Intro hey everyone shark here welcome back to the channel today got a 1 V one for you on the map road to Tunis between a couple of really high level players playing his axis we have ail gath uh who in the game is uh diagnosed with skill issue he's coming from France he's ranked number 33 with Vermont and he uses the mechanized battle group and then playing as the Allies we have jein from Spain rank number five with the US forces and he uses the armored battle group casting this one with me is my buddy Fred he's an upand cominging player who's really devoted himself to kind of learning the ins and outs of the games uh he provides a lot of really quality Insight throughout I'm a big fan of this match because it shows the value of having a super clear plan from the start on a zillig gath's part ju toose against uh trying to preserve some flexibility to adjust your opponent's plan which jezelyn demonstrates really really well U pretty awesome match uh goes pretty late down to the wire uh I hope you enjoy and with that we'll roll on to the video cool so we got jezelyn here on the Match north side of the map playing as the Americans uh getting an engineer out with his Scouts and the barracks immediately and then on the south side of the map we've got a zillig gath playing as diagnosed with skill issue uh and he's got a second Pio and is building his infantry company uh right now deoy Engineers so uh you know we've seen some games on this map and uh actually azil gath is going for the mechanized battle group um locking in immediately which I I think thing is interesting there's not you know an advantage to locking it in right away other than taking away the temptation to go breakthrough uh which is normally um the other and Fred like I mean the other verok battle groups lwaa uh breakthrough coals there's an advantage to picking it early because you get a unit or an ability right kind of right off the bat um but with with mechanize you don't immediately um and I think he probably if is going to do that and lean into the eight rods he's got to Tech the left side of that command tree yeah and that's three points for the eight rods yeah you need three command points so yeah to and and going right there um gred the abandon the Munitions point oh it's cuz they got pios coming up behind them smart so they B in the the uh Munitions point and start grabbing the VP and our preing for these Scouts coming up so two GRS out for a for a zillig gath here um and then a second rifle coming out for jein he grabs this Central Garrison and then hops out to capture the mition point so pretty kind of passive uh start for both sides no one's really pushing they're just trying to show up their fuel resources here using the garrisons to scout the other side M yeah I think he's sandag from as well yeah a lot of sandbags buil early no early mg though on theark side yeah I've seen I think you know if they can get it into this Center uh Garrison that mg can zone out quite a bit of the map but this map does Play Pretty wide and so oh here you go here's the mg I think you need it even with the Gren of the ears being a little bit stronger than they used to be I think you need it to manage the rifles but you don't necessarily need it right away the extra capping power from the Gren is is noer under control I think so as well and if you have like if you can't put it into the like the Garrison it's it's blanked pretty easy by The Riflemen yeah rifles push up a little bit on the center here grenadiers kind of fall back to the sandag they'll do a bunch of damage if the rif try to approach and now as the rifle slide over to the center of the map mg42 on their flank now instant suppression on one rifle Squad and the grenadiers move up to immediately take Advantage leave him jeline already teching grenades which I think is interesting and a zillig gath going for a third Grenadier Squad yeah that's pretty interesting indeed probably for the Garrison for for the for the MP when you flank it but2 oh good Dodge to the grenade there graders get back in the house don't drop a single model mg42 comes up to to support now rifle is in the other major Garrison and actually Oz is going to build up uh veterancy with his tier one so I think he's it feels to me like he's really going to lean into that and then probably the eight rods Jin still hasn't picked a battle group or a commander I heard that like yesterday watching a stream mhm uh where indeed um doing the early uh pety with the tier one just mitigates a little of your early game uh weak early game as the we Mark instead of like going early to tier three or tier two for like those unit in there so you can just hold out a little longer for like TI one yeah good uh good grenade by Jin on the Garrison to knock down a couple of the grenadiers Pioneers come up with a flamethrower eventually Force away the engineers in the center yeah I I I think that works the most if you're going mechanized right because you know you're going for call-in infantry or excuse me call-in Vehicles rather than needing to Tech for them o grenad ear eat a Grenade on Retreat I think the retreat probably saved a couple of models there uh because the damage reduction yeah Vic is the gr and this Garrison standing on the rooftop uh with the Garrison versus heavy cover mechanic it's just not the same as in CO2 so even getting in these little houses uh having a Garrison makes a huge difference low on am is going for the L off company okay that there is a lot of synergy with between the L waa company uh and the mechanized uh mechanized battle group you get the vehicles like vehicles that can repair um which is a pretty cool ability fuel point is being seed by but I think you're right I think he's just going to he's trying to hold out for the eight rods which are usually good counter to USF especially the really rifle heavy play jine getting a mortar out and then going ISC oh o has to be careful of potential Satchel here Engineers yep they flank the