Why are Cardinals Fans NOT Coming to Busch Stadium Anymore? | Hard Nine #84

hello everyone and welcome back to the hard n podcast today is August the 29th and the Cardinals are coming off a split with the San Diego Padres where once again they are just like kissing your sister however we remain six and a half back in the wild card so there is that they're playing some inspiring baseball over the last 10 days I would say I feel like you just maybe bastardized the word inspiring I mean they won two or three from the Brewers took two or three from the Twins and split with a really good Padres team that's a good stretch of baseball so if they if they were you know two games back you know of a spot we'd be really excited about the 10 days they just came off of or 11 days whatever it is however Tommy fam it just got waved because of where they are at what um they're seven games back of the Braves six and a half now the Braves win seven if they lose six um so once again we're they're not in it until they are I don't think they will ever get back in it the organization now is admitting that they don't think they're in it because Tommy fam got waved um so I think that's a good place to start because it's the newest news um what do you make of the Sha Armstrong and Tommy fam moves that are basically the organization saying we're looking towards 2025 if something cool happens good but we're not expect again before I answer that question would it shock you to know that um a month ago today we were one game back in the wild card no they had a really bad August a bad so what I'm saying is like here's what I would say to that it's wild to me that fam I I I understand they probably did that to get those guys on a a team but it's wild to me that you're not really waving the White Flag but you're kind of waving the White Flag when we saw like the reason I ask you that is there's still a month left in the season so theoretically you're not out of and I think the Padres announcers hit on that this week like theoretically they're not out of it so it does sort of surprise me to see them make this move with fam and Armstrong to where they eventually essentially excuse me traded Carlson for no just gave him away and then we can get to that in a little bit traded Tommy Edmond for Eric Fetti which I think trade I think it it's fine it's fine it's absolutely fine like I'm not B bastardizing that either that's twice I've Ed that word we'll never use that again I'm not gonna do that I know I must have heard it in something I don't know that I don't know where that came from um however it is weird that that all happened and it does feel like they're waving the White Flag but they're not because Jordan Walker Nolan Gorman and others are still at Triple A so I I'm not sure again limbo it feels like we're always in limbo with this franchise here here's my thing about Tommy fam and why I think his situation makes a lot of sense um one he hasn't been good like he was he had a great first week with the Cardinals really great correct he has a 653 Ops I think I saw with the Cardinals not great okay we acknowledge that um I think this gives you a runway for two players to get playing time that he would have gotten it's Jordan Walker because I think he'll be back whenever the a lotted time is I think he has to wait 15 days um is that what I think that's what it is I don't know when he got sent down that might just be for pitchers I don't know I think if it's allowed I don't know the rules with September cups and if you can kind of maneuver that way I think Walker's up on September 1st if that's a thing that can happen um and Lucan Baker who's batting fourth against righties right now for the Cardinal so I think it makes sense because I'd rather those two get playing time anyway and to be quite honest with you there might not be much of a drop off between those two and Tommy fam anyway um I know Tommy fam's yearlong stats are obviously much better than Tom than Jordan Walker's I'm not saying that I'm aware but I don't I think it's worth that anyway and Tommy F like get him on a playoff team that's where he shines I think they're doing right by him by doing this I would assume um he had some say so I I think it's a good move I do think it is funny when you look back um not even a month ago was the trade deadline a month ago tomorrow and two of the three guys they acquired are gone um tell you let me ask you this because we know how risky trade deadlines are anyway uh no matter what side of the coin you're on right we know we know that if you win it all everything was worth it no matter what you did if you win it all does not matter you could give up the next Mike Trout but if you won a World Series does not matter in that it's like it's like when the blues gave up Tage Thompson who's a star but they got Ryan O'Reilly and one of Stanley Cup 100 and one of St yes we we agree on that um but it is wild if you look back maybe fill me in last year at this point in time we were still discussing the trade deadline that we thought Mo had that was really really good and I think out of all of those players you got a bunch if you could get two to three that can contribute on your Rost your 26-man roster that's a pretty good one but we do see is there anyone left from the Tyler O'Neal trade is there do they have I mean there's a triaa starter who's in and out of the rotation that's not going to be a major league player okay and then the other one gone and now and Carlson trades are just straight up bad Trad let me ask you this wasn't it weird about the Sean I mean Armstrong wasn't bad like that's the one that was weird to me I I don't I think he's not a good reliever so if I'm being honest like I watch he was what two years ago right just two years ago last year last year right but once again we're in the situation where the Rays couldn't fix him why in the hell do we think the Cardinals can um I I I'd rather see Riley O'Brien you know like again we're in the same situation where it might not be that big of a drop off in production and you might find a guy that you know like George Romero last year we didn't think George Romero was going to be a guaranteed back end of the guy this year and he has been because of what we saw last year if R O'Brien joins that that's five million $6 million less you have to spend in the offseason so that's much more valuable than Sean Armstrong to me zero argument do you not see that there was room for both was there not I mean am I missing something here I don't think there was like who are you sending down or who are you DFA for him like that I don't know who about that answer I'm not sending down Libby he was great tonight in a high leverage situation which was nice to see um I'm not sending down Fernandez obviously you can't even do that he was a rule Five Guy um who am I missing John King's been really good like I don't think I'm doing that all these guys have Team control and I'd rather see those guys in what they can do in September than okay that's a valid point I was asking I just I mean it's just optically looks terrible like to be honest with you I'd rather see kyley like I'd rather see that guy who has five six more years of Team control left and see if he might be a guy can be a fixure next year so can I ask you then the question to tweak it a little bit knowing that you're getting Riley O'Brien back why trade Dylan Carlson for a guy that you're going to DFA because you're hamstrung with Riley O'Brien even if you are still in it or you are out of it either way if they still in I they wouldn't have made that move still in would if they were two games back they wouldn't have made that move like seven games back yeah your stuff technically in it but like you you need to collapse in a hot streak to get in um you need to clock from the the Mets can't be good the Giants can't be good and the Braves have to be bad and you have to go 22 and seven probably like that's not likely at all so you're playing the likelihood here which is what they should