Bleeding Green Interviews: Alan Tongue

[Applause] all rers fans it's Jared kroer raer 284 here you're listen to episode number four of the bleeding grein podcast Series so it's my pleasure once again to be interviewing uh yet another person in this series of act government SL Heritage interviews um so far they've been just a delight for me to participate in uh but the special guest today is Alan Tong uh it's it is a cliche to say with each of these interviews the person or the people in the case of the fers need no introduction but certainly alen Tong needs none um apart from anything else when I was lucky enough to be uh commissioned to write the history of the club I was looking around for a title and Alan tongue Lon large in that uh as we will get to in the interview um but I really look forward to it and and and Alan basically what you offer in terms of the interviews is something a little different again particularly since I'd like to spend a bit of time later on in the interview in what you've done in life after football because that's been as important as important as your football career was I think it's fair to say the kinds of things you've been doing post football are just as important perhaps in the long term even more important that's saying something given the football career so let's kick things off I know you're a bush boy uh as a number of the Raiders back through the years of been and you grew up in twith so let's start with the first question how important was it to you to be growing up in the bush be going up I can remember playing twith in University shield and I remember as a city boy coming from the northern Beaches they were tough guys but tell us a bit about growing up in touth yeah it was um it was a wonderful childhood um Mom and Dad are my two brothers and their families are still still on the family property it's um it's been in our family for about a 100 odd years up around there um and it was um it was it was a perfect upbringing to prepare me for rugby league I think um one it was it was extremely hardworking um we all had to to chip in um having two brothers the three boys were always out um doing doing a lot of the work with with Mom and Dad um and so it was great and it we had our ups and our Downs there was some real great Seasons as you have on the land and there was some real real tough ones and um but I really treasured that I had a had a close-nit family which was good um and um still very close to this day and and still connected to the land um myself I just I really I really chish my heart bringing terrific now let's go back to the earliest point at which you were playing rugby league when was that when was your first game of rugby league yeah for the pill Valley Juniors I started playing rugby league and was you know I actually played a year of soccer but my brother a couple years older than me started playing and I wanted to be like him and play alongside him and and what not so from about six years old um I got a footy of my hands and started playing and probably since that day I'm nearly everywhere I go I've still got a foot in my hand it's something that is just I just connected I resonated with the game straight away and always love the the physicality of it the tackling and um but just the mateship that came out of it and I just was captured by it I was I was even from a young age not you know there wasn't as much TV um footy on TV as there is now but um I'd even listen to Footy on the radio um I just loved it that much just anything that I could do to to be around it to watch it and and then I remember growing up my majority of my childhood I used to probably get in a bit of trouble from Mom and Dad cuz I wasn't doing enough work on the farm cuz I was always chipping and chasing the footy and playing in the backyard and I'd be commentating to myself and just picture and being out there on the field playing in the NRL uh just running around in the backyard and just um yeah I just soon as I got the foot in my hand from a young age uh I just I've just been captured I've just fell in love with the game was there a point at which you realized that you weren't like you know you were pretty good at this and was that one that fit into how did the Town Football go and what what age actually let me ask that because people would be interested at what age were you playing senior you know into the senior football well I actually never I never played senior footy in TMA so at the high school Farah agricultural high school that I went to um if you made their first 13 we actually you weren't allowed to play locally in town because you were playing University Shield Commonwealth Bank cup and we had an inter School challenge as well so there was plenty of footy going on and so um I never actually got to play for my dad played for the north touth bears in town which probably would have been the club that I would have went to but um coming straight out from school um I didn't get that chance um and did that F just matter like you know reading reading your biog and not you know as I did some time back um you the Broncos picked you up did they not and be interested you know again people would would be interest in that Broncos signed you in some capacity age if if not year 10 11 12 if I'm not wrong and what was what was that all about yeah so well probably before that as well um played in the under 15 school boys um coming through so um you know back to that question probably I was just I was probably good at footy I wasn't I wouldn't say I was unbelievable going through the grades as a young kid um I still just loved it and continue to get um I suppose a couple of little rep sides in year six playing in a a Northwest side going down and playing in penth it was I remember going down and playing there um and then in year nine I made the CHS side um and after that became a little bit of Interest it was a little bit of interest from param to come and do a trial um to come down there Newcastle was naturally the closest toou only been about 3 and a half hours away but the Broncos had always had an affiliation with Farah um players go and try their trade up there and it was only a scholarship it wasn't signing on a dollar line um it was just a scholarship and they actually helped out um paying for some fees as well with with your um uh to be able to go away on trips and different things I knew that had certainly helped Mom and Dad um always give you a few free t-shirts and stuff like that so that that and was that to keep in a sense to keep you and perhaps even the family interested in like there was no no other strings attached as it were in that at that period to the Broncos yep that's right and so it would just mean we'd do a couple of camps um one one in particular in the January you go up in the preseason and you train up there and um that it was a wonderful experience it was a really great with the senior with the the the big side okay few good footballers around there I still remember um doing one of the fitness sessions you know some of the the old school training that they used to do and training alongside Shane whipkey and Alan L Kevy walers and wend saor L takiri Darren loia it was unbelievable as a young kid from the bush to be able to get treated well you know what was yeah I mean there was everybody came in there was sort of you know 20 or 30 odd kids that would come in for a week long camp and they would do a couple of them the Broncos you know cast a fairly wide net and you know I was lucky enough to be a part of that over the three years while I was at school so the obvious Segway is uh the Raiders uh sniffing around and thank humans that uh that they did at that point 1999 you you signed if I'm not wrong end of 98 y end of 98 4.99 and and what was uh what led up to that I mean I suppose you know in terms of interviews or the way in which they' actually reached out to you what led to your joining I suppose them I don't suppose I'm certain that the most famous signature was one of was one maliner but people are always interest in the way in which the club reached you know is reaching out what did they how did they manage it with you yeah so I was really I was really close to um going to the Broncos because of that connection and that over the three years but Mom and Dad came up to the Bronx with us just at the end when we were you know talking contracts we actually went would that be in 98 is and so we went up we went out for dinner with Wayne and his and his his wife at the time and we had had had an exper went to a game and and everything we did the same and we came down to camra Mom couldn't come down um to camra but Dad and I came down um same thing we went to a game who you meet up with here we went back to the Kingston hotel as you do after the game as you do main vain camra culture cook your own State met the players and I was coming away from it and I said this feels like a big touth it feels like a big Country Town Big Country Town yeah and I've always being somebody I don't like crowds I don't like going to shopping centers and I don't like all that sort of stuff it felt like a big country town and I didn't have family down this way um that that I Knew Too Much that was a big big sort of step to come I had some family my mom's sister lives just out of brzy um but that's that's what drew me here it was a it was a country Town um it was that atmosphere the players were great when I met them they just seemed like really down to worth guys and that's so was M coach still coach then yes he was yeah okay okay M was a coach M got that big hand around yours you know not that there would have been much in it I don't suppose so yeah