#136 Curtis McGrath

next minute I'm looking up at the sky and it's like rocks and debris and dirt and it's dark and it's real Dusty that's really quiet I'm like what the hell has this happened welcome to the podcast where we track down Australian War veterans have a chat with them and hear their stories I'm Alex Lloyd and this is life on the line the single greatest sacrifice I've made is in my family we weren't out there to take country I did feel a lot of regret friends were still getting chilled it got to the point where you know you're going to a few months and that was a heavy responsibility I guess on my shoulders that I didn't want to be resilient it's a Horror Story it should never be dressed up as if it's something glorious you can do for yourself or what can you do for your country the volunteer for service was in the fair to put your life on the land welcome to the final veteran conversation for season six of life on the line Curtis McGrath is a soldier turned sporting Superstar he was a combat engineer in the Australian Army and lost his legs when he stepped on an improvised explosive device in Afghanistan in 2012. from there he set himself a seemingly impossible goal to compete in the Paralympics today 10 years on Curtis is a world champion paragonist having won over a dozen gold medals at numerous paracanu World Championships and at the 2016 and 2020 Paralympics Curtis spoke to me about his military career the day of the blast in Afghanistan his remarkable outlook on life and how he turned a potentially life-ending moment into something remarkably powerful and life-changing welcome to life on the line I'm Alex Lloyd speaking today with Curtis McGraw Curtis welcome to the podcast hey how you going thank you for having me thank you for being here now Curtis let's track Back to Where it All Began for you where were you born so I grew up in New Zealand I was born in Dunedin in the south island but my parents were living sort of central otago area which is around like Wanaka and Queenstown and Alexandra so I had a pretty adventurous lifestyle growing up there a lot of outdoor activities I did live in Western Australia for four years when I was little from 10 to 14 so I had a bit of Outback upbringing but a boarding school in Perth as well and then we moved back to Central otago to help manage some family sort of land and property there and I finished up my high school in Queenstown so a pretty adventurous venture capital of someone say the world but I'd say uh just New Zealand there's a lot uh going on there you know playing rugby in in snowboarding in the winter and cricket and kayaking and swimming and all sorts of different activities in the summer so we all get asked what we want to do with ourselves when we leave school and I was pretty Keen to continue on with that Adventure so luckily enough for me I have my dual citizenship and signed up and in um 2006 in June so yeah I just wanted to continue on the adventure well it sounds like you had let's say quite a practical childhood sounds very sporty also uh with a family that lives on the land that kind of thing and the varied experiences in New Zealand and in Australia especially say in your teen years I mean at both places you went to school you've been very familiar with Anzac Legend and that kind of history but I guess what first Drew your eye to the military was it chasing the adventure was there any family history anything like that look I'm the first of my family to volunteer my grandfather did a bit of like national service in the 50s so um obviously before uh the Vietnam conflict and obviously Korea was right around them but I think um New Zealand was sending um sort of national service on that shows as we call them here yeah I think that's in a bit of artillery and some soldiers over but I'm not I'm not too sure about that but um yeah that was sort of the chase the adventure I think um you know understanding that I was was not not the best student at school um I think I probably was distracted by what was on offer outside I was pretty good at the PE and the outdoor recreation side of things but I really didn't uh want to hook back into the books and head off to University as well all of my friends were doing pretty much 90 of my friends they weren't doing that they were tradies and I often thought about doing that sort of thing but really didn't sort of spark that adventurous side of me so I wanted to explore something new going new places and um you know just experience new things and for me really enjoying their outdoor stuff um sort of the military I knew you know especially the Army was very orientated outdoors and having that sort of quite a little bit of physical element to it was was something that I was attracted to um to push yourself and I had a teacher outdoor recreation teacher called Mr McIntyre and Ken mcinty's is a bit of a wakatipu high school Legend um and he he introduced me to kayaking on this big school camp in year 10 and we did like snow caving and like big hiking trekking uh like weekend or five day Adventures up into the mountains of New Zealand it was it was really amazing and it sort of you know partnered that seed about you know go getting outdoors and enjoying that and sort of a physical but also a team orientated process so the military was definitely something I was drawn to but as well as I was always interested in aviation currently studying a bachelor of Aviation at the moment so just to continue on that that theme but obviously I had a bit of a sabbatical there but the aviation was something I was always interested in and my cousin was a helicopter pilot in Queenstown so I often got to get on rides with him and fly around which was awesome and then with the choice of role in which I wanted to do I wanted to be an aircraft technician so fixing helicopters was my main sort of goal and in Australia you can direct entry into that role through the recruiting process into the army or the or the Navy but in New Zealand they intake that role through the Air Force and it is you've got to go and do fixed swings so it planes first and I was not really interested in that why waste the time something I don't want to do so I decided to um to pack up things and move over to Australia I still in a way kind of feel new as a kiwi but at the same time I understood that the values and cultures of the people within the two countries you know very sport orientated love going Outdoors national pride we're in the corner of you know geographically isolated in our own little corner of the world so we feel sort of responsible for but helping out further afield than what we what other countries do and to me they seem like the same sort of organization obviously just wearing a different um with a different government but in all in all we're generally joined in military conflicts from like for the most part so I didn't see it it's too much of a difference um there was a few differences obviously the equipment the opportunity to deploy to different places it's a bigger organization that's it's pretty much it's just a a big organization that's able to get into more places and do more things so that was you know attractive to me and you know you get paid a little bit more too so that that OS is a bit of a perk that always adds up so as you said you join in 2006 we've been at war in Afghanistan and Iraq for a few years by now so the possibility of that deployment and getting to have not just the outdoor experiences but learn skills test those skills in real settings contribute as you were saying that's all very much on the cards and you migrate from the dream of aircraft off technician and end up in combat engineering yeah that's right so I had everything I needed you know education wise ticked all the boxes physical the only thing that was missing was an opportunity uh with the Army um they weren't recruiting them for the next sort of 12 to 18 months and when they told me that I thank God I think I was still 17 so I was very young you know naive you know that's it's a long time for it for a 17 year old so I was like what else have you got for me and oh what about building stuff and then blowing them up and I was like oh that sounds like fun I'll do I'll do that so combat engineering signed on the line and about uh two months later I was at um kapukra out near Wagga Wagga and doing basic training so that role specifically unbeknown to me it was it was more like uh at the Army's laborer and I was uh unaware of that obviously most people are pretty naive to that fact until you're actually doing on the end of a shovel or on an end of a hammer you know there's some some great things that I got to do especially in the humanitarian side of things the deployments that we do as a combat engineer generally you know helping out the community after a disaster or you know a conflict that's been through and we can provide and build infrastructure and and you know vital pieces of infrastructure like Bridges and water purification for the local community or The Wider Community too so having that sort of fulfillment and that that degree of purpose uh within the military and within the locations we're going for example we went over to East Timor and built foot Bridges and medical centers and water tanks for orphanages and it was you know really fulfilling we felt really valued there and then uh you know over to Indonesia for an earthquake that broke up all the water infrastructure so we were desalinating sea water into drinking water for the community so we're felt like we were very very uh in demand and highly sort of regarded for our capabilities so that was really fulfilling but it was always the case of not really getting to do that combat side of my role until we were put into a combat combat situation which was you know much further down the road but combat engineering I made