome came up we talked a little bit about that in an upcoming episode ok Amy we have another patron this is Valerie from San Diego oh how I wish I was in sunny San Diego right now Thank You Valerie and Valerie has a question for us why do you think that the female serial killer still is not something studied as much as a male serial killer I'm gonna go ahead and take that one since I teach serial killers and women in crime so first of all great question Valerie second of all women have been historically understudied in the field of crime and it wasn't until probably the 80s that we really began to look at female offenders so we were neglected at first and now that the research is catching up I can also tell you that the reason that females are not studied as much is because there aren't as many female serial killers and that's just the truth about 15% of all serial killers are female oftentimes when females are killing they'll kill with a male partner and usually they're doing it at the behest of a male partner when females kill on their own I think it's also not as salacious or not as juicy right when females kill on their own as serial killers they're usually doing so for utility for a reason so and usually that's that's about money usually women who kill are doing so because of money whereas we tend to be more fascinated with the male serial killer because the male serial killers motives are typically more sexual or violent in nature or both so I think for the reasons for those two reasons one that there still aren't as many female serial killers and two the motives are maybe not as what you know we would deem exciting I put that in quotes that would be the reason why the female serial killer doesn't receive the same type of attention as the male serial killer does okay so thank you everyone for your support thank you patrons thank listeners thank you for your questions and for your emails we really enjoy reading them and engaging with you guys and now today's episode we hope you enjoy all right so let's get to it Crystal Gayle Mangum do you know who she is I do not wonderful I love telling a new story to you Amy crystal Mangum was born in July of 1978 in Durham North Carolina where she was raised as the youngest of three children her dad was a truck driver and her mom was a homemaker and money was tight in high school Krystle got involved with an older man she was about 14 or 15 and he was about 27 and Krystal said he and some other men kidnapped her at a certain point and sexually assaulted her but her parents reportedly did not believe Krystal so what a crystal do was she joined the Navy after high school and she had a brief marriage to a man named Kenneth McNeil but after that relationship ended she had an affair with the naval officer with whom she had two children she received an honorable discharge but the relationship ended Krystal then went on to go to college and got a degree in criminal psychology but she was having trouble making ends meet especially because at that point she had a third child so now she's essentially a single mother with three children and a degree but we know that that doesn't always mean it's easy to get a job reportedly she was also working towards her master's degree as well I want to mention here Krystal had a previous criminal record having been arrested in 2002 for stealing a cab while intoxicated and leading police on a high-speed chase for which she served a few weekends in jail paid fines and restitution to be followed by a term of probation so fast-forward Krystal met Reginald day when he came to paint her aunt's home in January of 2011 they clicked and Reggie invited Krystal to come live with him as a roommate and share the rent so she and her children would move in with him she was living with her aunt reported that she wanted to get out but once Krystal moved in the relationship very quickly blossomed into a romance rather than a roommate situation I'm assuming she knew that was gonna happen people don't just say hey you want to live with me all the time right it's not very normal and it happened super quickly yeah and I mean maybe she already had plans of it maybe she likes her oh yeah no reportedly and we'll talk about him he was very likable guy so their romance blossomed very quickly but it would sour just as quickly as it blossom how old were her children were they young at this point they were young children yeah she had three younger children early in the morning of April 3rd 2011 in Durham North Carolina 46 year old Reginald Day was stabbed in his home in the abdomen but managed to get to his nephews home Carlos Wilson located just next door and Wilson called an ambulance right away so as we just discussed Reggie lived with crystal and her three children but crystal and the children were gone when the police arrived on the scene when the police came to the apartment it was very obvious that there had been a struggle on the scene there were various knifes strewn about the apartment but like a lot of knives like six or seven of them the mattress was off the bed and up against a wall there was a door with a hole in it and it was off the hinges and there was there was blood spatter there were also clumps of hair on the floor so a struggle was obvious what had happened earlier that evening is that Reggie had attended a party with Krystal with family and by all reports they seemed like they were having a great time they were happy nothing was wrong but they come home and something happens because a few hours after the attack on Reggie a 911 call is made by Crystal's son who claims that his mom stabbed someone in self-defense because a man had beat her up so the paramedics respond and police had to take crystal physically off of Liddy Howard floor and that was a friend of crystals who was watching her kids that night so crystal