it was great and that's that was simple as that and people have probably tried to say well you went to the Raiders because there was a a clearer pathway or something there for you the Broncos were a star sled lineup that had nothing to do with it it's great to hear that I mean I've heard it a number of times but you know when I was actually putting stuff together for the book The number of times with the bush footballs and a bunch especially early on but but that's continued right the way through and uh amongst other things one of the most uh what does one say considered passionate um uh hobby breakthroughs is is pig shooting if I'm not wrong I'm not not sure whether you've ever been a part of that certainly some of the Raiders have yeah the TR W back up home we used to do but you know like the love of going fishing and being able to go to the mariji out here or whatever it is those little things that and not being stuck in traffic every day like stated that's for sure yeah yeah terrific so let's let's push it on just a little bit um uh debut first grade game in the year 2000 uh if I believe it's correct to say that it was the came on against Brisbane uh that seemed to be but you know a very happy coincidence I guess to to play against them um and what was your experience of that first season in the first grade did you in the top grade did you have what you hear all the time in other words faster harder Etc was that your initial impression or were you well because of your background which would have been a bit different to those you know spoonfed City kids so I I'll give you a bit of a picture here so I'm a a secondy year Apprentice mechanic at the time um I'm working at a place called SCA V Motors out in Philip um I'm in my second year as an apprentice mechanic I'm playing in reserve grade we're playing up in Newcastle we're only at five rounds into the the um season there playing and um I at the end of the game what only took an overnight bag because we were only going up and back we stayed the night before coming home on the bus afterwards Mal come into the dress shets and said I want you to come with us to Brisbane to be a part of the extended Squad I didn't train with first grade I'd been in the reserve grade um just come up from the under 19s the year before and um so I jumped on it was just as cover at the time there was three or four of us as cover um to go up um and the guy that was actually um carrying a bit of a niggle was Kenny Nas I pretty sure it was and so I'm probably thinking I'm not going to be the next in line to play on the wing for Kenny and then only two day two or three days before the game they said you're inate ma said we want you and I think they moved Mark McLendon to the you know Off the Bench and in here and I slotted in there and you're right slotting in where what was in is in the utility value but mainly playing in the second row can cover a bit of nine um and as it it only came in the last couple of days of the camp that we were up there right to get buy some gear while I was up there because I'd only took an overnight bag because I was meant to be back at work my boss was filthy that I was taking the week off um and that's different different time there and so I get this opportunity to play against the club that I was so close to probably signing with if I was going to go somewhere and it was on a Friday night Broncos vers Raiders one of those um I suppose the grand finals that never were um that they always talk about and then abely up against them on a Friday night it was absolutely packed but what about this we're in the warm up and I'm always somebody that wants to do some contact my last thing that I want to do I want to get my contact right right so that's my last thing before I go into the sheds I'm a nervous little you know debutant looking around St and players are all work walking off to go back towards a dressing shed there's fireworks happening before this Friday night game the crowd was roaring and I'm going who's going to hold the tackle pad for me and so I asked one of the coaches now the coach that I had to get to do the tackling was Glenn Lazarus and I came in to do and I was racing in 100 m hour and I hit him my I was like holy doly easy assistant coach what's the real thing going to be like but got out onto the field and um and got into it and was lucky enough we we played and we we we got beat um but came back and then I went to work on the Monday so we we came home on the Saturday I went to work on the Monday but I came in and I remember driving in and M said mate you're late I said oh yeah I've just come straight from work he said boys I've playing with you you're got to be in again next week I was like right so I jumped into the video and had to take a little bit more time off work to make a few more um uh few more uh training sessions and different things like that and in my debut year I was lucky enough to play 22 games yeah just let's just stick with that just for a moment because again people would be interested so there you're balancing work and footy you know and it's and it's tricky at that stage at what point how soon did you make the decision right I've you know I'm going football here I've got it you know that's that's the opportunity that's being presented yeah well I suppose to understanding of it you about three years to do a mechanics apprentiship it took me seven yeah so I just just I mean the good news being that you continue with which smart footballers do you know even today so I it probably um you know in that 2002 I sort of you know really I tried to hang on to it a little bit more in 2000 and 2001 doing a little bits of pieces and knuckled down a little bit more and went back to it again and um but got it finished but it was it's a it's a different era now but they were still you know doing a bit of that work and um you it was important for me too I I found great balance in being able to to it brought out the best footy in me having and I think that and we'll go on to it later but the community stuff has been really important to me and I think it's always given me a great perspective on something outside of football and as we know that's that's precisely what we're starting to hear again again now quite rightly as it becomes such a preoccupation sort of thing in the football has a narrowed off yeah even more call now perhaps even than back then to think about something that gives you whatever it might be outside it could be vocation Etc let's just move on so 1999 just for me to be clear so when you're Rookie of the Year are you Rookie of the Year in '99 or 2000 2000 yeah 2000 yeah but you were coming off them so for the next you know I was surprised in that and I'd forgotten with you know having done the book but I'm not even sure I put it in the book but you were coming off the bench from basically 2000 all the way through to 200 sort of fiveish what was that you know I I know I had a question down on that but did you did you at any point find that frustrating what was you know what was happening in that period of of time where you're beginning to not not by any means second guess yourself and saying you know maybe I'm not going to get in first grade or were you always confident that You' that you make it if you're stuck with it and stuck to the pretty much your own game plan were you you know did you have confidence wi or not I I'm I mean I I don't think there probably would have been times that I might have got frustrated but I don't I can't ever recall thinking you know I'm so frustrated about being on the bench I was just super pumped to be playing NRL um and uh I think that was that mentality that I had and you know for a fair bit of it too I was playing sometimes 50 and 60 Minutes or coming on after 20 minutes of playing the rest of the game and it just that's what the team needed and I I can't ever really remember getting frustrated by it I'd get a start every now and again and but coming off the bench but I was just you know super grateful to be playing and um yeah so it wasn't until yeah the 2006 um that got got a bit more of a chance to play at 13 and Jason kroer moved to Edge back row more so than his lock forward position and we sort of yeah got that opportunity did that happen from the start of 2006 did you have that position or did it soon sort of thing into the season remember but you had you certainly had it early on and that was yeah yeah right so and and and and at that point and it's interesting because that's a long sort of germination period which a lot of place you know I mean I'm and I'm then thinking of your footballing life post 2006 which is so physical so significant in the context of tackling you know I remember it only too well and how crucial that was in the in the years that followed but would you say that sort of almost that that period of of coming off the bench finally assisted in in your first grade career yeah I think I'm I certainly did and haven't I actually cover a number of positions it it's funny in my work that I do now um everything that footy had done previously has actually set me up so well to do the work that I'm doing now and so I at the time I I probably didn't think of it but it was an absolute blessing and having to cover a few different positions I had to really work hard as in you know I'm not just looking at video for a 13 or 111 12 in the edge back row left Edge right Edge back row I've also got a at nine but what have you got thrown in halfback or 5'8 you need to know the plays there and the structure and so I really had to work hard on my game and it and it was a really great um learning curve um you know for me and that really set me