F. Murray Abraham: The Most Memorable Moments in a Storied Career

welcome my name is Julian schlosberg and the name of our show is movie talk this week my guest is the academy award-winning actor for the movie Amadeus F Murray Abraham hi Murray and welcome thank you very much I feel very privileged to be uh your first guest yes it's true I feel very privileged to have you now let's go back let's go back in time to a young boy with asthma how did asthma change your life we were um uh in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania I was born in Pittsburgh and my brother and I both suffered from it and we were told we had to move to a desert area and it turned out to be El Paso and um there's a large Syrian contingency there and we went to El Paso I was about four years old you also started reading a lot because you were home a lot isn't that true yeah I was a sickly child it's really hard to uh anyone who's been sick for a while as soon as they they uh find that they're healthy for whatever reason they really appreciate their health very much I was sickly I had romatic fever and I was out of school for a year and it was at that time that I learned about reading we didn't have television then and radio was important to me me but my family was strictly Blue Collar hardworking people who I'm sorry to say didn't have much time for reading but I did fortunately and I got yes and well the other thing that I'm interested in in El Paso you kind of I remember I went to school I wonder if you had this in school M where they had the angel on One Wing on one shoulder and the devil on the other did you have that in your little school what a memory that is yes I I remember it now yeah yeah and and that's what I think of you alter boy juvenile delinquent let's talk about both how do you know all these things my god oh I did my I had to do my research but also I uh I've been following you since my B Mitzvah yeah it's true in Al Paso at that time there were something gangs called pachucos uh they're kind of the forerunners of the of the really dangerous gangs now the Bloods and the CPS but then there were not many guns around it was knives and other things but you could usually walk away from a from a fight maybe you know hurt a little bit but the point is you could walk away and uh we had our own gang nothing really violent just stupid doing those things I suppose teenagers do different things now than we did then there wasn't that much in the way of drugs there was alcohol but uh we we were we were we were stupid but we would steal cars it was much easier to steal cars in those days hot wiring a car was very simple now it's all very electron and that may sound strange to you but it was very common I'll tell you something interesting about El Paso Texas uh the um it was wonderful to be part of two cultures I grew up speaking Spanish but uh the uh people left their doors open you've heard this before too but also they used to leave their keys in their cars and there was so much thievery that if your car was stolen because you left the keys and you were responsible for it it was actionable anyhow it was uh we just drove around we didn't do anything terrible we might have trashed a few cars but as I'm saying as I told you I'm going to go on a long time it was just something that you did you were part of it was get Reckless as exciting you were part of a gang you had your own name and you felt a little safer with people around you but did you have did you have a name we call our the Rogues well actually as far as I know you've lived up to that name tell me about how did the F of because you were born Murray Abraham yeah how did this F come to B to pass I tell you um my father is from Syria his his name is fared and uh the f is there because of him and aside from that I thought that Murray Abraham doesn't sound like very much if muray Abraham does it's true you know when you think about it there aren't that many people that start out with an initial so it's made you different right off the bat yeah I thought so at the time at one time in a previous generation or two it was common for actors to have first initials and of course there's f f f f what his name f Le Bailey no yes yes that's right fle Bailey is right but he even though he he was an actor in the courtroom as a lawyer that's right tell me tell me a little bit about um the idea of your voice your incredible voice was not the voice you were born with tell us about how it became this incredible voice well thank you for the compliment the same to you and to you too Mark you have a definitely a radio voice it was very simple uh there uh I was really getting into a lot of trouble and uh I had decided that I wanted to finish school as soon as possible and get out of El Paso and um I took speech in drama a teacher that took interest in me Lucha P Hutchins uh changed my life and she uh I didn't expect this to happen she introduced me to the theater she introduced me to Shakespeare and once I started to read and to really take it seriously don't ask me where it came from it's to her credit that she saw something that I didn't know I had and I realized after I started to listen to myself that I had to do something with my voice if I really wanted to do Shakespeare so I began to listen to Olivier I still have those records by the way and Gil good and Gil good uh I have them here and I used to listen to them and then mimic them and my father had a recording machine and I would listen to what I sounded like H what got you to New York was it always your goal to get out of El Paso and get to New York well in El Paso that whole Mexican culture you felt very safe in Los Angeles it felt like a mirror and besides La was where you wanted to go la was the place and it was a car culture like it was in Texas as well and I couldn't wait to