had gone to Liddy's home around 4:00 a.m. and told Liddy that Reggie had assaulted her so the police reported Krystal was splayed out on the floor she was clearly very disoriented they said that she was sleeping actually and she was taken to the police station right away but she did not talk to the police she asked for a lawyer probably because you know she has a criminal history and knows how this goes so what did she look like at this time well she had visible injuries she had some cuts scrapes it looked like her lip was a little bit fat from what I saw and I always encourage people listeners to go ahead and just look at the the photo from that so she has injuries but they're not what I would characterize on the surface as severe injuries they didn't look that way Reggie was at the time alive and he was at Duke Medical Center where he was stabilized after surgery the knife had actually because he had sustained the knife wound in the side it pierced his colon and his spleen but the way they described it is that it was nicked so he survived and so at this point he is you know stabilizing and the police want to talk to him right away because as we know you know the information you get right after an event is the most valuable so what did Reggie have to say about this incident he and crystal went to his cousin's party and that they had a wonderful time reportedly they both drank a lot and when they returned probably around 2:00 a.m. to the apartment complex crystal ran into a police officer I believe his name is officer King he was a local police officer who crystal knew and apparently she got a little flirtatious with him and Reggie got mad tensions escalated pretty quickly and Reggie started yelling at her starting a fight outside with crystal at this late hour on talking about how she was flirting with another man and other men in general and the officer that crystal knew actually told them that they needed to quiet it down and take their problems inside the house which they did Reggie said after they entered the apartment they continued to fight and he admitted to hitting her and he said that he was angry and that she locked herself in the bathroom making a call to ask someone to come pick her up Reggie said that he was so angry that he broke down the bathroom door and pulled Krystal out by her hair but then let her go and he said that Krystal became enraged grabbing a knife from the kitchen and stabbing him which still might make this a self-defense case but the knives that were seemingly staged around the apartment told somewhat of a different story however Reggie's admitting right here he assaulted her he says though and here's gonna be the key part of his story that after he pulled her out at some point he let her go and he's like fine forget it I'm walking away I'm not gonna do this Krystal was charged with assault with a deadly weapon with the intent to kill but then Reggie's condition worsened in the hospital and Reggie passed away and now Krystal was charged for murder but was this really about the crime or was this about crystals past in Durham North Carolina since crystal is one of the most famous residents of Durham [Music] one of the most exciting things for me this week was getting my daily harvest box did you get yours I did and I was so excited when I got it daily harvest delivers delicious clean food right to your door they're easy to prepare and until you're ready to eat them you should put them in the freezer daily harvest never uses preservatives added sugars or any artificial ingredients they actually work directly with farms and they freeze organic fruits and vegetables at peak ripeness to give you all the best nutrients and taste did you try this sweet potato wild rice hash I did so good also the cauliflower pesto was so amazing it used cashew so and like this delicious nutty flavor good food easy to prepare easy to maintain environmentally responsible so our listeners can go to daily harvest calm and enter the promo code women WOM en to get $25 off of your first box that's promo code women for $25 off your first box at daily harvest calm one night in March 2006 crystal was hired as a stripper for the Duke lacrosse team now I know who this woman is okay because you know the famous Duke lacrosse scandal so crystal is at the center she is the Duke Lacrosse rape team accuser the lacrosse players had requested white strippers but crystal and her partner were black and Asian crystal said that the players yelled at her and called her racial slurs and then she said that they physically assaulted her and sexually assaulted her then they left so it was her and the other woman's last name was Roberts and so they wind up leaving the house and wind up in a grocery store parking lot where they have some type of argument so Robert says she wanted Mangum to get out of her car she said she was drunk and she wanted her out but Mangum zyk arrested in that parking lot for public intoxication because police officers saw this occurring so it's during the time that she's being held at jail for this arrest that she says she was raped by the lacrosse players District terney Mike Nifong brought charges against three lacrosse players in the matter of days and let me tell you how Mangum identified her assailants she was shown a photo lineup that included every male from the party and she was supposed to pick which one's assaulted her yes but do you understand the implication there showing her yes of course because they all look familiar to her every anyone she picks is it will have been at that party yeah so there's no innocent bystanders this is a tainted line yeah for sure teens have lined up right from the start and so she picks three young males from that okay Megan changed her story several times but this story of the young black working-class woman versus the privileged