welcome to the snake and Badger show a weekly podcast where a cynical brother and an optimist sister explore one fictional and one non-fictional topic each episode we always start with the fiction topic first and this week Daniel has it so take it away okay this week I want to talk about something that came up last time which is flipping time Turners how dumb the time travel mechanics in Harry Potter are so I didn't look into the cursed child because apparently that is a little bit worse even than the main series but I mean the main series is also bad enough so I think the only time that time Turners I think ever come up is in the prisoner of askaban which I mean that by itself is kind of stupid because like what you can like it doesn't seem like they're well don't really explain it very well which is part of the problem but also yeah it seems like it well at least in the movies I don't remember how the book goes but it's determined by how many times you rotate the thing but if you like if you just rotate it like 10,000 times can it go back to like pre-World War II and stop all the grindal things from happening yeah I don't know it's all but anyway they's brought up I mean the way we're introducing to them is that dumor gives her Mindy one so that she can go to all of her classes it's just like I mean Dumbledore is known for doing a lot of irresponsible things but that's like what the hell is that yeah oh my God yeah and then then at the end of the book obviously Harry and Hermione go back in time to save Buck beak but then you this weird situation where cuz in the books at least and I think in the films too it was clearly St that they killed Buck Beek the first time around but the second time they saved him so or is it a her I don't remember anyway uh so the question is are there two alternate timelines is it one timeline that got Rewritten or is it or for some reason is it the case that no I guess it doesn't make sense never mind I'm not going to say that one but it's just so weird and doesn't make sense at all within the context of the book then also but then there's also the like all this weird it's not Paradox what's it called I don't remember what it's called but when time travel things feed in on themselves so that the future thing happens because the past person saw the future version of themselves do something and so it's like where did the loop start and so it's all yeah but that happened with Harry seeing who he thought was his dad do the petronis against all the Dementors in the lake and then at the end he just like I mean the reason I could do that is because I saw myself already do it so there's that and then it's like so Harry just went from barely being able to produce petronis for most of his school year then at the very end he's able to do it on like 50 Dementors at once and it's just because he believes he can do it for some reason and it's all just it's all just kind of a mess and then you think like there's so many situations where time Turners make sense to use in the entire series even after that point because like do you want to go back and time to save everyone from dying in the last battle I don't know and or even like Cedric like yeah and Cedric and like once Harry figures out that he's the last piece that once Harry figures out where all the hor cruxes in are and that he's one of them shouldn't he just go back in time and fix all and just find all of them before Voldemort even gets to power again and it's all like that would have been a much smarter version of the seventh book as if they Ed time Turners to go back in time to before Voldemort came back to life in the fourth book and then got all the hor cruxes by then but that would taking a little more setting up probably but yeah yeah I don't know and I don't think does it even come up at all doesn't come up in the Fantastic beats films at all do they I don't think so not that I remember yeah it's just I don't think so it's just strange and it's clear that other people have access to time Turners well sorry it I think it stated in the book that there were other situations where like somebody was sent back in time But the spot they were in there was a wall there before and so they were like killed when they were stuck in a wall I think I remember something like that or so it's just it's just a big old mess and I don't even know but I guess that's kind of true about the whole series and how the rules of the world work for the most part yeah anyway you haven't said anything this whole time so oh yeah I bet um yeah I well I think it's interesting because there's always that like warning if there's ever like a discussion of time travel in you know a film or book I feel like there's always is that like well you have to be careful because you never know like what can happen and I feel like Hermione at least it's the whole not being seen thing she warns that but it's not necessarily like like in most other books they' be like well we can't do that because it's just going to mess up the way things are supposed to go like and stuff like that so I think it's really interesting and I'm like it is kind of true I mean I like I personally do like serious black but um I'm like yeah like why why was he so important to save and buck be I mean again I love them it's not like like of course I'd rather have everyone saved but that's the point it's like why are they saved and yeah like like you're saying why did we not use it to save Cedric or and especially because those warnings in other like films or whatever is most often you can't save someone's life because it disrupts the way you know things are supposed to go like so it's just I don't know I think it's very strange and of course with both of them they're innocent lives and so I get that too but so was everybody else that died in the Battle it's just it's it is really weird and it's like I feel like it would be easier to accept if there was more explanation around like why they're not used more often but it is it's also insane like you were saying at the beginning that a Headmaster would give this to like a how old are they in that book what 12 or 13 yeah 13 or 14 somewhere around there okay yeah maybe it's up but like what that's insane and like regardless of if Hermione is because I believe that she was always like trustworthy towards like all the you know teachers and everyone but it's like that doesn't matter it could get into their wrong hands someone could see that she has it some out and sneak it and steal it and then use it for like horrible things yeah and especially the idea that like the whole book is oh this sketchy dude is on the loose like what if he took it and what if he was sketchy and took it you know I mean we know he's not but it's like what it's so insane it's so irresponsible yeah and then if you think about it then the time Turner even just one time Turner by itself is more powerful than all the deathly Hollows combined pretty much oh yeah you can go back and stop people from dying in the first place so you don't need the resurrects and stone m and you can probably use it to disappear in place so you don't need the cloak and like in the middle of a duel if you just get hit once then you could just quickly turn it and then go back and then realize they're about to do that and then hurt them yeah and know what move to do so it's it's all this nonsense it is true yeah I think that's one of the things that like wasn't super thought out um which I yeah again there are a few but it is interesting