up so when I did get well even when I played in 2006 even though I might have started the game I still transitioned between a couple of positions you know um you know whether to come on and just play a little bit of nine while they had to breather and then come back to 1 whatever that may be um I still had to move around in a few of the positions I just ran on how did you find Matt Elliott as a coach it was he was great he was different to what I had what i' had what I'd had previously y um and once again that was because thinking outside of the square or you know in what way different sort of thing for you and it was really once again it's been really important in the work that I do now is actually seeing those sides of it the four coaches that I had all had a different way that they just the viewers and me through it I would be able but yeah malman yeah into Matty Elliot and to Neil Henry in Dave ferer and so they all brought a different and having different strength conditioning coaches to the different style of training and everything that we did but mdy was he was somebody that thought outside of the box and um you know put us in different situations and it wasn't probably a bit like a bit of the old school stuff with Mal and Alex corvo back in the day and you know doing the one kilom time trial runs and different things but there was actually skills games and there was you know different different things and instead of passing just footies we'd be passing tennis balls and different things like that and so it actually changed up a lot of the way that I'd always thought footy was and coming from the bush but he he opened up that you know there's a lot more ways you can skin a cat so to speak let's move I mean in terms of coaches and in terms of of of of the football of the period the Raiders certainly had some some good moments in those first years of the new century as it were but I'd like to actually spend a little bit of time on on season 2008 um the it it was one of those Seasons if I'm not wrong I had AIT bit quick look at the history just to refresh my memory that the first half of the season I think the the team was running it might have been about 50% or something like that and then some of those results That Then followed and some of the football Above All That followed I mean I I you know myself getting on at that point in time and but always appreciative a good footy that footy in the second half of 2008 was something to behold you know we were talking a bit ear earlier before the interview about speed and how important that is it's always been important but at some certain moments in the game speed is particularly important but the one thing as you hear the cliche you know you can't coach speed and you can't but that the way in which the Raiders were putting together some of those results in the second half of 2008 what were you thinking of that would did that surprise you on the field that that you know to go so well in that second half of the Season yeah well there there's plenty to sort of all bring 2008 together I suppose is that you know huge chain change over of players and in 2007 when Neil first came in too it was we actually stripped our right back and we went back to the basics it was really really simple stuff like just you know short side three on twos just real simple drills and then Neil tells us that he's going to move on um we have and early in the season as it turned out players we had um you know challenges with off field dramas um there was plenty going on in the background um but we were really a really Galino group when we talk about the culture we had a really great mentality excuse me when I talk about that mental it it's they we wanted to play for each other yeah we were really passionate about playing for each other um and it's still a factor in footy isn't it you look at penth at the moment you know I mean a classic example in contemporary football clearly there's such a great camaraderie there you get that that extra Factor but tell us yeah tell us a bit more about that and I think the basics that were just ingrained in us over 2007 and we worked hard near he was tough conditioning wise we were fit um we had a simple game plan and we just ripped in it was really really um you know I I've got a little bit of a say now that I've probably learned from that but the bigger the game the simpler of the message needs to be and I think that that's what helped us so much we had a really simple game people knew their roles and by the end of that 2008 we actually had we had so many injuries we you if you were fit you basically got a gy yeah right and it that was that wasn't just you know you took that for granted you stepped up to the standard that was there already and we ripped in and it was such a it was a really special season for me because we've been through a few lean years but it's interesting the strength condition of the that was that part of that um I only chatted to him and he was doing um Shan Edwards and he was doing he's down there with the New Zealand um Team he was actually in New Zealand helping them this year won premierships at the rabbit o his favorite ever season in a part of any footy right was 2008 is that right because of the culture that we had you know it doesn't pan out the way that we all wanted it at the back end but you know when I walk away and I never got to win a Premiership at the club now that was my driving force day in day out I just wanted to win a Premiership but you know if you can walk away go on did we actually reach the potential that we had trained day in and day out for if we we know that we reached that you know you win a grand final but you could probably say we didn't play our potential we didn't win a Premiership but we walked away now we absolutely played the best we could yeah and so I leave content with that they're interesting years though like sort of so 2006 you you uh you know you you you you lock away the the number 13 position um 2007 and rightly so you become captain because of the work ethic and and much else the sort of leadership and then you get to 2008 did you feel that in terms of your development your personal development things I mean know and I'm thinking I I do believe I'm right in saying that in 2006 you established the alltime tackles record which depending on who you read is either 1,81 or 1,087 one or the other but either way it it dwarfs the next largest which is Nathan Nathan H Mar one of the favorite footballers of people who love football without a doubt but I mean you're you're that that many more did you did you feel that your own game was developed under the captaincy that moved not just as you know the one of the the great Defenders of the code but also in terms of aspects what you were offering the team and did that come to you know Assist some of the younger players of course and there were some seriously good younger players in that 2008 season yeah well I think um to get that to get that captaincy and it bring us to 2008 in there but um you know we' lost a heap of players 2007 you know we lost Wolford Deo kroer um um who Adam mul Clinton Costco um we lost we l it was huge amount um and youy from Clinton chos from Y and so we'd lost all of this all of this um you know leadership I suppose that we'd have these these huge amount of games Jason Smith you know all these players had moved on and so it was a bit of a baptism of fire um I was probably you know one of those guys that had only just got into you know run on position but um you know when you look at the other people that were about I was maybe in a fortunate position to be able to pick that up but I think those those years it had me primed i' I'd done my time and I just kept working working really really hard I had to cover a number of different positions so I really had to think hard about the game um in and around it and so that had set me up into that sort of position to get that and then I think the club we'd recruited like that too we'd got a lot of young guys or some people that wanted a bit of a chance to come and and so we were all there was a lot of guys that were hungry to prove themselves and that led to that ment it and that culture in in 2008 I think and um you know my my leadership style all the way through is more about just the actions and trying to lead by example there and when I needed to speak I suppose I I I spoke to the group but it was more about just leading by example and you know we we I think that that rubbed off on the players because we weren't a big talking team we just we just went out there and just buil a guys in defense and tried to throw the ball around and back ourselves in attack so in terms of of of the captaincy uh and indeed a young group uh the club was undergoing a sort of pretty much a SE change period was was one part of the way you approach the captaincy not just getting out there and and doing it by example which is always preeminent it must be said what's happening on the field but also in terms of looking around and trying to kind of uh uh enhance your own captaincy by looking at the way other people are captaining in the past in the present who were were there any any sort of former players or present players that you looked at then and and thought about what they were doing what they were doing right yeah no I think I think I've always been you know a pretty deep thinker in regards to you know way that a lot of players have gone about their footy so when I look back over my career and people that have influenced me certainly in that space I look at some of the teammates whether it was Clinton shoski who come before me and Simon Wolford and but even