mg I feel they were they're thinking about throwing a satchel but they're going to maintain the pressure on the mg42 here them down mg42 finally Retreats so do the grenadiers we see a 221 coming out for a zil yeah and so raid package is under enemy control now I I think I think the eight rods are part of the plan and maybe the the 221 brings the repairability as well as a light vehicle think shows well yeah so it gives him gives him a decent anti vehicle option with the p in case jelin leans into USF light Vehicles a zil gath really good map control now he's grabbed Jin's fuel is holding it with pioneers and he's got this 221 coming up to support taking hits meanwhile jeline counter attacking through the center of the map with engineers and Riflemen it was a good thing he saw like the mine being placed when he moved up with this 2 to1 mhm and like moved around the the center piece and not through the mine so I think I think that's a verok mine isn't it Jesus Christ uh no I don't think so I think the the engineers placed it when he uh Advanced with his 2 one toward there okay yeah it's a it's an American m only hit it now oh something just hit it yeah the grenad just hit it oh I see I'm talking about a different mine the uh the W VP okay yeah and now the first eight Rod hits the field jein he's got a feel it he's building the motorpool um I think he knows he's being kind of out pressured right now by a zillig play here mortar takes away half a health what's that yeah oil was now taking the medical station this Base main base and the at gun build time though is still so long uh Jin's got the fuel especially by the time he has a Manpower he could get a chaffy or a greyhound grenade the two to one is getting the B boook now he's probably preparing for like jeffy's yeah cuz he hasn't seen anything else right um he hasn't seen vs man jein sinking a lot of Munitions into these grenades grenader is almost go down to the rifle n the eight rods there to cover though did jein do the uh the Munitions upgrade from the ISC no not yet so he's paying full price for all these grenades and he still has 30 Munitions available to him you see the Munitions most of the time get taken when you go for bars right mhm just before you go for the bars or just after so that the xra bar is uh cheaper how the you oh air burst BR coming in on 42 to reinforce near yeah oh man a spread on that air is really good 221 using the raid package to capture so 221 a really efficient unit with the mechanized battle group you can do a lot of things they can capture it can heal other vehicles uh and then you get the pener books on it and now it's a decent light at weapon Jin's got his his at gun up here and he he's floating Five Command points he still hasn't chosen the battle crew so that's why so he probably is waiting for Jesus Christ I think he's waiting for more information on what to choose is yeah at this point with Five Command points going armored for the you know the War Machine and some of the light Vehicles might be helpful plus you get the E8 at the end um he I think he's too invested into infantry for Airborne to make sense at this point oh well there he goes armored that's the war machine rapid production Rangers would be tricky because of all the life Vehicles so bleed the man power bleed is very severe then yeah and there we go the rapid production chaffie hits the field and so now Jin in a good spot to counter uh the mechanized build here from a zil his Rifleman has snares uh he's got a chaffy looks like it's hunting for this eight Rod it's going to drive right past the mg42 past the cut off but he swings through doesn't find the vehicle he's looking for and rotates out to the side the 22 the Panzer B is hunting for the chaffy Jager are shre on him now as well so jesin needs to be careful that he doesn't overcommit Captain Mor barrage coming in on mg42 well that was a huge swing and pressure right there uh the chaffy just allowing jesin to be much more aggressive with his Rifleman and he's recaptured his Fuel and is really starting to push all the way through to include capping the cut off point here autles will be distributed imminently and he's just upgrading vs so it looks like he's going to try to continue to rely on these Riflemen to help him maintain pressure oh a gun hit on the uh the 221 here he Survive by 32 Health close grenade grenadiers throw a grenade but rifan Sprint right past it to throw a grenade on mg42 oh that's a lot of damage yeah but only one model and he's got healing in base sector so not a big deal there CRS are pushing us back we're down to 250 hit the good counter capping here with the Jaggers so ail kind of weathers the storm and he's going to continue to put a lot of pressure across the map I think jeline just lost The Rifleman Squad right he already had four and now he building the four I thought he only had three but he's building a fourth now also I thought he already had for we'll uh I'll go back and and check the tape I didn't see it tanzer company and tier four coming out for they've taken our vict Point defend our Victory point we're it for those of you who can hear my lovely dog in the background I apologize we have some people doing some moving nearby so she's very concerned enemy Point Captain occupying the central Garrison here and absorbing a lot of damage Rifleman going to push up through the center here he has to to move the fire with the flamethrower to clear the Garrison yeah but his mg42 is on Retreat and so these rifle are going to be able to push right up past all of this and it's one of those things with the at gun and the chaffy in the back even the eight Rod has to back up against the rifles uh it's just in too much danger of getting wled away quickly just he just so much more can push on all the fronts it's pretty hard to keep keep up with that yeah especially when you have someone uh as good as as jeine is uh kind of managing them he can maintain awareness kind of across the map it looks