get out and see what the ocean was like so I thought way out I thought my way to LA and uh found a you know found found a life there and uh I got my first job was a play by Ray Bradberry who was a great man by the way and he kept friendships for years I was one of them one of many a generous wonderful man but in the Run of that play the the wonderful ice cream suit which was a long run in La nine months we ran whoa H yeah it was my first real U personal relationship with a bunch of actors in a in a tight situation and I listened to what they had to say about acting and I didn't like the way they I didn't like their idea of acting I thought I want something higher I want something else their idea was to give the producer what I'm making this a long answer an LA actor does not have the same idea of the the as I did and I like so many movie actors I mean there are great ones but it wasn't enough for me and I wasn't seeing any kind of respect for the theater that I thought it deserved so as soon as the show closed I went to in New York and studied with udah haogen well we should talk I think Ray Bradbury wrote The Martian Chronicles in Fahrenheit 4551 is that right that's the same yeah he was a great science fiction writer and the fact that you stayed in touch is interesting so on to okay on to New York's and UDA haogen now UDA Hagan is a tough cookie I knew her I met her spent time with her and I know that she took a real liking to you and yet at one point you walk out tell us about that yeah well you really do your research don't you I became a favorite of hers in as much as that I became a monitor for the class that means I got to turn the lights off and on when the you know that was her gift to her favorites but uh my work was was was pretty exciting at first but the longer I studied with her the the the worse I got and I realized after a year of studying with her that I was no good I wasn't trusting myself what I had been trying to do is adopt everything that she was teaching and push away or disregard what I brought to the theater I was no longer trusting my instinct is what I'm trying to say I was trying simply to please udah Haan and that's a real problem with most great teachers they have a great Charisma and a student can can fall under their spell and some of them stay with that teacher and never go anywhere else and uh you can't make a Life by being a student you're not an actor unless you're getting paid as far as I'm concerned so tell me a little bit after years I'm sorry I was gonna say tell me a little bit about walking out though oh well it was very simple uh the last thing I did for her was from Henry 5 and she stopped me at one point and she said she never stopped anybody she said that's enough let stop he has a wonderful talent and he pisses all over it whoa so I walked out I left I was brokenhearted but after I stayed away I began to to ReDiscover myself and I realized that she did it deliberately to get rid of me she knew what had happened huh that that's interesting are you stayed in touch though didn't you a bit yeah yeah she was very good to me uh she was very supportive I wrote sometime later that I was going to be doing Sero and I reread her books because it were so helpful and I she sent me a note saying she really appreciated it and when she died it turns out that she kept that note that I wrote her oh she did appreciate it they sent me a copy that yeah it's great because it meant so much to me oh yes so okay you're now in New York you're studying with udah haogen I imagine you're doing some theater but you've not been front of a camera but you start with commercials what did commercials do for you anything at all oh yeah it was very different then uh in those days I think maybe 90% of the commercials in this country were were made here in New York and you could do six or seven or eight maybe 10 auditions a day you running from one place to another and uh that was kind of a training for the camera by the way that was where my camera training came from and uh I became pretty proficient at it uh and uh after a while I was making a living finally but I also was getting slick and I I I was worried about that because I still was doing theater when I could which was not paying nearly what commercials paid I made a lot of money but I mean in those terms a lot of money but the point is I decided at one point that I had to stop doing commercials because I was I knew what was happening it was the same kind of a thing in other terms that I experienced with Miss Hogan by the way that's what I that's what I was just gonna say yeah I never called her UDA by the way I couldn't do that anyway Miss but it was the same kind of thing and I thought that's the next step I've got to do this and and I stepped away from it and it was pretty tough for a while but it was worth it it's important to do do that you you you have to you have to be aware that you're shaping yourself you're not letting yourself be shaped a very important thing yes I'd say and as you say doctors often fall under the straber ETC and that's not necessarily the best thing let's talk though in terms of I want to just announce to everyone listening that this man paid his dues if you want look at credits if you want to see a guy who starts out in little roles in major movies and then all of a sudden explodes but let's go to the little roles at the beginning let's talk about George C Scott and They Might Be Giants or or alpacino and Scarface let's talk about what that must have meant to you they're working with two major Stars you've got small roles did You observe what did you find what working with them or watching them the important thing that I observed with both of them is that each one was absolutely professional all those stories about George Scott it was not a bad boy at all on that film