192. Paramount Plus Pulls Prodigy

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Celeste star twin till all are one and of course the stupendous indomitable genjin proc yo what up and it has been it has been a heck heck of a heck of a hecking Time guys um I just want to like right now it's it's June this is June of of 2023 um we're we're almost a 10 years on the doing the show and that's weird um obviously we should talk more about that like when we actually hit 10 years but the fact that we are approaching that Milestone is terrifying it's a lot yeah terrifying feels right I mean gen's only been with us for six but still I've been doing this for six years what you you came on at the beginning of 2017 it's 2023 you've been doing it for like and a half years time doesn't have to do that to me how dare it I mean have you thought about how long you've been doing stormwood nope don't want to well if we go to nerd.com stormwood and we go okay let's take a look back let's take a look back at things so oh my God so so so you've been doing campaign 2 for about a year and a half Jesus and that feels weird campaign one started four years ago okay okay happy fiveyear stormwood adversary well it uh that'll be next next year because it was April of 2019 so you've been the four years you've been doing uh stormwood Still d yeah that's a that's a lot of storm I don't know if you know this but we've done three seasons of the meat grinder yeah yeah no I remember that too that's pretty uh that's equally pretty wild season 3 is coming out right now but we recorded that whole thing last September it was September we are we are recording a whole new season in September just a few months so you know that's we're getting time is passing and whether we're prepared for it or not you know don't like it don't like it you don't like it it's yeah I'm I'm not a fan oh anyways anyways speaking of things we not a fan of Paramount plus uh besides can canceled four shows this week and immediately pulled them one of which is Star Trek Prodigy um and within days like it is already gone off the service like they announced it and they didn't even give people time to like get in one last rewatch it was just we're we're taking it down we're it's gone yeah it was literally just hey we're getting rid of this and it it is it is now gone you cannot watch Star Trek Discovery you can watch Discovery I meany Prodigy you can watch it internationally in some markets and uh there are ways to purchase half of the Season here I think Prime you can still buy the whole season maybe not um but it's there is uh only the first half of the season's available on like iTunes and most other platforms and only the first half only the first 10 episodes of the 20 episode season are available for physical release and there's no indication that a physical released of the second half of season 1 is coming and more importantly um season 2 is in post production yeah the show there are episodes there are completed episodes and for a second season then there and now we don't even know we don't even know if they're going to be posted anywhere and it's the HBO thing all over again well and and Paramount advertises itself as the home of Star Trek but there's a whole canonical series that is no longer on that Network yeah a big selling point of the platform is all of Star Trek lives here well not anymore it doesn't yeah it's well and it's the whole thing is just really really really really um alarming because like Not only was Star Trek Star Trek project was was pulled several other shows were pulled um at the same time uh including the um the the gree prequel rise of the Pink Ladies um but also Queen of the Universe which um was that Graham Norton uh hosted like drag show like drag competition right their finale literally aired this week it was the the finale for the reality show was only available on the service for a couple of days before the entire thing got pulled yeah now it's just gone yeah yeah cuz it's grease rise of the pink lady Star Trek Prodigy Queen of the Universe and the game which was a um Revival of uh of sitcom the the game which ran for two seasons on Paramount plus uh and they're just gone and this is like I don't know Star Trek fans we're completionists we want to have the whole thing and like it's one thing for a show to not be available on the air anymore which which is bizarre to begin with to think about because like historically Star Trek keeps running right like you can watch all of the 9s Trek on some cable channel right now you know what I mean like it's you can go out and you can find on syndication you can find old episodes of the original series and of all the 90s shows and uh but and and we thought in the Modern Age like with the streaming like there is no there is no place that you can go watch this legally right now for us like the second half of the Season as far as I know there's um no way for me to go legally watch the second half of this yeah I might have to go pick up the physical release of the first half cuz I'm because again I there's I I I know we've said it before I've especially said it repeatedly I don't trust streaming services uh if there is a show that I love and there is physical media of it I feel it's my duty to go out and purchase it because that thing that I love might disappear there's a reason why I own the entirety of Deep Space 9 on DVD and the original series I haven't picked up nextg yet um but like my plan was to eventually you know pick up every Star Trek show but of course that's not necessarily possible in the the modern day and age of streaming platforms not putting out physical releases of shows and you know it's interesting cuz growing up like there were physical releases of stuff but it was far more common for people to just record everything off of TV and Star Trek fans that archive shows that way right like right Star Trek fans would just archive entire series on VHS tapes and um I think like that's the thing is like a lot of Star Trek fans came up doing that and unfortunately uh I think a lot of us are just going to turn to piracy to Archive our shows because there's not really a better way in in a lot of cases so um yeah it's it's very unfortunate the streaming services are kind of forcing hands and like this well they're doing it to save like it's I think they're doing to save I think they're also doing it to spite the writers absolutely oh yeah right now for sure and it's also uh uh one of my personal favorite YouTubers Jesse jender uh pointed out the timing of The Prodigy announcement seems almost dead on with uh um right after a really truly like 10 out of 10 uh strange new worlds episode aired maybe in the hopes of distracting Star Trek fans with this really good strange new worlds episode to take Prodigy away and and uh not to name drop too much but another friend of our show Sean Orange from famicom Dojo was specifically talking about how frustrating it is that Prodigy is like the only current Trek that he can show his kids it and like it really was a good show for introducing a new generation to Trek it it doesn't start out feeling especially Star Trek flavored but it slowly eases in those Trek plot points and ideas and it's such a I feel like it would be such a great uh I can't say personally because of course I I grew up marinating in Star Trek but I feel like for like a younger generation this is a great way to get them on board yeah pun intended I mean I grew up I grew up with in in a world where the only Star Trek that existed was the original series and the animated series