Mal as the coach and the way that he coached and he went about his things Ruben Wiki you know I love playing alongside Ruben he he's he never got the captaincy but he was one of the mo he was our spiritual leader and so I always you know took a lot um you know from Rubes and the way that he conducted himself um and so I look back you know a number of people that I think I've taken little Snippets of but I Pro probably when I look back at the way that I I was a captain I think the the greatest in influence the way that I did that as my mom and my dad right in what sense tell us more well Dad once again and Mom just they're the most extremely hardworking people they they don't carry on like they're entitled to anything and my mom's always had a mentality of serving before being served right and I think that that was just ingrained in me as a young kid and I saw her day in day out um and they'd be the last in the line to get something they would at the drop of that go and help the next door neighbor they would do whatever they could to help somebody else to make it a bit easier and I think that that was just ingrained in me and my brothers you know the way that we have to had to go about our life and that's how I wanted to be as a player and that's how I wanted to be as a captain and of course to pick that up as we've heard many times over and it's and it's still as as as valid As It Ever Was the harder you work the lucky you get in footy and there's no doubt about that you know that was I mean absolutely can I can we say a little bit more about that that fascinating season 2008 and I say that because and it's probably worth airing it a few of the people who wrote on that second half of the year one of them was Paul Kent and I'll get you to comment on I I'll I'll I'll I'll mention Paul Kent and then Maddie John's but Paul Kent in the telegraph wrote this in the second half of that year they the Raiders are the antidote for stale cookie cutter game plans that are in Vogue in the NRL today game plans where teams drive out dummy half uh uh one play after the other forever and ever until they finally grind their way the opposition is 20 M and polish off the set with a kick to the corner and if they don't score they get to do it all over again wonderful these game plans can bore the spots off grandar and awai the Raiders found a new Legion of fans with yesterdays and he was referring to and goodness I'd forgot about that penth Panthers 7412 my those were the days 7412 over the Panthers they are the Raiders are the best team to watch in the NRL and also I think I have to actually quote Matty Johns in his you know with his usual right humor suddenly Cam's footballers were answering more questions than its politicians not since the Glory Days of the early 90s had the Raiders enjoyed such attention they were the quiet nerdy little kid in the corner of the classroom that all of a sudden every girl wanted to kiss at the Disco um a classic and of course we do remember I mean that the set of score line we know only too well in that second half of the year and it really was brilliant to watch and it really was sort of out of the box so as you say throwing it around and doing things differently which raises the issue of getting to that semi-final and we know that of course we've had a great rivalry with konala over the years that was a surprising result and and and I'm sure people would be interested in that that the second half of the year had gone so well um was you know were there any reasons you're looking back on that result canala put 30 odd points wasn't it to about 10 what um you know what what were the reasons for that if you look back at it what did you think about that that game and that result yeah well we certainly went Inc confident because of that run that we had had so there there was no lack of confidence and there was no Cockiness about us whatsoever that wasn't a part of you know what what we were about all season and so um yeah and as it can be in footy and in those big games if you know you don't get off to that right start or things don't um get there and maybe there was some expectation and you know a bit more pressure we might have placed on ourselves in the season um gone but was the relative youth did that do you think come into it I think yeah and even for some of the more senior guys that were in there we probably hadn't played a huge amount of um you know finals footy either so I think it wasn't just from the younger guys but it just wasn't meant to be and it it was unfortunate that it went that way after the confidence that we'd sort of played with you know in particular in that back half of the year but we still went away knowing that we had lost the game but we were ready because we'd finished six we were hoping you know that there's still going to be a next week's game and you know what we're going to turn back up and we're going to rip back in and play this stle of footy we we um we knew we could play but but a big but tell the viewers when first comes eth Melbourne you playing Melbourne in Melbourne uh an almost unwinable game The Warriors go across there to do that and they upset mour and so the next um Place loser was us in the sixth position and we get bundled out in the first week was absolutely devastating yeah getting I mean it was getting certainly to be a ra of support of what it would have been like for the players but uh anyway it was a marvelous season and one can't help reflecting on the Del emo Awards of that year um I do quote Don ferer uh the Young in this and saying that you know we were always used to back through the previous decade being at the back of the room and suddenly we found ourselves on a front table uh and I do believe I know I'm right in saying that Neil Henry was the coach of the year uh but of course you got the lock uh the lock of the year as well you got the captain of the year uh personally and I know you can't divorce that from the way you know you would have taken a grand final every day of the week and then some but it must have been a very you when you've reflected on it or have reflected on it that must have been a very rewarding year because I'll just throw in into this and we'll come to that second perhaps and that is you didn't play the representative football that so many people and goodness knows I include myself such as it is that that that it looked you know you you should have played more representative football football at the very least coming off the bench in you know even I mean the Australian team but now now let's park that for a moment so the Delhi the Delhi M you get those two do you look back on that and was that uh like worthy consolation for the for the season that you got those two moments of considerable recognition yeah I think it was you know it was a real honor for my myself and I think it was great recognition for the club as well as as you've just spoke about we got a little bit closer to the front there too which is nice not down in the dark seats at the back but um as long as everyone behaved themselves I'm not certain they would go on it was um it was it was um but as you'd mentioned like I would have given it all back in a heartbeat to be able to you know get to the Grand Final and play and do all of that but it was it was good and what it really highlights to me is that you know we we had a team first a club first mentality so the coach coach tells us early on that he's he's moving um to go back to the Cowboys now we could have easily kick stones and moed and winged and carried on and been real self fish about it but no one's no one's bigger than the club and we ripped in and we we it motivated us I think and it actually made us work even harder to the point where the coach who is leaving gets actually the coach of the year yeah that that says a lot about absolutely and about the coaching staff absolutely the coaching staff and the coach let's tease that out a little bit the the the you know how did in terms of the way you hand that that news from from Neil you know early on and I remember being gutted as a as a you know passionate raer supporter that that should be named and for the very reason you said you know the goodness you know you can't blame the players if they're going to be kind of kicking Stones as you say but the the opposite ultimately happened was that a combined effort was it was it everyone pitching in the players certainly you start there the captain certainly uh also just just lining up with a a coaching staff that was determined you know what I mean a bit of magic started to happen but but did you have discussions with Neil about this especially early in the season yeah there was definitely discussions between the coaching staff and um and the leadership group that we'd had we started a leadership group in 2007 and so we we'd certainly had that conversation and I think a bit of the um the unspoken sort of message about that everybody could hear in the background but it was never officially said that b Neil was going to the Cowboys where he done he apprenticeship and so he had a really close connection there we all understood that but it was with a much better roster than we had at the Raiders here more of a chance to win a Premiership up there than with the group that we had and so we we chattered about that we had chattered about that nobody had officially said that Neil hadn't said that nobody had said that but it was this underlying message that people had heard and so we use that we use that not to to be bitter um or anything like that but it was it'll probably put a gave us a little bit of a freedom too yeah you know is is that okay this is this is what it is