Tim Walz and the George Floyd Protests ft. Eamon Whalen

[Music] [Music] [Music] good evening everyone I'm your host Jason Miles and welcome to another episode of this is Revolution podcast sadly once again uh I am stuck without internet and attempting to do this show using my phone as a spot here in Mexico where I was informed today after I did go to my internet service provider that uh there were multiple thieves of the fiber optic cable on different sides of town that coupled with a fire is causing for an internet outage in my area I I was told it was supposed to be back up today is not so hopefully we can get through this show and the Champagne Room hiccup free but by my side to help me out if we do have any issues is the trusty voice of reason M2 hello hello how are you today I don't know anticlimactic like that that intro without the Applause right it is weird I was waiting for it I hate it yeah I hate it I hate it I like [Laughter] I'm I'm dressing for the weather okay you do look like an extra from the Michael Jackson Bad video you look ready to dance station look very nice who s but whose side do I look like I'm on do I look like I'm on Wesley snip side or Michael Jackson's side oh good question I'm not with Michael I assumed Michael in the first place because of the cir chief maybe the kief is a little buried but it is there the is just for the cief is literally just for the lapel mic that's all it's for right why did you say it like that so mean right I'm agreeing sure sure it is are you ready to talk Minneapolis politics and possibly the future vice president yes I'm calling dibs on the first question did you add a question to the list of questions nope I made it up with my brain smarts but to the list of questions that I already had no I didn't add it oh you didn't add it because you were just going to be that difficult uh yeah yeah pretty much as long as people can see this level of difficulty that we deal with here I try to have order and she's just like NOP chaos being all over it just like a toddler uh as the dust settles from the latest presidential debate one narrative has remained clear the Republican party is steadfast in its strategy of smearing kamla Harris and her running mate Tim walz as far-left radicals recently JD Vance claimed that under wal's leadership as governor of Minnesota he defunded the police and allowed riers to wreak havoc in the streets yet as Aman whan points out in his article for Mother Jones Tim wals was no protest leader wherever you are watching or listening to the show there's a links in the description to the article I believe two SS already put in the chat this portrayal of Waltz is far from accurate rather than being a progressive icon Waltz governed in a manner more aligned with the establishment Politics as whan explains in his article Waltz responded to the unrest in the wake of the George Floyd's murder not by Leading a movement of racial justice but by calling in the National Guard to suppress the protest speaking in the fure pain language that we come to see so often from the Democratic party in these instances in fact then president Donald Trump prais waltz's firm response to the protest undermining the claim that he represents any radical break from the Democratic party's Centrist trajectory despite This Waltz has been touted as a progressive alternative to the status quo largely due to the work of Minnesota's left leading legislative body which has overshadowed his more moderate approach so is Waltz truly a progressive leader or has he simply benefited from the political climate of a progressive State we'll dive into the protests that Define 2020 waltz's role in managing the response and how he has ascended to the National stage as Harris's vice presidential pick please welcome our guest coming all the way live from my old stomping grounds please welcome Aman [Music] whing thank you sorry sorry it's good to be back yeah go ahead go ahead no no you go you go okay no it's definitely good to see you back on the show you look meticulously groomed today not just for a leftist he look you know what he looks like he look got be the he looks like he's got a you know Aman looks like he's got a really good hip-hop vinyl collection of like records you haven't heard tucon from 91 to 97 that's right like I I believe I believe in my soul those books are just like a Batman facade and if you pull one of the books down you go down the the fireman's thing pole and then that's when all the vinyl is there and uh and then all the 90s rappers are there to uh I last time danger last time I was on the show we were talking rap so we were we were I I wanted to [ __ ] on most deaf in the champagne room so if you want to uh oh feel he's aged most gracefully perhaps out of any of that generation but that's another conversation sure but I I believe I have a clip that really shows you who he really is okay all right the real mosta will he please stand up and he stood up he stood up and he saluted in the most yeah we'll leave it alone oh dear what if most de is watching the show right now yes this is the show you guys recommended for [Music] me sorry y seen sorry yeah sorry yene never liked that guy well I wanted to ask you right right out the gate um is Tim Waltz your dad that's actually really that's funny that you say that because my dad's name is Tim oh and his name starts last starts with w that's right W uh uh and you know like the same way that a lot of people are are are seeing their uh maybe like ideal type of a Midwestern dad like there are yeah they're are part you know a little bit reminds me I guess like a you know uh white guy that grew up in the midwest you know my dad is is good with uh tools and and fixing things and such um but no he is not my dad he's not your dad well I know that I'm a New Yorker and uh I know that during the pandemic Andrew cromo came to like National prominence and it was just so weird the response to him people were calling themselves homosexuals and I'm like yes that guy that guy yeah so like how do you feel seeing Tim Waltz being celebrated in this way he's everyone's dad including yours yeah it was a it's it was a it was a a funny news cycle um where I could UND it it came off pretty goofy to people who I think have paid attention to his trajectory but I could also understand why people were um that narrative was built but I felt like it was very it was a very internet based narrative that picked up over a couple weeks but it was a very odd thing where the vep stakes were happening he became the left-wing pick like he was the left pick and then big sort of like accounts people Formerly Known or formerly affiliated with Bernie or something were saying we want walls as opposed to Josh airo more sort of like corporate and so then it became and then people were then saying walls just had this historic legislative session in Minneapolis or sorry in Minnesota in the state house where they passed all of these bills that some of which are like Bernie you could say Bernie Sanders light or