white athletes became a media sensation and Nifong was up for re-election and he wanted to look good he's really what happened here Roberts who was with Mangum she was the other stripper for the party says that the rape never happened she said that the story was not true so what did Nifong do he took DNA from the players from the party but none of their DNA was found in manga but rather her boyfriends DNA was found in her they did a rape kit yes they did okay so they got you know again DNA from her and they found her boyfriends but they did not find any of those players she accused but he he kept going though the prosecutor well what he did was even worse he withheld this information what we know when a prosecutor withholds information that would be exculpatory is this is a Brady violation he buried that information and I mean what happened after that became really a scandal so what happened to him the district attorney he resigned he was disbarred he was also convicted of I believe withholding information and obstruction he was for which by the way he served one day in jail so is that a fair sentence probably not but he did lose his career and he's really disgraced and interestingly another of his cases had the conviction overturned for similar conduct and this was a double murder case where I believe he withheld another type of investigative report and that happened several years after the fact so crystals story really came into question though as the evidence it just wasn't adding up it wasn't supporting her claims and what you probably remember and I'm not sure if everyone else does is that the boys were exonerated leaving Crystal as the girl who cried wolf and so to speak so she was going to have a rough go she did have a rough go after that in Durham and one of the documentaries that I watched about this case you know had some of her friends talking about how no one would hire her after that no one she couldn't get work understandably yeah understandable or not she had a rough go in Durham she stayed though she didn't get perjury charges or anything like did you ever testify on the stand - she did not and she did not receive any type of perjury charges either but her life was certainly not easy after that even with no college education going to implicate people for a crime that never occurred then your life should have easy no it shouldn't be it read something to have followed up because I was like curious about how their lives turned out the boys who were accused and it looked like all three of them really landed on their feet and did well yeah I mean I well because they were white privileged boys to begin with right well they were yeah that's true but I guess their exonerations were also some exonerations as you know are kind of in named and others are really believed yeah so of course you know their exoneration was bleeped by most when was the Duke Lacrosse okay so the Duke Lacrosse rape case took place in 2006 and then crystals fight with Reginald day in which she stabbed him took place in 2011 gotcha I'm glad you put that out cuz it's good to have the timeline and now let's fast-forward two years to early November 2013 when crystal would go on trial in Durham because she was charged as I said before and the charge was upped to murder because Reginald died so she wouldn't plea she would not plead because her story was that it was self-defense and that's what she's going in with doesn't sound like self-defense to me we'll get there I'm curious to hear why you think actually I can't wait to hear why you think that but let's talk about this the first thing and I saw her attorney speak about this is no change of venue request so her attorney said that they couldn't get a fair trial anywhere in the country so why even request a change of venue oh they didn't even bother requesting no she is literally famous in you know I mean yes people knew she was but not so famous that every person in every region is gonna know who she is right it happened right there in Durham I think never one thing would have been a request for a change of venue you agree with this i 100% agree with that okay so the prosecutor calls Milton Walker to the stand and this is an ex-boyfriend of crystals and this was not good for Crystal Milton describes an incident about a year before the one between Crystal and Reginald in which crystal set his clothes on fire and became physical with him threatening him with a knife she was convicted of injury to personal property child endangerment because there were children in the home her own and resisting arrest and she spent a few months in jail for this so this was extremely damning to Crystal's defense why were they allowed that you have was that relevant to the case prior conducts prior similar conduct he she threatened him with a knife so the prosecutor has a good point to say this is what crystal does and she's been convicted for this before but judges have a lot of discretion there because we also hear cases where they say it would be prejudicial to hear about prior behavior it's so true I often wonder about the discretion that they use and the difference when they say you know is it more probative than prejudicial and in this case it just happened to work out that they believed that you know they should hear from her I don't I don't disagree but I just want to point that out that there's other judges that would have not allowed that I don't disagree either to be honest but yes and I'm sure this was a very devastating piece this was devastating to her case there's no doubt about it he also I might want to point out that he did not want to be there he only testified her ex-boyfriend apparently did not have hard feelings and he only testified because he was subpoenaed and he had to but otherwise he wasn't that thrilled about it the jury hears all this this is