we're going to back ourselves and we're going to play for each other here um and we still played for Neil too don't worry about that it wasn't um that we we we played we ripped in but there was almost you know there was a little bit of pressure taking taken off I think in regards to to that um that we had that little a bit of a freedom now to just go and back ourselves and did you as Captain uh and when you're saying we and we talked about it did you make that a part in a sense of of the way you went about things to to use that through the season absolutely I remember being with our leadership group and the playing group as well without the coaching staff and having having this message and this mentality um that how we wanted to how we wanted to train and how we wanted to play yeah excellent so it was a I mean it was a big year um Football goes on um and and and day fer uh comes into the mix um what was that transition like for you and for the club yeah I mean it it's sort of a was a qu pretty quick little transition too when I think about it at the time there wasn't these huge negotiations and all these different coaches from a playing point of view anyway that I heard about it sort of it was pretty quick little transition um and I debuted with Dave ferer in the side um and so I'd had that connection um but it was it was a great little story too um coming back in um Don ferer senior and obviously Dawn at the club here as a CEO and Dave and you know one of our greats and such a hardworking done time and coached and different things like that but to be able to give him that privilege it was um it was a it was a pretty um big moment for our club and so um you know I resonated really well with Dave because he was extremely hardworking um I think you know being a his first coaching year he would have learned a hell of a lot like our firsttime coaches in the NRL do um and you know there was some tough times um but there was also some good times that he got to see as well is was was there people would be interested in this and you can look back on it um and that is in the years of of uh of Dave ferer as coach we know the the later part 2012 2013 was he was he unlucky and without getting I mean well was he unlucky in that he had to attempt to bring into the fold and to coach difficult younger talented footballers was that a part of the challenge that that that he was I mean well many coaches are not up to when they've got you know the on font the some of those younger players who are mightily difficult to to coach or or or to handle was that was that the biggest ISS sort of problem that that confronted him or not oh I think um I mean if you probably look across all NRL clubs there's obviously going to be varying but there's always going to be so I think that that is something in every Club but it's probably extremely hard for a new coach with um you know with the younger players and with some different challenges that might go on so I think that it was it probably was a challenge for him like um you know with some of the stuff that had gone on um but we had a talented there was enough talent in there to be able to get that out but obviously there's way more than just coaching footy to it so you're right I think I think Dave probably had some extra challenges that maybe a lot of other clubs might for their coaches at that point in time not to mention obviously the of the fact of of of of um of Don Jr do you know what I mean that it was you know it was it was making it very difficult sort of the the kinds of things that were easy for journalists to write but it it was hard so in terms of your playing career let's and let's bring into that because I certainly want to spend spend a bit of time on on life after footy uh that's involved in footy and we'll get to that shortly but you retired in 2011 if I'm not wrong um was the Prime reason that you felt the you know that your the football you were producing uh and indeed the physical toll on your body and and I'll I'll talk about well I will raise the prospect given that I know you were born in 1980 I believe I believe I'm 30 years and a day older than you uh so that's that's that they've held on to that but and given my age I can certainly remember a player called Dean Lance uh and there are a lot of similarities between Dean Lance and what he offered the Raiders club uh back in you know the late 80s early well ' 80s and early 90s and and and what you offered he it must be said had around him a pretty considerable uh sort of set of of of of of playing Talent right there but when you retired what were the reasons what were the reasons why you felt you should retire yeah well I had one year to go on my contract I still had 12 months um to go and I really had every intentions of playing that out and if I could I'd go again to be honest but I'd had probably three years I'd gone with a couple of had a shoulder reconstruction I think it was in 2003 um that kept me out of nearly the whole season I think I might have played three or four games in that year um but other than that I'd had some little niggles here and there but didn't really miss too much footy and then I nearly had three years of backto back niggles that I just kept playing through I busted a wrist really bad one year needed surgery on it said I'm just going to persist with it and get through to the back end of the year um I had groin troubles I kept playing with that FR go just waiting I'll get that surgery at the end of the year and then in 2011 uh four minutes into that round one game I'd finally got over a few niggles got through a good pre-season I get out of dummy half we're playing krala at home in round one I take the ball deep in the line I play at the back I pass the footy Ben Ross absolutely Nails me with my back turned right and I do a Grade Three AC right my AC sitting up about here right can't lift my arm doc says you're going to need surgery you're going to be out for about 20 OD weeks M and that was round one yeah he said you know what you could try and we could try and tape it down and needle it up and get through if you wanted to i' had these niggles and these niggles and I said well I'm going to try and get through it and so I just had about four weeks off trying to get the strength back into the arm and we just taped it down and we needled it up and just tried to play for the rest of the year with it and that moment probably was going geez I just can't take a trick here over these last few years and then it it you could just see that I'd probably lost a yard of speed and I wasn't a quick player I wasn't a quick player right throughout in my Prime and then I lost that yard of speed and then just I think it just started to take that toll and when you're just a little bit off I was a player that I'm not super talented right I needed to be at my best to be able to perform to the standards that I wanted and that the team needed from me and so when you're just off it it's not good enough and so I had to make that decision and as hard I'd been fighting for contracts right I've been fighting and fighting and I had one on the table that I could have and I had to hand it back it was so hard um to say look I'm going have to do it and it was it was putting the club first too it was it was somebody better to do the job than me I'm not surprised in the terms and we and we'll talk about you and the club in a little bit do are you one of those or were you one of those footballers who took um issues home your wife's Katie isn't it I've not met Katie but would you go home I mean did you go home and talk about that with mom and dad with Katie or we you know you kind of wrestle with it and say what you've decided yeah and so I chatted about it with my wife um um I didn't tell my mom and dad till late I could nearly when I told Mom and Dad over the phone I could nearly hear my mom crying from torth was mom like they love the ride being a part of it all and it was really you know um it was one of those moments actually that it was there going you know what there's been so it's been such a roller coaster Journey for me personally but actually the people that were a part of it and how how much they invested and were a part of this journey too and how much it meant to them was something that I probably didn't understand fully until actually I said you know what my time's up um to be able to do that but we definitely talked and I just didn't want to I wanted to to wait there and make sure that it was right and it wasn't just wrestling with me and you know here such a long time retired and as it kept getting closer I think once you've started to have those thoughts and you started to verbalize it with a few people around you I think the decision's been made and so it was really hard for me um and there was an offer to go to leads as well um at the back end and that it wasn't um if I was going to keep playing it was going to be in a Raiders jersey I wasn't playing for anybody else and so I was either going to take up you know do that last year of my contract yeah um or I was going it quits any uh I mean looking back on that and it sounds like no regrets because it was the right decision would that be is that is that fair or that you would look back on that now and say I you know if I had my time over that would be the best decision to make and that's the decision I did make yeah I I think I think it is there's there is still that little party would it have been good just to see could have you just got through that pre-season got your shoulder fixed and had a good season and then all of a sudden you're back to to where it is or you know do you go to Le and enjoy that and you know the