and so I as a child watched those on repeat um until nextg came out right so it's I don't know like it's it's so frustrating um and it really what the problem is is that once now that they've pulled it I no longer trust Paramount plus like that's the thing is that the trust is broken now like once you do that as a network why why am I supposed to trust you with my money now like I'm am I as as a Shepherd for this this thing that I love because and yeah and unfortunately like they probably don't care about your about the trust of their Watchers but here's the thing is I have kept so I know that like they they try not to go too long without a Star Trek airing but I have kept my Paramount plus sub subscription since it was a CBS all access subscription I I signed up when Pro when Discovery aired I signed up and I kept my service month-to month and now um it's now knowing that these shows can just disappear I am highly debating that when the next time there is a Hiatus between shows of canceling my service and then maybe signing up again when we complete the next season of something which means that is I mean I know that I'm just one subscriber but that is you know months of my of my monthly payment that they won't get you know and true and if enough of us start doing that that's going to really hurt their bottom line because because a lot of us have kept like CU like a lot of us who signed up in the early days of CBS all access signed up and didn't cancel in the hopes that we would help make sure that Star Trek would stay in production right that we would keep Star Trek on TV and so like now it is a now I know that like my loyalty as a customer will not be rewarded that you know my loyalty as a fan means nothing so I I I am seeing less and less value in giving them my money and so that's and I'm not talking about like stealing the new TRS I will do it all legally but I will perhaps cancel for long periods of time and then play catchup later instead of making sure I immediately watch everything when it airs yeah that's what I truthfully uh I sign I didn't even sign up for my CBS all access account until there were two seasons of discovery so I I know I understand where you're coming from I was not contributing until but then there was enough of the show that I wanted to get a better feel for it and I've been yeah I've been really enjoying I've enjoyed Star Trek I've enjoyed um like all of the Trek shows I've enjoyed uh the Transformers cartoon with a non-binary robot an awful lot um I hate watch Evo so like I was getting my money's worth out I watch I watch the american ghosts that's really good yeah the American Ghost that's really good but like yeah I'm in I'm I'm right there with you this is I mean that's why I'm I'm literally I'm literally canceling my HP my Max account right now like it's for this very reason it's I will sign up again when our flag means death comes back that's yeah that and I do a I do the exact same thing um with peacock mainly because like they don't have a lot of stuff that I'm very interested in peacock and I only I only go there because they um they're the only service that um live streams the Eurovision contest I was thinking of temporarily doing them so that I could catch up with AP Bio and then drop it again yeah so I pay for it I PID on the ad selected tier so actually peacock is so cheap with ads that it's like I keep it around because like I think it's like less than seven bucks with ads yeah and um we like we've been re-watching Columbo on there and like freey doesn't have all the specials like all the post season 7 stuff or season 8 whatever um while all of that's on peacock and so like we've been like we we watch it there and then um like actually I think it's are we paying for without ABS I don't know um we are we're not paying peacock is hardly any money um and also like uh we like the psych movies so every time like you know I want to encourage them making more of those and Pokerface is phenomenal yes I have to catch up but also like we watched Top Chef um and so like we just finished the season of Top Chef and we watched that through peacock and like when resident alien comes back on sci-fi we're going to watch that because we just canceled our sling subscription um because that was probably our most expensive streaming thing cuz we've been in my household we were just going through our budget and we spend like I think a 100 like it's not over $100 a month on streaming services and um the big one was sling because sling we paid 45 bucks a month for because it's live cable oh and uh until we signed up for PE peacock was kind of like the last thing that like suddenly all the shows we were watching on sling we were suddenly getting on a streaming service um and so like cuz like we would I guess when Doctor Who come well Doctor Who's going to come to Disney plus so I don't need to have um I don't yeah I don't need because I watched uh like I watched all the Sci-Fi channel stuff Top Chef I watched Doctor Who I used to watch um Kevin can [ __ ] himself on AMC uh that show's amazing but I watched that like but a lot of the stuff's on peacock and so when I finally gave up and paid for peacock and then like knowing that doctor who's not going to be on BBC America anymore it's going to be on Disney plus then it like it's like yeah I'm paying like I I like having I liked having like the live television because like you could have like live news like get CNN during like a national emergency or something like that but I do actually have broadcast television where I currently live and it's just like uh but like we like we have Amazon Prime we have we Prime Netflix peacock uh Paramount plus Disney plus um Apple TV plus uh like it's if there's a major streaming platform we've had it and so I'm uh we like uh probably going to reup Stars pretty soon briefly to watch [Laughter] Outlander but yeah yeah sorry sorry added me to D it it it brings up a bigger um image of like um you know streaming services should be more mindful um of their their audiences because like if we want to like we can drop them at at the you know at any point we we like you don't have to have any kind of loyalty to a service these days like I sure don't I can reinstall a Plex server on one of my computers right exactly like like I just I'm going to throw this out there I know this is kind of this might go without saying but I see a lot of people discuss the problems they have with streaming services and I feel like not enough people point this out I just want to remind everyone the reason that the streaming platform seem so promising the reason that everyone was so quick to cord cut and jump to Netflix was because there was like one thing this one big streaming thing that you could sign up for and you'd get tons of shows on and then because of capitalism all of these companies that gave streaming rights to Netflix were suddenly like oh why do we have a middleman when we could do this ourselves and then they all decided they needed to have their own freaking streaming and I know we're not putting the I know we're not putting the tooth paste back in the tube I know that's impossible but this is this is all happening because companies got let greed make them act stupid yeah and those and those profits that they were enjoying those are going to keep going down and down and you know what I'm I'm not going to say I'm an expert but I'm willing to bet in the long run it would have been a lot more sustainable to just keep letting Netflix have their [ __ ] well here's the thing is like when we started out