even Bernie type bills Universal School launch that's kind of the big one and then it became but like I wouldn't have said described walls as a progressive during his primary he was the Centrist candidate in 2018 he had a progressive Challenger named Aaron Murphy who's the Senate majority leader in the Minnesota house and he picked his lieutenant governor Peg Peggy Flanigan who is uh an indigenous woman might become the first indigenous Governor as a sort of um uh throwing a bone to the left you know and then because and then when he got picked it became this thing like Jonathan Chate in New York mag writing that like Harris needs to tack to the center because she picked this leftist where it seemed like he was just getting that from his timeline like I didn't like he's like the like it just became such a uh insular kind of like internet media uh what kind of media influencers are for him that it just was like if you've paid attention how he's governed he has I would say exceeded the expectations and done a sort of rare thing amongst politicians where he's maybe moved left as his career has progressed partly because he's now he was a congressman for southern Minnesota in a red district and he never had to govern the Twin Cities which is a very blue and even left Progressive uh place like we've you know Keith Ellison and Ilan Omar like the Minneapolis Congress people like that's there have always been the left Democratic party so I think that that created the perception and it's not that it's totally untrue but it's just like a it's it is a caricature um it's less of a character cure than like JD Vance saying that he's like an antifa wielding or sorry an antifa Molotov cocktail wielding militant or people saying that he's like a Chairman Mao because he has been to China a lot um but it still was like it was inaccurate if you're an actual like someone paying attention to politics in Minnesota over Tim Wall's at least gubernatorial tenure um you said in your article you mentioned how waltz's handling of the 2020 protest in Minnesota contradicted his portrayal as a left leaning reformer you write wal's Administration was quick to crack down on the demonstrations deploying the National Guard and imposing curfews the image of a progressive protest leader quickly dissolved as his actions aligned more with the forces of order how do you see this uh affecting his appeal to the left now that he's on the National Ticket with kamla or do you think that most people are just going to ignore that moment anyway I think people mostly ignore it I don't know if you all feel this way but I I tend to think that the a lot of what happened in 2020 especially in that first week after George Floyd was murdered where the most unrest and property damage and buildings on fire and and quote unquote rioting was happening like that has largely been forgotten with the exception of the right and then sort of uh more kind of anarchist insurrectionary leaning leftists otherwise most people just try to push that under the rug like it it didn't happen which I think is pretty interesting and kind of uh it it neglects like a really fascinating phenomenon where a ton of like unaffiliated apolitical normies were really really mad and were ready to like burn [ __ ] down which I think is a really interesting thing to to think about at in that time but um yeah he he uh I I don't necessarily think like I think he he basically triangulated like as I was saying before whereas he knew he needs to retain Suburban support but he also can't look like he's cracking down too hard but he kind of ended up doing that but I would say to think of him the best way to think of him is that he's a Savvy politician who triangulates and uh unlike a lot of other triangulator and this is maybe partly due to the climate that he was in he's not he's not super outwardly antagonistic towards the Electoral left I should say like he has like the minority whip in the Minnesota state house if I'm remembering this correctly is a DSA member he's got multiple out socialists in his caucus um like state senator Omar fate for example who is um behind some of the more kind of ambitious legislation so yeah I I don't I don't really think it will affect it too much but that's definitely it soured uh it soured some people in Minneapolis towards walls but at the same time I think people are kind of holding to truths in that if they if they care about the El the presidential election that yes he probably was the most Progressive pick but also there's been he's done a lot of things that uh progressives in Minnesota have not liked I mean do you think he's more Progressive than someone like Gavin Newsome I think so yeah I mean I think I I don't know as much about the California legislature but like what what the context that's that informs sort of this like historic session that happened is that for many years Minnesota had the only split house in the country the only state house that the the Republicans controlled the Senate Democrats controlled the house so there was a gridlock I mean that also like walls did they did past things something during his uh first term like he was working with the Senate Majority Leader of the Republicans but they got all of this uh in 2020 or 2022 they got a uh majority but a one vote majority largely due to like the the dobs effect like them gaining seats in the suburbs due to roow being overturned so they had a one-seat majority with a fairly ideologically diverse Democratic caucus and they passed a ton of things so uh in that sense I don't think that a Gavin Nome or like a a you know someone in New York or someone in a a deep blue state that does not have that has never experienced that gridlock there's a sense of like urgency and like this is our only chance and for that I think he does deserve credit even if he maybe didn't run on a lot of that program and just signed some bills detailed some other key bills that we can talk about but he uh you know he he controlled and was at the head of a very very ambitious legislative session that I don't think I think in other states maybe the governor is is concerned with sort of defeating the left whereas they couldn't afford Minnesota Democrats couldn't afford to do that if they wanted to pass anything um what was the feeling on the ground when all this was going on I don't remember as much being said about Tim Waltz as I remember the city council kind of being at the Forefront of saying things like we're going to abolish the police early on and then the mayor of course was was the ire for a lot of people um as far as Tim Walls what was the feeling on the ground were people like let's get rid of the governor as well or is that where his playing po politics and as you say triangulation comes into play I mean I I would say the the IR and the the um if if a politician was the target of people or people were really mad it would be it would be Jacob fry partly because yeah the the the response and a lot of the violence towards protesters and the over overthe toop um uh