A Giant Issue: New York Giant's GM Joe Schoen Said What?

New York Giants GM Joe Shane said something that I I just quite honestly could not believe I I I think I'm G to try to make make make it rational I think I'm GNA try to give it some reason but man do I have questions I am I'm coach Jean Clemens and I have a giant issue 3 2 1 go [Music] ladies and gentlemen welcome back to a giant issue I am coach Jean Clemens New York Giants on SI make sure you're going there for all of your New York Giants information and news up to date um I dropped a a Daniel Jones breakdown of every single throw that he threw in the second preseason game go and check that out um put a lot of painstaking work into that um and so I appreciate if you go and check that out but also make sure that you like this that you subscribe that you leave a comment because we need the algorithm algorithm right we are trying to get to 2,000 subscribers before game one before we hit week one of the NFL regular season and we are running out of time ladies and gentlemen but I thank you to all of the people who have subscribed to all of the people who tune in to a giant issue to all the people who tune in to the bit blue um breakdown because anything that we're doing on the New York Giants on SI um YouTube channel is for you and to all the people who listen out there on Spotify and on Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast we appreciate you as well I was scrolling through the the internet the interwebs I was on X as usual looking at stuff and I ran across um Ryan duny um who is an NFL reporter for the New York Post um and he used to obviously used to go and and work for the New York Giants I'm assuming in their media Department um used to work for WFAN mornings with um Boomerang Gio used the work for New York J I mean sorry new jersey.com um in in other words you know he's he's seen some things he's done some stuff right and he had a post that and I don't fire follow Ryan duny and um it's not because I don't like Ryan duny but just just there's just a lot of New York media people um and so I just wasn't following them I'm actually following them now though because I like when I hear from fellow um journalists about what what's going on in the world that I'm involved in right I don't I don't act like I touch all of the areas of of Journalism no journalist does and every time one tries to act like they do everything they seem to be lame right so I I appreciate the people who do the things that they do when it's different than the things that I do I actually appreciate the people that do the things that I do if they know what they're talking about right um but he had a quote and it says um well first he says Giants GM Joe Shane says part of Daniel Jones agents selling point to him on the four-year $160 million contract extension was that a bunch of other QBs were coming up soon for extensions and that the number wasn't going to be as top of the market as it seemed the quote there's not really a middle class of QBs right now trust me that was the sale of the agent at the time they do their homework too all these guys are coming up right so the context of it was and this is all from Ryan dun and shout out to him at at Ry dun leevy go ahead and give him a follow if you're not already already following him the context of it was is that is that Jones was a top 10 paid quarterback when he signed and now he's 14th through 17th right so that would imply that Daniel Jones is in fact the 14th to 17th best quarterback in the NFL now I'm not here to diss Daniel Jones and about getting his money I think it's fantastic anytime a player can get their money but at the time if if anybody remembers what I said I said he held him at gunpoint I said that he held the Giants at gunpoint because there is no way that I would have given him an extension I would have 100% 100% paid Squan Barkley franchise tagged him or moved on anyway because I thought whatever he did in 2022 was going to be the ceiling of what he could do for me and that's not good enough to win a championship right at the time I said that he held him up at gunpoint he's the reason why the saquan um Barkley relationship went stale Then I then I but I was wrong on that obviously because now I realize that Joe Shane just doesn't value like running backs and kind of lowkey doesn't really want to pay anybody that isn't a um a highlevel guy at a premium position and since running back is in a premium position and safety is in a premium position if he ain't draft him or he ain't bringing them in then he ain't paying them right so I go in there with that thought process right but I'm looking at Daniel Jones and saying okay this makes sense if Daniel Jones is in fact a 14 to 17th rank quarterback now I don't really have um I don't really have any way of of of of quantifying this other than what I know about football right other than what I know about football I can I can look and say okay it's Daniel Jones 14 to 17 so I went on um a a a a website to look at to look at things in a place that I don't actually look for information right I went to PFF Pro Pro Football Focus because I just wanted to see I just wanted to see what like where D Daniel Jones is in in people's thought process right so Pro Football Focus has Daniel Jones ranked 30th I'm sorry not 30th because they they ranked