that's how Victory sounded on talk sport irland nil England 2 goes from Rice greish vers winly Carley but the pre-match buildup was dominated by the fact Lee carsley refused to sing the national anthem he wouldn't do it says he never does it says he didn't do it when he was IR played for Ireland um but it's fair to say it split the football Community uh players managers and journalists to be honest as well uh there was very hard-hitting piece by Jeff poell in the mail yesterday saying he should have been sack before the game Jason Burton the telegraph uh was pretty much on Jeff Pal's side uh we look at Harry rnap today in the in the sun he says it doesn't matter where you're from for me if you're in charge of an England team you should sing the national anthem although he does sort of let carsley off for yesterday he said that was exceptional circumstances but once we get round to playing the Spain Iceland uh Finland on Tuesday whatever he should be buting it out that's what we expect Henry uh you've been uh tweeting about it and actually said you didn't care which shocked me no end to be honest because as a proud Englishman who loves your country I thought you'd be beled want to Belt it out well first it's more a British national anthem than an English one um secondly they're far bigger issues out there and as I often return turn in times of uh of trouble and needing Clarity to uh to Dave kid in your great paper who said um while England are playing like 1970s Brazil in the first half who cares whether he sings that the national anthem or not I think opions are welcome in our paper Henry well there you go well congratulations I saw all your opinions I I bring Henry Winter tweet from some years ago uh 2012 I'll go back to this interesting to note how many England players are singing the National Anthem looked like all of them fa and Hudson desire for good ambassadors that's what you said 12 years ago so you were right behind everybody singing national anthem back then well actually Sean it's far more nuance that is because the fa and Hodson have been talking about it I think it's it's an individual's um right uh but also Sean this is the problem is you drag the debate down there far bigger issues out there the bigger issues was a fair debate some people were saying it a death debate it was it was a genuine proper debate that was worth having it it it was a very Lively debate um but I think the England fans certainly the ones I've spoken to that you know they're interested in the England manager's coaching ability not his singing ability I mean do get Ed Sheeran in as England manager but plus also how do you actually sack someone he hasn't even got a job yet I the issue is but consider him a foreign manager though Henry absolutely he's a for me he's now a foreign manager but but I know you never take any interest in the under 21s I didn't yeah I did but you but but had you noticed that he didn't sing them in the under 21s and is is there much of an issue between seeing it with the under 21s and I think it then just becomes a PR issue because of the greatest scrutiny on the on the national na team on the on the senior team I think what the England fans want particularly those who spent a lot of money traing around Germany in in the summer they want to see an England team far more on the front foot they're not bothered about whether uh the England manager actually sings The Anthem they want him to actually have a balanced team did you think that England team would balanc yesterday did you think they played with sticking with this for now no I'm just saying that but the big but sorry but it's not as important issue before we went on air offered me another that's coming up in November which I find really interesting poppy gate is going to be it's going to crop up in November explain uh it will November the 17th England play Ireland at Wembley which will be the first Sunday after Armistice they might do it on What's that the November the 10th so that will be absolutely an issue and I'm sure the fa I don't know they might have been focusing on Anthem gate but poppy gate we always have poppy gate but it's fascinating isn't it would you expect Lee Cosley to wear a poppy would you demand he wears a poppy you can't demand cuz I think that's disrespectful to you know if I you have pretty strong opinions about iies personally I would absolutely wear a poppy but that's absolutely my my individual choice and I think if we're I mean I've I've sort of wrote a book on this and if you talk to Veterans effectively what they fought for was freedom freedom of choice freedom of expression and absolutely if individuals I would assume he would wear a PO I would be very surprised what would you say if you didn't I'd be disappointed but I I find this different from the anthem I think this is this completely different from the an Serena Vigman doesn't sing it he didn't sing it with the under 21 that's different we consider we thought he was an Englishman who just happened to play for isand that's why I consider this different to Sven and Fabio Capello those sorts seren vman if you like they are not English does it make him a better manager does it make him better able to actually coach the team to have balance in the team to make sure you got a left footed player got off to a bit a bit of a bad start I thought from a PR perspective okay but I mean I'd rather J AB we're just talking about this particular um have you seen the headlines this