this whole thing there was Netflix and there was Hulu and Hulu was a joint venture between you know NBC Fox and Disney right like there were three companies and then when and this is the problem with Media consolidation is that when um Disney bought Fox it went from being this platform owned by three companies and like peacock launches because Disney buys Fox right because then suddenly NBC is no longer like and NBC Universal wants out of Hulu like they want to get bought out because you know now it's effectively they are on it's a platform that is effectively owned by by that they are a minor minority holder um and it's so and and CBS held out if CVS had bought in to Hulu with the other networks maybe this wouldn't be so bad here this is my problem so like historically like someone could say to me it's like historically you know used to watch shows and they'd air and then they'd be gone and we've been spoiled by this you know ability to Archive things and have physical releases but the major difference here is is that historically when this when we lived in that ephemeral World starting in like the late' 70s and the early 80s this thing called the VCR came out and if you wanted to save something you loved save the show you were watching you could and every person could and every person had the power to legally legally archive their entertainment and we no longer live in that world as we no longer have easy devices you could you could go to like almost any electronics department in any like department store hardware store and find blank tapes uhhuh you could go to Walgreens and buy blank tapes yeah they were everywhere they were they were literally everywhere yeah it's you go out and you buy a blank tape and you just record your show yeah I yeah it's I've I've watched I have Demolition Man on a VHS sometime where that I recorded off off of a free preview of HBO um that I watched many times growing up um it's it it's just so frustrating because now we live like if and where they consider like if you record off of a streaming service that's considered piracy now and it's like it's now that's legally penalized so not only and that would be fine if gave us a way to legally access the archives you know what I mean like they and they were that was the promise of streaming right that like okay you can watch the show and you can watch it whenever you want it's there except now they've taken that away and so I'm now yeah exactly now it's not going to be it might not be there it might be and now I don't trust them to keep it there it just feels it feels like um the issue with the right to repair for me you know yeah I can see that we're not allowed to do things ourselves well and you know what even if they just put out physical releases we could buy yeah that's all they need to do they don't even have to be long-term releases there are plenty of show releases which are out of print and deep on The Collector Market but like yeah if you want to make it if you want to make money off of my thing fine take my damn money you were taking my money every month I was paying you money to in case I wanted to watch something yep and now I can't and so now I'm asking yeah no it's yeah no it's it's infuriating we like there's all there's all these things that are we just don't have a good way of doing of of doing these like archiving all these important pieces of popular culture [ __ ] I I know I I [ __ ] about this all the time but I'm going to do it again the only legal way for you to watch the original Gundam uh Trilogy movies the the movie compilations is the upload on Netflix because the home video release doesn't have the original 1981 audio on them but Netflix does I can't buy that anywhere no really yeah I it's I I'm so frustrated because I just want to enjoy my shows and you know what sometimes I watch things at a kind of leisurely pace and maybe I I'm not binging through everything but it really sucks having this added pressure of it hey that thing you like you better enjoy it right away because we might just rip it right the freck away from you with no warning and this piece of of culture this piece of shared media that meant something to people is is just going to be gone and it's so some [ __ ] who has never made art in their life but sure profits off the backs of other people's art can get a tax right off yeah fing garbage I think we've covered that about as far as yep we're going to take it um yep so uh speaking of uh streaming services and art of oh no Marvel's Big new series secret Invasion premiered this last week and uh there's a little bit of hubub due to the fact that uh people uh it's come out that AI art was used in the show's intro and um some people are immediately angry I I think I'm a bit more empathetic to why people are angry like I know I I it might not be that big a deal but I I understand where people are coming from in the case of this is Disney they're a gajillion dollar organization and I think for a lot of people especially with the timing during the writer strike this sure looks like doing a big bit of Art and not paying people for it but you see that's the thing is that's not what happened like that's um the the opening to the show uh was actually they hired um an effects house which uh a graphic designer was involved and they did like um use AR to generate the images and they used AI tools for some of it but the the Disney pretty much paid about as much as they normally pay that's really the should be the story here and it it was kind of like in this particular case this is actually what we want AI art to be used for where artists got together with the creative and used AI tools to create the images that um the the creators of the show wanted to use for the opening an artist was actively involved in um using the AI tool to shape it output now I it's true I do not know about the training model it was used on I do not know what data was used to do that and there is and obviously like there is a conversation to be had there and that's a general AI art ethics conversation and if you're opposed to that and it turns out that the training model used art without you know anyone's permission like that's a separate argument right that's that's fine but in the supplanting artists and supplanting jobs that's not what happened here like it was like there were active creative people at an effects house that was you know was using this as a tool to do the job and they got paid so it's the so so I think the real only qualm is just again the the if if your issue with the use of AI art is that it's possible and again I have no information about the AI training data used in this right like if it turns out that the AI are the the training data used to generate the art was sourced unethically that's something to be mad about right that's a general thing but in the the sense of the way the compan the way that this art housee used AI art to generate it for Disney was I believe kind of the ideal situation where this is just another artistic tool a graphic designer has you know what I mean I can agree with that I still think the op looks like ass but like that's not forun that was my first take as well like it doesn't look great but I I liked it but I also I wouldn't have paid money for that like if if I paid someone money for animation and then they gave me that I'd be like can did you did you spend the money can I get it back is that like is that it it it's not good I just I just think it looks like butt I mean I'm just going to look at it right now because you know oh I thought it yeah it's because