like how I feel this is one of the bigger things that wasn't thought out for sure yeah we can just expand this out to a bunch of different series that were ruined because of time travel and like the number one that comes to my mind was the MCU with endgame oh yeah like well I guess spoilers for endgame for anyone who has again I guess but like the entire premise of endgame is that they want to it's hard to even explain because they want to go back in time to get the stones from different places in time and then bring it back to the present after everyone is snapped out of existence to bring everyone back but I mean first off I don't you go back in time to stop Thanos from snapping them in the first place yeah and the only excuse I have that is that Tony Stark has a daughter now and he's like oh I I just love my daughter so much I can't live in a world without her and I'm like dude I mean just on Earth alone three and a half billion people disappeared like I'm sorry but your daughter's just going to have to non-exist and you can yeah you can just go back in time and marry the same woman and have another child by her it's like exactly what are you even doing yeah and then there's another thing which has brought up all the flipp and time is that they go oh man we only have six or some amount of pin particles so can only go back to specific times and it's like why don't you go back in time to a place where there are multiple pin particles you can just take them and then you can go wherever you want whenever you want and it's just so dumb and then you have the third problem which is that once they go back in time then the Thanos that they're fighting at the end of endgame isn't the Thanos who snaap them at the end of infinity War so it's like there's not cathartic in that way at all it's all it's all just really stupid it's real yeah and that's just one example because like the most recent Indiana Jones film I mean it has a billion problems with it but one of them is that it's a time travel movie and it's like why is Indiana Jones in a time travel movie that doesn't make any sense in the first place this is sad because I've seen that and I don't remember a single thing about it yeah it's it was pretty awful and then Star Wars also has time travel now technically I mean they had it in the rebels I think or the Clone war is one of them I don't remember like there was a character who died but then there's this whole system called the world I think it's called the world between world or something like that and then this person brings them out at that point in time to stop them from dying and it's like okay we have time travel in Star Wars now that's oh yeah stupid and it's just man I just hate time travel like the only times it works are in like a contained story where it's about time travel specifically yeah yeah and pretty much anything else where you try to incorporate it into it is just it just ruins everything else it's so true I will say one of the positive examples which I actually never um I don't think I ever finished this TV series but oh no I can't remember what it's called either but it's basically about a flight that like disappears but they never they don't age and then they come back like five years or something like that I know what you're talking about but I can't remember sorry but yeah I that's like one where it's like it starts out that way so it starts out with them coming back and then like them having to re figure out like what happened and then like the main character spoilers is like their her either fiance from then oh yeah fiance is like married to her best friend now so it's like a whole thing like it's just you know it makes it interesting in that aspect but yeah I I will say more like like the movies they're talking about more action-based and like bigger like really big stories um like action and fantasy is it does kind of just mess it up and it's just stupid I don't know I do think it's strange and know I think there are situations like if you just don't do pasttime travel but you can only go forward in time I think that works fine because that's pretty much just like cry sleep in sci-fi stories that's kind of the same thing except they just go to a different place entirely so whatever but yeah and like scientists are pretty sure that we can go forward in time well it's it's more it's just it's just way more questionable to be able to go back in time than it is to go forward in time because going forward in time you can just preserve your mind and body and just in a cryo sleep like I said yeah like futureama or something yeah going back in time yet then you have all these problems of are you rewriting a a history that's already happened is there one timeline like is there one timeline that you're rewriting or are there multiple timelines that Branch out from that or or is it an alternate reality and all that stuff and it's all just it don't make no sense yeah I will say yeah especially with um the Marvel Universe because it they created so much and it's so complex but they all also kind of tie together I just feel like it was kind of I don't know it was it was a very strange piece of it all I think especially because that was such a big buildup that was like what almost a 10 years I think of a buildup but it's like for it to just be like have to do time travel after that it's almost like but I also I personally don't I've never read any of the comics or anything so I don't know how I this to their it's a lot worse than the comics honestly okay I'm like I always assume the comics are generally better written but they never no no no no even within the same universe like the same Marvel Universe like one person can write a Fantastic 4 comic where the time travel rules make sense for them but then someone five years later can write another Fantastic Four story that has completely different time travels rules and it doesn't doesn't matter at all I guess that's yeah it's a good point yeah the only people who kind of get around this is DC but the way they do it is that they do like the multiple Universe type of thing where every time something gets Rewritten then it goes to a different timeline and DC has a whole history of pretty much completely rewriting well DC has a thing they do over and over and over again which is they say here's the Canon timeline for now and then something happens and then someone has to go back in time to rewrite that timeline and like okay this is a new timeline but the way they frame it is that this is the normal timeline from now on but then later on inevitably every time you find out out that oh no actually the old timeline that we used to be in was a different timeline and now there are two different timelines but then they keep doing that over and over and over again so now there's like eight different timelines and it's all just dumb oh my gosh it's so ridiculous yeah it yeah never like one of the main one of the main advantages that the MCU has over the comics is that anyone can write a comic and just put it out there and like not anyone but anyone who works at Marvel or DC can yeah for the most part just write whatever they want so long as it conforms for the most part with the current continuity of things but like the films since they were all under the head of Kevin feige then he could sort of keep them in line more and make sure that people don't step on each other's toes a lot and that worked pretty well up until endgame but then after endgame like it just became a [ __ ] show after yeah oh my God no oh my God have did you see the Loki show at all I saw the first season for sure I don't think I've seen anything past that yeah it's just that just ruins it even more oh no it's like because in the first episode the TV like as a joke it opened a drawer and it has like 20 different Infinity Stones in it and it's like wait a minute minute what so we just spent 10 years going on this entire Arc of them trying to get Infinity Stones like these five specific ones or six I don't remember and then yeah that's five because he has five fingers right and and like the entire story of the entire MC of saga up until endgame is all about these Infinity Stones and getting them back and all that and then we figure out in the first episode of a Disney plus TV show oh we have like 50 of those I don't know what you're talking about like screw everything that happened over the last 10 years who cares about that and I immediately stopped the show after that I wasn't even walk I didn't even realize that but I will say I was never like so fully into the Marvel universe that I like I don't know cared or understood or noticed that in honestly so it's like but that is if I would have known I probably wouldn't have watched it either that's like so dumb it's like that's so much and like who signed off on that he was like yeah that's cool that's fine that's crazy yeah it's just ridiculous just nonsense yeah yeah I'm very curious like it'd be interesting to expand more into like reading more fantasy stuff or like you know like that actually it genuinely is my favorite genre is like fantasy um slash action like action adventure um of anything like I'm obsessed so it's like I but I need to actually start reading and stop watching as much and start reading more and I'd be curious to see if there's a book out there that like does time travel well in that sense or not it'd be cool to discover this entire time there's this film this indie film that came out like 20 years ago that did time travel really well and I've been trying this entire time to remember what it's called but I can't oh man yeah but that but that movie is just about it's a typee of time travel where things are set up and okay to basically it's really complicated to explain because when you actually try to properly go into time travel then if you actually set it up properly then it's actually really complicated but basically like they go forward through the film but then these little things happen throughout the film that are really subtle and you don't really think about them but then towards the end of the film film you realize that they actually went back in time to change that one little thing and then it's all yeah but it's pissing me off anyway we can go to your topic now if you have nothing else to say about time travel stuff yeah no not necessarily I think it is a very interesting one but it's also frustrating yeah cool yeah in that case um we can talk about mine so um my I guess topic of discussion is basically our thoughts on if we believe um like human bodies hold trauma um and this idea stems from I actually I totally forgot to look up his name because I think both of them um both of the people are like not I'm sure they like I don't even know so one of them is Gabor mate but I don't even know if I'm saying that name right that one of the people I saw a few of his videos and I think that's correct okay I'm like I don't know and then um the body keeps this score is by oh my gosh I don't I'm gonna like totally butcher it um if this is correct Bessel Vander C is that what you have okay well yeah but I don't know how to pronounce it though yeah and it's actually really funny did you end up watching anything with him in it yeah I watched a bit of them both could you understand him yeah but I'm I'm used to that since I watch foreign stuff anyway yeah I guess you know you listen you do listen to like a lot of podcasts and stuff um I don't I just listen to the office ladies okay I'll be honest for the last like five minutes I've been trying to look up what that movie is it's called primer that's what it is oh cool okay yeah know that's great I'm glad you did um yeah so with these two people so this the Bessel culk guy I don't know if that's why I'm saying it he um he's the one who wrote the body keeps the score I've never actually fully read it um I've seen quite a few interviews with him though like kind of just discussing what it's about basically um and ultimately it's like basically anytime like an emotional trauma happens to us our bodies hold on to that and then that can manifest in illnesses pain stuff like that um obviously I'm not speaking this as truth and this is why it's a discussion it's just an interesting topic that I thought I'd be very fascinated to get your view on it especially if you weren't aware of it as much before um and then with gabber mate I actually like the way that he explained stuff a little bit more I think it's more it's a little bit easier to understand um at least for me um but and with him I I haven't read any of his books either I know that he has a few books and I think one of them is specifically on this topic as well um and I that's the thing is I need to read I should read their books but I've again like watched a lot of interviews with him and it's kind of the same idea with him he even says that like birth is the first trauma like it like being born is the first trauma that we endure a life and with him he is I believe he was a pediatrician or at least like a family practice doctor for quite a while um and so it's interesting to have somebody like with a medical background kind of explain this and talk about it and believe it because I feel like again I don't really know the other guys much but I do feel like it's kind of can be perceived as like this is so woo woo and hippie and like Eastern medicine you know like I don't know which I personally love I think we need balance of eastern and western medicine but that's just my personal opinion um so yeah so ultimately that's basically the um context the topic whatever um and I I guess I'll just like share kind of my experience in why I believe this you know [Laughter] right and so yeah I think so for me it all started I hadn't heard about any of this for most of my life it's only been within probably the past like five or so years that I've even heard about this topic and book and everything um but when I was 18 so 10 years ago I'm aging myself which is crazy so when I was 18 I had gone through like a really bad breakup I guess I was 17 but no it just turned 18 anyway doesn't matter gone through a really bad breakup it was very difficult for me it the first time I really ever like had had my heart broken like fully truly um and I was kind of like just processing that breakup and I remember like being in my room one day and I like started just feeling like I kind of got like tunnel vision and like or like um I could only really like focus on one thing and then the rest was blurry kind of type of thing which I think is what tunnel pushing is I don't know um and then I kind of started feeling like I don't know if the numbness it kind of was like a numbness which is terrifying because I was like am I having a stroke or something like what is going on it was really scary and then I started my body just started like shaking like uncontrollably Tremors like whole body very pretty violently um and I was like so confused and freaked out and I distinctly remember going down to I