some amazing friends and I think that's why I stuck with it for so long you know the guys I went through my engineer training at the school of military engineering was you know they're world class and I'm I'm you know still great friends with them now and that's something that um I think the the military specifically and any sort of service related organization won't be it police or fires or whatever you gained such respect for each other because you're all going through the challenges together and you get out the other side together and I think that's something that that bonds people a lot a lot better than just you know doing some team building strategies in the office or anything you need to go out and challenge yourself physically mentally psychologically get in get amongst their break down the barriers and feel vulnerable together and then you build you build you know those friendships and those relationships are a hell of a lot stronger because as you say you've sold to you as you get to blow stuff up and so on and it's one of those things if you say combat engineer people think of the sappers in Vietnam they'll think of the work you were doing you'll end up doing in Afghanistan which we'll get to in a moment but yeah it's all those other jobs that you said and just you join in o6 as we've said and then in 2008 you have quite a busy year because you've got your time a few months in Malaysia you've got your team or deployment you've got the earthquake you mentioned as well which I think was right after that so you've got a busy year not really doing the explosive sexy side of your job but a lot of hard work I guess it's it's that team bonding but it's that you're really helping these communities in um places of need is there like a standout couple of memories uh from doing that work in those countries yeah I remember the I spoke about in East Timor we did the um the water tank at an orphanage and um you know obviously an orphanage is not the yeah these kids have had a hard time hard life and they're only you know four years old some of them and some of them are you know 15 and you can see that you know that there's some trauma there in its own sort of way and nothing that I've I've felt myself or experience or even witnessed before I think I should say you know this is the first time I've been in orphanage this is the first time I'd seen children without parents that were looked after by nuns and and community members and it was you know it's touching and uh we that was we did the water tank it was one of the first jobs that I got to do that was probably about a month then to our eight-month tour and um probably I think that's probably October October September October whatever it was and we're like oh why don't we spend like you know 50 US dollars each which is you know bugger all in comparison because we're not spending our money we're not not doing anything why don't we just go to the local like store and buy a heap of toys like too many toys we bought way too many toys that the the nuns were not they were impressed but they were like oh we need to like hold on to these so we we rocked up with like a truckload full of toys for kids for Christmas so we went and had like a Christmas dinner with them which was really cool uh really sort of nice gesture I didn't think we could do um just to make make their lives just a little bit happier and hopefully um a bit more you know hope towards it so which was you know a really fulfilling feeling um the best thing we did was give them a water tank that they could store all their water in and that's the practical help yes yeah but the kids kids don't see that they don't understand that so you know um well they might but it's always fun when you get to hang out with the kids and you know play with the toys with them and another one um we're in in Indonesia we're making water and we've probably made you know close to a million liters of water or whatnot over Collective different water points along the coast and then there was three water points and our our water point was placed on on a Rubbish Tip was right next to the ocean you know developing nations they don't generally put the Rubbish Tip in the best spots but um we are we're there and we're trying to do the best we can and as we wrapped up we realized that um sorry they realized that we were about to leave and um so they started bringing out like their meals for us like cooked we were on Russian packs which everyone in the military or anyone who's eaten eaten rough is is pretty adverse to eating these things because they're not that nice but um they'd bring out like whatever they had so it was like rice and like goat stew but the goat meat was not like you know chuck steak it was spines it was you know all the off cuts the the cheaper cuts of Nate and it was and I'm not diminishing the the gesture I'm trying to enhance it because what they had was little and what they were giving us was a lot and we felt you know we didn't really we're just doing our job making water and didn't really think much of it but they were obviously very appreciative of it that was you know one of those moments that I was like oh actually the work that we do does make a big difference even though it is incredibly hard like it was you know really average conditions you know with all that sort of stuff so hard physical labor as well like you would just be tired at the end yeah yeah I remember I remember this on the water point because we were dredging like pulling the water out of the ocean obviously it's on the beach and we've got this valve in the water and it's obviously all the sand gets kicked up at a beach on in the water so we had to do like staging tanks to get rid of the sand before it goes into the big machines because these machines were very expensive and they were sort of new to the military as well in the sediment tanks we'd have to like shovel all the sand out without obviously piercing the tanks which made it Canvas OR Rubber and um I just remember like the second day I was there I got so sunburned and and then for the rest of the trip I was like peeling and trying not to get burnt and it was hot and it was humid and it stunk and you know all that sort of stuff so perks of the trade I guess so over the 2008 nine period you've had these really self-fulfilling uh purpose-driven experiences through your military careers you sign up for adventure and explosions and you've got some hard labor but some really gratifying work you've bonded well with your mates and then you have a couple of years before we get to your 2012 Afghanistan deployment you would have had pre-deployment training and otherwise just the day in day out existence of exercises and other standard domestic Aussie military life yeah that's right there's a whole lot of autumn that goes along with the military which is unfortunate um is it sold as action-packed adventurous lifestyle there's moments of that but more more of nothing and um it's you know all about being prepared for the event of of something uh whether it be a conflict or a humanitarian or or recovery and and whatnot so in 2011 obviously the Brisbane floods that happened I was posted to the six engineer support regiment which is um a sort of a construction based unit doing more large scale like we can do like big roads and community centers not just little little things like you know water tanks and or medical centers we've like built really big stuff so that was the capability of that unit but um helping out with the Brisbane floods is some of the like the worst work I've ever done just the the scale of it was was really big and I'd never been into a situation or an environment where it was complete and utter like disaster which which was kind of weird because that's you know I live in Brisbane at the moment and that's what was you know that's home having that that sort of experience in 2011 and then yeah and then the the pre-deployment which I'll get to in a moment but the scale and the work that we were doing you know it was on and then you're off again and then you prepare for the next disaster or the next event or the next something yeah just whatever was going on just especially being an engineer because our capability is quite large a role is really broad so we can you know make water we can build roads we can fix things we've got electricians to do you know electronics and plumbing and and then we've got plant equipment to build roads and grade things and and build forwarding things through the rivers and all that sort of stuff but as well as that we can do explosives and bridges and and defensive positions and all that sort of thing so there's it's very Broad and that's why our role is quite interesting but often we're generally focused and my my experience was all focused around that humanitarian that recovery the disaster relief stuff but because your role is so varied I mean with any skill use it or lose it and it's that constant training to keep all these things ready because there's a flood suddenly as you were just saying you have to suddenly go and deploy and have certain skills up your sleeve or you're getting ready to use a specific set of skills you can kind of forecast that you know that you'll need but you need other redundant skills or backup skills depending on what situations arise there's so much just repetition and training that goes into that not just learning it in the first place on a course but then reinforcing relearning that and that's why it's the long stretches of boredom because there's that expectation of when you guys are needed at home or overseas there's just instantly ready instantly can do and fulfill the function perform the task yeah that's right and that that's why we can lead into like the pre-deployment training now because though each sort of scenario or or environment or situation