game being a touch slower over there too is it something that you could have went and experienced but I feel deep down my gut tells me that I did make the right decision so let's just in case we don't get to it in the interview but you're saying about your mom and dad um how closely did they watch you know it sounds like they were sort of basically doting on your career in the very best sense did they come down you know go to many games how did that work for them yeah they they came to a few but I mean there's Fair distances eight hours drive so they didn't get to you want to have a good game that's what you say that's right AB um but uh yeah that was um yeah it was it was it was great you know what they they came down from my um uh for a couple of Milestone um birthdays and my pop as well right and they they came down to watch a game and they had family from Brisbane my my auntie B Uncle Steve Nat and Neil my cousins from up there they came down we have got another Auntie that's over in um Bo near Jun and they brought all their family across and they came across in 2000 so it's in in my debut year I came across to watch a game when we played the West tigers and it snowed they all come to watch that I was there I was there and so what an amazing what an amazing exp but yeah they they so they got to a few games here and there um but that was of course the Christmas card of the roaders that year you know that was I'll never forget it I think I've still got one actually but that was the most extraordinary so they've been part of you but very gave I love that yeah that's right so they um but you know they they got the the pay TV up home sort of thing which we never had as kids but we they got that and it would be a communal thing they could it' all come and watch the TV and growing up in a small community I grew up in place called lombra which is about 20 25 minutes out of Tam with a little farming Community only a church in a hall there but few local families come together and all watch the footy in the tongue household and go and watch the Raiders and um so they even though they probably didn't get to as many games yeah they they um certainly barried for it um from up that way well I got you know you were you're talking about making the right decision for the club and you're always going to do that um as uh I mentioned at the outset of the interview that when I was looking for the right title uh for the raadar history that I wrote a few years ago um was the case that I came across uh a discussion you'd had with Jared kroer uh and and and and indeed of course play you know playing in the earliest stages uh well middle stag of his career I can't I should remember middle stages but uh when he had the spiky hair etc etc uh as to string from the grizzled Allen tongue but him making the point uh about in terms of the way you played that you were always absolutely B leading green now it wasn't wholly original but in terms of the way in which it was applied to a player um uh it it fitted you uh better than anyone else that has ever actually pulled on the Jersey can we just spend a bit of time perhaps and we'll we'll pick up life after football you know when we go to uh another reel here but but in terms of your um the way in which you responded you've already spoken about when you joined the club and the reasons why you joined the club did the club finally give you what you were looking for and do you feel that it was a a two-way relationship in other words one part of it was the culture that was developing uh it's had its moments in not decline but it's off moments but certainly culture's always been crucial to the club but also the contribution that you made to that culture was that something during your playing career that you thought a bit about I remember doing my retirement speech I actually got Benny Polly come who's still here to give me a bit of a hand and we were writing up some things and I said in that retirement speech that rugby league doesn't owe me anything it's me that owes the game everything and I remember when I first got that footy when I was in and playing in the under Sixers um the love that I had for the game you know club didn't know me anything they they let me live out a child or dream um and so it to me it's just been such a um a wonderful place to be able to you know we have dreams as kids you know and some come true for some people and some don't and takes you on a different path but if you're a young kid in the bush that just kicks a foot around all day pretending to commentate himself in his little backyard the bird cage was my goalpost kicking over the top of that was Frank hard calling when you were youngster did you get the if it's long enough it's and high enough straight between the P so you know um and then for me to be able to do that and to to live that childhood dream out um rugby league's given me um everything and more um and that's why it brought me to the work that I do in community is to try and find a way to always to give back um and to you to understand that nobody's than the game nobody's bigger than the club it's about doing the best you can in your moment um but you never forget that and I think it helps you on the field um but 4ot is just this amazing vehicle it is just this amazing vehicle for to me it enriched my life but it can actually enrich so many others and we see that in our communities and I see it in my mom and dad right the way that it just brought so much joy to their life but I see it on a young kid face a boy or a girl that's looking from the stands when they watch suppliers run out I see it in a a Gala day I see it in a little come and try rugby league for the first time I see it when the players sign a autograph I see it when they go to a hospital visit I see it when they attend an education Workshop I see it in the Juvenile Justice Center I see it in the Alex mccon Center and I see the power of rugby league just going you know what there's something out there that I can jump into that I can learn from I can be better next week than I was last week so I mean it's just a joy to to hear those words but and I have the question talking about the kind of Your Love of the Game you know that you owe rugby league nothing at all because of what it's given you and indeed how much you're now giving back to that game um in recent years we've seen a change uh in the last 12 you know 18 months the idea um one might have called it a brain fart but it's a lot more than that now and that is to say some games being played in Las Vegas what do you think of let's take that initiative I mean we know rugby league's been talked about you know let's take it more internationally and we know that the islands the whole Pacifica element is really strengthening league in every direction speak to pen for example but it is happening that way what do you think of this this Las Vegas initiative yeah what one of the things is I our game our players are like Supreme athletes and I think we we often probably think of you know the NFL or these sort of as these unbelievable Supreme athletes whereas I really believe that when the world gets to set you'll actually see that rugby league players uh they're Ultimate Warriors they're super fit they're fast they're skillful they are highly tuned athletes and so we know that in Australia but I don't think the broader world knows that so it's a chance to do that but the game's also been through a period and just of late where I think they've got to make some business business decisions and it's about opening up new markets so I think the game has you know looked at it from a couple of different angles I I can't see you know the game being you know trying to take on the NFL or anything like that um you know we know that there are some local competitions um but the way that you can view it and watch it and capture that audience um you know you've got to see it to believe it to become it right and so I think that there there's chances for the game to able to do this and it's not about trying to take on and over take America and overtake the NFL it's not that's not what it's about um but about showing it to a new audience to be able to capture to be able to to be able to connect and we've got some of those the names like the Raiders you know those instant affiliations that you can connect with and those teams that that can can well as we know the rate the naming of our club when you you finally dig deepest it does appear to have been a top down decision calling in you know you'll be the Raiders you'll be the Steelers you'll be the Broncos bronos so it goes on yeah no for sure and so I think that um you know the games it's was put in a bit of a position and you know looked at the challenges and there was finances and there's different things and it sort of made a few changes and took a few risks and um it's willing to to have a shot at a couple of things like that you'd be I wasn't going to ask this question but I will it's the perfect segue and that is is is is the the rugby league authorities doing enough for Bush Foody we've talked about that you're obviously a a wonderful a classic product of bush Foody is enough happening in the bush and I say this against the background of the kind of pessimism pessimism is not the right word of of the sort of disappointment that a lot of country towns are going through losing you you know losing their football teams and you know I was lucky enough to play in group foot football in the in the South the group 13 where I played is gone you know group n's Under Pressure a lot of them are around the place is the League authorities doing enough for for for Bush footy in New South ws and Queensland oh look I I think um it is doing a hell of a lot of good I think if you were to look into it deeply and that's not my role um in the work that I do there would be always things that we could do better there would be certainly things that we could continue to do better but there it been I think there's also been a bit of a shift in mindset of a lot of young people now um is like I I would have if I didn't come to the Raiders I would have done anything I could and played as long as I could in the bush fo0 like I would have loved to have played first grade you know and just gone on and played that I don't think there is as much aspirations to to do that um like it was back in um back back probably in my time growing up in in country footy and so we got to bring that sort of that Community spirit and different things in some areas it's thriving in the little community that I grew up in how closest even though we were the peill valley Juniors it was a mixture of young country kids that all got to play um we back I think it was in the 1950s there was a Dungan um rugby league team um it went Belly Up and um stopped for a number of years and then all of a sudden it got rebooted again um just around the 2000 and now it is a biggest contributor to Junior Football in tenorth and it's on the outskirts it's all country and so you get the right environment you get the right people and you get the right and isn't it interesting how how often when one reads the good news stories these days it's usually because the football team has been resuscitated it's usually because of that the generate and and and and we read the same stories in with Australian Rules right around the country as well when they when they get something back so it's so I mean I think that's such an important thing for Peter valand ABDO and Company in rugby league to to have one very firm eye on that aspect of it to do it along with what they're doing let's change Tech entirely but but not quite and that is so you retire in 2011 you finally have looked back on it and and felt that you know it was the right decision at the right time and you'd probably make it again if uh you know in hindsight um you didn't waste any time uh and that goes to what people have been hearing in this interview that you wanted to get back to the game um were you clear on the kinds of things you wanted to do early or and that's question number one and question number two what did you do in those first years postretirement and we'll get to of course the last few years shortly yeah so there was when I finished up I went and got the surgery and and got got fixed up at a knee cleaned out I shoulder done I got a hamstring graft I pop that into me shoulder there to get the AC back in place and I had thought that I would stay involved in regards to I enjoyed the strength conditioning side of things and coaching my was something that had sort of yeah it had been something inside me that I thought I'd love to be able to do that the club had offered me um a position to be able to stay on and and help out um which I was really um you know grateful for but I think I needed to have a bit of a break for a couple of reasons one I'd seen players come straight out and go straight back into that and you've been best mates with them and now you're becoming a coach and that can be really tricky but also I'd seen that you know some of the coaches that I'd had some of the best things were actually having those experiences away from footy and that knowledge and those being able to connect with you more than just you know playing and talking about rugby league and so I really felt like having those experiences what I would do I'd be able to take those and it would make me a better Coach and so I said for 12 months I'm just going to say yes to any think and everything gets thrown my way the anrl had asked me to come on and do some ambassadorial work um I was doing some personal training stuff when I was doing some corporate work as well down here just doing some small little things but I didn't have a nine till five job I just kept it really open and I just said yes to anything and everything that um came my way and how I got involved in the community work in particular as I did some youth working certificates and diploma of small business i' had my mechanics degree behind me I'd started a PE degree at um university I just did i' started that I did a bridging course and got in the university and thought oh maybe that could be a path that I could continue down um but I got asked I attend a church over in B Conan and asked me to go in and share my testimony one Sunday at the Juvenile Justice Center and I went in there and there was about 25 oldd kids in the center at the time and two came to hear me speak I thought far out only been retired a couple of months these kids don't even they' forgotten already and I was walking out and one of the guys said to me he said man you got a pretty good story said you had have brought some footies in here you would had every one of these kids I said I'll come back I come back and I took some footies in and I started to share a bit of my story a bit of the stuff through footy a bit of the challenge of being picked up on the job that's what you were doing yeah no that's great and all of a sudden we created a program yeah right and that's when I saw the real power of sport in being able to change people's lives open doors you know in the best sense abut doors to lives you know that's that's exactly right and so one in the first one of the first workshops I did I actually came back into the club and um I asked if I could get some old jerseys and the club said yeah no worries D that'll be so I had all these old jerseys um that players the players have played in and I took it into this program and an 8-week program um called the Aspire program and I went in there and I laid out all the jerseys on the table I said fellas and there was a couple girls and said come up grab a Jersey it's yours whichever one you want they're coming up there and they're picking up oh man this number here this is Terry's number bang they putting how good this I said you know what that is my gift to you but guess what you've got to give it back to me after every session I'll take it home I'll wash it and I'll bring it back for you if you complete this 8 weeks you get keep the Jersey right cuz if you work hard in life you know what you get rewards at the back end yeah but if you don't finish it or you get in strife and you can't come along we you're not going to get the Jersey I never had one young person miss that in fact the one kid wanted there was getting released a bit earlier than the end he didn't want to leave because he wanted to finish that I said that's okay you can take the Jersey you can go um but it's amazing that power of sport once again to be able to to use it and that was quite early so we're talking the first couple after this 2012 yeah right right we did that and S out of that out of doing some work for the NRL um doing some of this Juvenile Justice word from there got spread to a high school asking you can do it in the high school so I took the program into a high school one high school led to 14 high schools I was doing the workshops in um doing one day a week with the NRL became two became three became four and just kept growing and growing and NRL asked about some of the workshops that I was doing in there could you create some stuff for us and so we started in the Juvenile Justice Center in camera designning sessions in my little garage at the back at a home to now some of those programs are done in papini Fiji Tonga s across Australia and are they so let's move from then then to now what's the relationship What What In in terms of the the the um uh what you're doing right now in 2023 what are the um the the programs that have endured to to and clearly they are what are the ones is it mainly that that sort of there's still that ambassadors is the ambassador's job with the tell us a bit about the present and what you're doing right now yeah so my role at the NRL is in a community and participation and it's actually in charge of innovation so the programs that get created and get delivered um in the community from our community and participation team um it's my role to actually create the content and the resources that get trained up with our staff to go out and deliver and so um to to just on that because people would be curious and I certainly am concentrating on um uh life after football concentrate you know where are the areas of concentration so the programs that I'm get connected with are around um young people in particular and it's not about the NRL playing whatsoever right um it's about local clubs it's about local communities it's about young people that have never played the game and may never play the game but it's actually using the values of sport to enrich people's lives um we have primary school programs we have high school programs we've got Grassroots footy Club programs and they're all around education and inspiring people to be the best they can be it can be around a social issue or if it's domestic violence it could be around mental health uh social cohesion um but we use all the all the language that we would use in rugby league and we use that to connect that with the message to the young people did I read somewhere and I that that that you had connected in some way to mat Elliot the work that he was he was doing have I have I got that wrong wasn't he doing something similar going back a few years yeah well he he's got a program and don't quite me on this but I think it's the change room is it or