be doing so then can I ask you this and let's move on to the next point which is if that is the case if that's where we are Lance Lin Kyle Gibson miles Michel probably shouldn't make another start on this team this year if we're gonna be honest um Lance I agree with Lance and Miles Michael they sh it for sure um miles the problem with miles Michael once again the contract next year so we know they're not going do it shut him down I agree with you I literally said tweeted today um put Ling Gibs on waivers and tell Michaels he has an injury that's what I said um impingment impin he has a couple impingements they're old enough to where you can find one two things with Lynn I don't think he would have accepted being on waivers I think he would have just maybe retired I don't I just don't think he would have he moved back here in the large park because of his family um Gibson I still think if the Cardinals probably might want to give him an OP like might want to take his option I don't agree with that move but if they want to leave that door open you can't really put him on waivers at all so that's why now you can disagree with it and I do but I think that's the reason the interesting one is Stephen matz what the hell are they gonna do with step mats when he's back because you if you put him in the bullpen that means one of liby your king needs to go down and I can't say for certain that Stephen mats is better than those two in the bullpen um or you put them in the rotation which opens the door of where the hell are Lynn and Matts you're you're not running a seven man rotation so I don't know what they even do with Steven mats at this point is it fair also to say and I know where you stand because we actually talked about this earlier so I'm cheating the system here when I know what you're gonna say even though I think I disagree with you that we could also discuss DFA Matt Carpenter and bringing Nolan Gorman up and getting him more MLB at bats because his if if he's only going to be a triaa guy then he has you just destroyed every bit of value Nolan Gorman has and if we are committing to playing the young guys then let's go ahead and get him 30 to 40 bat at bats 50 to 60 at bats moving forward and and get him ready for if you want to play him in the fall league or you want to have him work with somebody else in the fall getting ready for 2025 because he has to be an integral part either on this team or to use as a trade I don't still want that I want him still on this team you got control over him I understand you're gonna say he's a left-handed bat well so is noan Gorman I that that's where I'm at right now like if we're gonna make the move let's make the move well the with the problem two things there's a couple problems with that one Matt Carpenter is not going to play every day if noan GS up here for that reason of getting him at bats he has to play every day so you have to have someone on your bench that's not playing like that just has to be a thing that you have two their goal with saying Nolan Gorman down was to get him right not to not to punish him so it wasn't like oh you're going to Triple A because you're bad which he was but we need you to get right so then you're kind of undermining that decision when you're you're having him down there for low stress of bats to try to figure out his swing because to be honest with you his swing was so bad that getting him a bu of a batch with that same swing isn't doing much he's got to figure out how to put the ball in play more often he's got to figure out how to not swing and Miss as often like those are two things he's not doing well um so if you bring him up here is he just going to be the same he was in July and August and then you really got no you fixed nothing nothing was fix which begs the question what was our coaching staff doing for six months five months of the season and not changing that swing and not changing that approach and if he went out the night after you had worked with him for hours on it and he did the same thing why was he then not sent down to Triple A two months ago like that's that's my question I that's a bigger question go back to why I said Turner W should have been fired in May okay all right I mean he should have been gone may like 15th there's a lot of validity a lot of valid you need you had a chance then to bring somebody in that may have helped I'm not saying Turner Ward was hurting um but he wasn't helping and you had a chance then to bring somebody in was helping you and let's be honest about Turner ward he was not their first choice their first choice was Jeff Albert right same reason Dusty Blake wasn't their first choice it was Mike madx both of those guys left for different reasons um and you chose Plan B and they're on two-year of Plan B where it hasn't really worked and they've stuck by it for some reason okay let's get to that because there are a few other things I know that we want to hit on in this podcast um again hey good good day today we can talk about Sunny later if you want but Sunny looked pretty good today he did give up a bomb to Jackson Merill but he looked really good to see against a really quality opponent like speaking of which Donovan solano's batting 300 I know I know that guy just like once every like three years he pops a 310 batting average out did you hear them today say they have zero people on their roster who have over 100 strikeouts this year Manny does have 99 but they have zero people on their team so their best header is the one with 9 but I know but I'm saying like think think about that's crazy yeah that's why you you put the ball in play that's a they're a really really good offense they are just up and down like and they don't even have their best player in my opinion ta so let's let's talk a little bit about the coaching staff um moving forward with the news this week that mosaka does appear will be back in 2025 now let me say a few things about this I had a couple people reach out to me asking I said we're GNA talk about it today kind of gave him a short a bridge version but I know I want to get I want to get your take on this moving forward as an organization and having a lame duck poo does not necessarily go like this right like all the people in the church does not necessarily unite I do not love this idea that you're bringing him back to like bridge bridge the gap that means he's making another year of offseason decisions trade d trade deadline decisions roster creation decisions 40 Man 26 etc etc which we have all seen absolutely be abysmal for 10 straight years um for the most part the roster part bad back to Michael Wala in the NLCS right back to Oscar tares all right I don't think he expected Waka to be used the way he was I I'm just saying though why was he the question was why was he on the RO we we can keep going through all these guys why are they on the roster why are they on the 40 man it's been terrible mismanagement of the organization so I want to get your thoughts on that and also do you believe that sorry your sister was just calling me um this means I I'm still of the belief alli's back next year that's what it tells me but what do you think about the rest of the coaches yeah I'll start with Mo um gold was vague on purpose with what he said I guess if that's fair I didn't expect mosic to be fired or leave the organization so if he's the Poo right um next year again does that mean that he can't say Okay whoever our GM is whether that's gers still whether that's bloom or Flores whoever it ends up being is making decisions and I'm still here because he doesn't want to get fired or doesn't want to get that's possible um that someone else is making the decision it is possible but explain that logic to me here here's the thing I mean the reason would be the wit wants him around and also a couple years ago like I think five years before the pandemic 2019 Mo's plan was to start stepping away um agre and gers was going to be the guy that took over at the time um that never end up happening