Concord Canceled! Should PlayStation Abandon Live Service Games? | Space Marine 2 Review Round-Up

e e [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] what's up everyone welcome to another brap it is uh Wednesday I can't believe it's September already we're already in the month of September and uh yeah I just um I don't know what to say say September um hold on a sec here all right sorry about that um let's see looks like Discord we have some issues with Discord here maybe let me just double check settings here Discord is not oh there we go oh no we're not Discord is not showing that we're talking um all right can I get a sound check everyone can everyone hear me okay that's first and foremost because for whatever reason Discord is not showing up or showing that um let me see here give me a second here guys loud and clear okay yeah I don't I don't know like usually the Discord icon will pop up when someone's chatting you'll see like it turn green um so maybe it's a Discord issue I I don't know what's happening um let me see something here real quick I don't know if it's a setting that I I don't know if it's I don't know let's see this is going to bother me now for the show yeah I don't I don't know that's really weird it's not uh it's not doing its thing all right we we'll figure it out you guys will you guys will hear the voices and uh anyhow uh welcome welcome everyone uh to brap sorry about that just thought I was having some uh some issues having some Discord issues something's going on with Discord I'm not entirely sure like usually like you will see it turn green um when um when I'm chatting or when I'm talking you'll see that but it's not doing that for some reason so let me just check one more thing here that's that's all set correctly H yeah I don't know it's really weird uh we'll we'll deal with it for this show but um oh boy uh I I see I see we're starting early here by the way with the the ignorance and so I'm going to say this to you uh Dixon sidm with the $2 Super Chat um first of all um and I respectfully I mean this you're an idiot um you you probably don't even understand what Dei really means um two uh Concor did not fail because of Dei like that's the most stupid thing and by the way thank you for giving me your money for saying something [ __ ] stupid thank you I I really appreciate that by the way please I mean give me more of your money cuz clearly you're an idiot so thank you um you know and you know what's funny uh and whoever hit hit that like button um oh Nate's here all right let me let a Nate in here real quick all right we got a Nate in the house a Nate what's going on man can you hear me uh yeah for some reason you are coming out of my speakers though oh that's all right okay there we go oh well you know what I guess I guess you need to be in here for the the okay never mind I I just I just totally gaffed the whole thing with Discord I thought there was an issue with it not green the you know anyhow whatever but um look these guys are starting early in N uh we we had a$ Super Chat uh I'm assuming this is um um what's up capona 5150 capona says I wish we could stop using the word woke it sounds so mature it really does it's Capone you got to understand something it is it is the word of the ignorant the people that that don't here's the thing and this is what's funny about Dixon's commentary there's been a lot of conversation around games failing because of Dei no that's not why that's not why because there games that quote unquote or Dei if you want to call them Dei that have been successful right that maybe um star a female protagonist uh you can think of a particular Sony PlayStation exclusive um that's had success but my My overall point is this or a game called The Last of Us um but my my my mying point is this this is the problem with inserting um political narratives into gaming one it's stupid two it's based on a false pretense and if you and if you repeat the LIE over and over and over again within an echo chamber it it starts becoming it it becomes reality if you say it enough but it's based on a lie a false pretense you know but many of us Dixon can see through this lie because we're not in that small Echo chamber see Dixon you are a very small minority of idiots who get together and bounce this idea off of Di and woke and all this other stuff it's all based on a lie but you've come to believe it because when you tell a lie over and over and over again within an echo chamber that lie becomes reality becomes truth to you but but it's a lie Concord failed because it wasn't a good game and a discussion but I'll but thank you for your money what's going on in eight sorry about that I had to do a quick rant no you're good man uh no I'm good uh yeah I mean to your point you know with Concord you know obviously because of everything that happened for me personally it that's how it was for me it just wasn't a good game for me uh and in awake of a time when my time is being highly competed for uh I just got a ton of other games I'd rather play so yeah I get you on that but yeah man uh otherwise man I'm good uh like I said still playing blackm Wukong uh on PC um still phenomenal uh you you know I I I disagreed with the way it was brought up from some people early on like some people were too early on when they stated that but now that I'm a lot further um man it it is definitely looking like a strong Contender uh despite some of my issues with some of the game design uh choices that they made with like invisible walls and the way that they cordoned off areas they could have done better but just God man the the artistical value uh visual Fidelity and scale is unlike almost unlike anything I've ever seen before like it reminds me of like some of the really big things that naughty dog did you know when you would uh have like the huge statues and stuff like that that you would do uh the puzzles on and stuff like just some of the areas are so big and so grandiose like it's just but on top of them being big they're all just incredibly detail oriented right like when you step into these areas and these palaces and these places you go through man it is just beautiful uh some of the the same goes for some of the armor uh the intricacies and some of the armor that you come across uh weapons the whole nine yards man it just the the skill tree is extensive which I personally love as a RPG fan uh I I love a good extensive skill tree that really lets you you know keep adding to yourself you know throughout the entirety of the game lets you farm and get as strong as you want to big fan of that um but yeah man it it's looking like a strong uh Contender and then uh I've also been playing um Star Wars Outlaws uh I've been having some fun with that uh I haven't got as far as I want to the game is I definitely get where people are coming from saying the game is a slower Pace uh Brokenness here by the way um but the game is definitely a slower Pace um as far as like the stealth like you really got to be kind of methodical if you want to be careful with it and uh things of that nature like it's just uh it's definitely a slower burn so I get where some people are just kind of taken away from it um and then of course tomorrow morning about 9:00 a.m. my time the early edition of Space Marine 2 unlocks and of course you know I'm playing that on PC so yeah so going to stretch that 4090 out you know let let it do what it's supposed to do you know and really put some work on it like I've been doing lately with Wukong so yeah man so much to play man and then I'm still forgetting astrobot and agent mythol I just I can't find the time it's just it's crazy right now yeah there's I I you know I I've I've read some people um I'm listening to some shows they said this is kind of a Down year gaming I think we talked about this last Friday on BR and I just don't agree with that that sentiment at least for me I mean maybe for some people it is that's fair um that's their opinion but I I I don't see it I mean I'm playing blackm Wukong right now uh I feel you on the visible walls they drive me crazy during boss battles like it's just like why like come on like really um yeah you know I I feel like and I'm early on the game there's um I'm only a couple hours in but I think the uh in between the mini bosses and bosses it just I don't know it just feels a little um shall is the right word to use um it's just not as engaging as the boss battles you know what I mean like and maybe that and maybe that changes as you progress later on the game but um it definitely expands a lot well that's good that's good to hear but the boss battles I mean are I I I I yeah I enjoy them I mean just when you enjoy them now yeah boy you in for it I'm telling you yeah no I can't I I I I I am thoroughly enjoying this game and um I'd love to get the Star Wars Outlaws that's going to be put on the back burner um you talked about uh Warhammer uh or space uh spor hammer 40,000 Space Marines 2 is coming out as well we'll talk about the do a quick review Roundup that that game is reviewing well I'll be playing it on PC um my I go back oh gez probably to my childhood with um Space Marines um um but but anyhow yeah I mean I I do agree with youate I think this is at least in my opinion been a pretty pretty decent year uh for video games but uh I do want to welcome our other guests this evening uh BG uh BG it's been a while but uh thank you for joining us on brab how are you this evening hey what's going on fellas uh let me know first of all how I sound um because uh you know the I'm I'm pretty much on my phone and my headphones the wife you know do you have to go upstairs can't you just do it from here you know no I mean you you C I mean it's obviously not your wave three you know what I'm saying but you sound good yeah sorry I wanted to be on the mic but you know no glad to be here you don't want to be on the couch tonight BG exactly no I I look man I I I hear you man I feel you I yep I I hear you um but uh yeah so BJ we're just talking about games we playing right now what are you currently playing right now uh I just did a I mean I was playing black myth Wukong and man I was putting in a lot of hours in that um streaming it seven hours eight hours uh till I beat it been a while since I did that with a game um and I really enjoyed it uh very solid experience you know I would probably give it an 8 8.5 very fun challenging but not you know it's not I wouldn't put it um super high on the difficulty scale aside from maybe like three bosses but it it's a it's a good challenge um so I've been playing that I beat that uh now just waiting for I'll be on Space Marine 2 tomorrow um astrobot also when it comes out so yeah BG I I know um we're only in the month of September well I say only we're we're we're we're getting close to the end of the year with at least with blackm Wukong I mean would you of all the games you played this year would you put that as maybe a goatee maybe uh it's a nominee I wouldn't say okay I to me some people are acting like it's like a shoe win oh this should win over everything else it's not that cas it's a it's a good game even great in some ways but it definitely has its flaws it's you know you could see like it's you could see that the F that the second game assuming they make a second one um because of the extreme success successes had that okay this is the foundation they're going to go crazy with with the second one they're going to fix all the flaws level some of the level design some of the limited move sets in the uh in the stances and everything like that and flesh everything out that's going to be that game is probably going to be the shoe in easy game of the year winner but not this one this this one is just the the nominee I agree yeah that's what I've been saying I think it's a strong nominee but like you said I think I'm gonna land about where you said about a 88.5 when I'm done just cuz I mean for us especially uh in here I mean as long as we've been gaming we tend to pay attention to the more detail oriented things in game design and stuff like that when we're playing and I feel like we pull a lot more of the flaws or issues out while we're playing the game but also still enjoying it at the same time I feel like a lot of people they just get caught up in the the Zach ice going on and like they five minutes in and they're like oh my God game of the year and I'm like bro you just beat the first boss like calm down I feel I feel like you're judging me right now I'll tell you that that that opening seene of black Mo luk CL I was like oh go it's fire it's fire I appreciate that they're learning though because prior to that the only one that kind of gave me that crazy opening feeling in recent memory was that Spider-Man 2 opening that that was crazy so to get that and for them to start it off at that level I was excited like I felt like that was a nice precursor to how nice you were going to be later you know after you get your weight up so yeah I enjoyed that the opening was phenomenal yeah yeah no it was a great opening I think it it set it to me it set a nice tone to the game um obviously it gave me some some God of War Vibes there right um but um yeah I'm I'm enjoying it I I I I want to play through it before I I get to something else because my my time recently has been limited because um I coach baseball during the week so it's like I don't have as much time as I would normally uh gaming um so yeah I want to get through that and then um you know hopefully get to to astrobot when that comes out so um but I think it's again I think it's been a great year a pretty solid year again in my opinion for gaming um uh BG was it was it Jack move who said that this year is hasn't been a good year in gaming did I see you comment on that or something today yeah well Jack Mo thinks this this whole generation hasn't been great but Jack moves um and I'm going to get on him about this uh but the thing is Jack moves it's not that this generation hasn't been great it's his taste yes because last year you know was a crazy year for gaming with the quality and the quantity that came out but most of those games but just he he didn't play so it it's one of those things where you know he's a big Indie guy stuff like that and he's very selective about the type of games he likes so it's like yeah it it he he needs to be able to separate the fact that it's not the it's not the generation and it's not the years it's it's just your preference because there's also been you know a bunch of games this year that you know is in line with what he likes but he hasn't played them I mean thank you he has the um like Prince of Persia I'm pretty sure he didn't play Stellar blade or uh that other Samurai game that came out from Ninja um uh he hasn't played blackm myth yet um he's probably not going to play Space Marine so it's like hey man some of this is your own doing you know that's my guy though but some of this is his own doing yeah you know if it's not River City girls he you know he don't want n nothing to do with it that's funny yeah no I mean I but I I I think uh that speaks to like I guess to me that speaks to just how um as Gamers we all have different tastes you know for different types of games um you know I I I I wouldn't agree with his perspective but I understand if he's not getting the games he wants either you know I kind of I so so so I would agree with that if he had played these other games cuz I I I know blade yeah he bought Stell blade but he hadn't played it so I'm like I'm with I'm with BG on that one it's like bro we can't be down talking