deployment requires like a set set of skills and being a combat engineer meant that our role was then sort of pivoting towards rather than humanitarian relief which in a role in the way we were doing but we're doing it in a different way and that's that's providing Mobility so I I often say tell people like what is the role of a combat engineer and officially it's provide mobility and deny Mobility so obviously that Community thing for building the bridge the roads the water tanks you know all that sort of stuff but also to search the way forward for the the landmines the getting rid of the blowing up the the defensive sort of structures that are stopping the road like the Dragon's Teeth and all that sort of stuff so that role function sort of switches and then we can focus on specifically what the dangers and the risk mitigation factors are of that role and in Afghanistan and Iraq for a combat engineer it was to provide the mobility and searching for the improvised explosive devices or landmines or caged weapons so or and the the the the devices in which create these things are weapons as well so more specific and that's why the training for that if you do that all the time you know if you don't use it you lose it or you know or you data dump it as it was called in the Army because you get taught so much stuff you're like oh I can't and you've got to test at the end of the week and then you don't use it for months maybe years and this is what was happening so with the search stuff it was very intense we started in I think it was in October late October 2011 um and we just we went gung-ho for until we deployed so it was just train train train train train if not we were on a it was like Anzac Day or we were had a week off just to recover and rest and then was back to it or you're on a like a a specialist course like a Combat First Aid course or a signals course or a driving pmv or um crew Commander course like it was just there's so much going on and it was I mean all the time thinking about the search and the safety and this risk mitigation situation and that we were getting taught to do and that's why the tempo and a pre-deployment phase is almost more than what what it is on deployment sometimes so and not necessarily for us but for other guys I'm sure it was you know the amount of exercise time that you do and that's why unfortunately you know so many couples like broke up or have you know relationship issues because you do an appointment before you go into deployment and and I don't think that's so sort of recognize because the amount of the high tempo of that training to get ready to go is huge and one thing about your pre-deployment training worth mentioning for later in the story is you were also became I guess the unofficial medic of your full person team so yeah yeah so Combat First Data I just mentioned the first day course is like a secondary function within the combat engineer or a brick so every four to five people that have one person that was trained usually one person that was trained in a um in a high level first date so we got taught how to do sucking chest wounds IV fluid morphine um you know more complex sort of combat injuries obviously everyone gets sort in basic first aid which entails you know bandages and tourniques and splints and you know dealing with a snake bite but that situation is very basic and you know most people should be able to understand that they're bleeding to try and stop the bleeding you know if their legs sideways which would probably Splinter that that sort of thing you know that that's that's sort of common knowledge but you get trained in a generic sense for the basic Soldier but as a Combat First Data it's just a little bit like higher level so which means that we carry you know the kit for that that role other guys are doing you know combat signal courses so they're doing more Advanced Communications and radios and and other things in that that regard um and then the brick Commander obviously has got other courses they need to do for command and control and certain other aspects so for me obviously the first day and it was really cool like I really enjoyed that course and be actually training in the pre-deployment setting was was awesome you know there was BNS which was Battle noise simulation so little small like die size bits of dynamite going off on the ground it's all controlled but in a a combat scenario which has done up and in a contact we're doing all this this training in all the first aid training and e-backing and going into contact and then coming out and treating first aid in a mass casualty and triaging it's um yeah it's pretty gnarly but um it's it's good times and you mentioned there the very real challenges all relationships and juggling that balance of professional and personal life and the under recognition of what pre-deployment training can do to a personal life and obviously from a partner's perspective there's just the absence of you uh in that sense but is it also I guess uh were you in a relationship at the time of this pre-deployment training also yeah yeah I had a girlfriend then and and so if you stuck with me which is nice so and now your wife yeah but then I guess for you are you you're obviously mindful of keeping this relationship but also you're I must you must be distracted and excited about you know this training it's intense it takes a lot of your mental energy physical energy but also you know it's to get you to Afghanistan and so your head's kind of split with it that be fair to say yeah I guess it would be all consuming I reckon that would probably be the best way to put it you know you're always talking about what's happening next or where you're going what the situation is and the you know the location what you're applying to whether it be humanitarian or combat but specifically on the combat side of things the risks are higher um you know the the insurgents are actually there you know all that sort of things so it was exciting at the same time as a new place new adventure and new opportunities to see new things and experience new things and I must say with with different guys that I worked with before I got attached to the second combat engineer regiment so working with a new team of guys which was which is good it's always nice to meet new people and go on adventures together and going through what we call the surdex phase which is like the certification for a combat engineer so we're one of the few roles that actually gets certified to go on deployment we have to pass like a test a big like five day exercise that's quite strenuous it's very high Tempo you would do night searches we do day search we do morning it's building Road search vehicle search we we're doing all sorts of different things coming across last scenes where we have to do sort of forensics which is golden Court friends it's just batting and tagging everything and putting in the car and sending it on its way but trying to figure that out so it's all about you know the risk mitigation is really high for our role but insane is like all consuming you're trying to like think about what's coming next or or where we're going or what exercise you're going to throw at us next so all that sort of thing is as as I said all consuming and then Curtis 11 years after the world changes with 911 six years after you join the military you finally deploy to Afghanistan and you've deployed overseas before but this is in a different role with different people different hemisphere it's not a humanitarian operation it's a war zone before we get to the events of uh late August that year that really changed your life what I guess are your initial impressions of the country how do you find selling into the routine over there if there is one what's those first moments or what's our first period like in country for you there's a a war going on and there's a lot of a lot of talk about contacts and IEDs and insurgents there and in combat here and there and everywhere and when we got there I was like oh like you know we're all bodied armored up and you know got a lot of ammunition grenades and stuff and grenade launches attached to us and we're like all right we're obviously up for a fight or something and just for the first three months was nothing like all we did was go on search and Route the trials and yeah we found a lot of um cached weapons so you know weapons that the insurgents would hide away so they could pull out and fight another day or Cache components for IEDs so you know a broken TV or a computer that they've pulled apart and put into a bag so they could construct something later you know um looking for explosive componentry old land mines or old RPG rounds that had sort of bunched together and use that as the explosion all that sort of thing we'd find a lot of that stuff but we never really found any setup IEDs really to you know go off on someone which was somewhat confusing because you know what we've been told is as I said you know the combat zone you know there's going on everywhere and that was something that like okay like this is going to be dangerous but it never really gave us that sense and never gave us the sense of danger it never gave us the sense that there was insurgents all around us you know like it was just a little bit not fun I wouldn't say it was false it was just to like this this false sense of security in a way um sort of but we were always you know obviously we were being safe so we weren't you know missing any iuds or you know the next car that drives over the area type thing it wasn't none of that so that was somewhat like confusing um and the people were really nice and we didn't really get too much uh interaction with them which I think is the big difference for me compared to the other deployments I've been on you know we were working with the people like with