and it was tough filming it was really so cold the cameras froze at one point I never complained not one time and he was always delivering I was very happy to see that it also told me that you can't believe all the stories you hear but with Al it was another thing because because Alan and I were we used to hang out at the same cheap bars in the old days we didn't know each other we just used to you know drink at the same place but when he became famous he was very generous with every actor and in for example cico I had a very small scene with him and he was so encouraging to each of the other actors he would say how do you feel about that and we're talking about people who have one or two lines or sometimes none do do you want to try it again would you like to do a little improvisation I don't know there are many actors who do that kind of thing I'm a I'm a big fan of else and I remember I think I'm right aren't you in the front seat driving and he's in the back and he wants you you want him to go in or he wants you to go in and you're not gonna go I think right that's it uh we want him to go up and and do the the bus and he's dressed for it and we say you go ahead you get them to open the door and we'll be there you're back up and what happens is he gets stuck in the doorway because they don't they suspect him and he can't move and he's at the mercy of these drug dealers and we don't go to help him and there's a moment in there where you where lumet showed us thinking about what should we do it was a wonderful moment it's funny to be talking about myself that way but there aren't really I have to share with you there aren't many moments in my films that I'm really I I'm I I like to think about that I enjoy looking at and there's one moment there in that little thing that I like very much I'm proud of that but it's the same it's same of of of of amadas there's a lot in that that I can't bear looking at I really can't why why it's all I see is the mistakes all I see is the things I could have done should have done the timing could have been better or the the gesture or something but there's some stuff that's pretty good I would say good enough for you to win the academy and the movie to win the academy and mil Lo to win the Academy I didn't want to get there so fast but we're there at amadas and I know what I find fascinating let's talk about how the hell did a guy get the role that every actor wanted how did that happen well it's a story uh it's been a while I got to a point where I was refusing work and I was getting nice offers but I didn't want to be a supporting player anymore I wanted something more again it was a departure and that's another leap that's very difficult as as you know as as a as a producer as a head of a studio practically how difficult that is to convince the money people to give that schmuck who nobody knows you know a job that every eth in the worlds any the point is I got a call Milos was calling in groups of actors to uh let's make this as clear as possible in those days and it may still be happening there were group auditions and they would ask you to improvise and from the impro improvisation they would then select who they wanted to take to the next phase and then they would audition for certain roles and when this happened for Amadeus I said I don't want to be seen uh for a supporting role for one more British actor I'm not going to play second fiddle American actors are at least as good as every British actor and Americans uh are not getting a fair shake and I don't want to see him for this I don't want to be a mass a bunch of people I want to I want the role of saleri and my agent said what I said no I mean it so M called again I don't know why he was asking for me maybe he was just asking for a bunch of people and I was one of them he asked asked three times for me to come back and be part of that improv organization group and on the not three times two times the third time I got a call I said I'm not going to do it and they said no he wants to see you for the part and I must tell you I don't know where that came from except that he wasn't seeing in all the people who wanted to do that part he wasn't seeing what he wanted what he was hoping to find because as you said that part was the part I mean it was the part of almost of the generation each actor the one in England and the one here in the United States that were both Brits and they both had won the top honors when they did it in the theater and I think even when it played in Russia the guy in Russia won the top onor he did he did you're right in other words it's the role you know if you if you can and we should excuse me m we should point out that Paul scoffield and Ian McKellen were two of the actors that won who played it and clearly you would think one of those would get the role well of course that's of course you would think so so when he got the call when he said all right I he interviewed me and the interview was terrible do you really want to go on with this story I do he and Saul xans were in a a Brownstone apartment in an office a make thrown together office which was busy and noisy and I was there to be interviewed and every time it was my turn to talk M would answer the phone and I after a few minutes not much time I kept looking at Saul saying what's going on and Saul said you know well so after I don't know less than five minutes it was the end of the interview and I was I was so mad I I I I stormed I didn't STM out I left knowing it was a waste of time he wasn't interested in me and I went to see a friend and I bought a six-pack of beer and we would I was like I'm so pissed off and then next day I got a call saying that he want us he wants to put me on tape it was tape in those days and I said really and they said yeah he wants you to come to his place he'll give