covid and then um kind of the mess that was 2020 I think D 2023 derailed a lot of it um so if if this here's the biggest problem whatever their plan is whether it's Mo being in control or Mo maybe taking a step back but still having the Poo role and maybe the GM whoever it is is doing what normal GMS do which is run the team um maybe they're do maybe they're going to be running the team he needs to be clear about it like for me the the biggest difference in what the blues are how the blues operate and how the Carls operate is Doug Armstrong straight up said this is what I'm doing Alexander Steen is taking over he's going to be do involved in a lot of decisions and I'm leaving and he's going to be the one stepping in the car haven't done that they haven't given us a succession plan so it's just us assuming MO is going to continue to be that guy um if that's not the case if they need to be upfront about it and they're never upfront about anything if he is in his exact same role it's lunacy and just absolutely ridiculous and to be quite honest Builder wit's a good businessman you don't get to be as rich as he is without being one I wouldn't even understand it from a business perspective um so if that's the case it's a joke in my opinion now for the for the Olli I think Olie will be back before you move on to Olli you're saying that the ne the successor is gonna be Tom wcam that's what you're telling me okay I haven't watched off succession so let's not spoil it please um I'm just gonna move on and pretend I didn't hear that um uh geez that's a joke that's on you that's on it's not by the way no that's on you and everyone who still hasn't fin it they might be sorry about that without succession podcast um that's on you shut up I don't even want to I'm going to try and forget it anyway um I don't even oh for olly I think he'll be back if Mo's still here for sure if Mo decides to step down and once again these things are fluid today there was a report that Tommy fam wasn't going to be on waivers and he was on waivers like six hours later so that could be that could change especially if September goes in the tank um I think if Mo still here Alli is still here I think if they hire he Blom or whoever else it is he's just the name that's going to be most popular you let him make that decision if he wants to keep him great if he wants a new manager let him have a new manager that's what I would do um for the hidden coach everyone that's a hidden coach in that Dugout needs to be gone if it doesn't improve in September and that's not fair to maybe Brandon Allen it's not fair to maybe turn a w but they need they need to have someone new in there because what they're doing at best isn't helping and at worse is hurting well if you look I just just digging into the numbers Donovan declined each of the LA each year offensively the last three years newars declined each of the last three years Gorman declined from last year like Jordan Walker back and forth in Triple A like I I don't Dylan Carlson now out of the system Herrera back at Triple A only up because of cont contras injury which we haven't really talked about but everybody knows already thing about that like at what point do we start saying if it's all it's almost everybody they need to bring in outside voices um whoever the next smart young guy is that doesn't have a hitting coach job currently there might be an assistant hitting coach somewhere or might even be at College I don't really care bring that guy in whoever that is I don't know who it is and especially if like even just looking at your two Allstars the regression over the last three years yeah since I mean since Jeff Albert left that's who they who they need is who they got who left because fans hated him so like here's another question if Goldie is back does that mean Turner Ward is back I don't think gold is going to be back I don't either but that doesn't mean he that does not mean he W I tweeted today he's getting hot that probably means they're going to extend him to a three-year deal like I mean if you're if you're making no there's no reason for Turner Ward to be back if he's back that's a joke we agree we agree I just don't know I and also I'm not going to try to say that I know who's out there like Ryan lewick is a hot name at Triple A I don't know if he's the answer I want someone would love somebody outside the Cardinal way I think I want someone who's not in the organization anyone who's in the organization I would be against it same same honestly with whoever the next GM poo is other than he Bloom because he's kind of still outside the organization thinker yeah that's fair but do you think it'll be him do you think it'll be Heim blo do you think that's the move they're going to make I think if Hein blo wants the job he will get the job whenever it's available okay interesting you don't think so what do you think happen what does Mike G do on the day today he can go too but what did I want to know what does he do I don't know but Sam's turn award he's definitely not helping so bye all right all right um let's talk about noan you want to get into Nolan rado's comments today um we have been very critical of what he you know of the leadership aspect saying we need to bring in vets there's too many young guys on this roster we've been critical of his play at times of you've been very critical of his hle at times so I know this is something you wanted to get into and I think it's very valid and fair for us to do so and more so and I just want to clar more so body language than hustle is what I've been frustrated with but I'm going to read his quote it's a couple paragraphs here because I think um it's worth if you haven't seen it you might not have um this is from the St Louis Post Dispatch he said um he was after he hit the walkoff yesterday he said I think at the end of the day what I've come to realize is if I'm going to perform if I'm not going to perform well I'm definitely not going to be a cancer in this Clubhouse to anybody I'm still going to try to help I can still lead in different ways it may not be performance but I can still help these guys out spend time with them get to know them I feel like the young guys the energy has kind of helped me perform better because I just want to compete with them and enjoy it um that's exactly what I wanted to hear from him at the beginning of this year so there so if you've noticed if you follow him on Instagram he's posted a lot of pictures with Mason wi he's posted a lot of pictures with Pedro pz with obviously we know he's great friends with large Newar um it it was kind of clear to me that he was taking on more of this role just from what he was posting um because it seemed like and obviously that's something that we didn't get to see last year he didn't have social media but I Al after hit the walk-off yesterday the thing that was striking to me him and Mason win hugged for like 10 seconds like those guys seem to love each other and this like if he's not going to be arnado that hits 35 homers and has a 900 Ops and win Platinum gloves then he's got to he's got to step up in other ways and I think he's realizing hopefully that he needs to be the leader in this Clubhouse and it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to tell guys how to fix their swings but it does mean that you have to be you know some you have to connect with these guys you have to make them feel a part of the team and there were a lot of reports last year that they brought in Matt carer and guys because the young guys didn't feel as much a part of the team as they should have that's on guys like arnado and Goldie even if they weren't doing it purposefully because it's their job to have a cohesive Clubhouse so I think it's great honestly um I don't think he was ever a caner to the clubhouse and I see think that's pretty self-deprecating but also Kyle ree brought up a really good point on Twitter that he thinks this is the guy is finally realizing he doesn't need to hold the weight of the world on