(Tamara): Okay, you can already look back on a really eventful life, even if you are only 50 years old. In 2016 you published a book about your life what you have done so far. I would like to thank you very much for it, because otherwise I would not have been able to research you so well. Then you also received The Bambi in 2012 and not only for your achievements in sports, but also for your volunteer work. One would think that now Kirsten Bruhn is simply leaning back and enjoying life, but far from it. Kirsten Bruhn is thinking about what other nice challenges she could face? On the 4th of October you won't be in the water, but on it. What exactly will you be doing there? (Kirsten): Yes, the Helga Cup 2020. It's an all-female sailing event plus inclusion. This means that in the so called SV14 boat model there is always one person with a handicap and one without. And I had the chance to experience being on the water three or four weeks ago. It's a whole new world for me, sailing. I don't know if I'm talented. I tried surfing before my accident and back then and went insane because I couldn't get this stupid surf sail up, and I didn't feel really talented. There was hardly any wind, so maybe that was a reason. But, as I said, it was a completely new experience for me, an experience that was a lot of fun. Every time on the second day of the regatta, we got a lot of wind and then there was action on the boat on the Alster. And, so I hope that I can excite and motivate others to just try things out that they have not tried before or may have considered impossible. And, now the north German Regatta association in Hamburg has expanded it's offering and added something new to their agenda, inclusive sailing, and I think that's great. (Tamara): Inclusion is a very important keyword for you anyway, of course, clearly, the word is coming up more and more often. In your book I found a great definition for it, I really liked it: "Inclusion is the unconditional membership of the individual in a group." I think that is very nice and a great goal. How far do you think we are on the way to inclusion in Germany? (Kirsten): I always like to compare this with the starting procedure in a swimming competition. We are always in last call about twenty minutes before the actual start, then we slide down one level and come to the starting bridge where we can get undressed. Then comes a long whistle, which means now you have to be finished, and I would say we're like that with this long whistle. So we are far from the starting jump, far from being in the water, but we are dealing with the topic. We try to understand, because many people reduce inclusion to disabled and non-disabled only when they hear inclusion. That is not everything that means inclusion, it concerns every human being.
(Tamara): Right. (Kirsten): Many people don't feel addressed at all because they have no handicap. But I think we still have a lot to learn, a lot to understand and a lot to enlighten. And as a result, we still have a long way to go. (Tamara): Yes, then it really goes above and beyond everything, whether these are people with a handicap, whether this is the gender question, whether it is the skin color, whatever it is, it is actually this topic...
(Kirsten): The complete, colorful tablet of being human is represented there. (Tamara): Which is actually the beautiful thing, but unfortunately for many people it still does not seem beautiful, because many are still afraid of some strange things. (Kirsten): I don't know if this is fear...
(Tamara): I don't really believe that either, but...
(Kirsten): It's incompetence, it's not knowledge. Sometimes it is also simply an acceptance of certain models from earlier times, because that's the way it was done and because somehow left and right went straight ahead, I don't know. This is just stupid. We are colorful and that is also beautiful. Yes, I also say that there are certain things that I don't want to do together with everyone. I also want to be together with handicapped people and I also want to be together with women, I don't have to mix everything. But even that is part of inclusion, to have the possibilities if I wanted to, that is crucial. And I don't think everything is good, not everything that Germans do is good either. That doesn't make me a racist. I think we still have a lot to learn.
(Tamara): That's right. And we are almost at the end of our interview. I would like to thank you very much for your time, it was great to hear so much from you. Is there anything else you would like to give our young athletes, who are on their very different, individual paths? (Kirsten): Yes, there is always a lot. It is very important not to generalize, perceive, understand and experience each person individually. I think this is crucial, because just because I had a bad experience with a Walter, does not mean that the next Walter will be just as stupid. I think these are very important basics. And on the other hand, should these young athletes ever drive a car and look for a parking space and there is a strange symbol on it like the wheelchair, and they are not wheelchair users or passengers in their cars are, then they have no business parking in this parking space, because it is a wheelchair parking lot and to use this parking space you need an appropriate identification card. And, you should also put the identification card on the dashboard and so it's visible from outside. This is something that I really consider ignorant, that I also consider mindless and stupid, that there are always people who think "I just wanted to ... really quick." (Tamara): Right. "It's only for a short time." So what? (Kirsten): The same with these mother-child parking spaces... Mother-child, I don't mind father-child, that's also something, which symbolically still has to be reworked because of the gender problem, but there's also reasoning behind that. And, I think you should understand this reasoning and accept it accordingly. And if you think you want to help someone, ask and wait for the answer. And, if then a "no" comes, then it's a no. (Tamara): And you don't have to take that personally, on the contrary, you can be happy that the other person can do it without help. (Kirsten): Right.
(Tamara): Perfect, super. Thanks a lot.
(Kirsten): Thank you.