I watched it when it came out I thought it looked fine I I also watched it when I came out I I didn't like it I still don't like it but I mean here's the the AG old art history tidbit art is subjective I mean yeah very true like don't get me started yeah it's no absolutely true it's it's definitely not my cup of tea also though like I've seen like massively beautiful artistic openings for uh various Marvel things and uh had people you know just remember all the openings for like the Netflix shows that everybody skipped yeah honestly I am a I am deeply opposed to the skip opening button I think that that's an awful thing to have what is the point of view what's the point of view like if you're watching Star Trek and you are not talking along with the opening thing you know if you're watching strange new worlds and you're not going space the final frontier right alongside captain pike I don't know you I don't get you you know you skipped the opening on Cowboy bbop we're not friends I'm just like putting a hard like having the open the the opening thinge with every episode like really just like helps to to really I don't know just like hype you up hype you up andb you with the vibe of the show yes God yeah it's one thing that's always been fantastic especially like with animes it's been really um like I don't know really really good um because I've noticed with like especially ending themes cuz you could have um an episode that is thematically like super different from the previous one and that ending theme still hits yeah yeah like it's amazing the uh God the uh especially the anime Community really like as far as like theme songs go has really uh built around that like the JoJo community and um roundabout by Rush is a in and of itself I mean not by Rush by yes I was gonna say roundabouts by yes funny thing is that you made that mistake but for years I made the mistake of saying it was by Steely Dan so don't worry we've all messed up at one point in my defense in my defense the reason why my brain assumed it was by Steely Dan is because there was this mixtape in the car that I also my brother also drove growing up and um uh growing up it was like in our 20s um but we'd both borrow this one car from my parents and my brother left a bunch of mixtapes in there and there was one mixtape there was one mixtape that my brother had that was exclusively Steely Dan and then roundabout by yes yeah that'll that'll you're going like from Dr Woo into roundabout and but every time I drive around a roundabout I do go the round yes yes wrote that song Yes wrote that song a while on tour while driving around literal roundabouts but yeah yeah I don't know that's there is something I I love artsy Ops but like I also I I one I'm not one of the people who skipped the Netflix openings so yeah I don't know here's here's a a wild point of reference I was just at a wedding this weekend and and they like I have heard anime theme songs used at weddings like in the ceremonies you cannot tell them like don't skip them they're important to people D ding it legitimately uh getting a little far a field but uh that was uh that was uh baby me's like a biggest issue with uh tunami like a lot of a lot of uh G in my generation of weebs really put tunami up on a pedestal but the fact that they didn't play the openings really ticked me off as a kid and it still kind of bothers me honestly losing a huge piece of the show anyway anyways yeah it's uh it's not great like so like the whole thing with the the AI I think that some like here I'm not saying don't be mad about it but I'm saying if you're going to be mad about it be mad about it for the right reason that's fair like it's this is not a situation where we should be mad that like a um like an artist didn't get a job this is a situation where you know if if but if it comes out that the the sourcing of the images and things like that weren't ethically sourced then yeah then that's that's an issue artists got a job it's just a weird job yeah um so that's that's kind of my like my thought is that like let's always just try to keep the Nuance in the conversation important agreeable So speaking of nuance oh what not the word I would use here ha uh last time I saw a Transformers movie uh Transformers rise of the beasts the first attempt to make a full-blown Bay film post Bay I'm I'm only hurt by that because as as you may remember Raina and I did a rewatch of all the bay Transformers movies yeah and I'm as much as this was much more from that school and you could tell lenzo diven whatever the hell his name is was getting his producer uh fingers in things again uh in my opinion to the detriment of the film this is still a more cohesive better put together and like actually gives a [ __ ] about the robots movie than any of the Michael Bay I think 2007 gives a you're I I think you're g i I am a apologist for that movie and I think you're giving it too much credit and curtzman I think did a decent job with that script that's all I'm saying it's there's many things wrong with that movie but I think the script is okay it's a good script I'll I'll give it that but yeah no the there is a there's a lot of things about this movie that don't work I'm not going to pretend it's like some high art but as far as popcorn movies go I feel it was very good definitely not bumblebee good but but it was still steps above any of the Bay movies in my opinion my my one problem is that like is that because they said it in the 90 so setting in the 90s was like if they' said it in the 80s and it would have felt more directly connected to bumblebee great and then we could have like maybe seen some of those characters um just because like I like all of the actors in bumblebee um I agree um like Haley skyfield I would watch like read a dictionary there was a point I was watching multip like cuz I was watching Dickinson and Hawkeye at the same time um like say it but I'm my guess is that Haley Steinfeld and John Cena aren't exactly in their budget that's that's my guess yeah yeah both of their stars have risen yeah but quite a bit since that last movie yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um and there Al yeah okay but um but like I feel like the problem setting it in the 90s and like I I it's this need to still slot to try to find a contrived way to slot it into the um to the uh the 2007 timeline which that's even that but like that's that's where I was talking about Lorenzo divon blah blah blah blah I don't know how to pronounce his name I'm sorry he's the producer at Paramount who's the main person in charge of these movies um Lorenzo has been the one really pushing that this is connected to the 2007 movie yeah when left to his own devices director Stephen capable Jr would not agree that it was related to the 2007 films yeah like he would often try to say it was a reboot only for Lorenzo to interrupt him and insist that it was a prequel yeah and I think that's um I mean it is in in the sense that it's a prequel they did maintain uh Optimus Prime's bloodthirsty personality that uh he's had throughout those movies um I don't want to give too many spoilers uh but I will say that like first off they call it rise of the beasts but first off we don't really see their rise they already exist and then also um most of them are barely in the movie like like we get plenty of air Riser who does exactly what air Riser does if you're a beast wars fan you'll know exactly what air Riser does um and uh I thought Ron Pearlman did a really good job with the material that he had as Primal yeah I will say first off