the local people with the local military in order to help their people or the community and this time we were not at all we were we were purely out to to search the road or search through someone's house and to see if they had any weapons or to see if they were you know Taliban sympathizer the organization was that was our enemy we probably weren't as welcome as we were in his team well that's for sure we weren't quite at the level throughout the deployment and the security sort of enhancement to be able to provide the the aid or the provisions or the infrastructure that we've done in East Timor in Indonesia and so on so obviously different circumstances you know different different environment but it just didn't feel as dangerous as what had been made out to be but also the lack of satisfaction because of that and because of sort of that disconnect between we weren't actually really helping and we weren't actually providing anything for the people and I think that was that was quite weird for me because obviously there were points in the past really fulfilling really satisfying but we weren't actually providing anything for them other than the fact that they could drive on the road that we just searched over but if we go around the corner for you know an hour or two and then come back that road needs to be searched again so it's like a weird sort of feeling about where we were and what we were we're doing because we're only providing support to our Coalition forces in a a allies at the time so very different as I said but very interesting and incredibly beautiful as well I should Point very dry and desolate but then it is like massive amount and so far a massive like you know I grew up in the mountains and these things were were huge and to feel like you're in the mountains but in the desert at the same time was quite odd and then you'd go into the green zone which is down where the rivers are and all the people live in you know water flows and all that sort of thing the crops grow was really humid so it was a kind of a weird weird environment but um an Great Adventure a relatively tame Great Adventure in those uh first few months and then the 23rd of August is a dramatic date for you shall we say but is there any lead up to that there is a bit of a lead up to that so we got when we were in this sort of Mobility team so we would provide Mobility to support from Taran count which is the headquarters to the Australian deployment and we go out and provide you know route route clearance out to the patrol bases and then we're going to be in the patrol bases and provide them some Mobility support there but whilst we were out at these Patrol bases like patrol-based barley and Hadrian and mirror wise and all that sort of stuff we would assist them in their clearance operations so then we'd join their combat team and become sort of part of their their capability to provide more Mobility for the rest of the patrol the rest of the combat team so we got attached to this team that was at patrol base Wiley we were heading out to patrol by Santa condo which is way out way out in the uruzukan province like right on the border of other provinces and American Special Forces for there and it's not always a good sign when those guys are in town especially when you're someone who looks at the dirt for sticks for falling in the right way or an IED or whatever it's you know that there's insurgents in the area which in town we got the things called Camp Holland they were that was the Australian Special Forces but they would leave town to go out to other places and pursue the enemy we're actually in patrol base anaconda and they would just leave their base to go and fight them and we knew that we were going to be doing that the goat American the greenbriers they said oh you know if you go past this hill you guys gonna get a big contact it's going to be you know it's pretty good it got me gnarly you know I was like fire this is Way Beyond what we were doing back down the road like that this is this is pretty crazy it took two and a half days to get out to Anaconda so by road so that's and you only travel probably 50 60ks I'm not even you could probably only do 60 canes a day so if there's any indication that that all depends on the ground as well but anyway it's a long way away and what I'm trying to say then Americans got shut down in in the area I think the southern part of Afghanistan got shut down the American part they all had to stay in base because there was a a few green on blues and that that I'm sure you've discussed this before but the green on Blue is when the insurgents have infiltrated your Allied Forces so in this case the Afghan National Army and then turned on our Coalition forces so on on the Americans at that time and on the Australians a couple days after I get injured but that sort of made the threat go up a bit higher because you know the Americans had a lot of Firepower they knew the ground they've been there for months they they knew what was going on they knew where the surgeons you know would likely be blah blah blah and then they're no longer with us and they're no longer bringing their their search team which was a local Afghani team um and uh we called them the stick pokers because like quite literally they'll go out with like a sharpened broomstick and like stick poke the ground and pull the ID out of the ground with the stick which is obviously incredibly dangerous but because of of their ability to do this we knew that they were very good obviously firstly they're alive and secondly the fact that the Americans relied on them to move about which was you know obviously identifying that they're good at their job so we're pretty keen on them coming along and obviously when they couldn't it raises that risk again and unfortunately we requested a search dog because the one that was allocated to us had to go back to Australia because they got sick and there was a lot of you know falling dominoes that sort of raised the risk a lot higher and we've got tasks with a five-day Patrol to go out and re-establish this checkpoint that the Afghan police force had been pushed out from the Insurgent activity in the area and as we moved out I think we were maybe a k and a half from Anaconda we were heading behind a hill but we came across and it was just like blast craters and vehicles blowing up and it was just everywhere I should say and it was just a mess and we were like man like there's definitely an IED in this area like it was it's obvious that it was in front of us just due to the way in which which looked and sure enough you know you started properly certain like I wouldn't say we weren't properly searching before but obviously we were going a lot slower a little we're a lot more thorough because of the the risk which we were in and um sure enough we found our first lady after three months in the country which we've been trained to do so the risk was getting higher and higher and we just like man we are actually in a combat zone now we are actually in a war zone and and it felt like that too but you know before that yeah we carried weapons and more body armor but I'd done that in these Timor and we weren't in a combat zone the threat felt real finally yeah yeah yeah I actually felt like we were we could we couldn't use this body armor we could use this weapon but also we could use the skills uh properly in the sense that we were actually at risk of of an IED which was make the you know hairs in the back of your neck stand up what not yeah so we found our first ID we searched forward so I should probably talk about how that works so we wave a metal detector over the ground um we get a bit of a metal hit whether that's a Coke can tab or an extended round shell casing or it's an ID or it's just you know a bit of wire that's fallen off a back of a truck or whatnot it could be anything can actually most of the time you can't see them underground so you move back have a look around you identify if there's any ground sign like your depreciation in the soil all that sort of thing it would clearly identifiers we're always looking for patterns really if you know if there's stacks of rocks around it I'm marking things like that that's always the little signs we then get down on our guts and we sort of get a mind Potter and we sort of plot away at the ground and see if we can feel anything hard you know it could be a crushed Coke can or it could be a pressure plate for something because that could they could look quite literally use a crush coat can to make a advice you sort of scoop away the dirt obviously very very carefully because it's got anti-tan uh tampering sort of devices on them and then you expose it you know oh actually that is my IUD and then you you step back take a photo and you move back to the vehicles and in that process all in that time usually the combat I don't sorry that the patrol Commander is on the radio to the the qrf the quick reaction force which has the explosive ordinance disposal team with them so they'll roll on out and come and clear that clear the IED or if the patrol or the mission is a higher priority you find another way around just market and leave it and just keep going it is literally up close and personal with that with you on the guts brushing the Dirt away I mean how do you feel when doing that because it is I can only imagine how it just could be so close and just that one moment away from finding something yeah obviously it's a pretty high adrenaline fueled adventurous activity but at the same time for me like I I didn't find an IND the same way the other boys did like like I've just explained but I was trained the same way they were so when when you're finding it or finding something I've found a lot of cached weapons which you always consider them as IDs until you identify them not it's all about like the