AND ACCURATE INTROS. WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU. >> THANKS, ARI. >> THANK YOU, ARI. >> BOB, WHAT DO YOU SEE TONIGHT? >> I THINK THAT IT WILL BE HUGE. I THINK, AS I REMEMBER '92 HIT 80 MILLION. I'M THINKING IT MIGHT DO THAT, AS YOU PROJECTED. I THINK BOTH CANDIDATES HAVE A LOT AT STAKE BECAUSE THEY EACH HAVE VERY DIFFERENT GOALS. AND I THINK THIS WILL BE THE ONLY DEBATE, SO THERE'S A LOT AT STAKE. >> JEN? >> NO QUESTION. I THINK IF YOU'RE THE HARRIS TEAM, YOU HAVE A HUGE OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE 28% OF PEOPLE, ACCORDING TO THAT "NEW YORK TIMES" POLL, NEED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU. SO IF YOU'RE HER, YOU'RE THINKING ABOUT THAT. WHAT DO THEY NEED TO MO MORE ABOUT YOU? THE CONTRAST WITH TRUMP? DO THEY NEED TO KNOW YOUR PLANS? THAT'S ON HER MIND IN THIS DEBATE. I THINK FOR HER SHE WANTS TO GET UNDER TRUMP'S SKIN, BUT ALSO TO DO IT IN THE RIGHT WAY. A HUGE MOMENT WOULD BE A HUGE ABORTION MOMENT WHERE SHE PUSHES HIM ON ABORTION BECAUSE WHAT'S CHANGED SINCE 1992 AND EVEN MORE RECENTLY THAN THAT IS THESE DEBATES LIVE ON. THEY USE THEM IN CLIPS FOR SOCIAL MEDIA. THEY WANT THE FOLLOW-UP EARNED MEDIA COVERAGE AFTER. THEY THINK WHAT THE MOMENTS ARE GOING TO BE. FOR HARRIS, I THINK THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS SHE'S A PREPARER. WE LOVE THAT. WE APPLAUD PEOPLE WHO DO THEIR HOMEWORK. AT A CERTAIN POINT, YOU HAVE TO PUT THE NOTE CARDS AND THE BINDERS AWAY AND BE IN THE MOMENT. >> YOU WANT TO SEE HER LESS SCRIPTED? >> YES. AS YOU JUST DID IN YOUR INTRO, WHICH IS SO TRUE, TRUP IS A CIRCUS PERFORMER, MY WORDS. IT'S VERY DIFFERENT FROM, SAY, BEING IN A JUDICIARY COMMITTEE HEARING WHERE YOU'RE IN CONTROL OF THE QUESTIONS YOU'RE ASKING AND WHAT YOU'RE PUSHING THESE PEOPLE ON. YOU HAVE TO BE AGILE AND, THEREFORE, LET GO OF THE BRIEFING MATERIALS. SHE'S SMART. SHE KNOWS THEM. YOU HAVE TO BE IN THE MOMENT. SHE HAS EVERY CAPABILITY OF DOING BUT THAT WILL BE KEY IN TERMS OF HER PERFORMANCE. >> BOTH OF YOU MENTIONING WHETHER OR NOT SHE CAN AFFECT TRUMP, WHO FAMOUSLY DOMINATES THESE TELEVISED SCENARIOS. BOB, THEY PUT OUT AN AD WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE A CLUE, BECAUSE YOU COULD CUT AN AD AND HAVE A DIFFERENT MESSAGE ON THE DEBATE STAGE, CITING OBAMA MESSING WITH TRUMP. TAKE A LOOK. >> HERE'S A 78-YEAR-OLD BILLIONAIRE WHO HAS NOT STOPPED WHINING ABOUT HIS PROBLEMS. >> OH, SHE HAD A BIG CROWD. OH, THE CROWD -- >> THIS WEIRD OBSESSION WITH CROWD SIZES. IT JUST GOES ON AND ON AND ON. >> BOB, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT STRATEGY, WHETHER WE SEE IT ON THE STAGE FROM HARRIS DIRECTLY, TO TRY TO GET SOMETHING BACK OUT OF TRUMP? >> I THINK THAT'S A BRILLIANT AD. IT WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY WITH ALL THOSE THINGS. I THINK HARRIS HAS TO DO FOUR THINGS. NUMBER ONE, I THINK SHE HAS TO CONTINUE THE PROCESS OF INTRODUCING HERSELF TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THE POLLS SHOW 28% DON'T KNOW ENOUGH OR DON'T KNOW MUCH OF ANYTHING. SO THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY BUT ALSO A CHALLENGE. I THINK, SECOND, SHE HAS TO AVOID TAKING THE BAIT. THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF BAIT, AND YOU DON'T WANT TO TAKE ANY OF THE BAIT. YOU HAVE TO USE THE KISSOFFS, THE PIVOTS, SUCH AS SHE USED IN SOME OF THE INTERVIEWS, SAME OLD PLAYBOOK, NEXT