you the script that he wants you to work on the piece of it you'll go to his apartment and you'll he'll he'll work with you before you do the taping it was at the Hampshire house on Central Park South and it turns out that the woman the actress who was there I had worked with in a check off play so I knew her I felt very comfortable Kathy doy and it was a a nice scene we did this scene together it's a beautiful woman I could see why M wanted her to be there yeah afterwards we had a drink together and blah blah blah and then at the taping itself s I'm sure you can edit this and make this shorter at the taping it was a studio up around 57th Street but the elevator was broken so in order to get to where the to the studio you had to go through a furniture store to the freight elevator to go up to this place and the doors open into this room full of actors and people running around auditioning here and auditioning and I thought this is a joke so I told him who I was and she said okay go sit over there I said no no this this is for the starring role put me someplace a little more private I mean why not might ask for it I I I gotta tell you I'm listening to this story you really had a lot of guts to stand up the way I mean after all we gotta ex let people know at this point you're playing little roles I mean it's not like you know this is but I guess you just felt enough is enough and I felt like I had nothing to lose not gonna get this you know I mean I really and of course I worked on it but the point is when they called me the woman who was the actress who was working with me off camera I had also worked with on a play a John we play uh maybe was that Kathy darling was that Kathy darling she was in the the seagull and this other young woman Alexa was in landscape of the body John G and so I felt comfortably gadon so we did the little the audition and she was dismissed and he said to me all right muray now do the old man and I said I I didn't work on it he said that's all right do it and I did it and uh I have to tell you it's not really hard to do good material I mean that's really good material the action that I used that just came to me as I was working on it was the one that we finally ended up with months and months and months later when we were shooting the film it was the same thing so it was inspired for a second so when it was over when he said cut and I wanted to go and and and thank him for the audition he was gone he he ran off so I thought of course I don't have that that's that's a pretty good sign so finish so I you know I thank the engineer and I went back and I thought that's it and I'm painting my kitchen cabinets in my place in Brooklyn my apartment in Brooklyn and I got a call I said uh he wants you wow I must say it's an extraordinary story a great imitation of Milos but I I want to ask you since you get we talk about Milos you as an actor go into a show you go whether it's film theater you go in with a definite knowledge how you want to play it what do you want from a director what what do you expect from a director when you're in a anything you're doing I expect a director to know at least as much as I do about my character and about the the project itself I expect him or her to have an idea what they want to accomplish with this piece of work and to to to have that so clear in their mind that they allow a lot of experimentation within that framework they allow me to try different things because they're not going to lose track of where they want it to end up and you always know when an actor does not know what they're doing because they have one idea in mind and if you don't uh if you don't fit yourself into that you then you're you're going to begin to Simply repeat what it is they're asking you you to do rather than create something with milus Foreman or with any good director and I've I've worked with some not a lot but some who really trust themselves that much that they'll let you go and let you go and then select but also to have what it takes to communicate with you on your level that was one of the great gifts of Elia Kazan Eliah kazad was that he spoke to each actor differently in ways that the actor completely understood that's the only way you can uh uh account for all of the extraordinary performances that he got out of So many actors who otherwise were not very good or were mundane but in his films they were they Rose anyhow they were wonderful the point is with Milos he was uh he was he had a nose for the truth and he would say at one point sometimes when I was trying he says no more that's [ __ ] and there aren't many people who can say that and get away with it ex until you understand you he knows and you trust him yes he says so then it must be B I don't watch myself I don't have to direct myself that's the problem with a Bad director you begin to direct yourself and watch yourself and that's not a creative way of thinking well no it's not freeing you to do what you can do you you're worried about the fact that he doesn't know yeah or she yeah or she tell me tell me m you've worked in all mediums in film and theater and television do you have a preference of any of the three oh it's always the theater it is it is yeah but I I love film too but I have to do both I have to balance it I'm much yeah I'm very comfortable on the stage well yes the idea of those stories about zero moell and you you've told a few that I mean he gets away with he literally got away almost with murder he'd walk off S in people's laps yes you know you can do that but you can't do that in movies well no you can't do it in movies and and and keep the job and keep the job now tell me tell me a little bit about okay you you we've established All the President's Men and Scarface and all the George C Scott They Might Be Giants you get amadas you win the Academy