Interview: Jon Caldara, What Happened to Colorado?

well hello Free People of the rocky mountain region and welcome to this free state Colorado interview today I'm joined by John Caldera John is the president of the independence Institute a denver-based think tank that works to enhance personal and economic freedom John also hosts The Devil's Advocate interview program writes a weekly column for the Colorado politics and he's frequently heard on the radio he's also well known for his disdain of government bullies well John I hope you are well and thank you for joining me today glad to be with you well John how long have you been politically active in Colorado um since I was a kid my folks wanted to stop uh got involved in Littleton politics and uh tried to stop BS Avenue from being widened and I remember that and so you know it was always in our blood awesome were they successful at that time at that time but no not anymore it it worked now we had a you know it's it's interesting growing up in Colorado um we talked politics a lot but my folks never sat me down and said Son let me explain what hyek had to say and you know John Lock had this to say and here's the role of government and here's the role of Free People no back in the 70s growing up here there was just this sense that you do you I do me and we respect each other it was it was everything I learned about politics everything I know about my political philosophy came from being raised here it's it's like the love of Liberty just grew out of the freaking soil and people understood this is how you treat one another and you could walk down the street you know I remember downtown Denver you see two guys uh both wearing jeans and flannels and looking kind of uh rugged or or dirty one of them threw tra threw trains on a on a um oil platform the other guy owned the oil company and you never knew which one is which it just it was you know it was a great place there's a reason why in Ran put G Gulch in Colorado and it has just been heartbreaking beyond words to see that that state has changed into this command and control elitist Progressive State and that just breaks my heart well why do you think it's changed what what what's happened what's happened to Colorado and why has it become so much more authoritarian there's several factors um the first one is just large demographic changes when you have people fleeing from big government States uh that's what happens and overwhelmingly if you look over the last 15 years demographically the largest inflow has come from California what a surprise and then New York and then Illinois all big huge ugly States and people might not be Pro government there but in comparison they come here it's kind of like when you're in the hot tub and then you jump into the regular swimming pool and go oh they could turn up the temperature here I think that's how Californians feel the other part is how the left worked to change political culture in a very deliberate 15-year plan people call it the blue print uh and it really is made a difference let me let me make this statement one of the reasons we have lost Colorado is our donors and that sounds awful but let me do this through the left Stoners used a very different system that the right Stoners still haven't quite figured out the left built capacities I talked to both of the guys who wrote the book The Blueprint each one mentioned that the people they interviewed on the left all said well we look at Independence Institute and know if we could grow that out add two zeros to the budgets and wait we'll get everything we wanted what they wanted was gay marriage they wanted something very specific uh the right at the same time over these last 15 years continues to play politics like it's 19 1980 that is we throw money at candidates those candidates maybe when maybe they don't they they rent offices they rent phones they rent computers they rent databases and they rent people maybe for three months maybe for six months and then after the election it all comes crashing down the left keeps those people hired keeps those offices open and build and build and build and so they're not there to wrap them M themselves around a personality they're there to wrap themselves around a principle so the four Rich guys who wanted gay marriage put hundreds of millions of dollars not into candidates not into a political party but into things that we do media investigative reporting lawsuits voter Outreach Think Tank work policy work Recruitment and they got what they wanted they also started out with a goal we want this policy I found that a lot of conservative donors don't know exactly what they want they know what they're against they don't know what they're for and what I mean by that is it's kind of a pornography question what exactly do you want and the answer is I know it when I see it whereas the the left was like we want gay marriage and then the uh anti-fossil fuels folks said all right we'll help you with that but you have to help kill fossil fuels and they said fine and the teachers union said all right fine but you're going to have to help us stop choice and and hurt Charters okay come on in all these things are very specific policies the right likes personalities because you can pick up a phone and talk to the governor you can talk to the senator you can talk to people and hobnob with them and tell them what you think and that's great um and Taber can't call you back you know it's not like you pick up the phone I want to call the taxpayer Bill of Rights I want to call gay marriage it's not the same and so you ask why we've changed demographics because the right hasn't learned the lesson on how to invest in in capacities the full way and to have the patience to let those capacities build even today we see that you know um a lot of well-meaning good people put a lot of money behind candidates and initiatives that may or may not make a sizable difference compared to the left that invested in political culture that was a long-winded answer to your question it's a great answer John and I couldn't agree more I think the political infrastructure these organizational uh polic organizational pushes that the left has made over the past 10 20 years have really paid off for them in so many ways like you said it's a candidates come and go you know people can even remember a few Cycles ago who was running for Senate who was running for congress maybe even who was running for Governor