Yes, Adam Fox is better than Marc Staal or Dan Girardi| Liberty Blue Podcast

foreign [Applause] [Music] welcome to Liberty blue the best strangers podcast in town I'm Andrew chonely alongside niggasraris we scream about the Rangers so that you don't have to this is episode 64 live on Twitter twitch and YouTube and we're available wherever you get your podcast as well we're recording actually on Thursday night as opposed to our usual Wednesday Wednesday Monday I don't know what days are anymore a few days early because Nick you are going on vacation now on whatever Beach you're going to are you open the over under will you see Michael delizano on the beach asking for someone's number over under 0.5 uh what would you like from Theory alone I don't know something along those lines you gotta you gotta get out of the lab and see I I'll I'll be I'll keep an eye out if I see a man who's been riding the bus in the AHL for 50 games a season for the last few years I'll I'll be sure to let everybody else know I have a question for you speaking of that yeah how do you record in a sweatshirt my dude I anytime I do a podcast by the end I am dripping in sweat if I feel like if I wore a sweatshirt I'd be dead well I have an air conditioner running in the other room and it is very quiet it's a very quiet air conditioner which is which is just an incredible invention top five adventure of all time uh essentially a quiet air conditioner that works really well oh baby oh baby we're in business so it's it's cool in here I got the sweatshirt on I'm boolin we're ready just curious because yeah like I said usually I end up profusely sweating by the end of this because you know air conditioners are usually loud so there's not a lot a whole lot going on even like all of the columns I read today trying to come up with ideas for what we're going to talk about today pretty much all of them LED with uh there's no hockey news to talk about and I've read like eight different columns today trying to come up with ideas and everybody's coming up with the most convoluted things like down goes Brown wrote five truths that are true about every single NHL team fan base and it was the most generic thing I've ever read every fan base is not as annoying as they think they are every fan base is not as loud as they think they are the refs are not out to get you like this is what passes for this is what passes for content in the middle of August so the fact we're doing anything alone I feel like we should be commended as opposed to the people who just write 1500 words of word salad of just like I gotta send something into an editor versus us who we're actually going to talk a little bit and use more than just one part of our brain to have a conversation it's well it's easy that kind of content is easy well and also as an aside refs are just bad at their jobs people kind of forget that right the reps are not out to get your team they are just bad at their job yeah they don't know how to referee NHL games it's not a it's not about hey they they don't like your your team but they sure do love the uh that other team it's like nah bro they just they just have not a single clue of how to correctly officiate a hockey nope and the NHL is ambiguous and inconsistent with what they tell the officials to emphasize on which only furthers the conundrum we Face where all we ask for is consistency and you can see entirely different games called excuse me you can see games called entirely different ways by the same Crews because the NHL just picks and chooses when they want to emphasize certain points so let's start with this because Arthur LED his column with like eight Patrick Kane questions in his mailbag I'm gonna ask you not not about his fit with the Rangers because we've discussed this he's coming off the hip surgery he didn't look particularly good as a skater do you think this is simply just as Baseline as this is easy to get people's attention and same thing from a Ranger's perspective of even if he doesn't fit the best like we talked we talked about a lot when they added him to the team in the middle of March it really kind of threw off the juju because they juggled the lines they drew rejuggled the power plays do you think this is more a matter of being interested in the name versus the talent at this point because that's really the only argument I could see if this was the same player but with any different name or resume no one would be asking about him no one would be clamoring to get him again or the first time around for that matter nobody would be CR like you know tears streaming down their face that this guy is in your that this guy is a ranger and he scored that one goal that one time that was relatively nice and was on the higher highlight reel if there was this if this was anybody else you know no one's no one's fighting for Andrew Kopp yeah like no one's arguing that Frank patrono was the was the the Savior the Rangers needed to to win the Stanley Cup like no one no one is saying that right it's a it's it's all because Patrick Kane is Patrick Kane because of the things he did yesteryear as opposed to the things that he can do now and it's