CALLUM ROSENBLATT, INTERNET CULTURE REPORTER FOR NBC NEWS PERCODAN NATHAN JOINS US, CNBC CONTRIBUTOR AND HOST OF THE ON THE TAKE PODCAST. MARY HARRIS IS BACK, MANAGING EDITOR AND HOST OF SLATES DAILY NEWS PODCAST. WHAT IS NEXT? OVER 67 MILLION PEOPLE WATCHED THIS WEEK'S DEBATE. THAT IS A GREAT SIGN FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST HEADLINES THAT WE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT -- I CAN'T BELIEVE WE ARE, AND WE ARE BECAUSE HE WON'T STOP TALKING ABOUT IT -- IS WHAT IS HAPPENING IN SPRINGFIELD, OHIO. DONALD TRUMP TALKED ABOUT IT AGAIN TODAY, THIS RIDICULOUS INSISTENCE THAT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE STEALING, KILLING, AND EATING PETS. DONALD TRUMP AGAIN IS INSISTING IT'S TRUE. IT IS NOT. WHY IS HE DOING THIS? HOW IS THIS HELPING HIM WITH UNDECIDED VOTERS, WHICH HE ACTUALLY NEEDS? >> THAT'S ALMOST UNANSWERABLE. I CAN'T SAY THAT IT IS. I DON'T THINK IT'S APPEALING TO HIS PEOPLE. I THINK IT'S APPEALING TO PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THE CONSPIRACY THEORY. AND JUST PICK APART WHAT YOU SAID THERE. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. THESE ARE HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS WHO HAVE TEMPORARY PROTECTED STATUS. THESE ARE NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. AND YOU HAVE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN SPRINGFIELD. J.D. VANCE JUST TODAY TWEETING THAT THEY ARE SPREADING COMMUNICABLE DISEASES. THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS SAID THAT IS UNTRUE. ALL -- THE ONLY THING THAT IS HAPPENING, FRANKLY, IS BOMB THREATS TO THE LOCAL ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS. AND A HEARTBROKEN FATHER WHOSE HAD TO TELL PEOPLE TO STOP USING HIS SON AS A PROP. THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING. THAT'S THE REAL STUFF THAT'S HAPPENING. >> JUST THINK ABOUT THAT, THESE REAL-WORLD CONSEQUENCES. THE BOMB THREATS, THE SCHOOLS CLOSING. DO THEY CARE? >> NO. >> WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND IS WHAT'S THE POINT OF THIS. >> THE POINT IS TO TRY TO DRILL DOWN -- AT THE VERY BASE OF WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO IS THEY ARE TRYING TO SAY THAT BECAUSE THERE'S A HIGH LEVEL OF IMMIGRATION TO THIS COUNTRY, THAT IS BAD. AND BECAUSE KAMALA HARRIS IS IN FAVOR OF OPEN BORDERS, WHICH SHE IS ACTUALLY NOT. NO DEMOCRAT THAT I'M AWARE OF IN ELECTED OFFICE IS ACTUALLY IN FAVOR OF FULLY OPEN BORDERS. THEY ARGUE, THOUGH, THAT ANYTHING THAT AN IMMIGRANT DOES IS THE FAULT OF ALL IMMIGRANTS AT THIS POINT. SO THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS VERY BASIC ARGUMENT ABOUT IMMIGRATION. BUT BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THEY ARE TRYING TO REACH AND TRYING TO COMMUNICATE WITH HER IN THIS RIGHT WING BUBBLE, THEY ARE JUST SO IN A LITTLE TORRID MASS AMONGST THEMSELVES WHERE THEY CAN'T COMMUNICATE WITH ANYONE OUTSIDE THAT BUBBLE ANYMORE. SO THEY KEEP LEANING INTO THESE WEIRD RACIST NAMES AND TRYING TO BRING ATTENTION TO THEM IN HOPES OF GETTING TO THAT CORE ISSUE. BUT PROBABLY TURNING OFF UNDECIDEDS WHO ARE LIKE, I DON'T LIKE PEOPLE CROSSING THE BORDER ILLEGALLY BUT WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? >> IS THERE A CHANCE, THOUGH, THAT REPUBLICANS OR DONALD TRUMP