but these organizations still exist and they remember and they keep track of voting records they keep track of media little uh sound bites and newspaper clippings and then they can use that information to build a narrative to build a story over over years to build a great point you think about something like as awful as the Colorado Times Recorder which is one of their leftist news outlets their job is to beat up conservatives and anytime any conservative says anything they they put it down and there it's stored as a news article and then if that guy ever runs for office they pull out all this stuff he said this mind you he could have said it 15 years ago before you had to call her him and him her and he said the wrong thing now he's a bigot and that's that's longterm planning that's using your money wisely the right just doesn't have the patience for that right they don't have the patience and and they don't have the understanding maybe either you know I see so many people on the right focus on political parties it's all about the party it's all about the party where on the left sure they have the party whatever but they know the Locust of power exists outside of the party you know when you're talking unlimited donations uh dark money spending you know hiding donors and moving that money around the left has really figured out that they can use you know nonprofits and political committees to to have a bigger impact than anything political party can do the right has learned that too I mean and I strongly support people be able to use their money uh without being being tracked the the difference is what you invest in in the conservative World consultants make a lot of money and we don't have many wins in the left they keep putting money into Community organizing and investigative reporting and all these things that have nothing to do with a party but they waited and it took a decade it took a decade and a half and now they're winning everything they wanted and more I mean it's it really is a testament uh to using your money wisely what's odd is a lot of a lot of conservatives understand that when it comes to their private business no it's not going to make a profit for the first 10 years but after that it's going to be great um they understand it when they donate money to one of their passion products or projects you know they want to start a church or build a wing on a hospital or get a building on their Alma moer and they're thinking ahead they're thinking you know these are kids are going to be learning in that school these are these are people who are going to be living because of the hospital and getting services and being part of the community and the church and it connects them to the future but when they give money to politics they give it as if it's a as if they're writing their car insurance payment there's just there's no joy it's an expense it's a transaction I'll give you money cons Mr consultant and then you deliver me a win this fall on X issue X person X whatever it is um my failure over the many years I've done this is to be able to go into rich people's minds and switch that wire and have them think that that next dollar that next marginal dollar that they spend if it's an investment wait a minute am I going to give it to this candidate am I going to give it to this consultant what what's the interest what what grows afterward or do I give it to groups like Independence Institute or even Colorado Union of taxpayers or Taber Foundation or other groups that do things that build on one another and over time the machine gets bigger and if if doners change that Viewpoint we win back Colorado it's just that simple mind you it's going to take a decade but it would be inevitable right and you also brought up earlier kind of these single issue advocacy groups and that's something I think the right can do a little bit better as well you know you have on the left you know the pro-abortion the pro immigration uh the anti-gun the anti-environment you know the the progame marriage group back in the day all these different groups focusing on single issues not really diluting their message but coordinating because these these political action committees or C4s whatever they are they can all coordinate for a candidate for a for an issue or coordinate behind the scenes and kind of move some of that money around and only talk to their donors only talk to their volunteers and the people that care about that one single issue without having to get into other types of of things that maybe they don't necess those um supporters don't necessarily agree with and I think that's an interesting dynamic as well out there is seeing kind of this whole blueprint um you know we have progress now of course kind of this octopus organization that kind of ties in all of these different groups out there on the left and finds the people here who agree with this issue the people here and then gets them to all coordinate whether they know they're doing it or not you also recruit people um one of the things that we do at Independence that I think is crucial is our citizens involvement project Kathleen Chandler does this uh and she helps get people on boards and commissions throughout the state we've helped get 400 people on these boards and commissions these are not elected positions but they get people involved get them close to the local government where most government is most socialism is and it gives them an inside look many of them take to and want to run for city council and then maybe county commissioner or state legislature after that and we always ask why is that we have so such bad candidates because we don't invest in building a pipeline a funnel of people coming in who over time get involved and not just running for office but becoming citizen activists citizen reporters uh recruiters of their own you know and instead we just go to cocktail parties and about Colorado and the left fills these out I mean think about it my hometown of Boulder has 25 different boards and commissions just for the city you know there's a zoning commission the library board The Liquor Board the Arts board the transportation advisory committee each one has five people on it and the folks who like to control other people's lives well they're they're happy to to get on there there was an energy advisement Committee in gy gy home of fracking and oil and gas Industries and they move forward to the city council a complete fracking