Barry Stanton: A dead industry?

so it's been a while since we've had a thinking Thursday and I've been very keen to get Barry Stanton back involved again um for various reasons I don't know many people who have a a more widespread knowledge of the industry both as an owner and as track management and of course involved within those tracks or at least some of the tracks in terms of the betting industry um Barry lovely to see you again nice nice that you're not on holiday for a change to be honest but uh I made a special exception for you Floyd very very decent are you um one of the kind of the theories that I wanted to go down um looking at today was was people talking about the industry dying and uh I can see why they think it's dying personally I don't think it is but it's the analogy I would make and ask you to to comment on is that it's almost like planet Earth um people going oh we're killing planet Earth you know with pollution or whatever it may be and I'm going well no you won't actually kill planet Earth you'll just make it unsurvivable for human beings planet Earth will be fine and to a certain extent I feel that about the grand industry um there's a lot of money still bet on Greyhounds around the world um kovid has brought in a big expansion in the digital Market um that might not otherwise have happened um but for some of the people that we know or the industries we recognize yes there is part of that that could become extinct the the the kind particularly on the ownership side the traditional um race nights that kind of thing what's your view on that well I I agree with you in the I think greyhound racing will continue but possibly just the worst form that we're experiencing now and and to everybody that's you know really interested in greyhound racing has grown up the greyhound racing they must be a despair as to what is happening out there um I think the reality is that the media contracts have provided in income to the promoters that support the business or the the their initiatives in that um they don't have to open the doors to the general public any longer they don't need to have footfall coming through the turnstiles I mean it's okay if they do turn up that's okay but as long as they can meet the requirements of their contract that is of prime importance to them I mean if you take an example I mean Craven and I can speak quite knowledgeably about crave and having run the track for like 20 years if they don't have a media contract uh on a Saturday night or they're not on pgtv they don't race and I know for a fact with the crowds they've got the catchment area they've got but that would be a very profitable evening to them but they can't be bothered and I don't know whether that's laziness or whether or not they have other issues with Staffing which they I think most of the I think entain tracks did at Christmas they they didn't race at all on boxing day um so the actual concern of you know the promoter as it was when I was involved it's you know we must get them through the doors we've got our overheads to cover um it's no longer there so as long as they can put 12 races out on a morning or an afternoon or whenever it may be then then they're happy and I think if you know if you if you if you extend that um the only people that are going to be interested in going to those tracks or watching that racing the people that are already involved in it you're not you're not showcasing it to the outside side world and I think you know that that that's the that the decline of that started when we when we um lost our Sky contract is as simple as that we didn't we weren't showcasing our main events we weren't marketing on the back of the uh of Sky Sports at that uh any longer and I think because of that the interest declined and it's got to the stage now where you know you can one man and installed watching a greyhound race in the morning or in the afternoon uh very people very few uh tracks there were no tracks racing them got immediate contracts in the evenings and I think that that just spells disaster I mean as a spectator sport I think it's it's on a very steep decline which is interesting because you know we talk about Saturday night if I said to you okay you're still the the general manager at crayford um how do you get people in on a Tuesday night or don't you even try um well you try I mean you know um we had a marketing department back in those days I you see I don't know what the setup is now and I don't know where the uh the the you know the the focus is but we had marketing departments we tried to bring in different groups of people um we were unsuccessful on a Monday night that's why we actually changed I think it was in 2009 there from a Monday to a Friday uh and that was successful in that we went from maybe 200 people attending to 500 people attending but the point is the people the general public aren't seeing greyhound racing on the television they're not reading about it in the local press um they're not being attracted to the track they won't come and and you know boxing day is a prime example we try to you know we we it was the largest crowd as it would be at any track on boxing day you've got a captive audience and you can actually try and do something to bring them back at least a couple of times during the course of the year and if you do that enough times you know you're building up a core base of uh of attendees the other thing of course is ownership is on the decline I don't know what the numbers are at the moment but I don't think there's anything attractive about owning a greyhound any longer in fact I think most people would see it as a liability and uh you know coming back I know we may talk about the gbgb later on but I think you know gbgb the industry is the one you know it's focused on only one thing these days and that's welfare um money all the money is being directed towards welfare the fit I mean the whole thing is intertwined I mean if you attract people to a stadium then you have to give them facilities that will want make them feel comfortable give them an enjoyable evening and want them to come back in the old day in the old you know when I say the old days 10 years ago whatever there was a sum of money that was going into um uh to the tracks for for developing the tracks to improving facilities let's buy and buy a large stock now there is no investment within the stadium all of the money is going towards um welfare and and of course the industry as a a um as a sport uh is is dying because of it uh I I think tied into that there's an additional problem is they're not in that if you said okay we wanted to go back to our to our Fridays um how do you put first start how many people do you need through the gate to actually make it viable if it's not for a um a betting shop meeting um and secondly how do you put on your Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning whatever day how do you put the other meeting for simply for a lack of dogs well I mean some tracks are racing six days a week aren't they I mean I don't think there's a lack of dogs I just think I mean it there's a perception that there's a lack of dogs because um there are so many four and five dog races but if you if you actually look at the the way in which those uh bacon traps are falling they're probably more uh inclined towards them towards them towards the morning meetings um and there are no traveling reserves anymore I mean in my day you'd have 25 dogs on the bands that were there ready to fill vacant traps you know dogs that hadn't been notified hadn't turned up or whatever but there isn't now there are no traveling reserves morning meetings and to an extent early afternoon meetings there isn't the time to fill those traps I think if you look at the numbers don't think the numbers have declined um I just think it's the makeup of the race program but coming back to the original question I think you know if you open on the evening you're only going to open and it's important from a public perception point if you're into increase attendance you open on the weekend you open on a Friday night and a Saturday night Saturday night and if you Market it correctly and you're in a reasonable catchment area you are going to bring people in and four or 500 people made our Friday nights at crayford extremely viable now there is one there is one promoter I mean there isn't the uh the determination of the promoters to do that I I I don't think it's one promoter that's trying and that's uh Kevin boothby I mean he tried on a toaster on a Saturday night for as long as he could he's trying again at the weekend at Oxford um and hopefully it'll be successful but from from what you know from what I've heard it is it is bringing in the in in the public so it does work but it has to be in a week you know on a day that people are um available to actually go and and enjoy their Leisure pound and to be honest I I think we're I slightly disagree with you in terms of the numbers I I think some of these tracks that I speak to they can just about scrape the dogs together for their for their two or three um sis or art meetings and no I no I agree with you sorry but when I said in total numbers I don't think there is a decline I think that it's the spread of greyhounds there are tracks that are suffering more than others so I grew entitled with you and uh you know um it is very difficult and it and again it's down to what is available but it's also down to the management of the group of trainers that you have to be honest I mean you know I'm not um cutting you know I I think that's the the honest answer to that that you have to support these trainers in one way or another and you have to be interested in their business and and and and and and and try and guide them in the right direction because not many not all of them are businessmen you know they they find it difficult to run a business and and they need guidance and they need help and they and then need support and I think you get commitment from them when you actually provide that going going back going back to talking about these four and five dog races when you were a general manager um you would have had bags on your case on a reasonable if not golden Bisset on your case on a reasonably regular basis saying why were the two five dog races at your last meeting now there's a proliferation of four and five dog races at so many meetings um do you think that it makes a significant difference to the betting I mean I I bought the subject up on Twitter recently and and I was basically told no providing the margins are there they don't really care that the betting industry doesn't really care do you think that's the case or do you think we're going off the six dog races if I don't care then things have changed since uh since I was running a track uh they care from the point of view the turnover is hit and multiple bets are affected um trap challenges all of that sort of thing would be if it would be affected and um yeah they want some consistency as the uh as the customer and the punter wants consistency um but yeah I I just think it sends out the wrong message when you have a track and you're putting out so many and not only four or five dog races there's so many Sprint the proliferation of sprint races I mean I've never been a great fan of sprint races to be honest I mean most strikes will have a Sprint race and the dogs wouldn't even pass the grandstand you know where people are sitting eating that the race would be over before they saw an adult pass them and uh yeah obviously they're necessary at times um but at the moment it's almost an accepted way to fulfill the the their contract and uh for me that would be unacceptable do you think I had a theory again um which I'd be interested to to know your views on where are we saying that there's a thin spread of dogs wouldn't it be in the bookmaker's best interest to say we'll have I don't know 10 good races rather than 12 bad races um well I think that's been done in the past and I think it's you know if you if you talk to a media company they probably would want you know if it was a short-term problem they would probably listen and be be as helpful as they possibly could I just think it's when when you know you you haven't got the dogs on the strength you shrugged your shoulders now we'll put out you know what whatever we can that isn't the attitude you know you have to take ownership of that problem and do something about it um I think yeah but I think you're right I think bookmakers would prefer full track you know full six dog races rather than um you know a load of five dog and four Duggars that's for sure