all of the starting quarterbacks right or at least all of the potential starting quarterbacks So Daniel Jones is the beginning of what they're calling tier seven which is the holdovers right he's he's the 29th ranked quarterback the only one worse is the Broncos QB situation with STM and B knck the Viking situation with JJ McCarthy and Sam darnold and now Sam darnold because M McCarthy is out the Raiders with Aiden okono and Gardner menu they have him ranked 29th so I said wow that seems low let me go and see which quarterback like taking money out of it taking contract out of it just simply off Talent which quarterback I would take or I wouldn't take over Daniel Jones right so I go to number 28 will Levis I'm not taking will Levis over Daniel Jones I'll move him up to 28 27 is Jaden Daniels Not only would I take Jaden Daniels over um Daniel Jones but his own team would have taken Jaden Daniels over Daniel Jones they were trying to find a way to get up there to get a quarterback and it wasn't for the guy everybody thought they were trying to go get it was for Jadon Daniels um number 26 jacobe brassette Drake May in New England Patriots I think right now I would take I would take Daniel Jones so I gotta move Jaden Daniels up to 26 and I'll move Daniel Jones up to 27 Bryce young now while I think that Bryce young Has Talent right now based off of what I've seen in the NFL am I taking Bryce young over Daniel Jones if we're just talking about right now no contracts no nothing nah so I'm dropping Bryce young down I'm moving I'm moving up Jaden Daniels to 25 and I'm moving up Daniel Jones to 26 right 24 Anthony Richardson not taking either one of those well I might take Jaden Daniels over him but that's a different story so now we're we're we're there right 24 Richardson 25 Daniels 26 Jones Deshawn Watson no Russell Wilson no Derek Carr yes don't know why PFF has Daniel car Derek Carr ranked 21st Derek Carr is one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL so I'm dropping him down and so I'll M I'll move up Daniel Jones to 25 now because he was at 26 Baker Mayfield for as much as I do not like Baker Mayfield as a quarterback as a human being nothing he is better than Daniel Jones so I'm taking Baker Mayfield Caleb Williams yes Gino Smith absolutely he should have been a New York Giants quarterback a long time ago when they benched Eli Manning because Eli Manning was was horrible at that point and put Gino Smith in and they got so much backlash that they had to put they had to put Eli Manning back in they made it seem as if Gino Smith was bad and then he had to spend however many more years just trying to fight to get his starting spot back yes I'm taking that Gino Smith over Daniel Jones I'm taking Kyler Murray over Daniel Jones I'm taking Jared G over over um over Daniel Jones I'm taking Kurt Cousins over Daniel Jones I'm taking two and now we've gotten into 14 right because the whole point is 14 to 17 is where he's being paid right 14th the 17th is where he's being paid but Tua 14 Cur cousins 15 G 16 Kyler Murray 17 he's not better than any one of those guys which means he's certainly not better than Brock pie he's not better than Trevor Lawrence he's not better than Jordan love he's not better than CJ stad he's not better than Jaylen Herz or Aaron roders or matt Stafford or D Prescott or Justin Herbert or Josh Allen or Joe burrow or Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes and by the way shout out to PFF for putting Patrick Mahomes on his own tier that's how it should be done it should be Patrick Mahomes and then everybody else actually should be Patrick Mahomes it should be Lamar Jackson and then it should be everybody else right it should be the multiple time Super Bowl winner the multiple time regular season MVP and then everybody else but I digress so by Joe Shane's metrics he expected to be able to get Daniel Jones for what ends up being middle of the the road quarterback money right it's 32 quarterbacks 16 is kind of the line of demarcation of middle of the road he thought he was getting 14 to 17 quarterback but if we're looking at the quarterback landscape if Tyrod Taylor came back to this team and started fulltime for this team how many more wins is Dan or is Daniel Jones going to get you more wins than Tyrod Taylor would my answer no he's not going to get you more wins in fact Tyrod Taylor when healthy will find a way to win a game that Daniel Jones can't find a way to win it's not it's nothing against Daniel Jones it's just who he is at this point we know now can the ceiling of Daniel Jones be good enough to have the Giants in playoff contention yeah as long as the defense is good as long as the skill guys are making plays and and and going for touchdowns but we're not going to sit here and act as if we've seen Daniel Jones elevate a team I still contend in 2022 it was saquan Barkley that elevated the team not Daniel Jones when saquan Barkley went down midye and a missed the game I believe and then was was fighting through injuries for a few weeks that is when you saw the wins for the New York Giants precipitously Dro look at the first half of 2022 season in the second half of 2022 season when they needed Daniel Jones to to to elevate them to carry them he was unable to do so unless he was playing against the Minnesota vikins who might have the worst defense at I've ever seen that year the defense was so bad that they went out and got a guy who twoa just got two tug OFA just got finished airing out like they were married and he was beating him every single day like it was awful it was I'm not even going to get into it is the worst thing I've seen never seen anything like that in sports in my life I have undressed players for being bad most of them understand that when you get on them this is just about between the lines it's not personal and when they get all in their feelings and they start to like act all wild we just go a I I I still love you but this is football if I can't be super critical of You In This Moment how you ever going to survive when the when the balls are flying anyway I digressed I just had a ADHD moment but the idea that Joe Shane went into a contract negotiation and let an agent tell him oh yeah this isn't actually going to be a lot of money right anybody find that weird that he just allowed the agent to tell him yo like that this was the agent's selling point hey this is cheap compared to what it's going to cost Hey Joe Shane you had the option not to not to sign him at all you had the option to franchise tag him right which might have cost more money in the moment but would not have you to him for the next three years and I know that I know that um Patricia trainer and shout out to P to PT likes to say well it's not really 40 when you think about it I go back to if Joe Shane calls it 40 right because all during Hard Knocks all he kept saying was $40 million quarterback 40 million APR or apy excuse me if Joe Shane thinks it's a $40 million quarterback then who am I to argue with Joe Shane what business do I have arguing about the quarterback with the guy who's telling me hey this is what the quarterback is making like this is what the quarterback is worth so we're not going to do that we're not going to act as if he's not as expensive as he is like think about this think about this they just signed Dexter Lawrence and and Andrew and Andrew Thomas to long-term extensions last year only to turn around and restructure both deals this year that tells you that tells you that the money that Daniel Jones is taking up is getting in the way of them doing business but they've gotten it's not Daniel Jones fault none of this is on Daniel Jones this is on Joe Shane so every time people tell me or I see people say oh well you know we've got the right guy I believe in Joe Shane I I think he's a my my question always goes back to what has he done special as a GM for the Giants his best defensive his best defensive player Dexter Lawrence is not his guy his best offensive tackle his best offensive lineman and probably the best offensive player Andrew Thomas is not his guy they're the guy that everybody that's a Giants fan hate he let go two safeties who are both in top 100 safeties they're both at the top or near the top of their position he let go saquan Barkley right he let he he traded away Leonard Williams for a pick that turns into what huh not Leonard Williams certainly not Leonard Williams he let go James Bradberry who went on to have a pro I'm sorry an all pro season the next year help helped take the team to the Super Bowl is he struggling now yeah but guess what would have been over by now his contract I ask you what has Joe Shane done that we're supposed to be so like you know like like thrilled about he got the worst pass protector of the three in the well no I shouldn't say that he got the second worst pass protector of the three top tackles in the draft that year he had a chance at any one of them he wanted he chose the wor he chose the second worst of the three he got Kayon Tibido but why should we celebrate him doing what he's supposed to do with a top pick right that's not where you get the money that's not where you you make your bones it's in those in those second those day two picks right that you really make your bones we can't celebrate Malik neighbors he everybody wanted Malik neighbors many people thought he was the best wide receiver in the draft it wasn't just the Giants let's let's explore the second round in third round picks where he's Chosen and fourth round picks where he's taken defensive back after defensive back after defensive back and yet they're still looking for defensive backs they're still trying to figure it out in the defensive back field you take you take you take a a DNE Belton only to turn around and sign a Jason pin up only to turn around and draft the Tyler nubin you draft you draft a a a Cordell flot only to turn around only to turn around and draft the Deontay Banks only to turn around and draft the Drew Phillips and yet all three corner all three cornerback spots are not locked down the corner the corner and the nickel they're not locked down yet right that doesn't even mention Aaron Robinson that doesn't even mention the other DBS that they've taken you let Evan you let you let Evan Ingram walk for free you draft the tight end then you sign or you trade for a tight end then you draft another tight end three years in a row you've addressed the tight end position that would have been sold up with the dude that you let go I once again say what has Joe Shane done that we should all be like I going to blindly follow this man and now on the heels of what is is likely to be the most important