ban think of that so getting involved in local government makes a huge difference and that's that's why people need to get involved and if you're interested talk to Kathleen Chandler at our citizens involvement project over at Independence just go to think freedom.org think freedom.org it's also a lot of fun that's a great Point as well you know that's a conversation I've been hearing a lot this year going to different campaign events is people are asking you know who who's going to be the next governor candidate from the Republican side you know who's going to be the next candidate for a State Senate District or or US Senate or US Congress and it seems the bench is very thin who the hell cares that doesn't matter you know how about this who's going to run on my city council to promote Independence Liberty property rights lower taxation who's going to run in our school board to get the woke agenda out of there and bring power back to parents how am I gonna when you ask those questions those other questions take care of themselves that gets taken care of the um and we need to break this down we need to break down politics and freedom to the smallest level possible and focus on that you know imagine instead of you know 400 people that Independence has helped get on boards and commissions imagine if it was 4,000 imagine if it was 40,000 you know imagine what would happen at the state legislature 8 to 10 years after that success will be inevitable but the problem is conservatives in Colorado don't want to invest that long to see an outcome and they get too excited by person ality I mean good God all we do is talk about Trump instead of talking about what's going on on our city block and when we do that we play right into their hands and that's why we've lost this state well that's that's such a great Point too because you know uh I see it so much where people get burnt out on the political scene you know because they do get involved or attached to a personality or some some you know big up big national race and they think it's going to change the world this one election is just going to change everything and restore American values and it'll all be good from then on out you know you know and unfortunately that's not the reality but once you get involved they also make this this terrible mistake that they believe what politicians say and there are so many great politicians who will tell you exactly what you want to hear you always get what you want to hear um and then they go down into the capital and they do pretty much the opposite I've seen it over and over and over again we see it when it comes to the other side everybody looks at governor polus and go wait a second he says he's business friendly but he destroys businesses he says he's a Libertarian but he takes away our guns and puts in minimum wage laws you know you can you can judge people by their actions if you build the infrastructure it doesn't matter who's in charge they will have to answer to that infrastructure they will have to answer to that Vice there really needs to be a vice built for politicians keep in mind that politicians are largely expedient um when you build this infrastructure what you end up doing is creating a vice and politicians are pretty expedient creatures they might be great people they might know right from wrong but they're three pressures that they have to answer to one is the press the next one are the special interests their donors and all the other folks and then their constituents well when you start becoming the Press when you start being one of the special interest you mentioned all these organizations that the left has and we should have something like that for people who love freedom and communication from voters you know what happens you put a politician in that Vice and they shoot out and do the right thing right now that Vice is created by the left we shouldn't be surprised that the state is turning communist yeah it's it's a great answer and it's a lot a good de detail there in terms of this this transformation that we've seen here in Colorado over the years uh getting back to local politics I think one of the primary things that people can really feel empowered by is you show up to one city council meeting you're better informed than 90% of the people in your town you know what I mean 90% of the people in your city you show up and all of a sudden you're like oh my gosh they're going to redo this road and they're going to try and get emminent domain for this property and they're going to put this on the ballot oh my gosh why is anybody talking about this well it's because nobody goes nobody goes to these City Council meetings nobody shows up for these board or commission hearings and then all of a sudden people get blindsided at the election and where did this tax increase come from why do they need this extra money they had enough money last year and people sometimes give the benefit of the doubt to these political organizations especially if it's like a fire or Sanitation District or a school district and say hey let's go ahead and uh give him some more money let's increase his Mill amount it's not not too much and then you know five 10 years later why are our property taxes so high because we've increasing that Mill Levy every year for the past decade and it really starts at that local level where people can have an impact I think one of yeah go ahead I say here's an easy First Step all right you don't want to join a border commission you turn on whatever local Municipal Channel carries your city council or school board meeting it will be boring as hell they'll be talking and things you don't understand just keep it on in the background keep it on in the background and after a while you'll you'll realize these people are morons not only are they morons but they they want to take away our freedom and our money and you end up knowing more now when it gets to a city counil usually the issue is already done it's kind of like when a um issue gets to the floor of the house or Senate here in Colorado it's been cooked you know early on when they have their study sessions and uh public participation and community outreach and all this other stuff that only the left shows up for that's what puts things in order and off it goes when I was on the RTD board a million years ago um Denver Channel 8 approached us about putting our board meetings on on the municipal Channel I was like hot damn absolutely