response was from the MPD it wasn't from the National Guard things were like large I mean not all the way but like kind of calmed down by the time the National Guard got there and then it was just sort of them occupying but then before that it was it was a MPD plus a Consortium of other uh police forces that had come in town whether that was like state troopers or um something to that effect where uh but at a certain point it became hard to tell which was which but the thing and the thing that walls has been attacked for is that he basically didn't step in to sort of rest control of the situation of the response from Jacob fry and the chief of police in Minneapolis who uh had no like handle on the situation at all and were very uh um uh I guess just like lacked lacked any kind of like solid leadership and seemed like they had no control over the police department and so then walls basically the the back and forth goes and this debate I think is like it's been hashed out a lot in uh recent media reports I didn't go to into it too much but basically fry requests the National Guard and he says that walls hesitates because he wasn't quite sure whether it you know was a good idea to bring them in yet walls denies that and he says that you guys weren't following the proper protocol to call in the National Guard who really knows it just feels like it's two politicians who want to distance themselves from an unpopular issue that both of them I think uh didn't see coming but were warned was going to happen like both walls was warned by fando castile's mom um that I just learned in this really really good watch report that that was interesting yes very interesting in that dude that that can I just say something for a second please please that blew my mind that blew my mind because for me the phando Castile situation was one of those that for me hit close to home because I'm am a regular cat that doesn't have a lot of money I did pay for my tags but for some reason I don't have them [Laughter] yet I don't like driving in certain parts of the of the bay I'm older now and I think I don't get pulled over like I used to before the gray really started coming through on the beard but um there's a different approach long enforcement has with someone they know that has literally no power um you're G to get [ __ ] up if they if they want to [ __ ] you up and fando Castile is one of those cats that really you know paid the price on a very innocuous traffic stop and to even go so far as to know exactly the protocol and how you talk to law enforcement during getting pulled over and going to reach for your permit and and the Cat opening fire with a child in the car it was uh I had never seen anything so blatant of you really shouldn't be a cop if you're this afraid of everybody around you um and I didn't see the outrage from America and there's there's a whole bunch of reasons George Floyd is George Floyd and 2020 Is 2020 and 2018 was not 2020 but for phando castiel's Mom to kind of plant that seed and say there's something happening right now and you really need to to get a hold on this and this was even before her son was was killed this was after her son was killed before it was after okay sorry before walls was governor when walls so walls was not Governor when flando Castile was killed which did actually after like big protests were outside the Minnesota Governor's Mansion with it was the previous Democratic governor and definitely um both as I say in my my piece like years starting in 2015 with the police killing of a black man named Jamar Clark in North Minneapolis that led to a a police precinct occupation that sort of that kind of was setting the stage for the 2020 Precinct uh Siege but like from Jamar Clark to flando Castile and several others it had definitely upended city and state politics and made that like protest had made that a big issue and I think walls in preparing to be governor was trying to uh you know educate himself on that issue and and and I you know he there's a good this Washington Post article it's by the Robert Samuel is the reporter who wrote the the biography of George Floyd and is he's very very well sourced he talks about a sort of group of black women who were uh family members of victims of police violence and had Wallace had sort of built a relationship with them and yeah the most I thought the most Valerie Castile phando mom had warned him that if this happens again like something more uh more explosive could happen and also Jacob fry had been warned that and he admitted he admitted so much in a New York Times interview I think like week after he said that he had been warned that that was going to happen so I think neither of them neither of them wanted to take wanted to be the face of uh George Floyd Minnesota Minneapolis and they were trying to shift the blame onto one another basically it it was crazy because in reading that and and you had mentioned another police killing that happened during the Derek chovin trial correct yeah yeah so that that is what I really wanted to get across in my article which I felt was or at least one of the key points that I wanted to raise that I felt like I could uh that I could be useful in this discourse because no one was everyone was bringing up everyone I mean people were responding to JD Vance and Trump in the right making this attack on walls that was obviously in bad faith obviously a lie like we saw that the audio came out of trump that you mentioned at the beginning that he complements his approach um but they found it to be politically useful to sort of remind people of 2020 Minneapolis burning this guy is speckless and weak they want to portray the Democrats as weak but what no one was talking about because it wasn't politically useful to Republicans Or democrats was what happened in 2021 in Minneapolis where the Derek chovin trial is happening and walls and law enforcement leaders around the state have uh announced anounced you know in the weeks leading up to the trial they said we're going to have this multi-jurisdictional law enforcement initiative called Operation Safety net which you know it's like sounds kind of dystopian but it's like to basically what happened in 2020 cannot happen again that's that was like the sort of message sent they even had police coming in from Nebraska and Ohio to sort of crazy when you wrote that yeah they had the National Guard sort of preoccupying the city so this is all this is all in anticipation of a not guilty verdict in the chovin trial and then in the middle of the trial in a suburb that is just north of Minneapolis called Brooklyn God is it Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center I'm forgetting there there two suburbs right next Brooklyn is it Brooklyn Heights or no no Brooklyn I think it's Brooklyn Center Brooklyn Center I'm sorry that was that was embarrassing as a a minneap Minneapolis resident but in Brooklyn Center a kid named Dante Wright is pulled over and shot and killed he's pulled over for a air freshener the police the