Intro Episode, Why Don Draper's Den, McDonald's Menu Song Started it all

in this podcast we discussed branding and how it touches so many parts of our lives from culture to sports music to business technology and then some welcome to episode one of Don Draper's Den I'm Chris and I'm Ernie as marketing insiders we offer our perspectives our insights into the fascinating world of myth making and Legend creation so pour a glass and let's jump in [Music] for those of you who have never seen this which would include everybody I thought we'd start off with why it is we're doing this Ernie's one of the best in the business and I think it's fair to say we're trying to give everybody an idea of what you and other folks in the business find so interesting about marketing so much so we decided to put a podcast together about it why not right right why not so if you had to sum it up mhm what would be something You' tell people maybe they don't know about marketing or maybe the motivation behind marketing and then we'll dive into why we have this podcast going in the first place sure I guess for me I've always been fascinated with marketing ever since I was a child I literally remember the first time I was fascinated by it do you remember um you might you might or might not remember this but I think it was like in the 80s McDonald's used to have have this campaign where they put a uh a little record into the newspaper Sunday newspaper okay and I remember walking down the steps e e uh 60s 70s 80s and it's kind of like how far we've come but also what have you lost since those days when those advertising Giants those Mad Men were creating great fun as great promotions and I just thought hey let's do a podcast about it just kind of talk about it this would be a great time to allow others to sit in the den and and just talk marketing that's awesome that's awesome yeah there's that's interesting you say okay so I think everybody can relate to Nostalgia but I don't necessarily think I know I don't think of that as being something that was a marketing thing at all right so in other words it seems like it's organic oh McDonald's just is doing this now right right GE and everybody like they're all just doing what they do no no it was the inside of some marketing person yeah that created this campaign yeah right I think that maybe I'm I'm appreciating how much of an art there is to it yeah and I I often times imagine like what would have been like to be in those that that conference room talking about this that particular campaign like what who was it that said I have an idea right you know what if we made a menu song and what if we put it on a record and weird and get everybody like that's such a and the process that like that it took to do that or better yet okay let's fast forward a little oh yeah yeah yeah could you imagine being a flying wall in that room and hearing that Ad Agency say I have an idea what if we have this slogan so easy a caveman could do it and there's really a caveman in there so you know it sound if you You're basically right now you're pitching me the idea right right and I would say like I'm not some genius I'm not and I would say dude that's the dumbest idea what do you mean a caveman what right nobody's going to buy anything from that you'll kill the company but lo and behold right so it takes risk it takes guts you know for them even the executives of Geico to be a to say yeah let's let's do it that sounds great like what went in to that decision to agree to that to me that's fascinating and that's and it kind of reminded me of the Madmen series you know and where Don Draper and his cohorts will be in his off office and they're brainstorming they're thinking of ideas for an ad and it's a closed room session where nobody can can be in on that on that uh conversation but everybody on the outside is kind of wondering what are they talking about what's the mystery how do they actually come up with these ideas and then lo and behold there's this a bunch of guys drinking drinking SC B like talk a trash and and then something all of a sudden Dawns on them oh I got a great idea for this ad let's do this right and I guess that's kind of why I wanted to do this is like you know let's have let's emulate Don Draper's Den kind of like give The Insider scoop of marketing and branding and and give some insight on on that process and what goes on in that hopefully our listeners will will hear a little bit about marketing and branding certainly I'm we're hoping that they're entertained most most of all right right hopefully um yeah hence the name hence the name John Draper so all right so we have it sounds like a noble thing we're trying to do right take the veil off which I always find fascinating if you lift the Veil off of things most the time you're going to find that there's some genuine say good intention behind it yeah right and I think that like a lot of things certainly uh in the world of finance and plenty of other spots it seems like the world is maybe a Touch Too cynical ER in politics most certainly and a number of other places it's like ah they're just in it for the money just in it for this just in it for that um but those other items aside certainly in the world of marketing it's like well they just want you to buy something maybe maybe it's true sure but what about the art of it right isn't it something what if it's a good product right it's not fair for that business that really has something cool they want to share with the world but then they don't have the way to communicate that right right they're too busy making the widgets yep so I I like the idea that marketing branding this whole business whole the industry is a way to you know give hope hopefully the right people that