those who wanted to grow the Empire that is RTD uh voted it down because they knew if people saw how dysfunctional and stupid the RTD board was they would never never pass a taxx increase so you know put Netflix aside one one night a week and just put on your local government and just force yourself to to to listen you don't have to watch necessarily you'll get a good idea what goes on right right yeah here here definitely Echo that sentiment I think that involvement at local level is what we need and like you said the other problems will eventually solve themselves because people get plugged in they start to understand what's going on they understand all the different players involved in this process and they become more informed and more powerful and all of a sudden they realize what kind of an impact they can have at the state level at the county level at the city level but yeah it just starts with showing up opening your ears and seeing what's going on um libertarian large libertarian not a small L like me uh went on one of these boards and commissions and hated it just hated it uh and couldn't do anything couldn't do anything and then he tried again a couple years later and he went to I forget what city it was said hey where where where do you need me I'd like to give back and I said well we have a position open on the historic board and this time instead of being you know a Libertarian who was going to tell everybody you know what right from wrong he just sat back and absorbed it all and then one day came the proposal that had to go through their committee to take like a thousand homes and put it into a historic district which meant you wouldn't be able to do anything to your house it is a huge property taking and he said hm I understand we want to keep these homes in this neighborhood in the charm but let's think this one through and he argued persuasively that this was a huge taking and the historic board voted it down wow now we're not going to stop the presses nobody knows about that Victory but that guy went home that night and just said you know people in this neighborhood uh you have property rights because I got involved otherwise you'd be forced into this district and you wouldn't be able to do a thing with your own property wow that's a great story that's a great story um you talked a little bit about the local government initiative there at the Independence Institute uh what are some of the other projects that the independence Institute is engaged in well we're all battling alcoholism but we do that proudly we really have uh a couple different legs we we are a public relations firm might be the best way to think about us and our our customer isn't cocacola it's liberty it's limited government it's personal and economic freedom in the state of Colorado and we we need to reach out to people who are politically tuned in and we do that through our YouTube channel through our radio shows through our columns through the television show we have on uh Channel 12 Friday night at 8:30 but better yet go to YouTube and look for IIT TV Independence Institute television iitv watch Devil's Advocate we have a podcast um now solely devoted to energy issues in Colorado which is the biggest issue in Colorado um so we we do the issue papers and the rest but really we're a Communications shop and then we're also a recruitment shop that is we try to get people involved connected we do that through our internship program uh We've graduated oh my God 180 people through our internship program we call it our Future Leaders program because the intern exploitation program didn't have the right ring to it and um over half of the people who have gone through it stay on in public policy some run for office some work um in different organizations we were part of a lawsuit I think in Douglas County was a free speech issue and we partnered with the center for competitive politics a DC uh pro bono legal firm and one of our lawyers was one of our former interns and it's like ah circle of life and then of course we get involved in direct political change that is we do lawsuits we uh do amikas briefs we put things on the ballot we will weigh in on issues uh we'll hack off a lot of people because we're not beholding to any uh one industry or or uh one donor and for nearly 40 years Independence Institute has helped first shape the politics of Colorado and now trying to keep those politics and those policies alive if not for Independence we wouldn't have our charter schools in Colorado we were the first or second state in the Union to get Charters uh now 15% of all Co of uh uh school kids are in a charter school wouldn't happen without us the taxpayer Bill of Rights wouldn't become reality without us term limits would not happen without us privatization of services half of RTD is contracted out Concealed Carry Permits um takings issues we've been there to get these things done and now the left is having their turn uh promoting promoting collectivism and mandating it and that's why we need to change what we do we as a Freedom Movement and people in Colorado and retool if we're going to win this battle I I believe Colorado is worth saving Colorado can become that place I grew up in where you grow up and the culture teaches you about Liberty he teaches you about Freedom well that's great yeah very very inspirational really exciting I I wasn't aware that the independence Institute was so involved over the last nearly 40 years to on such important issues here in Colorado I mean it's definitely helped make Colorado the state it is today uh and I'm saying that in a good way of course you know the pro- freedom Pro Liberty type of policies that have been enacted and and and just building that culture of of independent-minded people so that is awesome the permanency is is important we own a building uh just blocks away from the capital we call it our freedom Embassy where freedom is safe there but really it's the first place that is a brick and mortar structured dedicated to limited government the reason we did this we took a map of the Denver metro area drew a circle walking distance around the capital and we started putting pins where the left has actual buildings actual offices places to meet and to do Coalition work and to talk to people of course the ca the Education Association was right across the street and then you have the seciu over here and the AFL CIO over there you've got progress now over there and environment