think like Mom and I think Kristen was there but like I was mostly asking mom cuz I was like what is going on like do I need to go to the hospital like I'm so scared and she was like you know like cuz I was I was still functioning I could talk there wasn't any droopiness it was technically fine but we were just so confused and then um after that I had gone through like multiple tests and I'd had like a spinal tap I'd had an MRI I'd had like so much stuff after that because we were we had no idea what it was I had like sleep studies like all sorts of stuff um and none of it really had any answers we know we didn't know if it was a seizure um so there were like no answers even going through all that and probably a lot of money which is horrible but um and so it's something that kept happening kind of off and on um and like the older I got the more it happened and I just kind of dealt with it I realized that it's um when I feel really overwhelmed and stressed and then I and I bottle it up and then like kind of the release I guess itself is the like the Tremors and it will happen it kind of also equates to panic attacks for me because I've I've I realized then to that I have pretty severe anxiety either that I've developed it because of trauma and it's just gotten worse and worse um but yeah so I think it was first of all it was really scary but the more I like I've always has been very into kind of a more natural holistic lifestyle it's just what I gravitate towards it's what I feel best doing and living as um I was vegan for a while and I think that that's like what introduced me to that style like lifestyle so um and like just kind of being more and more involved in like the natural style you know getting into that I just heard more and I realized that it was just like my body actually releasing the energy that has been built up and um I realize that it because of like such a severe heartbreak I genuinely didn't know how to handle it and because of how intensely I feel emotion you would know probably better than a lot of people being raised with me um I feel things very very intensely it's I can't help it I wish I didn't honestly half the time because it's horrible half the time but m I think that because I couldn't handle or figure out how to like release it properly or have wasn't in therapy at the time or just different things like that that's just how my body did it and got rid of it and figured it out on its own um and I still have it and I actually purposely allow it to happen because now I know that it's not a scary thing it's actually quite healthy and good for me to release that and I do it you know kind of in a safe environment and make sure that it's like uncomfortable and it's not like you know cuz now I can almost like not make myself do it but it's like if I'm if I'm relaxed enough and kind of in the head space of purposely trying to let something go then it will happen I guess um and so for me I like as strange as it sounds because there have been other things that have happened too but I think for me personally that's where I was like this makes sense to me I really do believe that our bodies hold trauma in some way and emotional trauma I think that our bodies hold on to it and um I still believe it to this day and I think um something else that I would want to bring up later after I hear opinion is also how much working out and being active why I think it has a really big role to play in letting go of that energy as well and releasing kind of that negative energy but that was very long-winded it just I wanted to give my um experience with it because it is pretty personal to me and I do fully believe in it but I'm very curious to hear you know kind of your thoughts on it and if you even believe that it's a thing or not yeah well I can only say so much because you brought me this topic yesterday and I never heard of it before so I sorry do bunch of research in like four hours but yeah I guess I'll mostly pull off of things I know about like evolutionary biology and things like that so the two two things that come well two books that come to mind right now are the hunter gathers Guide to the 21st century by Heather H and Brett Weinstein and also a book I'm reading right now called Lost connections by Johan Hari which I talked about last time and I guess I'll start with the Lost connections so there was a so lost connections is all about how it's all about like non-medication Solutions and causes to depression basically for the most part oh that's cool and one of the chapters is about social standing and through that actually most of that was about how this person researched Apes in their natural environments and they found that the people at the lowest of the totem pole would like actively hunch their shoulders and make themselves seem smaller and defeated so that no one would attack them and even when they put them and when they took those defeated apes and put them into a more healthy the environment then they still were acting like that for MH a bit but then actually after a while they re acclimated and they were able to hold themselves in a better position so I think there yeah it's just difficult to know it might actually be that we have some physical harm inflicted on us and then that sort of gets imprinted in our mind and then where whenever we feel like we're in a similar situation then our bodies react the same they were that first time we were in that situation and there's another chapter on women who went through rape situations and it seemed like that was what happened there yeah and another thing about the ape studies is that they found out there was a huge difference in Behavior between Apes who were in the wild and apes who were in captivity like zoos or whatnot and that the Apes who were in zoos pretty much all of them were like that they wanted to make themselves feel smaller for the most part and it was very interesting that makes me sad they very yeah and it's not all of them it's yeah like some of them pretty much there was in the wild there was like a hierarchy to things but in the confined there was one person at the top and then everyone else was at the bottom and that was there was nothing in between and what was I going with that oh yeah so there's that and then the entire book of Hunter gathers guy to the 21st century is how like we created a world that's so anti what our brain was built for that like obviously our brains are just going to not work within the current environment and not sure well I guess I I read that book a long time ago I should probably reread it but basically the gist of it was that I don't know how to explain it's like the way that we take in our all of our five different senses if those are sort of off-kilter then we'll think that we're in a dangerous environment and then so yeah so if you're living in a city this thing that you're not in a natural environment just with your eyes by itself that would pretty much make your brain think that you're in a dangerous environment and then that would make you think that you need to be more on edge than you usually would be and well okay this leads to another thing which is this is kind of related but kind of not so our brains are really weird in that they're they're like half CU like we still don't understand how they work but we do know that there is like a conscious aspect to it but then also a biological aspect to it so there's this thing called neuroplasticity which is basically the more your brain does something the better