I want to bring into this discussion Jessica Leeds who testified during the trial she told jurors about how Trump groped her during a flight on a plane in the 1970s in 2018 Jessica Leeds came to our democracy Now Studio here in New York and described what happened when she sat next to Trump In First Class on the flight dinner was served and it was after dinner when truly all of a sudden Without A word without a bayou leave or about any kind of social conversation he started groping me what does that mean what did he do his hands were he was trying to kiss me he was hands were were on my breasts he was we were kind of wrestling and but I didn't say anything he didn't say anything so it was like this kind of Kabuki theater in in the silence um it I remember thinking why doesn't the guy across the aisle say something why doesn't the stewardess come back but it it and it seemed to go on forever but of course it didn't he put your his hand up yourself yes uh he he started putting his hand up my skirt and that's when I with effort managed to wiggle my way out grab my purse and I went to the back of the airplane and I sat there until the plane landed and was completely clear before because I didn't want to run into him that was Jessica Leeds speaking on Democracy Now in 2018 again she testified in aging Carol um the defamation and Battery trial she is joining us now from Asheville North Carolina Jessica Leeds thanks so much for rejoining us on Democracy Now can I first get your response to president Trump being found guilty of sexual assaults against Eugene Carroll I'm really pleased I'm pleased for Eugene I'm pleased for what it says I am sorry that the jury couldn't uh come up with a rape charge but they that's kind of understandable we baby steps here baby steps you know I was curious um uh she was able to file this suit because of this law that had opened up in New York that still has six months where people can sue someone who assaulted them years ago are you weighing um suing Donald Trump as well no I have kids and grandkids and great-grandkids I would not want to put that through that but what do you which is quite a testimonial to e Jane Carroll Jessica um what do you make of what e Jane Carroll did going through this again decades later and talk about what made you decide to testify there are dozens of women who've accused Donald Trump of sexual assault you are one of two women who testified in Eugene Carroll's trial well I think they wanted to use people who could show a pattern of behavior especially over the years um this is the what I got from from talking to the lawyers eating is a very strong creative woman and when she finally recognized the damage that had been done to her it had taken a while and for her to step up and do this takes a great deal of Courage I think I mentioned one time in an interview that that I thought that all of these women had basically the same story so for him to totally reject us and is just sort of ridiculous you know it's interesting what Donald Trump said he continually said now on social media and this video that he released he said he does not know this woman now interestingly when um Eugene Carol's lawyer in the deposition showed him a picture he kept saying she's not my type she's not my type showed him a picture and said can you identify who this is he identified the woman the lawyer was pointing to in a photograph standing next to him as his second wife Marla Maples but in fact it was e Gene Carroll but when he says I did not know her I don't know her in fact so many of these women including you Jessica Leeds he did not know when he attacked you is that correct that's correct and not only that at this point in his life he he has a selective memory and most of these situations most of this activity is just like second nature to him it it it doesn't mean anything it doesn't register at all which is horrifying because the psychological damage it does on people who are centrally abused is tremendous but for him ah he likes women he thinks he likes women he likes dominating women and he likes but the real gist of it right now is he can't see past the aging process so he looks at aging and she's a late 70s lady and he can't see what she looked like or or see the beauty in her face right now it's it's a it's stupid but that's part of our society's problems too and also this continually saying she's not my type my he's not my type to sexually abuse I mean as we all know rape and sexual abuse has everything to do with power and not to do with attraction just believes when we interviewed you I will always remembered you talking about the effect afterwards I mean you weren't even sitting in first class the flight attendants came to you sitting right uh uh in in the back and said you can sit up here and that's how you ended up sitting next to this man Donald Trump yes that's correct you said you never wore a skirt again on a flight that's right that's right well and and I have to say what was it two a week ago uh there was a report of a man putting his hand up the store to his skirt to this day and age I mean this continues Jessica leads do you hope that this will inspire other people to come forward not only accusing Donald Trump um but especially for example this law in New York though it doesn't have to be just this law but the adult survivors act that goes through the one-year look back where uh sexual assault Survivor can file a case this one-time period of time do you hope people who have been victims of sexual assault and rape will come forward now the wheels of the justice system move so slowly it's it's that's a tough call I I really don't know how useful that is to encourage people who have been sexually abused to take that route I would just wish that in our society we could address this issue talk about it do some research and help the survivors you know you might even look upon this as a form of we send men off to war and come back and they've got PTSD well how about women who've suffered sexual abuse getting some counseling and help and whatnot for that that's what I think Jessica I wanted to play for you Trump's attorney Joseph takapina standing on the steps of the courthouse yesterday after the verdict came down you know we're we're once it's gratified and I know some people in this Camp are very happy um that you know the rich thing was rejected but you know I'm not and uh I am happy about time certainly but I'm not happy that he was not liable for anything whatsoever um he wasn't fully committal on this saying well at least Donald Trump wasn't found guilty of rape so there were three choices in battery one was rape one was sexual assault and um uh the third was a sexual unwanted sexual touching your response to that point though interestingly Donald Trump hasn't made it very much clearly he understands the significance of this decision by a civil court coming down unanimous six men three women finding him guilty of sexual assault as he runs for president again but your response to that well the lawyer who is very aggressive and could be described as a bulldog is doing his best to represent Trump I hope he gets paid but and how much this is going to affect Trump's poor who who are unfortunately cult-like in their devotion I don't know how much this will this will help but if it helps aging and it brings the topic out for discussion and coverage okay I'm I'm satisfied and final question um the issue of this being a Civil Trial so in fact um the difference between being found guilty and being found liable uh yeah that that's what I mean about going to the justice system there there are people who are going to equate the fact that he wasn't convicted and they got confused over charges and and whether who's who and who was defending and who was Prosecuting it got it got pretty confusing so uh we need to go back to civics class but I I think this was a good outcome and I'm I'm very thankful and I'll just ask a last question you came out before president Trump won election in 2016. as did well over a dozen women was it 20 more than 20 women he was elected president now he has been found liable for sexually assaulting a woman in a department store dressing room he's running for president again your thoughts the truest thing he ever said was he could stand at corner Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and it would not lose any votes that is so true I just hope that the rest of the world can see through and and know that we need somebody much much better than this to uh to manage the country Jessica leads I want to thank you for being with us she is one of two witnesses who testified in E Gene Carroll's case about their own experience of Donald Trump sexually assaulting them she told jurors about how she sat down on a plane next to him in a flight in the 1970s and how he groped her Moira Donegan I also want to thank you opinion columnist for the guardian writer and Residence at the Clayman Institute for gender research at Stanford University will link to your pieces on this case