showtime people love show time especially casual fans well all they know is Patrick Kane who scored a bunch of goals in Chicago a century ago who's won all those cups a century ago and oh he was a ranger we want him back oh my God it's Patrick hated Showtime but you know if this was anybody else if if this was the same player just with a different resume or a different name or if this wasn't an American hero Patrick hey maybe if this was you know Patrick Berglund or something just you know insert insert you're trying to make a generic European name and you've named it actual energy St Louis Blues Legend Patrick Berglund but it's just like you know if you if you insert some like European name all of a sudden there's there's just not that kind of Clara but because it's the American hero and that's you know that's it's very very cool and very great American players for some reason sure like they've had what three American captains and four right because it was jury Callahan McDonough now so yeah the Rangers do value that American thing so well like they that but that's the thing though is be if if he was not American and not Patrick if this was the same exact same exact player same exact person just didn't have the name of Patrick Kane and wasn't an American hero I the mailbag would not have started with Patrick Kane he's somewhere between like you remember when Patrick Marlow went to Toronto and he was totally done yeah he's not there yet yeah but he will be there in probably a year or two it's I understand the fascination a lot of people remember those days so the next question I have for you and this was in I want to say Molly's column and she wrote about that when she talked to Kreider at that hockey thing that was in Connecticut last week where all where there were a lot of NHL players at that beauty League no no no no that's like a league league there was like a charity thing in Connecticut last week yeah there was a charity thing in Connecticut last week and one of the things that they asked Kreider and fox about was something we talked about with Sam last year where Sam said everybody came in ready to go can we just get to the playoffs already and Kreider specifically mentioned that was worked against them last year that they did not get off to a great start oh didn't know oh Oh I thought thinking we were crazy but oh okay well I mean if Crider said it then okay or rolling like that's the thing that drives me nuts but I I bring this up because the Counterpoint to that was what fox said which is it's been a long summer I you got it's been a longer summer than I remember goudreau said the same thing that's good to summer in like four years because you got to remember they went into the conference you went to the conference final with San Jose he went to the two cups with Tampa Conference Finals with the Rangers shortest excuse me longest off-season in a long time for goodreau and then several others these guys year before and they all said well we've had to Stew on this for a while and I'm gonna have a chip on my shoulder about this but the Counterpoint to that is if you need these mental tricks to like get yourself psyched up to play 82 games doesn't isn't that an indictment of like the entire team if like we have to play mental tricks on ourselves to get excited like I understand these are people not everybody's excited to go to work if you drive a forklift if you're forklift certified there are days you have to lie to yourself and be like I can't wait to get into work today I understand that but to just go on and be like well yeah now we're angry you weren't angry before like you it took losing to the devils in seven games to be like wow six be better than this no they lost to the devils in seven games wasn't it six games it was seven games Andrew uh 99.9 wasn't it four to two it was new or was it seven it's been you know what it was it's essential like it's been such a long time at this point and it was such a like it was such an epic disaster fire for the Rangers seven it was seven okay it was such a it was such a disaster fire that like I it's it I forgot if it was six or seven but yeah I mean either way like I understand that like it's it's a job at the end of the day like being uh being a hockey player is a job and not every day is going to be all peaches and rainbows and and you're going to wake up you know oh I get to play hockey today oh man I can't wait it's like you know we we like to pretend that that's what it is because we're not pro players and I mean hey if I had the work ethic and the physique and the skills of a pro player like I would love to be a pro player but I'd have none of those things so I'm not but like regardless of what job that you have there's going to be days of just of you're just like you wake up in the morning you're like I would rather be anywhere I would rather be anywhere and that's every that's every profession every profession and if you if you wake up and you're like and you and you if you're if you're what if you're listening to us or you're watching us you think I don't have those days you're lying you're lying everybody has those days or you just you wake up and you're like I gotta I gotta do this I gotta do that I I can't I don't want I I'd rather be anywhere can I just call sit like everybody has that right so but at the but at the you know opposite end of the of the fence here why are pro players tricking themselves into being angry to play better hockey that doesn't make that like do whatever you got to do in order to convince yourself that you have to win these games like listen at the end of the day like it doesn't matter to me how you win them as long as you win them if you have to you know Jedi mind trick yourself into believing that you if you don't score eight goals in this one game that like things that like bad things are gonna whatever fine it's fine by me as long as you do the things you're supposed to do and win the game I don't care but why do you have to do that in order to perform well that's what I want to know like don't you aren't you competitive by Nature because you're in in a Pro Sport because you're on a pro team I mean listen like I played hockey the other day I am St this was like two days ago my body's in shambles still from playing hockey all I wanted we played three games I mean obviously it was like 10 minute periods and like you know it wasn't too serious but like I wanted to win I didn't I like that's all I wanted to do was win because I'm gonna need to intervene you're doing well I don't I want to win like if it's Checkers if it's hockey if it's whatever it is like I want to win I don't have to convince myself that like oh you know last year like wait wait like I like I have to lie to myself and like oh I have the ship of my shoulder now like I gotta I gotta go up like no like I want to win I want to do whatever I can to win I'm not a pro player so you know what do I know this brings us back to what Larry wrote like what was that at the beginning of July where he said what does it say about the team's mental makeup that they need to bring in all these old guys who haven't been in the playoffs in several years because they still need leadership it speaks to the same thing and funny enough you said that about well if I had the talent the ability whatever a couple weeks ago I was talking with my girlfriend her cousin and her dad about hockey and it's like well yeah I wouldn't want to play for the Jets either and her dad turned to be deadpan and goes you'd play for any team that would have you shut up just dead conversations right yeah he is correct he is and that's kind of the point that I think we're when we think about these games and the Rangers were better than the outcome they had last year and that's I think where our kind of confusion stems from in regards to this like mindset issue like what didn't click for you guys last year that's a an off season of stewing about is gonna It's Gonna Change frankly that's kind of where I found that so interesting it's like you guys were a good team last year talent wise and you've [ __ ] around all season you still had a really good record you still won I think 50 games you almost beat the devils in the first round regardless of the fact that they outplayed you for the most part and it and this is where we're at now is we got to bring in guys like Nick Benito and pitlick and God and Blake wheeler and Jonathan Quick because the group we have can't get up for these moments that's really the conundrum of the Rangers are kind of facing in terms of the fellas the philosophy the team building the leadership the intangibles all the stuff the old heads love to talk about but can't ever actually Point anything out specifically both of the both of these things can be true they brought they brought in guys like Nick Bonino and and Jonathan Quick and and whoever else to to be the the leaders in the hashtag granite and the Sandpaper in the locker room like all these things like that's that's fine if like I guess quick is going to be the the teacher of shurkin I guess I don't know if that's if that's what he's doing whatever sure he has rings I guess if Rings could talk then teach circuit all that he wants to learn fine on the other hand like Nick but he was just a good player right so at the at the very least their bottom six contributions that they at the Rangers have added over the course of the summer aren't just about the intangibles and that is one of the the biggest kind I think positives of the of some of the moves that they made during the off season is they didn't bring it Ryan reviews for three years at 1.35 million like Toronto did if they didn't give out large contracts to players who can't play hockey Nick Bonino is a good player right pitlick is a guy who can contribute on the fourth line you have Eric Gustafson a guy who who can perform very well on the blue line they they have new death pieces that can actually skate can actually play the game of hockey which certain guys throughout the years that their ages have acquired to fill out the bottom six haven't been able to do they've acquired these they've acquired these guys now so yes guys like Nick but you know intangible guy won a million cups and yeah he brings it all outside table sure but also good player for for the value and what he needs like what they are bringing him here for so if he if the Rangers love him because he's a he's a leader but also secondarily he's a hockey player fine whatever okay the next question I have for you is based on something that was in Arthur's column but I'm going to open it up a little more generally because someone asked him is Adam Fox already a top five Rangers defenseman of all time and my knee-jerk reaction was yes when when I think about the Rangers history and we we can talk this is an entire another aside this is a team approaching on 100 Years of history and has like 15 notable players in the entire history of the sport that's not great in terms of like you know Legacy and endurance and like yeah that's entirely because during the original six hour the territory rights stuff and not playing home playoff games and all of that kind of stuff that influences why it looks the way it does big picture but do you think this is purely just people not wanting to feel old in the same way like when they say well Gretzky's better than McDavid yeah he's got better numbers but mcdavid's a better hockey player than than Wayne Gretzky was do you think it's rooted in just the intangibles of I know what I saw you don't know what you're talking about or do you think it is a genuine well no because this happened and that happened it's the same argument across all sports it's not just about hockey it's about you know I I watched Michael Jordan in his prime and he could beat the doors off LeBron any day of the week it's arguments like that it's the same kind of ridiculous Barbershop conversations that essentially are just hot air like comparing eras is such a waste of everyone's time like Michael Jordan will never play LeBron James both in their Prime it's not happening you can't compare what Michael Jordan did you know in his in his championship winning years to what LeBron is doing what he did in Cleveland what he did in Miami what he's doing in La like you it's they're not the same thing similarly to the way Brian Leach played this board of hockey is different in a lot of aspects to what Adam fox is doing when he's playing the game of hockey why because the sport is fundamentally different it is the same sheet of ice it's the same Puck it's the same lines they had two lines it's not the same line well they had they had the two-line pass back in the day but the lines on the ice were the same they didn't they didn't add or subtract physical lines the line's still the same all the paint is still there but they had the two Line pass like they are playing different styles of hockey and comparing the two when there's like there's no way to compare without any kind of like I watched him play the stats say this or you know any other kind of just made up statistic or whatever that you want to include it's like you can't it's just it's it's such a waste to to talk about other errors because it's it's you're not you're never gonna get a good answer first of all okay so you're just gonna Counterpoint to you I have a Counterpoint he said Mark stall and Darren gerardi are better all-time Rangers than Adam Fox yeah that is an absolute farce like okay listen listen listen if you it's one thing to compare all-time greats like if you have you know if you have trouble figuring out okay is is is Adam Leach better or worse than Adam Fox Brian Leach I'm sorry not I said Adam Leach if Brian Leach is better or worse than Adam Fox that's a conversation that's that's never gonna find a real answer Mark Stahl Dan Girardi brother listen listen dude neither of those guys was ever oh Nora's finalists that's that's it that's all I need to say neither of those guys was never a Norris finalist neither of them ever won a nurse the peak was danger already making one All-Star game like that was the peak of Dan gerardi's Rangers tenure listen I'm whoever whoever asks was that who who was that Brooks that answered it like that or is it somebody ask that question okay that was Arthur I'm gonna I'm gonna find Arthur staple and I'm going to bill him for my therapy sessions because this man what what are we talking about here what are we doing they never won anything with Mark Stalin's majority like they made a cup fight they were part of the reason they didn't win anything what are you what are we doing here that does anybody not remember the Dan gerardi literal Pastor Ovechkin who scored in the empty net because Lundquist was like what are you doing dude I'm losing my mind this is listen I can't believe we're doing this right now it is it is Thursday August 10th and I am losing my mind because staple has in has officially made me lose my mind it is it's Bonkers Dan's are already selling in game one against La where he just slipped past the puck to L.A dude first like you can't make it up like that's the guy these people are defending because they liked watching him play the style he played that I think is kind of the I think that is hockey specific because like the baseball heads like you know they're like well Pete Rose did the blah blah hockey guys are there are people who are very loud and obnoxious about the fact that they enjoy the violent aspects of hockey that they think guys who do the blocking shots that they that do the kind of extra effort stuff that those guys are inherently more valuable even if they're not good at hockey because the best players don't do that type of thing I understand why the old heads love danger already and love Mark personal objectively Mark Stahl was never the best defenseman on his own team Dan Girardi was maybe the best defenseman on his own team one time in his entire tenure as a ranger that cannot be a top five player in the history of your franchise at a position I'm sorry just objectively that's like when Yankee fans start doing like well no you can't do that because of Mariano and Jeter and Yogi Bearer won 10 World Series Yogi Bear 110 World Series in a different era that's when you start losing people is when you start going across the generations and it's just like you said there is no right answer when you talk about all time but Mark Stahl is still playing hockey danger already retired what four years ago now five years ago now neither of those guys is the reason the Rangers ever won anything neither of them ever won any individual Awards Adam Fox is already on Pace to be arguably the best player in at that position including Brian Leach and is going to have a real argument of being one of the five or ten best Rangers ever not just defenseman ever I think the the ultimate argument is this will the Rangers ever retire Mark stahl's Jersey the answer is no I hope not I I better hope not will they retire Dan gerardi's Jersey I better hope not but they they might they might I hope not but they might will they retire Adam Fox's Jersey unequivocally a hundred percent yes if he continues to play like the the way that he has and he hopefully he'll have a long career playing the way that he has for sure right he will 100 without a shadow of a doubt have his number retired and be in the rafters for eons to come that that's the end of the argument if the answer for Mark stall is no and for Dan gerardi is hopefully no but no other rangers probably yes down the line because Rangers love their love their battered Warriors and and whatnot then whatever but Adam Fox is unequivocally one of the best players in the sport forget the Rangers in the in on the planet one of the best you're telling me that Mark Stahl was one of the best players on the planet staple staple Arthur yeah I I I I understand the old head inclination to be like nah he's got to do more stuff but like he's already been at Norris finalist twice he won the Norris already he was amazing in the playoffs two years ago when they went to the Conference Finals he didn't have a great Series against the Devils but you know it give him more time I I think Adam Fox is going to end up being better than Brian Leach and yes I'm probably going to get yelled at for that but the game is more inclined he is going to end up being more valuable it's just a matter of if the Rangers win anything or not I think ultimately we'll decide if it's the same argument what I'm not even gonna like even slightly indulge the people who are like Rick that was better than Lundquist because that's just nonsense it's just because because like he won a cup and that's great and all but like lonquish a better Talent Adam Fox is a better Talent than either danger already or Mark Stahl okay the last question I have here before we can riff or whatever I think people are very kind of just overlooking the fact that backup goalie had an 875 safe percentage last year and look effectively done and everybody's just assuming that oh he'll be fine he's going to get a new landing spot and like Vegas is a better team than the Rangers uh the Rangers concede a lot defensively and for some for everybody to just kind of be like oh it'll be fine because of his track record it's kind of like that's 20 games we're talking about your backup has to play 2025 games this year and like I'm not exactly enthusiastic about the prospect of Louis domingue starting 10 games either I mean there's a reason Louis doming was in the AHL all of last year and that Jonathan Quick the Kings who were trying to win said we got to get rid of this guy well they they a lot of the reason they got rid of them was because of the contract but yes I like that that's that's also true like he was also just bad the the kings were like oh this guy's making a bunch of money he's also really bad we gotta get rid of him now so I it's it's the same thing with Patrick Kane of this guy one cups during the Renaissance so what like how bad could it possibly be my brother like it's 2023 about to be 2024 the Renaissance was a long time ago it's time to move on it's time like I I that's it's great that Jonathan Quick is again another American hero another you know another guy he's not in the Olympics he was really excited um American hero but like you know it's great that he can be the leader in the locker room and he could be the teacher that tristurkin needed because Lundqvist didn't do enough of that like it's the all these things are great can he play because the answer that we saw last year was a big fat note big fat no Vegas literally