Let's talk Men's Mental Health with Tom Burgess - Save A Warrior UK

so episode three yes wow I know exciting it is what should we talk about today oh we we didn't do the things oh do you want to do Mrs and misses I forgot we had got I got excited didn't I forgot Mrs and Mrs minute so I always say that um Hannah is my podcast wife so I thought for this season we could have a you know the Mr and Ms show we could do a Mrs and misss so what are we going to do how many questions are we going to do three no let's do two two each yeah okay you've got them on your phone as well okay so I'll go first so I'm asking you about me if I could take one thing to a desert island what would it be herbalize yeah it would be it would be actually it's prob be fine wouldn't I I didn't actually think I'd get that right oh yeah it would be um uh what What's my guilty pleasure I don't know if it's guilty if it's if it's not a secret is it guilty it's probably something that you would like to tell everyone about okay but watching the Kardashians oh real reality TV yeah oh I know you so well okay got so um what can I choose got list here if I could have one superpow what would it be oh be invisible exactly right right yes ibility um you could do anything being invisible couldn't you still love to be a FL that's the thing I want to do uh what's my middle name Elizabeth correct well done I'm proud of you yes we nailed it so episode three yeah we have the wonderful Thomas Burgess good morning how are you I'm all right good I'm good so Mental Health for men what a catalyst it is at the moment mm um we're really grateful for you to come on a share your story to give another level to the audience in this podcast and no doubt a relatable story for many uh linked to the military so let's talk about your military story where did you serve how long were you in for what type of experiences you had etc etc and then we'll go on to the challenges I just want to link back very quickly to Desert Island I would be a bit more pragmatic i' probably take a knife and a metal pot to cook some water and some food in you can only have one thing though oh definitely knif knife okay that's talking from someone in the military so okay he's got skills you don't have no that's true I just shake my breakfast in a tub exactly no well the military uh for me started I think the idea of it when I was 13 U the Cadets the air Cadets was on my uh school campus oh wow and that's where I got the idea for it my my Grandad was in the Navy and um he instilled that um almost you know that's what I aspire to be uh at an early age and yeah by the age of 17 and a half I was like you know that's that's definitely where I want to go and join up because the Air Cadet was on the same school as mine it was just a natural thing for me to go on and do afterwards so at 18 I uh put my put pen to paper and and joined the r rge mhm and uh 14 years wow one and all so what types of places or or what do they call it where you get sent somewhere deployment deployments did you go on well there's a few different names but I I call it going on tour yeah um so it was at an early age my first tour was Iraq uh 2004 um so three tours of Iraq in in the early years um which was an eye opener for for a young Tom wet behind the ear straight out of school limited life experience yeah very little I was I worked a wh Mist before that you knew a good quality notepad yeah oh station oh the DVD that's that's probably even exist anymore does it probably not no no but yeah hours and hours spent open up those hard plastic cases and putting I have to shuing them as a very big weird fan of stationary I would have loved to have worked in wh Smith would you yeah I think it's quite pricey you know it is quite pricey but I mean it's all I like paper chase that was my favorite they bu something about opening a fresh hardback A4 um the smell of the paper and and having a a nice little note written in there by a special lady that you got in your life a Tom's wife is in the room he is talking about her yes I am yeah so lots of different tours yeah so three uh the early years were uh araq free all in B so those that been out there and know it it's the it called the cob um contingency operating base and it was it saddam's old um international airport airport for the south of Iraq and um t um and we stayed over on the last two tours in a place called water lines which was essentially a compounded gated area with some ISO container like corch um accommodations with metal Dome over the top apparently that was to you know stop fragmentation and damage but we we know that that wasn't uh you know always the case unfortunately so sometimes things came through him and sometimes they went through the side in through the Gap and ended up hurting people through the Rockets but um you know I I'm no SAS Soldier uh you know I didn't lead a very Punchy career uh I just did a long time and um and enjoyed what I did but uh certainly if we're talking about mental health um and you know what what's contributed to my decline in mental health through my life the 2007 tour um you know we we had a really hard time U as did a lot BLS always his Ang girl sorry on that tour with with rockets and an incoming so it was it was a tough time and U unfortunately we lost a few few men on that tour uh good friends what what does military life look like when