training the training kicks in so you're sort of going through a process it's like all right that's what that is so you're always looking for the training what you've been told so like skipping away the dirt you're like oh is that a landline like a manufactured landline or is this an improvised device so you're always looking for that like oh where's the where's the main charge if I've found the trigger or the battery pack like where's that like the way in which they've set them up you're super focused on the work and that is yeah yeah so before you get on your guts yet you switch off all your your radio um because obviously you're transmitting over your devices can be fatal as well you don't want it you only want to yell communication and it's generally one person and that's the brick Commander so livo in our case he's the only one talking to him the rest of the search teams pull back behind everyone we're all sort of spaced out you know 15 20 meters especially when there's a device around yeah and then the obviously everyone behind us learn infantry the security whatever asset we're moving with us they're all on edge as well because of you know we've found an IED and they're like well it's up to us as an engineer to clear it or search for it and get it out of the way so they can come on through it is pretty sketchy but you know it's part of what we what we're trained to do and I believe our training was in world class so you're at this Zone you look around and go there's got to be an IED here and you start looking what happens next yeah so obviously you've talked about the qrf and the EOD team they've come out cleared it and we move on there's only one EOD team on this particular combat team so they had to go back with the qrf because there's other patrols happening around the place um so we have to continue on and sure enough 100 meters later we find another IED you know now that we've found one we're even going slower and we're more thorough so our rate of pay rate of progress would be an hour per 200 meters probably it was it was slow work and you know we're three and a half thousand meters above sea level it's 45 degree or 40 degree heat we're wearing 15 20 kilos with a kit you know working about 40 now days not to mention that the risk and the the high level of focus in which we're exerting means that it's pretty pretty hard work but leaning board you know you've got to get on with it so we call back out the qaf they come back out and then they go back and then then we have a little bit of a period where we don't find anything for maybe a kilometer and that's where we just get onto the side of this checkpoint area and then we find another one and the qrf then comes out and then the sun goes down um and then we have to wait oh actually no that was in the next morning they'd come out so we had found it and it was too dark for them to get out to us so they come out in the morning and what was happening was because we weren't able to see the path in which we'd come in there insurgents had gone back out and set up more ideas to get us on the way back so the qrf had found the IEDs on the way out again back to us in the morning so that was interesting because we didn't realize that what was going on so they had found another idea and they were getting rid of it and we heard this big explosion but we didn't because our radios were sort of internal to our brick we didn't have the overall combat radio which is what the patrol commander and the brick Commander's got and we're just sort of searching away and all of a sudden explosion goes off on that holy we've missed one but it was the EOD team found another ID and blah blah blah come on out anyway it was yeah there's a lot going on it was it was hectic and then they come out clear that one and we finally get up on top of this checkpoint and we realized that there's big boulder in the road of the on the main road and we couldn't get our vehicles past it because it's something like a big help a really steep hill and then so we find another way up onto it and we get up on top of the checkpoint start searching and sitting in the Afghan Army that was with us to provide security this is on the third day the third day and that's just an indication of how actually how slow we're going um just to get get forward and be as safe as possible and then on the fourth day we got approval to explosively remove that big boulder that was blocking the road because we knew that the Afghan Army was going to need to use this this track because it was the the easiest way and so our suite will go ride this rock up and as I talked about you know the fatigue the conditions which were working in fatigue start sitting and I went on to like a different Boulder that was on like the road which we've been using on the side like a little like goat track pretty much and I just wasn't really thinking it's hot and tired I'm hungry all the rest pretty understandable yeah yeah yeah and I just wasn't really listening and you know assumes the assumptions of their mothers of all stuff up so you get you get that sort of vibe after a time and I assumed it was the other Rock and I was wrong and so I'm just sitting there waiting and my mate pitch comes over to me and pitches like what are you doing I'm like oh like I thought it was this one he's no idiots the other one was oh okay yeah of course so we've already searched pretty much the whole top of the checkpoint apart from a few little areas and um walking along and pictures behind me about 15 20 meters behind me I'm probably a little bit closer it's more like 10 meters next minute I'm looking up at the sky and it's like rocks and debris and dirt and it's dark and it's real Dusty that's really quiet I'm like what the hell has this happened so you're moving from the wrong Boulder to the correct Boulder yeah over an area where I had already searched so the going from one bowl to the other it was all searched and specifically the the path in which I was walking on was the one that I searched on along and we probably walked past this area maybe a hundred times so not me specifically but all over you know all the pro 100 times someone's walked past or walked through that area so there's Footprints everywhere markers on the ground to say don't go past this and it's we're all within this boundary and walk along and yeah next minute I'm like on the flat of my back looking up at the sky going what the hell has this happened like what like this is this is strange no pain at this stage I sort of get out of my my days and I get up on my elbows and like the penny just drops I knew what had happened and I could see the blast crater next to me I could see bits of my metal detector all over the place I can see my riflewood being like snapped in half and blowing out of my hand it was off to the right hand side and and then I obviously saw my legs and that same process and um I could see the blood was like coming out of me really hard it was like trickling down the dirt and into the blast crater and I just was like and that's when the pain hit and then I started screaming and and um the pain was so intense it wasn't just my legs it was like my arms my ears my back my bum my my leg everything about my body was under this same amount of intense pain like it it wasn't isolated I didn't realize that I severely injured my left hand I'd had like four heaps of broken bones from my fingers and my wrist and burns and all that up my arms and I crossed my top of my fingers obviously in a bit of strife and I knew that obviously with my Combat First Aid training I could see that the blood was like coming out really fast you could see that your legs were gone yeah gone like completely gone they weren't like hanging off or broken they were gone I grabbed my right leg and realized there was a real large wound and on like and I was touching my femur when I grabbed it and the pain and then I realized that my left leg was spraying all blood so I grabbed that to stop it and so I pulled off my tourniquet and tried to Loop that over but every time I got off my elbows I kept falling backwards because I didn't have any um weight to hold me down with my legs and so I couldn't put on my own tourniquet which I knew I needed really really urgently and I could hear a patch screaming off to the side I sort of remember looking over towards him I could see it was still standing up and sort of spinning around and I yelled at him to get my 20 case on and he came like sprinting into my side and um applied the first tourni cane and got the second one on unbeknown of me and probably him and everyone else he had actually had two perforated eardrums and a really bad concussion so he's appeared uninjured but was I wouldn't say severe really injured but but minor had some minor injuries that given the situation probably adrenaline was flowing and it wasn't wasn't a big thing at the moment for him and then the rest of the patrol the engineer Patrol plus a few security guys that were with us infantry guys for the security they came running up from the boulder which I was supposed to be at and they um obviously came across the scene of me laying on the ground bleeding out and they sort of shock and awe and Trauma and Terror all in the same sort of look and they sort of jumped to and started trying to put on more bandages and tourniques and I could feel myself going into but lost shock it was like it's quite hard to explain but the short sharp breasts hot I was breathing like you know 100 breaths a minute it was it was pretty pretty quick and cold clammy hands all that sort of thing and I said boys you're gonna have to get a 5V fluid out only in IB now so it's not busting that out and then by time they get all that ready the another combat first day that came over from the the vehicle Harbor his name even court and he was a combat first Adder from