like he did uh o lost or maybe he converted a jagger to a Grenadier I was going to say I don't remember him losing a Grenadier but he definitely had three and here we go he's got an eight Rod pushing out of base with Jagger Shrek in support they'll be able to counter the chaffy here shaffy gets a hit the Shrek doesn't fire just out of range yeah but it does push the chaffy back so the eight Rod is going to continue to be able to bleed this rifle Squad boy boy is Jeff's going to come in for a second look and you got to think maybe Jin's hoping he can draw the a rod into a mine Grenadier eats a Grenade on the opposite side of the map first W hits the ch eight Rod backs up there mortar's doing work on the mg yeah that mg just retreated again man I thinke good mortar play in this game is one of the secrets to like super high level players if you can keep your mortar harassing the enemy you can do so much work sector's gone you must take it back boy oh boy is J pissed about it we a't get yeah they get flanked by the rifles of BS but only time yeah he got he got him out but yeah that that pinch could have been bad now St been coming out for a zillig in I think that's a good choice yeah that's it's going to help him manage just the the rifle presence across the map but if you look at you know the big picture jesin done a really good job he's actually now he's pushing on a zillig fuel so he's totally flipped the map control problem that he had earlier and uh the eight rod and paner boost are just not doing enough damage putting enough pressure on to prevent Jin from getting a lot of map control here's mg42 these rif to be forced off but they they Decap that Munitions Point enemy mement at least the 221 can uh can cap points for him and so can the eight rod Oh Pioneers Force the captain out of the building here is under enemy control now one of our munition points is being neutralized he pushed back pretty hard now and has some good capping on taking the the points back map control yeah and then the St trooping coming up through the center here Rifleman Sprint to close the distance and here's a grenade dodg pretty easily uh paner hits the chaffie up top so St Trin would probably win against the one rifle Squad but a second arrives and forces them away and then rifles on the flank here push back by the eight Rod gr the year Squad occupies the central Garrison think they know we're here now zillig got a number of command points here as well he's got a Panzer company so I think he can just unlock the panther production he doesn't have to worry about the calling although the price is the same it doesn't really change unlike the E8 where you get the benefit of the uh the reduced Manpower cost if you opt for the build version taking loses report of forc to retreat by combination of rers and a mortar yeah so is zill got pushing back but I think Jin's done a good job of kind of Shoring up his position here in the center and he's floating quite a bit of fuel and Manpower there we go there goes the uh the assault package unlocked for the St gring which make them just significantly better especially when they can use the camouflage bonus and mechanized assault so I think he plans on continuing to leverage these light Vehicles maybe with a Brum bear he's also unlocked the panther we have a surplus of command points BR could do really a lot of work in here yeah especially with the mechanized assault where you get the uh all the bonuses that come with it the reload speed the aura buff to your infantry the force off but across the board aill at pushing through the center uh and making good progress against jelin they've taken our Victory point oh stop troping on the retreat path for the captain and some grenadiers they take almost no damage the retreat yeah they took like none The Rifleman though yep and there's the BR be oh 221 getting picked on by the chaffy oh it pops some smoke good J oh good nice and then crosses up to the Smoke really nice gets the P off yep but there's nothing to follow up here so the chaff will get snared and pushed back really oh here comes the the paner booksa he has to be careful with the at gun yeah so he he explores a little bit but the chaff he pulled back far enough he doesn't get the shot off that's mhm I'm pretty interested to see how the map's going to play now victory points under their control act now because it's quite even now maybe a little bit favor to ail but like the bromar can pretty much Chang that yeah with only one with only one at gun and and a chff yeah now a couple of easy8 together will do a lot of work against a Brum bear oh rifles forced off by St trop and good use of the white phosphorus grenade or the the red phosphorus for them it doesn't matter it still Burns really hot hurts infantry undery well the the tech Depot is coming up for jeline now and he's pretty close with the for an easy8 with the fuel so yeah by the long by the time it's built he'll be able to roll one out so 110 fuel yeah with the rapid the fast deploy it's it's there pretty fast so yeah caner book chaffy squaring off in the center Jer shs in support chaffie thinks about moving up and actually might get punished here if theer can get one more shot off they won't chaff will get away and actually at gun here doesn't see the paner booer so both vehicles get away again Engineers going to get forced Away by the yeah both for both vehicles is really close BR bear pushes the rifles away yeah I think the Brum bear is the right choice um he's obviously going to need a panther at some point to deal with the easy8 but initially getting that Brum bear out to deal with this infantry uh and some of the team weapons although I tell you what Jin's done a great job of making this machine gun a nonf factor he's always throwing grenades sprinting up forcing it to retreat which keeps it off the field and makes it less a lot less useful oh this rifle Squad takes a lot of damage if if A-Rod had followed up might have been able to knocked