platform that could change the world yeah ABS that's that's super cool and I never saw it that way yeah right um plus it's kind of funny to imagine they just have Bullets by the way there's bullets yeah what are these they're not act bullets no they're not actual bullets you could actually uh get these online they're bullets that uh you could freeze and use as ice cubes actual bullets did I say actual I say no they're anyways anyways actual bullets people okay we're living in the edge right Mad Men obviously here absolutely uh so all right so we have uh what seems to be a noble a noble effort we're trying to do the right thing uh the element here's something I didn't think of before is the element of risk right so it's fascinating to me to consider like I guess you you picted your big big business and and corporations um you know maybe these companies we can all think of uh that have uh uh Legacy standards at this point in terms of their business they can afford to take the risk mhm they can take a hit yeah um but what about those midlevel MH small places yep they can't really afford that particular risk yeah right yeah um providing them a voice getting them from Ground Zero mhm to the next level whatever that might be for them yeah um tell me a bit of of of what the difference is there right to say okay big Corporation versus no this is where you got to start right right depending on the size of the companies and their budgets right is going to impact the size of the campaigns and perhaps even the risks that you take and so a lot of what we're going to be talking about in upcoming episodes is not just for like big business and what are they doing but really what about the small and mediumsized businesses what can we do in terms of marketing and branding to help get our uh voice out there to promote our product or promote our services and and so yeah there's a lot of different tactics that even though you might not have a McDonald siiz budget you can still get the word out and there's a lot of so we'll be going over uh tactics we'll be going over tools that you could be able to utilize different um strategies in order to implement in order to be able to attract and pull uh people towards your brand towards your product or services and so and and it's possible that's what's exciting about today is that you don't have to have that large budget in order to be able to get your word the word out about your services there are uh tools out there there are digital tools out there right um and it's exciting and so there's a there's so many things that we could be able to talk about in this uh in this podcast and that we will touch on because we could talk everything from AI everything from social media um online advertising to um yeah I mean you know we could talk about how Josh uh doesn't really enjoy bones in his in his chicken wings yeah yep we can explore one of our creators here just so you know who we're talking about right um bone in or or or non uh bone in every time America dud I agree I'm totally with you I don't I don't even understand people who eat uh chicken let's let's be if you're a grown man if you pay your taxes right if you're taking care of your family and you go get the the Boneless you just eating chicken nuggets you're just eating chicken nuggets I agree that's one thing I know you and I could agree on so any of you if you're listening and you like um the what do you call it the the boness the boneless chicken wings you're just eating chicken nuggets Chien I'm sure they're tasy again again that's marketing hey let's let's call it boneless chicken that is right wow there it is full circle all right so marketing that is marketing right but if but it wouldn't it be funny if instead of like what if there's so there's dino nuggets maybe we're giving away maybe somebody's going to steal our idea but there's dino nuggets for the kids right what kind of nuggets would we have for the dads of the world I don't know I don't know what that you can think of some leave it in the comments I guess but yeah anyways so all right so small business small business can use our help uh B big business uh but you know when do they need help I guess they can like Rebrand themselves reintroduce themselves so those are cool ideas um it'd be cool maybe look at those kinds of things in the future how um you know businesses just kind of change maybe even their trajectory and it starts with a big marketing campaign yeah right so that's kind of cool to see that um another thing to cover too is you know the kind of tools that are available so when you when I think of back in the day um I think of like well how do you get the word out there and and and brand and market and all this um Billboards uh radio TV spots um ads and newspapers I don't know you flyer the town you live in but other than that you know what do you do and then all that takes like a ton of money yeah that's and if you're a small pizza shop relatively speaking you can't blow tens of thousands of dollars on a on a billboard or something like this yep right so um the dynamic of of social social media is huge I would imagine that Chang the game in ways we don't even understand fully now right um so when you have a team of people um what kind of people are we talking about that like what are the jobs right because there's website design right but what what other things are in the mix for like marketing overall that maybe people don't know about oh yeah I mean marketing overall I mean as far as internal staff like that you would need in order to build your department so typically marketing would require everything from the copywriters who write copy who who uh create all the words and the brand narratives of your company to the designers who take