QUESTION, WHO DOES THAT? AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO GET AWAY FROM HIS CIRCUS, GOOD WORD, AND TRY TO DO YOUR OWN THING, SHOW YOUR OWN CAPABILITIES. THIRD, I THINK SHE HAS TO DEFEND THE BEST OF THE BIDEN RECORD, AND THERE'S A LOT THERE, A LOT OF GOOD THINGS. BUT SHE ALSO HAS TO DO WHAT HUBERT HUMPHREY NEVER DID, AND YOU GUYS ARE TOO YOUNG TO REMEMBER HUBERT HUMPHREY. NEVER SEPARATED HIMSELF, JUST THAT BIT FROM LBJ, THE SAME WAY SHE HAS TO SEPARATE HERSELF A LITTLE BIT FROM JOE BIDEN, TO SHOW WHO SHE IS AND WHAT SHE'S FOR THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE LAST FOUR YEARS, BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T LIKED THE LAST FOUR YEARS. AND, FINALLY -- >> YEAH. >> -- YOU KNOW HOW THEY KEEP TRACK OF IN A FOOTBALL GAME HOW MANY MINUTES EACH SIDE HAS THE BALL? EVERY MINUTE SHE'S TALKING ABOUT THE FUTURE, GREAT. EVERY MINUTE SHE'S MIRED IN THE PAST, IT'S A LOSS. JUST LIKE A FOOTBALL GAME OFFENSIVE/DEFENSE. >> THAT'S SUCH AN INTERESTING POINT WE'LL TAKE TO PSAKI. YOU MENTIONED HUMPHREY, WHICH IS INTERESTING TO LBJ, BECAUSE PRESIDENT BIDEN EXITED AFTER WINNING THE NOMINATION LATE IN THE CYCLE, THE LAST PRESIDENT TO COME ANYWHERE CLOSE TO THAT WAS LBJ. HUBERT HUMPHREY NOT KNOWN FOR THE SAME LEVEL OF JOY KAMALA HARRIS HAS BEEN EVINCING. I DON'T KNOW IF I PASSED BOB'S HISTORY TESTS, BUT THOSE ARE SOME PARALLELS, JEN, AND BOB'S POINT GOES TO THE VIEWERS, BY DEFINITION, IF YOU SAY 5, 10 MILLION PEOPLE VOLUME THE NEWS AND YOU'RE GETTING TEN TIMES THAT, RIGHT, THOSE PEOPLE BY DEFINITION AREN'T FOLLOWING IT EVERY DAY. >> RIGHT. >> I HEARD FROM AN OBAMA VETERAN TODAY LIKE YOU, WHO SAYS EVERYBODY KNOWS GAS IS STILL MORE EXPENSIVE THAN BEFORE. AND THEY KNOW SHE HAS TIES WITH BIDEN. YOU HAVE LEFT THAT POST, YOU'RE NOW INDEPENDENT ON MSNBC, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO STILL LOOK AT THE BIDEN/HARRIS THING AND TIE IT TO THE UNCERTAINTY AND ECONOMIC MALAISE AND THEY'RE NOT THAT HAPPY. HOW DOES SHE SPEAK TO THEM, NOT EVEN DONALD TRUMP, GIVEN ALL HIS SINS AND NOW CONVICTION? >> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, SHE'S GRACEFULLY DONE THIS TO DATE. IT HAS NOT BEEN ON A DEBATE STAGE. TO ECHO BOTH OF YOU, THIS IS A LOT HARDER TO DO THAT. IN TERMS OF STILL HUGGING PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHO SHE WAS PARTNERS WITH, BUT SHE HASN'T REALLY POSED SOME BIG DIFFERENCES QUITE YET. AND IN THAT SAME "NEW YORK TIMES" POLL, 60% OF PEOPLE WANT A CHANGE. THAT'S A REALITY, THAT'S CERTAINLY ON HER MIND. I THINK THE KEY THING I'M GOING TO CONTINUE THE VERSION OF THE FOOTBALL ANALOGY AND TRY FOR BOB BARNETT OUT THERE, SHE SHOULD GET POINTS, I DON'T KNOW, TOUCHDOWNS, WHATEVER, EVERY TIME SHE MAKES IT ABOUT THE PEOPLE SITTING AT HOME. THE THING ABOUT THE FIRST DEBATE, IT WAS LIKE A CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM. IT WAS NOT REALLY ABOUT THE PEOPLE SITTING AT HOME. AND ULTIMATELY WHEN SHE'S AT HER BEST, WHEN JOE BIDEN IS AT HIS BEST, HOW THEY WILL FIGHT FOR THE PEOPLE AT HOME AND HOW DONALD TRUMP IS FIGHTING FOR HIMSELF. SHE CAN TURN THE MESSAGING ON ALMOST ANY TOPIC TO THAT AND ON THE ECONOMY QUESTION, JUST TO COME BACK TO THAT, THAT'S HOW SHE DOES IT. I AM A PERSON WHO WANTS TO CONTINUE THE WORK AND BUILD ON IT AND I WILL BE FIGHTING FOR YOU. HE'S GOING TO FIGHT FOR HIMSELF. THAT WAS THE MESSAGE IN 2012, BY THE WAY, WHEN