down a couple of models there under Fire Smalls 100 points remain we're com of close grenade there it is y first easy8 on the field and so far the FY yeah where do you where do you think and then a P4 coming out now for Z which I actually like right and he hasn't seen the E8 yet but he needs the multi roll ability that the P4 provides Brum bear shrugs off the shot from the at gun and from the first couple shots first shot from the easy8 ohos round yeah funny we're both look at the damage on the side H from the from the Bomar it still does a lot of damage if you hit it like Well yeah if it penetrates and it does some deflection damage as well so zillig gath uh actually Jin's going to get us a VP Advantage here so even though didn't get any decisive engagement between the chaffy the easy8 at gun oh there we go so eight rods done oh nice smoke this could be too far yeah but this shot's going to kill it yep so jaffy pretty much traded for the uh yeah it's done just ja traded for the eight Rod oh the bromar is showing it height armor yeah here we go here's the easy8 pushing on it uh Shrek hits E8 E8 got to think about getting out of here oh white Foster canel the he canceled the yeah he canceled it enemy M maybe he's holding out for the Panther now that he sees the easy8 on the field think E8 is going to get away Engineers Retreat probably to make sure they can also repair it as soon as possible zath pushing back through the center grum bear is already more or less at full health Oh Captain retreats to the right side nice good read he really needs to just I think he just needs to demolish the building just use like the Broom Bear to demolish it because it's pretty annoying and he doesn't have a morar or something well he does have the flamethrower and the bromar now to deal with it but but I think I think still think you're right it's just one less thing he has to deal with us oh these rifles are going to Clump up here the Brum bear is going to back up though say if the Brum bear hits them when no and they're going to move away leave him yeah but also hits your own unit viory is under attack it also cost them in model for the grants so that's why he kind of moved in with the grenad also Friendly Fire man I love the awareness here though like jelin throwing a lot of grenades but we've seen a lot of really good Dodges from Zill very sharp like he's on it he's ready easy8 rolling back out I think jein now very concerned with VP press pressure and a zil about to get the Triple cap so the E8 even though it's not healed uh moving to the west side of the map trying to and we'll Force off the St points here comes the paner why does it shoot I thought it was on Range uh maybe it just didn't have sight there it is oh I think it was waiting for that shot where's that coming from strong push here in the center from jesin barage forces away the mg42 so yeah phenomenal mortar play from jlin that mg42 has really not been a factor oh there goes the rifle's so close oh but it's going to get away here easy8 challenged by the Grenadier but it's fine another rifle Squad gets away on very low Health grader is pushing into the center trying to maintain the VP pressure at this point if a Zila gets a Triple cap again this game will be over in a matter of seconds EAS just fully he healed now yeah and he's just about got enough for a second which I think a zil sees coming so he's got a panther coming out now yeah I think she L the someone get us out of here well the good news is with the rapid production literally as soon as he tells it to be built will be on the field St troen fighting in the center um but forced back by the E8 Brumar in support but no heavy at for them until that Panzer hits the field mg42 manages to suppress the rifle Squad so Jin unable to complete the cap on the east side and the paner books are doing a great job of pushing that E8 away second one on the field enemy has 300 points remaining Jaggers are going to force these Engineers offes defend our viic Point players go ahead sorry what were you saying so both players so both players didn't didn't have a lot of uh attack upgrades so Jin probably not because he he doesn't have like the the right uh infantry support center because with the like the mechanized play with the armor battle you probably would have had mechanized yeah so it isn't really beneficial to spend your fuel for it man so one easy8 goes down really lucky but unlucky so they wipe a squad of Jagger but the gred the immediately pick up the Panzer Shrek and between the panther the Panzer F and the Panzer Shrek one of the E8 knocked out territory belongs and that's a big loss for jesin at this point uh he really needs that mobile armor too easy to counter the Panther and the BR bear uh and he's got the right now he has two of the VPS but at this point if ail gets any sort of VP Advantage for an extended period of time this game is over Che easy8 pushing on the Brum bear as well as some rifles cover tzer books a nearby to support but they're going to back out and I think it's cuz he wants his Panther to hit the flank cover position St tro and hold the East VP R does a lot of damage to the rifles eny now the easy8 forc on the east side of the map to deal with the S troin and is a little bit out of position if VAP pushes in the center and that triple that taking 22 one with the paner Booka grenade really effective low God jine using port on him and then rifle Squad takes a bunch of damage from the grenade unable to dodge M Force back by the Yeah it it's so hard it can just take out his squads from a fight with just one shot you have to retreat it if it just land well unlucky almost got engine crit uh if the sticky bomb had gone off just a second later it backs up oh rifles annihilated in the center between the pioneers theer and the panther I think this is Jin committing to the VP fight here risk of losing his second rifle Squad here to the Jaggers oh one more good shot rifle gets away easy8 forces away the