IS GETTING HIS WISH? PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DISMISS THE CAT STEALING AND EATING BUT HE DOES NOW HAVE PEOPLE FOCUSED ON IMMIGRATION, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE GOING WHAT, THE TOWN IS OVERRUN, THE TOWN IS AT MAX CAPACITY? THIS IS A PROBLEM, AND THE NATIONAL NEWS IS NOW FOCUSED ON AN IMMIGRATION PROBLEM. AND WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT IT THIS WEEK HAD HE NOT PUSHED THESE LIES. >> I THINK HE PICKED THE WRONG STATE. HE'S GOING TO WIN OHIO. I'D BE FOCUSED ON ARIZONA OR ONE OF THESE STATES WHERE IT'S OBVIOUSLY ON THE BORDER. SO TEXAS DOESN'T REALLY WORK. WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT, IT'S REALLY SOMETHING WE'VE ALL BECOME IMMUNE TO. IT'S THE POLITICS OF FEAR AND CRUELTY, AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'VE HEARD FOR NINE YEARS NOW. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, ALL IT DOES IS FAN SERVICE FOR HIS BASE. WHEN HE SAYS IT AT AN EVENT LIKE THAT WITH 67 MILLION PEOPLE WATCHING, 34 MILLION ARE REALLY JACKED UP ABOUT IT. THEY'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT, AND THEN HE DOUBLES DOWN AND IT'S A REALLY GREAT NARRATIVE FOR HIM. AND THIS IS SOMETHING HE'S DONE AGAIN AND AGAIN. >> IN 2016 HE RAN ON FEAR MONGERING, BUT HE ALSO WON BECAUSE HE WAS SOMEBODY NEW. HE WAS SOMEBODY DIFFERENT. PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE GETTING. BY THE 28th THE MIDTERMS, WHEN HE WAS PUSHING THE CARAVAN LIKE, THE CARAVAN LIE, DAY IN AND DAY OUT, UP UNTIL THE DAY OF THE TERMS, THOSE CARAVANS NEVER SHOWED UP AND HE NEVER MENTIONED IT AGAIN. PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THIS TIRED GAME AND NOT ENOUGH OF THEM WILL VOTE FOR HIM TO WIN. >> HE'S ON HIS HEELS RIGHT NOW. WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, YOU JUST MENTIONED 2018. HE HAS THE BIGGEST UPSET IN THE HISTORY OF U.S. POLITICS, THEN HE BECAME THE BIGGEST LOSER WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT 2018, 2020 AND 2022. LIKE THAT'S IT, HE'S OVER. IT'S DONE AS FAR AS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PEOPLE. LIKE WE KNOW WHAT IT IS. 80 MILLION PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WAY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 100 OR MAYBE 150 THOUSAND PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO SEE IT THE WAY THAT WE WERE ARTICULATING IT RIGHT HERE, AND THAT'S THE GAME FOR THE NEXT 53 DAYS. >> YOU FOLLOW ALL THAT HAPPENS ON THE INTERNET. WE SEE THE NAMES GOING CRAZY OVER THIS CONSPIRACY THEORY AND CRUSHING HIM. BUT WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET HIM TO STOP? BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IT WOULDN'T STOP THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES FROM GOING MAINSTREAM. >> DEFINITELY NOT THE MEMES BECAUSE THE MEMES ARE EVERYWHERE RIGHT NOW. YOU CAN'T OPEN TICK-TOCK WITH OUT A REMIX OF SOMEONE EATING THE DOG, EATING THE CAT SOUNDBITE. WHAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE IS I THINK THESE SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS HAVING STRONGER FACT CHECKERS, HAVING MORE MODERATION. >> GOOD LUCK WITH THAT. >> ELON MUSK SHARED VIDEO TODAY OF SOMEONE SAYING THAT THEIR FATHER DID EAT CATS. RIGHT NOW WE ARE IN A PLACE WHERE SOCIAL MEDIA