you're in it like a lot of dis IPL training well it's it's never ending training so you you know work is training yeah so you know turning up to work on a 9 to5 job in the UK you know you've got your your processes and your things that you do well in the military you would in six months time we're deploying to Iraq or Afghanistan or Africa or wherever it is so every day is leading up to that it's a giant project you know so you putting all of the things in place everyone's got to be qualified to do X if you've got drivers they've got to be able to drive and and everyone gets ready for that deployment and when you're on it you just do the job it's very hard to sort of explain what the job is because it's different on on one tour to the next every day I expect as well looks different does it when you're there yeah you don't know what's going to occur do you no unpredictable that's life well yeah massively yeah so through your journey in the military mhm um what do you feel like your biggest Mental Health Challenge was whilst in it uh not being honest with myself about the fact that 2007 uh had a a massive um negative effect on my mental health you know uh losing three friends uh in one go um and also the n if I held for myself is I should have died on that tour because there was a couple of situations where if I'd have turned left I I wouldn't have been here if I hadn't said a few Choice words to an individual I I would have stayed in one bed space and slept there whilst the rocket came in and took out my mate uh so fate really did you know PVE the way yeah and the unhealthy part of my my mental health story is that I should have died on that tour and that's what I've had in my head the whole way through up until quite recently where I survived and I lived to tell the tale so it's survivor's guilt uh moral injury call it what you want um you know I just uh I had the wrong words and the wrong understanding of of it that's quite I think that's quite a common feeling isn't it in the military my husband's dad was in the Marines and he was a sniper and his uh best mate died and they took it in turns you know to go into where whatever they were doing when they were they would take it in turns and it was his turn and he was his May took over and yeah and that he's carried that narrative he's hold off yeah from there yeah but you know in still such a you know that that comaraderie feel without looking out for your oppos um you know his safety is my responsibility as a as a Corporal as a as a junior Commander my responsibility is to look after eight men um if one of them gets hurt it's my bag um and that's through CBT therapy last year changing the the feeling behind the word responsibility um we still didn't we didn't really get there it was just talked about and it's something that I'm I'm learning now that it's not my responsibility if someone decides to do something off their own back and get hurt but my responsibility was to make sure that my job was carried out and the processes were in place to make sure it was as safe as possible can't stop a bullet fight through the air can you but no but you also can't stop guilt or the feeling of guilt when you're in a position of accountability and responsibility because that's a natural emotion that you carry related to anything military or not do you think that there's a stigma attached to the expected mental health impact of being in the military well the military needs men and women that can stand up and just crack on and do the job um there is good chat about people opening up and and talking about mental health and and I I believe that there are you know really good things in place that are actually looking after people in the military right now I know the early years of my career it was talked about that it's okay to talk to your Corporal and open up but there's that bravado yeah um you know you're wearing this cloak of you know uniform with a flag on your arm and maybe you've got rank you're the you're what people look up to yeah so my sergeant was going wobble you know that's that's a terminology used in there or putting pencils up your nose like it's it's not a good look so you just crack on there's an expectation that I guess that doesn't happen or isn't seen to happen no it it doesn't and it's it's a shame you know I I've got a vision where you know because people join the military they may come from a trouble background you know the military is really good at recruiting from particular areas and and places around the country where you know you've seen seen a Navy advert where it's born in wherever and made in the Navy it's like we'll take you from wherever you are like you know you've got no no hope no Outlook no job prospects whatever we'll give it to you in the movie yeah um so it's an interesting concept to expose through the media I think without any real context and on the other side of that I I really agree with that that commercial I'm not knocking it because joining the military got me out of working in some retail shop for the rest of my life and also keeps you out of Street trouble doesn't it like a lot of lads an social behavior a lot of lad I know would get in trouble fighting or whatever and um keep and I know that nowadays Cadets is still a thing right it's I don't know I think there is yeah but but actually you don't see um adverts on the media about