Award what happens is it does it go to your head does it wait let me interrupt you uh the uh thing about Scarface is that uh I meant Serpico I should have said Serpico that's fine but it was uh Scarface also um um that was also Pino but um zance was a very tough negotiator of course you know that music business is anyhow it's another story but he was really being a hard negotiated for so long that I had already in the process auditioned for uh for Scarface before I auditioned for MERS and and Brian dep Palmer and Al and I did an improvisation anyway he offered me the job while they were negotiating for amadas and I said can you I asked Brian can you please hold off he says I got to know pretty soon muray you know because I go to you know I got to make this movie I got to have a schedule I said but he said what's it for I said it's for Amad he okay I'll wait for amadas but I need an answer well it was long I said fine okay I I need to pay the rent of course I'll I'll do scarfing with pleasure Pino and Brian dealma so I took the job which was going to be shot you know later on and after that I got I'm AAS so what they had to do was shoot around both pictures and I was doing both at the same time I was doing Scarface in LA and uh Florida and and doing amadeos in Prague and it was very romantic flying back and forth and prepar it wasn't as hard as it sounds I well it sound I think I think I think you should keep it as hot as it sounds well because I wantan to but I want to ask you this with amadas you win the Academy Award you're now the best actor of the year it's a you're a worldwide name how did it change your life and how did you handle it oh yeah well I didn't handle it I uh I decided that uh I wasn't going to do anything except starring rols from on oh and only and only really good stuff I thought I thought they were going to be all amadas after that that's a mistake that's kind of stupid well but you were you were I had I was a some wonderful stuff I have to tell you with some very good director famous directors but I said no I want the starring part how dare you that's the other part that was very Dam ing how dare you that's what the economy W did to me it made me feel real like I knew everything you know what I mean that's dangerous who want to be around someone like that yeah I was doing work you know I was getting jobs uh in the theater I was doing Off Broadway for $9 $100 a week I was working but you know you can't there's there's a Time clock on the fame of an Oscar and that's what friends of mine Al one of them kept reminding me of he said it's good for about five years Murray you've already gone A Year Without a major film better be careful I insist he's right and but it wasn't just him there were other people and I said no this is I'm going to do just classy work only and they're on my terms you know well you can't go on that long before people just don't think you're alive anymore yes yeah and of course the reputation then gets damaged well exactly they say why isn't he working is he is he an [ __ ] I'm not an [ __ ] I I'm a nice man but I did want something more great opportunities on the other hand when a man can do as much Shakespeare as you've done as much as check off the I mean remember you've always done the sireno I mean what a incredible role I mean these so you were able to overcome that part of it at least but movies we both know movies are a tough tough yeah game they're much tougher than the other two they just are so at that point uh I made a link a connection with a an agent in Italy uh Victorio San and now with his son uh and I started doing these these these giant epic movies in Italy you know with with the biggest stars in the world that you know they sign their name they do they do a week's work and they get paid a whole bunch of money you know that kind of a film oh yeah well it it I think as long as you win the Academy Award for best actor Italy will hire you well it's what you said to me when I won you said for the rest of your life is going to be Academy Award winner yeah right that's right uh now let's talk in terms of more modern day because God knows you've done incredible stuff on television but let's start with Homeland I wanted to ask as a viewer as a viewer wow I was on this the seat of my you know the edge of my seat was the any kind of tension on the set to help you guys or not I tell you everybody was such I can't tell you enough positive about that set about those people such Pros really was but but CL particularly that woman I can't say CLA we should say CLA d d no you know that intensity that you see in the performance that's what she brought to the rehearsal she did she didn't fool around she was anyhow I big big respect for her and uh sa you know we we we go back I can't say enough good about it uh one of the things is that it was worldwide it was Sensational people I live in the village and here lower Fifth Avenue lot of tourists down around here and I would be going about my business and people would say my character name with these strange accents oh but also I got to shoot that great material that extraordinary material in exotic places South Africa was terrific Berlin was a big Discovery uh it was it was Heaven well you know one one could say Around the World in 80 Days with F Murray because we can talk about other places where you visited let's talk let's talk about one of your favorite movies I know the Grand Budapest Hotel written and directed by Wes Anderson that must have been it seemed as a viewer like everybody was enjoying themselves on that one he is one of the best ever ever ever where you meet him the next time he comes to town I'll make I'll we'll have a lunch I'd love it love it but we we lived in one hotel was a border of of uh it was in Germany on the border of um oh gosh anyhow the eastern border