police officer thinks that she's re reaching for her taser that's her defense shoots and kills him and so not don't like the so the law enforcement response is already there for a response to a not-guilty Chauvin verdict and all of the national media is already in Minneapolis reporting on the trial like more journalists than you'd ever see somewhere and everyone goes to the Brooklyn Center police station and then there's another standoff outside of another police station after another police killing in Minnesota and it is a very very heavy-handed response journalists are detained journalists are like told God I forget they were like told to go home and I was there as like a you know I was a freelancer I didn't have any proper credentials and I I was more scared in that setting than I was at any point during 2020 even though that was arguably like a crazier situation it was it was a a there was a sense like that um they were going to come with sort of overwhelming Force to prevent another 2020 from happening and walls was then after that admitted that it was a failure and that he that the way that media was treated especially was completely um completely unacceptable there was an apartment complex across the street from the police station and they shot so much tear gas that people in that apartment complex were were affected and were having health issues and there was kids that were affected by the tear to move people out and so but no one you know no one in the in this partisan war of an election is that's it's not useful to anyone because Democrats don't want to talk about that um about walls doing exactly what Republicans want you know with a very heavy-handed response and Republicans don't want to talk about that because the makes it's what his walls is doing what they want what they would want to do so um that was something that I wanted to introduced because it was it was missing and I you know I interviewed um a couple people including the uh mayoral candidate in in 20 uh 21 in Minneapolis who is a uh you know an abolitionist from that movement and you know she said this is it's it's laughable it's ridiculous to say that walls is some kind of like Ally of protest movements and and that he after George Floyd what he you know what he actually really did was build a police superpower rather than try to reign in or improve uh improve protest response in a more like Hume way that wouldn't potentially aggravate you know so you were there when all that was going on and I think this is where we started communicating was during this time of protest because for me watching it was really interesting because as a California Native uh one of the things that we think about when we think about the 90s and Hiphop and uprisings is the riots that follow the Rodney King verdict and how iconic certain images are of that era um the amount of money and damage it caused to that area and how that area has changed even to this day in Southern California now there was also a ridiculous amount of damage done uh in Minneapolis during this this time and to your point I agree with you wholeheartedly right that a lot of people that are involved are apolitical but there's a lot going on and the Trump era may maybe this is I don't want to speak for phando castile's Mom but maybe this is what she's getting at there's a mood in that moment where we're afraid of this idea of authoritarianism and there was a lot of coverage of these shootings right it's if it if if it leads it bleeds is one thing which isn't 100% true but there's a certain kind of bleeding that leads to a certain kind of leading and when people of color are killed by law enforcement and it's happening during a trump regime where he just feels very very comfortable uh being so racist um in his public statements uh it did it did give you certain feeling I mean did you feel that way as well TUC Sant during that time in New York what do you mean I mean cops in New York suck already you didn't really need Trump to know that but did it feel like there was a powder keg even in your city that one thing could go sideways and it's going to blow up into a uh a South Central wats type Riot for you as well there's definitely feelings that certain protest that if one person throws a bottle it's just going to be set off it's just gonna be set off yeah yeah well you I mean um so yeah I we say like the to bring up um La is that I think Minneapolis is the second next to La 92 is the second most amount of Destruction caused by like one period of civil unrest in America or at least in in recent American history um think more or maybe sorry since 92 that's that's what I want to say I could see that I because because there was 68 and and those long hot summers and such but um I mean you guys have had uh Vincent bevans on here talking about his his book like the and I and I referen it I I interviewed him and I I link I hyperlink it to the piece where I say it's like the iron law of 21st century protests is that you there's an inciting incident there's protests police crack down with like an over like a over-the-top asymmetrical and then asymmetrical response videos of that spread like wildfire and next thing you know the next day the streets are double the amount of people and you just sort of rinse and repeat until it reaches like a fever pitch where people are burning down a police station um and so I think that that is like in simp you know in the simplest way you could think of it like that but I do also the the further away I get and this just I think from the benefit of of perspective and hindsight at the time it was hard to know like I went back to like what I was writing at the time and I did I did write like this probably has to do with covid but it's like the more time passes I'm like Co had a lot to do with the level yes yes Trump trump it feeling like it was like destitute like shit's already seeming like like what is happening with the world there's such an uncertainty we have this like authoritarian president who seems like he doesn't care about like Americans like well-being like the I don't know if I think it was maybe just as the sort of like pandemic unemployment was GNA was like about to kick in um but it just I think it was people were such so on edge um that it was like that a powder keg that I don't think you can recreate I could be wrong but I don't know if I agree I don't think you can I agree without a a certain level of deprivation of the average person in a in a an elimination of all potential distractions you know yes I've never seen a perfect moment like that for that to happen other than 92 yeah my thing is I feel like with 92 it's looked at as this moment that we always look at for so many bad reasons and we don't understand their bad reasons right like 92 soon ushers in the 94 crime Bill 92 is a lot of uh respectability politics is a reason why this happened you know these fatherless Negroes right and uh all these illegals that's really the problem um the conservatism in the 90s I think we forget and for 