something I think it's called sound but it is a similar in in a roundabout way but but you're not in anyway working closely another yeah just interested um yeah and so it's been been really great it started out as just some Community work and making things up as I go just but and is that pretty much well it sounds like it's more than full-time but is that the work you're doing now which it's got its very strands under that umbrella as it were of innovation so it's it's you know probably about 30 or 40% of my work is actually creating programs and the other you know 30 40% is actually delivering programs as well and then I'm that utility Off the Bench for the other 10 15% um doing different things in the area it could be presenting at a Partners conference it could be you know creating some content or going somewhere else or training up staff in other other different areas or um helping out wherever I'm needed so all of the things that were ingrained in me of those early years of the Raiders are exactly what I'm doing in the workplace now do you or sort of Slash the interal employe PE stuff for what you're doing under you as it work yeah yeah so we yeah I mean not so much under me that I just train up a lot of the stuff in our communic right right go out and see how they rolling yeah and so but yeah this um the resource that we've just finished creating now um we with the current numbers that we do um it'll probably see around 100,000 young people over the next two years um and we'll train up about uh 200 staff uh with that resource to go out and so one of the key messages and another message that has come from my playing days is one of the workshops that we do all focuses around my six coach my under six coach which was Sam fogy from the pill Valley Juniors his message was you got to pass the footy the way you'd like to receive it fantastic and so that's a part of our respect resource you pass the Foy the way you'd like to receive it you treat others the way that you'd like to be treated and spoken to you want to get a good ball yeah and so we use all of these rugby league messages and this year's one is around being simply your best so it's not about being the best but it's about using your gifts and talents and just knowing that when you walk away you've given absolutely your best that's all anybody can ask you and you were saying in terms of the kind of the you know the the broad net that we're talking about do you uh presumably some you would go back to others you'd feel they're pretty much working independently now would that be right you know sort of thing that once they've got their own feet on the ground and you can see that it's operating well then you've done your work yeah that's right I'm just the coach just trying to give them a game plan okay and uh let them run with it they can make it they do their little tweaks and they bring their unique gifts and abilities um but I just try and give them a a a program or a framework to work to um that they've got there but really trying to empower them to just yeah do their best with you know they've all got you little unique talents and abilities and you got to bring that and put that on display so that's how I try and run it well I can only hope that a lot of the present Raiders are going to be looking at this interview at some stage in the next few years especially when they're getting towards the end of their careers to imagine the kind of thing that they could do because that's as we know that's that continues to be an issue for rugby league and indeed other sports and that's life after you've been something of a high you know high-profile uh uh Sports person uh that that it's difficult and it's been great to you know just of the last two months just being able to come back to the Raiders to work in the leadership culture space which has been fantastic I've spoken at a couple of our retired player functions um over the last couple of years and one of the big things that I've always tried to encourage um the players is understanding that rug everything that you learn in rugby league they're all transferable skills everything that made you successful on the field is going to help you be successful in whatever career you want in fact it's going to help you to be one of the best in whatever field you choose because you've been in a high performing team some for only one some for 10 some for 15 whatever you're lucky enough to have but your every move has been recorded has been reviewed you've been critiqued on every little thing you know in my workplace I get you know quarterly you know check-ins sure you've got it every effort you do you know so you're actually got this mindset of absolute excellence in everything that you do if you if you take that mindset and you continue it in your workplace you're going to smash it out of the park you've got all the skills that you need to be successful in whatever field you want if you take that same mentality does that I'm curious on this one uh does your work uh take you to various other I mean or how often perhaps I should be asking to other clubs besides the Raiders yeah I mean more so in regards to our education our rookie camps and different about 2019 end of 2018 2019 um the domestic violence program that I was running um we were doing we were on our trip to do every NRL Club um but then Co hit us so that slowed us is that program continuing today no oh sorry the program is yes but we didn't get to do all of the but yeah no it's still running it's full toam okay well um I suppose you know beginning to wind up a little bit um in the first instance uh and I do want to return to culture and say a little bit more about about club culture in terms of this business of culture and history um is there more in which the two can be connected do you feel uh you know it's interesting and I've I've got to put it in there I think and in fact I've been having some uh communication with graham anle at at NRL headquarters about this very issue because the NRL is not doing a lot with its own history uh you only have to go there uh to have a look and it's something that that that that doesn't worry me but it really it sort of it inspires me to keep going through the kinds of things that one hears from individuals like yourself where culture and history not just Collide but sort of work off one another is there something more that that the Raider Club you feel could be doing and I to to give one instance and I have to say it Maran ferer I interviewed recently with with son Don and we were talking about it I wasn't aware of this nor was Don as it turned out that his mother had been keeping scrapbooks since she met Don ferer senior in tumber rumber in 1960 so that she's got this scrupulous set of scrapbooks from 1960 in rugby league through 1982 up to 2023 I just say this because I'd love to get motivate you know not motivated but individuals like yourself who are doing such great work in the sphere of culture and indeed broadening the game for its Best Value in the community to understand that in fact you can learn from the past and I say that because I want to put you on notice uh right at the end of the interview uh I'm not expecting you can find that particular poster uh to be able to actually present that to the club but it's worth um uh raising the issue of you being one of the not just stalwarts of the club but someone who epitomizes as and I remember that well and I mentioned him earlier Dean Lance did earlier in a period of stars he was never seen as a star as such and yet he was absolutely vital to the fabric not only on the field but into in fact in life after which is precisely what you're doing I want you to have a think about that um and indeed in the future and maybe you know is it possible in Winding up the interview to comment on the connection between history and culture and what it offer the code as well as this club well I think I think they certainly go hand inand and you can see that I think the culture has certainly got better at our club once we brought back the Forever Green and we've started to really think about the old boys day and so one thing that when I think about growing up in the bush and the culture that I was a part of as a young kid is that um you never wanted to shame your mom and dad's family name that was that was one of the things like you you wanted to make sure that you represented your family name really importantly and so I don't think that's any different to being at a club you know who's come before you and throughout my time we we had a little saying that you always leave the jersey in a better place that's your role as a player when you come to this club is that there's been people that have play before you got to remember who has worn this jersey the sacrifices that were made for people that have done you've got this jersey now and you got to rip in and you got to make them proud but when you leave you got to make sure that whoever comes after us it's in left in a better place and so history and culture I think go hand in hand knowing who's come before you owning your time but making sure it's set up um better for those coming after us I don't think I could end on a on a better place for this interview Ellen Tong thanks so much for your time pleasure my pleasure chamber Raiders respect and honor the traditional custodians of the land and pay our respects to their Elders past present and future we acknowledge the stories traditions and living cultures of Aboriginal and torist straight Islander peoples on the land we meet Gava [Music] this project was supported with funding made available by the ACT government under the ACT Heritage grants program