being a Cadet and inspiring and encouraging the youth to know that that's an option yeah all you see is the how to go from kind of a 16 17 year old straight into the Navy or yeah what I will say is I'm in recruitment that's my job so when we do job fairs there's always Navy and Marine spots mhm to recruit to talk to people you know this is a career option for you um and we we work in Marine recruitment and we're really Keen to talk to those Lads as well to go into the Marines or go into the Navy or go into the military and learn a trade as well while you're there so then when you do come out you've got a career that you can F into because that's known as hard to come out as well isn't it absolutely just crack on of civilian life mhm something you're not used to yeah I wish I joined up in I enjoyed the ref rge uh I very much enjoyed running around with gun and you know backpack as a young kid like that the who would not want to do that but you know it's not all cool but it's if I'd have joined the military and gone and into a traded role like talking Sparky or or Mt mechanic or something like that I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much as I did doing yeah the I guess you don't get the handon experience do you like of military life I enjoyed being an infer that that's that's what I aspire to be um it didn't really serve me getting out of the military because like the only going to do the only route out of the military to do that is going to do close protection private security work on the circuit yeah um and that's just reliving the same mistake and it doesn't bode well if you've got a relationship that you want to Foster and and and grow up and have kids in a family but so yeah of course so when you came out of the military were you kind of at a Crossroads of what to do or did you have a kind of an aspiration to do something in particular I I I needed to get out um I'd out grown the Mery um 10 year point I was was I'm in an r in like you know there's something C for me to do in life I've lived this now I've done it plus all of the tours I lived for going away on tour I I did six in total back to back the last one I volunteered for they didn't need me but I said no I'm staying I want to do it um it was easier away on tour than it was in the UK and I recognized I wasn't well but I didn't have the courage to go yeah I'm done yeah good heavy drinking problem um and just isolating myself from my wife at the time and you know grumpy my body was breaking um and I was I I was done I recognized that bit but the the the hardest part is just admitting the fact that there's something wrong you know uh in in in all of it you can just hold on to it if you haven't got a drink problem if you're asking yourself that question then there's there's there's something inside that's actually pushing you on to to have that conversation open um and it wasn't until last year where I actually admitted to myself and being honest to myself that I did have a trink problem and I've carried it right the way through my military career yeah um and hid it well because it's a big culture it's I was just about to say that it's a military culture isn't it drinking get smashed yeah that's like you know what day is it it's Tuesday Let's Get Down the bar and is that is that is that a coping thing do you think or is that a social thing is it a release is it a a combination of all of those things or is it just a habit that you know cuz you went in young there'd be older people they're doing it I guess a habit that's maybe encouraged by the fact that everyone else around you is doing it that's your arena there isn't anywhere else you go so therefore if you don't do it you're kind of the anomaly who sticks out like a sore THB you yeah blend in why you know we're we're you know we're cave men and women at the end of the day we want to be in a tribe that is similar to what we do how we look how we WEA and how we talk and if you put yourself on the outside of that tribe you know why is he different you know he's not one of us you know so you blend in yeah of course um and you say the words and you you do the things to make sure that you fit in because everyone wants to fit in and be light right of course so it's fair to say a year ago your life was very different mentally um yeah yeah pretty much well it's just over a year where I um before I like admitted that I had a drink problem but it's the year and a half two years three years before that where it's sort of escalating and getting you know more of a thing you know um and yeah really tough period of time Co didn't help you know didn't help a lot of people um I know that so everyone's locked inside the doors I caught Co and the first thing I did was celebrate while opening a bottle of wine like right this is it I'm going out um in sty you're not the first person I've heard say that all no I drank and just the time at home I drank so much cuz sounds ridiculous saying this now but what else was there to do yeah that there's a deadly disease running around the world trying to kill everyone let's just beat everyone to it and drink us how silly yeah but you know um carried on that that that maintenance level of of alcohol after we went back to the real world yeah what did that look like for you if we can share a little bit about that because other EP episodes people have shared their story