2020 it seems to be quite the opposite right because everyone's talking about the problem is Wayward law enforcement and we need to um just get rid of them because there's nothing you can do with them and just abolish this whole system of law enforcement because all they're ever going to do is just is just ravage poor poor black people and it felt like as soon as all the people that position themselves got got what they wanted either political positions or Foundation money more so the foundation side then 2020 now is this moment that we forget if you were to ask the average person what's 2020 only someone that's predominantly online which is a very small section of society uh would maybe say George Floyd summer yeah there's so many other things people might even think about they might say Co um but they're definitely not gonna say uh George Floyd summer and these protests and and my Netflix having a black Cinema suggestion as I turn it on right yeah yeah I mean or people that were like involved in it but even that sometimes like there was a lot of people that summer I mean that the numbers bear it out where it was like more people protesting uh you know than have in like the history of America before more people at the street at the same time and that's like a lot of people going to their first protest and it's hard to know like what what meaning people made of that at the time um and I I have been I yeah I I've been kind of shocked at how much how easily it's been memory hold but I guess that's sort of like the the way things go now you know like Trump was almost assassinated and that's barely even a a footnote anymore it's no one talks about that that crazy crazy we're witnessing to some I don't know how you feel about this you know I go on about this way too much and again thank you aan for taking the time to to come and talk with us wherever you're watching listening to the show there's links in the description to Aman's piece the assassination attempt on Donald Trump could have been catastrophic if you kind of think about it he's a very divisive figure and that could have played into so many people's tinfoil hat theories on how they see the world which again all this stuff really gets ramped up in the 2016 election like the Post Obama moment coupled with the rise of trump or right-wing populism if that's what you want to call it because it's not just here there is a global phenomenon of right-wing populism around the same time and conspiracy theory to the point where we're rehashing through qanon debunked conspiracy theories like the satanic panic and everyone's a child molester and then the the greatest thing that ever happened for everyone that says you know I read this on X website airgo I'm an expert is Jeffrey Epstein and his death so we're talking about this moment with I don't know if it could ever happen again I don't want it to ever happen again um but a lot goes into 2020 that isn't just sadly the life and death of a man named George Floyd even though we call it that he you know right I think he is the straw ultimately yeah um because he's not the only person killed that year right that was a big time killing right Banna Taylor was a big killing Ahad arur was a big killing that I can think about my head I don't know if there's any more than that those were the big those were the kind of the big ones that at the time I think people were talking about but yeah I mean I think that but I I also think that that is the that is historically true of most rebellions uh you know Urban rebellions in American history is that they're almost always catalyzed by a Act of police violence but they are always they are always about something much bigger than that act of police violence and about uh what a community has been going through and it's a straw that broke the camp back situation and I think there had there had been big protests that almost spiraled out of control in Minneapolis before in the in the uh in that preceding decade um but I think it was like you said this like perfect situation with yet another police killing a uh populace in Minneapolis that was fairly experienced in protesting or like experience with that response with a ton of people that were newly whatever you want to call radicalized or moves mobilized to get out on the streets um uh and so yeah I think I do yeah and I do think that it's uh that it's true is that it's it it's a lot more about this guy this one fairly regular guy named George Floyd in Minneapolis but it's uh it was about much more but that's that's always kind of how it has been with these sorts of uh explosions in in American history and just you of you know like broadly like the um thing that kicked off the you know the Arab Spring in Tunisia it was the the vendor vendor self- ulating that you know sort of like a catalyst Brader protest explosion so um yeah I I I think that's that's true but has kind of always been true but maybe I'm assuming the level to which he has been made a martyr by media and like the yeah NGO apparatus that could be different you know I wasn't I wasn't I was born I wasn't you know I don't I don't quite you know Rodney King unlike George unlike George Floyd Rodney King lived right and what makes Rodney King kind of a gettable figure for some and even a joke because you were born 91 so you don't remember this in especially in the urban spaces we'll call them we'll call them Urban spaces uh the joke was Rodney King spoke right he was like Michael Jackson in the 90s people forget Michael Jackson didn't speak never really did interviews if he did was real quick he sunglasses on he was he was cool and he was out and George or not George Floyd Rodney King spoke he didn't want to speak and what he had just witnessed kind of in his name really [ __ ] him up and for me when you watch him speak he's kind of he's nervous can't we all just get along that's that's that's what people remember about that but he he also talks about seeing a dead man in front of him oh wow and he's like you know people are and then also people forget like Reginal Denny and the other gentleman that was pulled out of a a truck and and beat up that was a lot to witness and have and witness that all in your name right it wasn't like he felt Vindicated in this because these people don't know him they don't know what he wants out of this they don't know how he feels about this yeah and he was for there's people that knew him through rehab and have told me and this is all anecdotal they've told me that he was such a gentle person and kind of a softspoken man and you take this guy you put him in front of cameras and he became fod for every comedian everybody is stuck in 1968 they wanted him to have a dashiki on and a blackfist and say all the things that they wanted to hear and you didn't get that out of this very timid large man and you forget for a moment you know him not because of the words he's written or because of the protests he's LED you know him because he got his ass whooped remember that you know him because he got his