The Pistons Pulse: Offseason Prognostications w/Laz Jackson

[Music] [Applause] hello and welcome to your goto Detroit Pistons podcast the Pistons pulse co-hosted by me Bryce Simon of motor Hoops a former D1 Hooper and current teacher husband and father of three amazing kids nari Sano for the second Pistons beat writer for the Detroit Free Press and of course we're blessed to always be joined by our producer West Davenport and today we are joined by probably our favorite guest not even probably LZ you are our favorite guest I I just like we like Keith Smith and some other people too is definitely above me on the power rankings no no no no like we got we got we got to keep the love going but L look look at the chat already man people just l l explanation points man the people are here for you I think me and Amari could just leave and let you cook here for the next 60 minutes and people will be Happ please don't LZ Jackson is here with us Amari and I always love when he is able to join us we are talking full Pistons off season the new hiring the firing the draft free agency all of this we'll get to as much as we can if you guys have comments questions you know just put them in the the chat we'll I'm sure L would love to answer them as well as always please rate review subscribe like thumbs up what whatever you got to do wherever you're listening we appreciate it lass how's life how you doing I'm doing good I'm doing good I'm I'm happy to be here I appreciate the extremely warm welcome it's great to see you guys um this offseason has been like fast but slow and so I'm and it's going it's only going to pick up pace and so I'm excited about that uh the finals have been a a little bit disappointing but other than that like things are good so I'm really happy to be here and talk about the Pistons with you too real quick here we got a message from Copenhagen I will not try to say your name because I will butcher so I apologize but yeah there you go this is why we have LA on uh they say first time live after a year we appreciate it very much thanks for joining us LZ who's your like I don't want to ask who your pick is for the finals because I'm sure like everybody how many games is it gonna go yeah wait how many games is what gonna go the finals the finals oh oh I originally picked Dallas before I kind of want to stick with that but man uh they absolutely needed to win that game last night right that was the that they turned the ball over too much and they missed too many free throws but Boston's whole thing is getting up like 40 503s and if they only make 10 you have to win that game yeah and they didn't so now it's looking like a six game series like at best which is a little disappointing but I was was hoping for like the big epic seven game series between you know Boston's made the finals and Dallas hasn't made the finals but like again like two two new teams to the championship like our stage and it kind of looks like we're not as gonna get that as much but that's okay the offseason debate now is going to be are we back in like the big three era like can you not just get it done with two guys like I feel like the NBA like cyclical and we kind of got away from the big three thing the every team having like Elite Duos and now we're right back it's going to be well how how does Dallas get their christops right and we're going to see I wonder if we're going to see like this arms race again which I don't think you can with the new cap anyway but like I just wonder how this will affect things going forward because Boston is just so strong at at top it's just crazy yeah your your old colleague John Hollinger had a really nice piece at this at the athletic about you know I think this will be what six different champions in the last six years and how Boston is really set up well for Success because of because of the Drew extension because they have Al Horford like a relatively low number because uh like the Jays are going to be paid a lot but like they manag to trade for all of their guys instead of like signing them as free agents and so like they have bird rights and they can keep these guys in place um and so if if Boston can keep everything together with the second apron and like not being able to trade guys or acquire other free agents or your draft pick going to be locked or whatever like if if they can make it through that like they'll have a really quality Squad it'll be in on the rest of the teams in the NBA to catch up to them well and at the end of the day they've been to three straight Eastern Conference Finals they've been to the NBA finals two out of three years and if they finish this one off with a win you know like that's that's a decent threeyear stretch run and you can say now they've gotten over the hump they've went through the hard times the experiences they know who they are y y y but let's talk some Detroit Pistons let talk other end of the spectrum end of the the exact opposite end of exact opposite end um okay we do have some news we don't have new news but we have news since the last time we talked with you let's just start with the beginning of this President of basketball operations things LZ what was your thoughts on announcing the position how they handled it how long it took other people other names that maybe you would have been excited about you know like do you think they should have tried to wait out Tim Connelly or G you know and we'll talk about trasan and Troy and that stuff in a second just what were your overall thoughts on the process and the idea behind this position I thought trun was a very solid hire I know the search it felt like it took a long time but I would rather have it take a long time and feel comfortable with the result than have it be a rushed process and it end up with somebody that I wasn't in favor with um like there were there were reports about certain candidates that I was like not very excited about and langon was not one of those guys I was excited about the hire um I feel similarly about the way that trun is handling the search for new GM and the way that the old GM was uh was let go it's like again like it's taking longer than I would like like I that's maybe just like a little bit of impatience on my part but if it ends with the result that like I think is ideal for moving forward with the team it's like it's fine you know the draft hasn't happened yet free agency hasn't happened yet like all these things will happen or things will be in place before like the offseason really gets moving for the Pistons I think and so like that is ultimately what matters not that like you know um I need to get these tweets off right like that that doesn't matter as much that's the funny thing about this this time well not really this time of year but this part of the process where the Pistons just hire a new decision maker and somebody who has never been in the seat before so you can only glean so much about their process but already like there somebody in my Twitter uh in my Twitter mentions today he was like I'm already disappointed with the job try just done because he hasn't done this yet and I was like it's been like like has it been 10 days since he got what was he supposed to do because he hasn't fired money yet like like like that's like that's what he was saying he was like like I can't believe this hasn't happened like he's already got like an f grade from me and like like I guess how do you get like a gut feeling on you know these types of things where you may not necessarily know like what do you kind of look for in a higher and specifically for the Pistons what D you want to see in the person that they brought in that could make you feel good about what they could do I wanted to see somebody who I felt like was a good tal Talent evaluator but also like not just College Pro as well um my ideal candidate like would have been somebody who has already built a team from the bottom where the Pistons currently are like into something that's why I was thinking about uh like you guys mentioned Tim Connelly like I always thought that was a little unrealistic I thought yeah yes the ownership situation in Minnesota is very chaotic like yes we are getting a lot of wild reporting out of Minnesota but that team is really well set up for the future and if you have already built this and you believe in it you kind of want to see it through and so I thought that that would always kind of be the case but like I looked at like Brooklyn with Shawn Mars and like they seem really stuck right and that's a GM who and that and that's a person who has built a team through a lot of different es and flows right like they had the they had the really fun like eighth seed Nets with like Spencer deny and D'Angelo Russell they flipped that into the big three or just the big two at first with Kyrie and KD and then you like you know KD's unhappy they add James Harden like he's been a guy who's been willing to change course and like when KD's mad like you trade him to Phoenix right they they've been able to do a lot of different uh Team Building ways and I thought that flexibility would be important um Tran like for his part the thing that made me uh feel good about him was the report that uh like he was handling most of the Personnel decisions in New Orleans um again like David Griffin is a name people know who David Griffin is but without that kind of insight it's impossible to say like who is really responsible for these decisions and it sounds like Tren had a very heavy hand in a lot of things and I like what New Orleans has done um even if they haven't had the level of success in the playoffs that you would like like to think about for a team but that hasn't always been there fault like Zion's been injured a lot and like even like this past season he looked great in the playin tournament and then that didn't end up the case um so I I was looking for someone who I thought could build sustained success and it looks like Tran and Tran kind of did that in New Orleans and so I feel confident that he'll be able to do that in Detroit what have your thoughts been in terms of everything since then like I even go back to why not just F what what are your thoughts on this why not just fire Troy Weaver as GM and hire Tran as GM like what what are your thoughts on this overall okay we're going to hire a president of basketball operations we're going to hire a Tran then we're GNA say okay this guy gets to decide whether Troy Weaver keeps his job if Monty Williams keeps his job and then do you think they're GNA bring in a new GM or do you think they just absolve that into Tran's position like where what are your thoughts on just the process in general of how this has all gone down so I think my my thing has been if I were Tom Gores I would look at the way that the coaching search for money was handled and say to myself like all right I'm if I need to stop meddling like I need to get out of this decision-making process we have a lot of reporting about the the way that that coaching search went candidates were presented to him he didn't like them uh he didn't trust his decisionmakers to make a good decision and he ended up with something he's unhappy with right so at this point it's like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna make one decision I'm gonna hire a guy one person and that I'm gonna let that person handle their decisions right I'm notna I was like I'm going to take a step back and I'm not going to interfere as much and so uh like I understand that I kind of respect it actually because like you know it is it is a ready-made excuse like if for for Troy like hey like you didn't let me hire my coach it's like that's that's why this ended up like this and it's like that's not really what happened but like I but it but I understand how you can make that argument right and so that that's what I think is happening with the delays and with the uh more hands-off approach from no doubt uh just a couple confirmations here and I actually just got the story up on fre before we started but I'm just confirming they added Michael Blackstone and I think that was pretty obvious just because it was in his Twitter profile so you know so we do have a g is his title GM or title's like Vice pres Executive Vice President but he's the GM it's the same BR okay so yeah since we're not gonna cons consider somebody a GM anymore it'll be Michael blackone will be Executive Vice President yeah yeah and then also with that uh the Yahoo report last week that they're they hired Brooklyn Net player personal J.R hoden um like confirming that as well and he is his title is vice executive I don't know exactly what the role is yet but they scouting more or less you know I would assume it's probably G to be on that side um it's pretty cool that he was like starring alongside trasan over in Russia when they won those championships they were both on the he was also in Detroit like under Scout I remember correctly yeah Scout yeah he was a scout here I'm not sure what year he was a scout here but he was a scout here in in Philadelphia before he landed with Brooklyn so we're we're we're starting to get this team uh kind of stoy together um we kind of touched on it earlier but obviously there's this Monty decision Lumi I get if you want to go ahead and just Dive Right into this this this topic for us here L just where are you with that on like should you bring them back it's only been a year this and that or just where's your good at so far so if if I were trun I would want a new coach I would want full alignment with my like new uh front office regime and that means no holdovers that's no like that's no shade to Monty um I think like I liked things he did last year I did not like things he did last year um but there's there's calls on both sides to fire him or or to retain him but the thing I will say is that it looks really clear that Monty is not um like a huge differen maker in terms of uh his coaching ability and but it doesn't really seem like there's a lot of differen makers out there we see a lot of coaches being cycled through what what were you gonna say Bryce I hear no like that's just my thing with it is like we just did this 12 months ago where we said Dwayne Casey is the worst he's not making this team better get rid of him we'll bring in somebody else and then now I see people going well Dwayne Casey could have been I was like no no no no we're not talking Dwayne Casey there was like one% of the Pistons fan base that wanted like was okay with Dwayne Casey continuing to coach this team so I'm like you like don't you think it just comes down to Tran's Vibe with Monty and does he see the same vision for this team yeah and you know uh Tran has experience with a lot of other coaches around the league like is and also has been a lot of places I know they've both been in New Orleans but not at the same time it's like it what kind of vibe does he get from Monty when they meet because I'm I'm sure they've met by now um it's like well and if that doesn't work like what are you looking for in a coach right and so like yeah I I I would probably let Monty go but I'm not expecting my next head coach to be a miracle worker and I do think that resetting the coaching Market the way they did with Monty put a lot of expectations on Monty to be a miracle worker in a way that he just like wasn't it happens I mean I I wonder if the difference in expectations because I think no matter who I know for me and like I got caught up in this as well and that's I stay out of a lot of the front office stuff like is like at the end of day do we know what decision Tran made and didn't or what bad decision maybe he could have made in New Orleans but somebody overruled him and I'm not saying that happened or any of these other guys like I just think even more than players we know less about coaches impact front office impact who's making the big decisions and those type of things and so I think for me I just I'm probably with you I just whatever Tran decides I think is the right decision if he feels comfortable with Monty great if he doesn't then let's go find a new coach I don't think it matters who they hire I will not have any expectations you know if it's JJ reck let's say they hire JJ we can't have expectations he's never coached before we have no clue if it's you know anybody else you know even if they went after Dan Hurley you know like all I know is that he's great in college I don't know what he's going to be in the NBA so for me it's just like I'm done having expectations about what coaches could do I know SPO can coach I know who else who are some other coaches that I like feel really confident like spo's always the one that comes to mind yeah Ty can coach offense Ty yeah yeah tyo um yeah it's like than that like I don't I don't know man I I don't know like I I didn't think Jason kid was a good head coach yes and his team is in the finals right like and and but here's here's part of that Sweeny is down there who used to be with Detroit there's times over on Game Theory where we like break down their defense we're like we love this this is amazing and then there's other times like what the heck is going on you know it's like even then and at the end of the day we don't know is it Sweeney's fault is it the players not executing it is it because Luca's hurt and doesn't move on defense like there's just so many factors that I I don't know that we that we really know so I don't know Amari for me I just I don't get into this front office coaching stuff as much as I used to I'm just like I have no idea let's get to the draft in free agency I can at least talk about those guys like with some semi intelligence and that's what's like it's just fun like I don't really BR Twitter a lot during the offseason really not even during the season either I've tried to reduce but you know like I still see things and I see you know people debating uh you know well is this person going to do this or that or whatever and it's like we're basing this off of like Vibes like it's literally just Vibes like maybe you had a dream last night that told you something was going to happen like that's that's all we're going off of at at this point but to L this point earlier you know you can look at somebody's body of work and at least see if there's a correlation with success and even before um New Orleans he had that run in Brooklyn where they got Den witty and they got uh I think Jared Allen they drafted him they brought in Joe Harris who was pretty much out of the league at that point and you know I wrote that story the other week but everybody sort of credited Tran for being deeply involved in that process he was also involved in the health side in in Brooklyn and in New Orleans which you know I know people think that the Pistons out the worst medical staff in the league so maybe he could clean every fan hates their team's medical staff that's just that's a part of Phantom Ultimate scapegoat ultim we know even less about that like yeah as Stephen Suggs like we we can at least see the coach like we can watch his demeanor on the sideline like I can try to guess at some things and I can see what he's trying to run on the court whether the player actually executed or not that's something completely different I literally know nothing about the training staff I don't know if they have them doing stuff from the 90s if I they stuff in the future we have no clue what the training staff is or is not doing like I I stay away from that one completely Amari yeah yeah because people will say well you know like this guy had this injury at this team but they got him right and it's like well it's not like a car like yeah you expect every you know 2015 every cruise to be exactly the same but like human body doesn't operate that way you know like some people like you may have a code and it's mild you may have a code and it knocks you out for two weeks like it affects everybody differ long story short it'll be fun to see over the next two weeks sort of what tw's process is right because you have the draft coming up and INF freny right after and that's a lot of information we're going to get in like two weeks I agree fire bandon's dog says I agree fire Lon I just that that one made me laugh that that that was good I I enjoy Joy when we can get on here and have some laughs and and with Laz well well played Brandon's dog I kind of want to know the the story behind that YouTube handle but um very funny right there Omari that was a that was a really well sourced and really well put together piece you had in the free I appreciate that thank you that was that was really well done I thought you were gonna give him credit for the joke he made a couple episodes ago where he almost made Keith Smith spit spit his water out that was so funny yeah I got my flowers for that I got my flowers for that but you deserve I appreciate the shout out for the story no Omari picked up the phone and got like a bunch of people whose names I know around the league to say nice things about the GM hire and I was like okay like they did they didn't have to say that but they did so I was like okay like let's see how this goes yeah all right Amari let's go to break when we come back let's talk NBA draft we've talked the front office we we'll get Monty Williams news down the road where we can dive into this stuff anymore but at the end of the day the NBA draft is two and a half weeks away the Pistons have a top five pick and we got to talk about some players so when we come back from this short break Amari will ask LZ about his top three favorite all right we are back with segment two and we're going to dive right into the draft which is just over two weeks away uh LZ I've I've gotten I've gotten glimpses of your of your overall draft thought process just from following you on Twitter but I'm curious to hear just more and de just what your Pistons Big Board is looking at like now you can include s and Reet there too like they probably won't be there but you never know so yeah no I so I was a participant in Bryce Simons Motor City Hoops uh big draft compilation board I I I encourage people to check that out I thought it was a good exercise to take SAR and Rish say off the board just because like SAR def I think SAR definitely won't be there and it looks the the further to the process it looks more like Rish is not going to be there either and so I was like okay like maybe those aren't one two but they're somewhere in the top four it's like okay like we can take those guys off the board safely um so with that said my number one was kingan was Donovan kingan from yugon uh I think the rim protection was a huge area of concern for me last season uh I've talked to you on this podcast about how much uh Jaylen 's regression as a rim protector kind of put me off him and his progression as a player um and so I I think taking the time to address that uh would be the best thing the Pistons could do in the short and in the long term um there and of course there's the there's the shooting upside with kingan I kind of see it uh I'm not expecting it to happen but it you know it's something you'd want to keep an eye on as far as his his development goes but uh one thing the combine really made clear to me is like that's a big dude right like that's a really large human uh in a way that durren is like very athletic but he's only the 610 right and those on an NBA court like every inch matters and so CL yeah kingan was my was my number one guy yeah we talked about kingan I actually had the pist T and kingan in my mock draft that went on uh Monday but I feel like the sale for kingan is like imagine Derek Lively if he had even better defensive instincts and also we're 50 pounds heavier and that's like you know like you essentially have a guy I mean you don't get the shooting like I don't think I those guys shoot but you pretty much have everything else you want to Big whether it's being able to roll you know play and drop come up to the perimeter a little bit but cling is a really good passer too and I think that's what really puts him over the the top you know is that you could just put Shooters around him and and Kade and I mean I feel like you're pretty much set at point guard and center for the next decade yeah well that's that's one thing I've talked to Bryce a little bit about is I have trouble picking apart kingan and castles passing in offensive Acuity with the system under Dan Hurley who was just coaching laps around these other NCAA coaches it's like is kingan a good passer or was he just in a really good offense right and i' I have trouble picking that apart I I think it is hard but my thing with a big because it's not like you're not you nobody's drafting kingan to be like joic or sabonis or shenon but I think we've seen him enough like he's really Nuance operating dribble handoff and those type of things I think he can just make the necessary passes dribble into a dho screen the guy off if he needs to or just hit the back door play if that's what's necessary I'm gonna do a Shameless plug here so in the comments I'm gonna get the link to my substack where I did that and you know reached out to over 40 people kingin was interesting because he finished second overall in this but he was first in the Pistons fans results which shocked me guys like it shocked me and I wonder if that speaks to Jaylen durren and where the fan base is with him and so I saw this question I hit the wrong one um but I think it said oh yeah would you actually trade Jaylen Duran if you made this pick last this is from Sharon Dalton they say my sentiments to LZ Trey Duran and P kingan I'm actually a little bit more open to playing these guys together not together but on the same team for a year because I don't think clean comes in and plays 30 minutes A Night in the same way Derrik Lively didn't play 30 tonight for Dallas and then decide what you need to do what are your thoughts on that yeah I don't think trading Duren is like an absolute prerequisite but I do think that in the long term you probably can't keep both of them right and so like maybe uh durren makes like huge strides in this off season and uh his value is up and that makes him easier to trade maybe kingan is a little best a little bit less uh agile laterally in uh at the NBA level and so he's not as good a rim protector as you imagined he would be and so you'll you'll need to move on from him then but I yeah I don't think you like absolutely have to uh trade Jaylen dur if you draft on kingan the thing I do think is that like if you trade or if you draft kingan and keep durren you can't spend $20 million on hartenstein or Nick Claxton this offseason right you don't need three centers you need two and Ste still around and ste's still around uh who's on your board after Clingan so my number two was Ron Holland okay and I I don't feel good about that but I think Ron Holland is the best mix of impact and upside that the Pistons that would probably like be available for the Pistons at five um as the season went on like he kind of figured it out a little bit for the ignite the structure of that team was atrocious at times um so I I do think in a more uh constructive coaching environment in a more um structured like NBA offense I think we see a little bit more of what he has to H offer offensively and then just like the the measurables the athleticism there's not a lot of six seven six8 guys who can move like he does um and there's even like defensive technique things that you can see that like once he learns like he'll be even more of an impact Defender um but I I I can I have my own like uh selft talk where it's like we're still putting non-shooters around Cade it's like I I I understand that like I hear that but like I think this is the Pistons best shot at getting a player who's like actually like something worth something like moving forward so where Bryce who was the the the Top Choice on on that Big Board uh who was it yeah oh you let's talk about Ron Holland before we go to the next guy so we will we will talk about the landslide victory for another player who may or may not space the floor at a decent rate here's what I'll say last you and I talked about this a little bit off air and the Pistons have $60 million in cap space all of this stuff there's two major problems with this team floor spacing and defense m and you you can draft somebody like Ron Holland or Steph Castle or somebody like that if you think they're the best player on the board and I'm with you I think Ron Holland listen there's a real chance he Flames out in his Hamad do Dio I get it I will readily admit it there's also like he's the guy that looks like a prototypical potential two-way NBA bucket getter and Defender and what you do if you think it needs to be Ron Holland or Steph Castle or Donovan kingan is is then you spend $64 million only acquiring floor spacing with that money like go get guys that can score the ball space the floor and figure it out from there like I don't other than ruchet I haven't found the dude who like makes sense for this roster that's going to make everybody happy and we've even seen in the comments last like people are like bringing up his athletic testing numbers which like I just don't care that much about because I would rather just go off the film but um I know for some people it matters and I don't to discount it but people don't people hate Reet because there's no upside but then you bring them Ron Holland and they don't like it because he can't shoot it's like you got to take one thing and then figure out some of the other stuff in free agency and building out the rest of the roster yeah I I definitely think it's easier to find um guys who can shoot 42% on catch and shoot looks to surround Cade than it is to find like six eight guys who can uh pass dribble and defend right okay Omari I know you want to talk about this guy so again just to reference back to the you know the poll that I did the overwhelming winner of this which shocked me I know LZ you said before we started recording it surprised you Amar you were not as surprised but Reed Shepard blew this away he was actually second with pistons fans but with draft Scouts and just general content creators he was first he had 17 first place votes out of 40 nobody else had more than eight uh Reed Shepard so Amari Reed Shepard and then LZ will get your thoughts on the Kentucky guard yeah so Reed being a favorite for uh Pistons fans I think he was the overall favorite you said Pistons fans were a little bit higher on Clan but or was it that oppos no no that's Pistons fans actually had cling in one by it it wasn't a lot but just a little bit but um but with Shephard it's just you look at you know he shot 50% from three in just the all- around efficiency I think he almost had like three combined Steals and blocks that being 61 uh LZ where is Reed Shepard on the board for you is he three or is he lower than that and then just sort of walk us through your your belief or non-belief in who he is as a prospect so he's four for me I had one guy above him um my thing is like I I did see he tested really well at the combine but we have seen guys with uh plus wingspans be able to cheat the vert in a way that like makes me uncomfortable I'm pretty sure he no like it's pretty commonly discussed that he cheated the vert that like his standing reach doesn't make sense based on the vertical number like all of that together he definitely cheated the vert number yeah but he's not a bad athlete like I want to make that clear like I don't think he's aad bad athlete but like I don't think he's going to win the dunk contest either which is like what you would think a guy with a 42 inch vert or whatever he was measured at like would would be able to do um but my my thing is like I like Reed Shepard a lot the margins for a 6-2 guard in the NBA are just razor small and even like I believe in him as a shooter I believe in him as a secondary guy you had uh Richard staman on last week and he was talking about how didn't think Reed was really a primary and I believe him and I agree with that again just because uh unless you're Jaylen Brunson it's really hard to be a primary at that height um but but as a offensive fit next to Cade it'd be seamless right and so I I and like I think there's upside there as well like I think as he becomes a little bit better of a ball handler um and gets to see the floor a little bit more um you could even see uh further development and he would be an even better player and then of course there's the caliper curse there's Cal all of Cal's guards always have a little something extra like when they make the league and like I don't know what it is like that's the Calipari blessing like curse has like a negative the curse and college because they never win anything okay that's true okay yeah I'll give you that I'll give you that yeah but it's like you I don't know what it is for him but like I'm sure there's something more that he got the he hasn't gotten the chance to do that he would excel at at the NBA level so I like Reed Shard a lot I just had him I had him four but like a very strong four if that makes sense I want to bring this up real quick so Elisha Israel says but we already have that role with Sasser here's one thing I think we have to consider guys they're gonna draft a what seems like a redundant player almost no matter what you have Cade as a primary guy you have Ivy as a combo guard whatever you want to call him you have a sar as this defensive athletic you know athlete and then you have durren at Center like the only position you can draft is a true three and D wing and like again if R say is off the board I don't see that dude yeah not there yeah I mean I I think that's why people like connect is even though he like I think connect actually makes the most sense if you if you feel like you have to play all of these guys together and I think that's what we I even do it LA but you talked about last time is it really a core four like does it really have to be like I don't know that it does so like it's okay if you draft a guy and he plays and a couple guys move to the bench or vice versa so yeah like I like casser but like drafting Reed Shepard to supplant Marcus cessar is totally fine like it's it's a poor allocation of resources on Troy Weaver's part but that's why he's not here right yeah well that's what somebody said earlier if shooting was so easy to find why haven't they found one in five years that's why Troy Weaver no longer has a job Steven sug says everybody's tradable except I agree but that this is kind of my point with this draft is we don't know who Tran likes and who he doesn't like what if he loves Jaden Ivy what if he hates Jaden Ivy maybe he doesn't think Jaylen Duran's ever gonna be a Defender we don't have the insight to that and what he thinks about those guys I do think drives the decision here now I want to go back like people bring up Matas are you guys sure Matas can shoot because like we hate dudes because they can't shoot I'm pretty sure Mata shot worse than Ron Holland from this last year in the ignite so like again there's this why this is a flat draft and people aren't excited about it yeah so and the top two prospects were a lot of people just being of course clinging and and Shephard too like if you're just taking BPA it's going to be overlap as you said not to catch you off ass yeah so know I I talk to people I don't talk to everybody but I talk to people I have talked to people who were at hoop Summit uh who talk to tr who talked to Tren and I've heard what he thinks of the ignite guys and it's not great so I I'll say that much right yeah no it's and that's that evaluation sucks like as somebody who is trying to do this for a living like not a living but you know what I mean like trying to do this in a very professional space I like I it sucks if trying to evaluate that stuff I'm very ready to be completely wrong on Ron Holland I'm ready to be too low on Matas buellis like I just have no like maybe Tyler Smith somebody brings up Tyler maybe he ends up being the best player and I I wanted to play Smith got great PR yeah oh yeah but here's the thing you know what his biggest weak he doesn't he's not a great defender so again like this is where which I'm fine okay let's bring in Dalton connect and just let him get Buckets right well then now you have to go out and you better find a good big man Defender yeah like so Michael says sasini says Maas can shoot I'm just going that because it makes me feel good listen at least he's honest yeah Michael I get it like I argue with Sam about Matas wi with this but yes I I will I will agree that Sam does think that Matas can shoot Amari let's let him give him his third one and then I want to ask about trading up and trading back so who was the third guy my my third guy was Castle just because um like philosophically I'm looking more for these athletic defensive guys and that's that's CN Holland over these uh mainly offense uh not as good defensive guys meaning Shepherd and connect so I connect five um for that's that's the full board which means Matas was off my board I don't love Matas i' remain Matas has to fix a lot of different things all at the same time and like to get all those Lego pieces in place like it makes me a little it makes me a little nervous but uh but yeah castle at Castle at three uh love the way he plays love the energy he brings um you could definitely like see him playing in these playoff series which which is um like a big thing uh the shot doesn't go in but it also doesn't look broken um so you hope that uh it doesn't look like busted in the way that like assar and almonds like did last year so you hope that there's um you know shooting improvements that can be made on that front and if he can shoot like he might be a star as well and so that's why I would have Castle three Castle do you see him as the best perimeter defender in this draft I know he's discussed as a those types of guys but is that like how much of the appeal is it just pan Kade with like this Elite defensive type I I think I think he might be the best like technique perimeter defender in the class yeah but like I I have Holland higher because Holland's two inches taller and like has got longer arms right like I think um you you can get I think you can get if you can get him to a level of technique that castle is currently at you have a better Defender um but yeah Castle is a really that is part that is a big part of the appeal of Castle is taking a lot of the defensive pressure off of Cade in a way that like Jaden ivy for example like did not do last season yeah I've I've warmed up to that because of what he would do on the defensive end and I think the way you said it is perfect I think Castle's a more quote unquote solid point of attack Defender where Ron Holland's a little more disruptive and is going to make plays Castle may just stay in front of guys better and you know like I say Michael brought up Sam Vini early Sam thinks that castle may have the highest upside in the class because if Castle shoots it then everything else like really clicks and you're talking about a real two-way player with what he can do on Jimmy Butler if yeah yeah and not like we've talked about like I don't think the the reports out there about the point guard stuff is really I think it's a little bit I don't know if I don't know if I talked to you guys about that but that was screamed like gamesmanship steering me like away from someplace I don't want yeah it but what makes me worried is that they were steering him away from Detroit like we you guys have Kade I want to be a point guard don't draft me you know but I think it's more like steering it's like please San Antonio take me take me as opposed to like I don't want to be in Houston and I think that's actually what Sam said as well it was more of like steer him towards teams as opposed to trying to keep him away from teams Amari if you don't have anything else on the guy I feel like we've kind of screwed over Dalton connect here but we've talked about him I I think we know he's an awesome fit offensively with some defensive concerns I want to talk about trade up trade back but go ahead Omari is connect fif on your on your board I'm just curious to see who number five is before yeah connect is number five on my Bo he's number five okay cool U I'm just goingon to plug our past episodes for connect discussion including last week we we had our guy Richard statman on we'll come back with segment three and then we'll Dive Right into free agency all right we're back with segment three we're going to get into free agency and And Trades uh I guess we could probably open you know trade up trade down uh those types of scenarios that's probably going to be the biggest debate coming in into this draft uh it's tough to really say what's best without KN what's on the the table but uh would you even look to move up in this draft or would it be more so let's move back and pick up some assets and return I think trading back and picking up assets to do it would immediately distinguish trun as a different type of GM front office op greater than Troy Weaver and I think that would be I would be really happy to see that um Troy Weaver consistently did not want to do the little things like building assets or you know like spending two-way slots on like guys that you actually think have chances to like be players in the NBA and and so like yeah if you if you trade back with Portland for like seven and 14 right you trade back with Chicago for 11 so they can move up and get Matas or whatever like I think that like yeah immediately establishing that like you know it's going to be a long-term thing and you're trying to build an asset base would be uh would be a really good first sign from Jon Lon okay so here's my question LZ if they do that let's not even talk about the players and we do have some questions like somebody brought up Khalil we and there's some other guys we could talk about in this range listen khil get khil has some lottery I got I got kware thoughts yeah okay yes let's do it but before we do that would you rather he trade back and get future draft assets or would it be a trade back and like Kyle Mets brings up you know like this being part of a bigger Ingram trade I guess this would be completely uh sorry Wes completely trading out Bobby bucket brings up like both picks for Grant 14 and 40 like so would it be for future draft assets would it be for a current player like what would you be looking for in that regards I would prioritize future draft assets before I prioritize like instant impact um I think this team needs to be better than 17 wins next season but I don't think that they need to win 38 games either and a guy like Brandon Ingram helps you do that a guy like Jeremy Grant helps you do that um I actually I just did a a podcast with James Edwards his Detroit players podcast and we did our offseasons and I gotta say like trading for Jeremy Grant like it looked good on paper but it really like blew a hole in like what you can do with the rest of your flexibility like moving forward and so I was like oh that was like actually like gaming that out seeing that I was like oh okay like maybe that's not something I'm as interested in as I thought I would be um but yeah I would prioritize future assets just because I think one way or another consolidation trades are coming for the Pistons yeah and having more future stuff to make those deals happen with is good Stephen sug says no team wants to trade a future draft Pi for a 2024 pick you would be surprised that's I say Stephen like I was with you 100% that this is not gonna happen but I can talk into if kingan's there at five are you telling me the Grizzlies aren't gonna offer something like he just makes so much sense there now I'm not saying you're gonna get Great Value I'm not saying you're getting awesome value to move back I just think that there may be a little bit more of that than what we think because it's so flat at the top and so people would go oh well why not just set at eight we think it's flat at the top but the more I've been in this like team's boards are so different I've talked to a team about a player who had one team had him like top 10 and another team thought he was maybe a two-way guy so like there is there is going to be crazy variants where Donovan kingan may be number one on a team's board and they see insane value to get him at five or maybe it's Reed maybe it's the upside of Ron Holland I just think we could be surprised maybe we get nothing but I'm with you L I think we could be surprised that some team may want to move up no doubt uh let's get into let's carry that right into into free agency um you know obviously you're seems like you're in more of an asset mode L when you look at this 64 million in cap space and it's so much cap space that realistically they could probably do several things with it it's not just one direction but are you Baro in the category of that's try to you know consolidate this for assets uh maybe eat a bad contract or two get future first for another young guy or is it more so let's just upgrade this roster we just paid Cade and we just need to move this needle as far forward as we can yeah we we do kind of need to pay Cade uh yeah yeah sort of yeah I think I again like you do need to make this team better but I don't think you have to like fully break the bank to do that um you this team was so bad you can make them better without adding $30 million of Jeremy Grant right yeah uh or you know the the 2728 it's going to be for Ingram with the with him having the expectation that he's gonna make 40 like next season right so it's like you you can do other stuff um obviously like there are a lot of names that have been floated about uh Malik monk uh one of again like one of the centers like Nick claxon or Isaiah hartstein if they don't end up drafting uh Donovan kingan um Tobias Harris is a name that like was floated around and then Troy Weaver got fired and you don't hear Tobias Harris linked to the Detroit business as much anymore uh but yeah I think that like there's I'm looking at uh I'm looking at guys who I think like are actual NBA players I'm looking and I'm also with that much cap space and they're not being a like you can't bring in Paul George and you don't need to like you can sit on this cap space for a while I'm looking more at restriced free agents like I'm looking at the Isaac a coros I'm looking at Patrick Williams um even like an Obi toppen like guys who normally teams hating hate like sitting on you know oh we don't have this 20 we made an offer we offered this guy 20 million so we don't have the 20 million for like four days uh that sucks was like what else are we gonna do with this 20 million like let's you know make Cleveland play pay through the nose for Isaac aoro right yeah what are your thoughts on Obi toppen so we had a question outside of the draft thoughts on Obi toppin Andor Taylor Hendricks I I don't think Taylor Hendricks is yeah I mean that would that would be a trade and it sounds like he's definitely at least in the short-term plans for the Jazz to figure that out I think Obi toen may be the most real of the restricted free agents because they have Pascal seum and then they have jarus Walker waiting in the wings and so to me they are the least inclined to match some offer especially if it's a little more than you're comfortable so I I think Obi toppin is interesting it doesn't help the stuff defensively but like we've talked about you there's not many guys are going to solve both ends of the court I'm I'm kind of interested now also like it's not gonna break the bank either right like you don't have to offer OB Obby toop in four years 80 million you can offer him the mid level exception is like 13 million Wes can check me on that but I think that's about where it's at it's like or Bruce brown type deal you know team option oh yeah like a big balloon thing yeah yeah uh that that could totally work and he would be he'd make the team better for that short-term period yeah I mean I think I'm interested to see if they do the Bruce Brown before Bruce Brown it was the JJ Reddit contract Keith Smith said this to us you know over a year ago Omari you really can't have a bad contract that only has one year and and Bruce Brown's contract was essentially one year like the the Raptors are essentially are we going to be able to do we want to pick it up so we can trade it or you know what do we want to do with it so I think that that is interesting are there any other like you brought up Malik monk I love Malik Monk just as a player I enjoy watching him play I think he can get Buckets I