and um sounds like Poland to me uh it was Poland yeah of course yeah and U okay we all lived in one one hotel everyone cast crew and we all ate at communal tables crew cast everyone together and some of the most famous actors in the world would come out for two days work for that guy they spent more time traveling than they do acting yeah do anything for him it was a wonderful experience and he insisted on keeping the same people in all of his films he did a picture in Paris I think he lives there maybe London or par anyhow the point is he called me I was busy doing something he said Murray I want you to come and do a day's work so I can put you in the picture huh he's going to fly me to Europe and back and for a day I said I can't can you so but that's the kind of man he is yes well I want to ask you this what do you do when you're not acting you're such a consumate Pro you're so are you what the hell do you do I remember herb Gardner who was a huge fan of yours the writer once said what would Murray have done if he wasn't an actor would he have said the tuna fish is in aisle three I don't think so so tell me what what is your downtown downtime like I'd like it to be writing because you know I love your writing but what else her her Gardner was a wonderful man he was a wonderful man I did a play of his you know goodbye people yes yeah and uh he uh what was the question I forgotten you took me off into no I that I well I wanted to know about the downtime what did you do when you not acting yeah let me tell you this story uh briefly none no story is brief with me no question is brief no question is brief with me there was a column uh 10 question column in The Daily News years ago and they would ask 10 questions of a working actor or a person in the show business and my wife happened to be at the interview my wife God Rest her soul and um the last question was what would you do if you knew that tomorrow was the end of the world and my wife instantly said he'd look for work and that's what you do and but now I don't look for work as much uh I don't have to but what I do is work I really I I I still study the sonets I know 50 of Shakespeare's sonets Now by heart I'm going to know at least a 100 before I'm finished it's not that big a deal it keeps me exercised but I sing every morning I vocalize and I work out that takes up a bit of the morning and then I think about writing that book that you say I should always write I do I do okay so here's what I want to know a man like yourself does these incredible plays and sometimes they're not so incredible but you're doing them eight times a week how do you do it how how can you if you'll forgive the expression get it up eight times a week it's [Music] uh it's the best I think that's one of the great losses that we have what with television and Comics because there was a time when the stuff you saw on television had been polished on stage for years before they brought it to television but now it's such a mass instant mass media your your material is old before you have a chance to really hone it it depends on the material if you're doing a show eight times a week if you're doing Shakespeare you can do that without any problem because it continually changes I know I've done it but if you're doing a crappy play it's a chore if it's three times a week yes but getting it up for me it's easy because I really do bring the day with me when I go to work that's part of the change but also I absolutely believe that each audience is essentially different and they bring a different energy every time there's a new audience it's a new energy and I recognize that and I try to communicate with that I try to receive it I mean without it's instinctive it's nothing I practice I just simply believe in it and I think they deserve the original the first performance as as well as anyone on the opening night deserves it some people repeat I I can't imagine that but by the word the word uh for for rehearsal in French is repeti repeat yeah the uh the other thing is that in New York I live not far from the public theater and when I I've done a lot of work there and when I was doing King Lear which was a wonderful performance but not everybody thought so and as you know um uh if your phone doesn't ring the day of the reviews you know it's a bad notice right well that's right clear it didn't ring so I'm walking to work gotta go to work the next day anyway yes and on the way a Stranger Comes and says did you read what so and so said about you I said I haven't read I won't read the reviews for a couple of weeks he says boy he really doesn't like you I thought well so yeah your performance changes daily thanks to the New Yorkers yeah I would say well a whole new group of people discovered F Murray Abraham with White Lotus yeah oh my golly and like and like Wes Anderson Mike White is the writer director are they similar to you are they people that you like working with similar in many in in many ways first of all they are both writers directors they both make all the decisions not all decisions but they do the all the artistic decisions they keep the same family around them uh of of of Cru as much as they can but also his understanding and his love for actors Wes loves actors and so does Mike but there's so much happiness on the set I suppose that comes through doesn't it it does it oh my Godly does and how about playing this kind of a a lovable lecture can you believe can you you can't tell you how many young women stop me on the street and smile and say oh you you wonderful wonderful he's aous Pig the First Rate they love him they do little hard signs when they see me I mean wow what okay thank you yes and for and for White Lotus you were nominated for Golden Globe you were nominated for prime time Emmy I mean this has really been in a way another Resurgence