Jonathan Gannon's speech, the depth chart, team captains and Kyler Murray nonsense

r [Music] [Applause] r this is the rise up SE red podcast all about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL featuring Insider and Outsider perspectives enjoy the best hour of cardinals talk on the web now here are your hosts Jess root and Seth Cox [Music] hello Ora cardal fans and welcome to the latest edition of the rise up SE podcast I'm your host Jess root from cards.com the USA Today Today USA Today NFL wies side covering the Arizona Cardinals uh recording on a Tuesday night with Seth Cox from Revenge ofthe birds.com Arizona the S Nation Arizona Cardinal site and also one of the hosts of the original draft breakdown podcast Seth we're finally here at week one um this normal way so in how we're doing shows Tuesday will be our our basically our game review and so you'll get that Wednesday morning I I think ideally we could do it earlier but you know life and Sundays are hard because you know football games we don't want to get on the microphone that quickly and Monday Seth got his podcast and I've got stuff going on so but Seth are you ready are you ready for actual football that counts and more subterfuge and Jonathan Ganon telling us things that don't really tell us anything yeah it's going to be uh fun I guess guess I don't I don't know if that's the right word but it's going to be it's going to be interesting for the first couple weeks while we wait to see what are I mean we're gonna talk about it obviously but is this to you just Ganon having fun with a guy that was basically I mean was a division rival for the last two years while he was in Philly and just I mean cuz let's be honest there's no like you said last week There's No Advantage they're they're preparing for Joshua dos the same like this is just Ganon having some fun right like that's that's what I'm kind of taking from this whole thing you know he was on they had Ganon on burns and gambo today on Tuesday and he got that from serani now I I will say this Ganon if there's one thing we know he is ultra competitive and so if there's any Competitive Edge he's going to take advantage of it in this case is he's going to force them to do a little extra not that but let's be honest nobody's doing extra work to prepare for dos overtune because they're really kind of the same guy they are they are the same guy they have I mean t has two fewer starts as an NFL rookie than dobs has in Seven Seasons well and that's that's what I was goingon to say right now like we just I mean the one thing you might get is that the unknown of of of tune like he he's he uses his athleticism just to touch more but I mean outside that you're not gonna yeah like you said you're not GNA see anything that you're gonna be like oh we got I mean this isn't I mean ton we talked about this before the draft because ton was one of the guys I really liked right like he is one of the most athletic quarterbacks but he's one of the most athletic like normal athlete quarterbacks not Tyler right yeah Lamar Jackson type athlete like he's not even like he's he's not even Josh Allen level athlete he's maybe like a Kenny picket type of athlete you know so yeah it's just it's funny to see that thinking that there's going to be any type of any type of uh Advantage drawn from that but I I I truly just think it's it's I'm sure it is gamesmanship and I honestly Kon hates telling us things he hates revealing anything like he he also said the team knows like they know in the building what the plan is now unless the plan changes like they know which means it's dobs I mean we've heard this from enough people that's why they traded for him that's been that's been suggested the whole time dos is going to be the starter as much as is that sort of I mean I don't know whatever I am very whatever on Josh dubs because you know with the little bit of Hope the little bit of hope that I had about Colt McCoy I don't have that much hope in Josh dobs that's the stupid thing no and and that's I mean it's not stupid it's just realistic I mean we've seen what he is he's gonna manage the game he's gonna miss throws he's not gonna you know make plays but I mean the iteration of what what Colt had become let's be honest was probably worse at this point guess I guess I guess I I just felt I just felt that that even even a washed up McCoy might be a better playmaker on the dobs but I what I Envision honestly what I Envision with DOs is not last year Gino Smith it was 2021 coming into when he was starting for Russell Wilson Gino Smith which was highly uninspiring right and that's probably accurate but I didn't send you this for prep and I just forgot like what was your take because this has been fun on the interet what was your take on Jonathan Ganon on flight plan because the internet has really had some fun with this and I'll I'll I'll admit the only thing I took away from that whole speech that he said that it wasn't too unin whatever the only only thing that I'm surprised that the Cardinals put out there is the is is because Ganon has promoted football violence from the beginning and I know that can be a little on the touch but he wants players to play violent and to say that he wants effing Killers even though the way he says it like he's he's not super he's high energy but he doesn't he's not like the big inspirational speaker so more of an energy what was your take on on on how Ganon was portrayed in Flight Plan I didn't understand the preview clip that they sent out because I don't think it put him not that it put him in a bad light but it just didn't put him in a way that made him seem like a strong leader at the time whereas the actual speech itself I think was better does that make sense like yeah like and and that's the thing is like you go to the Cardinals YouTube page which is the only place flight plan is available right and it's not like the um let me take a look here real quick the yeah Flight Plan has 39,000 views 39,000 views which is similar to the amount of downloads that this podcast gets like this is not that's not something that so right okay that that's actually a really good point is that that particular clip on Twitter SLX has made the rounds when the actual the actual substance of the speech is much different it is true it is true I I do I will say that I I do see like when they mention Kendall Roy I see that I totally believe it cuz Jan Ganon gives off confident Kendall Roy Vibes not the doubting himself Kendall Roy Vibes but definitely the like when he's like I'm can effan do this that is the Kendall Roy that I see Jonathan Ganon as most of the time I I can totally see that when people make that comparison well and so to finish that thought the Adam schfer tweet just the Adam schfer tweet has eight million views so like that's the thing is like none of that is none of the actual substance is getting out there and so it just it was an odd choice in in a in a bevy of odd choices I mean remember when Ganon the first video like the introduction and everybody thought that well not just that but then the Ganon of uh running to meet Kyler they're like oh that's just so staged it's so ridiculous and it's like you this is the team's media like what are we doing like you can you can dictate how this works like you don't have to you don't have to post those things and it just yeah and and so I just I wish that was more cognizant like get a group of fans together and be like hey what do you think of this and before you uh before you post things but outside of that I mean like like I said I thought the actual substance of what happened wasn't bad I thought it was actually you know I think what he's wanting and what he's trying to you know get out there to people makes a lot of sense oh totally and and the part like the people take because the when the camera pans out to the players they're just kind they you know they have the kind of the glazed eye I don't know if I've ever seen a team meeting like a clip of any team meeting where players were fired up because they're all focused on learning like even when on Hard Knocks when Robert Salah talks about like on when Robert Sal on one of the most recent on the one I think it was the first episode of Hard Knocks this this season and during the preseason and he talks about like the Ravens and or the crows and and Eagles and it sounded just as hokey and the players weren't like ra yeah let's be eagles they were taking notes just like the Cardinals players they were just writing taking notes uh when Robert solid was trying to make the points that he wanted the Jets to be Eagles and not to you know die from the pecking of the crows he just you know soar higher and higher higher until the crows just die but I know and that's just it I mean it's just coaches are inherently uh cheesy at times because you're trying to motivate people that a lot of people don't have what's the word like and this isn't calling him out this is nothing like I'm not saying I'm hearing anything like this is literally just an example a guy like DJ Humphries he doesn't need to be motivated he's either going to do it and work hard or he's not and and so if he if he doesn't buy into whatever is being sold which he seems like he is right now right and but like there's then there's nothing that can be done about it and so yeah like those guys might blow him off is probably not the right term but you know they might just be like ah whatever it's coach you know and and and so that's the thing is like you have to remember that the motivation sometimes isn't for the to toal it's or the whole but it's for some of those guys because you know a guy like Buddha Baker he's self motivated he doesn't he doesn't need to be motivated but a guy like Kyler Kyler doesn't need motivation but this is this is for like well you know he talks about great good players great players he's trying to create some self-reflection like DJ it was when DJ came in or like even like zaven Collins they could come in oh this is how it's going to be all right then let's do that it like it wasn't like oh what the hell when zav got called out for eating breakfast in the team meeting he wasn't like what he's like oh that's how this is know this is the norm okay it's just establishing kind of the norm so yeah it's not for the team leaders but it's probably for for the guys that are battling for a roster spot so what can you do differently um what do I want for I want killers I want football killers on the field and if you are that you are going to be my guy yeah and it's just you know he's trying to find he's trying to get construe what he's looking for um I mean I can talk about it all day as a coach like tonight was September 5th like it was our first like practice of the season for our youth team and like you know I've got I've got 30 kids on the team and so half of them they either don't want to be there or they don't want to be at practice you know so it's like no matter what I say or do is not going to necessarily motivate them and they you know so finding ways to motivate and to reach people is done in a different way and one of the most effective ways like for me is to be able to be like hey this guy is going to play in front of you unless you work harder and so you know that's basically what ganon's doing is like hey this is what I'm looking for like are you willing to sacrifice are you willing to you know show me that you're going to do that um or or are you going to just simply uh you know collect a check and get out of here that's that's what the question becomes and and I thought it was is impressive that he's you know he's telling the guys what he wants and so we'll see how that goes so let's let's move for that what we actually wanted to talk about on on this edition of the show so the Cardinals yeah after their 53 man roster was set they've made some roster moves got grabbed a whole bunch of guys off waivers got the first depth charts we've got some captains and we've got some other nonsense that's come going back around the media with Kyler Murray with we thought we had avoided for long enough but no no it doesn't so let's start let's go ahead and start now um with waiver claims and the depth chart I figured the Cardinals would be active on the waiver claims I didn't think they were going to be this active um over the course of three days they claimed six players four offensive linemen uh a tight end and a safety the safety of completely completely predictable Kayon Wallace but I don't you know I think the biggest thing for me was with Dennis Daly and John Gaines getting hurt doesn't it basically tell you that they only trusted like they had a they had an eight man they had eight linemen they trusted now they only have six and they're just like I don't we're we're we're going to figure something out isn't doesn't that feel kind of feel like cuz they got three guys who can like three guys who can play center or are going to or are are centers or are projected to be centers and that's kind of feels like they're just let's see what we can get because they didn't love the other guys on the roster obviously but their starting lineup plus Kelvin beum I think that's all that they trust in terms of their offensive lineman right now yeah and that makes it really difficult right that when you only trust six guys and and inherently in the NFL injuries occur so how is that going to play out cu they don't have John gains at all this season he's done and then obviously Dennis Daly's out for the first four weeks at least um so you know they're gonna have to get comfortable with one or two of these guys or just hope that you know you need or you get a guy that steps up into the role and and kind of fills those shoes but it's just disappointing that you know Maris Hayes or Luc Smith didn't grab that opportunity when they had it but it's not unexpected for fifth and sixth round guys to not do so so it's l that the riding was on the wall and Hayes making the roster initially and he's back on the practice squad now so I mean they they like him clearly but they're not like oh he's definitely our backup guard which to bring a guy off the streets that you've never played I guess he's technically off the streets he was playing but I'm very intrigued by a couple of them um because Tristan cologne you know that's not a bad guy to have Off the Bench he's he started a couple of games he's basically yell a FR right in terms of his career so far um and then he's been in the league for a little bit um the guy that seems to be the most intriguing just from from what Kyle Madson told me about him and what also um Justin melow over for the draft network is that the kid that they got out of Hawaii um that they picked up from the 49ers El Manning is super intriguing because he was a left tackle all through college he started what 40 games or 60 games or something like that like he played like five years at Hawaii yeah but um the interview that that Melo had with him suggests that he saw himself like he knew he was going to be interior guy but he played left tackle cuz you know obviously he was their best blind he was their best blocker that was the best lineman they had on Hawaii so he played left tackle he saw he sees himself playing interior and he honestly could see himself playing Center and and so I know that that he's one of those late round kind of you know draft Nick favorites but he didn't find a place on the roster with the 49ers and the The Hope was to get him on the practice squad and convert him to guard but and right now he's listed as I what is it the um backup left guard I think it is to yeah they list or they dropped their actual depth chart today do you think that's and I know we're going to talk about it but do you think that's like outside of the obvious starters do you think that's I never know what to do with that um I'm guessing so since they have to have eight guys active my guess is that they will have beum cologne and either Manning or Keith Ismail as the eighth lineman Carter O'Donnell who theyve listed to the backup left tackle I'm guessing he's their developmental guy-ish kind of guy but that that cologne's going to be active on game days as the backup center they'll need a backup guard and so it's it's just a question whether that will be Manning or or Ismail in my opinion and so it's just a matter of who do they like more out of those two and then you know you look at it and you've got just an interesting you know depth chart in general I mean some some we knew the offensive line nothing kind of surprising there but Z's list is the number one tight end um but they haven't definitively say said if he's playing this week true that's true I I'm guessing he will but he might be eased in there so we might see a lot more McBride which which leads us to the the Elijah Higgins thing the fact that they because they clearly like Blake whiteart um when they guaranteed the amount of money that they did comeing out of Wake Forest I wonder where Higgins was on their draft board because that dude's kind of intriguing um do you think there's a possib do you think there's a possibility that that they just what did I mean where did they end up where did he end up going Miami no I know I meant what round sixth round six round so did looking at it did they not pick after that or before that let me see I'm going through it right now should we I guess we probably should have you know well no they took so Elijah Higgins 197 so before that they picked kitrell Clark who's starting so I mean and then and then they you know took Dante Stills because Higgins didn't get to him so I mean uh I don't think that's a bad thing um you know that's kind of and the fact that five teams time to tried to claim him that tells you something that that there's something intriguing about him as a number four tight end I guess isn't he a touch he's slightly undersized for tight end Wright just like more of the h-back build but yeah he's definitely more agback at 63 235 but he's in incredibly athletic yeah super athlete 4540 35 introvert 106 broad 70 cone uh three con which is what the problem is you know he's not necessarily a uh uh a guy that's going to move laterally extremely well but he's a guy that can get vertical extremely well if that makes sense yeah and then obviously with the body type uh you know it just makes him that much more of a dangerous Target and so you know it's always interesting when they when they make these calls uh because like you said whiteart was a little bit bigger uh a little less athletic so they probably just had a higher grade on Higgins coming out and then had the opportunity to grab him right yeah and that's which means is also they so they they have they kept all their draft picks although um gains is out for the season season [Music] and then so yeah the gains is out and who else is in their draft pick that oh and Garrett Williams is on NFI so they've got seven on the roster but then they added a couple of rookies on top of that um with you know six players I guess they claimed seven players off um yeah they they claimed Starling Thomas the the cornerback as well I forgot to for so they claimed seven players um off of waivers and yeah and so Manning is a rookie an undrafted rookie Thomas is an undrafted rookie and and so yeah that's and D Marcado and then they added D marado and then well they had so yeah they've got again after after they had three undrafted rookies on the roster on the 53 initially now they've got another three they've got three again on the roster plus an additional rookie in Higgins that was a draft pick as well so they've got they've got quite the quite the group of players there uh the Thomas the Thomas pick for me what is the most intriguing of the group because why I mean they already had five quarterbacks on the roster I'm like who is what is the unless what's the plan because what Jeff risten told me uh about Thomas is that super handsy in coverage super handsy but pretty like looked like he was going to have a he was going to carve out a spot on the 53 for Detroit for a special teams play and I wonder if that's why they got him or I mean cuz they've already got because that makes three rookie cornerbacks that they have on their team if you include Williams you've got Williams youve got Kell Clark you now you've got Thomas and I'm guessing they