morning uh I think in your paper as well about you know the fa it's not an issue for them yeah yeah I know I say back of the back at the mail say it won't cost his job not I'm not saying he didn't sing the National Anthem with Ireland in 40 caps there he didn't sing it with the under 20 on he says he's in the zone in focus on it is your view of Wayne Rooney who played 120 times for England initially didn't sing the national anthem and you're saying that Wayne Wayne Rooney is one of the most patriotic individuals who played for England Gary Neville tricky one if you're the if you're the England manager I think you should be I think you should be singing it personally that is my view not yours and it's the view of Gary and Newcastle Henry it was Sean and Henry it was so good and correct to see all the England team sing the national anthem and a lot of the fans also think the same it's not a hard thing to do you have the top job and you should lead by example um but what if it makes him a lesser manager because he's not focusing on the game why does it make him a lesser manager I think that a side I really do I think with Gary actually it was interesting because Gary Neville I think there was one fa suit who said to him you've got to sing it I think it's an individual Choice Rooney sang when made England Captain but not before it discuss says Don from Brixton is that right that's interesting I mean I certainly know that you know the first few games he he wasn't seeing it did s Al Al sing it apparently not but we we we don't have any evidence well I went through the I went through the footage the footage actually is is amusing because he's actually very much of the back of the the Germany players in the England players but it's focusing very reverentially on the Royal box no one's Sayang it in the Royal box yeah nobody are you saying the royal family aren't patriotic Sean uh Henry in fact will be in the royal boxs on Tuesday will you be singing it with gust well this is a question do you sing it when you were at prep school did you sing the national anthem were you told to sing it did you raise an objection say I'm not too big on that sir I think I'll not bother no absolutely say I was a quir boy and we used to S sing at ceremonial occations but then I I would absolutely say it's an individual's choice if his argument that is totally focused did you actually notice he was um taking uh throat lenes is so I thought I thought maybe he wasn't singing cuz he had a sore throat I thought that is taking his excuse a bit what when he went and sat in the wrong Dugo oh what a start that would be that was that was all you need that was great but Sean this is the problem with England and England football we actually haven't talked about the positives on the pitch we going I'm on this at the minute Tom from sorry the furo over national anthems and celebrations is nonsense Sven and fabuk Capello didn't Sing the anthem and plenty of Club players don't celebrate scoring a goal against teams they previous represented a non entity of a storm in a te cup you see that's where I disagree I think it's a legitimate but that's because you're a SP edor it's a legitimate discussion no it's a legitimate discussion people were calling it a DA debate it's not a DA debate it's a debate which gets people lots of people at it and what I was talking to you there about divides the journalism Community some of the big beasts previously Jeff pal was one of them when we were on the road as sports right Steve Howard um Brian wno yeah Marley would not have survived this under that uh scrutiny from those sort of writers when papers if you like were more powerful I I I thinkand it's a different Med land now because because it's all sort of filtered out because you got social media you've got podcasts you've got radio programs like this it's not simply about the focus on what the big beasts what do they used to call them the grand Dukes no Grand Dukes are a chief Sports writers okay but they were probably weighing in as well the grand Dukes had a I mean do you remember on the wall at the fa they had a if there was an issue with the a big issue with England they had the 10 phone call phone numbers of which Grand Dukes whoever to to ring first to ring and discuss it yeah and they and they would have done I don't I think Cary would have struggled with this um haven't got a name on this walk but Olympic gold medal winners often don't sing the national anthem says this text Formula One drivers don't sing on the podium either it is personal choice the media need to stop ganging up on carsley back back the manager I don't think it's ganging up I just think it's a debate but also if we are ganging up on an England manager are we going to get the right England manager I mean if Eddie how is looking at this and say if they're getting a Ferrari over whether I can sing or not do I want the job we have to have a more grownup debate Sean we're having one I thought are we not no cuz I don't agree with you a little bit there there are a few Union Jack shaped toys coming out of your Prime final word from Steven from an Everton fan who I think sums it up for all of us about where football is these days national anthems nothing to do with football they're not playing for king or country they're playing for money and pictures on Instagram I think it's probably halfway between the two maybe anyway I think you should sing it but there 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