oh absolutely and the interesting thing about that is so interesting an interesting aspect of it is that I had a great role and U making a lot of money on Mythic Quest I was making anyhow the point is I was warned when I first joined that organization which was a another terrific group of people by the way that's that was really I hated to leave that show but I was warned early on not to tell certain jokes not racist not not not sexist but a little off color maybe and I love jokes so I was warned about it anyway I was on for several seasons and it was a great character one of the best I've ever done and at one point they said no you we have to let you go because you told a joke with a bunch of people and someone was offended I could tell you the joke now and you would you would say that's not filthy that's funny but anyhow the point is someone did and I was fired essentially that's what it amounts to I was fired and uh if I hadn't been fired from that show I never would have done White Lotus H H so so there there you go the what that great religion aspect in when God closes the door he opens the window so maybe that's the case now let's talk about coming up the coming attractions of F Murray what about Queen of Versailles tell us about that it's based on the documentary Queen of Versailles and if you don't know what you should take a look at it because it's an extraordinary story and uh Stephen Schwarz has been working on it for a couple of years with h Kristen chenowith and I was involved I was invited to be her husband in the musical adaptation of this remarkable family of people and uh we did a workshop they're working on it now it it'll be three years since they started working on it and I did a workshop here in town uh I sing a bit but uh we're talking with real First Rate singing people and I was very intimidated but anyway um the uh presenting a big musical now is so expensive from the from the onset is expensive they had to rent a studio big enough for a cast of 21 people with sets and we're talking about a workshop production with a little there there several musical people there and and all the backup I mean they took 50 people to put that together I mean what can that cost for a studio lot of money 48th at Broadway for a for a month and a half anyway true that was my but we have to put if I just didn't point out that Stephen Schwarz is the man who did Wicked so I don't think we have to do a ton for him or the money yeah anyhow yeah it's still running 20 21 22 years yep and doing over a million every week like it was a cash register that's here that's not counting the road shows that doesn't count the road shows or Europe or Asia and and they're making a movie that's that's right and they held it off they was David Stone was smart enough to hold it off the producer wait I he says I had a lot of money out there before the movie comes out but just one quick thing there was a time when you and I were young and a movie would come out of a play you had to close the play you don't now I give you Chicago still running you know so I mean uh it it's a totally different world anyhow let's get back to the Queen of Versailles and you and Kristen chenworth oh it's I keep talking making nice with so many people you know and we should let our audience know I don't say these things off the top of my head I sure say nothing that's all she is Straight from Heaven I ain't kidding you and aside from you know that the pipes but she's Fab she's a fabulous wonderful woman I can't say enough about her very lucky yeah in my you know if this thing does go and I don't see any reason why I shouldn't uh but things happen but if it goes I'll probably be the oldest person on Broadway oh yeah well you're going to certainly certainly be the oldest P person this summer in Boston so we should say you're gonna be playing Boston right have a wonderful song that that Stephen's written for me I mean it's a lovely love song and I do a little soft shoe I can't wait oh my well I want to go I want to ask you I want to tell you actually in in my what left in my mind what I remember in Amadeus was when you became the old man the one that Milos didn't let you even study and just had to do it yeah right off the top you swear to I swear to God you could play Ben Franklin I thought I saw Benjamin Franklin be D yeah so when you get a chance see what you think and then we'll discuss doing the Ben Franklin story I see what you yeah tell a guy he was quite a character Ben yeah yeah oh he's fascinating man I want to I want to ask you I know it's hard because this is an incredible career like 506 well 60 years have you've been doing this tell me if there if one said is there a highlight would you say if one said what was the highlight of your professional career so far would you be able to pick out one or two things it's hard I have to say Amad is so important to me but I mean it is of course important but uh I loved the old man in amadas I loved his humor I loved his perspective and I also loved that his fight was not with amadas with uh with amadas his fight was with God I thought yes that's God that's balls that's he took on the big boy you know or the that's right you can't get any bigger that's it but there's something else there's another small thing it was a character I loved him h a character uh if you'll remember if you'll try to remember in the opening scene when you first meet him in the in the insane asylum what is he doing when you meet him after all the crap he's been through he's composing composing he refuses to give up it's what you do it's the work he still thinks maybe maybe now I I loved him for that yeah I do too and I think that when you know people talk about an artist an artist doesn't necessarily become successful yeah an artist can still be an artist yeah uh tell me uh one the sirino