story behind going sober is this a like I only drink Wednesday to Sunday person or is this I need to drink everyday person or what like what did that look like for you in terms of a coping mechanism um it's Tuesday let's have a drink get home from work let's have let's open a bottle of wine it's a nice day why not let's open a bottle of wine it's just it was just too easy to go to get into it and there are you know times where I've been on my own and like there's no reason to and I'll just get smashed yeah you know Kate would go uh she'd be doing a night shift or uh out with friends or or something else and it would be right let's let's get the wine on and we'll have a couple of cans as well and by it's 1:00 don't worries i' got to be up at 6:00 in the morning let's have a night cap before I go to bed yeah but how common is that in households I I do that that phrasing what you said oh we got home from work let's have a bottle of wine I know from growing up with my parents um having kind of the French element in our lives that is very normal that is yeah we'll have a bottle of wine with before dinner we'll have a bottle of wine with dinner and I'll have half a bottle of brandy before I go to sleep every day of the week and that's kind of a European culture built into that but from a person who then recognized that the drink was kind of an addictive element of their lifestyle to other people that they would then question their use of alcohol of whether that was an addiction or whether that was just normal for them the word Addiction there it doesn't have to be alcohol for me I've I've got um an addictive personality yeah if it's alcohol if it's over exercising if it's working too hard if it's you know put anything in it if it's skydiving you skydiving addiction well you if you've done it once and you enjoy it it's Tom's wife has literally got her heads in her hands and I've I I did that for quite a bit period of time but the the point I getting that I I didn't value my life yeah Fair um and there was you know you've got to wave off uh falling through the sky skydiving here you got wave up and let everyone know you're about to deploy canopy I would say no I'm going to be the last one to deploy the camping see how far you can get yeah like play chicken with plan planet Earth he was playing knock down Ginger I've never heard this before knock down Ginger she was saying on the like what the hell is that no yeah with gravity yeah but it's the second bounce that kills you so you just hug onto the grass that's what I've heard hug onto the grass I mean you'd hope they would hopefully they cut the grass oh no I was going to say please let me land in a corn field my my my sky daring instructor told me that his name was Jordy best he did like a drink he's a really nice guy as well hope he wasn't drunk when he took you up there ask me another question the answer to that Kate is yes do you think it was that euphoric feeling that is what is addictive because you get that with drink don't you you get that with it's that that yeah it's that sort of fuzzy euphoric feeling that you get just before you drink too much or I imagine you get that I've never jumped have a plane but I imagine that is a huge feeling you get yeah it's that that anti anticipation of the buzz yeah you know satting that plane you know engine turns on you going up climb I that would be my worst and I was in there and I I was like I was you know the the adrenaline was starting to come through body I was like yes this is it yeah and then they open the door and like people start bathing out cu it right my turn next and you get I got into a ball and I just Cannon balled out this this this this plane God more often than not did you know any of this love this is before we met but all right um it was after this get into a ball and hold on as long as you're there wow that you know and I was like right I can do that and I just got out I just held on it was like Sky Fall Sky flock Sky flock spinning go now a huge way for your brain to hold negativity in terms of not having any selfworth I had the narrative that I should have died in Iraq and I was living on Bor time wow uh that's that's just the thing so but now and at the time the people and the environment and where I was I it wasn't Ser it wasn't there to look after me because everyone I was doing a very good job of saying I'm absolutely fine you know glazing them all over mask we wear how do you move your mindset and no doubtedly in the last year you've maybe gone on a bit of this journey is how do you move from feeling like you have no self-worth and when you're jumping out of a plane you're quite happy to play chicken with the grass to understanding the role of somebody who goes to war in the military knowing that there's potential for people to not come back but having understanding and acceptance that you did Your Role well the turning point for me was when I'm looking in my wife's eyes I'm having a massive breakdown in the living room um and I'm screaming at the top of my LS like fix me like what's wrong with me fix me um you're the health care professional here what would you do um so yeah that that's what I say like people call it hit and rck bottom uh or or you know get actually I think the most courageous thing I've ever done like it honest open and willing there three words I'd heard around about the