the year when you haven't even played some of the standouts that you most likely are gonna like I'm not I'm not try to pick on uh on Jack move he's not here but uh he bought Stella blade hasn't played atg I mean he tweeted it I mean you ain't even got to ask like I I confirmed it I don't even know if he bought it I'm not sure yeah he said he said he said he bought it and it was still on the oh yeah okay that that's funny that's funny well uh speaking of uh Warhammer 40,000 Space Marine 2 the reviews came out today um and it's actually reviewed pretty well in all platforms uh 80 it's currently at 82 Metacritic on Xbox uh based on 16 Critic reviews on PC uh it's an 83 best based on 42 Critic reviews and uh 82 uh on PS5 based on 26 critic reviews and um another game it's all my on my radar I don't know if I'll get to it tomorrow so I will lean on you Nate I may bring ask you to come back next week to talk about your experience with uh Space Marine 2 uh but I do want to read I want to read some of the uh the headlines here tryhard guides uh I've never heard of that site but uh gave it a 100 is said Warhammer 40K Space Marine 2 is a game for fans of the franchise and newcomers alike providing great cinematic action gameplay genuine fun that can be experienced alone or with a group it's my favorite game of the year so far by the way everyone in the live chat let me know if you're picking up Space Marine 2 tomorrow uh if you'll be playing it this weekend um also do me a quick favor hit that like button if you haven't done so already helps out the channel um let's see here let's go to the other reviews uh I don't uh I'm try to avoid these sites that I've never heard of here we go uh gamer rent gave it a 90 they said uh even without knowing the lore around Warhammer 40,000 Space Marine 2 does a great job inviting new fans into the franchise by showing the unwavering uh courage sacrifice and devotion of these super soldiers but that doesn't mean these that doesn't mean things are dumbed down to disrespect Die Hard fans being a veteran of the franchise is in ense IAL um to the enjoyment of Space Marine 2 while it it might further satisfy the experience Universe has brought to life with such detail that it makes for the perfect Gateway for newcomers let's see [Music] here Games Radar plus gave an 80 said war 40,000 Space Marine 2 is exceptional Larger than Life shooter that raises the bar for all Warhammer adaptations a dizzying sense of scale along with some of the slickest combat around will leave you often breathless but always grinning uh Euro gamer also gave it an 80 uh Space Marines 2 uh campaign is spectacular and the most thrilling follow-up to the original but the game's Grizzly combat shines best in its Cooperative operation mode so those are just some of the reviews uh PC games I'll read PC games here G the 80 as well if you were expecting a compreh comprehensive action adventure with exploration vary death and motivate motivating character development you should definitely look for another game because space Mar 2 simply doesn't offer all that even dur Eternal offers a lot more here to be fair uh to be oh shoot where did I leave off here to be fair however it must also be said that the developers of Space Marine 2 never pris anything other than a graphically Rich Co-op Slaughter all right Nate so has has your hype level going up now oh I mean I've been ready man like I mean I already know what to expect I mean I'm a big fan of the 40K Series in general I mean I played dawn of War dawn of War 2 and all that over the years uh so I mean I already know what type of party it is with the Space Marines uh so this one was just looking too crazy to pass up I mean I'm literally just jumping in this to play co-op jump in go crazy shoot stuff blow stuff up tear something up I mean that's the goal and obviously by all them reviews I got exactly what I paid for and you'll be playing on PC which uh in my in my opinion the uh best platform to play video games uh BG I think you said you're going to pick this game up too right yeah um I'll be playing I'll be playing it you could turn down a little bit um my bad uh yeah I'll be playing it um I never actually never played the first one uh I bought the anniversary edition but you know with PC gaming for random reasons the anniversary edition of the first game just doesn't work just it just it'll just boot up real quick for a second and then crash so oh wow yeah so it's it's weird so I was like well I guess I'm not playing the first one I'll just watch watch a recap um and just get the the you know the main details of what I need to know going into the second game but I'm very excited about it the game play looks gory looks fun nice third person shooting um I like that the campaign is you know they say it's like 12 around averages around 10 to 12 hours um some people hear that and get turned off I hear that and get excited you know cuz I feel like most of what we play now is just unnecessary open world games for 40 plus hours so whenever there's a short campaign for anything I get very I get very excited just short concise to the point you know just shoot shoot shoot him up so um yeah I'm not the biggest fan of Co-op but I'll probably try that out and definitely try out uh you know that that multiplayer too um I'm liking how that's that multiplayer looks very traditional and uh back to you know Generations ago um PS3 360 era uh type design um and it's a it's a beautiful game um you know they they' really look seem like they've like just poured a lot of their um their heart into this one and really really learned um and evolved a lot from the from the from the from what I've seen of the first game so I think a lot of a lot of people wrote wrote the first game off it's just like almost like a knockoff gears but I think uh people are looking at it a little bit it of course it has its gears Inspirations but I think a lot of people are looking at it with a kind of with a different light especially since um we haven't had a gears in a while it's kind you know they announced that the the prequel but gears is not at its the height of its popularity now so this game actually has a chance to get some respect you know um so yeah I'm excited for it yeah the first uh space ring game uh a 140,000 Space Marine game came out uh 13 years ago um it's been a long time yeah it's a long and it actually um hold on a sec here it um it's here it uh had a meta critic of 76 so so uh this the second installment here isn't too far off from the first in terms of the medic score but um but I think for me like the the the co-op and just the gore was what kind of like and plus I'm I'm familiar with the uh the Space Marine that Warhammer 40,000 World Space Marines I used to collect the figurines um and things like that when I was younger so so um so I'm familiar with it but um but yeah I mean I I you know BG it's there's something to be said for what you uh for to to your point about uh I think you say like you heard this game is like 12 to 14 hours and other people may balk at that say ah I can't believe that it's only 12 13 hour I I BG I agree with you I I don't think every game needs to be 45 50 hours I think that's Overkill at times like give me something give me give me like something that I can just you know play and enjoy for 12 13 hours if it's a good if it's a great experience I'm happy I don't need everything to be 40 50 hours I think sometimes that's Overkill yeah no I mean I I I agree uh I mean it gets talked about a lot in my circle because uh obviously I primar primarily play jrpgs uh first and foremost so obviously they are known for being really long uh obviously that's a genre you expect to be long but I still play tons of games that are outside of that genre that are shorter uh you know uh nice concise experiences that are curated for you know like I said that that kind of get in and get out experience where you know you're just MIT a you know I guess the summer blockbuster hit you know what I mean you go in for uh 12 like you said about 10 to 12 hours you get something amazing maybe it's got the replayability of something like an Uncharted where you can go back on a harder mode and you know go for the Platinum or whatever but that's all you need and then you're done and it's just like man what a great you know film or fil you know like experience where you just go in and you get that experience and then you're done with it like you're good um yeah I got no I got no issues with that especially on top of that with this game I mean there's other Co-op missions on top of that to extend your gameplay uh to build up your your Space Marine and go for different uh accolades and stuff and uh unlockable cosmetics and then of course you know uh there's also the PVP for you know people who want to go even further with the experience so yeah I mean I think this game is offering plenty uh so yeah I mean I'm I'm excited for it that doesn't tear me away any like a rather a solid 12 like I said 12 to 14 hour experience than something 45 to 80 hours padded to death because that's what's been killing me lately with a lot of games it's like I love a long game as a jrpg fan but some of these games doing too much with the padding and I'm like I don't need all this like padding like I want the concise experience when I'm playing to really feel like you're not patting it out right like don't make it longer for long just to be longer for longer sake you know what I'm saying like I that I hate that I hate when you could tell that you know what I'm saying it's like oh man this should have ended like nothing worse than enjoying a game and then getting towards the end and you're like it doesn't end and you're like it went 6 to 7 hours longer than you felt like it should have and they just ruined it it's like yeah so so I'm definitely with you on that yeah I can tell you I uh I remember forget 2016 late 2016 I uh I actually on boarded onto Persona 5 after it released and I played Persona 5 I think I put about 100 I don't know 150 hours into it maybe over 100 for sure and then that February Horizon um Dawn release and I put like another I forget how many hours in that like backtack games and I remember like I didn't want to play video game for like a month like exactly like literally I I I literally took like two or three weeks off from even touching a video game because it was so much for me I was like I I'm just I'm done for right now I need a break yeah you definitely you definitely got to fix it up yeah that fatigue is really that fatigue is really is very real man like this that that happened to me with Elden ring I mean BR after pretty much beating over like a hundred bosses and um just beating the game and I don't know how many hours I didn't for for a little while I didn't want to play a video game and then a little bit after that I didn't want to even I love souls games I'm like bro I don't I don't want to see a soul game I don't want to play an open world game for a while and it's like that's that's what these games you know these really long games do and that's why like the the short just 10hour simple games just are like pallet cleansers um even Final Fantasy rebirth I Platinum that game uh earlier this year and I have over 200 hours in it it it it takes an an insane amount of time to get the platinum and I I deleted literally deleted the game right after that's that's my game of the year but I deleted it as soon as I got the Platinum I I'm like I don't even want to look at this game for a long time yeah yeah I don't blame you on that because honestly I got invited to a spoilercast for that game and ironically obvious for obvious reasons because of the jrpg thing but I had to tell them I was like bro that game has so much going on and so much stuff that this game will be lucky when I beat it but but I had to shove it for right now cuz I was like I need to get through the rest of these games in that game like you said 200 plus hours for the Platinum I was like bro this game will be lucky when I beat it but I don't want to just beat it you know halfway like some people just be line it through a game I don't want to do that I want to get the full experience but like you said instead of the Platinum soon as I'm done beating this game I'mma delete it the same way and I I heard you had a conversation at one point about deleting your games I tend to not do that but this is one of them games I'm going definitely do that on so yeah I I feel you on that but yeah phenomenal game but like you said when you're done you're just like man all right get out of here I'm done with that you know yeah I think I think the game I think back to this this Persona 5 and uh Horizon zero Dawn I I think the game that I actually got me back into gaming B you mentioned the palet cleanser odly enough was Ry son of Rome because it was easy to pick up it was like qte it was like I didn't have to think about anything and it was it was fun that's the key that's the key when you could just jump in it jump in on something exct and not think yeah those are great yeah I get that cuz I'm the opposite of that when I'm when I'm in my when you're in your Zone you know what I'm saying like I'm like yo if this game ain't deep enough it ain't got enough systems if it ain't Str you know strategic enough I don't want it but then when when you're done with those big games I'm just like that's why sometimes you'll see me on fortnite you know saying in zero build just I'm going just play two or three matches of that and I'm going call that gaming for the day and then I I just stop and I'll watch anime I'll read a book I'll do something else but not gaming so yeah I get that yeah um I I will probably honestly get to astrobot before before Space Marine too yeah um do we know know the length of astrobot uh have they I I haven't kept up too much with it so um in about 10 hours I think they 10 12 hours around around that yeah yeah I may that yeah that's something I'll probably get to before um that seems like just a game that I could just get into and maybe maybe relax a bit more um as I play it um I do know uh IGN is giving it a nine tomorrow I do know that they are oh 's GNA give it a nine yeah yeah interesting I've I've heard from other people that are playing it that have shared that like basically say this is like one of the best games of the year to come out um yeah so I I I I would imagine we're going to see a lot of nins tomorrow for astrobot because Astro playroom was solid I thought like that was I mean I mean best used in my to date of the uh the ha feedback on the uh the Dual sets controllers yeah it definitely uh blew a lot of people away when I first got my PS5 and uh let a couple non- Gamers take it for a spin and they were just like you can see like the Elation on people's faces like uh especially my favorite part to let them play was when uh you were in the the spaceship and you could individually control the boosters on either side and it just shook the controller and the the whole haptic feedback in that that was just phenomenal so yeah I mean that the way they've just expanded on everything that original game had to offer and just blew it up to 10 like you know like perfect so and this is coming from somebody who personally does not typically like Platformers like Platformers are like right above puzzle games for me somewhere down in The Ether where I usually don't don't play them like that so for me to buy a platformer day one you know it's got to be something serious um and it's not that some of the games again the difference to explain to people just