>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY,
WELCOME BACK! TO THE LIVE "LATE SHOW"
MY GUEST TONIGHT IS AN AUTHOR, THE ANCHOR OF "THE DAILY REPORT
WITH JOHN DICKERSON," AND WAS JUST RECENTLY NAMED
CO-ANCHOR OF "CBS EVENING NEWS." PLEASE WELCOME BACK
TO "THE LATE SHOW," MR. JOHN DICKERSON.
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE] ♪ ♪
OKAY. WE LOVE TALKING TO JOHN
DICKERSON HERE AT "THE LATE SHOW."
YOU LAY THINGS OUT BEAUTIFULLY. HE PUT THINGS IN HISTORICAL
CONTEXT. YOU HAVE SAID YOU BELIEVE
CAMPAIGN COVERAGE SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THE DEMANDS OF THE
PRESIDENCY AND WHETHER CANDIDATES HAVE WHAT IT TAKES,
LIKE A JOB INTERVIEW, WHAT DID TONIGHT'S DEBATE ADD TO WHAT WE
KNOW ABOUT THE 2024 ELECTION? >> John: WELL, WE'RE GOING TO
TALK ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED ON THE DEBATE, BUT ON
THIS QUESTION WHAT DID WE LEARN ABOUT HOW THEY VIEW AND SEE THE
PRESIDENCY? WE LEARNED DONALD TRUMP SEES THE
PRESIDENCY AS A THING WHERE HE CAN SNAP HIS FINGERS AND MAKE
THINGS AND MAKE TRADE WAR'S WON. >> Stephen: BEFORE I'M EVEN
PRESIDENT. >> John: EXACTLY.
THAT'S UNREALISTIC. YOU CAN'T SNAP YOUR FINGERS AND
HAVE THINGS HAPPEN. EVERYONE LEARNS THIS IN THE
PRESIDENCY THAT IT'S GOING TO BE THIS DRIVE OF EXTRA ORDINARY
POWER AND THEY END UP FRUSTRATED.
>> Stephen: JUST WANT THE JOB YOU HAVE TO FEEL LIKE I'M THE
ONLY ONE WHO CAN DO THE JOB. >> John: YOU LEARN RIGHT AWAY
THAT IT'S A CREDIBLY FRUSTRATED BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T SOME REALMS
A LOT OF POWER. FOREIGN POLICY, YOU DO BUT IN
DOMESTIC POLICY, YOU DON'T. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO CONGRESS.
ALL PRESIDENTS GO THROUGH THIS. WE LEARNED HE STILL PROMOTES
THAT FICTION ABOUT THE PRESIDENCY.
WHEN I THINK WAS MOST HONESTLY, THIS GOES TO WHAT KAMALA HARRIS
WAS TRYING TO DO WAS DONALD TRUMP WAS THE FULL
DONALD TRUMP AND HE GOT EMOTIONAL AT TIMES.
HE WENT AND TALKED ABOUT CATS BEING EATEN, WHICH WAS VERY
DIFFICULT TO FOLLOW. >> Stephen: WE ARE GOING TO
DIG INTO THAT, JOHN. >> John: DEBATES ARE
PERFORMATIVE. THERE'S THEATER.
THAT THEY ARE, HOW YOU BEHAVE UNDER PRESSURE?
AND HE, THAT'S WHAT THE PRESIDENCY IS ABOUT.
AND HE HAD SOME MOMENTS WHERE HE WAS KIND OF ALL OVER THE PLACE
UNDER THE PRESSURE OF THE DEBATE.
>> Stephen: SHE HAD HER OWN PERFORMATIVE MOMENTS.
SHE HAD DONE HER HOMEWORK AND TRAIN A LOT.
POLLS SHOW 20% OF AMERICANS WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT
KAMALA HARRIS. GOING INTO THIS DEBATE.
WHAT YOU THINK THEY LEARNED? >> John: TO YOUR PREPARATION
POINT, WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE VOTERS WILL PICK UP ON THIS BUT
IT IS CLEAR THAT SHE HAD A PLAN AND SHE EXECUTED THE PLAN.
THE PLAN WAS TO MAKE DONALD TRUMP LOOK LIKE THE FULL
DONALD TRUMP. SHE BAITED HIM RELENTLESSLY AND
HE WAS INCAPABLE OF NOT TAKING THE BAIT.
>> Stephen: WHICH IS SURPRISING.
NOT THAT HE HAS CONTROL OVER HIMSELF.
BUT AS YOU'VE SAID BEFORE, THAT'S USUALLY --
>> John: HIS JOB. HE'S THE ONE THEN WE'VE TALKED
ABOUT THIS BEFORE, HE'S VERY GOOD AT THROWING OUT BAIT AND
EVERYBODY TAKES THE BAIT AND HE IS A BENEFITING FROM THAT.
IN THIS CASE, SHE WAS USING HIS STRATEGY AGAINST HIM AND I THINK
IT HAD TWO POSSIBLE DOWNSIDES FOR HIM.
ONE IS I THINK HER ARGUMENT WAS WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK.
YOU CAN SAY THAT. BUT AS A POLITICAL STRATEGY IT'S
BETTER IF YOU CAN CREATE THE CONDITIONS AND THEN POINT TO IT
AND SAY WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK.
CREATE THAT KIND OF INTEMPERATE RESPONSE.
THE SECOND THING IS, WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT CROWD SIZES AND
EATING CATS, HE WASN'T TALKING ABOUT WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO FOR
REGULAR PEOPLE. I WENT AND LOOKED AT THE
TRANSCRIPT AGAIN AND THE ONLY POLICIES HE REALLY TALKED ABOUT
FOR REGULAR PEOPLE WERE TARIFFS AND DEPORTING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
WHICH ISN'T REALLY WHAT PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT AT THEIR
KITCHEN TABLE IN TERMS OF HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT THEIR
LIVES. >> Stephen: THE VICE PRESIDENT
FACED QUESTIONS ABOUT BIDEN POLICIES.
SHE OWNS THAT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.
THE VICE PRESIDENT DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF POWER BUT SHE'S PART OF
THAT IN ADMINISTRATION. SHE WAS QUESTIONED ABOUT THE
ECONOMY, AFGHANISTAN, IMMIGRATION.
HOW DID SHE DO IN TERMS OF PUTTING THE NEEDLE OF HAVING TO
BE YOUR OWN PERSON BUT NOT THROWING HER OLD BOSS OR HER
CURRENT BOSS UNDER THE BUS? >> John: BY AVOIDING EVER
TRYING. YOU CAN'T BE A VICE PRESIDENT
UNDER A PRESIDENCY "I DON'T KNOW" AND PUSH AWAY FROM HIM.
YOU CAN'T DO IT. SHE DIDN'T MUCH TO DO THAT.
THAT WAS PROBABLY THE SMARTEST THING.
>> Stephen: FROM KIND OF THROUGH J.D. VANCE UNDER THE
BUS. >> John: ASKED ABOUT WHETHER
HE WOULD VETO A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN.
HE HAD MANY POSITIONS ON ABORTION BUT EVEN IN THE COURSE
OF THE DEBATE HE WAS ON THE ONE HAND SAYING IT'S A STATE ISSUE
AND SO I'M NOT -- LEAVE IT TO THE STATES BUT WHEN
HE WAS ASKED IF HE WOULD VETO ANY NATIONAL ABORTION BAN, WHICH
IF HE WAS BEING CONSISTENT WITH WHAT HE JUST HAD BEFORE, HE WAS
A COURSE I WOULD VETO A NATIONAL ABORTION BAN BECAUSE IT
SHOULDN'T BE A NATIONAL ISSUE. BUT HE WOULDN'T SAY HE WOULD NOT
ABORTION BAN AND HE SAID IT'S OKAY IF J.D. VANCE HAS SAID THAT
BUT THAT'S NOT -- >> Stephen: "WE DON'T TALK A
LOT." THE FACT THAT HE DOESN'T TALK TO
J.D. VANCE A LOT MAKES THEM VERY RELATABLE.
[LAUGHTER] YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY A WORD,
JOHN DICKERSON. >> John: THANK YOU.
>> Stephen: DO KAMALA HARRIS --
SOME OF SAID IT'S LIKE A STAND-IN, STANDING UP TRUMPETS
LIKE A STAND-IN FOR STANDING UP TO OTHER FOREIGN LEADERS OR LIKE
THE PEOPLE THAT TRUMP LIKES, LIKE THE PUTIN, YOUR ORBANS.
DID SHE COME ACROSS AS STRONG? >> John: YOU HAVE TO SEE.
SHOULD STEP BACK AND REMIND THE CONTEXT.
USUALLY ONLY HAVE DEBATES WE KNOW THE CANDIDATES SO WELL,
IT'S IN OCTOBER. EVERYBODY KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT
THESE CANDIDATES. KAMALA HARRIS IS NOT KNOWN BY
EVERYONE SO THAT'S WHAT MAKES THIS DEBATE DIFFERENT AND ALSO
MAKES A POTENTIALLY DIFFERENT FROM PREVIOUS DEBATES AND THAT
THERE MIGHT BE SOME MOVEMENT IN THE POLLS.
LEAVING ASIDE THE JOE BIDEN DEBATE, THAT WAS A SPECIAL ONE
OFF. >> Stephen: SPECIAL IS A
LOVELY WORD, THANK YOU. >> John: SO SHE WAS RELENTLESS
IN HER PROSECUTION OF DONALD TRUMP.
SHE DID NOT RELENT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE DEBATE FOR WHAT I
THINK WAS A STRATEGY, TO RATTLE HIM AND THEN SAY LOOK AT THIS
RATTLED PERSON. WE DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO
THAT. WE'LL SEE WHO THE VOTERS LIKED
IT OR NOT. WE WILL SEE WITH THE VOTERS
LIKED IT OR NOT. SHE DID HER HOMEWORK.
TO THE EXTENT THAT PART OF BEING PRESIDENT IS KNOWING WHAT YOUR
TASK IS, DOING YOUR WORK REQUIRED TO ACHIEVE YOUR TASK
AND THEN UNDER PRESSURE PERFORMING YOUR TASK IS TO SET
IT OUT FOR YOU, THOSE ARE THINGS YOU WANT AND ANYBODY WHO'S
TRYING TO BE IN A JOB OR HAVE TO EXECUTE THINGS.
IN THAT RESPECT, YOU CAN DRAW A LINE IT SEEMS TO ME BETWEEN THE
BEHAVIOR IN THE DEBATE AND THE KINDS OF ATTRIBUTES AND
BEHAVIORS THEY WANT IN A PRESIDENT.
>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK BUT DON'T GO
ANYWHERE. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH MORE
JOHN DICKERSON LIFE FOLLOWING TONIGHT'S PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE.