LIVE Reaction: The Harris-Walz Interview, with Shellenberger, Batya, Michael Moynihan & Olly Wiseman

uh this is the main event we've watched we've watched that debate um not debate that it was no debate actually that that interview and I just want to go to you guys um and just get your general Impressions I will say one thing at the top very brief thing is that bot and I have talked about this before and I love to get something that we agree on because you know it's it's always good to just come together in a Kumbaya moment I like Tim Walls I mean he that it's true that he is a likable guy his answer about his son in a question that I think was totally unnecessary when you have a limited amount of time with people who don't speak to the media and might be the next president and vice president but I do think he's generally likable Michael um yeah I don't know I don't know where to even go with this I've so many comments and so many frustrations what let's let's start with the negative because I'm a jerk um what frustrated you Mo most about that interview that we've been waiting what 34 or 35 days for well yeah I mean let me say something I'll say something positive first but I mean I thought it was a very strong finish for kamla and walls extremely strong I think it actually redeemed the whole thing we know that we know how events work psychologically like the way things finish have a big impact on how we remember the event so I think that probably that last part makes up for it I think uh Donna was it Dana how do I say her name I can't say Dana Bash right I believe it's Dana Dan sorry Donna um I think it was you know it was a you know Dana kind of left it on a plate for them so I don't think it was a super difficult thing but yeah that natural warmth of Wallace is what you're looking for he's a very familiar character for that he is that kind of Bas you know he assistant coach he's there's a there's a humility there that is really really working for him um and then of course I think you know she doesn't she's not as capable obviously or maybe not obviously but I think she's not nearly as capable as Obama as kind of addressing race in a way that really resolves it but I will say as somebody that I think like a lot of you know Free Press listeners that has been kind of um disturbed by the ways in which a kind of new racism has emerged in the form of wokeism I was kind of relieved to see her just kind of be like I'm not even going to deal with it because it feels like the country is ready to move on from that really awful you know last three years you know um culminating the summer of 2020 um but yeah I mean again I just kind of go I find it a little depressing and I've been blackpilled over the last few days a little bit being like you know here she's just succeeding on you know um honestly what I think is mostly vaporware I mean you know I you know you know B you mentioned the the price gouging she didn't really defend price controls there and you know she just got you know raked over the calls on price controls including by me and others so it's not really clear and of course we now know the grocery stores have a 1.5% profit margin which is really proof that there's not any significant price scouching going on of anything that you could actually address so yeah for me it's just a little bit like it's a little cynical as a campaign pain it's really relying on on emotion and kind of um you know word salads rather than something sharper which I think we saw even when Obama wasn't super policy wonky there was still a kind of a theme a story it was tied to his own life story his character certainly the same thing with trump super sharp it was about you know protecting National borders and the national uh economy so yeah for me it doesn't deliver but that it doesn't mean that that's a barrier at all to her winning olly um you g ask me a question Michael no I because there's there's just if I ask you a question ol I go on for 20 minutes because I'm frustrated by this whole thing well why don't I ask you this because this is one thing that's sticking my I mean I think Michael is uh mostly right in that and you know the the price gouging stuff which he's kind of walked back a little bit because you know everything is being you know sort of tested and it's not working so they walk back there's a lot of stuff that she's changed her mind on and I will say this to anybody who is watching CNN I don't know if the three of you were before this there was a panel of six people one of whom is a republican one is kind of pretends to be a Republican and they were all saying you know she pretended in 2020 to be a progressive that's when she was pretending she was a prosecutor before and then she turned and now she's getting back to who she really is and that was you know the and choir of everyone nodding and saying yeah yeah that's absolutely right but you know she could have pushed her on things that like BLM like the defund the police stuff which people really really don't like race stuff I agree with Michael um and I think bot might have said this too that the non-answer was the best answer on the uh Trump stuff that was like I don't want to talk about it I think it's the right answer I thought that was smart but you know I don't know did do did we miss opportunities here that there's so much stuff that she seems to have and you know is she trustworthy yeah because we were asked we we she was asked about um fracking right and she was asked about um the immigration stuff and and and then economics like those were the big kind of meaty things we got which as you say leaves a lot of things off the table and and I would much rather have heard about about those I mean you know covid and the handling of Co their handling of covid for example Tim Walls her record in the Senate we didn't hear anything about I mean she was a Senator very Progressive Senator um and instead we got you know yeah Gus walls seems like a great kid but like we you know we we have when you only have half an hour with them I would have liked a bit a bit more of that certainly I also thought you got a real sense of some of the challenges she has on the camp in this campaign in a way maybe we haven't had yet and it's not so much her record before 2020 it's a this weird way we actually has to kind of Be the Change Hopey changy candidate but also is the sitting vice president right there's all this stuff about like we've had enough of the last decade and it's like well you you guys were in charge for four of those ten years so you know that is just this incredibly awkward thing she she has to deal with which I don't think she's dealt with satisfactory tonight um did you see the clip of Ben Stiller being asked to about he said we need change it's like you know she's the vice president but what about the Israel answer what what did you think about that um well I want to hear what you found frustrating because that's really interesting then I want to see if I can respond to any of that because um like I said I I think she really knocked it out of the park so I want to hear what you felt like so frustrated by me in particular or Michael or um well look I I think that when you if you were to put that entire um you know interview into you know chat GPT and say here take all this all these words and give me something substantive out of it I don't get much I mean the T the the child tax credit was the most that I got and you did you did mention that I mean I disagree you know Ben Shapiro you know he's the kind of weather Van for a lot of conservatives that he tweeted during this wow is she awful I didn't get that Vibe as such that she was awful or that she was you know I just didn't get any sense that you know when she's talking about immigration you know you said at one point that this should be a MISD demine or this shouldn't even be a crime to cross the border and her response is well you know transnational criminal organizations when I was a prosecutor you know Madam vice president that's not what we're talking about and you know it and I think that like you know the questions to to Tim Walls did you misspeak I just the framing of this stuff I think that like Michael um those things about Tim Walls in particular and I'm just now talking about the sort of General disappointment with the interview is that you know I don't find those things that disqualifying I find them you know it's a little weird and maybe you you sort of plump up your resume here and there but I just think that there's so much stuff about where this country is where it needs to go you know inflation solved bomic worked no and and and they should know that American voters don't feel that way and also the the inflation stuff is because of Donald Trump and the Biden Administration spending like crazy and is there an answer to that rather than just saying well here's a Panacea and that is uh price controls I mean we tried that in every country that has has resulted in shortages and failures I just didn't get anything out of that that you know I think that the the immigration thing and I'll say something that I think you might agree with pcha the immigration thing you make a working class issue as Bernie Sanders used to and he backed away from it because it no longer became popular in his party when he was running as a Democrat but is it lowering the wages of workingclass Americans I mean there's a lot of economic studies that suggest that's true glom on to that and say look I don't have a problem with immigrants we need immigrants immigrants is immigration is a great thing my parents are immigrants but you have to do it legally and it's very very much hurting the working class I think that's and not just talking about transnational criminal organizations give us a real policy on immigration because that's usually number you know two on voter concerns so I think that she um has given herself a much harder task than she had to which is she is refusing to do what the entire uh Democratic Elite establishment did and throw Joe Biden under the bus um she has been treating him with a lot of as much dignity and respect as a person possibly could in this situation um she could have in this interview done what the Obamas did what Pelosi did what everybody did and just say look it was a disaster you're right the American people are hurting um it was terrible and I'm going to do this and this and she has assiduously refused to do that which means that she has given herself the task of both not disavowing the last three years and um sympathizing with the American people who are struggling and trying to offer um a solution something um to help now I was scathing after her um DNC speech thought I thought had everything you guys are saying right now about this interview I think was true of that but I think that what she did here was really signal a VI shift in the Democratic party um away from the identity politics like all of you pointed out like she's she when she refused to pick up on Donald Trump saying something that everybody called was racist etc etc I mean you it's it's unimaginable that Obama would have done would have just left that on the table um just simply saying I am not going to engage in that next question refusing to call Donald Trump a threat to democracy like you pointed out Oli I mean this is a real Vibe shift in terms of Democrats messaging to say we're not playing that game anymore we're going to make a play for the working class again we're going to make a play for to be the party of the middle class because of course that's what Donald Trump is doing the whole RNC was about restoring the American dream now again we don't have to agree with her sort of thre plank economic populist agenda but she did make it she did lay it out she suffers from a lack of conviction because that is not who she is she is a person who frequently changes her mind and of course people are going to say so we can how can we trust that you're going to do anything that you're saying that is always going to be a valid question for kamla Harris um but I think that she really acquitted herself well here except on immigration where I totally agree with you Michael what I would say to you though is if the Democratic party is going to return to where it was in the 90s and say look we got immigration wrong we threw our lot in with the over credential Del leads the consumers of low wage labor and so we open the border to give them a lot of maids and nannies and landscapers we realized that was was wrong we want to go back to labor we're going to reclaim that position if they were going to be doing that in five years in 10 years this is what the first step towards doing that would look like it would be somebody saying you know going from saying I believe we should be decriminalizing illegal border crossing as KLA Harris did in 2019 to saying there should be consequences there must be consequences I mean it's obvious from this that the Democrats have got the message that the open border is unacceptable and that they have to really reverse course on that so I think she really could not have acquitted herself better here um she did a really good job and I I was not expecting that and I really do think that we can now say this is now an election on the issues how do you help the working class become the middle class do you in you know do price controls give people 25 you know thousand tax credit when buying their first home and Institute the child tax credit or do you Institute the child tax credit close the border and get rid of free trade and impose tariffs right those are the two model that are at stake here this is