I don't like them don't mean I can't tell it's a good game like the Prince of Persia game that came out earlier again I thought that game was phenomenal but I played the demo for 10 minutes and I deleted it I a want nothing to do with it but I was like man what a great game it's just not for me and I know that hey man you know what you like right um all right I you want to move on to some uh Playstation Rel related topics um there's an article that came out today from uh Playstation lifestyle uh website I actually don't frequent much um uh but the article uh discusses um the title of the article is actually Sony doesn't have enough original Ip per heroki Toki uh articles by zerman Khan um and heroki toi told the financial times we are lacking the early phase of Ip and that's an issue for us uh Toki added that Sony as a whole has been better at finding new audiences for existing popular IPS and thinks that the company won't grow without creating content from scratch for high returns um the one thing that I I I I I that I found interesting about this particular um articles don't think heroki to Toki is necess necessarily um singling Out PlayStation per se uh but Sony in general I know I've seen a lot of people say um oh actually I'm sorry the I forgot the LA the first part of the article here uh the Toki records that company doesn't have enough original Ip including in its PlayStation division uh the group is making a multi billion dollar investment to creating original content a bid to widen chare of the entertainment industry and an interview um I'm sorry uh of the entertainment industry and this is for the interview that he had with Financial Times uh toi has a desire to Foster new IP from beginning so so I've seen a lot of people uh tend to focus on Playstation this is not just PlayStation but uh as we know uh Sony is also I mean outside of um um the camera lenses and things like that and um you know they they're they're music uh television um anime uh movies and then obviously PlayStation he isn't just solely focusing on PlayStation and and I and I haven't read the article for financial times it's locked behind a pay wall but um but I'm not like I I just like as I'm reading the article I'm just in my mind I'm thinking okay like is it is he is he looking at this more on the Sony PlayStation side of the business or is he just saying in general like okay look we we need to do a better job across the board uh maybe not so much more on PlayStation than other groups um or maybe we need to do this more on movies like that I feel like that's that's something we don't know um but nevertheless it's it's a thing out there right and I've seen people say U that PlayStation need to bring back some um uh some of their original Ip um but I'll go to you on this BG um and let's focus on the PlayStation side since this is a gaming podcast but um do you think that the at least on the PlayStation side of things they're lacking original Ip right now um and that it's time to maybe try to create some new IP from you know from some of their Studios or maybe go back and U revive some of the older IPS I mean we we've we we've all seen the conversations around bring back Socom or bring back um oh my God what's Again by Sucker Punch I forget um Infamous I'm getting old what's that Infamous Infamous thank you so what are your thoughts BG yeah when I saw this I was a little bit uh confused I'm like I think he needs to clarify I mean I was like does he mean new IP that seems to be what he implies is the creation and being in the early face phases of creating more new IP because I'm like he can't just be talking about IP in general um he has to be talking about just the creation of of new ones um because PlayStation has a bunch of Ip that they own that they've created themselves from from their Inception they're not I don't think they're they're short on that so he can't just mean in general they own a lot of different IPS um well on the PlayStation side they on the I'm sorry BG on the PlayStation side they they've created more newer IPS right um you know we know Corey barlock I don't want to say it's a forgotten name but a name we haven't heard um in some time um since God of War 2018 but Cory Baro is working on a new IP apparently a Sci-Fi IP for Sony and apparently um Ben Studios working on new IP as well so I'm sorry yeah go ahead and supposedly uh blueo as well that's the claim um so yeah that's the only reason why I was a little bit strange to hair because even their two of their popular games are technically from new IPS like I mean Horizon is fairly new that just that just started last Generation Um ghost of fushima that was last generation but like these are still like kind of new I new IP um and yeah so so they PlayStation always from generation to generation creates new IPS because they usually that's just kind of how they move we create a series we we use it and then and then the studio moves on to something new I would say Stony uh if you wanted to compare compare them against other Publishers they they probably create more new IPS at a faster rate some some to to to what some people would say to a fault some people actually want them to stick with some of these IPS longer um but I'm not going to push back on you know the there should always be new IPS uh in you know being made and um some of their some of their IPs are you can argue whether they're not whether or not they would be viable now like whether you could use some of them now because they they've allowed some of them to go to go dormant um I think that could be an argument uh but there I and because they're in like this multiplayer crisis now yes I am one of those people who thinks like yeah uh there's a few obvious ones you should bring back and you know I don't I don't look at it as some type of high risk because hey if you could do what you just did with uh Concord which was the highest of risk there there's no higher there's no way worse bet you can make you know so it's like um yeah but PlayStation has I I think they have some good IPS on on their hands yeah and they have um you know one thing I'll say about PlayStation we all agree on the panel here is that they are really good at creating new IP they've shown this uh with their Studios um and even if they're not creating new IP they've been pretty good Iden ifying third party IP um that winds up being good I mean think about um Stellar blade being probably the most recent example yep I know I know some people might lump in black mlon but that that story of you know that the fact that it's uh you know a time exclus that that hasn't been corroborated just yet back and forth with someone on Twitter about that but that's to me that's that's that's a that's still in the RO you have you know you have you have conflicted reports scub saying no it's that time exclusive there's no deal in that regard but um you know then you look at like returnal uh with they did with hous Mark I mean I I thought I and I still think Ral is one of the best one of the better games this generation from one of their first party Studios um and like like you know I mean I I always think of h hous mark you know with Resogun at the uh the launch of the PlayStation 4 and then for them to kind of go from like uh you know uh a game like reson to returnal is just like wow you know you speaks to the talent of that studio uh but go ahead go ahead a I'm sorry you're gonna say something no no no you're good but yeah no uh I agree like to me not not only is PlayStation good at creating new IPS and uh and and the like but the bigger thing to what you just stated about hous Mark right is cultivating talent in studios and helping them up their game to the next level right like you said they had res gun and stuff like that and went to went on to create you know their first Triple A IP right so like to be able to make that transition uh as well as gorilla who went from Killzone to um you know to Horizon and then expanded upon that phenomenally with uh forbidden West and so on and so forth like cultivate people think that's easy but every time you see other like other people try to mimic it like they can't quite get it right like that the the the leaked email that famously came out right where uh Phil Spencer was like bro what how did they make this essentially when he was talking about uh The Last of Us Part Two like that's what we need to be doing like and that's why I keep telling people a lot of times it's not money is not the only thing right because if it was just money Microsoft would be destroying everybody right now um so yeah I mean I think they do a great job especially in the PlayStation space doing that keeping a proper Cadence uh with creating new IPS and then fostering that new IP uh this was something we had a big discussion on in my group chat with my uh my podcast mates and we were talking about you know as much as he was you know they were looking forward to what they could do with Infamous right now I was like look it's ghost to's time to shine there's a Cadence you know you introduce that IP that IP hit flame you need to you need to up you know up the Annie on it you need to uh you know capitalize on that and bring us that next iteration especially the way that game was written and so on and so forth uh Playstation I feel like has a good Cadence with that right it's the same thing that naughty dog did with Uncharted and you know they hit you with like one and two and then they hit you with the last of us and they that created that perfect Cadence I think that's perfect for the way that their Studios work um but I do know what he means as far as the other things because I'm also really into anime uh so they have been upping their game with crunchy roll uh since they they took it over there's actually been a number of improvements and other things they're working on but also the procurement of content and original creation um they've been working with a lot of uh Japanese Studios directly to get that done uh so yeah there there's a lot they're doing in that uh as far as like you said movies and stuff wise I couldn't really say uh but yeah in those two places I think they're doing a really good job uh as far as the new IPS and I get what he's saying uh I think it'll become even more obvious a lot more clear once PlayStation really you know breaks the silence on all these you know devs and first party Studios that we know are working on these titles like you said Cory working on something new naughty dog is also working on something new uh Ben so on and so forth I mean PlayStation's basically you know for lack of a better term like I like to personally they loading up the full clip you know what I mean they just haven't let it go yet like they they just holding all all this ammo it's like look man let me see let me see it you know put it out there so I think that excitement is building and as long as they capitalize on that like I know they can uh yeah I don't think I don't think you'll have to worry about those returns or building up excitement uh Playstation does a really good job uh of that as far as generating buzz and everything uh for their games especially their major single player tent pole titles um but yeah with that said I'm I'm going to be right back uh and I'll let you know when I'm back in the chat I got to run around the corner and pick prisilla up all right man no worries yeah no worries uh uh BG uh do you think that they need to have a new triaa IP this generation I mean I mean like I mean we've seen you know sequels to uh some of the more popular newer uh uh AAA IPS that they had uh you know from last generation I and I think the PlayStation 4 generation was a little bit different cuz you know I think you know my moft punched him in the mouth um during the PlayStation 3 generation and I think that really uh led to PlayStation really focusing on creating uh quality high-end experiences that would um that really attract people put eyes on the product on the PlayStation 3 and I think it they did and then build upon that uh Foundation laid on the PlayStation 3 and the PlayStation 4 uh but we've seen a lot of sequels to those you know those franchises they that they uh created you know last of us being one of them um the PlayStation 3 generation and then you know PS4 generation we got uh off the men of the of of the tail of the PlayStation 3 generation we got a lot of the newer uh PS4 titles um like a horizon zero Dawn um do do you think they need to have a a new IP uh triple AIP this gen or are sequels to like a ghost of sushima or or maybe The Last of Us Part three is that is that sufficient in your opinion I think they should provide both and I think they will um because people have their criticisms of uh like this gen the first half of this gen which I don't I don't necessarily fully agree with um people act like it's just been bad or mediocre um which I don't fully like I said I don't really agree with but one thing if you look at the pattern of PlayStation is listen that that's in any generation that second half of the generation they they kill they slaughter you can like I said you could have your critic like every every previous generation the first half of the generation for them it could be a hit or a miss it honestly could right the the only thing that's guaranteed is the like the final four years of the generation for them are usually AB usually absolute heat and that's when their best games come out that's when you have the best experience um because I don't know it just seems like the developers settle in and they and they just lock in and they just have they it's like they that's when they are really work working on releasing their magnum opus just the the best of the best and you know they just show it's like they're they're showing up for the F for the for the fourth quarter and I I don't know some sometimes I'm not gonna lie to you sometimes it seems um almost intentional to me with with them that is like like almost like they want to wait sometimes it because it's just it's just weird that it kind of always happens that way you know what I'm saying like and and I guess you I guess it's not only PlayStation I guess other uh well well not not all others but PlayStation are definitely the ones that always release their best stuff in in in in the in the back half um and then they uh and then they kind of like lead that use that to lead into the Next Generation and uh they kind of continue that um you know just continue down down that path and with that momentum but yeah I definitely think they need to uh finish off finish off strong um just really big games showcases um uh state of plays whatever it is I really do think they need to I do think they need to make a statement for the people who are skeptical and uh the people who are you know know crti CR you know criticizing them um because it's not that they don't stumble they definitely stumble you know here and there with some decisions and stuff like that but yeah they usually usually rebound really well too yeah that's a thing um you talk it mention kind of like how they at the tail end of the generations they tend to you know release a lot of their Heavy Hitters you know um and I often I and I I don't disagree with you I I I often wonder if that's just a by product of getting people bought in into the ecosystem or excited about the next PlayStation because you just had that that newer experience at new IP right um but this generation I felt like they they released a lot of really good titles at at launch uh we talked about um um the houseart game returnal which I