season of his career as a GM we get that his Logic on giving Daniel Jones four years $160 million is because other quarterback were going to get more money and the and the deal was going to be less because other people got more hey most likely more than what they're worth am I supposed to swallow that and go yeah that tastes good is that what we're is that what we're going to allow somebody to get off without any push back we're going to allow him to get that off without saying wait a minute so you so so in your negotiations the reason that you gave him so much money at the time and made him a top 10 paid quarterback is because you knew that in three years or in excuse me in in in year three of that contract that the he would go from being a top 10 paid QB to a top 14 to 17 QB like really that's the value I could see if you said Hey in three years this top 10 um contract is going to be a top 25 contract right I could see if you said that that would make sense to me that would um that to me would say okay that like like I can see why he put so much on the front end because he knew that on the back end that would be that would be a thing right like for instance I I'll give you I'll give you I'll give you a for instance right um the top the top contracts excuse me going into um 2024 right the contracts um aav full ranks Joe burrow number one Jordan love number two Trevor Lawrence number three all of them are making 55 million um in 2024 Tua number four 53 Jared G number five 53 Justin Herbert 52 Lamar Jackson 52 Jaylen Herz 51 Kyler Murray 46 Deshawn Watson 46 Kurt Cousins 45 have you noticed anything I went 11 quarterbacks and did not name Patrick momes Pat Mahomes is going to make 45 million a year $5 million more than Daniel Jones at 40 that my friends is a value when he signed that what was it $500 million contract everybody said oh my gosh like that's going to the team if he signed if he signed a contract today how could you not justify paying him $75 million a year if you're paying Joe burrow 55 if you're paying Jordan love 55 for just getting to the playoffs you're paying Trevor Lawrence 55 for having Daniel Jones numbers if you're paying two or 53 to throw the ball to some of the fastest people in the history of football right if you're paying these guys that much how do you not justify paying like paying a guy like Patrick Mahomes $75 million so you have a $75 million quarterback for $45 million $5 million more than what you're paying Daniel Jones that my friends is value having Daniel Jones make $5 million less than what the best quarterback in the league arguably one of the arguably the best quarterback of all time now right arguably the best quarterback of all time the best quarterback of this generation for sure but the best quarterback in the league the tier one and then there's nobody else in the tier with him he makes 45 Daniel Jones makes 40 and you're telling me that that's of value because there's no middle class Hey Joe Shane there doesn't have to be a middle class just don't pay him either pay money to people who are going to take low money or don't pay them go to the draft get you a rookie and rinse watch repeat every year until you find the guy right the the the the the Carolina Panthers famously took Jimmy Carson as their quarterback of the future and then next year had the opportunity to draft Cam Newton and guess what they did they took cam you just keep drafting until you get it nobody's going to care how many times you drafted quarterback if you find the quarterback but when was the last time the Giants drafted a quarterback right they went and took um they went and took Tommy cutlets as a as a as a as a unrestricted free agent as a as a rookie free agent an undrafted free AG excuse me not unrestricted an undrafted free agent they took Tommy cutlets but when was the last time they drafted a quarterback how are you not even trying to find competition for this man they had a chance to get Spencer Rattler they had the chance to get B zuka Joe Milton they had a chance to get several other developmental quarterbacks that could have put pressure on Daniel Jones because they possess something that Daniel Jones does not possess and yet no draft picks wasted there no draft picks used where is a genius because that statement that's not genius statement that statement feels like you got bullied that statement feels like hey man do it now because it's gonna cost you more later no it's not I'm not signing him excuse me I just I just wonder what like what's the deal I don't understand it'll be interesting as we as we get through the week and we get ready for the last preseason game how many New York Giants will play in the final pre-season game do you want the New York Giants to play in the final preseason game we'll talk about all that and more next time ladies and gentlemen that is another episode of a giant issue I am coach Jean Clem thank you for joining me as always New York Giants on SI that's where you get all of your New York Giants news and information never miss anything just go to New York Giants on SI and make sure that you subscribe to the YouTube channel New York Giants on SI make sure that you go and And subscribe to the podcast leave a comment on Apple on Spotify we always appreciate it until next time I'm coach Jean Clemens and I have a giant issue [Music]