a great election guys this is going to be an election on economic policy and I I for one looking at this and realizing we're gonna get economic populism no matter who wins not be happier I wish someone would just strangle me right now if those are two options and I think boder by the way the Democrats can't go back and they've want learned one lesson if you remember in 1993 on immigration uh Bill Clinton's two nominations of Kimba wood and Zoe beard uh who had both um you know the nanny gate stuff who had both employed um immigrants as nannies Michael um you know this I don't know where do you think this leaves her after this I mean you know you get the bump here as a convention bump I mean she's finally sat down for an interview there's been a he's been a Feeding Frenzy amongst people on the right who have this very very easy attack line is she in a better position now is this going to open herself up to more interviews do you think she's going to feel comfortable after this and say yeah let's just make this a real I mean Donald Trump is out there talking so much that he appears to be just making up policy now we're funding IVF did anyone see this today we're gon this this the federal government's G be funding IVF and now he's like you know the abortion stuff in Florida because he talks too much I mean do you think this helps her in any way yeah I mean I think that where we're at right now is that that it's 5050 I mean I just say there's some polls and there's different whatever and yes she's surging but whatever but it is 50/50 right now and so I think that this is an election that very well that I think really could and probably will turn on the performance of these two individuals uh Trump and Harris over the next uh what is it a couple of months um and I think that does make the race very exciting I think we also saw Trump come back from this winging it thing where he was just winging it I'm gonna go talk to the black journalist I'm just gonna do my thing obvious that it really starts at the at the it's so hilarious though it can be it can I mean you know it starts at the RNC where he he literally interrupts his own speech the overly long written speech that he interrupts with just petty stuff it was a moment for him to complete this transformative Arc and be this softer more transformative leader and he blew that at the RNC um and then he was just winging it really until this week and this week then it clearly you know I think that this ruthlessness on both candidates to just to just throw their base under the bus um shows a real desire to win I will have two exceptions to that though I think both on the fracking and the immigration talking points that she gave you have to understand that those talking points are a desire for her to both position herself as moderate but not alienate the base I mean the the lwh hanging fruit for anybody that knows anything about energy is to be like the main reason that we've reduced carbon emissions in the United States more than any other country ever was because of the fracking Revolution and if you like Renewables which Democrats supposedly like and actually popular voters they're only possible if you have a lot of cheap gas to deal with the heavy intermittency everybody knows that I mean it's not and then on the migration thing I think she can't pivot away from their position because they are it's a party very captured by George Soros and and a kind of political correctness on the migration thing um but I just a final point I I agree strongly with Bacha on this broader issue which is that look we're in a populist era I I'll call it right now the neoliberal era is over it was starting to Obama was starting to kind of break with it just a little bit but he's basically a NE liberal president um but it's over now and so so you know and I think there's a famous political scientist I believe it's joavan Sartori who does the Sun and Moon theory of dominant and subordinate parties where I think in this case the dominant party with the populist nationalist agenda is the Republicans but you see Democrats now mirroring it so everyone's been like people on the right this week have been or a couple weeks have been complaining that Harris is just a adopting these Trump positions adopting these populist positions um you know and so I think that signals something Much More Much More very significant historically that we'll look back and be like the neoliberal era that began somewhere in the late 70s lasted until around 20 2016 2020 and now both parties are firmly populist and Nationalist and it's really a contest between the two parties for what that means I think that's so smart um olly we got to wrap up final thoughts on uh on this on this event okay my final thoughts are um here's the kind of bearish case on Harris after this just just for the sake of it which is to say it was a competent performance um she didn't embarrass herself she didn't say anything that was going to be clipped and and you know used against her for months on end um but I think what we we we what we did see is a very cautious politician uh and I think if I were if I were a Democrat I'd be worried that I watch watching a presidential candidate who thinks she can just kind of cruise it to Victory if she doesn't screw up and actually it's a very very close race and as we discuss Donald Trump's will do anything don't throw anyone under the bus to win so I worry that there there's a kind of if if I were a Democrat I'd worry that there's a kind of sense in camela HQ that like we got this guys we just have to like do a few interviews and not say anything dumb and I'm not sure that's true I don't think that's what this race is if you want to have more of these things and why would you not because if you watch CNN good God is it boring you have to go to the f.com And subscribe because we can't do it without subscribers um it's only you that makes it happen but the other thing that makes this happen and I want to give one note of thanks because nobody else will is I want to thank neoliberalism for bringing us all of the technology that we are using right now to stream and just do an end run around traditional media thank you neoliberalism and all of you are wrong about that and that's my glofin group end you're wrong bachar Saron as always she's always here and she's always a delight even when she's wrong Michael shellenberger uh smart as a whip and olly wisman and if you don't go over to the Free Press and sign up for his newsletter you're just not getting the full scope of what's happening in American politics thank you all for joining us and we will be back I think next Thursday is that right we're gonna be here next Thursday if not blame me uh but I know bod you will be here so thank you guys for joining us and uh we'll see you next time thanks you guys