really impressed with him I was disappointed that they didn't bring in Gary chalk because like you know frankly we know the studio doesn't believe that the fans of Beast Wars will have the reverence that uh the G oners will but [Music] um I'm just like so let's let's take a look at the maximals so chor has like what two lines uh he had like four yeah because I was expecting only like two but I was counting I was like oh he's talking more than I expected rhox had like a line Maybe rhox had abline maybe I didn't catch it but David Sab he's got play for the bad guys so the the the terror con he played got more lines than rhox did yeah I did like the fact that they called one of the terrorcons nightbird um that's a deep deep cut um night bird was played by the first openly trans actress in the in the Transformers franchise I was very excited about that I I feel like that's what well okay yeah it's I mean diaper is not even a transformer in the original continuity I know but but they but this was the first but this uh this version of her actress I think no it is great it's just it's like I mean with the names of the bad guys it's like well we need a female bad guy what names do we have nightbird I I hate to break this one to you Trey but nightbird has been retconed into a transformer for like the last 10 years not in the G1 continuity she's been in the G1 comics for uh in the G I'm I'm talking like okay but I'm saying in modern modern lore the G1 Comics the war for Cybertron toy line the cyberverse cartoon she's been a transformer for a while but she is she is Decepticon aligned human-built robot I understand that that's what it was for a long time that's what she is in the generation one continuity family other continuities are the IDW continuity family is separate from the generation one continuity family I you it's that's that's a hard one not not every fan would agree with you on that one TR no it's the G1 continuity family only includes uh the canonical cartoons of uh it it's just limited in what it includes it's only the um the original Transformers cartoon beast wars and Beast Machines and then um some of the Japanese series are like CU they don't have to be a single continuity but some of the Japanese shows then also like Headmasters and uh the the the be the various like Beast Wars Neo and stuff like that and then the only Comics that are included are the Marvel Comics and then the Marvel Comics I know that that's what the standard was for a while but I'm telling you some still lives in this neighborhood there's a lot of people who would not agree with go to tfwiki go to tfwiki.net right now they will separate the IDW continuity family from the G1 continuity family I I I I think you would be if David Willis agrees with me I'm right all right David Willis agrees with me that makes me correct I think you're upset because you left your hometown and things changed and you don't like that it's no I that's that's not at all what's happened it's these are separate continuity families the only thing that crosses all of them is your Unicron and Primus and the Fallen like we're talking like the original 13 who were their Universal singularities those guys yeah anyway so the the back to the maximals um so all we got so all we got were were Optimus primal air Razer rhox and chetor um and then Apink which Apink is such a weird deep cut to a botcon exclusive character like it's not a spoiler to say Apink is in there he's in the opening of the movie um and it's he's he's just Apink like I don't know how to explain how a repaint of an Optimus Prime toy Optimus primal sorry Optimus primal toy um got like like trans metal well it's because they own the name and they wanted to have like an ape thing die to then hand it to the Primal like it it makes sense and he's the one I was about to say I I yeah I think it's a it's a good old case of we had an earlier CG model that's different from the final one we used and we might as well get some use out of it I mean yeah it's because it's the same with why with uh like the I can't 100% prove it but it's the same with uh for months they were saying Starscream was a main character in the Bumblebee movie yeah he didn't end up being there but sure enough there's a really good digital Starscream model that they call Blitz swing and that movie so yeah it's well it's aink is like it's it's just fascinating because all of his previous uh like appearances are like from the 3H Comics like the the convent the botcon exclusive comics and then like later on like like there's some later stuff but that's that's where he comes from it's oh it's it's just amazing that like I was I was like I'm watching this with my wife and you have to understand that Apink is I used to be uh you have to understand from the years uh 2000 to 2003 my roommate was Shawn K of famicom dojo we he was we we lived in a house together including Shawn's massive Transformers collection Shawn was a person who went to botcon and would get the exclusive toys so I knew who Apink was going into this movie like I not I I knew exactly who Apink was and so we're watching this movie I'm like oh it must be Primal and then it like oh it's it's there's that's Apink and I'm was like sitting there in because we went to the drive-in so I'm sitting there in in in our in my truck with my wife and I'm just like did it say Apink like sitting there in pure astonishment that because I like I don't remember if Shawn had an Apink toy but I had seen photos and I I'm very familiar with the the transmetal Optimus primal toy that that was you know based on and I've just going like in my head like aank like it's really funny because I've heard like a lot of movie reviewers like react to this and like talk about oh and like talk about how like oh he's the gorilla with the surfboard I'm like y'all no that was the Optimus primal toy had the the flying surfboard he's just a repaint like he's a but so it was the most bizarre experience and again you know air Razer does what air Razer does every single time so I have to say though I heartily disagree with you about the 90s setting being inappropriate and I'm going to explain to you why where don't cut me off you've been cutting me off a lot in this fit sorry let me finish the 90s setting was extremely appropriate for someone my age especially because when I was growing up the exact Transformers line I had was the G2 uh line directly into Beast Wars so all of my Transformers toys were a healthy mix of the vehicle Transformers including flatnose reissue Optimus Prime and the Beast Wars characters so this was exactly the movie my little kid self always wanted that was Perfection for that for my generation so I actually think the '90s setting was perfect well but what made it the '90s I mean there was a reference to um like a Super Mario Brother game the excellent um music the like heavy use of like we we've been talking just about robots and we've been ignoring like just how much uh Stephen Capel Jr put his love of 90s hipop into the movie and one of the things that I think really stands out is that none of the human leads are white and yeah but I guess the use of that '90s hipop I think really I really like how that pulls things together it's part of the era yeah but how much of that Mo Music was diagetic because like as I this is a strange example but like Guardians of the Galaxy can be set in the current day and use the music of other eras to set the tone and you know the music in the most of the music in the film though was it itic and or you know what I mean like it's I'm saying that like the like yes the use of 90s hip hop in the movie great no complaints do not have any like and I do think it really added to it but I just I feel like we live in an age where there's currently such a retro stuff to the 90s that you could set something you could literally have just changed the subtitle on what year it was and the music would have still felt exactly appropriate you know what I mean maybe I don't know again because of that that G1 to Beast Wars transition and because those were literally the years I got into this uh fandom from I really felt it was appropriate but I feel like that's just a I feel like that makes it just a reference though you know what I mean and not a a part of the story and it doesn't even feel like the year setting is even necessary to the aesthetic elements that you're talking about you know what I mean how much was it needed in bumblebee like valid point I feel like the only my only thought about Bumblebee is that it was when you're trying to shoehorn in a movie Into The continuity setting it prior to the events to allow you to fit like the only reason why I think that any of these are set in the prior years is purely so they can shoehorn the continuity into the 2007 movies I mean and that's the onlyon I'm complaining about it is because I don't there's any I don't think they've put any thought into the continuity of the 2000s movies because they weren't putting any thought into the continuity when they were coming out I I feel like there's been some degree well no but like attempt to justify and tie it in like I think they think that people won't see the movies if they aren't directly connected I think that they're afraid to I I think that I definitely think that there are producers who are afraid to uh touch like saying that the movie idea that cared continu even the movies laughable because you go from movie One Optimus and Megatron hated each other movie two actually Megatron was working for another guy movie three actually Optimus was also working for another guy so they were actually middle management under two other guys yeah it's when I say continuity I don't mean kind of continuity that you and I care about between stories I mean the the kind of continuity that people care about at the fast franchise you know what I mean like where the the where the Casual person sees a connection and doesn't look like the details like you are like thinking of continuity the way you like the way I think about Star Trek you know which is you know not the way that like there's there's continuity and then there's continuity I don't think they care about Canon you know what I mean but anyways that's I actually do like this movie like let's be really clear here like we actually both agree roughly no idea no it's like we actually both roughly agree about the quality of the movie I I just like my only complaint is that like I didn't feel like we had enough maximals in it like it's only two maximals felt like characters um I guess technically three if you count apink's brief scene at the beginning because he did feel like a character but he felt like a character who immediately died um and again opening scene I know that's technically a spoiler but it's in the if it's in the first five minutes it's not much of a spoiler it's setup um I think it was done as a I think the the main reason the maximals are here are so we have a uh it was to test audience's reaction so they can go do a maximals movie later well and that would be great that's my yeah impression my issue with the maximals mostly is that they didn't transform early enough what is this beast machine season 1 um it's that's and and they just didn't have enough like they weren't characters enough like I could have done with like you know they could have like reduced the number of Autobots by one and then giv rhox and cheetor some stuff to do you know what I mean but also and this is the most important thing about the maximals that I did not like and that is they are missing the most important one rat trap yeah that's fair rat trap whose in the G1 continuity's great ant is Ry and these are supposed to be descendants of the Autobots from the future there could have been a familial connection between the new ones and the old ones but actually just more importantly rat trap's the most fun maximal he's he's canonically older than optim is Primal he is the most experienced one of them um and he is small and funny and they could have thrown Scott McNeil some work I I do appreciate where Stephen Capel Jr was coming from though where he said there were a lot of characters he wanted to use and he was just being realistic about what he could fit in the movie yeah and that he had too many characters in the first place I understand I think they should have dropped an Autobot and then given um like I think dropping an Autobot and then giving more lines to the like you know cuz I I I don't think it okay here's the thing I don't want to cut RC because I love RC but her plot functionality versus all the other like Autobots was probably the least you know what I mean like it's because you're not going to cut bumblebee Mirage is there for Mirage needs to be there obviously he's like kind of our bumblebee for this mie I she contributed more than Wheeljack did she did but it's Wheeljack so here's the thing Wheeljack is kind of there as like the local appearing you know what I mean like it's yeah I think whe like I could have done without yeah she was more important than Wheeljack absolutely um I don't know like I feel like that balance could have been done better I do say I loved Peter dinkler just Scourge I love the fact that they effectively combined the two scourges into one character because Scourge in the um G1 continuity of course is a The Herald of Unicron and that's and that this guy gets sent this uh um elements from but then also the best toy ever made called Scourge is of course the repaint of laser Optimus Prime who appeared in uh robots in Disguise the first one uh also known as car robots um that uh that was a black semitruck with a a Longnose semiu that clearly his alt model was based off of that Scourge right so it was fun to like and like and also he was supposed to be an equal to Optimus Prime in that form too so like combining the two scourges into one was actually I thought like a brilliant narrative Choice yeah no I Lov that I also I also loved um honestly my favorite plot point was uh Optimus primal saying when someone was like hey did you like ancient alien guys like build the NASA lines and pyramids and he's like no that's stupid and racist you humans can handle that on your own yeah I loved that that was very good my only real big complaint about the movie and it's not really a big complaint it's just a thought is that Hasbro stop trying to make GI Joe happen uh Counterpoint uh I have not gotten back from my friend Grant in England um Grant I need to know did they changed the card from gi. Joe to action force in your theater I need to know this grant please let me know right now Grant in England you know who you are help me out here all right I think I think that's we've we've bored again enough with uh with Transformers I can talk now again yay well I don't know if either one of us could talk because one last topic on here is across the spiderverse which Celeste saw nope and neither one I didn't see it either I didn't see it yet hey Celeste tell us uh give us your non-spoiler review of across the spiderverse it's good all but seriously um the first spiderverse movie was something akin to a religious experience for me so I didn't know uh if they'd be able to top that but well it's about on par really uh really fun movie with a lot of heart despite the fact that the trailer rightfully shows you that there's uh an even larger gaggle of spider people than last time the movie Very smartly still too many cooks you'd think that you'd think that except for the fact that the movie sorry except for the fact that the movie really really works hard to develop miles and Gwen as characters and despite all these bombastic scenes you get to spend a lot of time getting to know them hell um again I don't without uh any spoilers The Writers made the frankly incredible decision that like the first 10 straight minutes of the movie are just in the Gwen verse like just doubling down on her characterization and giving us more of what she's like and then when we finally bounce back to miles it really feels like this is a proper sequel to his story not just an excuse to have a lot of spider people show up and fear not a lot of spider people do show up um the both of the antagonists of the story both the straightup villain spot and the uh antagonistic Spider-Man of 2099 played by uh the just perfect Oscar Isaac just brings so much to this story and the there's only two things that I've heard as legit negatives for this movie one being how many people forgot that in the intervening years that when it was originally announced that this movie was announced as uh uh across the spiderverse part one because this it this has a cliffhanger okay the ending is a bit of a cliffhanger so um get ready for a bit of a weit but it's a really good film though so I can deal with the Cliffhanger but yeah it leaves on an excellent Cliffhanger and the recent stuff that's come out unfortunately that the production side of the movie sounds like it was a bit of a mess and a whole lot of animators like some some reports are saying around a 100 animators quit the movie just cuz they couldn't deal with the working conditions and that really freaking sucks like this is a beautiful film to look at things are the thing from the first movie they double down on there's a punk Spider-Man uh he's literally drawn as if he's from a like a unofficially published Zen so like he constantly looks like there's pieces of paper cut out around him little letters are appearing and disappearing in his coloration because you know he's Punk Spiderman um and he's Hobie is just so cool it's not even fair uh Daniel Cula lent his voice phenomenal performance uh we get to see just some um just again just some really amazing character moments and also Oscar Isaac's characters plotline may be a not so subtle takedown of [ __ ] fans who try to gatekeep the franchise from newcomers and I also really really love that so uh Sony treat your animators better this that you shouldn't have to hurt people to make art this beautiful cuz it's it's a very good movie it's at least as good as the first one let's just treat our animators better that's my big takeaway go see Spider-Man all right well let's move on to uh well so we're not going to be a vomit hat Steve challenge this episode uh there are many copies of that uh of of here here I'll give you a line the boy who stood in the turbo lift his eyes wide as owls seemed small for his age he'd be about 15 but he sported a hint of auburn hair that crowned his mother's head there you go ah if you know what book that's from WR WR in then that's uh and uh maybe you'll get in the Hall of awesome the current members of the Hall of awesome are as follows they are where's that link to the hall of awesome there we go I have to actually open it up they are Aramis zero Raina and Santi cheesy MCD Chris S Sho the random ramblings man Coran Capo Chris Graham Lily sorus paper Godzilla cavy Minnesota librarian Sean orange ke jur Jo CH an Wonderland arts and Mei SAS Council all right there so technically we did do the F head Steve challenge uh if you don't know what just happened go listen to a different episode I'll explain it all right right so if you're wondering what we're doing instead of that is we are going to do another quiz it's time for Gen and Celeste to take a quiz it's quiz time with yeah and here's your host tror welcome welcome and here our contestants Celeste and gen this episode we are taking a quiz so you know one of the things uh we I so some of us don't didn't get to see every movie again didn't see uh you know Transformers I didn't see uh in across the spiderverse and none of us saw the Flash not a single one of us and of course we all agreed that the only reason someone would see The Flash not should but would see the flash is to see Michael Keaton's Batman am I right yeah I can get behind that all right maybe Sasha Kay but you know I thought well yeah very true I agree with that but uh with that in mind we are going to take a quiz about the 1989 movie Batman again how confident are you feeling right now not very but let's do it hooray all right so this is a this is a question so this is a quiz I've gotten from funtrivia.com it uh is 10 questions it is rated uh as average and the difficulty and the average score that people taking this quiz get is six out of 10 okay okay so here is your first question one of the robbers from the beginning of the movie was talking about a mutual friend quote getting ripped and walking off a roof the other robber said that quote the bat got him what was the name of the friend that fell off the roof no idea was it Frank Krone was it Don hob was it Joe Gibb or was it Johnny gobs I have no idea celest do you have any uh I like the last two I have no idea you like either Joe gibber Johnny gobs I will remember you do have uh three 50/50s you can use throughout this quiz let's 50/50 and I feel confident that's one of those sadly it delited down to Joe gibber Johnny gobs oh my gosh I'm I'm a genius one of those is correct one of them is Johnny gos fin answer correct Johnny gobs hell yeah we totally knew it all along yep all right Johnny gobs all right question number two this is an easier one but if you remember the movie uh if you don't remember the movie uh this won't be easy but uh number two Harvey Dent was the da in Gotham City in this movie he was campaigning to fight a war on crime in Gotham who played Harvey Dent was it Carl Weathers was it regginald Val Johnson was it Ernie Hudson or was it Billy D Williams it was Billy D Billy D was on this one yeah it was Billy Billy Billy that was the one gimme on here love him one of knox's so here's third question one of knox's fellow reporters handed him a sketch of a bat creature wearing a suit on the corner of the picture was the name of the artist who is listed as having drawn the picture is it HR gger is it Frank Miller is it Bob Kane or is it Alex Ross it would make sense for it to be a cane Cameo I want to say it's Bob Kane because he was taking credit for everything thing at that point is that is that your answer yeah we'll go with Bob Kane G to go with Bob Kane that is correct piece of [ __ ] it is Bob Kane yet again screwing over Bill Finger all right here we go Bruce Wayne was helped by his faithful Butler Alfred which actor played Alfred in the movie was it Michael go Jack Palance Pat hangle or Tracy Walter H okay this one I'm not sure I have no idea I think after all those movies he was in he would leave an impression on me but but he really didn't and do remember you do have two more 50-50s left let's do a 5050 yeah yeah all right the remaining names are Michael go and Tracy Walter what do you think an um I don't I really have no idea I either these people are I'm gonna go with Tracy because I like that name is that the answer you're going for sure oh sadly it was Michael go here's one that is a pure crapshoot that if you get this one right I will be surprised what number apartment did Vicky Veil live in was it 9 4 7 or two huh I never want to meet anyone who likes this movie that much I'm gonna want that this quiz is wild because we'll range from like insanely easy like the Billy D one and then like what number was the apartment I don't remember this is it 947 or two I don't remember anything some Maniac knows this and I absolutely hate them I want them to know that if I hear this it's gon to be like Ariz sitting there going like I remember numbers let's go with seven just because that your answer yep yeah sadly it was nine okay God damn it I all right um who did the musical score for Batman was it Robert Smith Danny Elfman Nick begs or Billy Idol Daniel the elf man it was Danny elf Oingo Boingo himself that is correct here's a one that we'll see how you do who played Alexander Knox in the movie a character I don't even remember was it Robert wool was it Kevin Pollock was it Albert Brooks or was it Steve Gutenberg see I don't like all these questions about specific actors I Don't Remember actors for movies I have seen in the past five years I did not review anything past the third question before doing this quiz with y'all oh my God yeah I don't remember a character named Knox in this movie I'll give you a clue that he was an investigative reporter trying to uncover the story behind back Batman he and Vicky Veil teamed up to try and reveal the truth about Batman and the character was created solely for the movie that's why we don't remember him I remember his character I couldn't have told you this act actually I could have figured out from this actor's name as the only actor I couldn't picture in my head yeah but you're good at like actor I'm weirdly face blind sometimes I mean it's just he's the other major reporter character in the movie if you remember the other the guy reporter who was working with Vicky Veil I remember I don't remember anything about this film it turns out I gotta watch Batman 89 again you do have one more 5050 let's let's use it why not okay your remaining choices are Robert wool or Steve Gutenberg I think it's Robert wool is that your answer sure sure you're correct it is Robert wool because you would definitely remember if the gos was in it yeah yeah it's Robert wool yeah it's yeah he's he's a report like I remembered his character once I saw that who they were talking about but I couldn't picture the just off the name Robert will in my head but Kevin Pollock I can I know who that is the guts and Albert Brooks I know who all of those people look like so it would have been like the one name I couldn't match to a different face all right in the movie Bruce Wayne hosted a charity casino night he told the waiter to open more cases of what at the casino night was it beer was it champagne was it wine or was it spirits champagne is that your answer let's go champagne champagne feels right correct yeah here's one for you that I'm sure that you will hate bur Wayne's parents died in the alley between what two streets Park and Grant Pearl and Phillips 18th and Monclair or Harvard in fifth for some reason I want to say pearl and Phillips but I'm probably just thinking of Martha's stupid cheap a necklace like is that your answer uh I don't know what do you think an why not let with it you're right it's pear and Phillips yeah cuz I'm thinking like those movies were so hecking like cheesy of course they would have throw it in like weird little like nods to random stuff all right here's the last one that I'm sure you'll hate but it's the final question so you'll be overjoyed when you're done at the end of the movie The Joker kidnapped Vicky Veil and retreated into Gotham City Cathedral he radioed his henchmen to pick him up in a helicopter at the top how many minutes did Joker request until the chopper picked him up 5 minutes 20 minutes 15 minutes or 10 minutes you're right I do hate this yeah I I hate this I do in fact hate this 5 10 15 or 20 my friends do we have any more 50/50s nope you use the last one ah five minutes is that your answer yeah I'll go with that irritatingly it's 10 so let's let's total your your results here you guys got seven out of 10 which C the average result on this is a six out of 10 yeah we did better than average so you did better than the average person on funtrivia.com suck it suck it you Aro yeah so yeah now I got to figure out how to end the episode okay bye uh so yeah this is ner Tha I've been trador I'm still Celeste I have once I once saw a Batman movie one time you should watch the Batson one it's pretty good yeah the Batson one's pretty good you should say your name and who you are though I am the Batman you heard it first Batman's identity revealed yep it's genjin it's genjin genjam all along genjin is billionaire Bruce Wayne I'd rather be manbat I I wouldn't I would not want to be manbat first off like manbat I like shirts and I like having shirts to fit and um anyways this has been nerd and TI and like you can totally subscribe to this show on like apple podcast Google podcast Spotify like all that stuff and you should rate and review us on those things because man that like totally juices Us in the algorithm and stuff and you can follow this show on social media we are at on Twitter we're at nerd andai on Tumblr we're nerd andai on Facebook we're facebook.com for and wait for it nerd and TI you you can like join us on Discord and like talk to us and stuff and we got an invite for that at nerd andy.com Discord and we're part of like a whole network like this whole network of shows that like cover stuff from actual play podcast like the phenomenal storm wooden Associates and the meat grinder and let's be legendary to Witchcraft podcasts like bs3 Witchcraft and hex positive like famicom dojo and casual trk are just sitting out there with your best nerd stuff you can watch celeste's best videos on YouTube Nerd and Tha has everything you need to waste your life and at least spend some time during this riter strike because you're going to run out of content on these streaming services soon but our content is right there it's right video it's right there there are hundreds of stormwood episodes dear Lord we made them for you and we want you to love them anyway so like dude you should do that and remember you can support the show financially like if you got a few dollars to throw our way uh I have a patreon at patreon.com t g o r n Celeste she's got a patreon at patreon.com celest ISB and again sell stuff on the internet under what name again crypted arcade and you can buy some cool ass [ __ ] that you could like give to like your friend for their birthday which I'm sure is coming up soon and you forgot about it and like you could totally get them something like what are you waiting for get out there and do it anyways man it's been real fun talking to you this month we're all about it we're all about that flow and all about the nature of mankind slowly drifting into the Sun as we burn up in the light of fandoms embrace you know what I mean man Keep On spocking In The Free World that's so deep that's so deep that's so deep hell yeah celest you know that's really that's that's really deep we're like in the only state in our entire area that like we're completely surrounded by places with legal weed you cannot get it here get it here and I was about to make a terrible submarine joke but I won't