his shoulders out all the time and is it is it a coincidence that since he's seemingly Maybe started to let go of that a little bit and started to kind of just accept where he's at and be a leader and and be just compete with these guys like he said that he's hit two walk-offs in spots earlier this year where I think he would have struck out or gotten out because he has all the pressure of the world on him at all times um at least internally um I don't think that's a coincidence I think he's playing Freer you can just see it he's playing better like he's not the home run power hitter but he's having a pretty solid year a really good August um I think there's been a clear shift in how he's playing he's running harder which is once again a thing that we joke about but it's just his overall demeanor seems like a different player to me um which I'm really happy I'm happy for him and I think it's huge for the Cardinals moving forward if he can maintain this do you think he can carry that into 25 that same attitude with like so many question marks on this roster again yeah I do because I think think he's kind of starting to realize where he is in his career and I think that's when you're so great and he was so great for a long time 2022 he was amazing that was arguably the best season of his career if you like were to say he played in Bush Stadium and not corfield and not say obviously he didn't hit 45 homers but he was so great that it probably takes a year a year and a half to realize that you're a different player now you're not the 35 home run hitting player anymore he's not a gold Glover anymore he's not better than caben Hayes and Matt Chapman in the National League he's probably not going to win another one but but I think he's just kind of come to a realization of where he is and I would imagine it took him a long time to get there and I think that's why we saw the frustration that's why we saw him make Donovan go pick up a ground ball that he missed um why he pouted all the time because he was just so frustrated with where he was and not being great anymore that he wasn't willing to accept it yet and I'm not saying he's accepting being a bad player but I think he needs to accept being a different player and that's probably why he's batting 300 over the last couple months because he's not trying to be the 35 home hitter anymore because he's not and I think that's honestly great for them because you could have arnado making 21 million next year and batting fifth for you and being a guy that drives and runs in big situations and bats 270 280 but maybe only hits 20 homers or 15 home runs that can be a thing that you have um you can't have the guy that's batting 220 because he's trying to still be the 30 home run hitter can I say that I agree with with that last part about him hitting Fifth and all that with the caveat of then you better bring in somebody who can hit third or fourth who can hit 30 home run no you need to have you need to develop that that's what they need to do but I don't think they I don't that they've shown the inability to do that so okay if you're again moving forward if you're not going to trade him and you're GNA keep him as part of this team right you know he probably wants to win then you better go out and invest in the team again and that's that brings the circles us back to now what are we doing are we like that's that's all I'm saying you know it depends on how they view 2025 I don't want them to go out there they're not getting wotto and really the only guy out there that's that star that was did not mean that no I'm just saying if you're looking at the free agent class so for me am I really wanting them to go sign a middling a a maybe guy that and push back the inevitable again or do I want them to let Jordan Walker maybe bat third every day for a year and see if he can do it um maybe let Alec Burleson be the two-hitter every day let conas be the four- hitter every day and bet Aron A fifth or do you go sign Anthony santand there and say he's going to at least provide the power I don't know I would love that personally because I really like him but um I don't know the answer it depends on their Direction in 2025 but I think it's great that he like him and Victor Scott seem to be having some cool moments on the field I just think it's great that he's come to this realization I think it took him a while to get there but we've been harsh on him I think honestly justifiably so this year but this is the Nan arado that if he's going to not be great anymore and he's just GNA be maybe good then you need he needs to he needs to do things like this you can't be that intense guy that grinds the bat to a pulp if you're you know not hitting 35 homers like I agree with everything you said but what if at on July 31st Mo made a old phone call to Nolan and said hey we're trading you at the end of the year and this is the Nolan arado we've seen because he's getting traded I just want to put a tful hat on for no reason okay John M is not Forward Thinking so he didn't do that oh I I hope you're right I I just think that the right now I'll say it again I said earlier it feels like we're just so in limbo as an organization and I feel like that's because like you just said it he's not we're not Forward Thinking at all we're still years behind everybody else it feels like and it just feels like you're going to be stuck in the Quagmire of either just being okay or just being below okay and that's like how long can you continue to either say okay we're eliminating everybody and we're rebuilding but we can't really do that because you got guys who already have a lot of service time in the like I just don't know don't know the answer and I think that's got to suck which is why I would love to have somebody coming in taking over the Reigns starting October whatever the season ends that next day instead of Mo being another lame duck saying oh well we're gonna have our meetings again and our Retreat what do we do for next year oh well let's go sign four more guys that are 34 years old for the offense and the pitching they can't do that they can't do that again I understand I'm just saying though I think the fate of the next two years of this franchise because beyond that who knows um is reliant on Mason wi and Jordan Walker being your best players okay it's gonna be honest with you I think that what it has to be if this team is going to be a good team in 2025 those two have to be really good and that's how I'd act as an organization that those two are going to get every opportunity to be great and if they're not you're probably not making the playoffs but I'm not going out and signing whatever this year's version of Dexter Fowler is what if might honestly be Anthony Santan there what if Mike SCH wins the World Series what happens I'll be really happy for the city of San Diego okay all right I don't care dude I know but the the it was like phol was coming home the love that he was getting from local TV and radio stations and Twitter people like I didn't understand it at all like I get it that he played here I get it is a story I get it but boy it was made into like the biggest story we've seen since Albert came home in 22 that's what it felt like here's what I'll say What's the best season we've seen in the last like since Mike show took over so since 2018 what's the best season we've seen 2022 who was the manager I we agree you and I agree with that so that's my that's all I'm gonna say about it like I just don't Mike schel Mike schel he's a he's a fine manager he's not a bad one at all but he wasn't the one that moso wanted so he was gone what he represents for this organization is a martyr against John moso that's all it is yeah agreed I think so if you ha you like Mike Shel that's basically what it is got it interesting it's interesting it's true like seriously find me one person both you can't find me one that likes them both I guarantee you that um let's let's now segue even though it's all part of one big convo um smallest