those words and then visualize it into an ad or a social media post right then you'll you might nowadays you're going to probably need to have access to videographers because Tik Tok Instagram these instructional videos on YouTube to reals right all these things are now needed and required uh for the Next Generation especially they're they're growing up on videos so you're going to need a videographer you're going to need um your brand managers to oversee the brand make sure that everything is tight you're going to need uh those marketing directors you're going to need people who could work with the media work with PR I mean there's so many people people involved behind the scenes of any particular campaign you name it there's hundreds of people that are involved if not just a handful I mean there's there's a lot of people I think a lot of them would be interested in in being in Don Draper's Den actually and kind of listening in and and kind of hopefully we get to hear on the comments some of your experiences or some of your stories uh regarding it but uh yeah yeah yeah that's fascinating yeah it's never it's never just the guy or the girl right that's the spearhead of of a massive team I don't know if that's really different anywhere right any any business you're going to see that okay so so we'll go through some of those five W house just like English class High School people I'm not that smart so the who all right so we talk about the team the what the what yeah what is marketing you're okay so you're talking about storytelling mhm branding kind of like okay we kind of know what that is I know what a brand is yep but how how do you build one yep is a real that's probably a college course right there oh absolutely yeah there's there's a lot involved in in building a brand right it's not just when we talk about branding people think of logos right they think of a name of a brand or something but they don't realize all that's packed in it and we're I want to cover that I think this be a good place to actually talk about unpack that a little bit but um you know what is involved what are the words that involved what's the feeling what's the experience that you want people to have what's your perception of a of a brand all those things I think are important right to talk about and then you know when you're talking about marketing again you're talking about tactics your strategies you're talking about budgets you're talking about you know um kpis there's a lot of involved with with market right there's a lot um what what's a kpi bro a key uh key performance indicators what how are you how are you measuring right like your effectiveness of your marketing campaigns right there's a lot involved so yeah who who do I want to be watching this it's it's all those people involved in marketing because you can all relate you know this is something or maybe you're just a a business owner and you you're a startup business owner and you're you're having to wear every single hat you're making the widgets and you're having to sell and Market the widgets right well I want them you're invite them into the den too to talk about marketing and and and discuss these things I can't that that is huge yeah that ISU when you're making the widget mhm that is something where more than a more than a few businesses small business owners man they get caught up there and and having to wear this particular hat mhm man that's a lot of idea that's just a lot of bandwidth for your brain when you're trying to just make the widgets it's hard enough yeah um I and I think there's a certain value that is not really understood mhm in what is done in the marketing World um and I I see that um I see it as being a it's one of those things like there's a lot of things in finance I guess you can see this too um where it's either really undervalued or really overvalued you think I can't afford that sort of a thing or you know whatever that's only for rich people Corporation blah blah or um you know yeah get it done it's free you know it's it's cheap it it's somewhere in the middle yeah right it depends what you want to do yeah um you know remember there was this uh old commercial uh on TV and it was I believe it was for uh Dunkin Donuts it was for Dunkin Donuts where you see the the chef of the donuts and he'd walk and it'll be middle of the morning he'll wake up time to make the donuts exactly dude time to make the donuts and then the next day he'll wake up time to make the donuts right that is that's what a lot of startup businesses in particular or small businesses that's what the owners are like they're the ones who wake up in the morning they're like it's time to make the donuts right but then somehow I'm also supposed to market the donuts I'm supposed to like tell people about the donuts I'm supposed to do what with this ad or right you know that's so much there's so much involved and so hopefully this could be a time time too where those type of business owners can hopefully after a long day could be able to listen to to this podcast have a drink and just kind of maybe you know just take it a little bit easy and just take it a little easy and just kind of hear and talk about marketing and be a part of the discussion yeah so yeah yeah yeah that's a it's a pretty righteous uh thing we're trying to do people okay I hope I hope the Lord's watching we're trying to do the right thing um all right so we got the uh we got the what right we're going to address that over time all right um The Who okay who kind of helps all that sort of thing um the when the when is kind of a weird one right if you when do you start marketing when does that when do you consider that yeah right is that something you do from the beginning yeah when how long does