A Day as an End of Life Doula with Kathy Bates

welcome I'm here with Kathy Bates who is the compassionate Doula and also a founding member with Meen and Colleen and I here at winwin women uh a different kind of doula and um Kathy today I am so excited to talk about a day in adulla and I'm so grateful you agreed to do this especially given that it's son's birthday I didn't realize that so um I feel selfish to have you here so happy uh that you and I can have this conversation for the benefit of others who are interested in becoming an end of life Doula which you know everybody's who's doing this kind of work it's kind of pioneer work it's a new profession and you're probably the person that I know the best who's been doing it for the longest and um have been connecting with all kinds of people so I would just love to hear what brought you to this work to begin with thank you Kathleen um actually doing this work has been just a natural for me both personally and professionally for most of my life since my teens uh professionally since about 30 years working as a uh social worker in acute rehab in skilled nursing and it has always been a sacred honor for me to help guide and support and uh provide information and share with folks about end of life and different Pathways toward the end of life yeah and I think you know I I think you're like so many others where it feels like a really natural progression makes me think about many people like Marine working in hospice and a lot of people working in long-term care and facing death and many people feel drawn toward it because of having a a really important experience that feels meaningful in their own personal life yeah so personally what kinds of characteristics or qualities do you see people who um are drawn to this work what kinds of things come up that feel like oh yeah that makes sense that they want to be an end of life Doula often it has to do with uh people feeling really moved to do this kind of work and I'm always alert to the idea of when someone shares with me that they feel like it's a sacred honor it's like an aha because that's been my experience that it is a sacred honor uh this transition and this transition can be a few months to a few days to the last day uh when a person is in the midst of uh Act of dying but I'm very much aware that a many many more people are it's resonating with them and it's very exciting because we need uh individuals who feel so uh drawn towards and compassionate about this life work that we're doing I agree um and I think too I love what you just said about uh you know it could be long or short term that you're working with people uh and what do you find I know that in my experience uh people are either calling me at the last minute it or they're calling me in anticipation and curiosity you know both of those kind of what do you do and how does this work I've heard about this so um what kinds of situations are you finding yourself in when people call you what are maybe you can give us an example of a long-term and a short-term one very much a wide variety recently I received a phone call from a lady who has Park and and who's very much in vet which is voluntary stop eating and drinking and then she shared with me that uh she thought maybe in a year or two so I had the opportunity to meet with her a couple of weeks ago and um what I found myself doing is really U listening to her family Dynamics because from her perspective she feels like she doesn't have any familiar support at all and so we talked to quite bit about um what this looks like but one of the things that I notied with a lot of folks is that there's a lot of unfinished business with their family members so that's an example of a very long um process and she's going to think about it and we might work once a month together for several months you know it really is the individual's desire and my personal philosophy is that the person and their loved ones are the guide a short one could be sometimes uh I get called uh by a family um and a lot of times it's Word of Mouth that I receive a phone call and um I've had two short uh when I call short I think about the time of three to four days uh sometimes it can be a little bit longer and I'll share with you a little bit later about what my quote quote ideal person is yeah that is good to to know because it is a learning pathway and everybody's ideal person may look differently absolutely and that's where I go to uh what's going on individuals so when the family calls me uh one instant was uh in the midst of covid um where the uh assisted living facility actually gave me permission to come into this uh facility and provide um Hands-On assistance to the lady who was already unresponsive and um and in the in the process of getting ready to pass away um what was fascinating is well it's not fascinating but what I spent most of my time doing Kathleen was actually helping the two children uh prepare for their mother's um death and helping them about positioning helping them about okay this is a good time for um going ahead and giving your mom a little bit of morphine um I don't do those things but I can be watching when a person is needing that in order to have them not work so hard at end of life that's that's one example um did you want another no I think that that gives a really really good it's it's similar I mean I've even gotten a call where someone was saying you know we're in this process and we think we want some support and getting back within 45 minutes and the person has already died so uh I've had those calls as well so one of the things that I think is important about this work in it being pioneering and we already know about with hospice is people knowing about it and accessing the services and not being scared about accessing the services before getting to that point in hopes that the conversation about death and dying and planning can happen when we're not in the midst of dying however it can be really impactful for the family to go through that process to ensure the highest quality and dignity and connection possible with the dying person absolutely um a year ago October I received a call from a family member and uh happens to live the person happened to live in my community and one of the pleasures I I thought was the uh opportunity to work with three generations and a person's neighbors but that's the community that's the loving community that they were involved in so I actually started with a visit uh to a hospital and got to know uh the lady was unresponsive at the time but I got to know her through her granddaughter's eyes oh and it was marvelous gift and then helped a little bit um provide guidance and helping uh the person get home to her daughter's house where it was beautifully set up where um the daughter had placed their mom in front of the living room window looking out at nature and it was just lovely to have uh so you know dogs around different family members and friends coming in and out paying their respects and I think one of the most wondrous uh piece that I had with that part was asking the family asking the husband um would you like your um would you like Joanne to have an anointing and they said yes and so I did an anointing ritual and within 3 to 5 minutes uh this lady let go and transition to the end of her life and actually it was full of love beauty and Grace Kathleen oh no doubt no doubt so I I don't know if people will know what an anointing ritual looks like so how about if I just follow that because that would be a potential thing that someone would do as a doula or potentially having you know instructing a family member to do it if they would like so if you could just run us through that quickly that'd be great oh my goodness the one I I do happens to be one in uh I learn through the conscious Dy Institute which is where I receive certification and it's in essence a blessing using uh special oils essential oils um that blesses each part of the person's body and thanking them for all the work that they gave to the individual and uh it is to me a a ritual that's full of Grace and it is also um a wonderful opportunity for uh family and friends uh to witness this I mean we had a physician's assistant was present a certified nursing assistant that was family friends so it was a lovely way to model and to guide uh individuals about how end of life can be very rich if you yeah well when you bring up the medical professionals in particular it's something that we talk about all the time is moving death from a medical experience into a community experience so that medical professionals can see what that looks like and anybody who does home health and trying to bring health care and wellness into a home has that mindset all the way around so that's a beautiful way of demonstrating that transition yeah ah thanks for sharing that I love that absolutely so Kathy what do you find yourself doing as far as your time as a doula what do you feel like you spend the most time doing so far you know knowing that this is a pioneering profession right I mean I believe that it is a Continuum and it's based on what the individual needs are of the person who's in the process of getting ready uh to transition and pass away it also has to do with the needs of the loved ones and friends um I often will use a generic loved ones versus just family because friends can be the family of choice oh absolutely so often I spend a lot of time actually listening deeply listening um they use a term called reading the field or scanning but it is being acutely aware of where uh a person is um I don't like to work use the word functioning but um what they're experiencing in the moment and being sensitive to what um is going on and helping and listening and by listening I'm emotionally supporting uh the individual and their loved ones and it is a gentle guidance if you will a coaching but listening educating don't understand the end of life process um they're afraid they're fearful and it can be scary for some has that been your experience Kathleen yeah thank you I just want to let you know there's some muffling I'm not sure if there's something on your computer but there's a muffling sound that's coming through so I just want to let you know it's okay um yeah you know I what I love like about it is that death calls upon when you're in the presence of death and I just this last week was in the presence of a Dying process in the presence of a person who is dying it calls on all the senses and it and there's feels to me like there's not a choice but to be present and that doesn't feel like I can as a doula I can't call on those senses all the time it's not as easy for me to be present in the middle of my day let's say you know washing my face I I I think it's a practice it's a practice it is a dedication to being present in the moment but there is a calling of all senses and that it for some reason feels grounding and very important and I I appreciate the word sacred and for me it feels like when I'm there I go but of course this is what we would do we would listen we would be present we would be responsive we would be compassionate we would open up our heart we would be vulnerable we would be open to vulnerability we would be focused on Dignity on the quality on the connection and on love and I think that the training with being an end of life duer just helps support because we have to do a lot of self-care and we have to do a lot of recognition and we have to be able to reflect and and Learn and Grow uh while we embark on this really important work that's not really you know yet culturally acceptable so yeah I think I think it is and I think it's beautiful to think about all the ways in which we can be present uh for one another and be a deep deep listener and I love that you expand it out to friends family Partners whoever is most important and whoever can show up you know you may have family members I had a family member who couldn't show up for their own daughters death and dying process they stayed outside of the hospital room and what I learned was really humbling to me about my own judgment for that family member who stood outside and thinking and how gracious and loving and compassionate and understanding the rest of the family was knowing that that's all that person could do so I feel like we can always learn and grow and from that moment forward it's really helped me with that judgment piece so yeah it's great to just be reflecting back because I think as a profession just like all professions is we will deepen and grow from these stories and learning from one another because not all those situations will come up for all of us Kathy is there anything that um you wish you would have known about being an inula that you that you didn't know before jumping in and doing the trainings well the work in in and of itself has just been very natural for me but the part that I wish I had known a lot more about was two two parts one is about uh self-compassion and making room for my own feelings and experiences and acknowledging that that that that was okay just as it was and the second piece was understanding the business side of being an end of life doua uh sometimes people have an expectation that uh being an end of life Doula can be full-time work and then substitute for someone's um monthly income and that isn't always the case because it is an EB and flow of uh clientele if you will yeah I agree and for me one of the things that comes up is that I spend a lot of time doing is talking to people about what an end of life Doula does what services I have and the majority of what I is grief around anticipated loss or grief around loss after someone's died and so I've done a lot of the grief and bement work as well as coaching which again feels really natural for me is there anything surprising that you've done Kathy in your work that you're kind of surprised of like wow look this is what I'm doing or I never saw myself do this is a doua um surprise I'm not sure that there was a surprise per se ex I think probably be the surprise is uh knowing and learning um to allow myself to be very vulnerable to a person's that does affect me each end of life situation each death affects me and so one of the things that that um I have learned to do is actually make room I can't easily go from the deathbed and the family grieving to going home and getting ready for dinner and and attending to all the household needs so what I've learned is the best thing that I can do for myself that is self-care and compassion is I actually usually go to a beach or I'm close to Richmond Beach and Edmonds um and Sunset Boulevard and to be able to either walk out to the water or sit and be by the water I have this opportunity sort of to um just um feel uh the experience and it is a gift to be able to do that because you can't always do it yeah thank you for saying that because that goes back to that self compassion a huge self-awareness you know having the self-awareness of the impact of of having that separation from home life and uh the work that you do and again that seems like a real natural thing given the work that you were doing before I'm guessing you would have to have that separation at times too yeah absolutely and I think the other uh piece as we have been working uh um you know the last three years much more intently with end of life care as a doula um is how difficult and uh what an unknown territory it is for people about uh what happens in the active process of dying that is an comes from our society understanding our society being fobic about death and um realizing that is a um it's a community event it's a family event it's not a medical event and yeah I think the community event and having people feel like again if you bring it home home and you have family and friends and even if you can't bring someone home but you can bring the home to the family the family and the home to the person who's dying I think creating that environment so that uh it can be as loving and calm and connecting and highest quality as possible is really one of our hopes and I I do think that it's a process of education and support for people people instead of looking at the doctors or the the medical staff to direct it uh even though ironically most of us who are in The Gentle passage du Collective have that background is we're seeing that need be expanded for many reasons and it's it's probably because of a lot of uh the situation but Co certainly has presented a whole new uh set of circumstances for us to be thinking about and that and the need um when the system is really really overwhelmed indeed it is um we talk about um may I tell a story Kathleen oh I would love to hear a story um this was now A couple of years ago I had a uh woman who was a nurse in fact she was a neurology oncology nurse who was um actually two weeks younger than I and she uh had decided that she wanted to use V said and so um voluntary stopped eating and drinking and she was incredibly considerate of her daughter she had a daughter and two sons she had been living in an adult family home and her children were while they didn't really like the idea uh especially her sons didn't they completely supported their mom and she didn't go to a home but she did go to her daughter's home so she left an adult family home and her children rented an RV and placed the RV uh on the daughter's property so that they could be in close proximity and uh they had uh taken many things out of the RV so that they could have a hospital bed in the RV and um my my client decided that she wanted to stop eating specifically on August 18th because she didn't want to interfere uh with her daughter's going back to school in September and she was uh very consciously aware that if she stopped eating on the 18th that she most likely would be gone in three weeks which it was a little bit less than that but what it did um and she also had hospice support Evergreen hospice was an amazing and the children had 24 our care and this was right in the midst of uh the covid uh because it was 2020 and um I would have care conference with the children um and then towards the very end when I was coming every day the children and grandchildren were ever present um providing emotional support and it was a really a lovely gift to be able to um make an altar because I got the gift of of spending time with uh my female client and helping her with unfinished business her mother was alive she had um she had a rough relationship with her sister and she wanted to resolve some of that and she was able to do that and able to say goodbye to different family members and able to um pass away in peace um her sister that had such difficulty with her um actually wrote This Magnificent poem about her sister my client and how much she meant to her and it's these little gifts like that that are fabulous um because they are a lasting Legacy for other family members and because it was on the daughter's property and in uh her grandchildren could visit with her and a funny piece is the very son who didn't want to be present H at the moment of death was the one who had been taking they'd been taking turns uh sitting vigil with um their mom and he was the son that was reluctant to be there at the moment of death and yet he found that it ended up being a very uh beautiful loving end of life and such a gift such a gift oh I love that story thank you for sharing it and I love the adaptation of the RV with the hospital bed in yeah I think we've become really adaptable again because of covid finding all kinds of ways of being and I love that you shared that because I think many that'll resonate with a lot of people there's a huge concern about having people in a certain home and then having those memories so that is just fantastic and I do think that uh the reservations um come full swing if you create a safe and loving and inviting environment with the family like you do as an end of life duela that just speaks a lot to the work that you're doing Kathy that um you could see that full circle wow a good inspiring story for uh people who are interested in being end of life Duos and on that note we have two minutes left so I'm going to do Shameless promotion of signing up for uh challenging conversations on Facebook and let us know what you'd like us to talk about and Kathy and I are both part of the gentle passage Doula Collective and we are starting an end of life Doula program here in Seattle Washington and we will be starting in January 2023 and if you're interested in becoming an end of life Doula feel free to reach out to one or all of us or RSVP on our gentle passage dla Collective website and let us know you're interested and we'll be reaching out with the details we're looking at starting in January and we would love to hear from you and also we have death cafes which we talk about everything and anything end of life but for sure if you're feeling isolated or alone with grief or loss or death we would love to have and these are free and they're online and they're every uh uh month the second Friday of every month and you will find that RSVP same place that you'll find for signing up for our end of Life program at gentle passage doac collective.com so we hope to see you there and we will be back next week to talk more about a different kind of doula Kathy thank you so much and I'd love for you to tell everybody how they can reach out to you and contact you if they'd like to meet with you certainly I can be reached at Kathy compassion aa.com look forward to anybody Kathleen thanks for the opportunity to let me share about our passion oh anytime you're a wealth of knowledge and just uh just you emulate end of life duing we all look to you for that so thank thank you for being such a wealth of resources knowledge and so inviting to talk about the end of life work with I appreciate you being here and happy birthday to your son thanks so much Kathleen have a wonderful evening you too