ass whooped why do you want him why does he need to be your spokesperson first and foremost and the backlash he got really effed him up mentally and he you know kind of fell into addiction I believe he died of an overdose [Music] um George Floyd doesn't get that because he never got to speak so he can be anything you want him to be and everybody got to project on to George Floyd and that moment everything they want it yeah I mean it's like George George there's George Floyd Floyd the symbol and there's George Floyd The Man and those are kind of two different things um I think they like a great uh a great piece of Journalism that sort of explores this question and this division between someone's like this the the you know uh martyr for racial Justice that he became and the symbol about um undressed policing in America that he became versus the just uh guy that he was was uh again same reporter Robert Samuels in the Washington Post uh did a profile of George Floyd's girlfriend um on and off friend who was not in the spotlight at all and uh I think that the headline is sort of like Floyd was my man but George Floyd is a movement and that kind of says it all you know like yeah and that there's a lot of ambivalence with her she was also white you know so it's like uh and she didn't really know his family and so then like she wasn't really weren't they both kind of methed out I I not not meth um I believe uh painkillers they both had with that and um you know she was she was in the trial um and yeah no I just I thought it was it's a very well done sensitively like uh respectfully done profile of her and the the really tough kind of human story in that like this this guy versus this idea that has catalyzed the nation um so yeah it's that's it's yeah it's tough um do you think it was by design that people didn't know much about his girlfriend I don't know if design is the right I think just by the circumstances of it like the way it the way it is written in the article is sort of uh she and him had an on again off again relationship and then they also she is sort of a you know because they they sometimes used together she sort of a was and I don't know if she had met his family before so she's sort of out of town girlfriend white girl they sort of affiliated with her with like a dark period in his life so I just think that there and I think also he made a concerted effort to sort of step back from the situation I think I think probably for her own mental health as well like she didn't want to be uh a symbol but then she has she has like uh in the years since she's befriended um this group this really amazing group called family supporting families of victims of police violence that's based in Minnesota led by this woman tshir gay that is all it's a group it's sort of a support group of families of of victims of police brutality that a lot of them that weren't like kind of big in the headlines ones and um I she has been I think embraced by them and has gone to some of their events and has become sort of part of that um community and support group but uh yeah I I don't know I can't really speculate whether it's by Design but I think it's it was by the sort of circumstances of the moment um but yeah I I definitely recommend people read that piece by uh Robert Samuels in the post are you going to write the definitive uh Mike Davis like story of your hood oh man from lovely California a very in-depth uh door stopper book that's GNA talk about the history of Minneapolis and the St Paul sound and why Prince and the time is the baddest MFS around and I just last City to really oh man um you're not the first person who said that to me it's definitely would be a big undertaking but I do have um I've got some things cooking right now longer form sort of Reflections on that that that will be at least the start of a of maybe a bigger project but no nothing nothing is solidified yet but I'm I like the you know city of Courts that's big that's a big uh thing to try to uh try to match but it would be yeah it would be a really it would be very fun um to do that you have to love where you're from to write that I was just uh say sorry say that again I said you have to love where you're from to write something like that and I think you love where you're from yeah yeah and I have I I think moving away I have some some perspective on it now but on the I was just gonna say I was just home for a bit and I saw uh Jimmy Jam perform with his Dad a 97y old jazz piano player that still plays out with a band and sings and is on the piano player piano and they did like a uh this this local journalist just wrote a a biography of his dad cornbread Harris and he he's been playing since like the 50s you know and him and Jimmy Jim were Jam you know Jimmy Jam's on the keys and and corber Harris is on the piano um but uh yeah they're um I'm also surprised at the just broadly speaking the lack of big uh books Reflections on 2020 there's been some um like I've got you know I have Cedric Johnson's book there's another book called states of incarceration that's good uh I I interviewed the author of this book called The Minneapolis Reckoning who's a a professor of Sociology at in uh the University of Minnesota who I think is the the book is if someone was gonna ask me like what what happen in 2020 I would give them that but there's also like a lot of there's a lot more meat on the bone what exactly happened um and how to make sense of it so um yeah I'll take that uh I'll take that as encouragement we'll see I don't even know if people gonna remember Standing Rock okay so that is another that leads me to another I think important thing to raise about Tim Walls that has also made me a little bit um feel like I'm going insane uh is that in the in the sort of uh news cycle after he was selected I saw I saw three or four different articles in National Publications reputable even by some reporters I like saying that Tim Walls was like a climate champion and that he was like environmentalist where basically had a I mean like if there was a if there was a second Standing Rock in America like since then it that was it was line three in Minnesota in like 2021 in the summer of 2021 but they did a very good job uh studying Standing Rock and preventing that from happening again there's a really good series on The Intercept I'd recommend everyone checked out by a a great journalist named Alene Brown called she called it a um uh corporate counterinsurgency and how the oil company sort of uh defanged potential protest responses to this but Tim Walls so so line three was a a oil pipeline that was corroding and that they were going to rebuild but they were going to rebuild it to be several times bigger than it was before and it was going to go across treaty protected land Minnesota has a fairly sizable native population in uh that have very generous treaties compared to a lot of other states um and Tim Walls while he was running he tweeted any pipeline that goes across treaty land is a non-starter for me and then he picked an indigenous lieutenant governor and then did a couple like kind of pump the breaks like they need to study more but then let it go let it rip the pipeline was built and the biggest Scandal of that or one of the big bigger scandals of that is that the as part of their permit Enbridge the oil company paid the uh overtime and for supplies for the protest supression by the police by Minnesota law enforcement it was paid by the oil company they were invoicing oil company for all of their uh all of their protest related Civil Disobedience related response the oil company was paying for that and so that was like I'm like you can't write about Tim Wall's climate record and not right about the biggest climate story of his entire career and so that was just like I don't know what if people were on Deadline and didn't do their homework but it was really it was it was starting to make me feel crazy that there wasn't even a there wasn't even a a to be sure like a lot of the articles that are sort of uh uh writing about him in a positive light from the left they do a sort of throw wrot clearing to be sure he did this in 2020 I'm a journalist I've done that before with things like it's just part of the game sometimes you have to do that and no one no one even did that and so that's like and again this isn't to like make him into some everyone's actually totally has it backwards and he's this big villain but it's to say like let's just be real about his record um which I don't I think people I think the bar maybe has been lowered I think people on the left are maybe really really really hungry for a win and what feels like a win and it's sort of I mean you could argue it reflects some changes in um priorities of the democratic party that select someone like walls um someone who doesn't have an elite college background didn't go to law school like those are all things that does that speak though to a certain aspect of left uh intelligencia that is extremely PMC that loves the veneer of working class A shockness and like you got to get the a shuck guy in here because look how a shuck he is all the pearls will love it I think there's a I think there's a little bit of that yeah um and like a a a regional like uh like there's it's the midwestern it's the hunting it's he hunts he wears flannel he's a football coach he very folky he's a very like he's a good dad he was a teacher he's a National Guard that's another thing to say when he called the National Guard he himself was National Guard and so in those statements he started to sound a lot less like a uh fun Midwestern football coach and more like a National Guard Sergeant or whatever the um his position was that he maybe had bended the truth about at certain points but um he uh I I do think yeah I I do think you're right about that but I also do think he he does have some of those bonafides where he was his first time in Congress in ' 06 like he did win a red district and he does he had one pretty good in rural areas but as things have polarized in America since then and in Minnesota even he's has he has less and less support in his old congressional district as governor and a lot of his support now comes from the Twin Cities and the Twin City suburbs like every other Democrat um so yeah I do think that there is there is some of that uh like there's a little bit in the same way I think people were really really excited about uh Federman um yeah some of the similar thing and that he kind of he breaks through this just by the nature of his self-presentation he breaks through sort of like cultural baggage that Democrats have that is like like you said PMC cities uh turn your nose up at you but we shouldn't over we shouldn't overstate how well walls does in like uh you know he's not he's not like Andy Basher who's a Democrat who wins a state that is plus 26 for Trump you know Minnesota's still like a PL you know it still goes for Democrats so he's not like doing so some uh kind of crazy defying All Odds as a democrat in a red State um it's very much a blue with the right C you know 2016 it started to Veer more into purple and I think even with Biden on the ticket Minnesota started to seem like it was up for like it was like up for it was in play um which is not a good sign you know it hasn't gone Minnesota hasn't gone for a republican since like the early 70s I want to say um you know it's famously the only state that Walter Mondale won because he was from there a lot of people don't know who Walter A lot of people don't know who Walter Mondale is watching the show right now he lost against Ronald Reagan so take a look was it Reagan or bush I forgot was Reagan it was re yeah uh who ran against Bush I don't remember Michael dakus thank you I just just watched the Lee atwat documentary the other night which I would highly recommend um very the one that was on Showtime I think it was on Showtime I watched it it's free on tuby but um it's uh oh it's on tuby no more Jason's favorite Channel I I'm like damn I'm gonna start looking at tuby but yeah the Le atw one is good it it interviews Michael dakus and he is just like the husk of a man he he just looks like because it it goes through the whole Willie Horton thing and Dukakis like o he like didn't want he like didn't respond that was his his like strategy he like I'm not going to respond to this and it the rest was history he didn't want to yeah he didn't want to end the program which he thought was a decent program and I'm sorry if you guys hear dogs barking there's two rapy dogs behind me and they are just so rapy oh oh I when I say that people don't believe me like what are you talking about I was like it is it is it's it's like a scene from the movie Penitentiary or Oz for you younger people every time the one there's the one dog that tries like hello and the other one just shut up and just starts [ __ ] the [ __ ] out of him you're like whoa whoa it's not how anything is supposed to react very not Tim Walls very not wholesome very not demure very not sweet no no not demure at all not deure at all um [ __ ] see they're barking right now [ __ ] me I was gonna ask you a question I forgot where they up in the windows uh look we we've had aimon on for for long enough uh and let's go to the champagne room are you gonna join us in the champagne room I'm down we can talk we can talk the greatness of Minneapolis music um I feel like dude did you read that did you read that New York Times article about the prince documentary that's like not gonna come out no I did see that I saw that it wasn't coming out yeah it's it's by the guy who made OJ maid in America and it's nine hours [ __ ] that guy supposed to be like wow why you that's a great oh man I know you should revisit it I think it's great we need to watch three times we need to talk about Young Thug he needs a documentary for his trial yeah rest in peace uh Rich homi Quan Young Thug's uh partner um and uh just passed away last week very very unfortunate um but uh yeah happy to join you guys in the champagne room talk uh Young