think he can really pass is he a great fit here like do you like the idea of Malik monk coming in whether it's starting coming off the bench just he's a good player he can really score the basketball or or not as much yeah I I like the idea of Malik monk I like the the highlights that Malik monk had last year if you look at Malik Monk's like basketball reference page he like he didn't have as good as a season as you thought he would he he did not I was looking at it last night and I was like dang these numbers don't pop off the way I thought for a guy this you know that people are talking about 20 to $25 million a year yeah and and that's my thing is uh if it's going to cost you 80 90 hundred million doll like I don't love it as much yeah but with the with the new subba with the new TV rights deal like two years from now 25 million might not be that much and so it's like it's livable and it's doable and again it makes the team better and so like Milik monk is a guy I definitely have interest in but I am not as interested in him as I feel like other fans are real quick so I see in the chat there's a lot of like Obie what's that GNA do for us Malik do you think this team I who can shoot you play Obie and assar together like that's your four five come on guys like think outside the box My Vibe is people think that they need to Star hunt so maybe Omari we can this to the trade we've talked Brandon egram I don't know what the other name is out there maybe Julius Randall like it's just looking at teams that just need to shed right you know I don't know if and that's and that's the thing with New York like do they need to shed do they come away from last season like we don't need Julius or is it still he's a good guy to have next to uh Brunson when you look around the league you have teams like Minnesota you have teams like Atlanta that probably need to shed some salary Murray um like which players in your mind are you sort of targeting us potential options not even guys that are like that you have to give up an asset to get the Pistons to want them but like genuine rotation guys that they after to [ __ ] yeah I'm thinking like a guy who I think about in that vein is uh Wiggins yeah just because like golden state is really facing a cap crunch for a team that uh does not look like one that they were like even you know two years ago when they won the championship and uh so like again like if you're trying to build an asset base like you could do far worse than like letting Andrew wiggin come and like just be athletic and like simplify his role and Golden State like gives you some stuff to take on that contract um another guy I've seen rumors I've seen the Zack LaVine rumors kind of resurface and that's something that like similar to Malik monk like I get it but I don't love it but I get it and so like that's a name that like I I I waffle very hard back and forth on Zack LaVine Julius Rand no thank you uh from purely from a fan perspective I don't want to watch 70 games of Julius Randall like I just don't like I I don't find his game uh like aesthetically appealing and I don't I don't want to watch it um and then last but not least like Ingram I think I really like Ingram I think there's a lot of star potential there like he's he's played at an all NBA level for stretches in his career and I think that having a secondary like Wing Creator shot Creator like next to Cade would be really beneficial for Cade in the in the future and like moving forward um but like again like I don't know how I feel about that next contract and he also occasionally displays like a complete reluctance to shoot threes even though he's like a not bad shooter and so it's like if if he's going to not shoot like he's gonna shoot two threes a game for like three weeks on end like I don't know how I feel about that either so the the going star hunting I I don't love as much is just like trying to build a good asset base re real quick guys as well just because we talked about Obi toppen doesn't mean we think Obi toppen is like the one and only move that that we think Detroit should make like I just want to I want to bring that up as well like yeah even if you paid him 13 million there's still 50 more million dollars a draft pick trades those type of things L you mentioned earlier that this team is really closing in on a consolidation trade with some of its young pieces so I think we're just trying to bring up different guys I don't want anybody to get a misconception that we're saying hey Obi toppen solves all the Pistons issues they're gonna go win 30 games like no like that takes them to 17 somebody else takes them to a little bit more like those type of things like it's all part of a there's a lot of moving Parts here I think that's why it's hard this off season is because there's money there's the young guys there's a draft pick all of those things together just makes it hard Amari to figure out what is the because you really can't make one move Amari it seems like without kind of knowing what the other moves around it are also gonna be and that's what makes it so interesting is that you know you one I think Tron has to figure out this team's Readiness and you look at a 14- win team and it's like well obviously nobody's ready because they just won 14 games but you still have to sort of pick a path right like how like do you want to go 10 out of 10 like let's just get the best possible Talent we can get or is it more so that conservative that's just get NBA players because there's a lot of just mid- tier guys who could come in and really uh serve Rose like I had a fre agency story go up to today but even a guy like Kyle Anderson or tan Prince or like it's just a lot of just solid Wings who can defend and or shoot that I think would upgrade the talent for for this team a lot uh we have about six seven minutes uh we have a few questions here that we can start to get into yeah I want to go back to let's go back to the real quick and then Kyle asked an interesting question just I think we can make it General you said you have khil we thoughts I need Khalil we thoughts here LZ okay so I'm not like we should trade back into the first to get khil wear but like that guy was I feel very much like Troy Weaver where I'm like that was an elite High School Prospect like he stayed the extra year and like L got a lot better under Mike Woodson at Indiana um with a skill set in shop blocking and perimeter shooting that at like from a big that I think the Pistons could really use but he's but he's weird he doesn't like he does he doesn't do enough of the good stuff to like to make you feel confident that like that's who he's gonna be as an NBA player um he also I would love to interview him or like i' if I was like l in I'd love to like get in a room with him and like how good do you think you are right like do you think like are you gonna come in and be like no Jaylen durren like I'm the starting center because like that's probably not gonna be the case but uh but if you're ready to come in and like be a role player be a guy who uh is willing to like listen to coaching and uh like fill a role that we need for this team that is something I would be interested in for the Pistons khil is hard man because I love the archetype and I think it's so valuable and listen I I don't play the Intel game like it just gets too convoluted I've heard that he's interviewed well and stuff like that so for people who aren't familiar khil wear has major motor concerns like that's been one of the biggest things that people have talked about going back to high school um I think some of those were answered with his play this year and again I've heard a little bit that maybe he's he's interviewed well and those type of things listen zuop like don't bring up Don Holmes with me because we'll be here for another hour so like you guys you guys got to learn I was waiting for the Don Holmes mention y'all y'all want to bring up Don Ron Holmes and this show's about to go off the rails that is that is my guy you can go f like go get my receipts I was tweeting about him months ago and so um and of course all of this is