crowds in m in bus three like every night we're breaking that record of the smallest crowd I like 26 something today okay let's start there I had a buddy of mine who texted me today at the game and he said he sent me a picture and I sent it to you and he said it didn't get better he said Mike there might have been 7,000 people in the seats now you can't count them all I understand that so let's double it right let's just say he's off and let's double it that's 14,000 roughly I don't think it was that big from what I saw there was no way there were 27,000 L okay well that's not what they're saying when they 14,000 things right I'm just saying like 27 that's not the number I understand i' so let's give it the benefit of the doubt it was 14,000 people okay that's on a team who theoretically is in the race I know it's a school day I know it's hot I understand all of that I don't remember it it's been since I was in high school that I've seen Cardinal crowds like that that's what I'll say yeah I mean expensive I mean the tickets are cheap now well they're free on StubHub by the way all you have to do pay the fees pay the fees so they're $10 still um either way it's expensive to get into games like you have to pay for gas is expensive we all know that parking is expensive food is expensive if you want to take your family um and like people have to choose what they want to spend money on now more than ever we know the problem with money in this country is bad um and then people don't want to go watch the Cardinals right now because they're not all that interesting like I think the last couple nights they played some really good baseball but like it's not surprising to me like moso has worn his welcome in St Louis that's what it is I honestly think if H bloom or I keep saying someone from another organization came and took over and gave a Clear Vision of what the next three years would look like I think you wouldn't be seeing these crowds people are tired of what's happening in Cardinal baseball because it's just been a downtrend with a couple peaks in 2021 and 2022 for 10 years like it's just been slowly going down which BS these questions that I have for you and I'll let you address them however you want one why I mean we talked about it but again then don't bring moock back sorry hey you don't have to fire him but hey fine we're moving on we're going to let you resign this you said you want it out let's do that like that's that's one two like I don't understand then I okay if you're GNA bring in a Heim Bloom and we're gonna move forward there's zero entertainment value outside of the last two nights and so again it goes back to number one why why let Mo come back that's all I'm I mean it doesn't make any sense yeah I mean you you need a clear Direction like that's all it is to me like they don't have a direction they're in the middle and they're stuck in the middle and they've been stuck in in the middle since Ryan Hosley hurt his finger and blew a game in the playoffs like that's honestly what it's been or honestly last year they weren't even in the middle they were awful and people are tired of it and there's no end in sight that's the problem with J Mo zock here there's no end in sight um once he is gone then you can kind of see okay maybe maybe Heim Bloom brings in guys that can develop JJ weather hold to be everything he can be maybe quinnn Matthews who's on Triple A by the way which is awesome yeah he's on my list to talk about yeah sorry we get to that in a second T guys like that get somebody in here that you at least don't expect the same like we don't know if it's going to be better but we also know there's no unknown with joh Mo we know what it is you which which begs my second question that I'll let you address I lost it there for a second which is why I had to circle back around sorry about that which makes my second question if fans have like the apathy with St Louis Cardinal fans like die hard fans that you and I are and we even kind of like I told you I was watching the little League World Series last week instead of the Cardinals bad that's a bad like that's bad on me but that is what it is right and then I was watching Love island with your mom at night when the card like also bad show but either way that's what I was doing and so if if Cardinal fans are already like that and you already have an owner who's blaming the owner's son sorry who's saying oh well if you don't come to the games we're not going to spend money they're not going to the games and now we're doing it another year which means I mean how how many season tickets have you holders have you seen and I don't know if it's the same because of the circles you run in as far as your age but people I know who are 20year season ticket they're they're not getting them next year they've already canceled them they're like we're done we've had four seats for 25 years I'm done I'm going to either the the soccer team the battle Hawks or the blues that's what they're going to do or they're gonna keep the money and put it in their bank account so that's where like what what they're gonna trade for Mike Trout try and it also it Al circles back to bdub 3 saying that about the fans well that's fine I mean if you're threat the fans they're calling your bluff right now exactly they're not showing up so what are you gonna do you just gonna let this like one of the greatest hit sports franchises in history fall into disrepair because you want to prove a point that the fans aren't showing up because you're not investing into the team that's it's such a big question that it almost hurts my head to think about yeah I I we just don't know like I just don't know what they're going to do um and I don't know if spending money is the right idea like I just I don't even care about their money do develop someone that's good other than Mason wi something right yeah like Mason wi by the way we need we probably should discuss him maybe next episode he's freaking awesome he's been even better in the second half than he was in the first half he is legitimately the best rookie the cols have had since Dylan Carlson ironic which can I ask you this then I I'm glad you brought that up because we can go into this deeper next time but what is what is he doing and listening to who is he listening to what is he doing that's different like why is he progressing so much huh it's a hard question to answer like I just don't know it is it's an impossible I mean it was more roral than anything but I don't know I mean he's he's just so good I'm a massive fan his defense by the way earlier this year we talked about his weird heirs stop he doesn't make airs anymore like he's he's awesome like he's legitimately becoming everything we could have hoped if he has literally if he just repeats this season for the next like if he just continues to be this he do had to progress he's one he's the best Cardinal short stop since oie Smith easily um he's great what was I saying I don't remember what was the question shot Ryan Tero stop not even played Short Stop they had a man namel named um man named Rafael for call who played Short Davin I mean okay if he went the World Series MVP passes David Xin I don't know what you want me to say David Xin threw the 62 miles hour across the field I don't think they're comparable um no I just I I I agree and I think we should talk more about him next episode because I think he deserves his flowers and we need to give him a little bit more but yeah I mean oh I had a question spawning off of this off of the intendance let's just say since once again you keep saying they're not out of it they're not technically if the Braves go on like a SK say say the Braves go three and seven in the next 10 games and the caros go seven and three so that means they've made up four games they're three back okay um of the do you think fans show back up I don't I don't know if we're by if it's September so what would that be if it's September 10th and they're three games back will fans start showing up