same time um didn't really resonate with me but if if anyone's out there right now is like even thinking that there's a slight problem or they just they've identified struggling suffering in their life and just be honest with yourself like before you talk to anyone just be honest with yourself and identify the the problem and actually admit that there is a problem um you know and you know I'm talking about this now I can feel like I've just said that there's a problem I just feel a little bit of a lifting yeah I'm okay like it was getting quite tense leading up to that work yeah okay there's there's a problem I've identified that and I put things in place now that are getting me stronger every day and it's been over a year where so what does that look like in terms of your toolkit of mechanisms to kind of keep your resilience building at a balance that suits you well it started with honesty yeah um called the GP MH I need help um I must have said all of the right things which tipped those boxes for you know middle-aged men military drink at risk yeah because very quickly afterwards I had a a crisis call with um mental health professional and at the time I was like I'm fine you know I'm I'm I'm not a risk but I've obviously ticked all of those boxes at historically looking at men that have you know committed suicide I was in that category I found myself there I didn't didn't plan to get there I drifted off into that area um and from there it went through to CBT therapy okay um once a week on a Friday at 10:00 at the time it was it was it was a good thing I know a little bit different now I think differently now um but it was required it's that it's that first step uh but I'm I'm like half a mile down the road now recovery and I know that there's a difference to what I need to do now and it's every time I sense that thing coming up like this this impending doom or whatever that feeling is I've just got Ro at him just stop have a think about it and just admit what what's going on what where how my emotions are controlling my body and my voice um and just communicate it to those around us okay like with with Kate it's like if couple of days ago I'm feeling like proper like angst and red Misty and and really pent up and instead of being the old on and just carrying on and pushing through it because that's what we need to do um right okay this is what's happening this is how I'm feeling right now I just I I'm I'm letting you know how I feel and just being honest with the woman that loves me definitely um so I think there's a real stigma behind the PTSD experienced ex military Navy those types of Arenas police even in nursing for me um definitely outside of covid that's been a huge huge Catalyst uh in medical services what advice would you give men to find the courage to talk because I think Society stigma really shuts them down and silences a lot of men to know that actually it's okay not have to uphold this masculine character or bravado just because the world says you're not allowed to cry well I think it comes down to the responsibility of absolutely everyone here um if you're a friend to someone else and you can identify and see that they're they're in a rough patch be a friend right you've got their phone number uh you've got their WhatsApp just send them a high five emoji or something um but down to the individual you know just take stock of where you are in life um and just make a an assessment of right now because yesterday's gone yeah you know tomorrow ain't here yet right now be present with with how your your emotions are presenting um and and what you can do to make right now a little bit easier some breathing exercises brilliant Vim Hoff on YouTube so cool is like come that feel like um I'm a real fan of ice bars just I don't mind a cold shower but not an ice bath I started uh ice showers not ice cold showers showers they feel like ice when you start them but we've been looking at one of those lomy you know the garden yeah as long as you got the means to make the ice yeah um so h a free are real close by but in the garage but the the sensation I would get when I was was skydiving or or going out nightclubbing that that pump um you get that I bath it's but it's it's longer lasting it's throughout the day wow I've heard that yeah Kate did hers this morning um and on the drive in she's her words were I'm so relaxed really I like that with cold showers I know it's not as cold but after my walks and runs in the morning 100% straight in cold shower job done it lasts yeah so yeah it's a good bit of Kit and it's something that is it's been advised to me to to take on board from the CEO of the charity in America saber Warrior yeah he does it daily down to zero degrees um and he does like8 minutes he's a bit you know intense as character um how long do you do uh well whatever the degree is so if it's 10 degrees I'll do 10 minutes yeah um but I think it it will never get less than 5 minutes I'm just going to hold five temperature but you know we're yet to get there I'm building into that it's only what three weeks since I've had it but I know I've every day yeah you do it in the morning morning yesterday we did it in the evening um quite like that after 30° in the evening does it wake you up though so like would you still sleep well if you I know that sounds stupid but I've heard that people that I know that do it