Colorado here the School Board Association there the trial lawyers over here and we just put in pins all over and when we finished you looked at the map and it looked like the capital was a castle Under Siege um and I said well there's got to be some right leaning group that's permanent there the small business group The nfib did in fact have one office with two desks uh they don't even have that anymore and so it was a mission of hours to get a foothold to have something down there and it's no wonder why we send good politicians to the legislature and they turn left over time it's kind of like sending your kid to Berkeley these people are surrounded 247 by the takings Coalition who whines and dines and educates them and they think that's reality the kid at Berkeley or CU Boulder thinks that's reality so we need to build that infrastructure and our freedom Embassy is Omaha Beach in that effort I love it what great analogy there well John I know you're also well known for throwing great parties and you have one coming up uh tell us about this Politically Incorrect bash this started as a complete yuck you know was like uh they were they saw the growth of nanism they wanted to take away our cigarettes and they wanted to take away this and that and I was like well screw them let's let's have a party we'll call it our alcohol to Tobacco and Firearms party and we'll smoke and we'll drink and we'll shoot and uh they won't know how to handle it and so first started like 23 years ago now our first Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms party where we quite literally drink smoke and shoot sadly not in that order because lawyers lawyers um and we go to the kaiowa creek sporting club which is out on I70 it's this beautiful shotgun course and we do around a shotgun and then we all hunker down and smoke some great cigars listen to a speaker this year it's going to be Michael Brown from uh Kow and we we drink we drink like adults and we do this because we want to one celebrate the perks of adulthood while we still can and two we like bothering the nanni ests and they don't realize one year we had some reporters out trying to remember um and they were like oh my God there's guns everywhere here they're gun every everyone's got guns and we're like uhhuh and it was really it was really great Westward did a terrific story one year they had a guy come out and do a full feature and the headline was since when do conservatives have fun and I forget the writer he was a sports writer who wrote it up he said I remember going to college I did drugs I got laid we had had so much fun and now I'm an adult and a progressive and we're not allowed to do anything these guys are getting drunk and playing with guns and smoking cigars what what happened and it's also it's a our biggest fundraiser of the year and um it's just it's it's a nice little party and we know that people hate it which makes it more fun awesome that that does sound like a lot of fun when is it this year I believe it is September 14th he perfect checks notes uh and you can go to think freedom.org just think freedom.org check notes because I'm the kind of guy that would actually tell you the wrong date uh it's a 14th I was right perfect perfect yeah I've been there uh I think two years ago was the first time I went and it definitely was a lot of fun it's a great to be around other liberty-minded individuals you know share a drink smoke a cigar Kyla is absolutely beautiful such a gorgeous place to spend a Saturday afternoon make clear it's not kowa County it's just the name of the place called kowa Creek it's it's still a little bit out east um we also uh invite people to keep their score for their shotgun course and kill a lot of uh clay pigeons and the best and worst Shooters get recognized and that's uh we love the we like recognizing the worst because it's it's something the left would never do well John I really appreciate your time today it was a lot of fun talking to you I really appreciate your expertise and sharing so much your knowledge about Colorado politics and really providing a road map for people to to write the ship and to change course and and I hope that the donors out there heed your words and that we can we can make a difference here and restore some of this freedom to Colorado let me put out just a couple of asks which is uh on Twitter now X please follow me at John Caldera no H and John no Ian Caldera check out Independence Institute follow us on on um social media download and listen to Devil's Advocate the podcast or Freedom unaffiliated our our podcasts all dealing with Colorado issues it's really fun and light and energy gab which is uh our podcast video cast on iitv and you can get it on all the regular podcast stations but please it's easy to get involved or at the very least go to our website sign up for our newsletter so you know what's coming out you know the reports we're doing you know what activities are going on uh we we don't spam you but we just want to keep people involved and I think that's the best way for us to do it and I want to first thank you Brandon one for having me do this during a Bronco game um CU good God I did not want to watch that so that you you did me a solid uh but also so um freest State Colorado is just a great podcast it's a great thing you do and that you focus in on local issues as well as state issues there there is no more local coverage complete Colorado our news service does that and please go to complete colorado.com every day but there we can't be everywhere and that's why communicators and influencers like you are play a big big role in Saving Colorado don't move I I'll not move I'm gonna become a refugee and run to Texas now we no chance you know I tell people every day you get to stand and fight you're gonna have to fight somewhere no matter where you go you know they're doing the same thing in South Dakota they're trying to do the same thing in Texas even Florida no matter where you go you're gonna have to fight so fight where you're strongest fight where you can win fight here in Colorado also why is it that they the Communists always come to the most beautiful places you know they go go find some desert compound and start being a communist there instead of taking away our property rights here in the most beautiful state in the world anyway thank you for having me this is this has been a kick awesome appreciate it John thank you very much and and take care well