again I don't know by then it's college football season it's the NFL season I know s don't have a team there but again I I school's in full swing it's almost like I think people aren't even paying attention to what the Cardinals are doing right now I think that's how apathetic it's become with this fan base is I don't think that they're like watching the scores to see I think they've just said we're tuning on and then you got the problem with B so that's a whole the Diamond Sports Group that's a whole another level which is so strange because like I think it's a perfect storm or maybe an imperfect storm for the for thewit to have Team interest go down so so so much because he's kept everything the same for so long that you have people not being able to watch the games because of blackouts and B Sports and all that problem you have people not wanting to go to games because everything's so expensive and inflation's so high and groceries are so expensive and so is gas so people are deciding to spend their money on things they need instead of going to Cardinal games um and then you have the fact that the team's not good anymore so you have all those three things working against him and he didn't have the foresight to see any of them coming guess where the fans are showing up Ballpark Village they're not though they are I I had friends there not too long ago that place is packed every night and when the blues start it'll be packed again because everybody goes there to watch the games so guess how much money he's I like I don't even I don't know if there's I don't know I don't either I don't know I don't know the answer I I just don't care about money I don't care if he's making a lot of money I don't care if he's making no money I want the team to be good yeah agreed let's talk about I hope he makes millions of dollars and the carals are good that's great I don't care billions Hees make billions every year but yeah but Quin Matthews promoted Triple A um what a year he's had so far what a like that was the guy that we knew last year at this time that's the guy who threw 140 sub pitches for Stanford in the college uh Super Regional that was pretty much all we know right now just just pulled this off this is from Cardinal players Player Development he's a number 60 overall Prospect I don't think he was even on the radar as a top 100 Prospect wasn't even a top 60 pick in the draft right um eight and3 overall with a 2.27 ER and 22 starts and leads all minor league pitchers with 180 strikeouts um how many starts would you like to see them give him at Triple A before they say all right Quinn like this is your biggest workload of your life let's go ahead and or do you want him to just write out the year and let's build him up and see have weeks left two two or three weeks left two or three two or three probably that three starts four starts maybe i' say let him finish the year like he's progression that more advanced and more rapid and more like crazy great he's been then that's what I hope Cooper jery would do but he had injuries and setbacks and a lot of stuff um I I I just finished the year like that's what I would do or else don't bring him to Triple A um yeah because then you build him up like if he throws 130 140 Innings this year that's a guy that if he earns it it can make a full season of starts for you at the big leagues that's a reasonable like thing that ask him throw 160 Innings maybe only makes 28 starts in instead of 32 but that's something that could happen next year if he's ready for it we don't know yet I I I will say one of the things I've seen a lot is people hoping he comes up to the major leagues this year um he had a massive V Spike this year and that a lot of times is not great for your arm because you're doing something you've never done before I would be very against bringing him up to the mjag agreed I we just talked about the rotation problem that they have seven starters now um once Matts and Lynn are completely back but also like he he has had a massive jump in vo let's let him ride it out and low leverage and Triple A and see what he's at spring training healthwise and everything else that's what I would do but there should be to be fair there should be zero people out there talking about him coming up to Big Le I AG zero and but it's great for the col just have a story like this of some guy outperforming expectations that's great because we don't have that often yeah CU let's bring him up and ruin him then like make it work make it hard let's make his life harder because we haven't seen how well they've done that for everybody else and he could very well come up and be solid down the stretch AR want to see it I want let's let's see what he does in spring training next year and also let's not approach the beginning of the season and if he has a good spring training as if he's going to be your number one in the rotation next year could he eventually be hope so that'd be awesome but let's not go ahead and jump to that like we do with every other Prospect who comes up and is good in spring training so let's remember that and you know how great it would be if him and mcgrey next year are your four and five like even if they're 4.5 ER guys they're not $10 million that'd be great I agree but I would much rather see him and Tink start the season next year at Triple A TK him and mcgrey I think those I know I'm saying I I know I'd like those two and then if you need them let's call them like let's not go into seon know I don't know like if he shows out in spring training give him a chance why not all right this goes said we've seen this disaster before multiple times yeah but he's not I mean he's 24 years old like he's not he's not 21 he's not 20 years old he can handle it like Rett louder's coming up for the Reds right now pitches that throw for um colleges for four years are more advanced than other guys I don't think there'd be any problem with him coming into spring training with a chance to make the team okay that's a very valid point you're right on that and especially pitching in the uh what was the def now the defunct Pack 12 um yes yeah you want you want to hear something that's funny um I saw someone say well he's older than Paul schemes D okay okay well so you know Dylan Carlson what came to the big leagues at 21 but he was technically older than Mike Trout was what does that matter jeez these people're by the way man can that guy get some Innings under his belt for one season for God's sake who's that he's not developing dink hence he's not developing I know like he's great he's great when he's on the mound but the guy has not made five inning starts consistently for a year yet and that's alarming for whenever he comes up to the big LS we don't have to go deep into it I know we haven't been making our picks but the Cardinals do go to Yankee Stadium for three games how many home runs judge hit uh two um how many Twitter references of Dylan Carlson to us not having Wan sto I might just block his name um I I don't know but I I know just going off of that point I think it's really cool that the con are going to the Yankee Stadium regardless of how mediocre I guess they've they've been all year I'm excited watch that because I don't know if they've ever been to Yankee Stadium in my lifetime we oh so we you and I went to see them when Jeter was here his last yeah game but I don't know they've had to have been right I don't think so no I don't think so because the every the in League thing was you were playing one division every three years right from the other side and they never went to Yankee Stadium for that and then they've now changed it but they Yankees were here last year oh interesting that's an interesting thing first time in my lifetime I will not be tuning in for games as I leave at 5:00 A.M tomorrow for Chicago to go see Pearl Jam at rley field so I will not be tuning in but I will take whatever you have to say when we do our next podcast because I will have nothing really of substance to add about the