not good crystal also decided to take the stand in her own defense and she told the story of the argument between she and Reggie crystal said and this is her version and how it differs from Reggie's crystal said that Reggie punched her and she fled to the bathroom Reggie kicked down the door dragged her out and went to the kitchen and he grabbed knives out of the drawers and began throwing them at her and that's why she said the mattress was down she said she grabbed the mattress and pretty much hid behind it she said that she eventually after throwing knives he got her though and got on her and was choking her and she grabbed a knife on the floor and stabbed him in the abdomen and that's how the stab wound occurred the defense also introduced experts to help show that Reggie would not have died of the knife wound but he went into cardiac arrest due to alcohol withdrawal which caused him to go into a coma and the family wound up ending his life support because he had brain damage that's interesting so they're not even arguing so obviously it's an affirmative defense she's saying yes I did it but yeah it's because we talk a lot about you know what an affirmative defense means so it's interesting that they're saying yeah she stabbed him but there's no reason to say she's even responsible for his death because it's because of alcoholism that's what they were so they got you they called medical examiner and they thought oh just that they had experts and they certainly had experts to show like remember something did go wrong he was on the mend but he was by all accounts a serious drinker so it did it was some type of cardiac arrest and they argued that it was due to the alcohol withdrawal and that if he had been a healthy male those knife wounds would not have been enough to kill him but then again had it not been for the knife wounds he would possibly still be here today well so it's still it's still going to be her fault regardless it was just the defense is trying to mount you know this is their defense is self-defense they're trying to mitigate it but it's a tough one they're trying to mitigate it because there's arguing that you know she had to do this she had to fight for her life so I'm gonna ask you what you think early normally I wait till the end but before I tell you what the jury deliberated on and what their what they came to based on the two stories that I told you do you have any idea where your you're at with us I'm having a little trouble understanding the 9-1-1 call by her son how does that come into play did he see something or very odd so I believe that his mother came back to the house where he was and I think she was hysterical she told him what happened related this story I didn't witness anything he did not witness anything okay so at first when you said she locked herself in the bathroom and then he walked away and and I I was thinking that she went back to him and I was gonna say that's not self-defense because the issue of timing right that wasn't an imminent threat but her story is that it was a minute so this just becomes one of those he said she said it does become one of those and I don't know that she wasn't credible um except she doesn't have credibility I was gonna say unfortunately she doesn't have the best track record and unfortunately what we do in the past is gonna dictate how much people believe us in the future it does yeah so at what I mean I don't know that she didn't come across as credible on the stand the problem is that everyone in Durham knows who she is and she's the girl who lied about the Duke Lacrosse rape so I think her credibility was probably she's a big lie that wasn't a lie to be taken lightly of course not no credibility means everything to juries right if you get caught - with any lie even so this is the we talked about this why people don't go put their clients on the stand because any small lie you get caught in destroys credit they didn't bring that up though no they didn't but the point was that they never moved it from Durham everyone knew who she was all right wait you didn't give me your friend I'm sorry you don't do you think it's do you think it's self defense I'll give you my opinion after I'm gonna give you my opinion after it's really hard because I don't hear any corroborating unless I'm missing something there's no corroborating testimony from people that heard anything obviously there's that officer that she was supposedly flirting with who said take it inside what about Reggie's words himself when he was in the hospital he admitted we got in a fight I hit her I punched her I kicked a door down I dragged her up by her hair they found clumps of hair well brace a lot of the story he's probably not stupid and he knows that the evidence will show that but he's gonna he's not he's gonna stop short of saying that I then was throwing nice at her so I don't know how much that helps here I don't know how much up her helps either okay but I do have to say for me knowing her past if I didn't know her past and I didn't know about the false allegations I would probably be much quicker to believe her what about the fact that she pulled a knife on an ex-boyfriend a year before does that hurt her case you think not as much as the false accusations but it doesn't help okay so the jury deliberated on this and I think they went out for about six hours and they came back and she was charged with first degree and agree not sure if they threw anything else in but so the jury comes back and they say not guilty to first-degree murder but guilty to second-degree murder that makes sense because there's no there's no way to assess whether this was premeditated it sounds like it was a crime of passion here at the moment so actually my I'm I was thinking why would they have charged her with first-degree murder I know they up charged