thought was a really good game um they did give us the uh the remake of uh of Demon Souls which uh enjoyed I thought it was well done um you know we got Spider-Man 2 um God of War so I mean we we've we've got a lot of a lot of really good games um you know now we're going to get astrobot I know it's not a a temp pole uh Triple A per se but but still that's going to be a a newer title from them um um but I think the generation's been pretty soft for this far the only thing that concerns me BG is that with with Microsoft kind of more or less conceding the the console space like I'm just worried um I'm hly worried that uh they might take the foot off the pedal a bit because there's not a lot of competition per se you know like and that's that's the only concern that I have maybe about um maybe that that maybe not having that that that sense of urgency to to release content um because you know that your competitors are are more or less going third party right now yeah no I agree with that I mean even though even though Microsoft weren't necessarily the greatest of a competitor right they weren't for a long time they haven't been that that competition that you were act that you were actually in fear of um what their next move is going to be they haven't really been that you know instilled that type of worry since the three 360 generation but it's it it was even if you're not the greatest competition it's it's always you're you can you can always be that just that figure that's that keeps the other competitor on their toes so PlayStation they were always kept on their toes by Microsoft even though Microsoft was like was faltering with with Xbox PlayStation CU you know at at any at any point in any generation the beginning or end of one things can switch right as as we've seen them happen so PlayStation still had to be you know just just just on Watch and stay on their toes and and be vigilant and just kind of just always keep looking over their shoulder that we got to keep this momentum up we got to keep doing you know releasing these these bangers because we don't want you know we just don't want to be beat beat by our competition now it's like there is just very little chance and Poss possibility of Microsoft like Xbox becoming like for example the market leader again that's almost like at this point it seems like not even a possibility anymore so they're they're probably chilling like they they're getting all the all the marketing Deals they want they're getting all the preference from third party they're get they're they are doing everything they want with little push back whatever they want they whatever they want they get whatever they want to do they do so that and that's not necessarily always the greatest thing for for the consumer because they try harder when they feel like somebody is nipping at their heels and there's not not anybody nipping at their heels because not even Nintendo because Nintendo is is doing amazing they're going to continue doing amazing but Nintendo and Playstation are in two different Lanes like M technically you can say their their competition but not in the same way that PlayStation and Xbox were competition they were like they were Xbox and Playstation were fighting over the same thing Nintendo and Playstation are just in the same industry but they're fighting for two different things that's a yeah so it it was it was very different you know Microsoft and Nintendo they were kind of fighting over the same audience it's not the same you know with Nintendo and Playstation so they're they're they're just in the same industry in two different Lanes so it was you know PlayStation is if if Nintendo sells 150 consoles and their their software sales are through the roof PlayStation is like that's great because we could you could do that and we can also sell 100 million whatever consoles usually if if usually between Xbox and Playstation both could not do that because they're like pulling from the same pool you know so it's not the same the other way yeah I mean that's that's a great Point PG I mean and that's the thing like people people often uh and I see this I don't know where this this this this comes from but to your point I mean Nintendo and Playstation are are fighting for a different Market segment within gaming um they're not going after the same consumer per se even though there's some there's some there's some there's some there's some overlap right there's some folks that are own both right but but but mostly speak like they're not they're not even on the they're not competing in the same space uh I know people laughed at the notion of the high-end console Market I do believe that I believe the highend you have high-end devices uh and you have uh in the switch I would say kind of would be on that that that lower end you know kind of never forget having that debate with slobo about highend consoles versus lowend and I'm like no I I believe that segment ation exist uh in the in the console space you know um but excuse me but yeah I mean like when you don't go back to the PlayStation 3 generation when Microsoft punched him in the face I mean that that was a different that was a different PlayStation you know I mean they they they got their act together after getting punched in the face and focus on putting out some really good content um and laying on a foundation for the success of the PlayStation 4 towards the tail end of PS3 and it really started CH turning things around I mean even from a um I know we talked about this uh on this show before and I know something that's been discussed quite a bit but to the point where they they caught up eventually would end up catching up to um Hardware unit sold globally to the Xbox 360 so um so that's like that's my really only concern that maybe they they they they keep their or they they put their uh uh you know they they don't keep their foot on the pedal um and maybe go and cruise control a little bit because you're right BG I mean like they're getting the third party deals they're getting games released on or or their console being a priority over the Xbox console you know we see that with with you know we've seen and it even if it's not a series s issue we've seen that we've seen developers say oh you we're prioritizing our our uh release um or launch release off for for the PlayStation 5 and and PC platform you know and then and then we'll get to the Xbox later or sometimes it may just skip it all together because again I mean um as we've said on this show sometimes uh to Simply put it that the juice isn't worth the squeeze for developers to maybe Port things over to the Xbox console given the install base and the fact that said on this show before you have to contend with Game Pass if you're releas releasing your game on the Xbox platform because so many people do subscribe to Xbox game pass on the Xbox console um and that's why I you know BG I think the the one thing that kind of bothered me about um some of the uh console warriors uh on the Xbox side of things and some of the um um content creators that were really die hard Xbox content creators I think the the one thing that bothered me is that every move that Microsoft made they were like this is great this is awesome this is the way the industry is going and I'm not saying it's entirely their fault you know uh for for uh you know the pivot that that that that Xbox is making now but I don't but I didn't really see them push back you know as Eric Jackson says um quite a bit they they kind of acquest to everything that that Phil would tell them with Xbox would tell them about whatever the new strategy is and I didn't really hear them beating the drum and and this is the one thing that I'll say they know is different about the PlayStation Community um is that um I didn't really think see the Xbox fans demanding better games per se I could be wrong but I didn't see that or I didn't hear that from some of the content creators it was more like oh the series series the series X the most powerful conso is going to be amazing you know the series s is you know a game changer oh Game Pass is the new is the future you know um I just didn't really I I I didn't see them or hear them kind of hold Microsoft's feet to the fire and I think in part that didn't help Microsoft and didn't help the product get better I didn't I didn't like that they didn't question uh Xbox when um Microsoft started to change the rules right um because when you when they were losing right their strategy is okay we can't win um playing this game and Phil Spencer said that right cool we we can't win we can't out console PlayStation or Nintendo we can't outsell this we can't outn goti this so we have to change the rules and essentially create our own rules cool no no problem right so that's where Game Pass comes from that's where engagement numbers are more important than anything else comes from um that's where you get Xbox practic just practicing the strategies that nobody else in the industry is doing and nobody is using those you know these rules as the the ultimate law it was only it was only uh Xbox abiding by those by this new uh set of rules right and ex a lot of Xbox fans thought just because Microsoft was doing it that actually meant like oh they are the they are the judge they are the judges they are the I don't know the the founding fathers to be establishing these rules and it's like what what about Microsoft tells you that they can set the rules for the industry what makes you think they can change the rules and set them and and now that's what the industry goes by the rest of the industry isn't abiding by this so it's like why why do y'all think their their statement rules Supreme that's what I didn't understand about like all the fans like why are y'all not questioning that part when they when they historically and you know it it's historically and everybody else in the industry fails are what matters the most that that's just that's always been an established fact as as far as like when you're gauging the success of something or gauging the interest of something that's always been it it sales it it it's that's that's what it's always been that's what it's always going to be Microsoft suddenly came out the Woodworks told you that hey it's all about engagement and everybody just fell in line okay it's all about engagement like wait wait wait we're not gonna we're not going to question this and what and I'm not mad at Microsoft changing the rules because they kind of had to they felt they had to but why are you as the consumer and the fan just falling in line and not thinking logically why like if every other publisher every other developer everything else in the industry outside of Microsoft is telling you that sales matter most why when Microsoft tells you that it doesn't why are you listening to them they're the minority in the situation they're the and this is not dumping on them but they're the loser in the situation absolutely why are you listening to them if anything you're North your North Star in any of this the North Star should be Nintendo that is the Northstar right regard as as far as like measurement of success if whatever usually like Nintendo is behind when it comes to things like that but when it comes to just the the basic rules and how things are going in the industry check what Nintendo is doing if if nobody if that doesn't line up then you might need to question it so that's what that was that that that whole era was just so weird to me how they were all just drinking that that Kool-Aid that Microsoft was giving them and not questioning it questioning it at all like like y'all know y'all had to know better like y'all are not y'all y'all didn't just get in the industry and start gaming yesterday so just because Xbox and a bunch of ex told you that like y'all were ready to suddenly believe it against all conventional wisdom it was just very weird yeah what's weird is it was it was permeated throughout the you know through throughout the community content creators it was really I mean it's for me it's kind of a it's it's a bit fascinating the the way the way they you know that it the message trickled down from leadership and then it was like some content creators like they got their marching orders and okay this is what we're going to talk about this week you know this is exactly that's exactly what happened yeah and it's just like you saw that yeah it was never about the quality of the games or you know it was it was about oh you know this is the future oh ma and and by the way Mao is not the the end all be all we said on this show it's arpo and I don't care like and that applies to you know even PlayStation talking about Mao on with PlayStation Plus like okay Ma Ma's just a number what does that number mean you know it's arpo we need you need to know what the average spend per user is if you don't know that what's what's the point of knowing the M then I mean you know if if you know if you and if you look at the revenue numbers you look at you know 500 million M on Xbox but yet they are either I I I forget the financials what the financials are they're either on par with PlayStation now who's got less ma that that should give you some you know some insight into how how those number that 500 million isn't necessarily adding up the way you think it is you know yeah just to clarify really quick it was just weird they were emphasizing um engagement numbers when it cames to single player games multiplayer that makes sense but how does how many times someone strung a guitar or something in a single player game indicate it its success what does that tell me anything about it oh 100 people a million people press the jump button a million people use the jetpack what does that tell me about the game success absolutely nothing it doesn't like what does that mean from a profitability standpoint did did did did a million a buttons or a million jumps lead to the game turning a profit exactly because um what's the game that they from that they shut down from Tango Gameworks uh highi rush high-fi rush yeah they they they literally made us put out the same statement the the engagement numbers about Hi-Fi rushed they literally said oh this this game had amazing engagement uh this game won all these Awards we're excited shut it down okay well I guess those engagement numbers weren't as important as as y'all thought because I guarantee you if that game would have stole a certain amount it would have stayed open some engagement numbers are not in especially in single player games are not this this meaningful figure that they try to make make people think no they're not and um and that's a by the way it's a great segue here at BG when you you mentioned s because this leads us to Concord um which look we we talked about it on Friday and um you know game logic had mentioned that you know he thought that maybe they should they should shut down Concord maybe consolidate the studio and the talent you know lend that Talent elsewhere to other Studios uh but I want to read the um uh because we found this out yesterday per the Playstation blog uh firewalk Studios game director Ryan Ellis wrote Concord fans you've been listening closely to your feedback since the launch of Concord on PlayStation 5 in PC and what and want to thank everyone who has enjoyed the journey aboard the Northstar your support in the passionate community that has grown around the game has meant the world to us however while many qualities of the experience resonate with players we also recognize that other aspects of the game and our L and our initial