trading back guys like nobody's taking khil we or donon holes at number five also got a shout out one of my students Brian joined in on the fun here so what's up Brian Bry where where you at with Devin Carter because that's a guy like I haven't done my like dive on him yet but like that's another guy I keep seeing is like oh that may be interesting as like a trade down guy yeah uh Devin Carter is really interesting really risen he tested I know we talked about the testing stuff earlier but he tested well so I think people like very athletic I think in ESPN's thing today they called him the most clutch player my thing with so he's gonna be really he's gonna really defend yep he can play a little bit on the ball I don't know that like you're drafting him to be your primary guy he shot it insanely well this season and one of my hesit Is that real or not yes that's the thing with Carter so I like I was on a podcast recently where we were just like swooning over him and I was like okay we need to pump the brakes a little bit he is 22 years old already and before this year he hadn't shot over 30% from three he's right on the borderline 72% free throw shooter but he made 38% on 6.6 attempts this year like and the shot like has a little bit of a hitch like and it's a moonball I do have a few concerns but I think he's going to be a good two-way guard that that's a little bit comboy where he can operate a ball screen run your offense at times he's getting a lot of love right now though like you know at one point it was Devin Carter to Miami and now people are talking about him up to Sacramento and and even higher so uh yeah like he does take some crazy shots but their best player tour his ACL and so he kind of got thrust into a role where he had to be the dude and he really Rose to the occasion so uh Carter's interesting um Omari your dad asked a question what about an overpay for top in not not leaving New York hartenstein if cling isn't there so you guys thoughts on that offseason yeah and I guess I'm curious just how much would it take to pry hartenstein away to the point to where he's like I'm not g to try to run it back with New York like if you gave him and there's a team option at the end three years like 100 even so it's essentially two years 66 is that way too much that's so much money that is a lot of money is that too much a lot of money I would Kyle you can put this in there because I'm pretty sure Haren Stein's in a situation where they can only offer him so much yeah I'm pretty like it's the early bird ride stuff I think it's similar to the excuse me Malik monk thing and so it's either hartstein has to sign for less or I believe it was Bobby poris who signed like a one plus one so they could get full bull d one and yeah yeah yeah and all of that then you decline the second and sign the bigger so met said Kyle met says under 17 million so yeah it's it's four for 68 or something like that whatever it is and so I think you can get to 20 you know you can get hartstein for 20 if he wants to leave New York yeah you know like he's really thrived there and uh so it's interesting what what do you think Les M Mitchell Robinson is uh like ostensibly the starting center but like has had injury concerns too in a way that means like if I had signed in New York for 17 like I could still be the starter like I could still get to play a lot right and I like tibs tips trust me um like yeah I I don't see really why he would leave New York yeah um I like this question from Kyle speaking of is Rim protection or spacing more important for the Pistons at the five I I think this is a tough question because it kind of goes to like the rest of the roster but for you LZ like which do you think you know we just talked about Don Holmes this is the appeal with khil wear that maybe he spaces the floor what do you think Rim protection Rim protection um you like Boston is showing us that like if you can get both in the same dude like that's great but I think you have to the offenses are so good in today's NBA that like if you don't have a level of Rim protection I think you're just going to get beat repeatedly in a way that is not conducive to winning or like even like forming good habits as a basketball team with where this team is at so like if if you gave me a choice between like I don't know I'm trying to think of like a big who only shoots threes and like doesn't defend uh but like you don't even you don't even see that guy in the NBA anymore because run protection is so important uh but yeah like I would take like Rudy goar like on this team like at at over uh mythical guy who could only shoot threes and doesn't do anything be like the goar vers towns right like yeah wouldn't wouldn't that be a little bit of this argument yeah goar is a way better player yeah so Kyle says follow up and then we'll get you out of here unless Amari has something else can assar play with a non floor spacing big Pro not right now but you hope you hope that um eventually he learns how to because otherwise he's like not going to make it as an NBA player is that if you if you have to shift around the entire roster to accommodate one guy who's not even your main guy like maybe that guy is just not as important as you like otherwise think um but yeah I and you would hope that uh a CO teams work around two non-shooters uh like offensively uh you you see other teams do it uh the warriors with like Draymond and another big like you there was stuff that you could do uh as a non-shooting player there's like dribble handoffs but um you'd still hope assar is like you know in locked in the gym like figuring out his shots that that's not even something you're worried about for sure no doubt uh I don't I don't have anything else last it's always a massive massive massive pleasure having you on the Pod um this was the perfect time to do it for sure now we're sort of in The Crossroads of things are starting to get going but they haven't fully gotten going yet um you know if you want to tell the people they can find you feel free yeah again Omari and Bryce thank you so much for having me on I really appreciate it uh I love the work you guys do and I love the progression you guys have made uh over the course of the life of this podcast uh people can follow me on Twitter at last chance that's at L AZ c h an C I am still affiliated with Detroit Bad Boys and you should go to Detroit badboy.com and check out the work we're doing uh over the course of this offseason things are slow for us as well we're doing our our big now is we're doing our big mock uh offseason but it's uh different users control all 30 NBA teams and so like right now we're just like all making trades with each other like blowing up a bunch of teams it's great sounds chaotic yeah it's very chaotic but thank again thank you guys for having me no always Bryce you have anything thing no I mean whenever LZ comes on the hour goes crazy fast so we appreciate you very much glad you're doing well yes make sure you check out Detroit boys the website the YouTube where our guy West Davenport has a pod over there with the pin down just make sure you guys are are tuning in to all of that stuff tons of great Pistons content all over the place and and we'll have LZ back very soon because we appreciate him so much and he we have such a blast no doubt but before I close this out just wanted to give a very very big thanks to our spur Senator Kirkland Crawford his last uh day at the free presses this week I can't tell you what his first year at the Free Press is because he's been there for so long but he's been the uh s editor uh for our desk uh almost going on four years now so almost the entire time I've been at the Free Press uh we're are going to miss Kirk a lot um and he's our the executive producer of our pod too and has been a very very big supporter from day one so Kirk best of luck uh thank you for everything and with that I'll close this out uh it's a big thanks to our audio producer Robin Chan our editor-in chief Nico Avery Nichols and our executive producer Kirkland Crawford and big thanks to Wes as always and we'll talk to you all next week