it gets at it and then the bigger that actual part of your brain gets physically and the better the more you are depressed or downtrodden I guess the more your um amydala grows which is the fear response part of your brain and so the bigger that gets then the more sensitive you are to fear-based situations and so you're more quickly to see situations as threatening I guess and then also you're more quick to react to situations that you see as threatening I think there was a little I can't remember the exact numbers but I think it was something like people who think they're in a safe environment their response time is 300 milliseconds but then people who think they're in a dangerous environment their response time is half a b or something like that but then that also means that you're on edge all the time and so yeah it's just a big old mess sounds like me on a daily basis honestly yeah so it's just a a lot of weirdness but anyway yeah so I definitely think it's true but it's also I mean this is the really I think I brought this up before but there's this huge gap between Western and Eastern medicine where Western medicine tries to comp compartmentalize things and Eastern medicine tries to think take things complete and holistically and I think that's one of the biggest weaknesses of the western medical environment is that we try to think of our brain as separate from our body as separate from society as separate from our psychology and things like that yeah you need to take them as a whole and like so it's weird because there are two different phenomenon the first one is that if you are depressed then actually changing your pH physiology like standing up straighter and smiling and just like doing wide gestures and things like that do make you happier and more and less depressed basically but then also if you I forgot the other thing I was gonna say it uh oh yeah then also if you are um in a physically difficult position and you I guess okay yeah here if if you're having physical problems but then you actually start start helping other people and more integrating into a society then you a lot of times those physical issues actually go away which is also interesting and oh I wrote a few note but the next note I have is that most people so everyone this was like a huge Revelation in genetics a while ago I don't remember when it was but everyone has genes for specific things within their body but then whether or not they get activated depends on your environment and what you interact with so everyone has genes in their body that corresponds to like negative emotionality but then the more your environment Stokes that negative emotionality then your body actually produces more of those genes in your body and they turn them on more and that's what we that's where we get like intergenerational trauma type of thing is that if your Mo if a mother is put into a difficult position where those genes are activated then it actually directly affects the child and if that child is a female then they already have the eggs within their body so it could be that there's three generations of people who are affected because of that and it's very messed up and yeah but then also the more of these genes that you have the more sensitive you are generally so even if you well yeah so you can train if you're put into a good uh social bioc psychosocial environment after those genes are activated in the first place then you can train your body to turn them off I think after a while and then and I I don't think it matters how many you have had before if you're put back into a bad environment then I think everyone reacts the same I I don't think that people who okay I guess here's how expl so if you have two people one who doesn't have those activated and one who does if you put the one who does in a good environment and they slowly turn off then if you put them back into a bad environment then they actually won't be more sensitive to that than the person who was never in that position to begin with so that's a good thing yeah that's cool yeah so that's very good news for people who have been through rough situations is that if you actually put if you actually get into a situation where you're able to heal from that then if you get back to it then you're not more susceptible to getting reined with that thing but you are you're also not more resistant to it I don't think so yeah you're sort of just back at zero which is better than I mean and that's really good because people used to think that people who were in bad situations once they healed from it were more likely to get back into those bad situations but it seems like that's not the case so yeah that's one of the good news things yeah and yeah do have anything off that I have another note but it's kind of unrelated to what I just said so oh I just think it's interesting I really I like this perspective of it because it's like obviously this is a topic that like I don't think it can really be proven regardless you know I feel like there's a lot of belief in it and um but it is still interesting to have a more biologic iCal kind of interpretation of it which I I agree obviously to very large extent and I believe in that part of it but I also like for me I I look at things in a very like I marry um my natural world with spirituality just because I feel like there's a spiritual realm or world that we interact with that's just my personal belief so it is interesting too to be like have more of like the non-spiritual side of it and be like could it still be a possibility and if so even if it's not necessarily the fact that her body keeps score that is it genuinely just like kind of M like small versions of evolution I don't know I couldn't think of that word um because it's just it's kind of that like it when it really does boil down to it it is kind of the whole like survival that's really all it is it's just a of survival emotionally which I feel like is just more common in our modern world because of how we very we have very few physical threats we definitely have some especially if you drive but like even then it's still so minimal compared to you know what our ancestors were used to so it is I just really like like having this perspective and um I really like it made me like happy to hear that there was like a thing where it's like if I personally heal like I almost took a lot of that personally in a good way it's like if I if I am in a healthier environment which I most definitely am then I can heal and like I don't have to live my whole life like this like it's great so I thought that was cool yeah so along with that another one of my notes was just Placebo and how like what it's so insane that like one of the most powerful things that exist in the world is not like no matter how many drugs you correctly put into somebody it doesn't beat the placebo effect ever yeah like just statistically speaking it just doesn't ever it's kind of insane so cool and you can just L literally just inject water into somebody but if you tell them that it's one of the most Mir miraculous drug that's ever been created then they're going to heal from it no matter what and it's just it's just weird I just don't yeah I think it it shows like how powerful our brains are like that's that's all it is it's like if we really and like as cheesy as it sounds it's true if we genuinely believe in something I mean you think you even just think about like religion and like religious people like it's just if you truly believe in something