won the Stanley Cup and he was terrible he was so bad I think they could eventually eventually Benoit Lair has to run out of pixie dust right I mean like he they've had bad backups at times like they've definitely been points like the Marty Buran ears were kind of lean there was the year they had Andre Pavlik who was pretty bad they've had bad backups in recent years it's just they've gotten decent hit rates they had Talbot they had ranta they've done relatively well on the bet you already have they've done relatively well on the backups and I think people just assume that no matter who they get in there is going to be decent if they get like an Andre Pavlik 890 890 would be an upgrade for Jonathan Quick like we said 875 save percentage last year it's it's gonna go up down to one of those things where like early December the Rangers will realize oh oh this dude's done no this is not gonna this is not gonna end well and there's no chance of that there's a real chance of that happening this season where it's just like oh we can't keep doing this yeah and we see Louis Deming which again that would not be great either because no Louis deming's been in the AHL for most of the last three to four seasons like it's great he got the he got in those playoffs for the Penguins but there's a reason the Penguins lost that series ultimately yeah he tried his best well let me let me tell you something oh that that I I will never forget that blue line goal that he gave up like it was just it was I forget who scored it too just just threw it on that well which is also which is hilariously enough the thing that the Rangers never do is just kind of throw it at the net and see what happens which you know that has been Puck retrievers that's the issue yeah that's why they don't do that like on a team like Carolina or Calgary or New Jersey a team that you know gets the puck fast and recovers and resets it makes sense to do that the Rangers have maybe one guy who's above average at that and Crider and he doesn't do it that often like if Kreider is not deflecting the puck more often than not he's just not touching the puck in the offensive zone which is frustrating but I digress I would love for the Rangers to shoot the puck that's that's it that's the end of the sentence because they don't do that they will pass it 95 times until either Panera Chad have a wide open net to which they will score or they will lose the puck and then the fans at MSG sarbooing those are the two options like that's that's that's what the Rangers offense is hopefully Lobby like a fix that but God like please just shoot the puck every now and again but like that that goal was was so funny on so many different levels that's that's your solution this guy this guy is your solution if the backup that you signed who is that was two years ago right who is clearly done continues to be clearly done okay all right all right yeah look you get Memoir the benefit of the doubt but you can only do so much of what you get like most of the guys they've given him recently were younger guys who like just needed reps and experience we're like you already have ronta Etc who turned out pretty well uh they haven't done the old guy I mean they did hawak last year and then the last old guy before that was what Marty Barron it's been a while since they've done the old guy Alex old per chance God you're making names up that's not a real person it's that's that's Florida Florida Panthers Legend Alex old you're making guys up okay the last question I have for you and I just thought of this while you were talking because you were talking about conceding goals if you could pick the song that would play When the Rangers conceded a goal what song would you want oh oh no oh no because my first instinct was lit just the Benny Hill circus music and they have to miserably skate back to the bench and get yelled at while the Benny Hill circus music players Weezer I think that would work okay go here it goes again I I I I really think that that that could work because it the the chorus is just here it goes here it goes here it goes again it's like that yeah that's that's the Rangers defense for the past 25 years here it goes again I'm still pressed he said gerardi installer better uh dude I that's staple staple I'm billing you I S I promise you I'm billing you oh it's it's this is not a threat it's a promise you are getting a bill in the mail for what you've said that is I I I'm also going to build from for for my just for Med because I that I'm getting gray hairs just just getting mad about that that that's he's Arthur stable has ruined me that's that's the moral of the story uh all right that'll do it for this week's episode of the Liberty blue podcast we're available on all the major podcasting platforms YouTube as well if you go over on YouTube there's usually a little added value today you know there's no hockey to talk about so no visuals but during season we'll get a lot more stuff going on to make that experience a little more engaging uh we'll see you guys soon drink water you know it's hot out there Summer's winding down enjoy it while you can uh we'll see you guys next week later