IS STILL SO UNREGULATED. IT IS STILL THE WILD WEST AND I THINK THESE CONSPIRACY THEORIES ARE STILL GOING TO RUN WILD, AND THE PROBLEM IS THEY BECOME A JOKE SO THEY'RE FUNNY BUT THEN THEY'RE REPEATED, I MEAN MILLIONS OF TIMES. JUST THAT SOUNDBITE OF EATING THE CATS, EVEN THE DOGS, HAS BEEN JUST LISTENED TO ON TICK- TOCK TENS OF MILLIONS OF TIMES. AND IT'S BEEN USED IN VIDEOS OVER 77,000 TIMES. SO WE ARE GOING TO JUST KEEP HEARING THESE THINGS REPEATED AND REPEATED EVEN IF THEY ARE IN JOKE FORM AND THEY WILL NOT STOP UNTIL SOMEBODY STEPS IN, A TECH COMPANY, SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY, AND THEY SAY WE WILL NOT ALLOW EVEN A JOKE OF A CONSPIRACY THEORY. >> OR DARE I SAY, REGULATORS. YOU HAVE THE HARDEST QUESTION. >> OH GOSH. >> WHY IS THIS RACE STILL SO TIGHT?, HARRIS AT THIS POINT HAS ENDORSEMENTS FROM AOC AND DICK CHENEY. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF A BROAD COALITION. AND DONALD TRUMP HAS EVEN REJECTED THE SUPPORT OF NICKY HALEY. HE CAN'T EVEN SEE THE CENTER. SO WHY IS THIS RACE SO TIGHT? >> I THINK THIS RACE IS STILL SO TIGHT BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE IN ENOUGH STATES WHO ARE WAITING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS, AND WHO ARE TRYING TO MAKE THE CHOICE BETWEEN DO I GO WITH KAMALA HARRIS HERE, THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH HER POLICIES, OR DONALD TRUMP, EVEN THOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM AS A PERSON. I THINK THAT'S THE REAL QUESTION THAT JUST ENOUGH PEOPLE IN JUST ENOUGH STATES ARE ASKING THEMSELVES STILL, SOMEHOW. >> SHE KNOWS THIS AND HER POLICIES ARE MORE CENTRIST THAN JOE BIDEN'S ARE. SHE HEARS THAT SO SHE HAS MOVED TO THE CENTER, YET WE DON'T EVEN -- WHAT ARE DONALD TRUMP'S POLICIES? MASS DEPORTATION AND MEGA TARIFFS THAT ARE ONLY GOING TO HURT THE ECONOMY. YOU'RE GETTING THIS QUESTION. YES, REGULATION. LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THE BUSINESS WORLD DON'T LIKE LEAN UPON. REGULATION IS AN ISSUE. WHAT IS IT LIKE WHEN I DON'T KNOW HER WELL ENOUGH BUT WE'VE BEEN DOWN WITH THESE POLICIES. >> LOWER TAXES, DEREGULATION. >> WITH THE LOWER TAXES, NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO GET THEIR TAXES LOWERED. CORPORATIONS ARE. THE WEALTHIEST AMERICANS. SO IT'S LIKE WHO DO YOU WANT 2 DO YOU WANT TO EXPAND THE CHILD TAX CREDIT, DO YOU WANT TO HELP ABLE START BUSINESSES AND BUY HOMES, OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE FOR TAX CUTS 2 YOU ARE HELPING ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. IT'S NOT LIKE HE'S LOWERING TAXES. HE'S NOT >> WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS SHE NEEDS TO GET AWAY FROM BIDEN ONYX AND SHE NEEDS TO ARTICULATE THE WAY SHE'S GOING TO USE TERRACE THAT WILL ACTUALLY FEND OFF CHINA A LITTLE BIT BUT NOT HURT THE CENTER OF AMERICA, THE MANUFACTURING BASE HERE. I THINK YOU JUST ARTICULATED VERY WELL, TRUMP TALKS ABOUT TARIFFS LIKE ALL THAT MONEY IS GOING TO GO INTO THE TREASURY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND ALL THAT DOES IS ACTUALLY VERY INFLATIONARY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE EXISTING POLICIES THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, WE ARE KEEPING CHINA AT A. CHINA'S ECONOMY IS SO BAD RIGHT NOW AND THEY ACTUALLY HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO EXPORT DEFLATION SO WE'VE BEEN SO FOCUSED ON DEFLATION AND LISTEN, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE REALLY HURTING RIGHT NOW. THE CUMULATIVE EFFECTS OF INFLATION. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT'S REALLY COMING HARD? CRUDE OIL IS COMING IN HARD, INTEREST RATES ARE COMING IN RIGHT NOW, SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT MIGHT END UP BEING A TAILWIND FOR THE U.S. CONSUMER. THAT'S HOW SHE HAS TO REALLY START TO FOCUS ON WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO BUILD ON SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE COMING AROUND RIGHT HERE HER WAY. AND THE LAST THING I'LL SAY IS THIS NOT -- YOU SAY IT ALL THE TIME, THE STOCK MARKET IS NOT THE ECONOMY. THE STOCK MARKET IS AT ALL-TIME HIGHS RIGHT NOW AND SO IF THIS WAS TRUMP HE HE SAYING, YOU'RE WELCOME, AMERICA. HERE IS THE S&P 500, WHICH IS A BIG INDEX, THAT'S ALL-TIME HIGHS OF 18% OF THE YEAR, BUT THEY ARE JUST NOT GOING TO GET TO THAT GAME. THEY'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THE THINGS THAT'S GOING TO HELP EVERYDAY AMERICANS. >> YOU KNOW WHAT? WHY THE HELL DOES SHE HAVE TO EXPLAIN HERSELF DOWN TO EVERY POLICY AND EVERY WORD? HE SURE NEVER HAS. HERE'S WHAT HE SAID THIS WEEK ON HEALTHCARE. HE JUST DUMPED ON OBAMA CARE FOR 9 STRAIGHT YEARS AND HIS ANSWER WAS, I HAVE CONCEPTS FOR COULD YOU IMAGINE IF SHE SAID I'VE GOT CONCEPTS? >> THE WILDEST THING ABOUT THE DEBATE IS GOING AND IT FELT SO UNFAIR., HARRIS HAS TO WALK THIS LINE WHERE SHE HOLDS INTO ACCOUNT BUT SHE DOESN'T LOOK TOO HARSH AND DONALD TRUMP JUST NEEDS TO BE NOT OPENLY RACIST. AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT, WHY DOES HE GET THIS CURVE? LIKE WHAT IS THIS? SHE HAS TO BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT DOES FEEL UNFAIR. >> FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, WHAT IS IT? WHAT'S KEEPING THEM NOT VOTING YET. >> WHAT'S KEEPING THEM NOT VOTING YET IS BEING REALLY FRUSTRATED WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, FEELING LIKE KAMALA HARRIS IS AN EXTENSION OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, AND TRUTHFULLY THAT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH ISRAEL IN GAZA. ALSO SOME YOUNG PEOPLE NOT WANTING TO VOTE FOR TRUMP BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HE'S TRUMP SO THEY'RE LIKE I DON'T HAVE A PARTY IN THIS. I DON'T HAVE A DOG IN THIS FIGHT. MY VOTE DOESN'T MATTER SO THEY DON'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED. KAMALA HARRIS IS AN EXTENSION OF BIDEN AND TRUMP IS GOING TO JUST RUIN AMERICA. BUT IF THEY SIT OUT THEY DON'T HAVE A VOICE. >> BUT THEN HELP ME WITH THIS. SO THE YOUNG PERSON WHO SAYS, LISTEN, I DON'T LIKE HER POLICIES BUT I DON'T LIKE HIS PERSONALITY. WHAT ARE HIS POLICIES THAT THEY LIKE? IF THEY ARE SAYING THEY ARE REALLY UNHAPPY ABOUT ISRAEL AND GAZA, DO THEY KNOW WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO HE'LL >> THAT THE PROBLEM, THOUGH. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY IT'S ISRAEL AND GAZA AND MAYBE THINGS GET A LITTLE BETTER UNDER KAMALA HARRIS, OR ITS GAZA IS WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH UNDER TRUMP AND THERE ARE PEOPLE ARE ONLINE, THERE ARE PEOPLE IN SOCIAL MEDIA WHO ARE TR