it take to do yeah right like the time frames involved and and if you're an established company you're going to reintroduce yourself hey man that might be a long project you got to do a lot of research right um so that that's kind of the that's part of that work value right it's like hey man you're not asking a small thing here y right um I'd be kind of I'd be kind of curious to see what we can offer I think that's a big insight for for small business owners if if you're the one watching yeah how long is it going to take to get that stuff done right it depends on the size of the scope of the business yeah I think that's definitely uh the case uh I think when it comes to the when I mean there's a lot of conversations about that but we all know that when it comes to marketing branding it's it starts with that concept the moment you know this concept you're already trying to sell it to yourself oh that's a cool idea man you're already trying to sell it to yourself and then you're already trying to sell it to others who you're your closest confidance hey I got this idea right I got this great marketing idea or company idea what do you think about this boom already you're talking marketing now it's not necessarily uh a billboard ad yeah but you're already thinking about your pitch right so we'll talk more about that but yeah definitely like how do you start formulating all those uh Concepts so that you could start to appeal to the Right audience right that kind of you know what's funny is when you say it like that when you're like you know uh I always picture that Meme of the guy from uh it's always sunny Philadelphia and there's like all the red lines and he's pointing all frantic to it you know so I think it's like okay in the beginning you're like all right I got this crazy idea M and you like pitch it to everybody you know or whatever and you manifest it and all of the sudden you're making your Widgets or whatever and then but it's funny how from before we were saying then you get this crazy idea that I'm going to use a lizard to sell insurance or whatever it is right and so it's almost kind of like you've got this extreme business kind of like Logic on the one side this scientific data driven whatever on one side of it but the other side the the Dr Jacko Mr H is no it's just this crazy idea that I think I have Stones enough to think that this weird idea I have is going to work yeah yeah and uh another word I want to I want to hit hit again is risk mhm right interesting how much risk is involved it'd be cool to think about when it doesn't work yeah right we don't want to BU bum anybody out but um when it doesn't work when you look at like failed marketing campaigns or whatever you know it'd be interesting I guess to study well what happened yeah right you know what what went sideways well when sideways which means that you have to know what you're evaluating you actually have to have your keep performance indicators or kpis you got to know you got to be able to track this stuff so you know what's working what's not working right yeah absolutely all right kpi is t-shirt bro # kpi um all right so we got the who the how how how uh what why why and then when on the on the back side why yeah why so why this podcast or why yeah just why why marketing well I think as we go through it right the why in the podcast is is mostly to spread I think there's some nostalgia in what we're talking about because as you're bringing it up like that old McDonald's commercial that old Dunkin Donald I'm like oh my god dude you know my dad doesn't it Fascinate You like when I bring up those those company names immediate right imagery like like I I remember I could almost remember the feeling of like watching these commercials or opening that ad and be like oh I want to listen to this right and that was that was in the 80s you know when I saw some of those right or like the where's the beef you I know that was in my mom like like Mama and Dad's uh small little TV I'm watching this and I'm like I was captivated by this stuff and to me that's what's that's the the the beauty of all that and the the Mystique around advertising and marketing I want to bring that back I want to and and that's one of one of the reason why for this podcast too is I want to bring that feeling back and like and and kind of talk about like it's more than just putting up a a a fun 7-second reel on Instagram there's there's there's effort and strategy that people put into those things and it's still there sometimes we we lose sight of the Mystique and the the magic around marketing and advertising because it seems so easy even a a high schooler on Tik Tok can do it do it yeah but believe it or not those even those influencers they put a lot of thought into their brand they put a lot of thought into those videos that's why they're so good that's why they they know who they they are and they're appealing to so many people I want to talk about that I want people the viewers to be able to experience like yeah there was a lot of Mystique and Magic around marketing then but there is today too yeah you know yeah yeah that's fascinating yeah a little bit more of appreciation for the for the art of it um I uh yeah when I think when I think of the that D Dunkin' donuts and make the donuts and all that stuff my parents owned a doughnut shop did they really Mickey's dut land so my UNC my uncle passed um uncle Mickey he uh he set up shop somewhere in Jersey where my parents are from and everything and um and so you know my dad was the doughnut man yeah yeah what it was right okay and so to see to have that kind of in my head did you make the donuts with them did you I dude let me tell you about something right so I uh a couple stories from dut shop but I had the brilliant idea marketer bro I had the brilliant idea I was like yo I love dinosaurs cuz like I'm a kid of the 80s dude so like I'm all about dinosaurs so I cut a uh like a glaze donut right so I took that dough and uh I made a dinosaur out of it uh right covered in some glaze gave it some eyeballs or something like this I was a little I mean I couldn't have been six yeah right and uh and then somebody bought it no way at least that's what my mom told me you know what I mean like I you know she ate it she's like I don't know you know she she's not around I could I wish I could ask her but but um yeah I remember I remember that and I can remember that like it felt as a little kid I remember kind of like how can I put it maybe it was like this maybe it was like the vibe of like Santa Claus is like out there right and like that's he's the man right but then like he's got his uh Mall Santas that are like on the payroll you know what I mean right and so like just the same kind of vibe I'm like all right Dunkin' Donuts man so he's the dude yeah right he makes all the Dunkin Donuts he doesn't just work at one spot he's definitely not not an actor right he's definitely not no no no so that mustache man is making millions of donuts bro like wow how does he do it he must be mad magic it's him and Santa and Easter Bunny and they're just cranking it out he was a picture of who what a dut maker looks like yeah that's how you right but then I was like okay cool so then if that's Santa right so then my dad is like the mall Santa right so he's fighting the good fight you know what I mean but it was like some pride I'm like cool cool my dad's like that dut guy all right hilarious but yeah it's funny God I haven't thought about that and right okay wait hold on one second what was your favorite dut that's a tough one that's a tough one so I would say uh that there was a apple apple filling right so like a glazed dut like a jelly donut it was Apple um and then there was like cinnamon sugar mhm uh and I would say to this day it's that or maybe blueberry cake blueberry you know that's a good look what about yourself usually plain I've always liked it's a plain glazed doughnut but if I wanted to go extreme it would be um the chocolate covered donuts with the custard inside I'm trying to remember is that the Boston too damn extreme dude if I want to live in The Edge yeah if I want to live I'll get chocolate is that is that I'm trying to remember is that uh the Boston cream pie or is that is the Boston cream with that white with that white cream or is it I don't know I don't really like the cream fil I like the the fruit flavored you know donut connoisseur are you apparently not it was the ' 80s man I was like they sold it in 1988 I don't know um so yeah I'm kind of we should go get some donuts um or an old F last bit on the donuts I promise I promise oldfashioned mhm but with like a Dunkin Donuts like a coffee mhm and like you know I used to work at uh paintball ref I was a paintball referee in Jersey um shout out to Ray gong MH and um and yeah you get oldfashioned and you get that just I don't to say anything about the coffee it's just m you know what it is but it gets you through the day that Duncan coffee and you just you know and back then I used to smoke too yeah oh man with a cigarette that's oh it's the best come on bro it's the best come on and then get shot in the neck by some you know some Out of Towners anyways so marketing so it looks like we've got quite a bit to discuss by way of how do you do the thing of marketing why do you do why do we but also why did they right so an interesting thing to me is like well then from a historical type perspective not that this is some documentary series or anything but I'd be interested to know well like who who are they right who are the legends of the game yeah right what did they do is there is did they create things that are in use today where they created those kind of tools you know um I would be curious to know the kind of depth of that yeah right um and I I would bet a lot of people have no no clue yeah right especially those small business owners um so I I know I'd like to cover that eventually um what do you think about marketing or what do you know what have you seen that's you know one of the deep not dark secrets but just something maybe people aren't at all aware of right you you you'd be when you say it to people they're shocked um is there anything that kind of comes to mind as it relates to marketing as it relates to marketing and on Endor branding yeah yeah I mean I think that uh there's a lot of issues currently that's happening I think behind the scenes when it comes to marketing okay as it relates to the digital world right because now okay in the digital technology you know there's a lot of information that's gathered about people right true in order to so in order so that we could be able to be more targeted in our messaging in you know in in attracting them we have there's marketers now have a lot more access than we ever had in terms of uh information about the people we're targeting right and so is there there's privacy issues there there could be ethic issues there um for example even on on like how you design certain things online and how it impacts a viewer and we know that you could you could um more there's more opportunities because we have all this information that we could be able to uh manipulate kind of manipulate and Co so there's there's a dark side to marketing that isn't often talked about um where now big companies uh are establishing policies and protocols to make sure that they don't step across that line in terms of how they're gathering information right cuz think about everything that you're posting on Facebook everything you're posting on or searching for on Google that's going into some M major data datab bank right that can be right that could be used and it could be used for good it could used for bad right just like just like any tool could be used for good or used for bad right so there is a dark side that could happen in marketing I don't you know and and and and that's often being you know uh discussed and trying to be hammered maybe not as much as it should but um yeah there is definitely that huh even today you know that's heavy man yeah yeah that is dark all right so we had the 5w how high school English uh class of 99 Jackson New Jersey shout out so we have the who the how the why the where the what the when MH um motivation so you you've been doing this for a hot minute mhm right um what keeps you doing it what why aren't you burned out it's really the people I mean it's relationship one of the things I've learned about uh Marketing in particular that pleasantly surprised you know of course I I I let in talking about this the the early years of experiencing advertising and so a big part of what I came into marketing has been was was about promotion and advertisements and all the the glitz the glamour type thing but what I learned the most is it's about relationships it's about people at the end of the day marketing and branding is about the people it's about understanding people how to communicate to the people how to attract people uh how to show empathy to people sometimes how to energize people around your brand right it ends up being very much about people and for me if you know me you know I I'm just it's all about people it's all about people um PE I'm a people person uh you know and and if if I could surround myself around people understanding and learning about people then I'm in I'm in my happy place basically so yeah and that's what what I've been pleasantly surprised about this industry is that it's yes you want to make things sound good yes you want to make things look good yes you want to attract people in order to buy your products so that you can make uh Revenue right increase Revenue but at the end of the day if you don't understand the people you're targeting and and really actually care for them and solve their problems yeah then you're in the wrong business I could see yeah yeah yeah it seems almost too obvious now that like somebody who's uh an empathizer right as many personality tests or whatever would would tell you I can see how that obviously translates into the into the marketing world right if you can see that other person's perspective mhm make them you know like uh like Dude said what's his name Don Miller right Donald Miller um you know where they're the hero man like you know we're just helping them out yep but um it's for me you know you took the indogram tester haven't you did so for me like I what I'm three wi four and so I'm I'm very much of a feelings nurtur type of a person but has a vision you know and has a Direction where he wants to go but uh but as a result that that really helps me as a nurturer helps me to try understand the people we're trying to communicate to and feel for them and say okay what is it let me put myself in their shoes and why would they want to buy this product or why would they want to uh you know buy the service right and and and that's why I really enjoy it you're working with people all right and then also what just keeps me going is when I help clients understand like what their brand is about and how they're helping people it's fascinating seeing the light bulbs in their minds go off and they get this renewed sense of excitement about what they're doing and it just builds this momentum which just feeds into the campaigns and promotions we're doing and it's and to me that's exciting like yes they get it that's the part I like man yeah yeah yeah kind of think about like let's say you don't know what your identity is just even as a don't but the more I teach you about who you are you would get excited right you like yeah wow you're right I am that and this is who I am and it just compels you to want to to get up and and just motivate you to go right the same thing can happen when you help when I help clients understand their brand identity yeah and and understand how their brand and their service or product impacts a people that they're serving and that and and once they get that man they're just energized because often they tend to be you know especially if they've been doing whatever they're doing for years right they could lose a little bit of motivation you know it's all about the numbers how much money Revenue do we get once you speak into their brand again and and kind of almost like watering that that wilted plant and you just put a little water in there and nurture it and then they see what the and reminded of what their brands really about man the the energy that they put into it it's exciting and that's what compels me to say I love doing what I do yeah you know to be able to turn those light bulbs on in people's minds about their own brand and then and then see the growth internally in their culture externally amongst their target audience you know and then obviously helping them grow their business that's that that feeling is it's like it's for me it's like hitting that that golf ball on the green you know for the first time time it's like yes you know it's just such a great feeling solid that solid like in Jiu-Jitsu is a good submission you get somebody just blacking out in front of you talk about dark dude bro I go go go submission holes it's you know it'll get me a tear out of my poked eye yeah yeah thanks why you know what everybody has everybody has a thing that's for sure man but yeah that okay so here's that's that's interesting that's interesting because I I've done aot lot of things in my life and whether I knew it or not I was always selling something MH right whether it was selling myself or whatever it might have been um you know to Employers in interviews or or a a product or whatever it was the interesting thing is that as much as that is kind of fun I just like the the conversation I really enjoyed the conversation with people right um but I love the the teaching moments and I've taught guitar since I was in high school at this point um and I've taught music and and I Any teacher out there is going to tell you like man they just look for those light bulb BS yeah I just want the kid to light up and like oh I got it mhm oh my God it was it was that easy it was right in front of you the whole time and there's something I I hadn't really put that together I guess uh that we share that element yeah right there's a light bulb moment although although the understanding might be slightly different right I'm trying to just get you to play a a g chord so you can play you know Cheeseburger in Paradise or whatever it is or whatever that song is um but when these people have this aha moment in their business that's awesome and yeah you can you can provide what used to be this inert object sitting there m unsure which direction am I even am I even a soccer ball maybe I'm just a but then all of the sudden you remind him no dude no you have these weird you know hexagonal shapes right little tiles on you and they're like I do they're like yeah dude you got all these logos on you man and there's like these South American guys that kick you around every day because they love it what are you I'm a soccer ball go get it dude y you you then you help them realize their purpose right and their mission and their values and why right all that's all part of branding and once you do that and they're like ah this is I love this this is this is I I needed to hear this once that light bulb goes off like that then it's like yes okay that's what I'm that's why I'm doing this by the way what what ended up being your inogram number um little call back there I like that so um I was it was 50% right so 50% one uh-huh which makes me like a big dick or I was like 50% 50% s that's why you're like Jonathan sorry Jonathan yeah sorry bro uh not sorry um no but it was 50% s so then I was like oh no I don't be one I I don't know I don't know what I want to be and but I looked at the seven and then I looked at the uh eight Wing I think it was and uh I was like oh that yeah that felt very right that makes a lot of sense and I can't remember what it is off the top of my head but um you know leave comment um call me a liar go ahead um but yeah going going through that exercise it had been a while and when you brought it up uh I immediately was like oh yeah I'm a four but you know I hadn't really sat down to really take it in a very long time right um and yeah you probably I mean how long has it been since you at least 15 to 20 years so I mean you've grown into yourself right grown into your own oh my God yeah if I was you know that kid back then that younger man I don't know yeah I don't know what the hell I was doing so uh yeah it was interesting it's no different than Company brands sometimes company brands over the years they mature into something more beautiful or something different right because they start to learn about themselves a little bit more and who they're really servicing and why right it's no different than that a personal level the more you start to learn about yourself and find your identity right right those it it changes the outcome of those personality tests all right so that's great that's great I think we we got a good summarization of things we're looking to offer we cover a lot of ground in this we're trying to build a community we're going to have a lot of episodes upcoming a lot of different topics we're hoping that you like you share you subscribe do all those things that you do um maybe you can give us a sense of what it is we can expect as we go forward into this this project of ours you know I think that over the course of the next several episodes things are going to evolve quite a bit but I think the main things are going to be assistant you know we're going to be talking about today's current issues when it comes to marketing and advertising explore what Innovative new tools or techniques are involved regarding um the topics uh in the future we're going to talk about uh hopefully reminisce about you know the marketing grates of yester year and talk about some of their creative uh ideas and and genius moments and hopefully maybe maybe try to apply some of their insights to today's world of marketing and so I hope that this is a place where for those of you who are interested in the topic of marketing who are marketing directors part of a marketing department maybe you're in graphic design or you're in sales and you just want to feel like you belong you know you're invited to Don Draper Den here talk with uh Chris and myself and and engage with us on social media or any of our platforms uh because we're listening and we want to hear your insights maybe share some of your victories or failures when it comes to marketing or maybe bring up some top topics that that you want us to be able to to discuss on this podcast we would happily do that so I think it's going to continue to evolve but what's cool is that this is an Open Door you know for for all of you who who want to be who who want to gain some or give some insight regarding the world of marketing amen yeah yeah that's well said okay fantastic from the iconic era of advertising to the digital age I'm Chris and I'm Ernie keep it legendary