launch didn't land the way we intended therefore at this time we decided to take the game off line beginning September 6 2024 and explore options including those that will uh better reach our players while we determine the best path ahead Concord sales will cease immediately and will and we will begin to offer a full Ro excuse me a full refund which is Amazing by the way because I had an issue with Sony about a refund recently I I think their refund policies are caic I don't think it's very Pro consumer but that's another conversation so I think it's great they're doing the full refund so uh they're going to begin to offer a full refund for all Gamers who purchased the game for PS5 or PC if you purchase the game on PlayStation 5 from the PlayStation store or Playstation direct a refund will be issued back to original payment method customers who purchase from other Digital Store funds will also be refunded more information about refunds from Steam and epic can be found below um for customers who purchase a physical copy at the retail location outside of PlayStation directly please refer to the refund policy of the retailer you purchase from to obain your refund uh once refunded players will no longer have access to the game we'll keep you updated and thank you again to all the free Gunners who have joined us in the Concord Galaxy now we uh there was a report that came out that um about I think it was 10,000 I may have but it flip-flopped here 10,000 copies sold on PC and about 15,000 on on PS5 for about 25,000 when we did the BR rant on Friday night I looked at the Concord steam numbers they were about 160 something people playing I think it got as low as in the 20s if I'm not mistaken I have to have to pull that number again um I think it was uh where was it I think it was Game Shop is that reported the numbers here um all right can't find him or not to pull him back up again but to your point BG I mean in this case I mean and obviously like you know with with a with a with a a live service game like this obviously like we talk about like engagement matters but but sales too ex because this this game did retail for $40 didn't meet those expectations and Playstation is saying no we're we're not we're not going to do this but some of the conversation around this game and we talked about this last Friday on bra you know we kind of posed the question did did did PlayStation kind of send this thing out to die because there really wasn't a lot of marketing I don't think behind um behind this game and we kind of saw this with hell divers 2 until that game became a a lightning in the bottle moment for PlayStation and they started getting behind it uh mag's going to sell a sealed copy of Concord for $1,000 a piece geez um so it kind of begs the question I mean and then you know BG to Nate like like there was a lot of conversation the in the PlayStation Community like oh they shouldn't do life service games uh I don't necessarily agree with that I I think um I certainly understand a perspective of companies trying different things that they may not be good at and to to kind of add additive Revenue you know especially when you look at you know um when you look at the need to kind of expand the business per se um I can certainly understand trying to do that and hopefully I think my op I hope they learn from this um yeah that's the important part I hope they learned something from this but I I guess uh my question to you I'll go to you first BG and then anate um do you think they should have banded the I mean what what do you do you think they for it's kind of a two two or three-part question here do you think they kind of put Concord out there to die um do you think that they should re-evaluate their focus on live service games and um yeah go ahead I mean I don't I don't actually don't think they sent it out to die uh which might be worse because that means they actually believed that they were rolling it out right um but I I I don't believe there's nothing that could have saved this game um because I'm I'm a believer that a good game is the solution to everything right I don't I don't think the thing surrounding this game is what caused it to die um like people talk about oh the character design oh the you know people griffed about Dei oh it was the price I just don't think it's a good game and I think 99% of the time it it that's what these failures boil down to just not being a a a good game um because you can look at examples like we said hell hell divers 2 hell divers 2 is $40 it sold like 13 million copies so the it it can't it can't be the price um hell divers one was not popular at all I mean lifetime I think it sold around two million most people who played hell divers 2 never even knew there was a hell divers one hell divers 2 at the core is just a good game and that's why people bought it I don't think that other other things are factors but they won't be the determining reason of success or failure I think if you have a good game that is fun and people enjoy it and it is solid at the core all that other stuff gets tossed to the side all that other stuff is just secondary and won't matter as much and I just hope they don't become gunshy31 you can't say life service is the problem and then look at Hell divers once again and say because they're the Polar Opposites of each other right it's it's hell divers is their most successful fastest selling multiplayer game that they that they owned ever and this is the their greatest failure ever it's it's an amazing just like ju position like in the same year you have your biggest failure ever multiplayer and your biggest success ever so you should study each one and be like hm what made this one so beloved and successful and this one absolutely hated and an absolute failure you got you got to look at it and and and just and I was never in in favor of them creating like whatever the original plan was like 10 live service games I like that's I always felt like that that many was highly unnecessary I felt like listen two or three at Max would have been completely fine hey B real quick I I I don't mean to interrupt sorry but but to your point I I think that the reason why they were looking at like 10 or 12 I think originally was that this was new and I hate to say it's kind of like throwing [ __ ] on the wall and see what sticks yeah shotgun yeah yeah and I I definitely get that but the the the problem with that method is in between you don't really get to kind of analyze each one and learn if you're just just doing it all at once right you're just throwing everything at the wall you don't know which one of those things you know actually kind of works if they're not if you're not just doing it dig uh diligently and figuring out what actually works right it's just that that method just doesn't work in this in this situation where it's like it it's almost like the uh like when like some animals have have like babies and it's like well we have 10 of them because it's likely that seven of them are going to die in the wild like that's how they're treating the situation it's like that's how they're treating the situation it's like oh well we yeah we got to have a large nest because a bunch of them are going to die and it's like uh yeah I don't think you should do it like that you're not in the wild you're you're a development you're a publisher you know so you should be more strategic than than that and that's just not the not the right way to go about it yeah I think I think what's interesting too is you talking about like like hero Shooters and logic is not here this evening we're talking about this today you know and and and maybe think about what what iara said about like Sony should just get out of live service people are getting tired of paying um you know season passes and skins and I'm wondering like if we look if we think about I think I truly think hell divers 2 was kind of a lightning in the bottle of the moment for them like they I didn't I to your point BG I mean I mean I I was aware of Hell divers the first one but I when I heard hell divers too I was like oh that's interesting you know like I wasn't game I was anticipating a a sequel to and it just caught it just caught Wildfire I mean remember the servers were down too many people were trying to get in I mean that was I mean I don't even think Sony was expecting that I mean I could be wrong maybe they had some data internally that that pointed to that uh but but I don't think that's necessarily the case but but anyhow um but also made me think about like what I said Mikey bar said the gamers are tired of of paying for season passes and and skins and you know and I think there's only so much room for these types of games I mean you you may remember this spe you remember like everyone was like live service games are the future you remember that and everyone's like you know like if it's not like a pubg or or fortnite you know it's not like you got to have a live service game I mean I there's there's always so many hours in the day there's always so much time and money people have to dedicate to a life service game I I I honestly think a in my opinion um that this might be a tough nut to crack and not just for maybe PlayStation but for others too because I mean maybe there is that fatigue that that iar was talking about maybe not fatigue per se as much as they are there are already Investments of time and money that Gamers have in other games like pubg like Call of Duty like um fortnite um you know and and like OverWatch you talk about hero Shooters like uh Rainbow Six Siege H how do you pull those people away I think that's a tough I think that's a tough proposition like what is it about your game that makes it unique and I think maybe this is the issue with Concord what is it about the Concord that was unique that other games didn't offer what was the hook I know they initially sold it as pay $40 now and you'll get free content later on and you won't have to pay for for season pass and I understand that value proposition but I just don't think the hook was there up front and and maybe just maybe that $40 price point in my opinion maybe that was um maybe more so on the PC side of things maybe on the PC side that was something that was maybe a potential roadblock where people like ah you know I don't know do I want to spend $40 for a game that might not get um a users and I think one of the problems is I mean for one Concord took way too long um and it was kind of CH Trend chasing um because the multiplayer scene especially is very yeah uh it it it moves very quickly right hero hero shooters were were beloved and praised if you announced a hero shooter six years ago you that was a great thing even now even if you're somebody who a develop ER that people trust to make a multiplayer if you announce the hero shooter now people are like another hero shooter yeah you know so and that H in in six years is is kind of a quick time when you think about it aside from Marvel Rivals but Marvel Rivals is a cheat code because it's Marvel characters right so that's a little bit different so you can't chase a trend in a in a in a in an environment that that changes very quickly you can you can take six seven you know maybe even eight years to make a single player game and still trust that when it comes out it can still be like relevant right it may be may feel dated in some ways but it it's it it could still be played and and it's going to feel relevant because it just doesn't change the single player Market doesn't change the way you know the the multiplayer Market does so that that whole thing was just a a bad mistake and doing and like you said yeah it does have to be unique um and somebody said this right it makes a lot of sense like the problem like with with how PlayStation is kind of pursuing the games as a service um effort is they're trying to make a live service game that makes a lot of money right when what you're kind of supposed to do is just make a multiplayer game that happens to all make a lot of money you get what I'm saying like when you look at other these other like fortnite fortnite was a complete mistake it was a complete accident a lot of these live service games were not made with the the successful ones were not made with this you know this scheme that oh this is going to make billions of dollars most of them weren't they just made the game and and that incidentally happened it just happened happened fortnite is the most is literally the the the most successful mistake in gaming ever they they literally like most people know the story that that was supposed to be the tower a tower defense game the single player and then the the the the Battle Royale was just something they they just decided to do on the side like e throw this out there that that's how fortnite became fortnite most people don't even remember that it was that was not the main the main course of the game that whole Battle Royale was just some accident so you you you can't like just make a multiplayer game with with that like billion dollar intention that that just comes with that comes with it you know what I'm saying they're they're going about it they're chasing the wrong thing you just make the good try to make the really good unique game and the other may come with it yeah and I think you know uh one thing that kind of you talk about like chasing Trends and I think Shan Len's kind of talked about you know like the the the challenges of of growing of of growing the industry right and he's like look there's only so many people that want to play GTA there only so many people that want to play Call of Duty like there's only five night and it's just like I say this like people like oh consoles are dying well look guys like it's only a finite group of people that want to play video games period whether it's on mobile via Cloud you know so this idea of oh you know there's you know 50 million Gamers that that are out there that aren't aware that they're Gamers like I I don't buy it because those Vehicles exist today where they can onboard via Cloud console PC Mobile uh handheld I'm sorry handheld devices um and and to like and go back to like kind of the gladden's point where you know it's like he's like you know there's only a finite group of people that want these types of games and we know this because you know you see it every year and maybe the way to grow the industry is to to to create games that are going to potentially appeal to a different type of gamer and something I think like you just said BG that that's unique and um I just don't think that that was that was there with Concord from what I what I saw I didn't I just to be transparent I didn't play the game um I did watch streams and I watched and I read some of the uh I watched some of the videos on YouTube um but I didn't think it was it just didn't seem like it was offering anything different anything that would that was different from what was already out there it wasn't very compelling yeah yeah there wasn't a compelling reason why someone should spend in my opinion um $40 and one thing we also have to remember too and I I I saw this article I I remember like there's always the conversation around live service games of oh this game needs to have like you know 200,000 you know monthly active users to be competitive or or to to be successful um great article in games industry. Biz about this uh they interviewed um and uh actually the title of the article was how many players does a game like Concord need to survive um uh Pierre's Harding rolls RS I think it is he's anyway he's he's a video he's