BARACK OBAMA WON RE-ELECTION AND THE ECONOMY WAS NOT FULLY RECOVERED, THAT'S A GOOD MESSAGE AND A GOOD FRAMING ONE FOR HER AS SHE GOES INTO THIS DEBATE. >> UP KNOW IT'S A BIG NIGHT IN AMERICA WHEN WE TURN TO FOOTBALL INSTEAD OF LYRICS, OKAY. WE'RE GOING AS -- >> I MAY HAVE BUTCHERED THAT, BUT I TRIED TO CONTINUE IT, A FIELD GOAL, A TOUCHDOWN, YES -- >> CONVERSIONS, TWO POINTS. WE'RE GOING FULL MAINSTREAM. I'M OVER ON TIME THEY'RE TELLING ME, BOB, BEFORE I LOSE YOU, YOU, OF COURSE, WORKED FAMOUSLY FOR ALL OF THESE DEMOCRATS, WHAT GRADE DO YOU GIVE DONALD TRUMP OVERALL AS AN EFFECTIVE DEBATER IF YOU'RE REALLY BEING HONEST? I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT FAIR, LIKEABLE. WHAT GRADE? HE HAS IN THE DEBATES BEEN PRETTY EFFECTIVE. >> I WOULD SAY THIS, WHAT HE DID IN THE BIDEN DEBATE WAS COME IN WITH TEN READY ANSWERS ON TEN TOPICS THAT YOU KNEW WERE GOING TO COME UP. >> SURE. >> AND NO MATTER WHAT THE QUESTION WAS, HE ANSWERED THE TOPIC NOT THE QUESTION. WHICH TAKES ME BACK TO THE ROLE OF THE MODERATORS, WHICH TAKES ME BACK -- >> ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE A GRADE? >> A GRADE? >> LAWYER TO LAWYER, ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION? >> I DON'T THINK HE'S A GOOD DEBATER. >> YOU DON'T? >> I THINK HE'S A GOOD TALKER. >> PERFORMERS. >> HE HAS A LOT OF WORD SALAD BUT NOT EFFECTIVE. EVERY TIME SHE TALKS NOT ABOUT YOU AT HOME BUT A SPECIFIC PERSON -- WE USED TO TEACH, USE EXAMPLES, USE SOMEONE YOU MET, THAT'S REALLY POWERFUL. >> SO THE GRADE IS? >> FOR HIM? C-MINUS. >> JEN? >> OOH, I'LL GIVE HIM A C FOR PERFORMANCE, AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT DEBATES ARE AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING TO REMEMBER. THE MOMENTS WE REMEMBER, THE HANDSHAKE, IS THERE LEERING? >> HE'S A PROVEN LIAR, A CONVICTED FELON IN NEW YORK WITH THE SENTENCING COMING LATER, ON TRIAL FOR STEALING AN ELECTION. WE COVER ALL OF THAT. EFFICACY ON THE DEBATE STAGE B-MINUS TO B-PLUS. >> HE'S ALSO BEING GRADED ON A CURVE. >> I'M TALKING ABOUT BEING EFFECTIVE. I'LL LET YOU HAVE THE LAST WORD. WE'RE OVER ON TIME. >> CAN I SAY ONE MORE THING? >> EVEN LAST TIME, JANUARY 6, HE HAD A TERRIBLE HAND TO PLAY, AND HE SHOULD BE PREPS EDPRESSED OND REREPORTED THAT AND HE TURNED THE JAN 6 ANSWER INTO SAYING HERE IS WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THE ECONOMY AND THE OTHER THINGS AND THIS HANDOFF AND THIS WHOLE DIVERSION. IT WOULD TAKE A STRONG REBUTTAL OR MODERATOR TO CLEAN IT UP. I DON'T MEAN HONEST. GO AHEAD. >> YES, I AGREE. NOT HONEST, DISHONEST, NOT TIED DOWN BY FACTS, NOT TIED DOWN BY DETAILS OF POLICY ISSUES. SO WHAT I MEAN IS -- WHAT I MEAN BY GRADING ON A CURVE NOT BY YOU BUT IN ADVANCE OF THIS DEBATE, IF HE DOES NOT CALL HER A NASTY WOMAN AND DOES NOT SHOUT AT HER AND SOUNDS MARGINALLY COMPREHENSIVE OR MARGINALLY NOT CONFUSED, THEN THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO SAY HE WINS, AND THAT'S WHAT SHE'S COMING UP AGAINST. >> I HEAR THAT. >> OVER ON TIME. FINAL WORD, BOB? >> ONE FINAL THING, JAMES CARVILLE USED TO SAY THIS WHOLE ELECTION IS ABOUT 20,000 PEOPLE IN EACH OF SEVEN STATES, AND THAT'S THE AUDIENCE FOR THIS DEBATE. AND I HOPE THAT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS KEEPS THAT IN MIND. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MAGA PEOPLE. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE COMMITTED