Thug talk Prince talk most you feel comfortable talking about talking about uh Moors Moors oh boy like m o o r m o o r uh I don't know if I'm educated enough Tu did you watch the video I sent you on the morish is it the The Sovereign citizens or like oh yeah I'm a little I'm a little bit red up on that I don't know if enough to talk with I didn't know it's fine it's fine them people are so mad at me oh well not them people but the black Israelites got mad at me and then I ran into them in San Francis because you know they're right by pal Street BART uhuh right and uh they've asked for a while to come on and I just can't I can't I've said no a few times aware of your show the the ones from the Bay by the way and do they know do they you from like they know you in person from like back in the day kind of thing wow I don't know none of these [ __ ] and I'm walking I was walk so I was staying in Union Square a few a few months ago and I was walking a b to go see my son in Oakland and as I'm walking AB Bart I totally forgot I forgot I forgot a couple things a I've purposely pissed some people off B uh that's just the way I roll and c I forgot where the [ __ ] I was and I walked to Pal Street and it's it's still early in the afternoon and them cats is out there you know yelling at white people and I'm walking to the you don't know what used to be the old uh Verizon building and I'm as I'm walking to because I'm walking down pal literally down pow uh passing the the turnaround for the [ __ ] trolley and I'm going down the stairs and one of them hits the other one and a point to me oh my God and I thought to myself I thought to myself well you know sometimes them checks just got to get cashed and I just I just kept walking and I was like if it's gonna happen it's gonna happen but I just gotta keep walking I can't confront it what how do they know who you are like they they've like come at you online before they've never come at me it's always been there's there's actually an air of professionalism I would say and I don't know how big their online presence is maybe I just don't see anything but I get me I've gotten messages pretty consistently I would say for the last how long to sign like two years maybe yeah about that least wow yeah it was somebody said there you go it was I've never had something feel like and I was like man I I actually talk all this well you know I do and I feel a certain way and I also feel like those those cats if they were to like run up on me it wouldn't be to [ __ ] me up it would probably be to like confront me verbally sure and I'm totally fine with that you talk about me and my mama I really don't give a [ __ ] just please keep your weapons to yourselves but yeah I just I walk that street so much I'm just envisioning you walking through where that trolley is with all the because you know exactly what I'm talking about oh it [ __ ] me up it [ __ ] me up because if I see people I know in the city which is really rare nowadays yeah I bet um it's like Jay this wasn't Jay this was [Laughter] T [Laughter] damn so it was just it was just the uh it was just the point there there nothing else came with it they didn't end up they didn't they didn't they didn't [ __ ] with me I just I maybe they thought I was someone else or what I don't know all I know is I've never I should say never that was a very uncomfortable feeling to have at that historically aan was my favorite BART station as a kid growing up in Richmond California it was $4 round trip when I was in high school to take the train from Richmond to Pal Street there's a big mall there there's a downtown there so I would just go by myself yeah and you could just hang out meet new friends I I love San Francisco love San Francisco it's one of my favorite cities on the planet um so I still walk I I still make it a point to go to that bar station I try to stay near that b station M you know you San Francisco seven square miles you can walk around all of downtown I don't know if you know this on oeral there's an allight uh Pizza Joint that sells deep fried Oreos at four in the morning so if you get the craving yeah brother yeah yeah so you know I felt bad because that's a newer thing those cats being there I would say in the last eight maybe 10 years them being there yelling at white people with the African bambata fits uh yeah I said it they knew what the [ __ ] they was where when they left the house uh so so that whole area just is it's so different now with like all the stores leaving and the mall possibly closing and I know I mean there's still look there's still high-end shopping there uh again Ricky Ricky piol got shot not far from what we're talking about um walking distance from what we're talking about so can you still get a $30,000 watch down the street from what we're talking about yeah yeah um so it's just that area is a little different yeah retail that's still there but um yeah yeah it's sort of you know and it's always it's going to be made all about crime and disorder and I'm not that's definitely part of it but then there's also just the death of retail in general and the lack you know the whole Tech downturn and the just less people downtown as well to potentially you know frequent those businesses and such I mean you know that's still the best Levi store in America right there oh in the in the Westfield Mall no I in Westfield it's outside of it it used to be right next to so oh yeah on Market so okay on Market yeah yeah yeah that's still that's still the most badass Levi store you can get you can get your own Levis made there oh [ __ ] all right check that out it's very expensive if you if you tell me you got your own Levis made then I'm GNA tell everybody your trust fun baby definitely have not got my Steve says Jason which blacks do you not have beef with I don't know there a few [ __ ] in my family I'm cool with [Laughter] Aon thank you guys so much we're gonna be going to the champagne room if you guys are patrons the link is already up if you want to just watch the show and not become a patron the champagne room patreon is letting you purchase one episode so you can actually just purchas the episode if you want to and watch us talk about hip hop chime in if you disagree with my take almost def I'm sure most of you will because you [ __ ] love him he's your he's your Jesus not me not me Tucson just is going to be so mad at me in this this is this is the most East Co show we've ever done I'mma come out I'mma come out in the champagne room like [Laughter] Pac [ __ ] most St in The Click your [Laughter] claim oh God can you imagine all the light-skinned scants that love most def get mad at me in the comments why they have light skin come on it's most def damn that's crazy only dark skinn [ __ ] he know is [Laughter] qu all right I'm done I'm done talking about mosta until the champagne room get ready I know all of you forgot this most deaf clip and I'm going to bring it back so you can watch it and enjoy it with us and on that note we are out peace [Music] oh [Music]