a analyst and aier analyst and uh they asked him that question he's like he he says there's so many variables in play here that it's not really possible to answer this for for One gaming might be 200,000 monthly active users for another 2 million um he says that there a bunch of different factors that could affect whether a game lives or dies R&D investment both before and after launch salaries and other Staffing costs marketing spend infrastructure and Service delivery costs said the games uh business model in this monetization strategy platform support financing repayments licensing cost publishing costs the list goes on and on says across all these elements not one game or games company is exactly the same so the break aing number will will differ as a result I think that's very important because I think we often lump what success is into one specific idea or number and those things can just vary drastically depending uh depending on the things that depending on some of the things that he just mentioned here um but I I I do want to ask uh you and Nate and BG this question too with with Sony's live service is something that uh I was talking to logic about I think he may mentioned on Friday I know think he's mentioned it on Twitter but he he actually thinks they should can or or cancel Marathon what are your thoughts about that gentlemen like do you think Bungie they should scrap Marathon here because marathon is a extraction shooter and I we haven't seen a lot of marathon but I again I I I wonder if that's maybe another case of trying to get into a market that where I don't know how popular extraction Shooters are these days um but do you guys think that that's a game they should probably take a look at and say maybe maybe we need to go maybe we need to keep put this one on the on the back burner as well I would not be mad at that I mean I I honestly like would I like to actually see how it plays an actual game play before that happens absolutely um I think I think I would be able to look at that game like just some just five minutes of game play I feel like I can probably look at and be like oh that's not that's going to work that's not going to work I don't think I need I don't think any of us need to see much to know if it'll be this this failure or success like I I don't think most of this stuff is like very nebulous or rocket science you know like I think we can see sometimes we can't like necessarily we're we're not always necessarily sure if if a game is going to be how successful it's going to be but I think we can always know if it's going to be a failure at least you know I think guaranteed failures are are pretty clear so I would at least like to see it but if they canceled it before before we see it I'm like okay get get it out the way now right um because I mean from what we hear the rumors behind the scenes people aren't necessarily uh crazy about it so I I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't be mad if if if they if they did I mean I I think like and going back to firewalk real quick listen I don't know what their future is layoffs are definitely guaranteed like expect layoffs because nobody nobody like just just drops the the biggest failure of all time and nobody gets laid off that's going to happen uh I don't know if they get to make another game but listen this is this probably isn't going to happen but I think they should become like a I don't know like a satellite Studio or support studio um at best they get another chance to make a smaller game smaller budget I don't know but yeah Marathon I wouldn't be mad at that being cancelled [Music] um yeah I think they I think they got to re-evaluate I think they need somebody to really just somebody kind of somebody that just has a connection to the to the gamers to know what the the The Gamers want right just a just a line just a direct line to somebody who's connected with just the what what multiplayer is right now and this is I have a theory I've been telling people this Theory I have a I think mult live service games are going to have a like Back to the Future moment where they go where essentially how all these live service games are made now I feel like they're going to go they're going to go back in terms of design like back to like PS3 360 of how like multiplayer games are designed they're going to have the live service model but how they're made are going to are is going to go back to that type of design that's my theory because I think a lot of the I think a lot of them are just gonna has a big shot what's up you think splitgate 2 has a big shot then what's up what's up M yeah I think I think games like splitgate 2 and Space Marine 2 are are going to be indicators of you know if that's really going to happen because those are those type of games that I'm yeah talking about yeah yeah I mean yeah I could I could see that happening like because I think right now it's live service games we see like the Main Stays that are there the ones that like are at the top the top 10 most played games on every platform or games that have are have been out for five years or more and so there there's a huge investment that Gamers feel like they are uh giving up if they stop playing those games for something new and and that's why you may see a game that might actually be a decent playing game work regardless if it's a hero shooter looter shooter whatever but it's like it's hard to get people to the game can play well but it's hard to get people to say I'm I've invested x amount of dollars and I got all these different skins and and and all this extra content in this other game I'm going to give all that up and stop playing that on a daily weekly basis to go play this new thing it has to have something that for this generation of Gamers that they it still has the live service model but it's something that they haven't really experienced yet so I I I think I think a lot of these games that like like I think Marvel Rivals will do fine it it'll have his Niche because it's a it's a a solid playing hero shooter with Marvel characters if it did not have Marvel characters it would be cooked but because they took the OverWatch format and and nailed it to a te and they put Marvel characters in there it's going to find his Niche it's not going to be more popular than OverWatch but it will find its Niche but for for you to get into that like that Upper Crust that that s tier of live service games you got to provide something that's not on the market right now and you got to do it in a way where the foundation of the game is something that's familiar to Gamers yet it's doing something that those other games aren't doing and it's done and executed a in a way that's so good that they can it can override their their mentality that like man I spent so much money in for fortnite I can't I can't stop playing this game like I'm going play this other one for a little while but I'm still going back to fortnite I'm still going back to Call of Duty like they got you got to find a way to override that and so there's got to be something different that provides that CU all the big ones in the market they're they're not all the same so so you have to find your your lane and and execute on it well and unfortunately what we're seeing right now are multiplayer games that come out and they could be decent in gameplay but they have like some major weaknesses that just like turn people off they're not going to play it I mean Halo infinite comes to mind well I mean that one was no content well well but that's the thing it was a weakness for it I the gameplay mechanics thought multiplayer was solid oh yeah solid it was a solid Halo game yeah but I mean I mean they they stuck The Landing with with the gameplay mechanics they being 343i but but everything else outside of that was was sorely lacking and it didn't really want me to like like I I didn't care to come back you know I I appreciated it for what it was because it's something that I could enjoy and not have and not have to worry about like a lot of time commitment per se am I going to miss out on this new season or this new weapon or this new you know whatever the case is right um but I I don't disagree with you uh slim I think it's it's it's hard and I think this was kind of what iara was saying I think it's hard to Pride people away from some of these these games that have been like you said for around five or six years yeah um so you know and then like we talk about marathon it's crazy that we're even having a conversation around like should bun Bungie of all like Bungie giving its its history its pedigree um you should they cancel Marathon I mean you know marathon's extraction shooter I mean and I don't know how big you would probably you would know more better than better than me SLO but I mean I I know I I think uh escape from tarov is kind of popular I think yeah it's the most popular extraction shooter there is I mean it's like it's one of those games that's so big that like it doesn't even need the it doesn't even need steam like it's not in Steam and it's still got a ton of players but how many people I mean like you know and you know what I saw like like over half a million concurrent it it averages so or like somewhere in that that range it's not like it's not as popular as like valerant but when it comes to asra Shooters one they're not all that big on consoles compared to PC on PC you see a far bigger numbers for those kind of games but yeah uh escape from tof is the is the king in in that specific subg genre uh I I've always kind of felt like I didn't think attraction Shooters would be that big whereas it's like there's there's space for so many of them to survive and we're seeing games get cancelled like uh Ubisoft canceled the division Heartland that was a distraction shooter um Arc Raiders was was pivoted into an instraction shooter and it seems from what I heard they pivoted away from that now so yeah I don't really think they they are really going to be a big thing that's going to catch on and Marathon anytime I see or hear about a game where internally they keep changing what the game design is what the actual genre is supposed to be in I aut automatically just like I've seen people say like oh this is it was this and that was that like we saw that with Gotham knights we saw that with so many different games and it just never works out it it never works out in the end they never have enough time to really flesh out what that game design is going to be so I yeah I don't really have a lot of faith in what Marathon can do that's crazy you know that that just blows my mind considering it's bungee that we're even saying that that we don't have faith in well we we haven't had Fai I take that back we haven't had faith Bungie with with Destiny with some of the stuff they did with Destiny but um exactly yeah but I uh BG someone's I guess a little upset in the in the I don't know upset maybe's maybe an overstatement but big box doesn't like your take about games going backwards or something I think you said multiplayer games I don't know if you know who that is but I mean they I just feel like I mean they might not understand the point because I I kind of agree with what BG was saying in that regard um like there's been something lost right and like I said this is bigger for me right because I like my time heavy in multiplayer like I'm the type like if you can get me to play it it's probably popping like it's probably some legendary stuff cuz I don't really play multiplayer like that right but I was literally addicted to OG Modern Warfare 2 Black Ops 1 Modern Warfare 3 so on and so forth right um in Wake of a lot of these games being designed first as Battle Royale and a lot of other stuff I feel like a lot of Design Elements kind of suffered um for the traditional uh the more traditional multiplayer uh which I think is more so like what BG is has mentioned that he was looking for right like I I want to jump in a game you know what I'm saying 6v6 go heads up on a well-designed map decent spawn points and just and have a good ping you know what I mean like you got to get the core of it great first right and that that's what I felt like they did back then like The Kill streaks weren't over the top they weren't doing nothing crazy that but all of them worked they were balanced like there there's a certain element to the way everything was designed and the way not only the the weapons and and the kill streaks but also the map design right um it's not that all of them are like that but it's like the only ones that seem to be thriving and stuff like that right now is like slowo mention like valerant right but valerant again is a different type of shooter it's you know basically Counter Strike with powers like it it's that twitch-based you know High highspeed uh shooter that thrives on something like PC you know even though they're coming uh to consoles now and I hear it plays okay um but I think that's more so what he means that I'm not sure it depends on when the person who's even commenting on they played or whatnot but I mean that's personally what I feel that BG's talking about cuz I feel like some of that that Modern Warfare 2 sauce was lost and cod hasn't been able to get that back in a very long time yeah um what I'm speaking to is pretty much what Nate described is there has been a there's a demographic of Gamers who like multiplayer right but have fell off of multiplayer specifically for the reason that they're not being made the way they're they used to and a lot of people believe a lot of people believe that multiplayer is being made the way it is is now because that's what all Gamers want and I think that's very wrong and incorrect I think there was just a a change and a and a trend and Battle Royale became extremely popular cool but that doesn't mean people didn't want the old traditional way of also playing multiplayer either that nobody just said abandon that so I think a so I think they a lot of people look at it is like oh that this is the only thing people want when I don't believe that's the case so you have this this vacuum this this huge gap in the industry um where nobody is like fulfilling the need for that traditional style of multiplayer and you have this this this huge Market of gamers that would love to play one but have nowhere to go and I think when somebody starts or a a group of developers start tapping into that market of and satisfying those Gamers they are going to find a huge player base a huge play player base that's what I believe yeah and and by the way I think big box PG is BG has said this earlier in the show it's his theory he's not saying that this is the case he I think he he preface it with the theory um and I understand your theory on Star Citizen because i' I've heard other people talk about how star Star Citizen has the potential to influence the future of multiplayer gaming giving its what I would say ambitious scope um I know that Star Citizen H you know allows for um I guess more uh I I'm looking for like interconnected multiplayer experiences where um you know you can connect like with thousands of players in a in know in this interact with thousands of players like in a persistent World um yeah maybe I maybe that's where it's going um we we'll see if they can ever get to 1.0 well I mean yeah I mean that thing been in beta for that's kind of the running joke um you know but it's never coming out of beta yeah I mean much money yeah it's never coming out they I if I recall correctly there was uh there's this so the game engine is running off like a modified version