is a favorite I love know I I really I did the Burgess translation so it was inverse and it's it's much more romantic than the the most the hooker but the uh but the uh I've done a Greek that I I really loved I love the Greeks but uh I loved my king Lear oh by the way my very favorite of course is [ __ ] he was a big me and I I love yeah but that reminds me quickly interjection when the Times review came out for my leer the headline was Abraham kills the king and and then years later but there were some critics who said it was the greatest leer of Our Generation by the way wow wow very small newspapers but anyway and and and and one that you owned my mom years later when I did [ __ ] that same critic who said that about my Lear said that my [ __ ] was the best that he'd ever seen in his life so I thought one of us has become better that's right well we should say That's The Merchant of Venice that you're speaking of and uh and of course it's a great great play um I wanted this is a totally on a totally different subject you did not one but two movies with a major name named sha connory yeah a man who who was to my estimation the greatest James Bond there ever was ever will be they could keep making him he to me is the personification absolutely but he but he has a very mixed reputation and I wondered how you did in both name of the Rose and uh finding Forester yeah I have only good things to say about him he's an absolute Pro completely prepared every time didn't put up with any crap from anyone about not being on time his presence was impressive to everyone on the set because he was the leader I mean Jean shakan know was a leader too but you look at someone who's the star like that a powerful presence and he was right there I we got along very well uh later when I did Finding Forester it was the same thing it was uh yeah it was it was I made him laugh a couple of times he uh rested his soul he was quite wealthy and uh there was a the joke that the man didn't he didn't have any pockets in his pants you heard that expression yes because he was a Scotsman he was tight he was yes but uh I gotta tell you people like that and Sophia Lauren with whom I worked you walk into a room with them and you were you vanish you well you know connory was totally overlooked as a fine actor in my opinion in many ways I I you know I saw him in a picture that was not successful called Marney yeah Hitchcock movie he was terrific and then there was a movie I bet you almost no listener has heard of called the offense the name of it the offense it's directed by Sydney LT it stars Sean connory it co-stars Trevor Howard and it's about a young child molester and and connory is the Molester really what oh what courage he had to do that they totally did all of them did and of course the nobody came I mean when I say nobody came nobody came but but what a what a what a what a movie but you know it's uh it's too much it was too much uh for the time it would be worse now probably well I don't know what to say f Murr Abraham I think we've done it I think we've done it um but I cannot begin to thank you enough and to tell you how much your friendship means to me and how much I have to be grateful to m Nichols who introduced us yeah it was a real real lucky thing that day that I showed up at that restaurant that's quite by chance me and my wife and he said why don't you come and join us and that's when we met we did we did and it was uh one hell of a night oh I know what I forgot the very first time I saw you on the stage with with I mean I don't want to sound like we're going to a boys club but all you were wearing was a towel that's all you were wearing let's talk about that play I should mention that that was also one of the one of my very favorite performances Chris in the in the rich and I should men yes Terrence MCN he really I did more of his plays than any other actor he was completely loyal to me it was wonderful but that was a that was a fun performance and we did it in London too made the movie pretty good movie it's all right yeah you made the movie you did it in London you did it in New York and it proved you could really do comedy and that was what I that's what I wanted you to do when we work together in a a little movie a little play called it's my party that was fun you know uh interestingly enough I was in pretty good shape for that play uh but uh he was very uh flamboyantly gay very out women would come back to meet me isn't that interesting you think they him or something I never figured that out no they did for for Sero for example well maybe the plan in the Ritz was to change you to get you to you were on the wrong team they wanted to get you on the other team I'll give it a try not really not really no anyhow thank you m thanks a lot I appreciate it very much I say one last thing please oh you kidding that's all we have is time so I was there in London and I went backstage to say hello to Mike Nichols who was doing a play called the mourner the designated M mner and while I was there um I don't know we started look for a place to have dinner and then we drove around a taxi and dropped us off at Joe Allen and sure enough that's coincidentally we ran into Mike again he said join us but you had to leave early for whatever reason and you before you left you said uh I'm gonna produce a play for you and then you said but I'm not just saying that I'm gonna do it and you did but he left and Mike Nichols said this there goes the nicest producer in Show Business oh I've never forgot well no I uh he's full of I don't know he'll say anything that guy thank you for that my friend thank you oh I'm so glad that we uh I lost my virginity on a podcast with [Laughter] you thanks for joining us on Julian schlossberg's movie talk remember to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts