nobody won on the merits and that's because both candidates all right did not do what they needed to do to convince the majority of Americans that they would win the presidential election or should win it okay and I'm gonna get into micro detail on both the vice president and the former president that's number one nobody won if you were gonna vote for Donald Trump before the debate you're still gonna vote for and same thing with Kamala Harris Harris did not hurt herself okay by her a massive evasions because she came off as somebody could articulate a thought unlike Joe Biden in June Trump hurt himself a little bit not with his supporters but with people who were maybe considering him