in the morning says because it just really wakes them up yeah so maybe like a four o'clock or something yeah do it in the morning to get that feeling or what day but you know I I'd say if he was going to do it in the evening just don't do it seconds before you get into bed CU that's just it's not cool no and shaking like a cold dog in bed trying to warm up but um no it's a good bit of Kit and that's just another uh golf club for the golf bag you know completely natural bag completely natural amazing so we've got honesty we've got um ice barath looking at the T kits and and things from what you asked um light exercise you know I used to be um I'm big into doing charity events and and that in my life and the last big one was uh an attempt at 100 mile uh run manag 91 miles before I creamed in but I know that all of the that was another thing you know just diving head on into the task and the training for that and isolating myself away from the problem and the thing at the time I wasn't drinking but I'd swapped out for overtraining so dissociation um and it's essentially it's triangle you you got big big healthy dose of Shame for something to happen in my life yeah and then I'll go down and I'll deny it um and now it didn't really happen I'll tell myself a story or or tell someone else a story to sort of like cover up what it was and then I end up skipping past the route out of it um which is grief you've got access your grief to get past this thing and up just numbing with alcohol or or whatever it was down there and you end up just doing this triangular line yeah so so you mentioned sa Warrior yep you co-found or run the UK side of the charity it's it's early days um with the the UK charity for sa Warrior we're we're gearing up for um for launch next year nice but we're doing everything we can now to put the message out there to people that that a need to know about us but be businesses and organizations that want to help and support us yeah but myself and Adam gornell were the co-founders for saber warrior in the UK um and we've got the full blessing of the US team um it's been running for 12 years wow um to bring it over to our Shores so ultimately it is a charity who serve and support ex military or current mil military so it's it's military police fire uh and Frontline um paramedic okay essentially that that that Frontline Uniform service um and whether they've served a day or 14 years um or still serving they they can submit online uh not yet okay I'll say that not yet because we can't um we can't do it just yet but when they do um they'll submit that application form they'll turn up to us they'll um experience a three-day residential Retreat where they'll receive you know the love Cannon as it were and and they open the doors of honesty and the teaching from that it's it's such a transformative experience I went over to the states to sit the seat um cuz I was lying to myself on the way up to it I'm just going over there for a Wy with a notepad and okay that needs to go there and so we need these things these these things here and the chairs need to be S like that and 5 minutes before they open the door for me I'm stood there I'm like like I'm here because I needed to be um and that's when I started crying 72 hours later I was still [ __ ] crying so um it was and tears a grief that's the way out of this you got you know this pressure release Val on on everything but the whole of My Le lead life leading up to that point was this compression and twist and and getting Tighter and just squeezing the the life out of the towel and that last little drop in it was there and when someone looked at me they looked me in the eyes and said I know why you here you know uh and this is not going to go your way you know this big outstretched hand like buddy I know why you're here um and that was it like powerful stuff yeah so um life changing yeah yeah it it it it enabled me to really change the narrative so I I put down my armor i i i initiated into civilian life from the military uh at sa Warrior I put down my shield um I put down my armor i' car I've been carrying the weight of the Dead for well since they all died yeah um and it was my fault or it was I should have been in their place or whatever the thing was carrying it daily um my wife would say what's wrong nothing oh fine carry on how are you yeah you you right just I was just carrying it and I put it all down inside of this uh this Labyrinth this maze um and walked out of there me and lighter I imagine have no idea yeah no idea one I valued My Life um I have got more gears in the in the gearbox to to keep pedaling through do you feel like you have a new purpose now I I have purpose you know uh I I was a husband before hand um and that was you know serve my wife and and serve our life and that that was purpose but the Declarations I made there essentially were almost like renewing the vows of my life if you want to call it anything so I I declared that I would be a husband father leader and love that the four declarations are made and that's what sa a warrior does for you you you identif find a thing you know what what is it that's made you sick you know you get complete with your past you through talking therapy or role play someone else standing up there in front of you and pretending to be you know whoever it was in the past that's wronged you uh and and apologizing to them for making you wrong right that's a interesting concept but then declaring to the world to the the men in that room the universe myself that I'm going to change and this is going to be different and then after the three-day aspect of it there's 500 Days of reintegration through uh a community-led um support group and that's that's the essential bit really because you can learn the new words and and how to act but if you don't integrate and instill it and do the [ __ ] work you know um hash do the [ __ ] work it's a thing you know it's my friend Steve who was on the course with on the oh he actually bra plug there yeah Steve thank you m I've been looking at that I thought that was a nice bracelet yeah but it's it's a every morning you know and I'm not great at the morning meditation but got to do a 20 minute Warrior meditation I've swapped it out for the ice barath that's still just as it's a form of and I think when you're going through self-development and I know that you've heard me talk at Network events as I have heard you speak about your story self-development is such a broad term that there isn't a one-size fits all and just because you do meditation in the morning or journaling doesn't mean that I should do it or it works for me in the same way because we're all very different we're all completely wired very different and our experience is very different so when you look look at things that you need to have in your toolbox I definitely wouldn't out jump out of a plane that's for sure but the the mechanisms that we build are what creates the resilience to be stronger and stronger and stronger every day that we wake up what does life look like now for you in terms of your internal reflection on Tom MH now I'm in a healthy relationship to all of the things that were making me sick beforehand I'm in a healthy relationship with alcohol cuz I told her to do one I don't do that anymore and I never will so you're sober absolutely yeah um I won't even touch non-alcoholic drinks because it's that mental connection that that that sort of like it's a thing yeah I can cheer someone and toast at a wedding with fizzy water in a champagne flute if you want if the person the bride looking at me wants to see everyone with champagne in hand the contents of the gas doesn't make that cheers any better or worse or unloved or anything exactly yeah so but that's just something I have to do for me um how do I see myself now um a complete whole purposeful loving human being um that is on a mission to stop men and women committing suicide um in work you know that's that's my my purpose my that's the charity piece my my my work digital presence my company um that also has mental health tied into that as well you know because you know your business might be doing okay but the part digital presence in the product that we've got it helps to like make the the whole team holistically better by touching in on Mental Health coaching so it's that that's still what where I like to be outside of that you know my wife and I we we're trying to become um parents you know desperately want to be a father um and maybe I wasn't ready for it to be a father before I'd gone through this journey you know there's a there's a healthy dose of honesty right there everything happens for a reason and I'm a huge believer of that yes I would so yeah I'm a better man now than I was yesterday and I'm um light years ahead of where I was this time last year yeah so I'm looking forward to what tomorrow brings and what next year brings and the year after that keep going and going and going yeah so where can people contact you and get in touch because obviously there might be some people who this story resonates with who' been through similar and obviously the charity is not yet available for people to contact through but are you happy for people to cont directly definitely um so Instagram you can find me it's off the stff together um and and scroll back to the early videos cuz in January that's when this all really really started for me the mental for you in the January vide quite yeah fres the reason I started was a friend of mine um killed himself uh over Christmas uh I was on basic training with him and it it wrenched me because I I was just starting to learn this new language of mental health and I felt I didn't get there in time yeah that G again there it is so you know if I if I'd have done a better job maybe he would have seen it and uh Kempy would still be here but knowing what I know now it's not my responsibility for his life yeah the military let him down there because there was free that was his third attempt um so if if you're that friend if you're that person and you identify that someone in your life is going through hard times how you doing high five emoji send them a love heart yeah knock on the door uh buy him a coffee just let them know that you're there yeah cu the same quote again from previous episodes yeah silence kills when talking saves lives yeah so yeah yeah thank you so much thank you I know some of that's really difficult to talk about at times but we both really really appreciate the honesty and warw that you've shared um and if anyone um has resonated with Tom's story or would like to get in contact to talk about his journey anymore then please follow the details that he shared on the episode thank you thank you cheers