the Infantry team that was with us and he took over the IV process thankfully because I'd be getting an IV into someone who's um got blood loss shock as a as pretty tricky because the the lack of um blood pressure so which makes your veins the right size so getting that in would be tricky um he he nailed that and the guys are like what next what next what do you want us to what do you want us to do now and I was like oh some some morphine to be good eh so but sorry until that point until Stephen arrives to and again he can take over give that qualification you're directing everything you're conscious enough to be following your own medical training that to direct your own treatments is just it feels a bit surreal but again it's that thing of the training takes over and distracts you to a point of the reality of the situation implications that's right yeah and the only thing I can put that down to is two things is uh the training itself was obviously very very good and it allowed me to identify the issues and signs and symptoms of what I I required obviously my legs are gone that's that's a no-brainer but Link's gone is actually not going to kill you it's the blood loss that'll kill you so identifying what that looks like what that feels like not feels like probably looks like on signs and symptoms when you get taught it with something that was coming through to me quite obvious it's funny when you when you taught something you don't quite unders not understand it but you don't you can't identify it in a training simulation you can't really do that you have to like scenario base the training and then when it actually happens to like oh this is this this is what this is and whether that's you know playing a sport or learning a new skill a guitar or whatever or whether it's first aid training it all sort of falls into place and you sort of know what the flow on effects are if you don't do this or provide any mitigating issue factors the other thing was adrenaline is that's the other aspect of it and I think adrenaline would have been an overdrive he probably would have been able to register it on my breath but at the same time it was something that was able to keep me be perfectly conscious and secondly like good cognitive function so I could you know process what was happening and try and instruct and it was something that I was dealing with because of the amount of adrenaline I had and you then quite rightly asked for that morphine did that give you sufficient pain relief a little bit like um I remember feeling it kicking in so you start to feel a little bit sort of sort of comfort in it the pain was still there but it was not as intense it was sort of dulled but that it was still there and then you know they give me a bit of that and then they put me under the stretcher started bunding me up and put put on like five 20ks I think call up a um doing the bandages I was being a pain in the ass kept sitting up and and they kept pushing me back down because I wanted to check if the bandages were on properly and all that sort of thing so it probably wasn't the best patient but they were doing everything exactly right and you know I put hands down put it put it up to their ability their skills and what they were doing it's the reason why I'm able to talk to you but they picked me out and they put me under the stretcher so they can carry me to where the vehicle Harbor is where the helicopters are coming and um well hopefully coming and carrying me along and I'm joking about losing brand new boots and stuff like that and you know just having a bit of a laugh How Lucky I Am to get out of here and get to go home so early and I'm a bar and I could I could tell that the guys were you know were hurting you know mentally you know having the trauma of this happen to me is obviously an effect that you can cause an effect you can see it for every injured person severely injured person it's got to be you know 15 to 20 people that are affected in some way to somewhat you know that's not normal so and it's you know not every day you you witness something like this so to have that happen I could also see that they were some of them were traumatized in their own in their own way you can't put a number on it but like a degree of it it's obviously all on a spectrum so there were some guys that were crying carrying a stretcher and things like that which is human response and and very very acceptable given what it what was going on because yeah I thought I was gonna die oh I'm sorry I didn't think I was going to die then but they might have thought I might have gonna die and that's and 100 could happen you know you never know and so I was like oh guys this guy's like I'll be fine or something like that it was quite aware of what I was saying so I'll be fine I'll be fine it'd be sweet I'll just go to the Paralympics or something like that and yeah that's got weird and I said well I won't be in it won't be in the green and gold it'll be in the black and white being being a kiwi wanting to represent New Zealand and they said I suppose you can walk to the chopper then so in that moment you know that that sort of dark human goes a little bit you know a little bit darker but I think it's a great a great aspect of people or group of people that are going through difficult times to to draw on on humor to connect and to try and to get through it I think is is um and I I think I think it's a great thing but I don't I don't think it's uniquely Anzac or Australia New Zealand I think it's anyone who's going through a tough time you know it's a great great tool that we can use I think we're Aussies and Kiwis are quite good at it and I wouldn't say it's Unique to us but yeah yeah the dark humor as a coping mechanism is very prevalent and it's obviously something you could use in that moment and setting them up to abandon you the threat of representing New Zealand at the Paralympics and obviously we'll get to the paralympic side of things for you but it's also um I think a great Testament to you as well that you weren't just trying to tell jokes to lift your own spirits but you're looking at the team and going I you can sense that this will stay with them and it's not just about you it's about everyone here and your cracking jokes to lift the wider morale of the team because they're also not going to really have much of a transition with this moment I guess because you're going to be shipped off you're going to be treated you're going to be evacuated when stable all that stuff and then send it to rehab they're not going to see you for some time and so you're leaving them with a great funny Lasting Impression before you go off to doing what you need to do yeah that's right and dumb to this point you know I think these Choppers are on their way they're I'll be here any moment and carry me along and then those boys laid me down next to the vehicles and I up until this point I said before that I didn't think I was going to die at all like it was more something was happening all the time something new in the first day of process was happening to to advance my my recovery in a way and it wasn't until they laid me down I was like man like we finished here like there's nothing more that we could do nothing more that's when I realized that I was like oh man like I'm I'm actually probably gonna die here this is this is where it is like this is where I'm at like there's nothing more we can do and I knew that along with that helicopter would take the closer I would come to death and getting onto that Chopper was was the next phase and it was waiting we had to wait for that phase to come and so Paul pitching again and I said mate you're gonna have to go on my laptop and print off some letters letters to my my family uh death letters to say that I wasn't coming home and it was was really that was really hard to do he was only 19 at this stage and I think it I was aware of the weight of that that burden on to him and I don't know if he he understood it as much as I did because I actually thought I was going to die but he was probably a little bit more optimistic than I was and um that was something that was I was very I would say affected by it was something that I was very much aware that what I'd done or what I'd said was was probably going to stick with him forever um and you know it still sticks with me and probably still sticks with him but thankfully uh the Choppers rocked up so I'm like three or four minutes after I finished what I said there so as you said you know the boys picked me up slipped me into the chopper and it was there was no good pie it was just get get out of here type thing and off we go and close the door and then took off and it beelined back to town which is like a 40-minute flight so they have this thing called the Golden hour the golden hour to get a a tragically wounded person from their location of injury to a higher level Medical Center a hospital uh within the within one hour it significantly increases their survivability so and we were outside that um just due to the flight time and obviously the radio and transmissions and all that sort of thing so by time the radio's got there and the Choppers took off it was it was going to be outside that gold now by time I got back which is obviously another dangerous point about where where being where we were as well and we knew that so yeah it was just pretty day at work you could say definitely the shittest of days at work and I guess we'll talk before Curtis about how there was when and the moment it happened or the moments after it happened you would focus on the next identification of treatment the next thing the next thing and recognizing signs of symptoms and just dealing with that the same way when you guys are looking for IDs or is this a case weapon or not you'll just identifying the symptoms or you might say or sign cash weapons and your brain just going through the process going through the process and then you'll have a whirlwind of activity of surgery of transportation is there a moment that stands out in your memory overseas or back at home when it slows down and you can sit with you that okay my life is now going to be this instead of that because you're only 24 at this stage you're a young bloke and it is a dramatic life change and you've as we'll get to shortly you've transformed it into something truly remarkable but at that point you don't know that is there a moment that kind of hits you a little bit later on I go through town cap get traded then bounce through and then into Germany and then I come home from Germany to Brisbane and I'm in in the Royal Brisbane Hospital recovering after all my surgeries are pretty much done and my wounds are closed up and all it is now to do is heal and I spoke before about the injury to my wrist and it meant that I was sort of bed bound to where I needed nurses and and carers to to move me about and to push me around to or move the bed into the X-ray I couldn't jump into a wheelchair and unless they helped me into it and it was about three weeks after I got back my wrists was still injured it was in a splint but it was healed enough to allow me to move from the bed onto the wheelchair on my own without any assistance moving myself was like obviously an independent step a lot of people talk about when when they get injured or something happens or they lose their car they lose their independence they don't have that Independence to do things and that's what we should try and do as fast as possible get get the independence back and you know I was trying to do that but then I had this realization when I put my bum in the chair I was like man like I'm now a disabled person I'm not who I was before and that'll never change like it'll I'm now someone else I'm now a part of this club the disability club and it sort of dawned on me that I was never going to be the Curtis I was before and you know you could say the same about every person and every second ticking by that we no longer who we are before from the past but now but this specifically was like this overwhelming feeling of loss this overwhelming feeling of identity gone and it was really difficult for me you know being an active young 24 year old that was looking for the next adventure and doing some physical things and and yeah all that sort of thing was was now gone and it was really hard like really difficult for me to to come to terms with I was traumatized by that and um luckily my girlfriend and now wife um Rachel was there with me and she sort of got me through that right at that moment she was there and she said oh I think we should go after Physio and then do our best there and see what's going on and see how you can do how how what you can do in order to sort of progress along I was like okay off we go went off to Physio did probably 10 minutes or if that probably not even actually it was probably shorter more like two or three minutes and went back to my room and just felt like crap and I was just sitting there wanting like feeling very sorry for myself and and um and then we're actually all right let's let's set a goal and let's get something you can work towards let's get something that that pushes you each day that it's not it's not unachievable like you know I think that's really important to remember that if you set a goal has to be reasonable has to be achievable otherwise you'll never never reach it and there's no point in doing it in the first place and how many times do people you know set goals that are unachievable and feel like they've wasted so much and that was really important to remember and I sort of sat there and thought about it I was like oh probably I might might be able to get better enough to get my prosthetic legs on for when the guys get home three months later so I was like well I'll try and set that one that was like well how do I do that and an important thing that I've just read recently which is something that I've been living by but I didn't really put it into words in this book called Atomic habits you might have it or know of it by I think it's James Clear James Clear yeah and it highlights the importance of process for goals goals are important that that's what you achieve but actually to get the new process and the process is the most important part of a goal and if you don't set that out and clearly identify your little benchmarks with little Milestones that that is the most important part of achieving the goal now it's been put into words for me like an unarticulate it a bit better so I set out you know what do I only do I need to get strong I need to get more my balance right I need to get my my wounds closed all that sort of stuff so I had to identify the road all down and made that process and then I realized that right that's what I'm going to do so by time I was at the end of hospital I was doing like 10 hours of physio a day there was nothing else for me to do it was strong as Federal I'd put on more weight because I lost so much in my healing process and I was ready to get get on my legs and and that's that's what happened I got him probably like eight days before the guys got home so it was a pretty quick turnaround but at the same time it was it really uh cemented to me the importance of setting those goals and then obviously having those processes as well to get them done and another veteran on this podcast Dr Dan pronkers used the analogy or had you eat an elephant and the answer is one bite at a time and that's something that you've got that smaller goal to work towards is be ready the guys and have that reunion and I want to ask you about that but then I guess you also with fantastic Rachel by your side you then gradually escalate that to the Paralympics and para canoeing and it's something that back in 2006 you weren't tossing up could join the Army could become an Olympic Athlete it's uh out of this world kind of goal to represent your country on that scale so how do you go from nailing that first goal of being ready to see the guys and how does that go and then I guess how do you take that to the super successful Outdoor Adventure sporty career you've forged since then so the reunion was was interesting I had a few issues with the legs with nerve problems because now I wear Prosthetics on parts of my legs that you don't usually bear and wait and and having those nerve issues held me back about so I had crutches and there was a wheelchair at the ready and I could only walk like three or four hundred meters and it was hard but at the same time it was it was a really rewarding to actually achieve what I'd set out and set to to do but also I could show that I was still Curtis I was still me I was still wearing the uniform or the same uniform as what what they they were wearing when they got home and that was awesome that was an amazing feeling to have that happen but it also identified to me because I got to march in the welcome home parade a couple days later and it sort of was this sense of closure that that chapter of My Life as a combat engineer was now done my deployment had finished I achieved it I went there I'd done the role um you know I come home obviously a few limbs less but I got a sense that I was I completed I I was I was satisfied with my contribution to that and I'll talk about that a little bit later on with what happens in Afghanistan um last year but that the the sense of of that closure to me and that completion was definite it was it was like full stop move on what's next like what is next and there was a period where I was like man what do I do like how do I do this should I how like how I've never been a professional athlete I've never been down that path yet played a lot of sport but not at the high high performance level it was all foreign to me and you know obviously what I'd say on the stretcher had bleaked out a little bit and people were talking about it and getting in touch and still very keen on representing Australia sorry New Zealand and as I sort of progressed down that path and doing some trials in New Zealand and displaying talent to them what they were keen on I then realized that the further I would move away from Australia the harder that goal to become a paralympian would be and because the support networks here in Australia for for wounded veterans from combat is is very good in my opinion from my experience and I'm not speaking on everyone's specifically my experience I was very well looked after I had an amazing Co at the time who was very aware about what I wanted to do but also would like ring up every two days and be like hey man what's going on what have you been up to like double bar and I was like oh this is what's going on but like every two days like I get I felt like I was still a part of the military even when I was in hospital he'd come and visit me when I record and it just made me feel like I was connected to who I was and sometimes that doesn't happen if if you're disconnected from Who You Are you then get more lost and that's that's really really important to remember then I realized as I said I sort of the penny drops that I might have to compete for Australia because the organization here in Australia paddle Australia now or Australian economy at the time was a big organization they had more resources more coaches more better training facilities by Van it was sort of a no-brainer looking back but at the time it was like oh man like this is not what I said I was going to do and I'm generally a person of principal and integrity so I'll try and do what I say I'm going to do then I started to realize that you know it is it needs to be done and um so I picked up the paddle in late 2013. um after getting involved with like veterans Charities mates the mates we do a big kayak from Sydney to Brisbane got involved and realized that you know paddling is what I want to do and so I moved down to the Gold Coast just after Christmas or just after New Year's in 2014 and and got stuck in and you know went round in circles which is not a good thing for Sprint kayak who's meant to go on a straight line um couldn't steer the boat very well didn't understand you know um the actual scientific nature of of high performance sport there's a lot of measuring um there's lots of commitment early mornings hard work you know sweating it out it was was rough but at the same time I was very committed and my coach Andrea would um she was very much like a sergeant she's quite strict she was very like you if I'm here for you you show up like type thing it sort of reignited that military sort of discipline for routine and not Perfections probably not the right word but a high standard yeah professionalism yeah I think's probably the best word for it because you know you rocked up with your stuff you rocked up you know she was on the water ready to go once the clocks start struck six it was watches go went off and if you're not there you get left behind so it's just what it is and that's the punishment of not being ready and not having you watch all your water bottle or go to the toilet before you get on all that sort of stuff and it was just the same as the military you know you meant to have everything you meant to be where you're meant to be dressed in the right stuff with the right gear and with the idea that you're going to do a set task so that was the same as as a sport for me so that was something that I sort of thrived in I was very aware of what was required of me but also my obligations and my required from from the coach and Andrea was was really good at um helping me get through or learn how to do something I've never done which is at the same time is really difficult to try and find the energy because learning something new is probably it's so art in terms of especially when it's physical that's it's pretty rough but it was like I said it I I thrived and I quite enjoyed it and I wondered you and Rachel marry so that was in 2019 a few years after what I'm talking about now but we were over in Canada after the Invictus games in 2017 and that's what I proposed so she'd been with me through thick and thin and you know supported me and enabled me and and helped me through the hard times and the good times as well and I don't think there's any other reason not to not to marry someone you know it's someone who's going to stick with you and I hope I've supported her just as much as she's done me so um you know I think we make a good good team oh it certainly sounds like it mate and what you've done in the paralympic setting is Sensational you in 2014 I read Australian paragonuers of the year and we just see your star rise and Rise through Rio de Janeiro and Tokyo paralympic games you've mentioned Invictus various paracanu World Cups and World Championships and that kind of thing you had to adjust as well the type of paddling that you were doing as well face new challenges there and you're still going with Paris paralympic games 2024 in your site you more than lived up to this very outlandish promise you made on a stretcher in Afghanistan it's Sensational congratulations yeah thanks Alex it's yeah it's been been a real trip and you know this year uh in August it was 10 years since since the day and you know to think back it feels like another life you know I'm I'm now Curtis McGrath athlete paralympian and Veteran but I don't feel like Soldier anymore it's it's a weird sort of Disconnect and I spoke before about what happened in Afghanistan last year in 2021 and I got a lot of questions because it happened just before I went to the paralympic games and obviously media and there was a lot of access to me and got a lot of questions about you know what happened to the full to the Taliban regime in Afghanistan and I had a lot of friends and I saw it on social media and a lot of sort of media Outlets were saying how angry veterans are about you know the the disappointing nature of the fall of that but for me I was I I said it before it was just great I was I completed my mission I was happy with my contribution I'd done my job and I'd left that behind in probably 2013 right at the beginning but just that you know a couple months after after I got out of hospital and found myself leading down the sports path I'd come to terms with it moved on and I think um you know you can't can't hold hold everyone's hand forever you've got to let them go and let them do it figure out themselves and unfortunately it's happened the way it has um and hopefully they can find peace and prosperity in the future regardless of who's in government there but you know in the sense of completing a mission and doing my part and whatever that may be is um I was very content with with my contribution regardless of the outcome in the end so and I do thank you Curtis for speaking with us today because as you say there your life is very much in this sphere now in the military is is in your past so to speak and although it's interesting that I guess you look down at your legs there's possibly that very visible reminder of Afghanistan in your time in the military just becomes as well I can imagine your new normal your you know it's just by your day-to-day existence now and the military side of things is the inevitable backstory um the trigger for your current life but do you feel like the veteran part of you that still is in your mind day to day or is it something you've moved on from or like you said it's the next chapter so to speak because this is a story you have told a lot of times I'm sure you're sick of telling it thank you again for coming on this show but it's uh it's this interesting thing where your heads you're not letting yourself be in the past your very future and present Focus but you're also anchored to your past in a way yeah yeah I think um what you said is 100 right it changed who I was and I've come to terms with that change and I think you can't let the past Define you in a way in which holds you back let it enhance you let it let you learn from whatever mistakes Triumph tribulations tragedies all that sort of stuff they all need to enhance who you can become and and open one door closes another door opens and if you can see the way in which hopefully I I can portray is there's so many opportunities out there for the veteran Community to to go on and be not a not a soldier but to be someone who's who's using what they learned what their experiences they gain from the military to to become something great something that's fulfilling I probably should say not not great maybe fulfilling I think is the right word because if you have that meaningful engagement and and opportunity to to fulfill yourself in that way or whatever it is a hobby a sport a job a family education whatever it is there's there's so many ways in which you can become a better person of yourself and I think if we continue to to grow and make the most of the opportunities and what you've are ahead of us is is the best way to look at it people don't you know obviously forget about the past I think that's really important we always need to remember to learn and grow and whether it be you know a horrible day in Afghanistan in August or be you know a time where there's a family loss or or a a Family Birth you know it's it's there's so many things that create who we can become but at the same time we have to grow from somewhere and the seeds get planted in our past and we grow into who we can become well I think those are valuable insights and life lessons that we can all apply to our lives no matter what the detail is or the scenario is so it is always a pleasure to hear from someone who has gone through something so significant and just see how they've so wonderfully transform that around them so thank you for all you do Curtis not just representing Australia and I'm glad you're representing us and Dot NZ at that sporting level but just thank you as well for being so willing to put yourself and your story out there because it's a great example of show don't tell it's that the lessons are in there like you've spelled them out there beautifully at the end but it's all just there on the page for what you've gone on and done and that's just something many will find so aspirational so thank you for being so willing to share yeah thanks Alex since she's been pleasure I'm Alex Lloyd and you've been listening to life on the line that was my conversation with Curtis McGrath and my thanks go to Curtis for his time in coming on the show this was the final veteran conversation for 2022 but stay tuned for this year's final episode Christmas on the line volume 5. this season we've passed the 250 podcast Milestone Curtis says veteran conversation number 136 but when you add all the multi-part conversations the bonus episodes the panel discussions the other specials and miniseries it adds up quickly the team at thistle Productions is proud and privileged as always to bring you these remarkable stories thank you all for continuing to listen to know when we're back with season seven make sure you're following us online we're at life on the line podcast on Instagram Facebook and YouTube at lot on Twitter and at thistle Productions on LinkedIn our website is www.lifeonthelinepodcast.com subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode including our return in mid-2023 life on the line is brought to you by Alex Lloyd Angus Horden Thomas K and Sharon maskel dare of thistle Productions artwork is by Mark Thacker of big cat design our theme music is by Dan van werkhoven thank you for listening and lest we forget [Music] thank you [Music] [Music] foreign [Music]