of of krych cry engine and there's this whole thing going back and forth between the developers of Star Citizen and prch where they haven't been paid royalties and they will get paid royalties once it goes out of beta and becomes a full-fledged release and so they ain't really trying to like I think cry Tech tried to take them to court for that because they like they they at some point realized they're never really going to try to take it out of beta so they're never really going to get like the royalties for for using the game engine so it's just yeah yeah it's never going to go out of beta but I I don't I mean I don't know a ton of people that play Star Star Citizen like that anyway I don't know if that's the future um if it wouldn't be Star Citizen itself it would be someone else kind of taking their idea and riing off of it and and actually marketing it in a way where more people would would be into it but I do think that like there's more I think a lot of these Publishers they're chasing uh a very specific market and and and to to BG's Point like there are gamers who want to play multiplayer games but they're not interested in playing a multiplayer game where it's a battle royale or it's a version of the Battle Royale or it's a version of OverWatch like they don't they don't really care for that you know and live service has it's not all one thing like the first descendant is not anywhere near the same type of game as say valerant because valerant is purely PVP and the first descendant is purely PVE first people who play a game like the first descender the people who play Destiny Warframe the division they like they like looters they like the grind for looting the grind to build a character and and grinding for specific materials or you know drop rates for particular weapons and gear you could that's a live still a live service game but there are plenty of Gamers that's like I'm not doing the same that repetition of the same thing over and over and over again I I I can't rock with that I'm not doing that like I could do that in say uh a small arena with but you know particular characters and abilities and going up against other players I can do that because that's still Dynamic enough for that each match isn't the same but gamers are different and there's space for those other Gamers it's just that Publishers see the big numbers from the games that are always at the top your fortnite your Call of Duty your your Grand Theft Auto 5 online and they just say yeah we just gonna keep doing that or keep trying to do trying I was gonna say trying trying because they're not because they're not succeeding they look at ex defiant and ex defiant had like what was it like three million players in this first week and it it looked like it was going to do well for a while and now like it's kind of bottoming out and I think it's harder to keep the players than to get them because keeping those players again goes to and especially with exify because those Ubisoft devs as we saw from a lot of reporting we basically looking at Call of Duty and was like okay see what they just did let's do that let's do our version of That So you you're trying to tap into the Call of Duty Community which if you can get a segment a percentage of them to permanently stay with you then yeah you got a game that will kind of have some longevity but as we see as we get closer to to call of dut to Black Ops 6 launching that Community is like you was cool for a while but I'mma go back to my main [ __ ] and so there we have it like this it's as we get into October I think X defin concurrent players is gonna get even lower because you you made your game way too close to what Call of Duty is and it doesn't play as good as Call of Duty it just doesn't so yeah no I I I 100% agree with uh like you said where you coming from uh I think people are underestimating that that Niche that you guys were talking about that that set of multiplayer Gamers that's not being catered to because they're constantly chasing like you said those top five to eight you know maybe 10 games and it's like you're you're not going to pull anybody's investment off of that like like I could tell people that now from years ago just from World of Warcraft like I I played probably 80 90 100 MMOs uh throughout my my time in school and so on and so forth and I I remember being shocked like I met this older woman and she was like when she found out I built PC she was like oh I want I've been trying I've been saving up to build a PC and I was like oh man you know you you play on PC like what do you play and she was like no I just I just want a PC I want to build a new pc so I can play WoW like better like that was it nothing W Ian you can play WoW on on a freaking like trash laptop now it's just like crazy yeah but that's what I'm saying like she just that one thing was all she wanted and I know somebody the same way who stream she's been a streamer for eight nine years now if not longer 98% of that girl's play time is Apex Legends that's it like she might play fortnite with her kids one night or something but other than that it's Apex Legends that's why I'm like these are the people you're trying to rip away from these games and in the meantime these games are not sitting on their hands they're evolving like I I don't even play Apex but I know Apex came out with like a 3v3 mode and like they're working on some 6v6 stuff and some like Search and Destroy stuff and all these other things so while you're trying to build a game from scratch they're capitalizing and you know keeping their players invested and coming out with new skins and doing things bigger and better same thing with fortnite same thing with valerent so on and so forth and it's like you're not going to take someone away from that and the same thing with GTA no one challenges GTA anymore you know why because they literally cannot do it it's it you're talking about the game that has charted since PS3 like and they're going to make they're going to invest enough money in GTA 6 to make sure it does the same thing like like that is why we're hearing like it's probably the most expensive game ever that's like we're talking about over a billion dollars in investment because of the tech and the amount of Manpower and everything they're putting into this game and they realize what they do right and every time every time you know even if you don't like him every time Rockstar puts something out uh and it sucks that it's taken so long in between their games but every time they put something out it's special right like it it it just takes the industry by storm it does something new something that's never really been done before you know a level of polish that is usually unheard of with very very few exceptions in the industry like this is who you're competing against like I said these people that are in it already and the people who are who are not and just like World of Warcraft like I mentioned earlier one of the things I'll tell you that World of Warcraft used to do and a lot of people didn't know notice right every time a game used to come out that we would be excited about a new game and it would have a thing right uh wow used to just look at whatever that hot thing was name it something else and put it in their next update before your game came out yeah like yeah everyone everyone all the top like developers with their top games and live service do that remember when uh a battlefield dropped uh and they had the tornado in the map and I was like oh cool a tornado fortnite threw a tornado in their map just everyone everyone does this stuff um Call of Duty a decade ago like the the primary people who were playing the game they were all primarily playing the multiplayer now two-thirds of the Call of Duty players are in war zone which is Battle Royale and why did they do that because Battle Royale became big and they said oh well we're starting to lose players to these Apex Legends let's go ahead and Implement our own Battle Royale and and get people here and keep people here so if that's what the new thing is we gonna add the new thing in here and we're going to do our spin on it and we got enough bodies to implement it better than some little small studio in the in their garage coming out with a new thing oh that's hot all right we going to take that we going to put it over here too and so exactly it's it's uh it is it is how this works you know and you just you can't just think that you're going to take those top guys down but you can still have your own Niche you can still come out with something that's Innovative and cool and different and people will be into it like right now um damn what is it called deadlock uh valves game you know it's got like 100k people playing it right now and that game's not even officially out and and for a long time they tried to act like it didn't exist but they were giving people access to it to play it and it's you know I it ain't for me but I I get it it's got yeah it's a bit different and and that's what you need you need something that's going to be a bit different that may not be something that's easily implemented and but you know you just put a tornado on the map you know fortnite's just gonna put a tornado too thanks exactly thanks for the idea buddy that's I said I don't think people really understood that disappointment with the way people were with factions right because again as someone who does not I'm not I never claimed to be the big multiplayer dude ever right but out of my time when I was heavy on COD from like Modern Warfare 2 to Black Ops 4 and then I like basically cut it off cold turkey because it started being a mess um but when the factions came out I was like oh this is different cuz I even told like my girlfriend was into it first and and she she has like 12 1300 hours in factions like she was crazy hyped for it we met a ton of people she was streaming on Twitch at the time it went big right um but I finally started playing it and it's just like you said it's something different nothing I was so excited because I know how different the the multiplayer is in that and the flow is different like everything like I don't think people quite get it when you're cuz we always talk about stuff from a design perspective and a lot of people don't really get it but well design and combination of a design perspective and a gameplay perspective right when the flow is different in a map you know what I'm saying like like nothing else plays like factions like nothing like so you had your Niche and and here's the wild thing right and I said this as soon as I saw Neil jman show up on on Jeff Key's boring as uh um summer game Fest two years ago the there one more thing was a bunch of like concept art for factions and I'm just sitting here like this was your one more thing a still picture and so and but then when Neil was all talking about we we're do we're doing grander bigger maps and all this the stuff and I'm like I you know I ain't never been a factions dude but I I listen very well and when I listen to people who play factions all the stuff that he was talking about was nothing that they care about I'm just sitting just like why don't you just give them what the same game play they the same game design they had before same area maps with The Last of Us Part Two gameplay and better visuals that seems like that's all they wanted and you could have just did that but instead you tried to turn into something else then realize oh after Bungie told you you GNA have to dedicate your entire Studio to this oh we don't want to do that then never mind we'll cancel it and it's just like you could you didn't have to be here you didn't have to walk down this road you could have just made what people wanted and it just seems like it's too many developers doing what they think people should want instead of doing what people actually want and I mean like Concord bro them characters is hideous and I I look I played the game and I ain't have a problem with the game play and and never do the way characters look make me decide whether I'm going to play a game or not but I'm also not every single gamer on the planet and so there's large segments of Gamers clearly large segments of Gamers never played Concord because the game didn't sell for [ __ ] and you got all these people who are just like they look at the game they're like oh hell no they don't know what the gameplay look like they don't know they they think it's OverWatch you don't play like OverWatch they don't care because YY looks like a blue green rat and they don't want to plays a blue green rat freaking you got a fat Indian kid who needs to get to have a diet and he looks Goofy and a nothing wrong with being overweight but can you at least give the dude some clothes to make him look like like he he at least belongs here instead of looking like he he like instead looking like his parents dressed him it's just like what the what are yall doing and it's just it's this mentality some of these developers have where it's like oh we're so put the pronouns in there which I don't care about the Dei [ __ ] like those people are weirdos but it's just like let's put the pronouns in there and let let let's have all these characters covered up and let and just like do you do you not like pay attention people care about yeah it's just like do you not care about what people play about care about because people want to see and whether you you think it's wrong or not what do you you feel uncomfortable with it or not they want to see a half naked with big titties and a fat ass killing people in the game even if it's first person they don't care they want that they want to see a dude with a trench coat double shotguns blowing people's heads off that's what they put in OverWatch yeah you don't see the unattractive unappealing characters marketed and OverWatch those people are in the background those are actually good characters but don't nobody M the the mains of those characters didn't get overwatched to play as roadhog they got overwatched when they saw Tracer at one point all I thought was Tracer and Widowmaker because that's all I seen exactly after you get the game and you plays those characters for I think you say damn this Ro hawk guy keeps chain like whipping me with a chain and killing my entire Squad maybe I should go play as Ro Hawk you ain't never seen roog on any Mark than for OverWatch because roog looks freak he's he looks like he's a he's a half- naked fat guy with with like a pig tattoo on his belly button ain't nobody trying to look at that yeah and I'm not super critical um I'm not super critical about like you know the looks you know the rather the attractiveness on on characters right you know I know that's a big thing in games ball they're not attractive is a big you know discourse right now oh they're not a CRA I personally don't care about that that's you know that doesn't matter but I do like the characters to look cool you know what I'm saying exactly look Sleek right you don't got to be attractive but like the like when you look do look at some of the the characters in Concord it's like is it's it's like somebody who can't dress you know it's just it's just weird bro it's it's like you're a game developer you could put anything it's not like there's a limited wardrobe you could put anything on these characters but you dress [Music] them you dressed them like like a junior high school kid going through a weird phase you know what I'm saying like like bro just make them look cool they can look they can look they can look strange right they can look alternative