want him for special teams but when you've already got a guy like Chris Boyd on your roster for special teams for me it kind of felt like it was an odd selection unless and and I guess I guess we'll find this out on Wednesday if one of those cornerbacks um pops up on the injury report I guess I just thought of that like well maybe it's not a four-week injury but like a a week or two injury yeah and that that could make sense I mean where you just have a guy that's potentially hurting and so you just need to add somebody that yeah I I like that thought the Kon Wallace that was the most I that was the most predictable waiver claim having played in Philly and the fact that he is you know special teams guy uh would know the system and then they kept and then on top of that they kept two safeties on on the practice squad Andre sasher formerly of the Eagles as well and then javante mfet as well and so they have guys they'll call up I wonder what the I wonder what the oh I wonder if um today's transaction wire has the the protections on it um like they did last year I have to take a look have to take a look um I forgot about that was usually on Tuesdays last year is the the practice squad protections and so yeah now about the depth chart is there anything that surprises you out out of that CU to me it was super predictable um the whole Josh dobs or Clayton tune vibe come on stop that but that Paris Johnson is you starting right tackle knew that that in fact it is Michael Wilson listed as a starting receiver and kro Clark starting cornerback I will say I was a little surprised by that you thought Pascal would be would be that I not necessarily that he would be the starter I just I didn't know what to expect and then that happened and yeah it's just you know it it shouldn't surprise anybody I mean let alone surprise me but like the way they had talked about Pascal all all Camp it it's not like he had done anything wrong no no and I think this more says about the the off season that Wilson had yeah no you're right about that 100% it's just it was just an interesting decision um to go that route but you know like you said krell's or not Katrell Michael Wilson's worked really hard he's put up a a really impressive off seon all all around and you know he's a guy that we talked about like this is one of those classic guys that basically needed the right spot in after college uh and to stay healthy cross he does yeah another I mean that's the thing is it's not a soft tissue injury after injury it's been like it's been bones broken bones which which also to me is also kind of a wait a minute yeah well it would if it was like one bone and maybe that's it maybe you're worried like hey does he have brittle bones but yeah I mean it's just it's just an interesting thing but yeah so we'll see how this all plays out I think it's G to be a you know you know spoiler alert the uh we do uh five questions with the managers of of the other SP Nation site as I'm sure you guys do with yours fact and so we sent over ours already for this week and they've responded and you know one of the things that we have to ask about is is you know or you know who do you have winning the game right like a a gambling question if you will because this is all done by draft Kings not a sponsor on this podcast but you know in but if they wanted to be right exactly uh but and so you know that was just one of the questions and and the the Commander's guy without hesitation 31 to7 I mean they don't nobody respects the Cardinals like they're not like oh it's Sam how's first game as a starter and and you know they it's Eric beny's first game is like the had play caller like let's see how no they're like the card Cardinals are a joke uh it's not going to and and so that's the thing is like the expectations are so low that getting over them is going to be easy like and we're not even talking about the Cardinals winning I mean something we might no we're talking about a a a demolishing and this coming from a team that is projected to score the fewest points in the NFL if the if the commander score 31 points and end up being a team that averages 18 points a game woof this defense although I will say I'm I'm I'm not bullish but I am cautiously optimistic about the schematic soundness and discipline of the starting unit can they maintain it throughout the game if if the offense doesn't do anything I don't think so but if the offense def doesn't give the ball away I think the defense could be not terrible yeah and so you know you just look at the roster you look at the depth chart you look at the moves made you know everybody looks at it as a tank but nobody really has talked to the guys and told them that hey this is a tank job so we'll see how it works out or doesn't you know and what ends up happening and all of this how much playing time do you think Dennis C will actually get will he be like will he start and then have the fewest snaps among the outside linebackers or or do you think gck will actually play a significant amount that's the one thing and and who will actually because it has dii behind him but will we see a lot of Cameron Thomas and Zin Collins as opposed to Collins and gek even though we saw decent we saw a decent amount of Collins and dark Gard in the preseason yeah and what I mean what is the expectation on rotations that's that's kind of what I'm really intrigued by is how they're going to work the rotations in because you know the like we kind of semi joked about that starting stuff is just it can be just window dressing right it's just names on a paper so I remember AQ Shipley got credit for a start once when he was in the game as a fullback right on the first play of the game he gave him a start so yeah so and and they tend to do that right like they especially with veterans you know they'll be like hey uh well I'll take the example two years ago with Isaiah Simmons when his playing time was still kind of limited they always made sure he was in the staric lineup I think that was a that was a hey hey Steve Kim he's starting and that he wouldn't be in there we're talking two years ago like when before last year when he was expected to do a whole lot more but that that well even even his rookie or the very first game he started the first game and then you know had bad leverage on the what was that the the 75y yard touchdown play from that running back that I can't remember the name of for 49ers that went to Miami and gets hurt all the time but yeah but that sort of thing but that even said isn't it normally the case that when you look at the defense as like for rotation purposes and not injury it's really only the front five right cuz unless you don't unless you have specifically an inside backer that you want to come in for coverage you usually you usually are only rotating defensive line the defensive interior guys once you know swap out the nose tackle for for a slot corner but the guys like at inside backer cornerback and safety those guys typically don't come off the field uh other than for specific package changes while Edge guys and interior Defenders will rotate because of you know fatigue yeah and you know we look at it and you kind of just look at snaps played in general and and the Eagles are a tough one because Kaiser came in I want to say oh halfway through the season is and became like the full-time guy but like you know you look at it like Marcus EPS their strong safety so Buddha Baker was going to play most of the snaps um James Bradberry Darius Slay Corners played most of the snaps so you assume Marco Wilson and and uh I guess Krell that's what it looks like that's what it looks like because you know Antonio Hamilton was listed as the first team guy all the preseason now Clark is the guy in top and though I am I'm betting I'm betting not actually betting but I would imagine that Hamilton will be their nickel guy based on the fact that they only have three safeties on the roster So the plan is Hamilton plays the slot JT and Budd to stay back and then and then TJ Edwards played you know 95% of the snap so that'll be Kaiser white in this defense and so you look at it you know Buddha the corners Kaiser and then you look at the rest of it and it kind of makes sense I mean we again we talked about Kaiser and that defense that's not going to happen unless uh it's Woods right unless Woods struggles or you know gets injured um but Hassan Reck obviously likely a better pass rusher than anything the Cardinals have right he still played less than 75% of the snaps so is that the expectation and obviously he's playing a different role and and the in most 43s right you have one of your Rush one of your three backers usually come off for nickel right as opposed to the three four where you take the nose tackle that way had you both end up still with the four-man front right and so you look at it their their defensive ends basically split time so Josh wet and Brandon Graham basically split time they they played combined about 95% of the snaps and then their defensive tackles in hardgrave and Cox again the Cardinals don't have that let's just be they they played about 65% of the snap so you again you look at it and you're saying okay like those all are going to get reduced down but that that all makes sense I mean you just kind of look at it and you say okay well while he's not playing the Hassan role he'll probably play the Hassan snaps right 75% of the snaps you'll probably see Kaiser and the Edwards roll 95% of the snaps and then and then it's just a lot of Health staying act you know available where you talk about the safeties and corners and go and the other line um you know the other starting linebacker and go from there it'll be interesting how those those so like is G deck and aul and or gek and Thomas are they gonna play The Sweat Graham like 5050 role like that's what's going to be interesting to me is like how how those are all going to look like how much oari is gonna play um where does demate does Dei play more is he's more special teams um yeah a lot of that's the super what do you think maybe do you think of the Interior guys do you think Collier probably plays the most yeah I would so I'm kind of looking through their stuff kind just at like so Marlin to AP poloo 2 and and Jordan Davis and I'm not again I'm not comparing lucky Fu to either of these guys but they played 20% of the snaps each so think thinking that maybe Ley plays 40% of the snaps because like lynval Joseph came in late for them last year he only played um he only played eight games and in those eight games he played 38% of the snap so he played a lot of so that so that makes sense and he was their nose tackle so I'm guessing we're we're going to see Lecky right around the 40% Mark whereas like you said uh Cox and hardgrave that's going to be the CER and and um lead better role so those guys were more in the 65% range and I and I would bet lead better would play even less than they do yeah definitely definitely yeah so so yeah you'll probably see Coler in that 60 to 70% range so 65% and then Ley right around 4 40% and then I would guess lead better would probably see 35 to 40% that sounds sounds reasonable definitely so yeah so like that'll be that's just what I'm interested in because I mean you look at it again you have to factor in a lot of things when did they come on the team so you know uh lynval Joseph and uh and Dominic and Sue and you know in the scheme of the season they only played like 177% of the snaps but in their time they were playing about 40% of the snaps and again I'm not comparing Jonathan lead better to inamin Su but that rooll will probably be about 40% of the snap so you're gonna get 40% from from lead better 40% from uh Ley and then you know you get that 65% from CER ideally and then you know you flush it out from there with guys getting about 20% each after that um so that'll just be kind of how it all plays out I'm guessing uh to and we'll see I mean again we'll we'll see how it goes but yeah I mean outside of outside of really just the the inside backers the safeties and the corners I'm really interested to see what that that upfront rotation because that's that's only six guys so the other Five Guys what is that rotation look like and who are the who are the again not comparing abilities but who are the Hassan reic who are and and the and the uh you know Javon Hargrave of this defense in terms of reps com to next on the rise up here podcast best of cardinal talk on the web let's move ahead and talk about the captains the Cardinals have six new captains some of them aren't so new that's coming next on Rise Upsy red we're back on the rise of seed podcast Cardinal stalk and talking about captains uh the named their captains and I find this interesting because I not being in the locker room I I I'm going to ask you this Ganon named captains how often in the pros do you think that a coach names them as opposed to the players voting because I know that in years past at least some of them I think under arens that players voted for captains um as opposed to being selected and Ganon selected these C these captains uh Kyler Murray DJ Humphrey James Connor Buddha Baker Kaiser white Dennis gek uh basically three guys on offense all all three completely you would expect to be the captains Kyler DJ Connor defensively Buddha Kaiser white makes sense even though he's newcomer here Gard Gard Baker and Humphreys and Kyler have been captains for straight years now and Connor is a captain for the second year rope but um maybe I am am didn't pay enough attention to this but how common is it do you think that a coach selects them as opposed to players voting for them you know that's a fair question that's something I should have looked up before we started this whole thing because it's it's interesting to see how that works out um see how that works out and see the way Ganon operate uh and you know like you said there wasn't any shock right Buddha and Kaiser right I mean that was obvious from jump and and then on offense as much as it pains people you know they Kyler is one of the guys so we'll see how that all kind of works out um and and what the plans are you know if it works but a lot I think most teams vote for it if I if I remember right that that would make sense to me um but like doesn't it feel like Ganon is gon have coached a college team the things he does would make a lot of sense right and I'm going to also this I'm going to keep drawing Jim Harbaugh comparisons I really see a lot of Jim Harbaugh in Ganon only less like seemingly seemingly more player friendly like yeah less less abrasive or I guess I can say it just less of an let's be honest yeah that's that's kind of the that's kind of the thing but yeah um I love the fact that we keep seeing this now Kyler has been the captain for four straight years now which when we get to the next segment seems kind of stupid if Kyler's not going to play why would he be S selected a captain and and I think we need to continue to to talk about the fact that this new coaching staff that the Ganon is PR in effusively uh Kyler as a teammate Kyler being present uh Kyler being active in the in the in team meetings and offensive meetings to show that either either his lack of such was more related to the toxic situation around him that he just didn't want to invest um or that Nar was simply false yeah and it seems like a lot of this came from the previous regime and not necessarily cliff and I've been told and I I've said it on this show that one of the bigger issues that started to rear its head I guess is the best way to put it was the fact that and and we've talked about it a million times Cliff was very much a hey we're all adults like do do you do your thing like you do your job and and you know I'm not going to worry about you and and I'm not GNA worry about them or and things like that and right wrong or other you know everybody's got their opinion um Kyler began to have trouble with what was going on in terms of the uh the front office and again we can agree disagree does it doesn't matter but whether it was Isaiah Simmons um whether it was Rond Del Moore like there were there were decisions that Kyler probably shouldn't have stuck his nose in I mean I I'll say that but also that he's in hindsight been proven that he was probably right as well and so you know that Dynamic and that relationship when Cliff is like I'm not getting involved basically right like uh that's you know I'm I'm just here to coach and and then you have the the issues it just it's GNA sour somebody and we've seen that there seems to be a singular person who's working their way through the media to try and change um the uh what's the word I'm looking for like what people think of him whereas the other guy has been more behind closed doors working to change the perception of him and so you know those are just yeah it's just it's just different uh it's unfortunate that that's how it ended but we moved on but you know one of those guys in that situation is still working or going through the media telling a story and getting what he believes is his version of the truth or he doesn't believe but he what he believes is his version of the truth out there while Kyler's version is different and that's how it that's how it always goes right like there's always two versions and probably the truth is usually somewhere in the middle yeah totally totally but the captains all make sense um I I wouldn't I I wouldn't have picked honestly I don't think I would have gone through and picked anyone else differently than they had I was going to ask were you I mean I'm surprise is not the right word but were you surprised that like like Paris didn't get the nod no no um like a rookie lineman I think that would be ex exeptionally that would be an exceptional case to have a rookie lineman get named a captain especially in a room with look look at the veterans they have they've got will hernandz they got Elijah Wilkinson they got DJ Humphries and DJ has been a captain he's been basically the voice of the offensive line for well heck and you even got Kelvin beum um as well I I I think Paris Johnson as a captain would have been a huge surprise to me okay I was just curious what your thought process was on it I I I I think in this case in terms of selecting captains I think Ganon wants he doesn't need Paris to be a leader he needs Paris to be a kick a right tackle um working his tail off and that would be and and to earn some more like that yeah H I guess that would make sense and I kind of like it um I kind of like that cuz genning kind of said he's like he has a plan he he there is a reason why he picked captains he explained those reasons and part of it was for those particular players to do particular things and so I love how seemingly intention personally I have a personal philosophy of intentional living and and ganon's intentional approach to coaching I really like yeah that's one of the things we've talked about is just and you know I can again just talking and and trying to learn you know one of the things you do as as a coach and you do it as a teacher and I do it you know in my day job is you try to get better I if you're good at what you do let's say it this way if you're good at what you do you continually try to get better and evolve right and that's one of the things that I think Ganon does a lot is that he wants to be a great coach he desires that and so he puts himself in a position to to teach and take the responsibility on and if it doesn't work he he at least knows that he put in the effort and the time and the energy to get them there yeah yeah it's it's I like it coming to next on the rise of ser podcast speci our Cardinal's talk on the web let's talk about a last seg M which is couple of things one it's another rumor about Kyler Murray not playing and what is going on with the stuff that's coming out about Steve Kim coming up next in Rise of C red we're back on the rise of C podcast Mr caral talk in the web it I will say I don't want to give it too much Credence but because it kind of caught fire guys like Pat McAfee were talking about it Mike Florio was talking about it here comes again that the car Cal would sit Kyler Murray for the entire season to avoid you know those injury injury yeah and I'm just like why why would the message be that that to me it just seems absurd across the board why would the message be all summer Kyler Murray working his tail off to get back on the field Kyler push like this is something Kyler's been pushing the team has been pushing he's named a freaking captain and then the notion that they're just going to sit in like if things are bad they're like no we're going to do that we we're we're going to move off of it this is not the sound of a team that's moving off of Kyler Murray are they in a position where they could certainly certainly they could um but I'm gonna I'm gonna say it's going to be really they could but it's going to be hard because if Kyler's good why would you trade him like and and I'm going to keep saying this as great as Caleb Williams looked guess what you know who looked just as good in that exact same offense was Kyler Murray in 2018 so like what you're hoping Caleb Williams could be is what Kyler Murray is right and why would you move off of the original unless he unless he unless he's declined as a result of injury but if he's declined because of injury he's going to be impossible to trade as well which the Cardinals leave leave in a bad so they they they have really no other choice than have Kyler Murray perform and they need Kyler Murray to play so that they can have that Faith moving forward and if he's healthy and they sit him guess what everything that's been good on the off season with his new coaching staff will have been wiped out completely Kyler will be a very very upset player and will want out yeah and that's and again you've talked about it too perceptions big creating the right atmosphere for this for this um organization is important and you know if they don't think Kyler can play or lead anymore then I'm fine with moving on that's that's something that they have to do for the organization to try to get better right but if they're just going oh this is this is you know the cheaper route to go and we just need to go then then I feel like you're doing this organization a disservice because like you said the unknown and let's be honest the history of drafting quarterbacks for this team it's not like you've ever done it better than Kyler like the the only good quarterbacks they've had have been veterans on their last I mean outside of Neil LX right like and that's and that was still St Louis right right and he yes that was Neil LX was fantastic I never got to watch his fantasticness they drafted Jake plumber Chim roseen Bob that didn't work out they drafted Stony case he was nothing they they brought in backup after retread after unproven guy Chris Chandler Tom Tupa like J shider Steve burline everyone that like basically any quarterback that was on the cusp of being a St Chris Chandler or they brought in the old guys Boomer asias and Dave this is ridiculous then they drafted Jake plumber and Jake plumber was one of the best young quarterbacks ever SE and look at his numbers his numbers are terrible terrible he was terrible statistically for the Cardinals uh and I loved him one of my favorite players of all time mind you Jake plumber incredible yeah and and I and then when he went on to to Denver and to to be very very competent but then after that you've got you've got Josh maau you got retreads like Sean King Matt ler showed promise and then fell off you everything CT Warner comes in um you know dererk Anderson was no good they traded for Kevin Cobb John Skelton flashes for a little bit um they they rck Carson Palmer he's great um they draft other guys they don't Josh Rosen yeah Kyler Kyler's like and if we look at statistically Kyler's already like a top four like a top three or four quarterback in this franchise's history and that is so bad but it's also so good like why do you want to move from that and you have him and he's already outside the top five in money um Allen signed his deal right did Josh Allen sign his new deal um I'm pretty sure yes double checking but yeah so Allan yeah yes his even Daniel Jones for crying out loud right well and that's the thing you look at the numbers and you look at the names like you're paying Daniel Jones 40 million so if you're gonna pay Daniel Jones 40 million paying Kyler 45 so again unless you're going to say like Hey we're g to go spend that here's my thing to the people that that want to get rid of Kyler from the financial aspect and I'm gonna say this politely when has this team ever intelligently spent money now I know it's a different I know it's a different regime okay so I I get that so we haven't seen this regime but when has being flushed with cash ever worked out in this franchise's favor and I'm not saying that just give Kyler all the money and not worry about it what I'm saying is this isn't something that we see often we don't see the Cardinals in a position where they have you know the Young quarterback and and and so what they had with with Kyler and it not working if you do that again with Caleb Williams next year the clock starts over and you have three or I guess four years no three years because that's when Kyler signed his right after three years so the clock starts over again immediately in three years are we assuming that this team is going to be ready to contend immediately next year or with the with a rookie so so you get Caleb Williams I mean even even best case scenario he's Kyler Murray in as a rookie right he's you know he's Kyler Murray he's you know Joe burrow wait Joe burrow was 27 and one right like he wasn't any good I mean his stats weren't bad but like that's what I'm saying it's just it's such a toss up and then if it happens you're you're immediately on the clock that rookie contract puts you on on the clock and now you're you're making moves to get things done in that that three or fouryear time frame before you have to pay the next guy and so it's like well you've got this guy under contract you've got him in a in a now you know situation where he's going to be a top eight quarterback maybe 10 in terms of contract like that those change literally yearly like he's just by the time he starts actually making money or counting against the cap yeah he's seventh right now I just looked right now um he's seventh like is he a top seven quarterback right now no that's fine but the guys in front of him are I mean the guys around him he's in in the mix with deshun Watson Dak Prescott Matthew Stafford like he's in the mix with those guys and and again your next options are 40 million in term in in Daniel Jones Derek Carr or 35 million in Jared gof like those are your next options so it it's not like you can just be like oh we're gonna get Caleb Williams and then immediately we're going to be good because that's just not doesn't make any sense it doesn't make any sense and well and it's just not how it works so like you you know I feel like we've been fans long enough