sometimes because they want to get a guilty verdict to something lower but there's no I mean I don't see any premeditation whatsoever here no I don't either Christel wound up getting the judge sentenced her to 14 to 18 years in prison there's a lot of you know with first-degree murder there's really no variation and you get first-degree years you're looking at life with or without the possibility of parole or the death penalty when second-degree murder comes into play there's a lot of variation you can get as little as ten years or as much as 40 years yeah so that is kind of light so crystal is now serving her sentence at the North Carolina Correctional Institution for Women so where do I fall on this one at the end because I you know I watched a lot I've read a lot I remember the case quite well the Duke case I'm conflicted I believe this was clearly not planned and I do believe that this became I do believe that the crime occurred because of a violent attack on her I don't believe this was not precipitated at all and I don't believe this was her you know both both parties agree that Reggie was the aggressor he started the fight he physically attacked her so when was that less provoked they're saying you shoot she was provoked I believe which again this is not a victim blaming but this is a victim precipitation of events and so there was a provocation and she was physically attacked so what happened afterwards I think we both agree on about half the facts but I think probably happened though is that I don't believe her story that he was I don't believe the story that he got a bunch of knives out and started throwing them at her and she was protecting herself I believe his version was that probably the appropriate one even if he minimized what he had done I do believe that he attacked her she was angry she might have even been scared look if you got physically attacked like that you still have a reason to say that I grabbed a knife because I was garetty with he had beat me let me go for a second but so I believe it's more likely that she grabbed the knife after she was angry and she stabbed him at which point the right thing to do would have been just leaving right because when we talk about self-defense it's only it's only a valid defense if you had no other choice right if you could not leave or if your life was in imminent danger if your life is in imminent danger unless you're in the stand-your-ground States but sure that they weren't stand your ground no however you could probably be I don't know a little sympathetic to someone who was just I'm not saying I'm completely sympathetic but I'm a little bit sympathetic that she was not you know she didn't just pick up a knife and stab this guy she was mad at him cause I mean I'm also sympathetic to the fact that her past played such a role in the current situation I don't know that that's fair again if they change the venue maybe I think it would have given her a better shot but yeah I think so for the sentencing I think actually this is an appropriate sentence because I believe it was second-degree murder and I think 14 to 18 years takes a count the fact that she took someone's life but they were mitigating factors but I have to wonder what's gonna happen to Krystal when she comes out like will her time have rehabilitated her as well because Krystal has a past of arrests of violent behavior of resisting arrest of displaying knife she has you know she has quite the history so I'm wondering I guess that's my question will she come out rehabilitated or when Krystal comes out and the next time she has a domestic incident or something you know an altercation with someone will she then resort to you know setting someone's clothes on fire or pulling a knife I'm not sure well I think it depends on how she spends her time if she spends her time in programming and you know doing things so better herself also if she takes responsibility is she remorseful or does she really feel like she's the victim because if her if her version of events is the correct one this is just gonna make her angry because no one believes her and she's serving time for protecting her life in which case it'll make her bitter when she comes out it might make her better yes so she's and now hold as she now so this happened in 2013 and she was sentenced and 14 to 18 which means that she could get actually if it's 14 to 18 she could probably be up for parole at like 11 years I'd say and she's about our age so she'll be in her mid 40s when she's up for parole so I'd be very curious to see what the parole board you know decides to do or if she has to you know does she have to serve 85% but she'll still come out a fairly young woman so I'm always curious about the age out of fact we know that when offenders come out I wouldn't worry about her let them we talked about Betty Broderick you know coming out as a 70 year old like she's aged out of crime for the most part but I wonder about a woman who comes out 45 who's you know served like you said an unjustified sentence and will she be able to rehabilitate and assimilate back into society I don't know I guess we'll have to wait and see for her sake I hope she does all right Amy well that's all I have for today thank you so much thank you and that's a wrap we'll see everyone next time on women in crime women and crime is written and hosted by Megan sax and Amy Schlossberg our producer and editor is James Varga our music is composed by desert media if you enjoy the show you can get access to ad free episodes exclusive AMAs and other bonus content for a small monthly contribution through patreon to find out more visit patreon.com slash women and cry [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] sources for today's episode come from NBC News the news and observer an episode of snapped and an episode of fatal attraction