that is your that's it you're going to believe it you know yeah and it's just I mean it's kind of a good thing and it's kind kind of a bad thing because I think because that just that means that there aren't really any especially with depression and those sorts of things is that there's not really an easy way to beat depression because one of the biggest problems with depression is that it's it's like self-defeating in a way because it sort of like the difference between being sad and being depressed is that depress depression sort of keeps you down I guess it like keeps doing things it keeps convincing you that there's no way to get out of it I guess and that's yeah and then pretty much the Lost connections book that I'm reading right now like one of the main things that he goes into is that he has been taking anti-depression drugs since he was a teenager and he's like 30 something now or something and well he was 30 something by the time he wrote the book and he just became clear that he just kept having to take he have to keep increasing his doses to get to the same level that he was at when he started taking them and it just kept getting higher and higher and higher and just kept resetting after a while and it would be really nice if we could just cure depression with drugs but you can't and yeah it just it's just annoying because again sto believing that you can get out of depression is the thing that cures depression but also it's the thing that depression is most able to guard against so it's just it's just way harder because of that yeah and I'll also point out this is my last point I have is that when I okay well I've been regularly exercising since I was about 14ish or 13 somewhere around there and at the time I couldn't really explain it but I could just tell that it made me feel better when I did that and that then MH I would realize that when I was starting to go into a bad Direction then the first thing that I would go would be my exercise which is the exact thing that I would need to sustain in order to not fall into that and so I realized like pretty recently even just a year ago when I was let go for one of my jobs I went okay the one thing that you have to keep no matter what is your exercise because for some reason that's just if you stop doing that then that's it when you just start tanking downhill and so I got into this and then also I'm not sure if this healthy or not but one thing that I realized is that once you start to go downhill then and instead of trying to like bring yourself uphill faster it actually is easier and faster to just take a day and just completely throw yourself downhill and then just go slowly build her way back up mhm I don't know it just seems easier that way so like when I so like even uh like last week I got a rejection from a job interview that I did and I went okay what I have to do is buy two really unhealthy things from the store have to just down them really fast and then like just watch TV for the rest of the day and then next day I'll be fine and that's exactly what happened because yeah in the past I tried to fight it and I kept trying to fight it over and over and over again and I just it was still just a very slow downhill until I hit that same bottom point and it just took longer and it was more annoying because I kept trying to fight against it and so that took all my energy yeah so that's interesting too but I guess that's not especially related to body stuff well no I I personally think it is it's the thing like I think it's very I think that's actually really cool that you share that because I think well first of all I think we were raised to be very like workaholic like very independent very intense about that kind of stuff yeah I mean our our mom's motto was you have if you have a problem either do something about it or shut up or shut up yeah exactly which I genuinely love it's like especially as an adult it's like no she's right she's so right it's so funny um but yeah I and I do I very much actually appreciate that Mom so thank you but yeah I uh but I think that that is something that I've had to learn as well and it's it's interesting that we kind of have those similar mindsets of like I like I guess the way that I see it too and like in my life personally it's like my boyfriend constantly is like you need to learn to rest like why are your life would be so much easier you would feel so much better you'd be able to get more done if you would like I know like I I don't know how I genuinely don't it's like if I if I have a day off I'm cleaning half the day I'm going running in parents have to you know I'm like it's insane instead of just resting um and so I actually kind of like that and of course like you said we are not medical professionals don't do something unless you know it's going to be safe for you but I really like the permission to just feel it and be upset like like it is so important to let yourself feel that and I genuinely also almost appreciate having that like time limit on it you know it's like I'm going to feel that today I'm going to be pissed I'm going to you know do whatever I need to do I am going to go eat some dessert or whatever you know like whatever it is and then because I allowed myself to feel that when it was supposed to be felt then I could you know carry on the next day um and so I think that that's like just as important as working out and taking care of yourself it is I think the point is to have that time limit on it um but I think there's a lot of relatability and I I would say especially and I I wouldn't know because I'm not a male person but um I also feel like that's also just an important message for men too just be like be be upset like actually feel that and whatever it is you need to do as long as it's not hurting anybody like do it like if that is just taking the rest of the day to just be pissed or mad or sad or whatever I just unfortunately feel like there's still so much of an idea that men can't show their emotions or if there is more of that idea I feel like there's not a lot of guidance in that right now which is confusing that it's like oh man you need to start showing your emotions but it's like well we don't there's nobody are you sure you want me to do that because most of the time I'm just angry so I mean maybe that's it too is there's I mean that is a big part of it is um expressing that in a healthy way which I feel like exercise is a big part which is the other part I was going to get to too is um I think so the way that I personally view the world this is just my this is Cassie's brain for a few seconds whether people agree with me I don't really care it's just how I've like developed as I've lived my life I personally believe that like as hippie as it sounds but I also think there's a lot of scientific proof or or or um con um what is it not proof backing backing up I don't know whatever that word is I know that there's a word but I don't know what you're thinking of yeah but that I just kind of feel like our entire lives our energy and I personally like emotion alone gives off energy and I think that um and I kind of think that like the best thing I go to is like plant studies like people who grow plants and sing to him or like certain music is great like I've heard Metal's good for him so like maybe plans are angry like I don't know you know but at least there's like emotion involved in that and um like certain ener certain things that you put out onto them it helps them grow or not and I think that that's like so I feel like everything that we exist with each other plants everything animals even just like man-made stuff like cities like everything in my opinion is that Del at in the sense of if I'm mad at someone or something it's going to affect even if it's not them like let's say they're far away it's still going to affect my atmosphere it's going to affect because I'm putting off that you know negative or not negative I don't think anger is negative but it's just going to put off that energy and so I think um I think in that that's also like where exercise and like yoga and even just breath work actually has really fascinated me because and and in relation to you know the whole body keeps the score thing is once you exercise you're obviously releasing a lot of energy you really are like that is so much energy you're releasing and I think that that's such a I just wonder I guess and probably answers I'll never have and I'm fine with that I'm curious to know if that's also why it's so um helpful for depression and anxiety and just kind of those mental health issues is yes obviously there's dopamine and adrenal like all those things that come up that are really good and healthy for us um but even despite that I wonder if just releasing energy in such a positive way just by exercising even if it's just a walk or yoga or something I think that it it almost like regulates us I think as humans if that's a good way to put it it just keeps us steady it keeps us not spiraling you know MH because we're kind of cycling through that negative energy and letting that be released just by exercising and so I think that I like I was I was never the type to be stoked about exercising I always hated gym class oh my gosh could never run the mile because of asthma I did too yeah but like now I have such a healthier view of that and I know you do too because like you found what makes sense for you like it's actually being in the gym and lifting or or whatever you know um and unfortunately gym class does not care about what works for an individual but yeah I just think that that like aspect of it too is kind of interesting and again all just my opinion it's just the curious things that I think about pretty much daily so so I'm curious if you have thoughts on that too yeah well on the gym thing like I hated gym class too but that's because they were doing things I didn't want to do like I liked exercising but I didn't like exercising in the way that they wanted me to and so yeah that was it but yeah so when you say emotions sort of put you like give off a certain energy around to the world around you I think uh I don't think I'm talking out of my ass here but I pretty sure I heard at some point that emotions literally change the pheromones that you give off and people can respond to those and like it's weird because the whole pheromone thing is very both giving and the receiving of it is very subconscious and like your body doesn't respond to it at all in any way whatsoever but once I found out this was a real thing then it's just one of those things where you just don't know under what situation like are you responding to a person's body language are responding to like their tone of voice are you responding to their pheromones are responding to something else and it's just it's just very annoying but yeah and then one of the most difficult things a person has to learn in their life and this is true for everybody because nobody has like a perfect internal clock I'd say is that you have to understand when to listen to your Natural Instincts and when not to and that's probably one of the most difficult things that people each individual has to learn in their lives because yeah like for 50 years you could think that something is that the way you think about and feel about something is correct but then just get that realize you've been getting that wrong for 50 years and then you just go oh well I guess I have to fix that then or maybe not because the other problem with neuroplasticity is that it becomes it's really high for young people but it it follows falls off a cliff after like 25 30ish yeah and then and that's why you have so many old people who are setting the because their brains literally have a harder time changing themselves and that's a feature not a bug because that means that they can keep the wisdom in place to share with the younger people and yeah but then along with all this stuff there was this I'm going to cite a Bible verse of all things but there's this one verse there are a lot of verses in the Bible that confuse the heck out of me but then I listen to D Peterson a lot and then when he explains well I don't know if his explanations are 100% correct but the way he explains them I'm like oh okay that makes sense but there's this one that always confused me and this is it it's Matthew 25:29 and also do the most easily readable version of it for to everyone who has more will be given and he will have abundance but from the one who does not have even what he has will be taken away from him and that always confused the heck out of me and I'm like what do you mean that's like terrible yeah that's rude but it's it actually almost explains the entire Human Experience because it means that the people who are in a difficult position they sort of are more negatively impacted by that so they give off more negative energy and then more negative things happen to them and that and then that just sends them downhill faster like it's an exponential downhill curve I guess but the inverse of that is that for people who are positive then their positive goes out to other people who gives them more positivity back and that just compounds on each other the same way and that goes the other way so so it's it's very much like the curse and the blessing of the human person is that if you accept the negative if if you accept the negative parts of yourself and then just keep feeding them then you're just going to keep going downhill but if you change to the positive side yourself then you can go uphill and then and then there's also a good and bad side to that which is that if you're in a down place but then you just change your state of mind then you can go uphill really fast then also if you're in an up place and then you change the down to change your internal state to downhill then it goes downhill really fast yeah so it's just the yeah it's like one of the central issues of the human race I think is just that it's easy to fall from grace but it's also easy to rise up if you if you just don't give into the bad aspects of yourself I guess and that's sort of what that's sort of what I guess a lot of Heroes embody throughout well all the old Heroes and new Heroes all kind of suck but old Heroes they used to embody this idea of like no matter what comes at me I'm still going to be a positive person and still care about it like and this is the one thing the anime of all things is getting right but like the Western media is getting completely cuz the Western media is like oh I'm just a complete piece of [ __ ] and selfish and then things just keep working out for me even though they shouldn't but anime is like my hero Academia deu his entire thing is like there he has this ruthless childhood bully who like and since I have superpowers he like beats the [ __ ] out of him and he almost kills him multiple times but was like listen I know that he he de seees some potential in the Bly character he's like if you could just turn around and become a good