to say like like Andrew luck with Bruce arens was like the exception that year as a rookie when they won 12 games and you don't get that from rookies like even pton Manning pton Manning was terrible like statistically his first year they lost games they lost so many games Troy Aman's rookie year terrible Cowboys were awful and I'm like like rookie quarterbacks go through bad they they're usually on bad teams you don't get a good rookie quarterback on a good team right well and you had Trevor Lawrence two years ago I mean three and 14 led the league in interceptions last year comes back 25 and8 and now they're you know they're loaded up they're trying to make a run for things right and and because they're on the clock and so like how Jacksonville handles it things like that like everybody's like just assumes like oh you got to be like San Francisco well San Francisco has been lucky if anything and and and guess what that's all coming due next year so like next year their Situation's super untenable so it just it it's one of those situations where you have to just understand that these guys or teams you it's about the organization and if you're able if you're able to create a stable organization that allows you to win then then everything falls into place but if it's literally just like hey we have a three-year running clock to get something done well then you're going to be disappointed because it's it's very unlikely that you're going to reach that goal in those three years or you will and and again you and I wouldn't complain but then you're the Rams right and guess what you know who's the team that's gonna end up with Caleb Williams right the Rams yeah it will be the Rams it most certainly will be the Rams um interesting thing that came around Michael Lombardi was was on was it Pat McAfee um talking about the Cardinals and Kyler Murray and the kind of the situation and somehow through out there the idea that the Cardinals always like basically Steve Kim wanted Kyler Murray in 2019 and as a result of that going into the draft going into that off season they they hired Cliff Kingsburg because they wanted Kyler Murray I do not know where Lombardi gets that information if that is in information that he just made up or or if this was you know Steve Kim or a friend of Steve Kim feeding mbard Latin because that narrative is absolutely atrociously bad and if you follow the Cardinals we know we know that's not the case Steve K wanted nothing to do with Kyler Murray he said it himself he didn't even look at Kyler Murray tape until after the combine when honestly when he knew that that Kyler was going to be in the draft and he didn't want he didn't want Kyler he had just drafted Josh Rosen they they hired Cliff Kingsbury to fix Josh Rosen that that was what that's what they talked about on the they talked about Josh Rosen and what they needed to do for him K and Kim basically said Kyler forced him to draft him because he was so good this was a guy who wanted to draft Nick Bosa they wanted Nick Bosa they wanted Josh Rosen to be the for future of the team and Kyler's tape was just too good that nonsense it's it's it's hogwash Kim was not the was not the reason they did not hire Cliff Kingsbury because of Kyler they hired Cliff Kingsbury because they wanted an offensive coach right and so you know and that's what I was alluding to earlier this is the uh Steve Kim tour where he's able to basically try to recreate history to make him look better than than he has looked and I get it I mean like at the end of the day the last Tyler was drafted by K but it wasn't because that was the whole plan to begin with no and you know the last couple years were bad and and I get that and it was tough and you know you're trying to work back through it but at the end of the day like it is what it is and and you just I mean you have had your chances and you fell short you made you made wrong decisions and moves and and you you know one of the guys that we've known for years uh I think he even might have written for you at one point Kent hoer talks about it all the time Kent Kent wrote briefly with me back when I was running your site yeah and and I he talks about it all the time this is what you I mean and and what you get a strong phrase so I don't mean it in that way but this is what you get when you chase the ghost of Daryl Washington for a decade cuz that's literally I mean literally that's what he was doing let's be honest like he found a unicorn and it never and it and he just never gave it up after that like he just he couldn't give it up and and and that's the thing is like as a GM not that you and I have ever done it obviously but as a GM like you have to be able to say like oh those were mistakes and then you have to also look at the NFL where the NFL is and how it's trending or where it's trending and say oh all these other teams that are good aren't wasting first round picks on linebackers off ball linebackers they draft pass rushers and now you know wide receivers and and these things maybe we should look at doing that but it was just you know that's let's draft pass rushers to become offb backers right exactly exactly so you know it's unfortunate um but it's also you know are you g to take the word of the guy that's not working now that's doing the media rounds to try to kind of fluff himself back up or are you going to are you going to use your eyes and ears of what we actually know happen and that's that's let's be honest like I said like we started the show with 8 million views on on a on a tweet snippet 39,000 people actually watched the video so like it's much easier to be like oh yeah Steve K genius for a long time I wonder you know but Kyler Murray ruined his career and and cost him his job it's like no that's not how it went down yeah and with that we will wrap up this edition of the rise of seral podcast best of cardinal talk web this is episode 457 we will the we're going to try and and find the schedule now to hit two or three shows a week we'll record again Thursday night talking about Cardinals commanders in week one and I hope to have a commanders writer reporter guest later in the week as well that's Seth Cox I'm chest R thanks for listening as always we'll be back again soon thanks for listening to the latest edition of the rise up C red podcast listen to previous episodes and subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts Stitcher radio audioboom or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly to your mobile device please give the show a five-star rating and always support the sponsors who support the show we'll be back soon for the best hour of cardinals talk on the web rise up red SE be redc red and of course rise up CED [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] rise rise rise r