Measure 4 break down with Josh Askvig from AARP

my name is Nick archeleta I'm the president of North Dakota United and I'm guest hosting for uh Joel height Camp who's taken some welld deserved time away uh joining me now uh we're going to discuss a little bit more about measure 4 uh is Josh asig he's the North Dakota state director of AARP Josh welcome to the show hey thanks for having me on Nick and you're you're doing a fine job I might add I have great supervision first time you is this the first time you've guest hosted yeah yeah it is no it's not really no it's not it's been a while though yeah I haven't been here for a while okay I've only gotten to do it once and it's h it's always fun but oh my gosh don't tell me that I'll bug you next time y guess what you'll be doing it again be happy to figure it out but uh no you're doing a great job and uh thanks for having me on today well thank you uh and Josh we brought you on to talk about uh the the measure four uh and you and your organization are part of uh the keep it local uh Coalition that was formed and you have some history here you uh worked on that same Coalition back in 2012 correct I I did yeah yep certainly did that's awesome so can you tell me the difference uh what was that like in 2012 uh and how is uh today's measure different well uh first of all let me just uh back up and and uh if I if you don't mind Nick remind folks who AARP North Dakota is we're at nonprofit nonpartisan membership organization ation and to empower people to choose how they live as age and we joined the keep this iteration of thecal Coalition um because of the concerns we have about this CLA measure and some of the concerns are the same concerns we had in 2012 you know there's no plan for replacement uh of of the dollars um it it really threatens from our perspective and and I think the Coalition understands this too that the local services that North dakotans 4 and older or North 50 and older excuse me but all North dakotans rely on for those that are 50 and older those are things like transit services senior meals programs home healthcare nurses all funded by those locally elected boards and and this this measure really uh I think one of your earlier guests said takes Sledgehammer to it without any real plan in terms of how those services are going to continue to function especially in rural communities across the state of North Dakota so I I would tell you the measures are different I don't know that um and and to be honest it's been a long time since I went back and read the 2012 measure so I don't remember all of the uh details of of that measure but they are slightly different but they still have the same uh flaw in terms of this really is is not solution that that's going to be workable and good for our communities especially when you realize it's a $3.1 billion doll bill B um that the legislature is going to have to fill uh next year yeah exactly and we don't collect the 2024 taxes upon which every future payment will be based until 2025 so there is some uncertainty there's that is for certain um so I'm sure you've heard this Josh that that senior citizens are among the most hurt by property taxes and you uh have uh I think articulated pretty well that um that there are things that property taxes provide that won't be replaced um so what do you tell people then when they say hey wait a second senior citizens are most are adversely affected by this what what do you tell them yeah I I think a couple of things the first thing is and and I think it just Bears reiterating U if you're an older North dakotan and uh and we know from our 2023 ARP vital voices survey um that individuals 45 and older number one concern as they age stay safe and independent in their commity they want to be able to age in the community in which they reside today so whether that's mclusky North Dakota or final town of Min at North Dakota or you know uh unfortunately rain jumped to my head but I know that um your previous guest already mentioned rain but rain to Grafton to to uh wherever uh that's where they want to age in place and to do that in North Dakota today if they want to stay in their community and in their homes as they age they rely on programs like transit services to get them to and from appointments especially when they lose the ability uh to drive and some of that Independence they rely on senior meal programs that help make sure they get healthy hot nutritious meals um during the week and them healthy and functioning um they often rely on home healthcare nurs you know I I can tell you right now there's a member of my family that if they didn't have access to a home health Nur that's funded by the local County Board um I'm not sure that individual would be able to stay in in their home right now so those are all things threatened under this measure and so I I first remind folks uh of of that then the second thing I remind him is I will tell you arp's gone to B and he led the fight expand the existing home hey Josh can I interrupt quickly and on live on radio can I ask you to move a little closer to your phone I ABS you can absolutely do that there you go thank you no problem um I I probably I I talk with my hand so I probably was covering up my microphone while I was doing it but um so the the other thing uh I would remind folks is arp's led the fight to expand the existing homi property tax credit program and so if folks um own their homes and and they're over the age of um 60 65 excuse me um and they have incomes uh that are below 70,000 in terms of actual income then they qualify for some sort of reduction in their property taxes and and they file it with their local uh County auditor and and can receive relief if they need it and that's a way to ensure that those folks who really need that relief and have need that targeted relief get access to it and it's graduated in a way that as their income's up income goes up their release goes down if their income is lower the release goes up and so it really provides uh circuit breakers as we like to call it for those folks who need that to allow them to um uh stay stay in their home stay independent without putting at risk some of those other programs that that they rely on uh to do it in addition to the Homestead Property Tax uh credit there's also a renters piece of that so if individuals are renter they can get a partial refund on their rent um for their place of residence or their mobile home lot um and then on top of all of that North Dakota has a disabled veterans property tax credit that provides up to $8,100 in taxable valuation decreases depending upon the percentage of a disability of an individual and so this is all a long way of saying uh you know I think there are programs that for those who truly need that relief and truly are at risk there are opportunities to ensure that they stay safe and independent in their homes um to do it well ensuring that um those who might have means can continue to contribute to functioning communities that we all want to live in and don't put at risk uh critical programs to keep our communities healthy safe and and moving forward and that's why we're a part of the keep local Coalition yeah and Joel or Joel Joel's on vacation uh I've been I've been called much worse Nick although although it's probably closed no I'm kidding no that was good I like that so um so if measure four passes those programs you were just talking about whether it's a homestead tax credit the disabled vets help and the help for renters that that all goes away it does um and and I think the the the other piece of it would be not only does that go away but it puts at risk those critical aging programs I mean where would how would you be able to age in in maxbass North Dakota for example if you don't have access to a Transit service and you no longer are able to drive because you're likely as your age you generally need more access to Medical Care Y and so your ability then to get to your appointment um is certainly it's already stressed in today's environment you know in terms of transit services and whatnot but it it's even even more stressed in terms of there is no plan in terms of how those services are going to continue to provide the service they provide today that's right if you're not worried about Transit they can continue to drive okay how about if they rely on meals programs because for some reason they can't um cook their own meals or or do that or if they need someone to come check their blood pressure if the county health nurse isn't available anymore how's that going to get done with me is Josh asig and Josh we were talking uh earlier about some of the the programs that uh that exist to help people whether whether it's a Homestead Property tax credit the renters thing the disabled veterans um we have a text in our in our text club that says your guests are all fear-mongering all of these services will stay the same what do you say to that well if you read the ballot measure I don't I don't think I'm convinced of that I mean the same folks who are proping proposing the ballot measure and promoting it are the same ones who say we can't trust the legislature to to fix it and so I don't I don't think it's fear when these are real services that that folks rely on and are counting on to um remain in their communities and part of it I think it's really easy to say get rid of it and then it'll just get replaced um but but there's real consequences to to how that happens and there's there's probably some things that should be adjusted and and fixed and done different but simply uh picking picking a sledgehammer to this is is not a good solution and it's certainly not a plan um that works especially when you're talking to the tune of $3.1 billion dollar over over the next B yeah big big to try and figure out in a short amount of time for our legislature yeah when you consider that they have what 80 days to figure this out there's something like 10 different uh uh laws in the century code that would have to change even to allow this to be implemented um that that would make them very very busy people uh and they probably couldn't get it done in the uh time that they have we have a call uh Josh and this is David David hi welcome to News and Views yeah I've got two things here number one property tax means you can never own your property if you don't pay it for three years you end up losing it they'll come in take it out from under you and sell it and the second thing is it has all these things for Relief that means we got to go to the government give all kinds of information it's none of their damn business just eliminate the property tax like other states have and make up for it they've got rural places too thank hey David oh I'm he's hung up already I I was going to mention that there is no other state that has eliminated property taxes North Dakota would be the first um and there's a reason for that uh people enjoy driving on decent roads people uh want to get their crops off the field and and they expect to have a nice a gravel Rural Road to to get their their equipment in the field and their crops off the field um Josh do you have anything you want to add to that well I you know I continue to hear this argument that you don't really own your home if you have to pay property tax so do you not own your bank account if you have to pay income tax do you not I mean look taxes are part of providing services for the community and we can quibble over rates and what they should look like but having um a balanced tax system that isn't just reliant on just sales tax or just income tax or just property tax I think is a good a fair way to do it rather than cutting one of the legs off of the stool and and relying on oil revenues which is you read the proponents plan a large chunk where they're proposing to get the money to fill the $3.1 billion bill which is great right now but what happens in 20 to 30 years when oil money dries up and we've drained the Legacy fund and other funds to to to do that then what and what does that look like um in addition uh I'm not sure that there would be an appetite to do that and there's other measures that might restrict the legislator's ability to access some of that funding to do this and so then you're looking at raising other taxes so again we can quibble about and and I certainly understand folks don't love property taxes including older adults um as well but the inability to have adjustments for changing local needs which is what this measure would eliminate is going to be a real problem and differences in you know Northeastern North Dakota counties the southwestern North Dakota counties the Central North dakotan counties they should each have the ability and and communities by the way uh to to uh fund the the services that their citizens and constituents want which is is what happens today and and folks should continue to talk to their local local elected officials if they have concerns about those those taxes absolutely and there's no one here that says that the whether it's the assessment portion of this or whether that the tax itself shouldn't be reformed um clearly there's a there's a desire for that but we really have to be super careful about throwing out the baby with the bath water Josh thanks so much for joining me today hey thanks for having me on Nick and you're doing a great job hosting oh thanks