jagers yeah they yeah they trade uh trade flank BPS but a zillig gets set up here in Center rumber doing a ton of work to the rifles and so a zil will hold with the center and the West VP and then has an mg42 to put pressure on the east side he's moving it up now to capture and Jin just doesn't have the field Presence at this point to counter this there'll be a Triple cap and that's probably going to be it have been reinforced engine yeah Engineers repairing the ec8 but you know rifle Squad in now a second Squad of St trooping coming out for a Zill fall back and that's it this battle's Build Order Review over all right so before we get into it with uh with Fred I'm just going to go over the build water real quick like we always do so starting out with Aila gath playing as ver mock mechanized battle group uh he rolls with two Pioneers at the start uh builds his infantry company right away selects mechanized battle group he's clearly got a plan in mind gets two grenadiers an mg42 a third at the squad and then he texts the Infantry officer quarters which basically gives all of his tier one units a veterancy boost I really like this right he knew he was investing into that uh into tier one so getting the veterany upgrade actually helps him scale into the mid game and buys him some carry over time before he can start with the the real mechanized play from there he goes to the lwaa company which uh is a really smart choice gets the 221 Scout car out which he uses tremendously well once he gets the Panzer booksa upgrade gets an eight rod and then I think here he recognizes that he doesn't really need to do the eight Rod pack right to hunt down these rifles Jin doing a great job using grenades so he actually kind of tchs out of the the like light vehicle mechanized meta and into the late game Vehicles so from here you see he texts a med station gets one Squad of erses then takes one of his Grins and converts them to jagers as well uh builds his Panzer company and then he goes into his endgame units and really doesn't do a whole lot of building from there so St trupin Brumar Panther and then one St trupin right at the end of the match he had this plan going in I really like how he basically rolled the pressure from the early tier one start into mechanized light vehicles and then carry that through to late game units uh really solid plan executed really well something that I feel like a lot of players can duplicate at least in concept if not in uh like Flawless execution like he did and then uh going into jeline playing as the Americans using the armored battle group starts with a scout and an engineer which I kind of like to see in 1 V ones you get a good mix of utility and capping power builds this Barracks gets three rifles out and then immediately tchs grenades and and a med station the med station is something that like I've seen people delay getting because they're worried about the fuel investment but it just helps tilt the engagements your way especially against units like gr of years where they're high damage but low accuracy with the bolt action rifles and when you're not deal with the uh with the MP 40s um it can be kind of a gamble taking unhealed units out so really smart that he takes that early with the grenades in the med station though he ends up only having three rifle squads for a long time and I think he starts to kind of feel that getting into the mid game suc coming to pressure a little bit from zillig gas uh Vermont build then he goes infantry support center which we're going to talk about here in a bit gets a mortar out which is a good counter to uh the mg42 and honestly like he just uses brilliantly through throughout the match he builds his motorpool gets an at gun out and then this is where he hasn't chosen a battle group yet it makes sense uh for him to like without any other choices the others didn't really make sense for him so he selects the armor battle group and uses his command points to get the discounted Manpower on his vehicles and the rapid production so he gets a chaffy out almost immediately then interestingly he texts bars uh I guess to help his infantry like hold up a little bit better against the veteran grenadiers and the Jaggers gets a four Squad of Rifleman which I think he really kind of needed the whole time to maintain pressure and then at that point he builds the tank Depot goes for a couple of easy eights and I think had he not lost that that second easy eight uh with about a couple minutes left to go in the game he might have been able to extend this one a little bit longer but losing that engagement losing that easy8 he just didn't have enough on the field to kind of uh be as mobile as he wanted to be and close this one out in his favor so um that's all I got here I'm going to go grab Fred and then we will carry on with the conversation Match Analysis and Recap all right so I'm back with Fred here uh and we were talking a little bit kind of off camera um so the first thing is like yeah both these guys really really good uh and you saw you know good you know action counteraction uh in the build order good reads from both players um so the first thing though that we almost always do the jeine lost this one uh on VPS despite really solid play and so the first thing that we look at is like all right what does he do differently and and then Fred brought up this really good point about the timing of the support center selection for USF so Fred I'll kick it over to you to kind of talk through your thoughts there so well when you play like the USF you have like to pick your support center around four or five minutes MH but most of the time uh you kind of want to choose later because in this game as well jeline kind of went for the Infantry support center mhm and I guess I think in hindsight he probably probably would have preferred the mechanized support center mhm when seeing that uh oil good was playing the mechanized battle group yeah and going for the light vehicles but because of the the hardlock on the support center you have to pick it around four five minutes uh you kind of you can't go back and then you kind of also saw it with I think the the the tchs because uh in the end jeline didn't Tech anything from his support center so I I guess that's kind of yeah it kind of says that he didn't like he wasn't uh clear on that uh choice in the end yeah uh you know I think you know so back a couple patches ago when the air support center was was really viable that was a good pick if you weren't sure what your opponent was doing or where you wanted to go because it just gives you a bunch of really good support abilities right um the ISC I think has just kind of become the default like if you're not sure what you want to do the ISC is helpful because you get the captain uh and then you have these other upgrades that make your infantry more viable and reduce their Manpower bleed in this case though like like you said the way that jeslin ended up trying to play the only thing that would have been really helpful for him from this from this support center where the munition Surplus cuz he was throwing a lot of grenades he end up getting BS on his rifles um that that might have been helpful in saving some Munitions but it was also the only thing with the armored Commander that's the only thing he's sinking munis into anyway right it's not like he has some big lake game ability he needs to save him for um I always kind of go back and forth with the using the mechanized support center with the armored battle group because you you don't need the 76 mil upgrade on the Sherman cuz you have the easy so that's one that's kind of pointless but you get the vehicle survivability you get the free repair point you get uh the improvised munitions or the uh the refit of of your vehicles so there's a lot of utility there and so I I agree with you like being forced to choose early can be probably a little frustrating because there's not enough information on the field um for you to make that choice uh like we were talking about at the start of the cast like the verm um a lot of their battle groups there's an advantage to choosing early uh and just kind of committing to a play style uh so it's it's kind of got to be frustrating for the US player when Jin's trying to remain flexible and give himself options but he's still forced to make really like a stylistic choice only a couple minutes into the match um and there wasn't really anything like I there's no other real indication um that uh zillig has gone mechanized until you see the 221 capping a point like that's your first indicator that like oh it's the mechanized battle group right so he has no way of kind of identifying that whereas the captain is a relatively big signature on the US side you can see it right away yeah I mean so obviously the the 30 fuel required for the support center is designed to Pace the USF right so I mean how do you how would you fix that is that is is there ability to potentially back tech and choose a different support command uh support center is it you can build tier three but it costs an extra 30 fuel until you build a support center like what's what in your opinion what's the answer there to mitigate that that's kind of that's kind of interesting I don't know I I think being able to do it free is is the way yeah otherwise you can build like with 30 fuel you you'll be way earlier with all your things yeah you'll you'll be way earlier with your bars with your tier three mhm so yeah yeah well I don't it's pretty it's a pretty hard choice I think yeah sorry that's not a that's not like a super easy question I just put you on the spot there it's a pretty it's pretty uh pretty interesting how you would like mitigate the the 30 fuel uh lock for the bars and your tier tree because balance-wise the rout change a lot yeah and and so like right now you know it feels like us are like the last faction to be able to get at guns out but if you get rid of that support center requirement then they're like the first to have them available cuz the motor pools only 45 fuel right so it's much for like light Vehicles yeah um and then yeah I I just wish the air support center was more viable like in my mind it's just it's too slow the strafing runs get shot down too easily by some of the the axis AA it doesn't need to go back to when they first buffed it and became super oppressive where you just drive around the map deleting everything with airplanes but I think if that was a little bit more viable then you'd see people it' give them some flexibility CU they're like I'm not sure which way I want to go so I'm going to choose Air Support Center for maybe some just like allaround utility uh you know effects on the enemy and that'll give me the flexibility later that I need to to choose a commander cuz like we said like he eventually got to the point where the Airborne battle group doesn't give him a whole lot uh because he's already invested so much into light Vehicles into rifles and going Rangers that late you know maybe it would help uh win some of those engagements but the rifle with the bars are already generally winning against the gred ear um so now it's just an increased Manpower investment when what he really needs is is armored vehicles so he basically got forced by the situation of the armored Commander uh and then he had the you know less than ideal uh kind of support center to support it um yeah I think so as well because yeah when he waited pretty long for taking the battle group because you probably wanted to know what oil good was playing mhm and when you see the mechan I being picked you probably want something like armored because yeah when you know your opponent is going for the for the eight rat I don't think you want to go for ranges yeah because oh so much RNG yeah you're going to bleed so much Manpower yeah yeah if you don't get a couple of bazookas in the first weapon drop you're just going to bleed and bleed and bleed um other