series also a fun thing I yeah whatever also a fun thing about Paul gold Smith's one home run away from tying Joe de maio all time it would be cool if he does yane Stadium Sure it' Be Cool he does on yane Stadium that would be yes what if he had into the Monument Park and hit the dagio monument there's a there's a screen over it now oh yeah that's right it where it would be so stupid which is so stupid agreed by the way agreed also Monument Park and Yankee St is just anyone that was good on the championship team so can we let's talk a little bit about Aaron judge and just what he's doing like 50 home runs um already 50 yeah 50 home runs I think 52 right 52 52 home runs it's unbelievable people and then by the way we got Stephen A Smith who's devaluing it because he said wanto he has woto hitting behind him he doesn't Stephen A can we give you don't ever talk about baseball again every time you do it he's also a Yankee fan by the way which is he's not he says that there's no way he couldn't have watched one game like not one game he hasn't he has he hasn't and also just gonna clarify he has 51 home runs 51 I knew it was somewhere in that area so not as we thought but his his numbers dude and what he's doing is he 31 is that right 31 32 I think he's 30 he's 31 okay 32 just turn 32 I mean we you and I've talked about on here we'll continue to talk about he's an in my he's the first ballot Hall of Famer um and I'm just intrigued to see what the numbers he ends up with he's the best hitter I've ever seen not better than Otani hitter better that's what I'm asking see a better hitter than Otani yeah I'm asking that is the question dude he's so much better than Otani okay five years ago you told me it was Mike Trout so now you think Aaron judge is better than Mike Trout was mikp in war all time hitter dude and this and the best hitting Seasons I've ever seen are his last four years okay that's fair that's fair like and I'm talking Peak I'm not talking career he's not gonna hit 700 home runs that's an amazing feed in itself but we're talking Peak dude he has he has a 1.111 Ops last year I mean 2022 hit a 1.19 last year and he has a 1.1 N8 this year you want to hear something crazy the um League average Ops this year on base plus slugging is like 720 three right now he is slugging 731 if you took away his League leading 467 OBP by the way if you took it away completely and said we're just leaving that half off the stat he's an above League average hitter just for Dad he he he broke the stupid thing that everyone cared about Roger maris's home run record correct um which still I don't know why I got so much publicity whatever he broke that with a 686 slugging the big season that everyone talked about he has a 731 slugging this year he is 50% better slugging wise than that year where he had the year that no one would stop talking about even though it wasn't an actual record it was just a fake one they made up um he's the best non-steroid power header of all time okay I love it I love it I love when you make these like to the point concrete statements I'm in I think he I think he is the best non nonsteroid power hitter to ever live okay Albert Albert never hit over 50 home runs in a season I know but like is is Albert's 10 hit over 60 twice better than judges over like so did Sammi Sosa the non-steroid part didn't register I got that I'm just saying like if you I I'm just intrigued when when you look at judge's top 10 I'm not devaluing I want to see what it does how it stands up against the phol because and the miggies are we talking about maybe the greatest right-handed hitter in the history of baseball is what I'm asking um and Hank Aaron and fill in the blank right I I think if you were to look at Brian like just 10 years here so if you're talking because I think great once again this goes between the greatest and the best right I think Patrick Mahomes is the best quarterback to ever lived but I think Tom Brady is the greatest I think um Albert PS is the greatest hitter I've ever seen but I don't he's never put up Seasons like this ever like not even close against by the way tougher pitching like this so we're gonna so we're talking judge and bonds right like that's what we're talking about yeah that's I think so and my and and bond has the stigma of not even stigma he has the facts of well he never tested positive just he admitted it well I've admitted a lot of things in my life because I was forced into a corner he wasn't forced into a corner he literally didn't have to say a word I'm just I was he wasn't on trial either way dude he Dad okay can you do some quick math for me okay you got it 132 plus 106 uh that is 430 or 238 okay two there you go plus 157 395 okay 395 keep that number in your head 62 plus 37 99 plus 51 145 no whatever he has 142 home runs and L 395 games yeah that's insane that's a home run every three games that's better than a home run every three games that's that I think that's legitimately the best threeyear stre power stretch of all time not STS it's insane all right let's get through a few more things because I need to get out of here all right okay um Vietnamese food awaits for me so I'm g go get a shitty chicken sandwich from this I gotta get some sleep too because like our Uber will be here at 3 amm so I got to get some sleep um just a few things talking about other spectacular Seasons Ellie 2060 is pretty amazing like where he's at right now as well um were you I think Ellie 20 yeah6 O'Neal crw moving to center field do you kind of see a path where maybe Ellie ends up moving to center field also no he's one of the best defensive Short Stops in baseball by you think they keep him there at that like at that S I know like A-Rod eventually moved to third obviously ripk can I know that Ellie way younger I understand also A-Rod moved to third because he was playing next to the captain of the Yankees correct um correct if if he went anywhere else he would have played shortstop I no I think think he's the short stop until his body breaks down when he's 32 and SEC next thing is Otani the first 50-50 guy when The Season's all set and down oh yeah easily he might 55 55 um you want to hear something crazy Marcel Ozuna might win the Triple Crown and lose the MVP I know I was reading that the other day like if if he catches o tinan home runs he's gonna win the Triple Crown because migy won it and won the won the MVP right like he even though Trout's year was arguably better yeah right is he going to be so he'll be the first ever to do that do you think he do you think if he wins a triple ground he'll win the MVP I has let me ask you this because I don't know the answer is a Triple Crown winner ever not won the MVP okay then that'd be crazy right but you've never had a guy go 5050 either what's and otani's right there in the Triple Crown too and the craziest thing about them both they're both dh's uh's quite a bit behind him in batting a is it okay he was last time I checked he was I mean still almost hitting 300 but ozun is having a crazy year like he's been great just a few other things around baseball before we get out my question does he win it yes or no MVP I think they give it to Otani that'd be man you know what honestly that's the kind of um you know I won't even say it that's the kind of what's it called karma that Marcel might deserve you said it I did not moving on okay um couple other things another Legend and then in my mind I think your mind as well as a Hall of Fame retired that's Joey vad um are you I'm kind of happy he never played game with the Blue Jays I know he played Minor League games I get that but I'm kind of happy that he can say I retired only playing for the Reds um first legendary human belongs on some Mount Rushmore somewhere I mean besides just Canadian born players we need him on a podcast immediately yes agreed oh he will be Electric in sports media I don't want him on OB Network I want him on a podcast no he should not be just holding us uh microphone Down By The Dugout like Ortiz does and then