but they could you could still make them look cool and those designs just just don't yeah look that that character YY looks like she lives under a bridge like she she don't look like she she looked like she looks like if if she wasn't a blue green alien and she was a human being dressed like that walking up to me I'm expecting her to ask me for some money like like that's the way the character looks that's but I mean like it's just weird that you have a game that's been in development for a number of years and we understand how like these characters like the initial game design won't be the the final look it goes through many different iterations how did you end here like how how is this the last game final game design for this character it's like they don't know what the community cares about largely and I'm not like like I played that game I played bleed next you know I don't really care about how the characters look I care about how the game plays and if and if if I'm having fun with it then I'm fine but I'm not everyone clearly and there's a lot of people who do care about that and it's like you can't just ignore that segment of people simply because well I mean that's not how I I feel about things I I I want I want to make a character that just you know looks like this and and what's wrong with that you know ain't nothing really wrong with that but you can't Market that and if you can't Market it like this is a business if you can't Market it you can't sell it and frankly I mean I think fair game from if Fair game's characters look like that teaser trailer I don't think they're going to have that problem but marketing wise Sony has marketed fair games the same way they marketed Concord they gave us the teaser trailer and that was it and then with Concord they gave us a teaser trailer with a sandwich and a spaceship and didn't no one know what the heck met and then they spent over a year saying nothing and then out of nowhere they hit us with like this really expensive CG trailer that no one cared about and no one was really into what the heck was going on and then showed game play that didn't quite land with people because they didn't know what the actual game was supposed to be and that's not how you Market these kind of games fair games is getting the same damn treatment they showed us a teaser mus trailer looked like it was like payday or something payday or something right I don't know like like a team based PVP payday I guess I mean we don't know because we don't have gameplay and they said ja it is yet yeah they haven't said Jack since then they showed at the same time they showed Concord and they said nothing they're doing the same exact marketing they did for for game fair game right you know who who's who's been living off of the the uh The Cloud of hey I made Assassin's Creed I'm like I don't know how I don't know if there's anybody else who's like seen more promotion and success off of other people's backs than Jade Raymond I ain't gonna lie to you man like yeah yeah well at one point they were at one point they were I thought it was kind of odd as what you bitching that with Jade Raymond cuz like I was all into like Assassin's Creed originally and stuff and then when they started kind of she was going from like Studio to Studio to studio and like but like you said the promotion was like look here she is it's Jade Raymond and I was like I feel like they're trying to make her like the female coima like they want me to like care about her the person like look who's working on this game and it's like but I was like but you haven't earned that yet like who like who are you like you know what I mean like I thought that was a weird thing so yeah I agree like the promotion for her from each Studio has been crazy for someone who essentially only ever really put out uh Assassin's Creed and then all her other stuff has been canceled so like yeah because the way it just seems is like she's never the she it just seems like she's the one that's around the the success she's not the cause of it you know what I'm saying like yeah's just he's just arounded and it's like if if you are who they kind of want to say you are I feel like you would just have that credit I I just you know because otherwise if you have done all actually accomplished all these things then why does it seem like you just haven't actually got actually gotten those accolades whether by your peers or like just by The Gamers it just doesn't seem like it's you maybe we could be wrong but it doesn't actually seem like it's you yeah I agree yeah to to you guys Point earlier about the the the the character design though right going to one of our favorite games uh slow-mo uh Borderlands I have no idea what zero looks like but he's one of my most played characters and I know he's a badass that like he looks dope he plays fire like he has unique set of skills that I always want to play I've created probably 15 builds off of them you know what I mean so it's like the same thing for even even though people like I said people got a whole lot of hate for three right three gameplay-wise was still fire uh and a lot of the characters on there were dope the way their mechanics worked they looked cool even like the the I can't I can never remember her actual class name but the mech the mechamancer or whatever she was the mech something like that mechromancer yeah mechromancer there you go yeah like I love that class I went from like what the heck is this to like yo this is so dope like I could do this Co-op build I can make him really tiny and run around and just destroy people like like that's what I'm talking about like it like I wanted to play all of those characters and that's what you want to give when you see that stuff right until you guys this point even when it's first person right cuz that's first person and even though I never played Apex Legends but that's mainly because I just wasn't into the first person uh Battle Royale vibe that they were putting down but the one thing I can tell you about that game that I have seen that I still thought was dope was a lot of the character designs and I've seen because I watched my friend play for a couple years I've seen a ton of the skins and then they have legendary skins and some of the other stuff they would do and all I could tell you I couldn't name a single character in that game but I can tell you a lot of the skins that people love to go for in that game are legendary they look amazing and they make people want to play that character like they look fire so it's like that's a really important thing an element when you're designing a game uh it's right next to what I mean my personal favorite the power fantasy um which is something that Borderlands does really well as well making you feel strong but you also got to look the part too which is again why they have the skin system the way that they do in Borderlands and what was the first thing when somebody hops in a game and sees you with a skin they don't have you got to copy it at where'd you get that like people want to know immediately you know because they know that can see that even though they can't see it they know when they go into the menu system or I'm looking at them I'm seeing this dope skin that they got that's mad rare from doing like this crazy hard boss or something that's what you want people to feel like you want to give people a reason and I feel like with in concord's case I never had a reason at all uh to play it to be interested in it the most I was interested in it was that that trailer that they put out before that was CGI and I was like this is exactly why I don't trust CGI like and I hate CGI trailers because again it gave me this certain vibe that the game was going to have and I was like oh man this is about to be like some single player Guardians of the Galaxy go crazy with it like all right we about to about to go crazy what is this this looks crazy and then I found out what it was and I was like oh yeah I'm good on that that was it that was the end of my yeah and also with Concord the the one concept of the game that's that's unique and different that's Innovative is the whole my crew system and so the the way it works is you pick a character and then when you die you can then choose another character and that character that you had previously passes on a passive ability or skill to the next character and you can kind of like based upon the passive abilities of of the entire roster create your own crew where by like say halfway through the Gang you could be having a character that has like less recoil when they shoot uh a longer damage range faster reloads stuff like that and it's just like that's a that's a bit different in a hero shooter than what other hero Shooters are doing when they had the betas they did not explain this well at all they they they had it all explained in like text that no one was going to read they didn't have a tutorial in the betas so as tutorial should they should have been like walking people through how to play the game I literally played both betas and did not know that is what the uh what was a mechanic in the games that I was playing until someone told me and I'm like that's a failure on the developers part for me playing your game and not knowing what these things mean because you didn't find a way to actually make it so that the the the before the gamer even gets into the game they understand that now compare that to frag Punk which I played that beta Fred Punk is essentially valerant with a card system but you can't even play into a single match until you do that tutorial phase where you actually see what the how the controls are like you see basically it's literally valerant like it's just no different than valerin but then they show you the card system and you have to actually do the card system to progress further in the tutorial to didn't actually get into matches so whether like even if you got the kind of gamer that doesn't quite pay attention and that's not going to sit there and read through all of your hints and tips you know that's like there's long list of crap for them to even get into a match they have to know how this work and actually play it and use it and for them to not even do any of that but then you have tutorials in the final release I'm like well it's too late because you got a game that's that's that's not free to play it's a unfr cost to it and the people who played the beta didn't know you had these mechanics maybe they would have liked that stuff you don't know because you didn't tell them yeah exactly well gentlemen um I do need to wrap up on that note um it's 11:30 I have to get up early tomorrow morning so um but first of all big shout out to everyone in the live chat thanks uh thank you so much for joining this evening please hit that like button if you if you haven't done so already uh like And subscribe or I already said like but geez I'm tired um if you like the content here tonight please consider subscribing hitting the Bell notification so you're alerted when we go live uh I want to thank our two guests this evening uh annate who's with us on Friday as well Nate thanks for coming back really appreciate as always man yeah uh looking to get your uh your thoughts on Space Marine 2 um may have you come back on the show next week to discuss that as well uh also big shout out to BG BG uh thank you for joining us again I know was I I appreciate you answered the call and it was kind of a last minute today but uh meant to reach out to you earlier in the week and just escaped my mind unfortunately um but thank you for joining us again uh I don't know if you want to be found BG if you want to plug your channel let everyone that can find you uh please do so yeah you know broken games HDR um and weapon wheel is on Sundays thanks being bro absolutely man anytime anytime and uh slobo great seeing you we've missed you you're uh your buddy your Sidekick Forte was on last Friday so always great to see you man oh he was yeah he was on up good good for Forte you know I never get to talk to him you know even though we got stuff that we need to handle you know he just he just you know pops up and if you say there's a p you know what that's what I need to do I need to in order to get Forte to talk to him I need to create like fake podcast and just like throw it out there and and he'll he'll pop up then you know that that's how I'll I'll do it in the future yeah like what is uh he he's been like Mia I think he's playing uh EA Sports college football right now that's what he's been doing that's what he's been doing playing a lot of EA college sports so you got a show tomorrow slowo uh plug DPS yeah PS Channel damag per second podcast uh we got our own channel the the the show is uh only on there now it's not on our slow-mo backs slap and gaming Forte channels now so um yeah yeah come check us out tomorrow 9:00 P p.m. Easter Standard Time uh we're going to have a good time Forte will be there uh he'll be hosting so expect typos everywhere uh expect uh the audio to not work correctly initially you know just things I want to warn people of time we'll get it figured out but you know it's it's typical Forte sh no man may not defend himself but uh uh by the way slmo if you haven't um read the news story about the Washington Commander VP of content check it out the commander what VP of content vice president of content he got caught on video saying some dumb [ __ ] and now it's been suspended oh it's bad oh you got to send that to me I gotta see that it's on ESPN it's it's yeah he he was caught um he he uh he was videotaped on a apparent date this journalist like set him up kind of and asked them very pointed questions and the idiot answered these questions very honestly and he got himself in trouble he basically accused Jerry Jones of being uh that he thinks uh Jerry Jones really runs the NFL and he thinks that Jerry Jones hate G hates gay people and black people whoa yeah he also he also said that some players are dumb as hell and some who are smart don't stay that way after getting hit in the head too many times this is all on video well I mean uh but by the way shock him to say those things over from the Dan snd era by the way wait a minute he is oh well that he's been there he's been he's been vice president of content for four years yeah Harris needs to get rid of everybody that used to be a Dan s or employee just just get rid of all of them yeah exactly yeah get rid of them all so uh but yeah anyhow uh great show gentlemen thank you again to Our Guest this evening BG and anate and slowmo always a pleasure thank you for joining us this evening and and uh I may do a br rant this so this weekend maybe Friday maybe Friday um uh there's some other news that we can get to this evening that I do want to discuss um but give me a follow on X or Twitter whatever you want to call it bore podcast best way to support the channel though or not support the channel to keep up with channel news is to follow me on Twitter but also subscribe hit the Bell notification although YouTube doesn't work all the time so uh but thank you again everyone for watching us live this evening for everyone watching us the or everyone watching the replay later thank you again really appreciate the support let us in the com let us know in the comments section below if you think PlayStation scrap their life Services strategy they should cancel marathon and let us know what you think about some of the other topics we discussed this evening as well so on that note we will catch you next time good night and thank you again