than that though right so we were talking about this the the match probably turned uh when there was that unfortunate engagement he has two easy eights they knock out the Jagger Squad and then a Grenadier Squad throws in a Panzer F picks up the Shrek in between the Shrek and the panther knock out one of the easy8 that is probably the turning point for this whole game right there I mean losing the the chaffy earlier uh not ideal but to counter the Brum bear to counter the panther you need those E8 in the team you need to started getting some like critical mass and uh and only having one on the field is just not enough mobility and flexibility for for jazine no I think so as well because like there was only one at gun on the M on the map and losing the second E8 was pretty harsh like it was earlier in the match he had like he went almost to oila base with his push and he had like almost a whole map and then he was pushed back a little it's I think it was around the time the bromar came out as well M and then yeah when the bromar is on the field and you you have only like infantry and a cheffy well that's going to be hard yeah yeah for sure like like one 18 gun and a Jeffy aren't going to do much against the bromar if you if you if it's supported by infantry or an mg or things if it's if it's like isolated then it's no problem but yeah well supported bromar it's going to be so annoying lately I've just to your point lately I've become a little bit skeptical of the chaffy just because if you can't get it into a decisive engagement where you actually knock out one of your opponent's vehicles um I'd almost rather have the uh the Hellcat it's only 20 more fuel I mean obviously you have to to build a tier four but if you're surviving this long with rifles and an at gun the extra penetration the extra range from the Hellcat does a lot more to threaten the Brum bear like the chaffy can't go Toe to Toe with the Brum bear it actually probably lose even with the deflection damage on the on the Brum bear rather than penetration so yeah well probably if you if you can like speed around it constantly if it's like a One V one you probably win you just keep getting behind it yeah but well the cheffy was of course for the eight rat and for the 2 to1 but when the jagas come out with the with the f I think one F probably does almost half of its damage maybe a little less yeah so like two or three shots will just uh annihilate the and zil he had the grenadiers all over the map right he had the 221 with the penzer booksa so he had a lot of built-in counters and part of it is probably just obviously jesin doesn't get to see the whole map like we do I don't think that building a chaff is a mistake I I'm just starting to think that like lately in some of the games where I've I've seen it it comes out late enough that it's its window to really be like effective is diminished and it ends up being kind of this unit that like you roam around the map but it's worthless against infantry uh it can't capture points for you all you can do is really hope that you get in a decent flank with it and then it gets hit by mine it gets paner fed and then then it's gone it's a 50 fuel investment that that didn't pan out for you yeah that's pretty hard it's it's a pretty o in unit M like yeah it's it's pretty o in because it can't do much against infantry and it's pure a so that's kind of hard and indeed if you have like uh F running around everywhere or like the getting well maneuvering in there is pretty hard with The Jeffy even though it's pretty F yeah especially against really like really talented players right that know how to micro and keep their unit spread out then it gets it gets really challenging uh real quick before we move on to Oz a couple things I want to call out from from JN so first off mortar play was just outstanding uh between the mortar and the rifles the he kept the mg42 from doing really anything productive for most of the match um so that's something that like when someone really knows how to use a mortar it's is an infuriating to play against and that's what it felt like just watching like that thing was constantly whittling down GR squads pushing away the mg um just doing a lot of work at one point it knocked half of the health off of the 221 too um so big props to Jin on his mortar play um I also really liked the the play with the captain uh did a really good job of keeping it up front using the mortar barage and some of its abilities to kind of uh help him turn some engagements um and then for both players really enjoyed seeing the grenade Dodge kind of play and counterplay there um as each one of trying to read what the other guys's going to do uh you know fake grenade throws grenade throws into the building or near the building at the exit Point using the other exit like just really clever all the way around you can see both players trying to figure out what the other guys going to do so um I thought that was that was really solid yeah just just the amount of events happening at one point in the match because like there were like battles on all fronts constantly so that was a lot nice to watch it well was pretty hard to keep up with all the nades and the engagements yeah it's it's tough enough just casting keeping the camera on the action you know and then you hear grenades you hear sound cues from across the map and and obviously the players are already there and already maneuvering um so they were just kind of all over the place doing a really good job uh for zillig gath I I think he he did it exactly right right he developed a lot of pressure early which is difficult to do playing verat against USF um countering kind of the rifle pushes a lot of early pressure steamroll that used uh some of the abilities with his battle group to kind of maintain the pressure through the mid game and mitigate the power of the USF like motorpool uh and then he just made good choices and really like refused to make mistakes in the late game