person then you would be like one of the greatest was in the world and he just keeps holding on to that and it's just like it's like we just completely lost that in the western world and it's so annoying yeah it's actually really funny you say that because the first thing I thought of about like just this idea of like positive mindset is an anime character I was like yeah and she um no but I think that there are so many I think he represents it very well but there's a specific in spoilers but also it's been out since the 90s is um but I guess sorry I guess you haven't seen it but basically nami's backstory the the lady that took her in and raised her told her you know our strength is measured by how much we can smile through hardship basically I I know it's it's very much misquoting but that's the gist of it um and I remember thinking that because I've like gone back and forth in my life especially as a female like I just feel like there's the kind of that like if you're not smiling you're a b word like you know like it's just there's a lot more pressure I think on women to be more positive just CU they're like everyone wants to see you smile like it's annoying AF because sometimes I just don't want to smile or I'm thinking um but I also have been thinking because I'm like I used to be a very positive person honestly to a fault and I think that life just kicked my butt honestly and was like ha like jokes on you but I also like Miss I was like why am I so unhappy now I'm like I feel like a completely different person and like yeah I've been through horrible things sure but plenty of people have who've gotten through it so it's like what why am I so just anxious now and all this stuff and I'm like I genuinely think that there was some honest truth to like being a positive person and having that pressure put on me you know and I because I think I benefited it I benefited from it more than anybody um um and of course there's a balance I the point I think now in my life that I'm realizing is you can be a positive person and still set boundaries and like say your truth you know um and so yeah I think that that's like very it's almost like nice to have a confirmation and have this discussion to be like it really is about mindset and even just talking about the placebo effect I feel like I like forget that all the time that it's like our minds are so strong and it is true that it's I'm dwelling so much on the fact that I was married to a narcissistic mental emotional abusive person and even before that I had some pretty serious issues that have happened to me or like things that have happened to me so it's like because I dwell on that so much more now I think that's wise I'm just kind of sitting in my own pool of negativity and there's like something really I think it there's something really like hope F and like exciting about just The Human Experience is the fact that it can go uphill and if I remember that now the next time I go downhill again I'll just be like well I changed my mindset then I can do it again you know and I think that that's very encouraging and for me like one of the worst mental places I've been in my life is when it was like right after I got my Master's Degree and I was going to get get a job for the life of me and I just went I don't know well this is really bad okay so I guess I don't know how to explain it but it's sort of like I'm just the sort of person who has like never really had anything really bad happen to me and I just was constantly aware of people who had worse lives than me but and so I sort of like wouldn't allow myself to feel bad about anything because I'm like you you don't meet the necessary qualifications of feeling bad for things because like you're just not getting a job after you got your master's degree like there are people who have been Mur who have like had their families murdered in front of them and things like that so you're like yeah it's just like you're not allowed to feel bad about things I guess and it's only in the last year or so where I'm like okay that's stupid because like I can't compare my life to other people's lives because like got not getting a job after I got master's degree is actually a big deal to me because it's the worst thing that happened to me in my life so far exactly and just because I haven't gone through something bad as bad as other people have gone through that is something bad that happened to me from my perspective and I need to deal with that better and stop comparing myself to other people's negative aspects I guess experiences that's the word and I think I swear I had something else if I forgot what it was Sor I know I talk yeah no I actually think that's also interesting because that was me for a while too before you know more crap happened to me you know and I think like I will say at least up until then like I was unfortunately like always overly sexualized I feel like just as like a teenage girl just because that's unfortunately our society and there were definitely instances of that that I'm like that's not cool so it's like there was that slight trauma but even then up until I was like 18 I was still like very privileged and had a very good life so it's like it's only when like like I think my most serious trauma well I actually did have some before then but it was something I could get past back then and then like once I turned 18 just everything went downhill but yeah yeah it is interesting that comparison you know even if it is in that light of like well I do have it better but it is important to like acknowledge the things that are actually difficult for us yeah and I do think that like pretty much everybody in their 20s has experience that it's like the thing the thing I brought up two or three weeks ago I don't remember of how everyone in their 20s things that they don't have their [ __ ] together because they don't and then it's when they hit around 30ish that they actually start to feel like an adult and feel integrated into society and things like that and so like when you're in your 20s you're think oh man I really wish I really missed the times I had before 18 but that's because I we already brought this up like on that episode but like when you once you hit 18 it's sort of like you just are thrown off a cliff and then your 20s it's just sort of building your way back up to the top of where or even back to just where you were thrown off from in the first place and then 30s is when you actually get to the point you were at when you were throwing off at 18 but now you're doing it independently on your own or M or it's more like you built your own life instead of your parents life being enforced on you I guess yeah and then you can go up or down from there from depending on how you live your life for plan on yeah no I I really like that and I think I've like gathered so much from this discussion like I I love it the times that that happens where it's like oh that's going to like change the way I view my own life and it's just great yeah it's pretty good do you have anything else on this topic no I think that was great okay uh oh no I was trying to stall time to look for the outro but I couldn't find it fast enough so oh no I'm sorry no I'm just have this spot of me I mean I found it at this point but now I had to explain exp it okay thanks for listening to the snake and batter show we'll see you next week with another two topic oh no I I mess it up we'll be back next week with another two topics so we'll see you then bye bye [Music]