chases down Players let's not do that let's let him let's let let's let Joey cook but in my mind Hall of Famer I don't think it's an argument I know the end of his career not as good but that happens to most players he was still like great in 2021 I'm I'm just saying I think there's a debate I don't in my mind there's no debate there's not him he's awesome I love he's one of my favorite players of all time to watch um and favorite people that's ever played in the sport I got to meet him watch which is pretty cool um I think him and Paul Gman in that same category of guys that aren't going to put up the crazy 500 home run caliber careers but are still Hall of Fame players in my mind they're right there you can't sit here and tell me either those two are worse than Todd heldon I won't believe you um so yeah fredd Freeman throw him in that I think he's a little better than those two but yeah I think fre that I agree I think Freddy Freeman has a legitimate case and maybe get to 3,000 hits I haven't looked where he stands but I don't know where it is either um okay last two things I have we haven't talked about it Scot service fired in Seattle that's always sucks when you're I mean we kind of saw it coming with that off offense best pitching staff in in Major League Baseball but there's no offense there edra Martinez though hired as the hitting coach I'm intrigued to see how that works out and if he is retained and if he does come back next year or this was just hey we need you to fill in for the rest of the season I I hate the firing to be hon I don't get it stupid um coach he's a great coach I think and I obviously I don't watch the manners every day so people could hate him in Seattle I don't know um but if oi isn't here he would be a guy I would be really considering to take over um it's sad it's even more sad that he found out on MLB network is what he said corre it was on like that sucks and Jared depoto is supposed to be his friend like call him before you call a reporter maybe like that should be something that happens um he's a really good manager and that sucks that you put him in a bad situation with that offense that we've all said from since the off season wasn't very good and the offense wasn't very good he got fired for it and you had a down Year from Rodriguez again like they're also still like aren't they still right in the mix of the playoff they're only three games out in the division I don't know where they are wild card right now but yes they they have way briyan Woo is an unbelievable [ __ ] stud stud they have the best rotation in baseball they're four and half out of the division four and half out of the wild card three and a half out of the division yeah there it is um yeah by the way the Houston naal man they just Never Never Say Die for them they're yeah well yon Alvarez that's a guy we could dig into at some point too that's a guy who does not get that's another guy put him on your potential Hall of Fame list like the numbers he yeah in his career I mean that's hard to argue with um last shout out I have and then I'll let you get to anything you have I'm super pumped Dylan Cruz is in the major leagues first home run the other day to lead off a game which is really cool yesterday I think and I love that by the way glad you said the Nationals his first game he was sitting second I love that he's leading off they're like we're putting you in we're getting ready for the future let's go let's do it I did that with James Wood as well he was B third when he got called out yep who by the way has been great I don't know has he was really bad well I don't know how he's been the last lately but I know that his like opposite field production fill in the numbers with the letter and the numbers that there are all out there I forget them all but it's like Elite from what I read the other day he he had his first pulled Fly ball the other day and it was a home run but Dylan Cruz is he's awesome I was having this talk the other day how cool would it be if the Nationals just gave woto like $700 million and had all of those great players that they got for him and then brought wotto back to be the DH that would be unbelievable do you think so they they've got the young kid who's the center fielder that's a stud um oh Jacob young I don't know do you think they maybe move CJ Abrams and then they go looking for a short stop at some Point move move him off of short or move him yeah move him off of short he should be the second baseman like they need to get a stop I'm I'm wondering like because I think that they're committed to Young in center field with Cruz and wood I mean vassel I I don't know how he's doing I have not paid attention Hassel Hassel sorry yeah he's he's one of those guys that has all the talent in the world but we'll see if he puts it together we saw him hit a nuke against Poria so yeah talk about oppos field power that guy got crazy opposite fi power I'm pumped for Dylan Cruz to be up there Paul schem poor guy was WI winning they took him out liby Dunn got pissed because the the Pirates blew it yeah I I saw that um I've got one more thing okay Francisco Lor is the most underrated player in baseball and I think he might legitimately he has a legitimate MVP case himself of the I think it's hard to Value like we talk about MVPs and it's always those Gody offensive numbers that will shine through at the end of the day but what he does offensively combined with being maybe the best defensive shortstop in baseball he's incredible um and I think he's uh he's a Hall of Famer too to me like he he's put up at this point a decade long stretch of being incredible um and then Bobby Whit Jr he's not goingon to win MVP because we just talked about Aaron judge being two great offensive players in one basically um but he's having like one of the best drawstep seasons of all time if you were to look at it defensively and offensively um so those two guys two probably the two best JS in baseball I think I saw today this my numbers could be off so don't quote me I'm not going to be correct but I saw on MLB Network this morning the difference between judge and wits OB or Ops is the same as wits number two in the American League as him in the 20th person in Major League Baseball is that not that that adds back to what a you want to hear even crazier Bobby Whit leads has more war than him because his defense is so good and Francisco Lindor leads the national league and War as well I know those two guys have a legitimate case to win the most valuable player and I think we're going to get get into an interesting part of who the most valuable player The Royals are in first place right now because of Bobby Wood Jr basically if they win the division it's hard to argue he's not the most valuable player when Aaron judge is playing with wodo was there any word on Reagan because I know they took him out of the game earlier early the other night haven't seen anything okay I haven't seen anything either so it must not hopefully it's not bad if or we I'm sure there's something out there but it hasn't been like Tommy John or anything so they just took what three or four from the Guardians who have been struggling I know so they're they're in first place now the Royals are I know yep going to be interesting see all right even if you don't want to watch the Cardinals at Yankee Stadium this weekend there are some great races I think the Braves and the Phillies play this weekend I obviously there are other other things out there watch the Royals if that's who you want go to I will be hanging out with Eddie and the boys so that'll be where I am what happens if we come back and the Cardinal swept the Yankees and the Braves got swept by the pH then you're gonna have a lot to talk about and I'm gonna listen they're gonna be four games back still yeah all right all right let's get out everybody thank you so much it's always great when you join us we're great happy to be back uh hit that subscribe button hit that follow button we will talk to you soon go cards