and closed it out I don't have like to me that is a a great way to execute the mechanized battle group from verm like pretty solid yeah I think so as well like the lofu a company was really nice as well because Theus with with the the the Shreks were like really good against the the potential Jeffy mhm because yeah The Jeffy couldn't do much and after that the E8 also got chunk by it so that was really good he had like at one moment he struggled a bit when he was pushed and he just lacked the Infantry against all the rifle squads M and like the captain and the Scout Squad so and then you then the bromar came and that kind of relieved the pressure a bit just around that time you the I think it was like uh 50/50 the map control and then the bromar came and I think from that point it kind of well I I think from that point obviously obviously the game could swing anyway yeah but well the Broar just did so much damage MH also killed like 28 squads and a friendly so uh squads three it's three so yeah well just being able to keep it there in the center and manage the center VP and kind of blunt all of the pushes that jlin had cuz uh the flanks the St trooping are going to beat rifles on the flank the easy8 can't be everywhere once you get the Panther on the field the pan using the Panzer books it to kind of counter it like lots of really good play um yeah really impressed with the 221 I've seen it used before but never quite to that level of Effectiveness so uh yeah really really annoying if you every time you push if you every time you push your 8 and you get like the the foser round in your face it's really annoying yeah oh yeah um but yeah waiting like he floated a lot of fuel but he didn't like he even canel the the P4 I'm pretty interested why he canceled that probably because he wanted to go for the Panther yeah oh I guarantee you I I you know he saw that first E8 hit the field and he's like yeah actually P4 is not going to cut it I need the panther yeah I think so as well yeah P4 would have been good without the E8 there um but the panther also helps him like if it's not an easy8 if it's a Hellcat right or a couple of hellcats a panther will help you fend them off better than a P4 will because they'll just chunk down a P4 so fast um and he had this between the Brumar and the St troin he had enough anti-infantry to to make it into the late game there yeah yeah indeed he even built like another St St right at the end MH yeah which could be a broom bar or something else but like just having the Infantry to like capture and he didn't need an extra tank or armored unit yeah so I guess that was really well played yeah even even at V zero the St trooping scale really well against the rifles um especially when you use them well and you keep them at range so um yeah really well well played uh by both guys um you Fred do you have anything else uh for these guys before we get out of here the only thing I'm I'm kind of interested in is like uh why oila didn't teag like the his final building like his tier four star I don't know what's called at the moment but I'm kind of interested why he uh he didn't tag that oh the veter yeah the veterancy one with the broom bar and like the panther that's interesting I you know I'll see if I I'll see if I can ask him um or yeah with the St Trin like he went for the St Trin and like it was interesting and I would like I'm kind of interested in the end and probably was the first point we like made is like uh why the why he jeline didn't tag the the Munitions because uh even for like the The airburst Barrage cost like 25 M and like the at gun has like the ability to uh the armor penetration ability cost like 50 mun as well and just lots of nades and things like minds and things so I'm really interested in that as well just uh the I'm just kind of interested when you uh when do you tag and when do when don't you tag yeah kind of so I mean so I have a guess and if I can if I can get a Zila to give me some uh some perspective on it I I'll come back and add something to this but uh in these games when you're playing across the map against someone who's also really good and really high like actions per minute you spend a lot of time in the tack map and in your various engagements trying to make sure that you don't lose anything like sloppily so that's why I think you see them kind of tech in bursts right think about when jezelyn chose armored right it was no choice no choice no choice and then he just picks the entire left side of the tree yeah is true and and so that's what it feels like to me is he's he's not thinking about teching he's thinking about winning the engagement and what unit he needs next to build his composition and so when he finally like opens the battle group menu or he finally opens the training center he's just going to get whatever he needs and then move on to the next thing um and you actually kind of saw the same thing from a Zill gath like uh he knew he needed the eight Rod but after that he built up a bunch of command points before he went back in and chose what he needed the right side yeah and I think it's just it's the the pace of the game prevents you from spending a bunch of time sitting back and thinking about it whereas we're watching and we're like why hasn't he picked this yet oh man I can't believe he doesn't have the APM to micro five engagements and choose his command points you know so that that would be my guess makes sense I'll uh yeah I think so as well I'll I'll ask him you know and then see what he comes back with sure cool well Fred uh thanks for casting this one with me this is a lot of fun yeah thanks for having me yeah of course a while yeah that's what happens when everyone everyone has a job in a life right but um yeah and and like six hour difference yeah time difference no big deal just stay up later okay yeah sure I'll try I try to manage that all right I appreciate it dude uh that's all for us guys and uh we'll see youall in the next one for